Illogical American expressions?

[vnx205]

I understand that language changes over time. I generally don't like it since it almost always involves a loss of precision or subtlety, but I realise that it is inevitable.

However, I have great difficulty understanding why Australians are so ready to adopt American expressions that simply don't make sense.

I generally accept that once I hear a phrase on the ABC, trying to pretend that it isn't a part of our language has become a lost cause.

Tonight I heard on the ABC news that someone was complaining that the government was offering five time less than their property was worth.

That expression is quite nonsensical. Lets assume the property is worth $1 million dollars. Five times $1 million is $5 million. So is the government offering $5 million less than $1 million? Are they asking the owner to pay them $4 million to take his property from him?

I hear that an item is two time cheaper if it comes from China. If it costs $10 and two times $10 is $20, does that mean the price is $20 less than $10? In other words you will be paid $10 the take the item.

You might argue that even though the expression is illogical, you know what is meant, but there is a perfectly good, logical, simpler expression that we used to use to convey the same meaning. We used to say that the government was offering one fifth of what the owner thought the property was worth. We used to say that the item made in China was half the price.

My grand child is not ten times younger than I am (as Americans would say). She is one tenth my age or I am ten times older than her.

Americans seem fond of illogical expressions. Australians indicate their lack of concern by saying, " I couldn't care less." Americans express the same attitude by saying, "I could care less." Once again, that is quit illogical.

If the language has to change, wouldn't it be better if it changed so that it still made sense?

[Tins]

I, for one, have to agree, but good luck getting the general populace to understand your issues.

[Mick_Marsh]

I understand.

My pet annoyance (one of the many, really) is they call autumn fall but don't call spring sprout.
And insist on referring to aluminium as aluminum.
And .............

[Tins]

And insist on referring to aluminium as aluminum.


They even spell it that way, but seem to have no issue with uranium, or even unobtanium.

[Eevo]

However, I have great difficulty understanding why Australians are so ready to adopt American expressions that simply don't make sense.




cause we have so many american tv shows.

[V8Ian]

I don't know the origin but, 'plate up' gets fair up my nose. :bat:

[Eevo]

I don't know the origin but, 'plate up' gets fair up my nose. :bat:


what does that mean?

[V8Ian]

Serve.

[Mick_Marsh]

Actually, I think the term "plate up" (meaning putting food on a plate) was an Englander expression.

[V8Ian]

Every night before going to bed, I extinguish the cat.

[p38arover]

And insist on referring to aluminium as aluminum.

It might be argued that the US term is correct in that was the original name but Sir Humphry Davy, who discovered it, later added the "i".


Sir Humphry made a bit of a mess of naming this new element, at first spelling it alumium (this was in 1807) then changing it to aluminum, and finally settling on aluminium in 1812. His classically educated scientific colleagues preferred aluminium right from the start, because it had more of a classical ring, and chimed harmoniously with many other elements whose names ended in –ium, like potassium, sodium, and magnesium, all of which had been named by Davy.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/aluminium.htm

[Hogarthde]

Perhaps plate up comes from "step up to the plate", a baseball term ,used ad nauseum by many commentators, whom will also describe a football team with two out as "decimated".
"You're welcome" an irritant to me , "have a nice day " makes me not think nice thoughts.

Anyway Ian , how the flaming 'ell are you?

dave

[jspyle]

i am dumbfounded by"double down"!

[Fifth Columnist]

A 'billion' used to be 1,000,000,000,000 'til the yanks devalued it. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/963.jpg

[POD]

The 'I could care less' thing is nonsensical. If I hear someone say it is 'a quarter of five', I have absolutely no idea what time it is (perhaps 1.25?). I find it appalling that the graduates at work refer to the toilet as the 'bathroom'. When I questioned one about it, she said it just seemed more polite than saying 'toilet'. And we no longer have shops but 'stores'. All is lost.

[NavyDiver]

Colour , Some school books come home in color:bat:

[V8Ian]

Anyway Ian , how the flaming 'ell are you?

dave
Good thanks Dave, back home are you still in Adelaide? If so, don't miss Birdwood. :thumbsup:

[AK83]

.... good luck getting the general populace to understand your issues.

the dumbing down of the education system has consequences, and this is the inevitable result.

It seems that this dumbing down of 'current' languages has been a constant throughout the ages.
Prehistoric hunter gatherer people communicated with grunts and groans, and ughhs and ahhhs.

From grunts and groans to latin and greek .. and back to ughhs and ahhs.

[Hogarthde]

Still in Adelaide, our daughter (previously of 17 mile rocks road), has just presented our first grandchild, her husband is a Chief Artificer in RAEME, hence the transfer from Brisvegas.

Then in Dec. transfer to Duntroon, and as we are self funded retirees , (another wonderful expression) we can meander hither and wither. Yes , enjoyed Birdwood. Will go back to NT in ten days time,.... Might even go to Stokes wharf to see if Ean is up for a yarn,.or should that be ' de brief' ?

dave

[akula]

I understand that language changes over time. I generally don't like it since it almost always involves a loss of precision or subtlety, but I realise that it is inevitable.

However, I have great difficulty understanding why Australians are so ready to adopt American expressions that simply don't make sense.

I generally accept that once I hear a phrase on the ABC, trying to pretend that it isn't a part of our language has become a lost cause.

