2.7 and 3.0 Td V6 Crankshaft Bearing Failure known manufacturing fault

[Reijni]

If anyone has had this issue regarding crankshaft bearing failure in there D3 D4 Range Rover or Range Rover Sport please contact me.
Land Rover Australia are not making this known fault easily rectifiable.
I am collecting names for possible recall notice.
I suggest anyone who owns these vehicles maintain an extended warranty.

Cheers Reijni
2010 D4 2.7 Td V6

[incisor]

Does this affect the 2.7 in the Ford Territory as well ?

[Lewy110]

Does this affect the 2.7 in the Ford Territory as well ?

Good question. I have had one since 2014.

[101RRS]

Is it a manufacturing fault or a maintenance issue - incorrect oil and lack oil changes - I don't know - I have always used the correct grade of oil and reduced change intervals from 12,000km to 10,000km as a precaution. Following this topic on the UK Disco/RRS sites the issue seems to mainly impact high mileage vehicles and those with a demonstrated history of poor maintenance, late changes etc. Again I dont know but that is what mechanics like Disco Mikey are saying.

If it was a design/manufacturing fault there would be systematic failures rather than the occasional few.

Garry

[KDJ02]

I have a late 2012 discovery 4 3.0lt tdv6 purchased in mid/late 2013. 95,000 in the clock
I had the disco booked in for a service on Monday but couldn’t make it. On Tuesday I was driving along & started hearing a tapping sound like a turbo fan or fan belt issue, I then heard what I thought was a fan belt break & lost power immediately & the battery light came on. I pulled over couldn’t start it & had RACQ tow it to a very reputable mechanic.
They have told me that the oil was very low & the engine seized. We are looking at $24,000 for a 2nd hand engine install.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
The boss is in tears.

[rar110]

That’s shocking. If it’s been reasonably serviced JLR should contribute to this repair. However, I don’t understand their prescribed 24 or 26k service intervals. My RRV tdv8 MY08 gets serviced every 10k, and has since new.

[incisor]

They have told me that the oil was very low & the engine seized.

any idea why the level was so low?

[Straddy]

My 2011 RRS spun a bearing last week.
This is a known fault covered by Service Bulletins SSM71816 and SSM72928.
Is an assembly issue and they modified the design in early 2012.
Am told you cannot rebuild these engines.
Mine had less than 100,000klms on the clock and had been fully serviced with the last swrvice having been done less than 4000klms ago.
Not down on oil and absolutely no warning given.
I will be interested to see what JRA have to say about it.

[trout1105]

The extended service intervals recommended by LR may be a contributing factor in the early demise of these engines.
Personally I think these extended service intervals are based more on Sales promotion than on actually providing a good service schedule to protect the car.
Anyone with half a brain would know what the consequences of running an engine, transmission or diffs on suspect or old oils is and Landrover is actively promoting this practice [bighmmm]

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Dont these things have a low oil light?

these guys are onto it,,
Discovery 3, 4, Range Rover Sport (http://www.aztech4x4.com.au/page_20.html)

[rar110]

My 2011 RRS spun a bearing last week.
This is a known fault covered by Service Bulletins SSM71816 and SSM72928.
Is an assembly issue and they modified the design in early 2012.
Am told you cannot rebuild these engines.
Mine had less than 100,000klms on the clock and had been fully serviced with the last swrvice having been done less than 4000klms ago.
Not down on oil and absolutely no warning given.
I will be interested to see what JRA have to say about it.

At least one other on here reported a failure on a 2015 or 16 D4.

[captainjsw]

Mine wrecked the engine doing just what the SSM says. Its a 2013 Discovery 4 and was covered by the SSM. Land Rover have been keeping this quiet and understating the occurrences. The engines are rubbish.
JLR were not interested in helping even though the SSM says contact them for the enhanced customer service process - Yeah right

[gromit]

Mine wrecked the engine doing just what the SSM says. Its a 2013 Discovery 4 and was covered by the SSM. Land Rover have been keeping this quiet and understating the occurrences. The engines are rubbish.
JLR were not interested in helping even though the SSM says contact them for the enhanced customer service process - Yeah right

So the engines are rubbish because yours failed ?
How many have failed ? What's the service history of your vehicle ? How long have you owned it ? How many Km ?

I heard about these problems a while back and was concerned because I run a Territory diesel.
Haven't seen any mention on the Ford forum (but I haven't visited for a while).

Great engine that seems to have had a problem with a certain batch and/or poor servicing causing problems. How Land Rover handle the engine failures is the issue.

TDV6 crank and crank bearing failures (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/209763-tdv6-crank-crank-bearing-failures-2.html)


Colin

[Eetab]

Land Rover will not assume that every crank/bearing failure is as per the TSB and as such will not replace any engines out of warranty. To get Land Rover to replace an engine would be a very long and costly exercise.

My MY15 3.0 Lt spun a bearing in March at 140,000 k's.

The Land Rover quote of $38,000 is not an option, nor is a second hand engine at $15,000 and $5,000 labor from an independent. A rebuilt engine with a billet crank is on it's way from the UK.

[101RRS]

A rebuilt engine with a billet crank is on it's way from the UK.

Not wanting to put a damper on this decision but do a search on DISCO3.CO.UK - Index (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/) on what the "experts" think of these aftermarket crankshafts.

[Eetab]

Not wanting to put a damper on this decision but do a search on DISCO3.CO.UK - Index (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/) on what the "experts" think of these aftermarket crankshafts.

What else can I do? I've only owned the car for 24,000 k's and and don't plan on selling it. As i mentioned a Brand new engine is not an option and I won't have a second hand engine. My reason being if I wrote my car off 1 hour before the bearing spun, a wrecker would have bought the wreck and sold the supposed "good" engine for $15,000 only for it to "blow" in an hour after fitting and wreckers will only warrant the engine not the labor.

I appreciate what you're saying but a billet crank is what I want.

[scarry]

Land Rover will not assume that every crank/bearing failure is as per the TSB and as such will not replace any engines out of warranty. get Land Rover to replace an engine would be a very long and costly exercise.

My MY15 3.0 Lt spun a bearing in March at 140,000 k's.

The Land Rover quote of $38,000 is not an option, nor is a second hand engine at $15,000 and $5,000 labor from an independent. A rebuilt engine with a billet crank is on it's way from the UK.

Thats not actually correct,a few on here have had their engines replaced out of warranty.

Most were one owners with full service history.

