D3 S - Coils vs air

[AdrianLR]

Has anyone compared a D3 with coils (S) to one with air suspension off road?

Pros seem to be simplicity and $3450 cheaper but cons are that you don't get the Terrain Response system - how important is this?

[51jay]

Good question....at the risk of highjacking how about extending this to all the air equipped models and include on road behaviour and on track behaviour

[Jamo]

I've only driven the coil sprung model once and it went OK but the drive was not enough for me to be able to really comment.

I find the air susp to be fantastic. The ride is very comfortable and the on-road behaviour is very good. Off road its fantastic.

You could probably get away without the TR but it has some really good advantages.

On gravel, the Gravel setting is awesome. Throttle reponse is reduced, but the car runs on loose gravel like it's on rails. When the TR is turned off, you really know that your driving a 2.7tn vehicle. I know that some will say that the TR can cause complacency, but as someone who does a lot of gravel driving, I'm of the opinion that the less I have to concentrate on the better. That way I am less fatigued. Constantly having to fight a vehicle is not my idea of fun.

The TR alters the way the entire traction control, throttle and supension operate dependent upon conditions. At first I thought it was just another gimmick, but after 25,000km I now know that that's not true. Personally, I wouldn't be without it.

I also couldn't have had the rear diff lock if I didn't have TR.

And, as one 4WD mag pointed out a while back, statistically speaking airbags are less likely to fail than coils.

I suppose it comes down to what you want the car for. 8)

[drivesafe]

Hi AdrianLR, although I have not yet had a chance to use the D3 in any serious off-road situations, ( and thanks to a slight discretion on my first attempt at off-roading with the D3 involving cow dung, has me banned from any further off-road use, but that another story ) I have used a D2 with standard suspension and my RR with similar suspension to the D3.

If you are like me and don’t have that much serious off-road experience then the air suspension will greatly assist you.

If on the other hand, you are an experienced off-roader then you will be able to put the D3 through it’s paces with the coils

I have driven a D3 with coils on road and my D3, with air, is by far a more comfortable ride and does seem to handle better ( but the better handling might be my imagination )

You will have weigh up the additional cost against the advantages of air suspension

[rmp]

http://www.gpsvehiclenavigation.com/rmisc/front-artic2.jpg

clearly shows the superior travel of the air. What it doesn't show is the crosslinking. I have other photos showing the raised/lowered positions.

Air is superior offroad, no question about it.

[Tusker]

Air is the go, based on the trip Sydney LROC did last weekend.

We had one D3 with us. First time I've seen one perform actually. It did very well, it walked over stuff on standard tyres & standard pressures that saw Countys get humg up on the salisbury plough.

It lifted iself on one stretch higher than the owner has seen before.

We did get it stuck eventually. But so did Defenders with difflocks. Only the Simexed cars got up. We're still not sure whether the D3 ran out of clearance or traction.

By contrast, we bumped into a coiler D3, & he was complaining about getting hung up everywhere. So, no contest.

Regards
Max P

[spudboy]

Am very impressed with the articulation of that 110 in the photo, esp compared to the D3s. Any idea if that is the standard suspension or tricked up?

[Greylandy]

I don't think Robert did anything to the suspension ... it looks like standard artic for a Defender.

[Phoenix]

That's RMP's defender if I recall corectly, and i'm pretty sure that he hasn't done any suspension mods.

[spudboy]

Well I am impressed at how good a standard defender is then!

Significantly better than the High-Tech D3, which surprises me.

[Jamo]

Live axle and a larger diameter wheel

[PCH]

I'm glad Robert posted his articulation pics. That article in Overlander was a good on comparing the suspension systems.

My 2 cents worth.

What everyone else has said about air I agree with. I honestly think that if you are going to use the D3 for 4WDing then get the rear eDiff which means you need to option Air Suspension to get TR which then allows you to option the rear eDiff.

What I have found is that in the most agressive TR setting (i.e. rock crawl) you have a lot more "preload" on the rear diff ready to provide more traction particularly in difficult terrain and throttle response is also adjusted to prevent jerking. As they always say make sure all traction devices are engaged before tackling difficult stuff and what better why to do this by making sure you have optioned all traction devices in the first place. Remember none of these can be retrofitted after you have the vehicle (unless ARB come out with an air locker).

I don't think the coiler will ever give you this advantage and also the ride height will not be as high as the Air Suspension version.

Chris

[Ace]

Air suspension is by far the way to go if you are at all concerned about the of road ability. Not only does the Air suspension model have more travel because the opposing side is linked, the lack of terrain response in the coil model makes a huge difference.

As a comparison, get a copy of the Overlander 4wdoty from last year and compare it with the Coil Sprung D3 they tested in this years 4wdoty.