Tonight I heard on the ABC news that someone was complaining that the government was offering five time less than their property was worth.

That expression is quite nonsensical. Lets assume the property is worth $1 million dollars. Five times $1 million is $5 million. So is the government offering $5 million less than $1 million? Are they asking the owner to pay them $4 million to take his property from him?

I hear that an item is two time cheaper if it comes from China. If it costs $10 and two times $10 is $20, does that mean the price is $20 less than $10? In other words you will be paid $10 the take the item.

You might argue that even though the expression is illogical, you know what is meant, but there is a perfectly good, logical, simpler expression that we used to use to convey the same meaning. We used to say that the government was offering one fifth of what the owner thought the property was worth. We used to say that the item made in China was half the price.

My grand child is not ten times younger than I am (as Americans would say). She is one tenth my age or I am ten times older than her.

Americans seem fond of illogical expressions. Australians indicate their lack of concern by saying, " I couldn't care less." Americans express the same attitude by saying, "I could care less." Once again, that is quit illogical.

If the language has to change, wouldn't it be better if it changed so that it still made sense?


It's the creeping American Newspeak, a concept well described by Orwell, like calling a war of aggression a 'humanitarian intervention' and using words such as 'join the conversation' instead of debate or argue. I also particularly despise the increasing use of sport inspired American expressions like 'game changer' or the use of pejoratives such as 'regime'. All of which simplify and trivialise complex issues into meaningless factoids and make contradictions palatable. Its infantilisation via language.

Furthermore, it might be useful to start looking at the media and the active choices in language used therein as a means to manufacture consent (as first noted by Noam Chomsky), rather than the lofty goal to inform populations and to act as a checks and balances for governments etc.

[trog]

I couldn't give a rats as long as the meaning is obvious. For me aluminum , side walk and street car are correct terms. I am sure other English speaking countries would have some issue with creeping Australian isms. In a uni essay I did use the terms smoko , rdo and sickie. The grading that came back from the professor was less than glowing. Along the lines of not applicable for here.

[Toxic_Avenger]

And the most illogical American expression of them all:
"Make America Great Again!"

[Fifth Columnist]

And the most illogical American expression of them all:
"Make America Great Again!"
They want to ban soft cheeses. [bigwhistle]

[Fifth Columnist]

What about the British speech weirdos?.....

'At this moment in time' - Why not a simple 'now' or 'currently'?

'I would have thought' - What the hell does that mean?

.....and don't get me started on 'Brexit'! https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/963.jpg

[S3ute]

Every night before going to bed, I extinguish the cat.

Hello from Brisbane,

This thought occurs to me most evenings when saying "nighty night" to the S3cat.

Cheers,

Neil

[DiscoMick]

Amerish is certainly not the same as English or Auslish, no doubt about it.

The other day I heard an Aussie female host ask a Japanese student, "Would you like a popper?" which caused consternation.
"Popper, what is popper?" replied the girl, and rushed to Google to search the meaning, followed by, "Ah yes, popper. Yes, yes please."

[onebob]

..... aaaaand more than one of an item is a bunch of...... [emoji37] oops sorry about the bunch of a's up front[emoji51]

[jonesfam]

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezz you blokes!
Stop picking on the poor ol' Tanks.
Crick Mosses, not our problemo they don't speak proper.
Fair dink, you'd think we was bright enough to go out an educate em.

I could call Johno to get onto Davo & see if Fred Nerk is available to do it?

Fair crack of the whip leave the poor buggers alone.

Nuf said.

[bee utey]

"Illogical American expressions"

Wot you guys call "Food"

Guess what yanks, it ain't. :no2:

[AllTerr]

Hey. I think all of my expressions are logical, thank you very much! 😃

[Saitch]

Have a listen to the current Rugby League commentators, especially "Gus" Gould.

"Touch Down"

"Offffence"

"Deeeeeefence"

"Turn on a Dime"...........WTF

"Game On"

"Hit Up"

"Touch Down"

"Ball Park"......This goes with cricket too. Commentators stating the batsman has " Hit it out of the ball park" [bigsad][bigsad][bigsad][bigsad]

I'll stop here!

Steve

[Toxic_Avenger]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/497.jpg

[DiscoMick]

They can't even make a decent latte.

[Tank]

My favourites are:
Sodder for Solder
Aluminum for Aluminium
Fitty for Fifty
Willis for Willys
and the expression: "
Failure is not an option"
and "That's what I'm talking about, right there"
and "Whats up" when greeting.
Regards Frank.

[tc_s1]

i am dumbfounded by"double down"!
As an American I would never say 5 times less when I mean 1/5: though double down is something I would perhaps use to mean I am going to redouble my effort, dig in my heels, etc.

[V8Ian]

The, pronounced thur when followed by a consonant or thee, by a vowel. Nothing cries out 'ignorant bogan' louder than "thur apple, thur umbrella" et al. :mad:

I'm not sure that we can blame the Yanks for this one, it seems to have migrated from the South Pacific.

[tc_s1]

As an American I would never say 5 times less when I mean 1/5: though double down is something I would perhaps use to mean I am going to redouble my effort, dig in my heels, etc.
Also used when gambling to double one's wager before seeing the cards.

[Tins]

Hey. I think all of my expressions are logical, thank you very much! 😃

Yeah, but you think a D2 is a boat[bigrolf]

[DiscoMick]

Yo, babe.