[Eetab]

Thats not actually correct,a few on here have had their engines replaced out of warranty.

Most were one owners with full service history.

Ah! Ok, I stand corrected, thank you.

The three that I know of are second owners, me included.

Sorry for misleading anyone.

Don't get me wrong, I still love my Disco and have no intention of selling it. I know that for every one that has problems there are far more that don't.

[DiscoJeffster]

Billet crank or not, I have seen very few successfully rebuilt LR engines. I wish you luck and keep us informed [emoji106]

[101RRS]

What else can I do? I've only owned the car for 24,000 k's and and don't plan on selling it. As i mentioned a Brand new engine is not an option and I won't have a second hand engine. My reason being if I wrote my car off 1 hour before the bearing spun, a wrecker would have bought the wreck and sold the supposed "good" engine for $15,000 only for it to "blow" in an hour after fitting and wreckers will only warrant the engine not the labor.

I appreciate what you're saying but a billet crank is what I want.

Yes understand - just ensuring you are aware of the issues involved which clearly you are.

You might want to follow these recent threads where the OP is in a similar position.
Oil usage for RRS 2011 TDV6 L320 (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l320-range-rover-sport/271946-oil-usage-rrs-2011-tdv6-l320.html)
REPLACING THE ENGINE - 3LT TDV6 (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l320-range-rover-sport/272073-replacing-engine-3lt-tdv6.html)

Garry

[Eetab]

Thanks Garry, the engine isn't due here till July. Once in and running I'll keep everyone posted as to how it's running.

[DiscoJeffster]

Assuming you’re not willing to share who and what you’ve purchased, may I PM? I’m interested for future planning purposes

[Discodicky]

Ah! Ok, I stand corrected, thank you.

The three that I know of are second owners, me included.

Sorry for misleading anyone.

Don't get me wrong, I still love my Disco and have no intention of selling it. I know that for every one that has problems there are far more that don't.

With much respect Eetab, i think you are not pressuring JLR sufficiently, given the problem is an "Internationally" known/experienced problem with several models in their product range, and that LR have themselves acknowledged in writing, an assembly problem entirely caused by themselves.
Suggest you try them with a lawyers letter which quotes all the SSM's, case history of failures and include your service history records. Show some degree of compromise by offering to pay labour costs, but they should come to the party with a new engine.

[Eetab]

Assuming you’re not willing to share who and what you’ve purchased, may I PM? I’m interested for future planning purposes

I didn't mean to be candid. I was looking at a rebuild option here in Melbourne, but I was never happy with using my old crankshaft and a bespoke one was around the $8,000-$9,000. Just before giving the ok for the rebuild I thought I would have a last ring around to see if anyone had any other options. Jason from Rova Range in Bentleigh suggested the engine from the UK. He said the re-builders do warranty work for Land Rover in the UK. Now!! before you "reply with quote" that I'm gullible, he's lying or that we've heard it all before........... I agree!! So I will be finding out more information as to who they are so I can check them out myself before actually getting the engine swapped. Apart from the choice in standard crank of billet, I really have no more information than that. If you like, as I get more info I can post it here.
Here's hoping you never have to future plan for this scenario.

Eddie

[101RRS]

Engine for sale in the UK with 62,000km

RRSPORT.CO.UK • View topic - [For Sale] SDV6 3.0L engine for sale (https://www.rrsport.co.uk/forum/topic54177.html)

Garry

[Eetab]

With much respect Eetab, i think you are not pressuring JLR sufficiently, given the problem is an "Internationally" known/experienced problem with several models in their product range, and that LR have themselves acknowledged in writing, an assembly problem entirely caused by themselves.
Suggest you try them with a lawyers letter which quotes all the SSM's, case history of failures and include your service history records. Show some degree of compromise by offering to pay labour costs, but they should come to the party with a new engine.

My engine blew in early March. I haven't mentioned it to anyone hoping that if JLR knew that I wouldn't "open the floodgates", they would be more likely to help me out. I have quoted T.S.B's sent in pics of broken cranks, quotes from all around the world about spun bearings and cranks and nothing. In all the communication both verbal and written they have never actually acknowledged previous crank damage to other 3.0 Lt engines and have only said that they look at each case on it's own merits.
I dealt with lawyers only once around 14 years ago. With their phone calls, photo copying, letters and probably a couple of their lunches, I ended up spending $1300 to NOT get a $2,000 debt. They start off all gung-ho and then ask,
"what do you want to do? they say they won't pay, your only choice is to go to court and you could end up still having to pay".
I decided nearly 4 months is enough. I want my car back and I'm tired of fighting with them, they win!
I'm not ecstatic with paying but happy with my decision to pay!! if that makes any sense! I need to move on start enjoying the car that I have wanted since I first saw D3 many years ago. I love my D4 and didn't realise how much until I didn't have it.

Also my service history is with independents and not JLR. I know that this shouldn't make any difference at all, but in the real world?

But thank you for your input and advice

Eddie

[Discodicky]

My engine blew in early March. I haven't mentioned it to anyone hoping that if JLR knew that I wouldn't "open the floodgates", they would be more likely to help me out. I have quoted T.S.B's sent in pics of broken cranks, quotes from all around the world about spun bearings and cranks and nothing. In all the communication both verbal and written they have never actually acknowledged previous crank damage to other 3.0 Lt engines and have only said that they look at each case on it's own merits.
I dealt with lawyers only once around 14 years ago. With their phone calls, photo copying, letters and probably a couple of their lunches, I ended up spending $1300 to NOT get a $2,000 debt. They start off all gung-ho and then ask,
"what do you want to do? they say they won't pay, your only choice is to go to court and you could end up still having to pay".
I decided nearly 4 months is enough. I want my car back and I'm tired of fighting with them, they win!
I'm not ecstatic with paying but happy with my decision to pay!! if that makes any sense! I need to move on start enjoying the car that I have wanted since I first saw D3 many years ago. I love my D4 and didn't realise how much until I didn't have it.

Also my service history is with independents and not JLR. I know that this shouldn't make any difference at all, but in the real world?

