Falling asleep behind the wheel

[Roverlord off road spares]

Found this on Dash cam owners site, pretty scary that the car traveling toward you might have a driver asleep at the wheel. Suprised it drove for some distance before it crashed. Luckily the driver was not seriously injured. I would assume whilst it was still driving in a straight line the driver must of been in the sleepy mode in the process of falling asleep ie. noddoing off. Lucky for the driver there was a gap in the trees or it may have been fatal.

https://www.facebook.com/DashCamOwnersAustralia/videos/1517771561615812/

[V8Ian]

Subaru, the new Volvo.

[cuppabillytea]

Subaru, the new Volvo.

So it's not just my imagination.

[trout1105]

It may have been lucky for the driver of this that there was a gap in the trees But what if there was a car coming the other way?
This exact same scenario happened just over 2 years ago and it cost a good Mate of mine his life and ruined my left arm, All because some Tosser went to sleep at the wheel.
As far as I am concerned driving Tired is just as lethal as driving Drunk, both are driver choices and both are preventable.

[Roverlord off road spares]

It may have been lucky for the driver of this that there was a gap in the trees But what if there was a car coming the other way?
This exact same scenario happened just over 2 years ago and it cost a good Mate of mine his life and ruined my left arm, All because some Tosser went to sleep at the wheel.
As far as I am concerned driving Tired is just as lethal as driving Drunk, both are driver choices and both are preventable.

You just don't realise that everytime you go out on the road it might be your last, I particularly hate dual carriageways,

Check this near miss Vid .

https://www.facebook.com/bob.thomson.10/videos/vb.625767724/10152982142787725/'type=2&theater
I lost a close mate where the on coming driver was perminately asleep ( the other driver was dead behind the wheel from a heart attack )

[Tote]

I had a very similar experience one morning between Tomingley and Dubbo where I saw movement in the rear view mirror and a cloud of dust as the Patrol that was following me failed to take a corner and headed straight off the road coming to rest against a tree. Luckily the driver was not seriously hurt, he woke up as the vehicle went over the bank at the edge of the road and had no idea what had happened. The tyre tracks were in a dead straight line from where the previous straight section of road had been. This was about 10:00 in the morning and he had driven from Canberra without a break to do a job in Dubbo in his bosses vehicle.

Regards,
Tote

[JDNSW]

I haven't actually seen one like that, but many years ago, coming up the Newell south of Forbes, travelling at the speed limit, I was passed by a brand new Toyota Crown (shows how long ago it was!) travelling a lot faster. Just as he was disappearing into the mirage, he suddenly left the road. He was climbing up the bank as I stopped. Reckoned one back wheel had locked, and the skid mark supported that.

Not uncommon for me to see the after effects of "gone to sleep" on the way to town though. There is a tree just where I join the main road, just past a slight bend coming from Dubbo, where the publican of the Mendooran hotel and his passenger died a few years ago. Like most of these, this happened in the wee hours - easy to guess why it happened, albeit still a guess.

[1950landy]

Couple of weeks ago guy two houses up from me fell asleep at the wheel writing off his VW Turbo, running into the concrete barrier on the Centenary Hwy in the 100k zone [bigsad] , he was lucky he wasn't driving his Ford GT40 replica . He was lucky he only received a couple of scratches .[bigsmile1]

[cuppabillytea]

Couple of weeks ago guy two houses up from me fell asleep at the wheel writing off his VW Turbo, running into the concrete barrier on the Centenary Hwy in the 100k zone [bigsad] , he was lucky he wasn't driving his Ford GT40 replica . He was lucky he only received a couple of scratches .[bigsmile1]
I'd have no chance of falling asleep in one of these. I couldn't get comfortable enough. Not by a long shot. And this one was made to be comfortable.

[ATH]

I must admit to running off the road early one morning myself but luckily there was no bad result from it. I had been in Broome and had replaced the clutch on a truck I was travelling behind on it's way to a drilling job out of Kununurra.
We'd stayed in the Mangrove for 4 nights and got to know staff there and one asked me for a lift next morning as she knew we were leaving. No problem there and we set off about 0700hrs driving into the sun and about halfway to Derby I just ran off the road to the right through a small ditch and stopped.
And a car going the other way pulled over to see if we were alright.
Neither of us was hurt but well and truly shaken up. I hadn't felt tired and hadn't over imbibed the night before and have no idea why it happened but the way we stopped ever so gently showed my foot must have come off the throttle before we wandered over the road and off. Passenger had nodded off as well.
All I could think of was exhaust gases (series 3 Landie) had entered the cab and sent us both off. I can't remember if it was petrol or a diesel vehicle.
The rest of the trip was done with the window right down.
AlanH.