[Disco-tastic]

Yo, babe.Now its "yo, bae"

[rick130]

I understand.

My pet annoyance (one of the many, really) is they call autumn fall but don't call spring sprout.
And insist on referring to aluminium as aluminum.
And .............I actually looked into the aitumn/fall thing once, and it's the English language that changed!
Back when the US was still a colony the English called the session 'fall'

But I agree, we've lost a lot of ism's and expressions, but that's language, ever evolving.
One for me in the trades, and I've mentioned this before is 'tension wrench' vs 'torque wrench'

I'm fighting a rearguard action with tension wrench, but I'm losing!

[strangy]

...and then the final battle of the "shifter" vs the "monkey wrench"

[trog]

Shifter = adjustable wrench
monkey wrench = pipe wrench
Simple

[jonesfam]

I don't know where it comes from but
"Bro"
Should be taken out & shot!

[rick130]

I don't know where it comes from but
"Bro"
Should be taken out & shot!

Then we'd have no Kiwi bro's left, bro ! :o

[strangy]

Shifter = adjustable wrench
monkey wrench = pipe wrench
Simple

You mean stilsons?

[trog]

Yep , same thing another name

[V8Ian]

So what is this?

128171

An old shifter?

[Slunnie]

So what is this?

128171

An old shifter?

They're stilsons.

[Slunnie]

A 'billion' used to be 1,000,000,000,000 'til the yanks devalued it. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/963.jpg

Yes!

So a Yank billion is 1000 million, not a million million
And a Yank trillon is a million million, not a million million million.

Their foreign debt is so much less than what they make out. :lol2:

[austastar]

Hi,
Yep, their gallons are smaller too.

So they can have more of them!

Cheers

[V8Ian]

They're stilsons.
These are stilsons.

128173

The jaws pivot, tightening on the pipe as it is turned.

[Fifth Columnist]

These are stilsons.

128173

The jaws pivot, tightening on the pipe as it is turned.
Agreed. The other one was an adjustable spanner.

Surely 'a stilson wrench' not plural Ian.......?

[JDNSW]

Stilsons is correct - stilson wrench would be only used by someone who is not familiar with the term, but recognises "Stilson" as a brand. It is not only American expressions that can be illogical!

[trog]

They're stilsons.

Pipe wrench or monkey wrench , whichever you prefer. I think there may have been some references to these in the old gangster movies.

[Fifth Columnist]

I wonder where the 'monkey' came from.....?

[DiscoMick]

Soccer or football?

[Slunnie]

These are stilsons.

128173

The jaws pivot, tightening on the pipe as it is turned.

Ooh yeah! I need to go to spec savers I think. :lol2::(

[V8Ian]

Let's hope Specsavers don't use any of the above.

[AllTerr]

Stilsons is correct - stilson wrench would be only used by someone who is not familiar with the term, but recognises "Stilson" as a brand. It is not only American expressions that can be illogical!
X2. In America we call them pipe wrenches.

Pipe wrench or monkey wrench , whichever you prefer. I think there may have been some references to these in the old gangster movies.

[Fifth Columnist]

Stilsons is correct - stilson wrench would be only used by someone who is not familiar with the term, but recognises "Stilson" as a brand. It is not only American expressions that can be illogical!
Ah! Then it's Stilson's.....[bigwhistle]

[Hogarthde]

Stillson is more commonly known as a ' pattern' . The Stillson pattern wrench was made also by Chatwin
Record
Fairfax
Dowidat

This may or may not help

dave

[jx2mad]

The two that p me off are "getgo" and "bespoke" What is wrong with " from the start, or beginning" and "made to order". At least then I will know what the hell they are talking about. Both of these are now being used regularly on the tv and drive me mad.

[pop058]

The two that p me off are "getgo" and "bespoke" What is wrong with " from the start, or beginning" and "made to order". At least then I will know what the hell they are talking about. Both of these are now being used regularly on the tv and drive me mad.

"Bespoke" is one word (and of English origins) and "made to order" is 3. [biggrin]

[JDNSW]

Ah! Then it's Stilson's.....[bigwhistle]

I was nearly going to go back and add "Strictly it probably ought to be Stilson's". But users of the term would rarely, if ever, put in the apostrophe.

[DiscoMick]

Also, why do Americans delete the letter 'u'? They tried to take it out of Melbourne.

[Fifth Columnist]

Also, why do Americans delete the letter 'u'? They tried to take it out of Melbourne.
'cos they're Americans who think they can overrule everything.

[Toxic_Avenger]

My favourites are:
Sodder for Solder
Aluminum for Aluminium
Fitty for Fifty
Willis for Willys
and the expression: "
Failure is not an option"
and "That's what I'm talking about, right there"
and "Whats up" when greeting.
Regards Frank.

Going to add the following redneck expressions, proceeded by their proper English equivalents in parentheses:

"Git'er Done" (Carry on, post haste!)
"Yeah buddy!" (Jolly good!)
"Give'er" (Apply the accelerator, Jeeves!)
"Darn-Tootin' " (I wholeheartedly Agree!)

[jx2mad]

Which would prefer 'made to order" or "knocked up to fit"?

[pop058]

Which would prefer 'made to order" or "knocked up to fit"?