But thank you for your input and advice

Eddie

Yeah, I fully understand your reasoning Eddie and sympathise with you greatly. I wonder what the ACCC would have to say about all these failures? As we know, FORD and VW have recently been fined mega dollars due to misleading their customers, yet JLR appear to be getting away with what seems to be an open and shut case of a manufacturing fault or assembly problem as they acknowledge that fact in writing! How can they NOT offer any assistance to an owner!! On a personal note, I am now questioning whether I should keep my MY13 D4, knowing it is potentially going to cost me circa $25k if the engine goes. Only bought it in October last year at 102,000 klms and I love it, BUT..!! Yes, I hear what many say in as much as we only hear of the "bad" problems in these Forums, BUT..!! how many failures have we NOT heard about I wonder? I am from Tas and tow a 2.9T c/van and can visualise all sorts of hassles if I have an engine go somewhere on the mainland. Doesn't bear thinking about!

[Discodicky]

Yeah, I fully understand your reasoning Eddie and sympathise with you greatly. I wonder what the ACCC would have to say about all these failures? As we know, FORD and VW have recently been fined mega dollars due to misleading their customers, yet JLR appear to be getting away with what seems to be an open and shut case of a manufacturing fault or assembly problem as they acknowledge that fact in writing! How can they NOT offer any assistance to an owner!! On a personal note, I am now questioning whether I should keep my MY13 D4, knowing it is potentially going to cost me circa $25k if the engine goes. Only bought it in October last year at 102,000 klms and I love it, BUT..!! Yes, I hear what many say in as much as we only hear of the "bad" problems in these Forums, BUT..!! how many failures have we NOT heard about I wonder? I am from Tas and tow a 2.9T c/van and can visualise all sorts of hassles if I have an engine go somewhere on the mainland. Doesn't bear thinking about!

Apologies for harping on about this subject, fellow members, but i forgot to add another point. My understanding of Aus Consumer Law is that although a (in this case) vehicle may well be out of warranty as such, there still remains an "obligation" by the manufacturer to make good any failures it may have which can reasonably be shown to cause the significant shortening (for want of a better word) of a component's life.. A good example here is say, the domestic fridge in your kitchen. Now we all know and it would be a universally accepted fact that a fridge generally lasts at least 10 yrs assuming it has been "looked after". (not that there is much a person can do wrong to affect its life!). Now, if you purchase a fridge with say a 12 month warranty, and it fails due to no fault of yours after say 3 or 4 yrs, then you DO have a legal right under Aus Consumer Law to expect some sort of extended warranty/pro rata compensation from the supplier. Now if you 'extrapolate' this problem to the D3/4, RRS (and Jaguar?) V6 engine failures which are commonly known across the world and readily acknowledged by Land Rover then I would be very surprised if JLR can wash their hands of the problem without causing some raising of the eyelids by the ACCC! Assuming an owner gets his engine serviced according to the Manufacturer's recommendations and can prove so, it could be argued that an owner should expect at least 200,000 klms before an engine bearing requires replacing. And that's being conservative. Using other manufacturers engines as examples, it would be quite easy to prove that an LR V6 engine should also be expected to last as long (take the fridge for example!). As i keep saying, the fact that JLR has acknowledged in writing that such a problem exists and "say" they fixed it back in circa 2012 yet it still continues to happen according to what I've read here (MY2013/5/6 vehicles suffering), I would think, leaves them very vulnerable to answer serious questions from the ACCC. I really think JLR needs some serious pressure put on them, and if I keep my MY13 (which i most likely will as i love the car) and it suffers from this fate, I will be very prepared to spend a few thousand dollars in Lawyers/letters in the expectation to receive a new engine FOC from JLR. Labour costs to be borne by me as I am not an unreasonable person, however like anyone else; "expect justice". !! (sorry for rant!)
Who knows, JLR could well have the confidential internal policy of trying to wear out any request for help when a vehicle is out of warranty, but prepared to "wilt" if the going gets too tough via lawyers and ACCC! I know such events happen and have personal experience with these situations during my work life prior retirement! Will be very interested to hear response from any Lawyers who are members of this Forum. (or JLR for that matter as I'm certain they'd be reading this!)

[101RRS]

But you have to get a Court Order to enforce the consumer law or get the ACCC to do it for you - the first is expensive and stressful and in reality the second is not going to happen.

[gavinwibrow]

"Fit for Purpose" is the expression many of us use when canvassing potential out of warranty but justifiable claims for damaged goods.




Apologies for harping on about this subject, fellow members, but i forgot to add another point. My understanding of Aus Consumer Law is that although a (in this case) vehicle may well be out of warranty as such, there still remains an "obligation" by the manufacturer to make good any failures it may have which can reasonably be shown to cause the significant shortening (for want of a better word) of a component's life.. A good example here is say, the domestic fridge in your kitchen. Now we all know and it would be a universally accepted fact that a fridge generally lasts at least 10 yrs assuming it has been "looked after". (not that there is much a person can do wrong to affect its life!). Now, if you purchase a fridge with say a 12 month warranty, and it fails due to no fault of yours after say 3 or 4 yrs, then you DO have a legal right under Aus Consumer Law to expect some sort of extended warranty/pro rata compensation from the supplier. Now if you 'extrapolate' this problem to the D3/4, RRS (and Jaguar?) V6 engine failures which are commonly known across the world and readily acknowledged by Land Rover then I would be very surprised if JLR can wash their hands of the problem without causing some raising of the eyelids by the ACCC! Assuming an owner gets his engine serviced according to the Manufacturer's recommendations and can prove so, it could be argued that an owner should expect at least 200,000 klms before an engine bearing requires replacing. And that's being conservative. Using other manufacturers engines as examples, it would be quite easy to prove that an LR V6 engine should also be expected to last as long (take the fridge for example!). As i keep saying, the fact that JLR has acknowledged in writing that such a problem exists and "say" they fixed it back in circa 2012 yet it still continues to happen according to what I've read here (MY2013/5/6 vehicles suffering), I would think, leaves them very vulnerable to answer serious questions from the ACCC. I really think JLR needs some serious pressure put on them, and if I keep my MY13 (which i most likely will as i love the car) and it suffers from this fate, I will be very prepared to spend a few thousand dollars in Lawyers/letters in the expectation to receive a new engine FOC from JLR. Labour costs to be borne by me as I am not an unreasonable person, however like anyone else; "expect justice". !! (sorry for rant!)
Who knows, JLR could well have the confidential internal policy of trying to wear out any request for help when a vehicle is out of warranty, but prepared to "wilt" if the going gets too tough via lawyers and ACCC! I know such events happen and have personal experience with these situations during my work life prior retirement! Will be very interested to hear response from any Lawyers who are members of this Forum. (or JLR for that matter as I'm certain they'd be reading this!)

