Help needed - replacing Defender wheel bearings

[86mud]

Hi all. I'm currently stuck in Roma on my way to Birdsville with a stuffed front right wheel bearing.

Dwayne from MR Automotive has come to the rescue and put two wheel bearing kits into an air express bag so fingers crossed I get them tomorrow morning.

A quick question - I run oil filled bearings. Do I use any grease when installing new bearings, or simply smoother the new bearings in 80/90 oil?

Thank you

[DeeJay]

My experience has been with series (oil fed) bearings & I always used wheel bearing grease when installing bearings.
They were still good after 10 years & 150k. I assume the grease blends in with the oil.
P.S. I just checked series & 110 workshop manuals & they say "pack with grease"

[roverrescue]

It will never hurt to put some grease on before install
If nothing else it will help when pre-loading them prior to filling
The swivel hubs

When running oil beaRings I always overfill the housings

S

[67hardtop]

Always pack the bearings with grease. ALWAYS.

Cheers Rod

[86mud]

Thank you. Bearings will be packed with grease.

[BadCo.]

I didn't pack mine with grease, soaked them in diff oil and overfilled the hubs. Can't remember if I drilled a hole in the stub axle...

[67hardtop]

This is what happens without grease

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/1050.jpg


Cheers Rod

[roverrescue]

Rod, thats a little bit different eh
OP was asking whether to pre-grease bearings that are oil lubricated.
Yours look as if they never saw anything that resembles lubrication apart from water!

I have always drilled 5mm hole in the stub-axle underside between the bearing seats to ensure quick and complete inner bearing oiling even if it is largely unnecessary
BUT then I still little pre-grease the bearings before install.

Steve

[timax]

I also run oil instead of grease.
While it wouldnt hurt to pre grease them before installing i never have and cant see how it could be necessary .
Assembly lube when installing cams or rebuilding an engine for example is more for the time before the oil pump can get the oil to the top of an engine . We dont have that problem with our hubs.
I do use quite a bit of quality oil when installing though and no metal surfaces are dry.

[JDNSW]

As noted, both the Series and 90/110 (pre grease lube) books say to pack with bearing grease, this was a change from Series 1/2 and early 2a which had a filler plug in the drive flange for initial lubrication. The 2a manual says to disregard whether this filler plug is there and pack with grease. I assume the manufacturers specifications result from experience, possibly with occasional cases of a vehicle running on a side slope, for example from a well cambered road, after redoing bearings for long enough that damage is done before a reversal of slope allows diff oil in.

[67hardtop]

Rod, thats a little bit different eh
OP was asking whether to pre-grease bearings that are oil lubricated.
Yours look as if they never saw anything that resembles lubrication apart from water!

I have always drilled 5mm hole in the stub-axle underside between the bearing seats to ensure quick and complete inner bearing oiling even if it is largely unnecessary
BUT then I still little pre-grease the bearings before install.

Steve
Theyre not mine, the pic was taken from another thread on here. Oil lubed bearings the op put on his defender that he didnt grease coz they were oil lubed so he didnt think they needed to be. He now knows better. Was a costly mistake.

Cheers Rod
Rear Wheel bearing failure (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/249422-rear-wheel-bearing-failure.html)

This is the thread i think. I hope it works its the first time ive done this

Cheers Rod

[BadCo.]

Looks like he forgot the oil too

[timax]

I dont believe there was oil in that hub. Did he only fill it from the diff and expected the oil to then flow that freely into the hubs?
If that is what people are doing then i think your crazy to think there is enough oil getting in.
I have fillers on both hubs as well as drains there also. Fill the hubs and diff slowly until they are overflowing then fill via the diff breather hole until the axle tube has about 5mm or so of oil in it. If a bearing is then sitting immersed in oil it cant possibly be dry.

[roverrescue]

My apologies Rod
Exactly the point uh!!!!

I Guess pre-grease is needed
And or that little hole between bearings?

Steve

[BadCo.]

I dont believe there was oil in that hub. Did he only fill it from the diff and expected the oil to then flow that freely into the hubs?
If that is what people are doing then i think your crazy to think there is enough oil getting in.
I have fillers on both hubs as well as drains there also. Fill the hubs and diff slowly until they are overflowing then fill via the diff breather hole until the axle tube has about 5mm or so of oil in it. If a bearing is then sitting immersed in oil it cant possibly be dry.If you read the thread he said he put 3 litres in each hub, and only one hub failed

[trout1105]

I think that the idea behind using grease in the bearings is to provide better lubrication as the new bearings "Bed" themselves in as the grease would take some time to "Wash off" in the oil.
New bearings usually create some heat before they settle down and grease seems to cope with this better than oil.

[dromader driver]

I did mine recently and used the blue castrol grease that used to be known as boat grease now called premium heavy duty. There are a couple of figures around for the preload so you will need to decide what to use. Bearings and seals off the shelf at repco. Timken bearings too Haven't fallen off yet. [bigsmile1]

[timax]

If you read the thread he said he put 3 litres in each hub, and only one hub failed
No he actually says he put 3 liters in the diff. Dosnt say he put any in the hubs but expected the oil to flow evenly to both sides. It was a rear hub also.I have never done a rear on my landrover so not sure what id do.
Certainly some differences of opinion and interesting discussion.
There is naturally no harm in greasing bearings that will eventually run in oil so that would be the safer bet.
I "personally" wont bother as i think of the wheel bearings in the same way as a gearbox. I have built several gearboxes in club race cars and have never greased the bearings in those. Always just used a good oil. Same with diffs. Although i have use assembly lube if i wasnt going to fill with oil imediatley.