Bespoke is fine. It sounds so "Range Rover "[biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

Better than bodged.

[Tins]

I know full well what "a bit of forby two" is, but what is a two by four?

Bespoke is very English. Rolls Royce were bespoke.

When I was in the Army, we had 'left' tenants, while our American friends have 'loo' tenants.

In America, people from other countries are "forn".

[trog]

I know full well what "a bit of forby two" is, but what is a two by four?

Bespoke is very English. Rolls Royce were bespoke.

When I was in the Army, we had 'left' tenants, while our American friends have 'loo' tenants.

In America, people from other countries are "forn".

2x4 is a pre metric size of timber. Not exclusively used by the USA.
Here " forn " countries are overseas . Hmm last time I looked at a map Australia is a single country continent. Not too logical stating the obvious when describing another country , or is to appease whatever state always seems to want to go things alone ?

[Mick_Marsh]

Anything in a "New York" accent is just plain weird.

[vnx205]

There have always been differences in the version of English used on different sides of the Atlantic. Winston Churchill (and before him, George Bernard Shaw) observed that England and America were two nations divided by a common language.

It just seems to me that some of the replacement phrases that the Americans come up with, like my original examples, simply don't make sense.

[JDNSW]

A lot (but by no means all) of them are simply English that was current in the eighteenth century, lost in the rest of the English speaking world since then, but still alive in the USA.

But most idioms in any language (including Australian English) don't make sense unless you are used to them.

[travelrover]

A lot (but by no means all) of them are simply English that was current in the eighteenth century, lost in the rest of the English speaking world since then, but still alive in the USA.

But most idioms in any language (including Australian English) don't make sense unless you are used to them.In the mid 90's i was working for a global telco and we were preparing a proposal i think for Xerox. As there was so much confusion in language between the US team and the UK team two of us from Sydney flew to Boston to assist in clarifying this confusion. The proposal was to be submitted in the US. Really quite buzzare.

I have worked for a lot of US based companies and the language and mindset is always challenging.

[JDNSW]

In the mid 90's i was working for a global telco and we were preparing a proposal i think for Xerox. As there was so much confusion in language between the US team and the UK team two of us from Sydney flew to Boston to assist in clarifying this confusion. The proposal was to be submitted in the US. Really quite buzzare.

I have worked for a lot of US based companies and the language and mindset is always challenging.

I did not realise how different the languages were until I did a joint paper with an American. At one stage his secretary got hold of it and "corrected" the spelling and grammar. When it came back to me I had to "uncorrect" it, seeing it was being published in an Australian journal!

I was further educated when I later had seven years as editor of the same journal.

[V8Ian]

There's probably a Jeep forum Stateside, where they'e mocking us for calling shrimp prawn, hoods bonnets et al. [tonguewink]

[Fifth Columnist]

Anything in a "New York" accent is just plain weird.
Which New York accent? [bigwhistle]

[jx2mad]

We were in England 9 years ago. Cor Blimy! What a mix of languages. I related this to a young English couple on our cruise ship. They said if they drive to the next village 10 miles from where they live they cannot understand them. Is this the start of the decline of the British nation? The announcer on the train from London to Southport was completely unintelligable.

[JDNSW]

We were in England 9 years ago. Cor Blimy! What a mix of languages. I related this to a young English couple on our cruise ship. They said if they drive to the next village 10 miles from where they live they cannot understand them. Is this the start of the decline of the British nation? The announcer on the train from London to Southport was completely unintelligable.

I doubt it is the 'start'. In 1973 I stayed at a farmstay in Devon. All communication had to be in writing with our hosts - spoken English (Devon vs Australian) was mutually unintelligible.

[Homestar]

We were in England 9 years ago. Cor Blimy! What a mix of languages. I related this to a young English couple on our cruise ship. They said if they drive to the next village 10 miles from where they live they cannot understand them. Is this the start of the decline of the British nation? The announcer on the train from London to Southport was completely unintelligable.

It's been that way forever. The amount of different dialects there is huge and even I as a pure bred Pom struggle to understand some of them.

[travelrover]

We were in England 9 years ago. Cor Blimy! What a mix of languages. I related this to a young English couple on our cruise ship. They said if they drive to the next village 10 miles from where they live they cannot understand them. Is this the start of the decline of the British nation? The announcer on the train from London to Southport was completely unintelligable.

I guess you have not been on a train in Sydney in recent years!

[DieselDan]

It's been that way forever. The amount of different dialects there is huge and even I as a pure bred Pom struggle to understand some of them.

Ha, yeah!
I used to be able to tell the difference in accent/dialect in the next town, about 15km away from where I lived as a child.
I'd struggle to get the general area right these days when trying to pick an accent.

Some of the stronger accents are really easy to pick though - Scouse (Liverpool), Geordie (Newcastle)!
I remember going to the football (not soccer!) to an FA Cup game between my home team Blackburn Rovers and Newcastle United sometime in the late 90s.
We met some Newcastle lads in the local Maccas before the game and had a chat. We each spent more time going "eh? what?" and asking each other to repeat what they were saying because we could barely understand what the others were saying!

There's still a difference between accents/dialects/slang etc. and just being plain lazy with language though.

I still remember when I first moved to Melbourne was in the run up to the AFL grand final and I was listening to the radio on my way to work when the newsreader uttered the words:

"Coming up - all the deets on the comp to win tix to the granny!"