If you want off road ability the air suspension is by far the way to go. This is only an observation compiled from talking to owners and reading the mags, but in each case the comment is the same, the air suspension clad vehicles put the coil sprung ones to shame off road. Matt

[spudboy]

How does an Air Suspension D3 compare to a 110 in real life off roading (as opposed to a static articulation test)? Anyone done a trip with both?

Does the TR give the D3 the edge, or is the old fashioned 110 still up to it?

[stevo68]

Hey All,

Im no expert here, moreso that this is my first 4WD, though have been in a few others. One thing and my partner noticed that when we went up to Bribie before my infamous bogging on the beach, we both noticed that when we were going over the "bumpy" parts on the tracks out to the beach and some of the camping spots, instead of being thrown around inside, it was almost perfectly smooth, you hardly noticed. Whereas in the rear view mirror you could see other fourbies bouncing all over the place. In terms of TR, for a newbie like myself, it is great. Yesterday at home on a pretty steep incline I put into Low range, flicked over to "grass gravel" and then put on the screen which shows what was going on and the wheels started to spin, then onscreen you could see the front diffs lock and she just pulled straight up, I have used all the variables in that situation. Next week after being more adventureous on a potential club outing, I will update as to how it works under more strenuous situations. As for on road it is a dream, moreso for such a large beast,

Regards

Stevo

[Jamo]

I've noticed that the rear diff lock locks itself when I park the car. Just an observation.

The car is far less bouncy over uneven terrain.

Also, kids love the fact that you can make the car go up and down. And being able to lower to access height is great for loading/unloading and for people with back probs (like me!)

[stevo68]

Hey Jamo,

Didnt know it locked itself on parking. My kids love the going up and down too, and well, so do I https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ . Especially at the traffic lights :wink:

Regards

Stevo

[AdrianLR]

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

I've got a D2 Td5 S with SLS and certainly notice the difference in places such as going over spoon drains with the suspension raised compared with a friends coil sprung D2. I asked the question because I'll be changing the D2 in a couple of months (salary packaging arrangements) but the D3 will be a financial stretch in basic form let alone with the goodies added. We do mild offroad, fair amount of gravel, some snow and tow a camper. All of the cheaper alternatives (Pathfinder?) just aren't attractive after being in Discos for the last five years and going for a ride in the D3. Keeping the D2 after the warranty runs out is also a bit daunting but is an alternative. All input on this dilemma welcome!

Adrian

[rmp]

A few replies!

Yes, that's my Defender. Yes, it's stock suspension although that will be changing shortly as it's now worn.

The photo was taken at Melbourne City Landrover, who are kind enough to lend me the site and vehicles for this sort of thing on occasion.

PCH is right, get the traction aids while you can. I cannot see any aftermarket lockers for a D3 any time soon. I can tell you the aftermarket boys are treading carefully around the D3 as it's expensive to development for and they aren't sure there's that much of a market.

I've taken a D3 offroad and had a 130 with twin lockers and muddies as a backup car. Both vehicles got stuck in the same place. Which one is superior? Depends on the situation. Where pure articulation is required, the Defender will win. If either lift a wheel, the D3's better ETC wins. The D3 has better angles with the air suspension, and under-diff clearance due to independent. On sand the Defender will lose. Overall, I'd put the D3 ahead of the Defender.

The diameter of the wheel has nothing to do with articulation.

Adrian -- do not buy a Pathie. They are internally cramped, poor handlers on dirt roads and lift wheels over pebbles. There are better cars for the money. Find a discounted Pajero instead if you cannot afford a D3.

I shall shortly be exploring the RRS's offroad capability, and I expect to be impressed!

[Jamo]

Originally posted by rmp


The diameter of the wheel has nothing to do with articulation.



Rob,

I wasn't saying the diameter had anything to do with articulation in that sense. What I meant was that a larger overall diameter wheel for a given axle position will always result in the lower edge of the tyre being closer to the ground than that for a smaller diameter wheel.

A small advantage, I grant you, but an advantage nonetheless. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[rmp]

Originally posted by Jamo+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jamo)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-rmp


The diameter of the wheel has nothing to do with articulation.



Rob,

I wasn't saying the diameter had anything to do with articulation in that sense. What I meant was that a larger overall diameter wheel for a given axle position will always result in the lower edge of the tyre being closer to the ground than that for a smaller diameter wheel.

A small advantage, I grant you, but an advantage nonetheless. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/[/b][/quote]

Ah, I see and agree. Reduced tyre pressures has a similar effect, and is in fact used by cheaters on ramp tests.

The length of the axle also has an effect too.