Anti Land Rover Mechanics. Lazy? Ignorant? Other?

[sam_d]

I recently had cause to need mechanical assistance on my big trip around WA. It was only a small item, and thanks to help from members of AULRO, I knew what the problem was and how to fix it. I just needed someone with mechanical experience and a workshop to do it.

However, being deep in Land Cruiser country I found help a little hard to come by and began to wonder if the the whole anti Land Rover stance was due to ignorance, laziness, or perhaps something else.

The first mechanic I went to showed a good amount of ignorance. "I've never worked on Land Rovers. Never have. Never will. They're too difficult to work on." How do you you know a Land Rover is difficult to work on if you've never worked on one?

The second mechanic was lazy. "We don't carry Land Rover parts. Nobody round here does. Now, we've got every Land Cruiser part you can think of so if you have a problem with you Land Cruiser we can keep swapping parts out until the problem goes away." So you don't even bother to properly diagnose a problem? You just keep swapping parts out?

To be fair to the second guy, I wouldn't have expected anyone local to carry spare part I needed but admitting you just keep replacing parts and hoping for the best made me wonder about his competency.

And finally, I got the usual "Land Rovers are unreliable." spiel from both. One added the contradictory "They come into town after doing the Gibb River Road and pass straight through onto Darwin. We never see them in the workshop. Land Cruisers on the other hand, we're always full of them!"

Again, to be fair, deep in Land Cruiser country a mechanic will have more Land Cruisers in than anything else just due to the numbers of them. But claiming Land Rovers are unreliable because they never make an appearance in your workshop is a bit odd.

So, I'm trying to work out what this issue really is. I think laziness and ignorance go a long way to answering the problem but there is certainly a mix of incompetence and car make parochialism too.

Any thoughts?

[komaterpillar]

Combination of lazy, ignorant, thinking they already know it all and just plain no ****ing idea. My mechanical background is on heavy earthmoving gear and i've spent plenty of time under the bonnet of Toyotas. My first taste of the green oval was with my 2013 defender which has only ever been to the dealer for the oil pump recall, everything else has been done in the driveway at home. Transfer case, both diffs, axles, CV's, a turbo failure, suspension and general servicing.

In my experience LR have some really dumb ideas where you just scratch your head and wonder why, they also have some friggen awesome and inovative ideas that just make sense! Removable swivel balls and rear stub axles come to mind. Aaaand sometimes their awesome ideas just lack the awesome execution to go along with it but ohwell whatevs.

There's no doubt they are far different to working on the jap vehicles. Some things nicer some things worse in my opinion.

So in a market like australia where the majority of cars on the road are asian built and a budding young or old experienced mechanic see something even slightly different to their normal clientele the alarm bells ring and all hell breaks loose because every other day they can pretend they know everything and are gods gift to spanners and operate on autopilot all day, heaven forbid something different come through the door where they have to think outside the box

[PhilipA]

When they work in an area like say Mataranka where all the cockies drive 70 series , of course they will mainly work on them.
I took my RRC to the mechanic to drain the fuel tank and got the usual BS, but he walked underneath and said , gee they have a good chassis.
The group of cockies there then said that Land Rovers don't last in the bush based on their experience from 30-40 years ago.
But they also reckoned that the new LC V8s were nothing on the old six turbo diesel .

The bush experience is mainly with 70 series and the fact is they are tough as hell and rough as guts.

My experience with Toyotas is in a 40 series and that had 100km seats. After 100km you couldn't stand it any more, and the passenger floor got so hot that 2 truck mudflaps didn't insulate it, but geez it was reliable. All the school kids used to love being picked up in the side facing seats with no seatbelts. Probably go to jail for that now. Wife had one very strong leg from the unassisted drums.

Regards Philip A

[komaterpillar]

The attitude is not isolated to the bush though, plenty of anti land rover nob gobblers in town to

[p38arover]

When I took the D1 to Derby for my daughter, I couldn't get a local mechanic to even do an oil change - not even the ex-LR agent.

"Land Rovers are too hard to work on and I don't have a workshop manual."

"That's no problem, there's a WS manual in the Disco."

Still wouldn't do do it so I went to the local spare parts place got the oil and filter and did the change in a fellow AULRO member's driveway.

[sam_d]

In my experience LR have some really dumb ideas where you just scratch your head and wonder why, they also have some friggen awesome and inovative ideas that just make sense! Removable swivel balls and rear stub axles come to mind. Aaaand sometimes their awesome ideas just lack the awesome execution to go along with it but ohwell whatevs.


That seems pretty consistent with what non-LR mechanics say who helped.

TrevMech in Kununurra said something along the lines of "I'll work on anything. They're all cars. Some are different to others."