I finally realised she was talking about the "details of the competition to win tickets to the grand final" :wacko:

[Tank]

I'm not phased by some american sayings, what gets me is how do you get Sodder from the word SOLDER, esp. when it is spelt the same as English, do they (yanks) pronounce OLDER as Odder, then there's Fitty for Fifty, spelt the same as English.
The Willys car or Jeep is Pronounced Willis, where the **** does that come from, then Noos for News, does a cow Moo or do they Mew. Dook for Duke, they might spell Aluminium wrong, but most all in the "Table of Elements" end with an "ium", guess the Yank that named it didn't notice.
Mispronouncing a word in American that is spelt the same in english is just stoopid, Regards Frank.

[Saitch]

Gee whizz, Frank, get "Off Of " it [smilebigeye]

Steve

[DiscoMick]

So why don't the Yanks just go metric?

[AllTerr]

So why don't the Yanks just go metric?
It's been proposed a few times before in my lifetime. I think the Imperial System has too big of a foothold.....

[Tins]

2x4 is a pre metric size of timber. Not exclusively used by the USA.
Here " forn " countries are overseas . Hmm last time I looked at a map Australia is a single country continent. Not too logical stating the obvious when describing another country , or is to appease whatever state always seems to want to go things alone ?

Err, here in Oz it is a four by two, in the US it is a two by four. Metric does not come into it.

"Forn" is a way that some of our US cousins seem to pronounce 'foreign', particularly if they hail from Texas, and were once POTUS. I shouldn't really have to explain this stuff on a humorous thread. Hmmm.

[Tins]

So why don't the Yanks just go metric?

Metric is 'communist', or at least some comedy sites think so.

[Tins]

Seems that some haven't grasped the humorous intent of this thread. FFS, lighten up. We get enough PC cr@p in our lives as it is.

[Tins]

It's been proposed a few times before in my lifetime. I think the Imperial System has too big of a foothold.....

Repeat after me: "Wading depth in inches is not the same as wading depth in mm."

Don't worry, this will pass, just as soon as someone else does something worse. It won't take long..

[cuppabillytea]

The french have a name for the Phenomenon. They call it "Cultural Imperialism". Presumably because it gets up their noses even more than it does ours.

My pet hates are: Going forward = in future or as we progress, etc.
Are we done? = Have we finished?

Now that the kids are watching countless hours of mind numbingly inane, semiliterate You Tubers, I'm afraid it's going to get a great deal worse.

[JDNSW]

So why don't the Yanks just go metric?

Actually, the fault goes back to the Congress that sent Benjamin Franklin to France in 1776 - and while he was away removed the metric conversion bit from the legislation he had prepared for land surveying law.

[Eevo]

the US is inching towards the metric system

[travelrover]

They seem to know lots about 9mm's :-)

[JDNSW]

I think the UK still uses miles on roads.

[DiscoMick]

Has anyone mentioned World Series Baseball with only American teams yet?

[trog]

Not here , elsewhere in the past maybe this term has been explained. But a Canadian team has won this series before.

[AllTerr]

They seem to know lots about 9mm's :-)
Gold!!!!

[Fifth Columnist]

I think the UK still uses miles on roads.
We do, but fuel consumpsion is no longer rated as 'miles per gallon', which makes matters confusing for us old farts. [bigsad]

[jx2mad]

Does every car have a built in calculator so you can do the conversions?

[Fifth Columnist]

Does every car have a built in calculator so you can do the conversions?
Hey! We're talking about Land Rovers here.....[bighmmm]

[p38arover]

I'm not phased by some american sayings,

Or even fazed! [bigwhistle]


then Noos for News,

Actually, that's a variation in pronunciation used in some places in the UK.

The US pronunciation of "caramel" seems to be "carmel".

[p38arover]

When I was in the Army, we had 'left' tenants, while our American friends have 'loo' tenants.


I once read that the pronunciation in the RAN (or was it the RN) is as the Yanks do it. Can an ex-navy member confirm/deny?

[p38arover]

Stillson is more commonly known as a ' pattern' .

I've never known them as anything else but Stillsons.

A monkey wrench is different.

128513

[p38arover]

Also, why do Americans delete the letter 'u'?

Blame Noah Webster who created the dictionary used throughout the US. He simplified spelling for schools. His dictionary was the biggest selling book at one time. Noah Webster - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster)

[JDNSW]

Blame Noah Webster who created the dictionary used throughout the US. He simplified spelling for schools. His dictionary was the biggest selling book at one time. Noah Webster - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster)

Not quite accurate. Webster had developed a much more aggressive system of spelling reform for English, and was a champion of the idea that the new nation needed a distinctive new language that could not be confused with English.

However, he was faced with the fact that he had to make a living, and how he did it was by selling school books such as spellers. And the parents who bought this did not want their children growing up with a written language that would cut them off from the major source of business and education in the English speaking world (UK), so they were not interested in his spelling reforms. So what he did was to use in his spellers any alternative spelling of words in eighteenth century English that was in the same spirit as his reforms. He probably sneaked in a few neologisms as well.

You need to remember that many of the differences between UK and US English are the result of the mid eighteenth century push to use the French rather than Latin spelling for English words derived via the French, such as the -our words, and these were still new in 1776, and being used alongside the new spelling. The UK spelling was mostly cemented in the fourth quarter of the nineteenth century with compulsory education and a centralised syllabus.

