D5 winch

[Bilby]

Hi all

I have ordered an SE TD6 for delivery mid December. It will not be a pavement princess. Am new to Land Rover so have a significant learning curve.

Anyone have any thoughts about fitting a front mount winch to a D5? I'm thinking it will be a lot more complicated than my old FJ40.

[trout1105]

As the D5 doesn't have a full chassis I am wondering how you would fit a winch bar or bullbar to so that the front end didn't collapse on impact?

[Stuart02]

Down the bottom of this article is a shot of a winch fitted to a factory journalist test-drive car, so LR at least have done and obviously condone it.
Bullbars? Well, if there's something solid enough under there for a winch mount...

* search "the-2017-land-rover-discovery-is-a-slick-family-hauler" cos the link doesn't paste at all well...

[Arapiles]

I don't understand the obsession with bullbars. My family are farmers and not one of our vehicles have ever had a bullbar, and I'm talking about every vehicle that's ever been on the farm. A couple of my brothers' work cars have had them, but they came already fitted. Friends of mine who have a station up near Broken Hill also don't use them. So why do I see so many 4WDs with bullbars driving around the city? If you do need a winch, they can be fitted without a bullbar - LR actually have them as an option, like the D5 prototype in the article.

[rick130]

I don't understand the obsession with bullbars. My family are farmers and not one of our vehicles have ever had a bullbar, and I'm talking about every vehicle that's ever been on the farm. A couple of my brothers' work cars have had them, but they came already fitted. Friends of mine who have a station up near Broken Hill also don't use them. So why do I see so many 4WDs with bullbars driving around the city? If you do need a winch, they can be fitted without a bullbar - LR actually have them as an option, like the D5 prototype in the article.
You're very lucky then.

I ran a family cattle property for a number of years and I lost count of the roo strikes with the Defender. It was in the scores.
The ex's GU Patrol copped it's fair share, the FIL's brand new Citroen was only days old and one jump from an embankment onto it.
The GQ farm ute bar was used to nudge the odd recalcitrant bull too. ;)

And please don't say "slow down", the majority of hits occurred with me traveling at 50km/h or less.

When you've lived and worked in Skippy central, you like the security a bull bar brings.

[rar110]

Years ago I was in a mates car that had a few light roo strikes while travelling at walking pace when we got caught in a roo herd crossing the road. The old XB ute took it pretty well.

[trout1105]

I don't understand the obsession with bullbars. My family are farmers and not one of our vehicles have ever had a bullbar, and I'm talking about every vehicle that's ever been on the farm. A couple of my brothers' work cars have had them, but they came already fitted. Friends of mine who have a station up near Broken Hill also don't use them. So why do I see so many 4WDs with bullbars driving around the city? If you do need a winch, they can be fitted without a bullbar - LR actually have them as an option, like the D5 prototype in the article.

If you have ever hit a cow or a decent roo without a bullbar then you will understand why many of us have these fitted[bigwhistle]

[rick130]

I forgot to add, now living and working in Canberra the number of roos seen hit here weekly in an urban environment is astonishing.
I usually see at least one a week dead on State Circle, this is the road that rings Parliament House, and I've seen traffic stopped a number of times there to allow a mob to cross the road.
There's at least a few a week hit on the Parkway, and you usually see the car that has collected them to as it's unable to be driven.

Hell, there was a video posted only a few months back as one hopped across the bridge over the lake on Commonwealth Ave!

[Edit] I'd rather not fit one, they weigh too much, hurt the on road dynamics and spill they looks of the Disco, but as I like to travel and get home without the help of a tilt tray I'll fit one, and a new one is being fitted in the next few weeks, the current one is a bit sad after a recent hit.
They are insurance.

[Tins]

I don't understand the obsession with bullbars. My family are farmers and not one of our vehicles have ever had a bullbar, and I'm talking about every vehicle that's ever been on the farm. A couple of my brothers' work cars have had them, but they came already fitted. Friends of mine who have a station up near Broken Hill also don't use them. So why do I see so many 4WDs with bullbars driving around the city? If you do need a winch, they can be fitted without a bullbar - LR actually have them as an option, like the D5 prototype in the article.

I live 40 k from the Melb CBD. Just last week I had a very near miss with a fallow deer about the size of a pony. Do you reckon the car would have survived that if I'd hit it at 80?

[Tins]

* search "the-2017-land-rover-discovery-is-a-slick-family-hauler" cos the link doesn't paste at all well...

Not wrong! I tried it as well.