And the guys at Auto Excellence in Broome more or less said that they often wondered WTF Land Rover designers were thinking. The Auto Excellence guys said they weren't LR experts but were learning more and more about them all the time. They admitted they they had previously shied away from work on Land Rovers but after the local dealership closed down they decided that they couldn't just turn work away because of a green oval badge. There was a definite willingness on their part to learn about Land Rovers (ably assisted by the chap who runs the local LROC) and I think they secretly liked having a bit of variety.

[Colmoore]

Yep I agree with you both lads. I drove our 2010 defender around the country last year and she performed very well. Like you komaterpillar, I had to replace a turbo; most likely due to 2 things - chunks of carbon coming loose and damaging the fins after I closed off the EGR at 60k and also due to the turbo being cooked by the stupid cat converter. I replaced the turbo with a lm 2nd hand one in 2hrs and put silicone hoses in too.
Also had some minor issues with ABS sensors, minor wiring issues and a leaking diff.
All these issues were fixed by me in the bush or small towns with the tools I lugged along. I have the BAS remap/intercooler package and used the app to read & clear a few minor faults that came up.
Overall my $50000 4wd served us very well for 42000kms.
A land cruiser or patrol loaded to 5t + would have cost me at least 30% more to run and any of the issues I had could well have come up in tojos or nissans not to mention that they (used to) cost 30 - 40% more to buy also.
God does not make cars therefore none are perfect, however bang for my buck, serviceability, strength and basic practicality are what defenders are all about and I'm happy with mine.
Going up the old Tele track a 2015 110 busted his front diff on the first climb out of the creek due to driver error. We disconnected his front tail shaft and he drove the rest of the track to Bamiga in 2wd towing a 2t camper trailer! The mechanics at Bamiga had 4 tojos and a number of rangers and nissans to repair - that they had towed there with an old RR - their recovery vehicle. It really depends whether you're happy to get your hands dirty, carry a few tools and spares or if you want to call in the cavalry to bail you out. I'm a builder, not a mechanic, but a little knowledge, a LR manual and some sweat got us around with minimal service/repair costs.
Most people that criticise LRs have never owned one.

[Grumbles]

It is not just Land Rovers which have this deep seated bias against them in the mechanical game. After a disagreement with the Jeep service department over ownership of my cheque book I couldn't find a workshop which would take on the task of servicing/repairing my JKU Wrangler.

[bee utey]

Most people who work on cars are trained in procedures and flounder when required to think. And of course they're too stubborn to admit they don't know how to think their way through an unfamiliar job. Personally I'll have a go at fixing anything once I understand its operation but then I'm an engineer by training not a mechanic.

[87County]

I think to some extent that the real mechanic's skillset which once included fixing and repairing has been downgraded to "technician/parts-replacer"

[DiscoMick]

There's certainly a lot of BS around about LRs being unreliable and difficult to repair. I mean, a Defender is not exactly a complex vehicle.
Much of this rubbish seems to come from people who either have no experience of them or are just too biased to consider anything not Asian.
I recently had the Defender's clutch replaced with a HD one and the workshop said it was the first one they had done, but they got in and had a go. They were surprised when I mentioned it was actually a Ford engine and gearbox. I think it was actually a good learning experience for their lads.

[Shoogs]

10 or so years ago we lived in Karratha and had a D3 V8, (man what a car...) anyway my wife went to start it and nothing, so she rang the local RAC, on arrival 2 blokes from the local main workshop tuned up, didn't even lift the bonnet and told her it was too difficult, I came home tightened the battery terminal and away it went..

[shanegtr]

Last year when the auto in my D3 crapped itself I had a quick chat to the local mechanics to see if any could drop the trans out for me. End of the day unless it was I Toyota they where not really interested. Had one funny comment to the effect that Land Rover Mechanics are generally stuck fixing Land Rovers because they are too useless to be trusted on anything else

[sam_d]

When it's clear that I'm not going to get any help from someone I always like to ask "Do you know if there is a *competent* mechanic nearby?" :)

I'm sure it never helps and they don't really pick up on what I'm saying but it makes me feel slightly better.

[87County]

Maybe it is because we have often been on the receiving end of this type of comment that we only too ready to try and help out a fellow LR owner in our own driveway.

I knew LR ownership attracted a better type of person - now we all can see one of the reasons why :)

[sam_d]

There's certainly a lot of BS around about LRs being unreliable and difficult to repair. I mean, a Defender is not exactly a complex vehicle.

As far as I'm concerned, if the rangers can get their Land Rovers fixed in the middle of the Kalahari then any competent mechanic in even a modestly set up workshop should have no problems.