Some American spellings came later for a variety of reasons - a good example is Aluminium, which had an unfortunate typo in the Reynolds metal catalogue at the beginning of the twentieth century. As this was the first catalogue that offered the metal as a commercial product in the US, the spelling became entrenched. The American Chemical Union (I think I have the name right) did not change their spelling for another couple of decades.

There will undoubtedly be similar stories for other words, but as you correctly point out, the blame most of the differences can be laid at Noah's feet, or more accurately, his spelling books!

[pop058]

I once read that the pronunciation in the RAN (or was it the RN) is as the Yanks do it. Can an ex-navy member confirm/deny?

Always called them "Loo-tennants". Not sure if that is rite or rong but was never corrected over it.

[V8Ian]

I once read that the pronunciation in the RAN (or was it the RN) is as the Yanks do it. Can an ex-navy member confirm/deny?
My Father was RN and the American pronunciation irked him, so must've been RAN.

[p38arover]

I did a search and found this in Wikipedia:


In Royal Naval (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Navy) tradition—and other English-speaking navies outside the United States—a reduced pronunciation /ləˈtɛnənt/ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English) (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/844.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lieutenant_Pronunciation_Reduced.ogg) listen (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/En-lieutenant.oga)) is used. This is not recognised as current by recent editions of the OED (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_English_Dictionary) (although the RN pronunciation was included in editions of OED up until the 1970s).

[cuppabillytea]

I'm told that looking at Naval expressions for extended periods can make a Buddhist out of you. [bigwhistle]

[AllTerr]

Another one that irked me (and yes, I'm American) is the way we/they pronounce "jewelry' as "joolery". 🤔

[cuppabillytea]

Why some Americans persist with the MM/DD/YYYY thing, in spite of the problems it causes and the rest of the wold refusing to follow suit has got me stuffed. It isn't even a logical progression.
Calling a 10th Anniversary a 10 year Anniversary is just plain infantile and it's creeping in here as well.

It's not all their fault though. There was a period in the 80s and 90s when Teachers here, considered gramma an option.

[trog]

Not an expression or pronunciation , but always amused by the weather reports. Seems that all weather patterns end at the borders where Asian or European reports cover the continent?

[trog]

Why some Americans persist with the MM/DD/YYYY thing, in spite of the problems it causes and the rest of the wold refusing to follow suit has got me stuffed. It isn't even a logical progression.
Calling a 10th Anniversary a 10 year Anniversary is just plain infantile and it's creeping in here as well.

It's not all their fault though. There was a period in the 80s and 90s when Teachers here, considered gramma an option.

My teaching was , August 25 2017 , thereby not to be confused by different systems of using just numbers to define the date. This is something I will not change.

[austastar]

Hi,
From My Fair Lady....

The Scotch and the Irish leave you close to tears.
There even are places where English completely
disappears.
Well, in America, they haven't used it for years!

Cheers

[p38arover]

Another one that irked me (and yes, I'm American) is the way we/they pronounce "jewelry' as "joolery". 🤔

And you spell it differently to us, too - "jewellery" in British English.

[Fifth Columnist]

UK weather ends at the Ulster/Ireland border.

To their credit, Americans have retained a lot of the Elizabethan words taken there by the early settlers.
For example: They still use 'gotten' where the rest of the English speaking world has abreviated it to 'got'.

[AllTerr]

And you spell it differently to us, too - "jewellery" in British English.
Ahhh so maybe that's where the pronunciation comes from, and the spelling just got misconstrued along the way.

[p38arover]

Why some Americans persist with the MM/DD/YYYY thing, i

It is used in all Aussie newspapers and on radio and TV adverts now. [bigsad]

Speaking of Aussie newspapers, here are two great examples of poor grammar by Australian journos - from today's News.com.au feeds:


The investigation has shined a spotlight on the eccentric inventor who grew up near Copenhagen, living with his father after his parents divorced age 6.

His parents divorced at age 6? His mother was very young to have had children! [bigsmile]


He built the 18-metre Nautilus submarine after a crowd-funding campaign which sank as he was rescued.

What? The crowd-funding campaign sank as he was rescued? [bigwhistle]

[V8Ian]

Hi,
From My Fair Lady....

The Scotch and the Irish leave you close to tears.
There even are places where English completely
disappears.
Well, in America, they haven't used it for years!

Cheers
Scotch being a distilled beverage and Irish being a nationality, like Scottish. [bigwhistle]

[Fifth Columnist]

Only two things are 'Scotch' - Whisky and butter(scotch), the rest are 'Scottish'.

[V8Ian]

Only two things are 'Scotch' - Whisky and butter(scotch), the rest are 'Scottish'.
Eggs, fillet and fingers. [tonguewink]

128532

[cuppabillytea]

Keep going Ian there has to be more.

[trog]

Scotch tape

[Tins]

I once read that the pronunciation in the RAN (or was it the RN) is as the Yanks do it. Can an ex-navy member confirm/deny?

Ask SHY. However, my step daughter, who was RAN about 15 years ago says it was Lootenant when she served. It is probably Lootenant now in the Army as well. See? Insidious, isn't it?