[Vern]

No he actually says he put 3 liters in the diff. Dosnt say he put any in the hubs but expected the oil to flow. It was a rear hub also.I have never done a rear on my landrover so not sure what id do.
Certainly some differences of opinion and interesting discussion.
There is naturally no harm in greasing bearings that will eventually run in oil so that would be the safer bet.
I "personally" wont bother as i think of the wheel bearings in the same way as a gearbox. I have built several gearboxes in club race cars and have never greased the bearings in those. Always just used a good oil. Same with diffs. Although i have use assembly lube if i wasnt going to fill with oil imediatley.Thats how you do the rear diff, just over fill it and the oil migrates to each hub.

[simmo]

Hi,

overfilling the back diff will work if the seal has been remove from the drive shaft, thats how i do mine. ( I'm not game to try and drill & tap the maxidrive flanges they are so hard)

the front is more complicated because of the swivel housing has seals on both sides of it.

I just drilled and tapped a 1/8" gas thread in the front drive flanges and filled through there.

Its worked for 10 years and 100,000 kms. You need to change your rubber hubcaps every 5 years though they do crack and leak after a while.

no need to put grease on them if they have oil bath.

I fill the hub with a 30 ml syringe , 60ml in each wheel bearing. the syringes cost a dollar or 2 at the pharmacy.

I carry a complete set of bearings & seals etc for one hub as a good luck charm, never used them in 10+ years, some grease on them for preservation, wrap them in alfoil and then put in a zipper sandwich bag.


I have a couple of drive flanges drilled spare, ex rear axle before the maxidrive was fitted. when you come back to brissy, you can have a look at them, it would be easy to do yours, I did mine at home.

oil is easy to change , just remove the plug and rotate the wheel down. Good idea to do every 50,000 kms, or when you adjust the bearings.

good luck with the rest of your trip

cheers simmo

[PAT303]

Christ you blokes make it complicated.Just pre-pack with grease and set up as per Land Rovers procedure. Pat

[weeds]

Christ you blokes make it complicated.Just pre-pack with grease and set up as per Land Rovers procedure. Pat

Not often...but agree with you with you on this one Pat

My previous 110 did 250 000 plus while I had it on and didn't replace a wheel bearing....fully greased and adjusted correctly they should never wear out. I did remove the rear axle seals as I fitted maxidrive axle.

[simmo]

Hi pat & weeds,

250 k and never been apart to change the grease? thats exceptionally good going.

Grease didn't work for me because i got water in the hubs and the bearing rollers rusted a little track across the cup when the car wasn't used for a week or two.

when i drove off the bearing would sound like a siren, every roller had a little flat spot of rust as well. If I think there's water in the hub, I can drain a little oil off the bottom to check and then top up. Can change the oil in 15 minutes, without even removing the wheel. It used to take ages to remove the hubs and wash them out and change the grease if it was a bit milky. but each to his own it works for me and the bearings and seal seem to last very well, for such a simple DYI mod' It seems good value. If your removing the drive flange to adjust the bearings, it only takes 30 mins to drill & tap a hole in it. I do carry grease with my spare bearings just in case.

My friend recommended I change to oil bath, he was a truck & trailer axle service guy in the pilbara, he said all the truck & trailer axles in their fleet were oil filled, so both ways have their merits.

cheers
simmo

[JDNSW]

I may be misinterpreting it, but I think Pat was saying to pack with grease even if you are running oil filled, as specified in the Landrover instructions for those hubs that were oil filled from the factory, not suggesting that you don't run oil filled hubs.

Landrover used oil to lubricate wheel bearings (except for the semifloating rear axles in most Series 1) from 1948 to about 1995, and changed from an initial oil fill to initial grease packing in 1963, so they specified this procedure for over thirty years, superseding the earlier initial oil fill procedure.

While later Defenders specified grease lubrication, at no time did they revert to the earlier instructions to initially fill with oil, and if you are reverting to the older oil filled hubs (which I support), why revert back to a procedure that was superseded thirty years earlier? After a few hundred kilometres, the grease will have thoroughly mixed with the oil.

[weeds]

Hi pat & weeds,

250 k and never been apart to change the grease? thats exceptionally good going.

Grease didn't work for me because i got water in the hubs and the bearing rollers rusted a little track across the cup when the car wasn't used for a week or two.

when i drove off the bearing would sound like a siren, every roller had a little flat spot of rust as well. If I think there's water in the hub, I can drain a little oil off the bottom to check and then top up. Can change the oil in 15 minutes, without even removing the wheel. It used to take ages to remove the hubs and wash them out and change the grease if it was a bit milky. but each to his own it works for me and the bearings and seal seem to last very well, for such a simple DYI mod' It seems good value. If your removing the drive flange to adjust the bearings, it only takes 30 mins to drill & tap a hole in it. I do carry grease with my spare bearings just in case.