[Bilby]

Here is picture from the article - thank you for the reference. Looks very clean.

127058

[Arapiles]

The GQ farm ute bar was used to nudge the odd recalcitrant bull too. ;)

We used the HR for that. [smilebigeye]

[Arapiles]

I live 40 k from the Melb CBD. Just last week I had a very near miss with a fallow deer about the size of a pony. Do you reckon the car would have survived that if I'd hit it at 80?

The counter-argument that I used to hear - from my father - was that if you mounted a bullbar on the chassis rails and then hit something big you'd bend the chassis and write-off the vehicle, even if there looked to be only cosmetic damage. Alternatively, don't have a bullbar and do possibly repairable damage to the bonnet and front guards ... anyway I won't be fitting one to my next car.

That said, I hear good things about the Smartbars (which appear to be the spiritual successors to the poly tube bars that people up my way use to swear by), but I don't think that they have a Discovery one.

[rick130]

The counter-argument that I used to hear - from my father - was that if you mounted a bullbar on the chassis rails and then hit something big you'd bend the chassis and write-off the vehicle, even if there looked to be only cosmetic damage. Alternatively, don't have a bullbar and do possibly repairable damage to the bonnet and front guards ... anyway I won't be fitting one to my next car.

This is actually an issue with modern vehicles and crumple zones.

The Disco is going in for remedial work in the next couple of weeks.
The smash repair bloke reckoned if it was a new Hilux/Ranger/D-Max/Colorado my minor bingle (OE bullbar, grille, plastic bumper and a slight bow in the bonnet where the crappy OE bar bent backwards into it) would be a major chassis rail straighten at a minimum and a very exxy fix.

[Stuart02]

I thought that was the point of the crush cans used to mount the bullbars on to the chassis? Or is that about stopping airbags going off?

I was interested to note that even though ARB make a winch bar for the Pajero, it doesn't come with the otherwise standard hi-lift jack points and recovery mounting points. They obviously decided the shock loading of recovery and lateral force of jacking would be too much, which is kind of scary.

As a city-dwelling bush tourist, I've long wished there was a removable bullbar option for pushing roos and scrub etc on excursions but isn't a PITA the other 90% of the time.

[rick130]

I thought that was the point of the crush cans used to mount the bullbars on to the chassis? Or is that about stopping airbags going off?



I think you'll find that to meet ANCAP, EUROCAP, etc the traditional ladder frame chassis has to be able to deform/be a crushable structure.

I'd guess crush cans alone aren't enough.

Re crush cans, I've always had the understanding that you don't snatch, hilift, etc off a bar with crush cans.

[PAT303]

I don't understand the obsession with bullbars. My family are farmers and not one of our vehicles have ever had a bullbar, and I'm talking about every vehicle that's ever been on the farm. A couple of my brothers' work cars have had them, but they came already fitted. Friends of mine who have a station up near Broken Hill also don't use them. So why do I see so many 4WDs with bullbars driving around the city? If you do need a winch, they can be fitted without a bullbar - LR actually have them as an option, like the D5 prototype in the article.

I'm the same,I've hit one thing,a Duck which broke the headlight on my L322 and I do more outback miles than most.I'd rather have a vehicle that stopped and turned to avoid an accident instead of trying to make it survive one. Pat

[PAT303]

I live 40 k from the Melb CBD. Just last week I had a very near miss with a fallow deer about the size of a pony. Do you reckon the car would have survived that if I'd hit it at 80?

Do you reckon your car would survive that situation because you have a bar?. Pat

[rick130]

I'm the same,I've hit one thing,a Duck which broke the headlight on my L322 and I do more outback miles than most.I'd rather have a vehicle that stopped and turned to avoid an accident instead of trying to make it survive one. Pat
Which is why I would've loved to fit a TJM alloy bar to the Disco, but they don't make them anymore. :(
The ECB ones look boxy and bloody terrible to my eyes.

I nearly went sans bar at all, spoils the lines of the Disco, but having had some hits that would've sidelined a car without a bar I went for the insurance option.

[Tins]

Do you reckon your car would survive that situation because you have a bar?. Pat

I didn't phrase that very well. The car is a D1. Survive was meant to mean for me in it. It has been clearly demonstrated, and I have posted the vid elsewhere, that a D1 offers very little occupant protection in the case of frontal impact. A well designed roo bar offers greater protection from large animal strikes than the car on its own. And, yes, I think the car would have more chance of being repairable, if not drivable, with the ARB bar with crush cans than without it.
My son, when he owned it, rammed an embankment. $150 for crush cans seemed a cheap repair for an impact that would have seen broken lamps, bent guards and very likely the rad back into the fan.
Whether the original question about the desirability of bars, or subsequent answers, relate to the thread itself is another matter.