[Hugh Jars]

I would go further and expect JLR to meet labour cost. You are not 'partially' at fault if you have maintained the vehicle to manufacturer's specs, so why should you fund any of the cost? My suspicion is that's a try-on by the dealer, because the manufacturer (all brands) only give a specific labour time and rate to the dealer to get a given warranty job done. Seldom does the allowance give the dealer a break-even on labour.

So the dealer makes it up by attempting to charge you labour ("goodwill"). Don't fall for that one.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Approaching 200,000km on my D4 SDV6SE. Build Dec2010 from the Solihull factory. All good so far regarding crankshaft, full oil change every 10,000km since I’ve owned it using quality 5w30 oil. When under warranty it was always serviced by JLR.

Just wondering if anyone has ever removed the sump in situ and checked crank main bearing cap torque settings? I’m entertaining doing just that during my next oil change.

[DiscoJeffster]

Approaching 200,000km on my D4 SDV6SE. Build Dec2010 from the Solihull factory. All good so far regarding crankshaft, full oil change every 10,000km since I’ve owned it using quality 5w30 oil. When under warranty it was always serviced by JLR.

Just wondering if anyone has ever removed the sump in situ and checked crank main bearing cap torque settings? I’m entertaining doing just that during my next oil change.

Haha. Go and read disco3uk. Someone on there removed the lower and main sump and what a nightmare of a job. My advice would be to leave well enough alone.

[Eric SDV6SE]

I guess if it ain't broke....

[101RRS]

Look back at TerryO's posts from a few years back when he had some issues with his 2.7 D3. For a reason I cannot recall, the sump was dropped to check something and some of the bearing cap bolts were found to be loose.

Garry

[Eric SDV6SE]

Thanks, that's the one that got me thinking.

[101RRS]

Interestingly the bottom end was not the issue they were working on and there were no symptoms - the issue was either a injector or a glowplug job that had gone wrong and for some reason they decided to drop the sump and found loose cap bolts by accident.

Garry

[Eric SDV6SE]

Talking to a mechanic friend yesterday, some series bmw suffers similar problems regarding crank bearing and big end conrod cap bolts (both petrol and diesel engines), also leading to crank failure. Access permitting he advised to check cap bolt torque..

[101RRS]

China is now doing a major recall of JLR vehicles because of bearing/crankshaft issues - this follows South Korea a while back.

Jaguar Land Rover to recall vehicles over engine hazard (https://www.globalbusinessoutlook.com/jaguar-land-rover-to-recall-vehicles-over-engine-hazard/)

[DiscoJeffster]

China is now doing a major recall of JLR vehicles because of bearing/crankshaft issues - this follows South Korea a while back.

Jaguar Land Rover to recall vehicles over engine hazard (https://www.globalbusinessoutlook.com/jaguar-land-rover-to-recall-vehicles-over-engine-hazard/)

And yet Australia continues to deny a problem, just like the UK.

[PerthDisco]

China is now doing a major recall of JLR vehicles because of bearing/crankshaft issues - this follows South Korea a while back.

Jaguar Land Rover to recall vehicles over engine hazard (https://www.globalbusinessoutlook.com/jaguar-land-rover-to-recall-vehicles-over-engine-hazard/)

Wonder how they ‘check’? Just let us know so we can do same procedure independently here.

My suspicion is it will be to take car into workshop for duration of customer’s free coffee, adjust tools in drawer - and then return car to forecourt with double thumbs up - nothing to see hear - keep driving.

[Discodicky]

Wonder how they ‘check’? Just let us know so we can do same procedure independently here.

My suspicion is it will be to take car into workshop for duration of customer’s free coffee, adjust tools in drawer - and then return car to forecourt with double thumbs up - nothing to see hear - keep driving.

How does the saying go? "oh ye of little faith"
(ha, ha, ha.)
Might have to agree with you though!

[Graeme]

Not saying that the indicator is low oil pressure but it wouldn't take long to connect a gauge, possibly in place of the pressure switch.

[kelvo]

This is what they do, taken from here DISCO4.COM - View topic - Korean AJD-V6 Crankshaft Recall (https://www.disco4.com/forum/korean-ajdv6-crankshaft-recall-175788-90.html)

[kelvo]

My crude translation of the ‘report’

[DiscoJeffster]

Does sound like an oil pressure test sequence to me given the “rev, idle, repeat” statement. Presumably they are looking at the pressures to spot loose caps or worn bearings that would lower both max pressure and idle pressures (but not so much as to trip the low oil pressure indicator). (Complete guess obviously)

[LRD414]

How does loose or worn bearings reduce oil pressure?

Regards,
Scott

[Graeme]

The oil escapes faster than it should thereby preventing the maintenance of a higher pressure.

[BradC]

The oil escapes faster than it should thereby preventing the maintenance of a higher pressure.

I guess that test would be absolutely reliant on having the manufacturers specified oil and viscosity in there.

[Graeme]

Yes, the correct spec, clean oil although such a test is unlikely to reveal cap bolts not properly tight.

[DiscoJeffster]

I guess that test would be absolutely reliant on having the manufacturers specified oil and viscosity in there.

Very true. And so if I’m wrong, pray tell how a computer could deduce the issue? Maybe part of the process is an oil change to a known viscosity?

[DiscoJeffster]

How does loose or worn bearings reduce oil pressure?

Regards,
Scott

The first sign of failed big end bearings is the oil light coming on. As mentioned, when the clearance is exceeded even slightly, the oil leaks out past the bearings at a rate of knots and the oil pump can’t keep up, hence pressure drops.
If they know precisely the oil pressures to expect at each RPM, they could run analysis across the engine and spot an issue. This would then lead to secondary level physical investigation.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Are the failures on big end bearings (I.e. connecting rod to crank) or crank main bearings?

From the post I've seen, the issue appears to be the crank main bearings, I.e. those that hold the crankshaft in place in the block.

[DiscoJeffster]

Are the failures on big end bearings (I.e. connecting rod to crank) or crank main bearings?

From the post I've seen, the issue appears to be the crank main bearings, I.e. those that hold the crankshaft in place in the block.

To be honest I’m not sure it matters given the end result is the same. You say potaaato I say potayto [emoji2]
Either way the end result is a cactus.

I think it’s mains.

[BradC]

Are the failures on big end bearings (I.e. connecting rod to crank) or crank main bearings?

From the post I've seen, the issue appears to be the crank main bearings, I.e. those that hold the crankshaft in place in the block.

