What sort of kms can one expect from the Puma 2.4/2.2 engines?

[Robmacca]

Gents.....
Been reading some of the terrible issues that people have been having with their Toyota D4D's even after they have had the injectors replaced and I must say I'm concerned for our own '10 Prado 150. We have had our injectors replaced at 160k mark, but from what I've been reading, that may not prevent engine failure in the future..... These engines are in a multitude of vehicles and they've been around for years now in delivery vans that do huge kms, etc, and ours has now got 170k on it and I'm wondering how much longer should I keep it for....

I'm thinking if I get rid of our Prado, and I'd like to get a Defender Puma but I'm concerned that these CRD engines also won't go the distance and will possibly also fail at the worst possible time. I've only read of a few 2.2/2.4ltr engines that have failed and these failures were blamed on a lack of maintenance. If I go down this path, I'd like it to be our last touring vehicle that we buy, so I was wondering what sort of kms have owners gotten out of their CRD Puma Engines? These engines have been out for years so there must be a few now with some very high kms on them by now....

If possible, I'd like to hear from Puma Owners and how many kms they have on their engines and which engine they have (2.2 or 2.4ltr)? Also if u have ever had any engine problems, I'd like to hear about it as well :)

thanks in advance..... :)

[REDTD5110]

No CRD engine will be as reliable or as long lived as an older engine like a 200/300tdi or td5. However, some are better than others. Your toyota engine should last a while yet, while a puma engine probably won't be as reliable. AS always though, preventative maintenance is key. I've seen d4d's die with less than 70 000km and transit's with 400 000km on the original engine. It all depends

[1nando]

Plenty of transits on carsales with 250k plus kms wjth the puma engine. The puma engines have been known to last hundreds of thousands of kms in tranists, mondeos and i have no doubt the same in the dedender.

[roverrescue]

They don't call em d4dead for nothing....
If the 4cylinder d4d had a Nissan badge in front of it it would be known as grenade mkII

S

[Robmacca]

No CRD engine will be as reliable or as long lived as an older engine like a 200/300tdi or td5. However, some are better than others. Your toyota engine should last a while yet, while a puma engine probably won't be as reliable. AS always though, preventative maintenance is key. I've seen d4d's die with less than 70 000km and transit's with 400 000km on the original engine. It all depends

I'd be hoping for the later - 400000kms+ but I assume because of the numerous Transits, etc that run the puma engine, that a replacement engine should be reasonable in price.... I assume it would be cheaper than the toyota d4d replacement?

[REDTD5110]

I'd assume either engine would be easy to find. Plenty of both are around. Price wise I have no idea.

[4wheeler]

The December 2010 Transit I have for work has just hit 215,000 km. It has the 2.4 engine. Overall it has been reliable. Still has the original EGR. The serpentine belt lasts 100,000 Km and needs to be replaced which takes 10 minutes. Crank shaft pulley died at 130,00 km. Rubber bonding disintegrated. Not cheap but not too hard to replace.

The inlet manifold gasket developed a leak which caused a few error codes and rough running until replaced. The Ford dealer was going to replace the turbo and/or injectors (fault codes logged in system) but I pointed out that the occasional rough running had only been happening since the leak was evident. 20,000 km later, everything has been fine with rough running resolved. It sometimes throws a turbo under boost/over boost code but I just clear it and continue on. Probably happens every 10,000km. I used to worry but have now got used to it. Oil is changed every 15,000km as per service schedule. Luckily my Defender does not eat brakes like my Transit. I don't have to add oil and fuel consumption is consistently 10.8l/100km for a LWB high roof Transit weighing in at 3.2t. Better than my 2.2 Defender!

I will keep an eye on my Defender coolant hoses (there are lots of them) as the Transit hoses wear on each other, even keeping in mind the vehicle drives on 100% bitumen. Once again, I had to point this out to the dealer and ask for a number of them to be changed otherwise I might have had a blown engine if the hoses had burst. Everything is so squashed in around the engine bay that this type of wear is almost a certainty.

[Robmacca]

The December 2010 Transit I have for work has just hit 215,000 km. It has the 2.4 engine. Overall it has been reliable. Still has the original EGR. The serpentine belt lasts 100,000 Km and needs to be replaced which takes 10 minutes. Crank shaft pulley died at 130,00 km. Rubber bonding disintegrated. Not cheap but not too hard to replace.