[Tins]

I'm the same,I've hit one thing,a Duck which broke the headlight on my L322 and I do more outback miles than most.I'd rather have a vehicle that stopped and turned to avoid an accident instead of trying to make it survive one. Pat

I'd like to have both. Are you suggesting that fitting a bar precludes a vehicle from "stopping or turning"?

[PAT303]

I think you'll find that to meet ANCAP, EUROCAP, etc the traditional ladder frame chassis has to be able to deform/be a crushable structure.

I'd guess crush cans alone aren't enough.

Re crush cans, I've always had the understanding that you don't snatch, hilift, etc off a bar with crush cans.

Rick,the Defender chassis has fold points front and rear,the front folds down,the rear folds out,that's why the ends are ''weaker'' than the deeper center section. Pat

[Arapiles]

I didn't phrase that very well. The car is a D1. Survive was meant to mean for me in it. It has been clearly demonstrated, and I have posted the vid elsewhere, that a D1 offers very little occupant protection in the case of frontal impact. A well designed roo bar offers greater protection from large animal strikes than the car on its own. And, yes, I think the car would have more chance of being repairable, if not drivable, with the ARB bar with crush cans than without it.

There is a video, I think by Fifth Gear, showing what happens to either a d1 or a D2 in an accident ... it's not pretty. Defenders are actually worse, which is why I dropped the idea of having one as the family tourer. On the other hand, D3s and D4s are monocoque with crumple zones, so an entirely different kettle of fish.

Re the thread drift, apologies - the original issue was whether you can mount a winch on a D5, given that it's now entirely monocoque. The answer seems to be yes, you can, and you don't need a bullbar, Which would suit me fine.

[rick130]

Rick,the Defender chassis has fold points front and rear,the front folds down,the rear folds out,that's why the ends are ''weaker'' than the deeper center section. Pat

I wasn't aware of that Pat, but I'd hazard a guess the new chassis's compress/deform quite a bit more from what the smash repair blokes are saying.

I remember GQ/GU Patrols didn't do so well in offset frontal impacts, instead of deforming progressively they just fold.

[Tins]

There is a video, I think by Fifth Gear, showing what happens to either a d1 or a D2 in an accident ... it's not pretty. Defenders are actually worse, which is why I dropped the idea of having one as the family tourer. On the other hand, D3s and D4s are monocoque with crumple zones, so an entirely different kettle of fish.

Re the thread drift, apologies - the original issue was whether you can mount a winch on a D5, given that it's now entirely monocoque. The answer seems to be yes, you can, and you don't need a bullbar, Which would suit me fine.


https://youtu.be/mLLanPwRgio

[PAT303]

I'd like to have both. Are you suggesting that fitting a bar precludes a vehicle from "stopping or turning"?

Yep.Drive two vehicles the same,one standard,one with bling,the difference is huge. Pat

[PAT303]

I wasn't aware of that Pat, but I'd hazard a guess the new chassis's compress/deform quite a bit more from what the smash repair blokes are saying.

I remember GQ/GU Patrols didn't do so well in offset frontal impacts, instead of deforming progressively they just fold.

Rick,none of the old style vehicles does well,Patrol,Cruiser,Defender,they weren't designed with safety in mind,LR new it all too well,it's the reason they put restrictor plates under the carbies in stage one's. Pat

[PAT303]

There is a video, I think by Fifth Gear, showing what happens to either a d1 or a D2 in an accident ... it's not pretty. Defenders are actually worse, which is why I dropped the idea of having one as the family tourer. On the other hand, D3s and D4s are monocoque with crumple zones, so an entirely different kettle of fish.

Re the thread drift, apologies - the original issue was whether you can mount a winch on a D5, given that it's now entirely monocoque. The answer seems to be yes, you can, and you don't need a bullbar, Which would suit me fine.

Just to clarify this,in an accident involving a speed above 80 or so,or involving hitting an immovable object like a tree your not walking away regardless of crumple zone's,airbags,lucky charms hanging from the rear view mirror etc.Paramedic's have a saying about new vehicles,all they do is make the corpse easier to identify. Pat

[Tins]

Yep.Drive two vehicles the same,one standard,one with bling,the difference is huge. Pat

Can't agree, at least not about the D1. Drove it down to get the new cans with the bar removed, and apart from not being able to see the top of the bat you wouldn't have known. Newer, lighter cars may be different.