I've seen the same, but if I'm not mistaken the big end lubrication comes from the gallery openings in the main bearings, so once you've spun a main you'll starve the big ends. Haven't seen any images of a leg out of bed, but I'm pretty sure I saw a couple of images of bent rods. Can't find them now however.

[PerthDisco]

The failure mode to me is instantaneous due to bearing shells rotating to block the oil gallery. It’s not a wear and tear issues to my mind like a flogged out rattling bottom end.

[DiscoJeffster]

The failure mode to me is instantaneous due to bearing shells rotating to block the oil gallery. It’s not a wear and tear issues to my mind like a flogged out rattling bottom end.

But a bearing spins because it catches the rotating part. A bearing will not spin without a force pulling it. If you’ve ever installed a bearing into a shell, there is a decent force that keeps them in situ, exactly where you place them. They’re designed with a tension so they fit tight as. If a bearing turns and blocks a gallery, you can be sure the journal was not happy and the journal bound to the bearing to make it turn. The lead up to this was a problem - I find it far fetched a bearing moves itself then causes the blockage.

[BradC]

But a bearing spins because it catches the rotating part. A bearing will not spin without a force pulling it.

True, but if a bearing cap was loose that could happen pretty damn quick.

[PerthDisco]

True, but if a bearing cap was loose that could happen pretty damn quick.

When you see in those car production tv shows they have machines that lift and fit things like the pre-assembled head and bottom end units whereby the entire unit with bolts goes on and is instantaneously and automatically torqued up.

It does not rely on old mate remembering to do bolts up in 1-3-7-2......... sequence.

You would think a random check with a torque wrench would be made from time to time. So one of these machines randomly faulting would seed dodgy units amongst the good ones.

But this occurring continuously over 10 years and different engine types seems crazy.

[Graeme]

I wonder if the spun bearings have been deprived of oil at high speed then overheated because pressure has been lost elsewhere, that is the spun bearing being a fatal consequence rather than the underlying cause. If so then regular monitoring of oil pressure might provide some early warning which if investigated early enough could prevent the catastrophic result.

[Eric SDV6SE]

The fitting centres I saw during my visit to the Solihull factory last March are pretty much exactly like in those mega factory shows. I saw the final Assembly line where items like suspension and complete engines are fitted to the chassis. The one line assembled D5, jaguar f-pace and range rover, including the SVR. All the bolts for the suspension linkages would be tightened (torqued or tensioned, depends on the application) in one machine operation whilst held in a jig. All torques are computer controlled, and random checks are taken. A green or red light on the console would tell the operator that the torque is good or not, before he presses the button to release the assembly from the jig.

I don't think it would take much of a computer programming error to have the incorrect torque value provided to the tool, or a tool being out of calibration to cause an error.

I tend to think now that the issue re these crank failures is either an assembly issue, so incorrect torque settings, or a design issue (oil port location or incorrect clearances or the missing locating tab on the bearing shell for example)

A bearing shell failure would cause an instant oil pressure drop as the hydrodynamic oil film would instantly fail, leading to metal to metal contact and a fused bearing as a result. The force of the other pistons would cause the crank to then fail at the weakest point, typically where the big end meets the side plates.

So monitoring oil pressure at the crank would be a good starting point. Just not sure if you could isolate the oil feed into the crank galleries?

Just my 2c

[BradC]

But this occurring continuously over 10 years and different engine types seems crazy.

I agree completely, but there has been more than one post on the Disco3/4 forums in the UK along the lines of "I pulled the sump and some of the main bearing cap bolts were loose". Now, consequence of assembly, design or act of god. The result would wind up the same.

Something is causing these engines to apparently "randomly" lunch cranks, and nobody has been able to definitively figure it out.

I'm not pointing the finger at loose caps. I'm just sayin that a cap rattling around with a bearing shell on it ain't running the appropriate clearances for that bearing design. That would certainly lead to "less than optimal" oil pressure and/or the chance of the shell hitting the crank in an awkward position and that ball of twine could come unwound pretty quickly if that came to pass.

While I'm wildly speculating, it could also result in extra deflection of the crank leading to fatigue.

I don't know. All I know is the crank my car was born with went at < 120,000km and I'm hoping lightning doesn't strike twice.

[Discodicky]

But a bearing spins because it catches the rotating part. A bearing will not spin without a force pulling it. If you’ve ever installed a bearing into a shell, there is a decent force that keeps them in situ, exactly where you place them. They’re designed with a tension so they fit tight as. If a bearing turns and blocks a gallery, you can be sure the journal was not happy and the journal bound to the bearing to make it turn. The lead up to this was a problem - I find it far fetched a bearing moves itself then causes the blockage.

The "force" you correctly mention is the crush between the two shells.
It is the crush which basically relies on the shells not spinning and therefore blocking off the oil supply hole thus causing instant seizure.
Is the crush not adequate in the first place at time of assembly, or does it lessen for some reason?

the weird thing is that there doesn't seem to be any common denominators apart from a stuffed engine.
mileage seems to be very variable; no serial number range; everyone seems to be over-servicing every 10k which is roughly twice as often as LR suggest; correct oil appears to be being used; reports of engines continuing to suffer even AFTER the release of Service Bulletins (which is extraordinary in itself when you think about it) and on it goes.
Are the SDV6's doing it?
More LR engines than Jaguar?
The TDV8 doesn't seem to have the problem yet I assume the bearing assembly techniques/design etc would be similar.

All we know is that JLR is keeping its cards very close to its chest as to why they fail apart from saying it is an assembly problem. That being the case, why are they continuing to experience problems AFTER the release of TWO S/Bulletins over a couple of years?

Looking at photos of the shells, LR doesn't use the method of having "tab holes" in the caps and conrods which most definitely prevent the shells from turning even if the crush lessens. These have been used for decades in virtually any engine design. I guess they have saved a few cents of manufacturing costs to delete them.

[DiscoJeffster]

Tabs on shells do not prevent them from turning. They were only to simplify assembly to ensure the bearing aligned with the lubrication hole. With automation they’re not as important. They were never to stop a bearing spinning. As I said, a bearing only spins with a friction and the tab won’t stop that. If a bearing grabs a journal it’s fubar

[Dfer]

Land Rover will not assume that every crank/bearing failure is as per the TSB and as such will not replace any engines out of warranty. To get Land Rover to replace an engine would be a very long and costly exercise.

My MY15 3.0 Lt spun a bearing in March at 140,000 k's.

The Land Rover quote of $38,000 is not an option, nor is a second hand engine at $15,000 and $5,000 labor from an independent. A rebuilt engine with a billet crank is on it's way from the UK.