The inlet manifold gasket developed a leak which caused a few error codes and rough running until replaced. The Ford dealer was going to replace the turbo and/or injectors (fault codes logged in system) but I pointed out that the occasional rough running had only been happening since the leak was evident. 20,000 km later, everything has been fine with rough running resolved. It sometimes throws a turbo under boost/over boost code but I just clear it and continue on. Probably happens every 10,000km. I used to worry but have now got used to it. Oil is changed every 15,000km as per service schedule. Luckily my Defender does not eat brakes like my Transit. I don't have to add oil and fuel consumption is consistently 10.8l/100km for a LWB high roof Transit weighing in at 3.2t. Better than my 2.2 Defender!

I will keep an eye on my Defender coolant hoses (there are lots of them) as the Transit hoses wear on each other, even keeping in mind the vehicle drives on 100% bitumen. Once again, I had to point this out to the dealer and ask for a number of them to be changed otherwise I might have had a blown engine if the hoses had burst. Everything is so squashed in around the engine bay that this type of wear is almost a certainty.

Cheers for that.... 215,000kms is good & some good info to keep in mind.... but still that sort of kms is still fairly young for a diesel. By the time I get around to afford to buy one, there's a good chance that it will be well and truly north of the 200,000km mark, so does anyone have higher kms on their pumas?? +300,000kms??

[PAT303]

It will last longer than the vehicle. Pat

[djam1]

It will last longer than the vehicle. Pat

Didn't realise that Puma build quality was that bad.
[emoji77]

[djam1]

Re the Prado this one was a 120 though
The dreaded Common Rail disaster @ ExplorOz Forum (https://www.exploroz.com/forum/135465/the-dreaded-common-rail-disaster)


Gents.....
Been reading some of the terrible issues that people have been having with their Toyota D4D's even after they have had the injectors replaced and I must say I'm concerned for our own '10 Prado 150. We have had our injectors replaced at 160k mark, but from what I've been reading, that may not prevent engine failure in the future..... These engines are in a multitude of vehicles and they've been around for years now in delivery vans that do huge kms, etc, and ours has now got 170k on it and I'm wondering how much longer should I keep it for....

I'm thinking if I get rid of our Prado, and I'd like to get a Defender Puma but I'm concerned that these CRD engines also won't go the distance and will possibly also fail at the worst possible time. I've only read of a few 2.2/2.4ltr engines that have failed and these failures were blamed on a lack of maintenance. If I go down this path, I'd like it to be our last touring vehicle that we buy, so I was wondering what sort of kms have owners gotten out of their CRD Puma Engines? These engines have been out for years so there must be a few now with some very high kms on them by now....

If possible, I'd like to hear from Puma Owners and how many kms they have on their engines and which engine they have (2.2 or 2.4ltr)? Also if u have ever had any engine problems, I'd like to hear about it as well :)

thanks in advance..... :)

[Robmacca]

Re the Prado this one was a 120 though
The dreaded Common Rail disaster @ ExplorOz Forum (https://www.exploroz.com/forum/135465/the-dreaded-common-rail-disaster)

Yeah, it's a bit of a worry and seems like it's also a bit of a hit and miss as to who it happens to.... The injector Seals were the 1st thing that people blamed, which Toyota did do a recall on, then it was the injectors that people blamed and Toyota eventually changed their design. Just when you think all is ok, u then find out that there is a possible Piston design flaw that Toyota has quietly changed the design of and strengthened. This is one thing that ticks me off that they know there is a design flaw and that they don't let it be known until all goes south when the engine stops.....

[rar110]

Read Diggers Puma saga. From memory his first failure was not long after his 1st or second service.

[PAT303]

Yeah, it's a bit of a worry and seems like it's also a bit of a hit and miss as to who it happens to.... The injector Seals were the 1st thing that people blamed, which Toyota did do a recall on, then it was the injectors that people blamed and Toyota eventually changed their design. Just when you think all is ok, u then find out that there is a possible Piston design flaw that Toyota has quietly changed the design of and strengthened. This is one thing that ticks me off that they know there is a design flaw and that they don't let it be known until all goes south when the engine stops.....

All I've ever read about Toyota's is how reliable they are,500,000km's is the norm. Pat

[PAT303]

Read Diggers Puma saga. From memory his first failure was not long after his 1st or second service.