[Tins]

The Yanks can't even get whisky right. It's whiskey, according to them. Possibly the potato famine had some influence.... The Oirish call it whiskey as well. Which is fine, because whiskey is what they make, and it's fine for what it is. They sure as hell don't make Scotch. Apparently, the Japanese are the best at that these days. Although Tasmania give them a shake. Anyone else confused?

[AllTerr]

Keep going Ian there has to be more.
Hop!

[Fifth Columnist]

Eggs, fillet and fingers. [tonguewink]

128532
All wrong. Ask any true Scot.

[AllTerr]

The Yanks can't even get whisky right. It's whiskey, according to them. Possibly the potato famine had some influence.... The Oirish call it whiskey as well. Which is fine, because whiskey is what they make, and it's fine for what it is. They sure as hell don't make Scotch. Apparently, the Japanese are the best at that these days. Although Tasmania give them a shake. Anyone else confused?
I'd almost be willing to bet that American whiskey out sells any other country's effort. (However good or bad it may be...)

[cuppabillytea]

I'd almost be willing to bet that American whiskey out sells any other country's effort. (However good or bad it may be...)

You may well be right. I've heard a scurrilous accusation that most Scotch these days is made from alcohol produced in the U S and flavoured with Scotch essence.
If it is not made from 100% Barley malt and water then it isn't whiskey at all.

[Fifth Columnist]

I'd almost be willing to bet that American whiskey out sells any other country's effort. (However good or bad it may be...)
Whisky is distilled in Scotland.
Whiskey is distilled elsewhere with the one exception of Canadian Club rye which, somehow, was allowed to be whisky.

[AllTerr]

I was referring to bourban, but I'm happy to be learning of the history of other varieties as well :)

[p38arover]

Keep going Ian there has to be more.

I remember this one from the cryogenic systems compressors we used on satellite earth stations in the Sixties: the Scotch Yoke

Scotch yoke - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch_yoke)

[V8Ian]

Keep going Ian there has to be more.
Hopscotch.

[p38arover]

I was referring to bourban, but I'm happy to be learning of the history of other varieties as well :)

Then there's bourbon. [bigwhistle]

128533

[p38arover]

Hopscotch.


Oi! Scotch that one!

[Disco-tastic]

One American spelling I like is "jail". Our "gaol" doesn't make much sense to me. What other words do when have that start with a "g" that sounds like a "j"?

I'm always amused that New York a coffee is a "kwawfeee" [emoji14]

[p38arover]

One American spelling I like is "jail". Our "gaol" doesn't make much sense to me.

Newspapers use "jail".

Other "G/J words? Geoffrey/Jeffrey.

The former is common here, uncommon in the USA. The latter is less common here, but the usual spelling in the USA.

[bee utey]

Gelignite

Gentle/man

G clamp

Gem/stone

[Toxic_Avenger]

The US pronunciation of "caramel" seems to be "carmel".

Basil (the herb) is pronounced Bay-sil.
...and then there is the other weird names for foods: Rocket is Arugula. Shallots are scallions. Both are creeping into our food scene too it seems.

But what gets me the most...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/903.jpg

[JDNSW]

One American spelling I like is "jail". Our "gaol" doesn't make much sense to me. ..... [emoji14]

Both words derive from the same Latin word "cavea" (cage) via French. The difference is that "jail" came from Old French, and "Gaol" from Norman French. Since the language of administration in England after 1066 was Norman French, that variant passed into legal English. But by a generation after William the Conqueror, the ruling classes were sending their sons to Paris to get a 'proper education', so the Old French version of the word also passed into everyday English. Legal language being very conservative, the Norman French spelling remained in all official documents, and hence was continually pushed to other users.

The spelling "jail" was, of course, one of the reforms pushed by Webster.

[p38arover]

But what gets me the most...


Re Celsius, it used to be back to front:


In 1742, Swedish astronomer Anders Celsius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Celsius) (1701–1744) created a temperature scale which was the reverse of the scale now known by the name "Celsius": 0 represented the boiling point of water, while 100 represented the freezing point of water

[SG1 Bones]

Am I wrong? Isn't the Fahrenheit scale based on the human body's temperature? As in 0 degrees is normal body temperature?

Nathan.

[Fifth Columnist]

Celsius used to be, until recent times, a self explanatory 'centigrade'.

'Herz' was 'cyles per second' and 'torque' was in 'pounds/feet' or 'grammes/centimetre', both easily understood.

.....and who changed a 'gramme' to a 'gram' and a 'metre' to a 'meter'?

[bee utey]

Am I wrong? Isn't the Fahrenheit scale based on the human body's temperature? As in 0 degrees is normal body temperature?

Nathan.

No that's 100°F which was wrong in any case now around 97°F. 0°F was the freezing of a salt-water mix (brine).

Fahrenheit - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit)

[Tins]

Basil (the herb) is pronounced Bay-sil.


You mean basil the 'erb, surely. Then there is oregg​ano.

[jx2mad]

Seeing the States are not united any more, what are they going to call the place...Trumpville?

[pop058]

Basil (the herb) is pronounced Bay-sil.