[Roverlord off road spares]

I wonder if the statistics for running off the road were less in the old days when cars had bench seats, no radios and ordinary heaters , when you couldn't get comfortable enough to fall asleep?

[donh54]

Back in the bad old days, you'd wake up when the engine started labouring as your foot came off the throttle. How many trucks hit the trees still at full noise with the cruise control still on?

[Eevo]

I wonder if the statistics for running off the road were less in the old days when cars had bench seats, no radios and ordinary heaters , when you couldn't get comfortable enough to fall asleep?

but all of those uncomfortable things tire you out quicker

[trog]

Wasn't there a fatality a few years back attributed to the driver being forced into an extra shift before driving home ? I know years back when strong armed into doubles , often afternoons to nights I would struggle to stay awake on parramatta road. Funny though it was not permissible to sleep in the car before leaving or to be late for the next shift. I'm sure this happens too much .

[V8Ian]

Comfort or the lack of has no relationship to sleeping while driving. A microsleep might only last a second or two but that's long enough to lose control of a vehicle. Many causes can bring on a microsleep, some of the more common being lack of sleep, boredom, alcohol, general fatigue, illness and drugs, either illicit or prescription.
Heavy vehicle operators are strictly monitored and restricted in their hours of work, yet the very people who enforce a $1000+ fine for a 15 minute breach can legally work a 12 hour shift, then hop into their car and caravan with every intention of driving a thousand kilometres.

[carjunkieanon]

The dad of a friend of mine used to regularly drive Moree to Sydney (I think a couple of times per week). My mates story was that his dad would close his eyes and drift right until he heard the rumble strip, then drift left until the rumble strip...and continue....


I had a micro sleep 5mins from home late one night with all 5 kids and wife in the car. Woke up just as I was drifting into the oncoming lane and an oncoming car flashed past me. Totally freaked me out. I've taken the possibility of falling asleep at the wheel far more seriously since then.

[Wraithe]

I wonder if the statistics for running off the road were less in the old days when cars had bench seats, no radios and ordinary heaters , when you couldn't get comfortable enough to fall asleep?

As Ian said, comfort has no relationship...

I drove Macks/ Volvo's/ Scania's/ Whites/Cabover Kenworths upto 1993... Never drove a W model, regarded it as a cowboy's truck....

Drove my first W model, went and got one real soon after that... Out of all the trucks I had driven, that was the first and possibly only truck that I could still walk after driving all day....
Our bitumen roads are rougher than the gravel roads, and the old W model was the same on both...
The volvo and Scania was ok, but that W was ideal, seating position must have been just perfect for me...Mind you, like the Macks, you felt every bump... But that truck never tired you out like everything else I drove or owned...


WA laws, pre 2000.. 15 hours maximum driving in one day... No log books thus law un enforcable...
We did have our accidents but it was not like the east where the log books where and enforcement was rampant...

[ramblingboy42]

Wasn't there a fatality a few years back attributed to the driver being forced into an extra shift before driving home ? I know years back when strong armed into doubles , often afternoons to nights I would struggle to stay awake on parramatta road. Funny though it was not permissible to sleep in the car before leaving or to be late for the next shift. I'm sure this happens too much .

yes there was Trog. there was more than one on the Peak Downs highway heading back to Mackay from the coalfields as far west and south as the Moranbah , Middlemount and Clermont areas.

workers leaving for their break now must have a forced rest before leaving for home...... or they may not have a job to return to.

Den

[Stuck]

I've taken a power nap in a boat. Fished all night and thought I'd double dip and troll home. I don't think it took much with the combination of the morning sun, the roll of the swell and being tired from the start but luckily I was awoken by a reel going off when I was about 30m from the rocks. I went back through the track on the GPS and from where it started to curve I reckon I'd been snoozing for about 2-3 minutes and was about 30 seconds from going crunch.

[Roverlord off road spares]

Heavy vehicle operators are strictly monitored and restricted in their hours of work.

I often wonder about those truck drivers in the sky. When I flew to Japan that was 9 hours non stop, I know the pilots use autopilot for most of the trip, but they still need to be aware of whats going on, 9 hours is a long time to be sitting in a seat, do they take naps in shifts or stay awake the whole time? and since we flew from midnight until the next morning it's the time the body clock says you should be sleping, then to land a plane in the early morning sunrise. Since they take over the controls when landing they would have to be alert.

[ozscott]

Mario they have 2 crews. The first gets the plane airborne and so has a feel of take of characteristics and gets to altitude and shortly after goes off and sleeps. Second crew flies the plane and later first crew (refreshed) takes over and finishes leg and lands plane.