[trout1105]

I'm the same,I've hit one thing,a Duck which broke the headlight on my L322 and I do more outback miles than most.I'd rather have a vehicle that stopped and turned to avoid an accident instead of trying to make it survive one. Pat

I seriously doubt that you do more bush miles than most if the only encounter you have had is with a Duck and yet this duck still took out a headlight which on a Landrover isn't a cheap replacement.
Many of us travel where livestock and wildlife is a Real problem and a Bullbar is a necessity to prevent terminal damage to the front of the vehicle and that's why we have them fitted.
The cost of an animal strike to a landrover will Far outweigh the cost of getting a Bullbar fitted that will stop this sort of damage and even after a decent animal strike with a Bullbar fitted you can usually still get yourself home, Without it you are sitting on the road waiting for a flat top.

[PAT303]

I seriously doubt that you do more bush miles than most if the only encounter you have had is with a Duck and yet this duck still took out a headlight which on a Landrover isn't a cheap replacement.
Many of us travel where livestock and wildlife is a Real problem and a Bullbar is a necessity to prevent terminal damage to the front of the vehicle and that's why we have them fitted.
The cost of an animal strike to a landrover will Far outweigh the cost of getting a Bullbar fitted that will stop this sort of damage and even after a decent animal strike with a Bullbar fitted you can usually still get yourself home, Without it you are sitting on the road waiting for a flat top.

Except for when I did my apprenticeship in Sydney and now my degree in Perth I have lived/worked in rural/remote Oz my entire life[bigwhistle],and a genuine L322 headlight assembly is $240 plus postage. Pat

[trout1105]

Except for when I did my apprenticeship in Sydney and now my degree in Perth I have lived/worked in rural/remote Oz my entire life[bigwhistle],and a genuine L322 headlight assembly is $240 plus postage. Pat

I am in my sixties and have never lived in the city so I think that I may have some idea about the damage that a roo or a cow can do to a vehicle and have been unfortunate enough to know this first hand.
If a Duck can easily take out a headlight then you should be able to imagine the extent of the damage that a full grow roo or even a small heifer would do.
It is Not only the damage to the car that is of concern people have been killed due to animal strikes and "Poo Pooing" Bullbars as an unwarranted fitment is just Silly because they Can and Do prevent serious damage and injury.
Personally I am more than happy to have a extra chunk of steel between myself and any errant animal Even though they don't look fashionable, at least in the unhappy event of an animal strike I will be able to walk away with my limbs intact and will have a very real chance of the car still being operational.

[Tins]

I seriously doubt that you do more bush miles than most if the only encounter you have had is with a Duck and yet this duck still took out a headlight which on a Landrover isn't a cheap replacement.
Many of us travel where livestock and wildlife is a Real problem and a Bullbar is a necessity to prevent terminal damage to the front of the vehicle and that's why we have them fitted.
The cost of an animal strike to a landrover will Far outweigh the cost of getting a Bullbar fitted that will stop this sort of damage and even after a decent animal strike with a Bullbar fitted you can usually still get yourself home, Without it you are sitting on the road waiting for a flat top.

Funny. I drive about the same as anyone else who lives the sort of life that I do, and that is a LOT. Yet, I have far more souvenirs from the authorities than others, when my behaviour is no different. Comes down to dumb luck, or lack of it. I reckon the same applies here.

In the four years prior to twelve months ago, I drove maybe 450,000 km on the highways and byways. In that time I hit at least two dozen roos, maybe 5 pigs, two emus, a wild dog, birds, countless wombats, a sheep, and, one one occasion I won't forget in a hurry, a large cow. You farm folk would say it was a heifer or a steer or something. I don't care, it nearly had me in my 26 metre B-Double on our sides. I was fined once, in NSW, about 40 years ago, for "avoiding an animal", which was on the books at the time, the rationale being if you swerve for a dog you are putting people at risk. I was driving an MG, and I was avoiding two horses! I lost a 'mate' ( Army) who hit a cow on his motorcycle. Apart from a few of the wombats, and the sheep, I was lucky enough to hit these in a big truck. I won't bore you all with the number of things I hit in the forty years prior, and I wouldn't really remember anyway.


I've never hit a duck.

[trout1105]

I've never hit a duck.