How did you go with the engine import? Feedback and costs appreciated.

[scarry]

Talking to my Indi last week,they have never seen a D4 2.7 destroy a crank,nor a Ford territory diesel.

As we know these engines were modified and are not the same as the D3 2.7,so someone obviously knows what is going on with them.

[Graeme]

What was the engine problem with the press release 2.7 Territory - a busted engine? I knew at the time but have since forgotten the details.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Apparently the location and material selection of the thrust washers on the crank is another issue. These are supposed to be sacrificial and maintain crank end float. Issue is the thrust washers are too hard, they wear the crank instead, end float increases and potentially game over. Also, thrust faces are normally located in the middle, between cylinders 3-4 on a v6 or 3-4 and 5-6 on a v8. On the 2.7 they are at the end of the crank for some reason. With an auro, there is normally no axial thrust on the crank, however with a manual there is. The failures dont seem to differentiate between auto or manual, but i don't have all the stats.

[INter674]

Ford must have sussed something weak about the crank as they have replaced it with a forged unit plus beefing up other crank components for the F truck.

Could be a truly great engine now...pity they road tested it on thousands of p'd off customers 😐

[DiscoJeffster]

Ford must have sussed something weak about the crank as they have replaced it with a forged unit plus beefing up other crank components for the F truck.

Could be a truly great engine now...pity they road tested it on thousands of p'd off customers [emoji52]

It’s so much more complicated than simply forged is stronger than cast. It depends on what the carbon content is of the alloy used to cast the crank, what iron alloy is used in the forging process etc. It probably is, but it’s possibly more a marketing exercise than anything.

[INter674]

It’s so much more complicated than simply forged is stronger than cast. It depends on what the carbon content is of the alloy used to cast the crank, what iron alloy is used in the forging process etc. It probably is, but it’s possibly more a marketing exercise than anything.

Agree...I am wary of anything they say. Eg..owner of a new F150 with the Lion engine was told the new forged crank is US made and not French which seems like a blame/excuse strategy to me.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Just re read this thread, maybe a silly question, but are the original fitment cranks cast and machined or forged and machined? Cant seem to find anything definitive online either. I would have assumed (probably incorrectly) that all cranks in these engines were forgings, not castings.

[loanrangie]

Cast, if forged they wouldn't snap but that won't help with spinning bearings.

[DiscoJeffster]

Cast, if forged they wouldn't snap but that won't help with spinning bearings.

Chicken or egg?
Is the crank fatigued and out of spec and this causes a slight deformation which causes the bearings to catch, spin and ultimately fail - or does the bearing catch, spin and that causes the failed crank.
And no, I don’t want an answer. This topic cracks me up. I’m so spun out by the endless debate. If I hear anything more about cranks I’m going to snap.

[Steve1975]

a lot of the trouble is wrong oil or it being not changed enough but they also can break thrust bearings lowering the oil pressure.i have reconditioned engine for 7000 au exchange

[DiscoJeffster]

a lot of the trouble is wrong oil or it being not changed enough but they also can break thrust bearings lowering the oil pressure.i have reconditioned engine for 7000 au exchange

Thrust bearing wear is real. I recently had my bottom end rebuilt after thrust bearing end play.

[Eetab]

How did you go with the engine import? Feedback and costs appreciated.

Sorry, been a while since I've been on line.
The 3.0 Ltr engine I got was from NWS Motor Services in the UK through Jason at Rova Range in Bentleigh. The original quote was $25,000 supply and fit. I opted for a billet crank, replaced coolant hoses (OEM), serpentine belt (OEM) and replaced that plastic coolant thingy with an aluminium unit. Also replaced a couple of valves for the air pump, replaced the battery. So there is well over $4,000 in "extras" The final invoice came to $30,460. It has done over 10,000 k's and seems ok. Been off road and spent a couple of days in Low range and it's doing everything it's supposed to!! Chewed through the oil at first, well, hardly chewed, it used approx 700ml at first but that seems to have settled.

I am happy with my decision to get the rebuilt engine. When I first started looking for a second hand engine I was quoted $17,000 for a 115,000k engine and a further $5,000 for fitting. That with having to replace timing belts either straight up or in another 50-60,000ks, and it was a no brainer for me at least, but obviously not for everyone.

Eddie.

[Eetab]

Just an update for anyone who is interested. The new (rebuilt) engine has another 10k on it and it's all very boring. Nothing to report except that oil consumption is now approx zero.
I still can't help but listen to every sound but can't hear anything out of the norm.
So far I am happy to recommend this engine. If anything untoward does happen I will surely post it here.

[matti4556]

If I hear anything more about cranks I’m going to snap.

Cranky Bugger! Not bearing up under the pressure huh?

[PerthDisco]

Doesn’t look too hard [emoji15]

In Pt2 he comments on the location of the oil filter a long way away from the oil pump and upside down so as not to retain oil.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/NaGg_qDd5L8)

[Mreren10]

I have a late 2012 discovery 4 3.0lt tdv6 purchased in mid/late 2013. 95,000 in the clock
I had the disco booked in for a service on Monday but couldn’t make it. On Tuesday I was driving along & started hearing a tapping sound like a turbo fan or fan belt issue, I then heard what I thought was a fan belt break & lost power immediately & the battery light came on. I pulled over couldn’t start it & had RACQ tow it to a very reputable mechanic.
They have told me that the oil was very low & the engine seized. We are looking at $24,000 for a 2nd hand engine install.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
The boss is in tears.

I had the same problem but I had still another 3000 kms left for service and I had just bought the car 5 months ago from a dealer just randomly while driving exactly same thing happened, contacted head office of LR but one guy in Sydney head office is Saying no to them replacing the engine so now need to buy a second hand engine for 15k and if I go from LR they want 38k

[scarry]

I had the same problem but I had still another 3000 kms left for service and I had just bought the car 5 months ago from a dealer just randomly while driving exactly same thing happened, contacted head office of LR but one guy in Sydney head office is Saying no to them replacing the engine so now need to buy a second hand engine for 15k and if I go from LR they want 38k

Sorry to hear your pain.

Once these vehicles get a bit of age on them,unfortunately,they will not be viable to repair.

[rick130]

Doesn’t look too hard [emoji15]

In Pt2 he comments on the location of the oil filter a long way away from the oil pump and upside down so as not to retain oil.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/NaGg_qDd5L8)IMO not a problem where the filter is in relation to the pump and a vertical filter isn't an issue if it has an anti-drain back valve.