I'd say failure that early mean's it was faulty from new,**** happens.The D4D's and the earlier KV whatever Prado/Hilux engines have been catastrophically failing from start to finish,you just don't hear about it because Toybota owners are too busy bagging LR/Nissan owners. Pat

[Robmacca]

All I've ever read about Toyota's is how reliable they are,500,000km's is the norm. Pat


I have no doubt that some or a lot of Toyotas do get to those sort of kms and beyond, just like some LR's do also, but with the increase in Technology to get more & more out of even smaller capacity engines, then to me those sort of BIG kms out of the modern diesel engines will become distant memories... Some might even move back to petrol engines as I've been told there has been some good advancements with petrol engines in fuel efficiency, etc. Mazda apparently is one that is working on a new design high compression petrol engine.

just my thoughts though, I could be wrong though :)

[PAT303]

This discussion has been going on for ever,the trouble is Toyota have only made one good diesel engine,the 1HD-FTE,all the rest have been fit for boat anchors or land fill. Pat

[1nando]

The transit is a world icon just like the defender. It is renowned for hard work and very long milage.....need i say more?
As for technology and smaller engines blah blah blah....i dont buy it as being a step backwards. Extracting more power from a smaller engine doesn't make it inferior just more effiecient. The statement i just made is going to get some peoples nickers in a twist but thats the truth.
A lot of people hold the cruiser v8 as the bees knees for a 4wd truck. Why? Cause its big and it doesn't work as hard and blah blah blah. It makes more power and torque than our modern 5 ton hino. Could it do what our 5 toner does everyday? Bet my mortgage it wouldn't. I wont even mention our 3 toner with close to 300,000kms on the clock and a LOT less power and torque than the vdj.
Working engines are generally slow low down torque motors that when driven for intended purpose seem barely adequate, most people would drive a truck at payload and say; f@$k this things gutless not realizing that the vehicle is capable of pulling that load all day long and year on year.
The transit is a heavily used and abused working engine in a vehicle designed to do a job and built for a purpose.....that criteria sounds very familiar to the criteria LR needed to tick when choosing an engine. My 2 cents

[1nando]

Ps people on this site give me heaps for always relating the defender back to trucks but the defender is in my eyes a working vehicle built for a purpose.
A defender is noisy, clunky, cumbersome to maneuver, has live axles and a excellent payload....sound familar to a truck?
Anyone who says no way is looking for a reason to argue or has never driven heavy vehicles. I drive both daily

[rar110]

I'd say failure that early mean's it was faulty from new,**** happens.The D4D's and the earlier KV whatever Prado/Hilux engines have been catastrophically failing from start to finish,you just don't hear about it because Toybota owners are too busy bagging LR/Nissan owners. Pat

3 motors and 5 turbos. 1st motor replaced at 40,000km.

[1nando]

3 motors and 5 turbos. 1st motor replaced at 40,000km.I know a few toyotas and other brands that have had similar issues....
When its that bad its terrible and unfortunately 1 in every so many copes it

[PAT303]

3 motors and 5 turbos. 1st motor replaced at 40,000km.

And I've got serious problems with that.How can one vehicle have so many failures?,it's no different to the owners that had 3-5 P38 diffs replaced for excessive backlash yet none after the axle flanges were replaced. Pat

[Marty90]

I agree with Pat. One engine at 40000k's is unacceptable. After that I'm thinking bad installation practice. Makes you wonder what short cuts were taken in the process.And five turbos.Do we just keep replacing turbos or do we eventually look for the cause.

[PAT303]

I had a mobile plant fitter who replaced fuel filter after fuel filter on a CAT grader because the operator complained of it stalling under power,I took one look and realised the pump was shagged.How so called professionals can replace the same part over and over without thinking the problem lies elsewhere is beyond me.5 bloody turbo's :soapbox: Pat

[ozrob]

Personally from my experience....
I too expected 500,000km from my 2.2 MY13 Puma engine.....all I got was 155,000km....faulty injector blew a hole in No4 piston.
Why did the injector fail??? No idea....and not due to water in the fuel, the STD fuel filter fitted on the 2.2 is 5 micron which is more than enough to filter out water.
Fantastic motor when it is going but there CRD engines are a bomb to fix when they go wrong...all for the sake of meeting emissions standards.
I am not a happy camper...[bigsad]
Personally I would prefer old style diesel engines with mechanical pumps, less issue to go wrong and they are more reliable. If I could a Isuzu diesel would be a better replacement than going back to the unknown failure.

[Jan]

Standard fuel filter may not be completely up to scratch:

DEFENDER2.NET - View topic - Racor: 2nd Diesel Filter (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic48466.html?highlight=racor)

[PAT303]

It's got nothing to do with water or filtration and everything to do with poor quality Denso components.If Ford has stayed with Bosch or changed to Siemens we would not be having this conversation.Everything Denso make is sub par rubbish. Pat