Ahh, but what about Basil ( the fox ). [bigwhistle]

[Hogarthde]

Yes Ron, most people only know this particular tool as Stillson , to reiterate ,it is a "pattern",
made by many manufactures.
The original make has become the generic term.
Similar I suppose in the way that "Hoover" can mean any vacuum cleaner,
"DROTT" for any tracked loading shovel
"BOBCAT" for any slew steer machine
". JERRYCAN" for container

dave

[p38arover]

I assume that "pattern" means copy in this regard - a bit like the pattern parts made for Land Rovers.

[cuppabillytea]

Both words derive from the same Latin word "cavea" (cage) via French. The difference is that "jail" came from Old French, and "Gaol" from Norman French. Since the language of administration in England after 1066 was Norman French, that variant passed into legal English. But by a generation after William the Conqueror, the ruling classes were sending their sons to Paris to get a 'proper education', so the Old French version of the word also passed into everyday English. Legal language being very conservative, the Norman French spelling remained in all official documents, and hence was continually pushed to other users.

The spelling "jail" was, of course, one of the reforms pushed by Webster.
I tried to explain that once before John. But you have succeeded where I failed.

[travelrover]

Ahh, but what about Basil ( the fox ). [bigwhistle]

Boom boom!

[DiscoMick]

It is used in all Aussie newspapers and on radio and TV adverts now. [bigsad]

Speaking of Aussie newspapers, here are two great examples of poor grammar by Australian journos - from today's News.com.au feeds:


[/FONT][/COLOR]
His parents divorced at age 6? His mother was very young to have had children! [bigsmile]



[/FONT][/COLOR]What? The crowd-funding campaign sank as he was rescued? [bigwhistle]
Should be 'shone' a spotlight, not shined.

[rick130]

Basil (the herb) is pronounced Bay-sil.
...and then there is the other weird names for foods: Rocket is Arugula. Shallots are scallions. Both are creeping into our food scene too it seems.

But what gets me the most...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/903.jpg

And adding to that, the pronunciation of Oregano, Caribbean has the emphasis on student syllables, and herb is always pronounced with a silent 'h'
Oh, and coriander, in the US it's cilantro

[p38arover]

Some terms change, too, or differ from place to place.

A few years back I was touring Washington and Oregon with an American friend. I said "I need a serviette". He looked confused until I picked one up.

"Oh, a napkin" was the reply.

The next evening we were watching a Three Stooges film and someone said "I believe I dropped my serviette"

[jonesfam]

The first time I went to NSW from Qld at about 13 years old, I was completely confused.

When I got of the train a friends mother was picking me up, when I said "Hang on, I have to grab my port." she cracked up.

I was about 20 years old before I got the joke.

[JDNSW]

And I'll bet there are a lot of readers of this that don't get it!

[Toxic_Avenger]

1) Closet alcoholic
2) Well prepared traveller.

Hmmm. Lemme think about it [smilebigeye]

[p38arover]

when I said "Hang on, I have to grab my port." she cracked up.

When I moved to Qld in 1960, I had no idea what my schoolmates were talking about when they got their port.

As an aside, I used a Globite school case, my school mates had hard backpack ports.

[JDNSW]

I didn't run across "port" until I moved to Qld to work after graduating. And it took me years to realise that it is simply an abbreviation of "portmanteau", which is simply French for "suitcase".

[V8Ian]

When I moved to Qld in 1960, I had no idea what my schoolmates were talking about when they got their port.

As an aside, I used a Globite school case, my school mates had hard backpack ports.
What gave it away Ron? All the schoolbags on the port-rack? [biggrin]

I never realised it was a Queensland expression until, people picked me as a Queenslander, for using the phrase "As full as a State School port-rack.". [bighmmm]

[trog]

Feel sorry for you guys. All the schools I went to had lockers, we didn't have to carry our entire school kit around every day.

[p38arover]

Feel sorry for you guys. All the schools I went to had lockers, we didn't have to carry our entire school kit around every day.

I've only seen school lockers in American movies.

[V8Ian]

Feel sorry for you guys. All the schools I went to had lockers, we didn't have to carry our entire school kit around every day.
Yeah, but we didn't go to a reform school. :tease:

[trog]

I m hurt. I was always told they were good schools. At least we were never caught doing the crimes 😈

[rick130]

Hmm, my Grandma was born in 1901 and raised in Five Dock, married at 17 and lived her entire life on small acreage at Mulgoa. She called a large suitcase a Port. The family did travel for holidays quite a bit.

I'll have to ask mum where that came from ?

[JDNSW]

Hmm, my Grandma was born in 1901 and raised in Five Dock, married at 17 and lived her entire life on small acreage at Mulgoa. She called a large suitcase a Port. The family did travel for holidays quite a bit.

I'll have to ask mum where that came from ?

That's interesting - my grandfather lived in Mulgoa from the 1930s to the 1950s; his sister had a shop (possibly the only shop) at Mulgoa from the 1920s, but it shut up shop after her death in about 1940, and he and his invalid daughter continued to live there until the early fifties, when he moved closer in.

[350RRC]

Relatives!

DL

[rick130]

That's interesting - my grandfather lived in Mulgoa from the 1930s to the 1950s; his sister had a shop (possibly the only shop) at Mulgoa from the 1920s, but it shut up shop after her death in about 1940, and he and his invalid daughter continued to live there until the early fifties, when he moved closer in.

It's a small world John.

I think I got Grandma's DOB wrong, thinking about it it should've been around 1914, but she lived there until the mid nineties.

Dad's family came from Luddenham and Wallacia.