FWIW full flow filters really only catch large bits of debris, although filler media is making strides these days.
Today really good synthetic media is rated at beta2=6, not that long ago standard media was around beta 2=28-30 (50% of 28-30 micron particles are caught in a multi pass SAE test)

[DiscoJeffster]

He makes a lot of statements not really founded in fact, but mere guesswork. Bearing tangs do not stop bearings from spinning if the bearing makes enough contact with the crankshaft. Tangs are only there to assist with assembly. I’ve seen enough spun bearings that had tangs.

Bearings retain oil at shutdown and that oil will do a reasonable job of protecting the bearings until oil pressure rises and load increases. I’m not sure how much additional wear is caused by the extended journey to the top and down again. I agree with Rick that if non return valves are employed it should be negligible, though there does seems to be a level of drain back, though not sure how much - but enough that you can at least change the filter without a mess.

[Discodicky]

I had the same problem but I had still another 3000 kms left for service and I had just bought the car 5 months ago from a dealer just randomly while driving exactly same thing happened, contacted head office of LR but one guy in Sydney head office is Saying no to them replacing the engine so now need to buy a second hand engine for 15k and if I go from LR they want 38k

I am sorry to hear that.
What year is your vehicle?
When did it happen?
If it is AFTER the date of the Service Bulletins SSM71816 and SSM72928 then LR don't have a leg to stand on.

Regardless, suggest you take a copy of the relevant TWO Service Bulletins and go see a lawyer who specialises in Class Actions.
There is enough anecdotal evidence and data around on the web from various countries (some of whom have done recalls by LR) to help you with this.
With respect, I would expect only one phone call to LR Sydney head office to have nil effect.
It'll take some serious letters from a lawyer to make them think about changing their attitude.

[INter674]

He makes a lot of statements not really founded in fact, but mere guesswork. Bearing tangs do not stop bearings from spinning if the bearing makes enough contact with the crankshaft. Tangs are only there to assist with assembly. I’ve seen enough spun bearings that had tangs.

Bearings retain oil at shutdown and that oil will do a reasonable job of protecting the bearings until oil pressure rises and load increases. I’m not sure how much additional wear is caused by the extended journey to the top and down again. I agree with Rick that if non return valves are employed it should be negligible, though there does seems to be a level of drain back, though not sure how much - but enough that you can at least change the filter without a mess.

Not disagreeing re tangs but every engine I've siezed has never spun the bearing..most recent a Perkins tractor engine where a stick holed the filter. It siezed with a thud...damage was bearing material on some journals..easily fixed..and all new bearings thereafter. Non of the shells had spun. Had the same on a Cat D4..again no shells spun.

Now what difference tangs might makes in terms of the level of destruction....I don't really know..but I'd rather have them than not😞

[PerthDisco]

He makes a lot of statements not really founded in fact, but mere guesswork. Bearing tangs do not stop bearings from spinning if the bearing makes enough contact with the crankshaft. Tangs are only there to assist with assembly. I’ve seen enough spun bearings that had tangs.

Bearings retain oil at shutdown and that oil will do a reasonable job of protecting the bearings until oil pressure rises and load increases. I’m not sure how much additional wear is caused by the extended journey to the top and down again. I agree with Rick that if non return valves are employed it should be negligible, though there does seems to be a level of drain back, though not sure how much - but enough that you can at least change the filter without a mess.

I definitely agree on the fact that it’s an oil rich environment down there and there must be enough retained oil film to get it through the 1-3 seconds until pressure is there.

[BradC]

there does seems to be a level of drain back, though not sure how much - but enough that you can at least change the filter without a mess.

As soon as you loosen the filter housing it admits air to displace the remaining oil which drains away. I sill have to leave it for 10s of seconds to be able to remove it without making a mess.

[rick130]

Just a note on how oil works in a plain bearing.
Pressure doesnt support the journal, the relative movement of the journal in the bearing promotes a hydrodynamic wedge of oil that supports the journal.
Think of a simple engine like a B&S, they use splash feed bearings. Yes, they use slingers on the big ends to throw oil, but they don't use an oil pump.

Oil under pressure fed into the bearing prevents the oil and bearing overheating by replacing the oil in the bearing with cooler oil from the sump, but it's the action of that hydrodynamic wedge of oil that supports the journal.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Just a note on how oil works in a plain bearing.
Pressure doesnt support the journal, the relative movement of the journal in the bearing promotes a hydrodynamic wedge of oil that supports the journal.
Think of a simple engine like a B&S, they use splash feed bearings. Yes, they use slingers on the big ends to throw oil, but they don't use an oil pump.

Oil under pressure fed into the bearing prevents the oil and bearing overheating by replacing the oil in the bearing with cooler oil from the sump, but it's the action of that hydrodynamic wedge of oil that supports the journal.
Agreed, i would expect the film thickness to perhaps 100-200 microns (0.1 to 0.2mm) at best (or worst if really badly worn, depends how you look at it) perhaps less. Therefore heavily contaminated oil with lots of carbon or soot in it (remember what diamonds are made of) will quickly cause metal to metal contact and disrupt any boundary layers and ultimately the hydrodynamic oil film. I think the bigger issue is perhaps the oil gallery design. I believe theres only one (need to confirm this), wheras with two, theres still a fighting chance of not destroying the bearing and crank completely. Tang or no tang, i believe he is correct regarding service intervals, and most on here agree that the LR factory interval is simply too long.

[Eetab]

Well, it's been over 12 months and well over 20k since the new engine went in. While I can't say that I'm glad it happened I am thrilled with the drivability of the new engine. It's power delivery, it's torque and acceleration are incomparable to the original engine. It makes me think that there was always something not quite right with the original engine. Even towing a camper trailer is much less effort. After a recent service the mechanic asked about the "tune". I told him it didn't have one, and if it did I would have got him to do it.
There has been much discussion over a forged crank over the original hollow crank and how a forged crank wont stop bearing failure. While exploring various avenues to replace the original motor the one thing that kept coming up was that hollow crank shafts flex or torque, wedging the big end bearing and dislodging it leading to it's failure. I do know that high performance rotary engines, as in race engines, can and do flex the eccentric shaft and cause catastrophic failure of number 2 rotor so it sounded logical to me that the same could happen on a high compression diesel engine. Be it true or not on the Land Rover 3.0ltr twin turbo I don't exactly know.
But to sum up, the new engine is a gem and I am really happy with my decision to put the rebuilt engine in.
Thanks all for your feedback.