Funnily enough neither have I, Nor for that matter have I run over a Crow and not for the want of trying either [bigwhistle]

[Tins]

Funnily enough neither have I, Nor for that matter have I run over a Crow and not for the want of trying either [bigwhistle]

Nor me. Got a magpie, which I thought were at least as smart as crows ( One of the animal handlers on Game of Thrones reckons crows, or ravens, are at least as trainable as dogs ). Got an owl with a mirror once.

[Tins]

I've never hit a duck.

I would add to that... Not even with a Mossberg. I was never a good shot at moving targets. [bigsad]

[Shoogs]

Hi all

I have ordered an SE TD6 for delivery mid December. It will not be a pavement princess. Am new to Land Rover so have a significant learning curve.

Anyone have any thoughts about fitting a front mount winch to a D5? I'm thinking it will be a lot more complicated than my old FJ40.

Ask a question about a winch for a D5 and in return you get 4 pages of dribble debating bullbars...

Hope you find a solution as I am interested, if factory can do it am sure it can be done.

[Tins]

Ask a question about a winch for a D5 and in return you get 4 pages of dribble debating bullbars...

Hope you find a solution as I am interested, if factory can do it am sure it can be done.

It's a free flowing forum. Get used to it. On the other hand, BMW forums may be far more ze way zat you'd prefer. Or, lighten up. We try to give helpful answers, but being a "community", things sidetrack. Much easier to try and have fun. You will still learn. In fact, you will learn more.

I hope there is a solution as well, but this is not LandRover.com. We know nothing about the D5. If you want perfect answers about that car, why ask here? When we know, so will you; that is what 'community' means.

Oh, the word is 'drivel', not 'dribble', if perfection is your goal. [smilebigeye][bigwhistle]

[trout1105]

Ask a question about a winch for a D5 and in return you get 4 pages of dribble debating bullbars...

Hope you find a solution as I am interested, if factory can do it am sure it can be done.

At least the posts that ventured off into the Bullbar area offered some opinions and answers, Unlike your unhelpful single negative post[bigwhistle]

[Shoogs]

Hook, line and sinker...

Having read how others have been replied to after asking a thread to stay on topic, it's interesting and amusing to see the response first hand.

Whilst I agree anyone can reply with anything, it should stick with the topic, it's why we have general chat etc... maybe I don't quite understand how striking a kangaroo, crow or not an owl has to do with a D5 winch... but hey sorry, my bad.

But then in writing this I am just realising I am adding to the misery of the gent who posted the question who now has to troll through more pointless replies about the post still yet unanswered...

[weeds]

I don't understand the obsession with bullbars. My family are farmers and not one of our vehicles have ever had a bullbar, and I'm talking about every vehicle that's ever been on the farm. A couple of my brothers' work cars have had them, but they came already fitted. Friends of mine who have a station up near Broken Hill also don't use them. So why do I see so many 4WDs with bullbars driving around the city? If you do need a winch, they can be fitted without a bullbar - LR actually have them as an option, like the D5 prototype in the article.

Kinda agree.....I haven't needed a front bar in 25 year of driving all over the place apart from holding antenna and driving lights and fishing rod holders.

Although every 4WD I have purchased 'except one' have had a front bar fitted

[PAT303]

Hook, line and sinker...

Having read how others have been replied to after asking a thread to stay on topic, it's interesting and amusing to see the response first hand.

Whilst I agree anyone can reply with anything, it should stick with the topic, it's why we have general chat etc... maybe I don't quite understand how striking a kangaroo, crow or not an owl has to do with a D5 winch... but hey sorry, my bad.

But then in writing this I am just realising I am adding to the misery of the gent who posted the question who now has to troll through more pointless replies about the post still yet unanswered...

Ok,you can fit a winch to a D5 because we have a photo of one fitted,we had a thread drift which is usual and can add much more to a thread than the original question but we have an answer,thread closed. Pat


PS
Those asking about the Duck,it was flying like a Mozzie over Berlin mid 1940's,on the deck balls out,I had no chance of avoiding the collision and eating it did enter my mind because I like Duck,it was even half plucked [biggrin]. Pat

[trout1105]

@Shoogs
The reference to bullbars in this thread is very relevant as in Aus 90% of the winches fitted to 4WD's are fitted onto or into the bullbar as they not only provide good frontal protection they are an ideal platform to fit a winch to.
They make the winch easy to access and maintain with the added benefit additional lighting which is also very usefull.
Fitting a simple winch cradle IS an option and I imagine that LR will be more than happy to supply one at a highly inflated price But is it the right option as far as future proofing the truck ?
This is what is being explored by discussing the pro's and con's of Bullbars here[thumbsupbig]