My friend recommended I change to oil bath, he was a truck & trailer axle service guy in the pilbara, he said all the truck & trailer axles in their fleet were oil filled, so both ways have their merits.

cheers
simmo

Opps, still pull the bearings every 12-18 months to inspect and re-grease.

I suspect the bearing s were original at 400k

[JDNSW]

My oil lubricated 110 bearings have done 620,000km over 31 years and are original. My oil lubricated 2a bearings are original since I have owned it (23 years) and quite possibly factory originals - 47 years old. In fact, thinking about it, in nearly sixty years of driving Landrovers, the only wheel bearing I have ever replaced was a grease lubricated one on the semifloating rear axle of my Series 1 in 1963(?).

I have not seen the need for regular inspections - they get looked at every few years since the hub seals do not last as long as the bearings - replacing them is a semi-regular job.

[weeds]

I may be misinterpreting it, but I think Pat was saying to pack with grease even if you are running oil filled, as specified in the Landrover instructions for those hubs that were oil filled from the factory, not suggesting that you don't run oil filled hubs.

Landrover used oil to lubricate wheel bearings (except for the semifloating rear axles in most Series 1) from 1948 to about 1995, and changed from an initial oil fill to initial grease packing in 1963, so they specified this procedure for over thirty years, superseding the earlier initial oil fill procedure.

While later Defenders specified grease lubrication, at no time did they revert to the earlier instructions to initially fill with oil, and if you are reverting to the older oil filled hubs (which I support), why revert back to a procedure that was superseded thirty years earlier? After a few hundred kilometres, the grease will have thoroughly mixed with the oil.

Hi John..I'm thinking Pat meant just grease, could be wrong.

Either way I have only ever greased

When I pulled the axle seals out of the rear oil only got to one side I.e. Didn't make it out to the drive flange on one side

[Vern]

Hi John..I'm thinking Pat meant just grease, could be wrong.

Either way I have only ever greased

When I pulled the axle seals out of the rear oil only got to one side I.e. Didn't make it out to the drive flange on one sideDid you overfill it?

I have only ever run oil filled, its just so much easier than having to strip it down to repack bearings.
Fill and forget.
Plus a lower failure rate from what people have said.

[weeds]

Did you overfill it?

I have only ever run oil filled, its just so much easier than having to strip it down to repack bearings.
Fill and forget.
Plus a lower failure rate from what people have said.

Yep over filled it...parked in spoon drains on the drive to birdsville while having smoko

I wouldn't know he failure rate between the two....other than I have never had a failure.

Fill and forget?? Would the in the hub stay as clean as the diff?

Either way this thread is a failure of an oil feed hub

Each to their own, I didn't mind pulling my previous defender down to inspect the bearings.

[PAT303]

Yes I meant pack with grease regardless of whether you run grease or oil,fitting dry bearings is a recipe for disaster.Mine are grease packed as well as the after market axle flanges and both are perfect with 500,000 on the clock.Don't over think simple things,it's a wheel bearing,not a gas turbine engine. Pat

[simmo]

I agree with JD & leave the hubs alone most of the time.

I jack the wheels up and check if the bearings need adjusting, (one does occasionally). Other than that I never open them unless seal starts to leak. You notice that right away. :) and only check the oil if I've done a few deep water crossings.

My other check is to coast to a stop on along run and check the hub temps either by hand or with the IR gun. Normally less than 20 degrees above ambient. if you can hold your fingers on the hub its temperature is OK.

the bonus of oil filled hubs is your drive flange & axle splines are always wet with oil, always shiny and clean, and never seem to wear. I don't think there's any need to drill a hole in the stub axle between the bearings.

cheers simmo

[JDNSW]

I agree with JD & leave the hubs alone most of the time.

I jack the wheels up and check if the bearings need adjusting, (one does occasionally). Other than that I never open them unless seal starts to leak. You notice that right away. :) and only check the oil if I've done a few deep water crossings.

My other check is to coast to a stop on along run and check the hub temps either by hand or with the IR gun. Normally less than 20 degrees above ambient. if you can hold your fingers on the hub its temperature is OK.

the bonus of oil filled hubs is your drive flange & axle splines are always wet with oil, always shiny and clean, and never seem to wear. I don't think there's any need to drill a hole in the stub axle between the bearings.

cheers simmo

Like you, on a trip of more than a hundred kilometres or so, I stop after 20k or so and walk round and feel the hubs. Checks for bearing problems and also dragging brakes. And include the ttrailer if any in this check!

I have had one rear drive flange wear badly, despite being nice and oily - but it took nearly 600k. The other one was not significantly worn, nor was the half axle. Leyland's legendary QC?

[simmo]

Hi Jd,

only 600 K out of the drive flange? damm, I'd be asking for my money back. must be one of those low quality ones the modern defender guys are always complaining about. [biggrin]

[JDNSW]

As I suspect you know, the 600k was shorthand for 600,000km, not 600km. And no, it was original equipment, not a cheap replacement part!