[rapserv]

Does this affect the 2.7 in the Ford Territory as well ?

You would think so.

[scarry]

Does this affect the 2.7 in the Ford Territory as well ?

Ford Territory and D4 2.7;don’t seem to have the problem,but no where is it documented why.

Many have wild guesses,but there are no facts.

[rapserv]

So the engines are rubbish because yours failed ?
How many have failed ? What's the service history of your vehicle ? How long have you owned it ? How many Km ?

I heard about these problems a while back and was concerned because I run a Territory diesel.
Haven't seen any mention on the Ford forum (but I haven't visited for a while).

Great engine that seems to have had a problem with a certain batch and/or poor servicing causing problems. How Land Rover handle the engine failures is the issue.

TDV6 crank and crank bearing failures (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/209763-tdv6-crank-crank-bearing-failures-2.html)


Colin

The engine is a great engine .. as long as it's working!!
There have been many owners who have maintained the vehicle correctly and have still experienced this MAJOR problem.
The fact is ... whilst the motor is good with regard to performance .. it is POORLY designed in the use of materials.
Whether that be the crankshaft .. the bearings .. the turbo's or the cracking 'plastic' air intakes ... ALL of which are VERY EXPENSIVE to fix.
JLR should be held to account and made to cover, at the very least, the KNOWN and DOCUMENTED manufacturing faults.

[rapserv]

Sorry, been a while since I've been on line.
The 3.0 Ltr engine I got was from NWS Motor Services in the UK through Jason at Rova Range in Bentleigh. The original quote was $25,000 supply and fit. I opted for a billet crank, replaced coolant hoses (OEM), serpentine belt (OEM) and replaced that plastic coolant thingy with an aluminium unit. Also replaced a couple of valves for the air pump, replaced the battery. So there is well over $4,000 in "extras" The final invoice came to $30,460. It has done over 10,000 k's and seems ok. Been off road and spent a couple of days in Low range and it's doing everything it's supposed to!! Chewed through the oil at first, well, hardly chewed, it used approx 700ml at first but that seems to have settled.

I am happy with my decision to get the rebuilt engine. When I first started looking for a second hand engine I was quoted $17,000 for a 115,000k engine and a further $5,000 for fitting. That with having to replace timing belts either straight up or in another 50-60,000ks, and it was a no brainer for me at least, but obviously not for everyone.

Eddie.

Nice to have a 'spare' $30,000 just sitting around.

[scarry]

Nice to have a 'spare' $30,000 just sitting around.

In a few more years they won’t be worth fixing,unfortunately.

Unless one can do it themselves,or have the 2.7 which the Territory engine will fit.

[Eetab]

Nice to have a 'spare' $30,000 just sitting around.


Spare 30k?

Had to re mortgage the house thanks.

[gromit]

The engine is a great engine .. as long as it's working!!
There have been many owners who have maintained the vehicle correctly and have still experienced this MAJOR problem.
The fact is ... whilst the motor is good with regard to performance .. it is POORLY designed in the use of materials.
Whether that be the crankshaft .. the bearings .. the turbo's or the cracking 'plastic' air intakes ... ALL of which are VERY EXPENSIVE to fix.
JLR should be held to account and made to cover, at the very least, the KNOWN and DOCUMENTED manufacturing faults.

Doesn't seem to be a problem with the engine in the Territory.
I know there are some differences but why are all the major issues with the engines fitted to Disco's, were they before the Terri ?

We have one at 250K and another at 130K, not huge Kms I know, but the only engine issue has been with work carried out by the dealer which they rectified at their cost.


Colin

[BradC]

Doesn't seem to be a problem with the engine in the Territory.

I had a similar chat with the fuel injection guys when I went to buy my new HPFP. "So, you say you sell a few of these for Land Rovers. Do you see the same failures in the Territory?". "Nah mate, they're all soccer mom cars. They get rooted by being filled with and run on ULP long before they have a chance to get old enough for a mechanical failure".

He might have had his tongue in his cheek, but it didn't sound like it.

[gromit]

I had a similar chat with the fuel injection guys when I went to buy my new HPFP. "So, you say you sell a few of these for Land Rovers. Do you see the same failures in the Territory?". "Nah mate, they're all soccer mom cars. They get rooted by being filled with and run on ULP long before they have a chance to get old enough for a mechanical failure".

He might have had his tongue in his cheek, but it didn't sound like it.

Tongue in cheek I think.....

A lot are used for towing caravans round Australia (from when I used to frequent the Ford forum). I did see EGR problems talked about but personally the engine has been faultless and it's driven reasonably hard plus has towed overcapacity quite a few times.


Colin

[DazzaTD5]

Just to keep this thread going as I know how much some of you like to theorise over spilt milk [tonguewink]
Some of my kept bits whenever I do an engine change.

[Graeme]

Is that an incorrectly fitted 2.7 oil filter?

[shanegtr]

looks like there's been some heat into that

[Discodicky]

Any idea how many klms on the engine oil?
The oil filter tells a big story.

[matti4556]

Broken Freps?

[PhilipA]

iT seems that as the D3 gets older it may be happening more often.

In the latest LRO there is a buying guide for D3 in which they specifically note the incidence of engine failure even going to the extent of naming a source and price of remanufactured engines .

In UK the remanufactured engine is in the GBP 2000+ area plus dressing and fitting I guess.
Still probably almost the value of the car over there.

Regards PhilipA

[DazzaTD5]

Is that an incorrectly fitted 2.7 oil filter?

No it's an oil filter were the oil has got so hot it melted the plastic, the oil must surely have been boiling. Now that is an example of owner neglect.

[kelvo]

No it's an oil filter were the oil has got so hot it melted the plastic, the oil must surely have been boiling. Now that is an example of owner neglect.
Not related to owner neglect, have you seen the PM I sent you a few days ago regarding timing belts and oil pump replacement?

[PeterOZ]

Hopefully my old 2007 D3 keeps chugging along, I had a Territory 2.7 fitted after the original engine destroyed itself. I never did find out if it was the crank or it was a failed timing belt tensioner issue. I do wonder [bigwhistle]

It gets its service no less than 10,000km.

The transplanted engine was supposed to have 15,000km only on it but I'm dubious. This was about 5 or 6 years back. Was just trying to work out if timing belts etc are getting close to being due. The D3 has 271 thou and the engine went in at about 190.