Cheers

[cripesamighty]

There was a recent voluntary survey of aircrew about fatigue. Turns out over 50% of the aircrew who responded had fallen asleep in the cockpit. Over 20% had woken up to find the other pilot asleep too. Fatigue is an insidious thing and many of the airlines are paying lip service to it in the name of profit. Most airline crew rest periods don't include travel time to and from the airport or even include pre-flight checks. At the end of a monthly cycle, many pilots are flying so tired they may as well be drunk. There have been several aviation enquiries highlighting how dangerous it is, but airlines have been dragging their feet and doing the least amount possible to keep profits high. This was a great article....

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/blog/seat2B/2014/02/commuter-airlines-face-pilot-shortage.html?page=all

And this was an interesting thread!
Things Your Pilot Isn't Telling You. (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/flight/210873-things-your-pilot-isnt-telling-you.html)

[Roverlord off road spares]

There was a recent voluntary survey of aircrew about fatigue. Turns out over 50% of the aircrew who responded had fallen asleep in the cockpit. Over 20% had woken up to find the other pilot asleep too. Fatigue is an insidious thing and many of the airlines are paying lip service to it in the name of profit. Most airline crew rest periods don't include travel time to and from the airport or even include pre-flight checks. At the end of a monthly cycle, many pilots are flying so tired they may as well be drunk. There have been several aviation enquiries highlighting how dangerous it is, but airlines have been dragging their feet and doing the least amount possible to keep profits high. This was a great article....

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/blog/seat2B/2014/02/commuter-airlines-face-pilot-shortage.html?page=all

And this was an interesting thread!
Things Your Pilot Isn't Telling You. (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/flight/210873-things-your-pilot-isnt-telling-you.html)
You had to come up with this I am a nervous flyer at the best of times.[bawl]

[Eevo]

You had to come up with this I am a nervous flyer at the best of times.[bawl]


flying is very safe.
we've never lost anyone up there.... what goes up must come down.
except that MH370 flight.

[JDNSW]

Unfortunately, talking about keeping profits high is to gloss over the fact that most of the world's airlines actually operate at a loss, relying on either subsidies or creative accounting to survive. From time to time a few airlines manage to actually make a real profit, but this is usually only for a short period, and hardly compensates shareholders for the years of losses.

Of course, this does not excuse dangerous practices, such as the fatigue issue noted, but any discussion on how to deal with this is devalued by the assumprion that airlines are highly profitable businesses. They are not, and most of the time most airlines are in survival mode, which is not a good start to safety improvements!

And no, I don't have answers, but saying that the airtlines are highly profitable is not an answer either. (And I don't have any airline shares - I have more sense!)

[cripesamighty]

You are definitely right John. They used to be more profitable, before de-regulation that is, but that's another story. See below for an overview. The guy pushing the hardest for de-regulating the aviation industry his way, (economist Alfred Kahn) came out more than 30 years later and privately apologised to his biggest detractors and admitted they had been right. Initially he knew nothing about aviation, and assumed it worked like any other industry before eventually seeing his implementation did more harm than good. Too little, too late buddy...

Airline Deregulation: A Triumph of Ideology Over Evidence | HuffPost (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-morris/airline-deregulation-ideology-over-evidence_b_4399150.html)

An article written 15 or so years after de-regulation showing major problems already
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a276761.pdf

[trog]

So you can be "done" for drink and drug driving , what is the measure for fatigue ? There should be something more than an ambivalent stop every two hours, and where do employer schedules or private contractors fit in to achieve the outcomes but protect the drivers and public?

[JDNSW]

You are definitely right John. They used to be more profitable, before de-regulation that is, but that's another story. ....

The regulation that was deregulated was simply another way of arranging a subsidy, and deregulation only applied to domestic airlines anyway, although the international scene has become less regulated and subsidised than it used to be. International air travel is still dominated by national carriers that are government owned, explicitly subsidised or have restricted competition.

[cripesamighty]

If you change one thing, something else has to give. Those subsidies had unfortunate consequences which were not anticipated (at least not by those who were pushing for it). Look at the QANTAS board for instance who are out of touch for the most part. They and the poison dwarf in charge have done serious damage to the brand (both Jetstar and QANTAS) by some quite stupid decisions (both locally and on international routes), especially since de-regulation. The industry certainly needs a shake-up, but I don't think it will be getting it anytime soon.

[donh54]

Gee! There I was thinking that the Road Transport industries fatigue management stuff was "pie in the sky" BS!