[Shoogs]

As far as I'm concerned, if the rangers can get their Land Rovers fixed in the middle of the Kalahari then any competent mechanic in even a modestly set up workshop should have no problems.

I have spent a lot of time wandering around Africa in a 110, the amount of time we have been stopped, greeted with a question about the vehicle and waved on by simply driving one is astounding whilst others have had issues, there is something about them especially in Zimbabwe, Zambia and Namibia, they used to assemble them in Livingstone and everyone can relate a story about them to you... and yes whilst we have never had any mechanical issues there is always someone who knows them.

[DiscoMick]

Last year when the auto in my D3 crapped itself I had a quick chat to the local mechanics to see if any could drop the trans out for me. End of the day unless it was I Toyota they where not really interested. Had one funny comment to the effect that Land Rover Mechanics are generally stuck fixing Land Rovers because they are too useless to be trusted on anything else

That's rich coming from a mechanic who is apparently too ignorant of his trade to work on anything except Toyotas. I guess Toyotas must break down so often that they spend a lot of time in the workshops being fixed.
Isn't ZF the world's largest manufacturer of auto transmissions? Any mechanic who is unfamiliar with ZF autos must have been hiding under a rock.

[1nando]

This mentality is no different to everytime im on the tracks. I always come across people who make fun of my truck for being a landy. Sometimes i laugh it off, sometimes they push it so far that it drives me insane. Ive actually had a bloke we met out on a 4wd day (who i didnt know mind you) wanting to have a "tug of war" with his 79 series to get a few laughs amongst his mates. He shut up pretty quickly when i replied "lets do it" and i informed him i had 3 locking diffs and wasn't scared to have a crack. Also told him ill happily follow him up any tracks he choose to try. That bloke chabged his tune pretty quick.
Anyway......as for mechanics; its a vicious circle. These guys grow up around toyotas and thats what they're comfortable working on. They use excuses to cover for their inability to be able to work on anything other than their norm and as a result LR's are crap amd thats why they dont....apparently.

[cripesamighty]

I had a similar experience with someone wanting a tug of war but I wasn't driving. Around 10 years ago I was on the Powerlines track North of Perth with a mate in his (new to him) RRC and we were just trying it out and seeing what it's limits were - so slow going. One of the Cruiser drivers was watching us for quite a while and asked the same thing - do you want a tug of war. My mate said "sure, no problem - just be aware that the user manual says I am allowed to tow 6 tons if I don't go over 50kph and I am in low range with the diff locked". Exit one crestfallen Tojo driver....
I actually thought he was kidding about the 6 tons until he pointed it out to me in his user manual. That's one tough chassis!

[rangieman]

Well some of the mechanic`s i have had the pleasure of meeting will either laugh and say i dont work on **** ect or are happy to work on them for a high premium or will but are just plain incompetent .

Even a very good mate of mine which has his own 4wd shop laugh`s at Landy`s yes he is a one eyed yota lover but i still get him to set my diffs up as he is a wizz with diff`s[wink11] Funny i have been away with him and his cronies and cop a bagging every time but have i ever broken down no but there have been a few broken toyota`s that have caused a few head aches at times[biggrin]

Either way it does not fuss me one way or the other as i am very confident to carry out a big majority of work on my own car also SWMBO`s toyota which is a ***** to do anything on mid mount engine Tarago :bat:

So for what ever reason`s said spanker`s dont want to work on your car tuff titties for them as they will miss out on the dollars and bad luck to you guys for having the miss fortune to meet these tosser`s and i guess bad luck if you require assistance in the middle of nowhere . Not much else can be said really except i hope no one has to deal with these naive imbecile`s in a emergency [bighmmm]

[PhilipA]

It happens to other brands also.
I met a bloke at Heavitree caravan park in Alice and we got to talking, and it transpired that he had a 3.0 l Nissan Patrol.

I innocently asked if it had blown up yet, at which he looked as if he would punch me and stalked away.

His mate sidled over and said not to worry about him as his second engine had just blown up and he was upset.
Regards Philip A

[Tote]

In all trades there are those who have sufficient product knowledge to successfully repair a good percentage of the jobs they have been allocated and make a good living. They tend to cover their inadequacies when faced with a problem that they are not familiar with by blustering about how all that model/make are crap and they don't usually touch them or refuse to accept the task due to not being trained on that model. When pushed into doing the task it may well become one of those horrible units that are best resolved from a service manager's perspective by replacing it.
I've seen this attitude from when I started my electronics trade in 1982 all the way through to my current role as an IT Architect.
A small percentage of techs are able to apply methodical troubleshooting techniques to a problem and methodically work through a problem to find the root cause and resolve it. Unfortunately the commoditisation of goods has often made labour costs worth more than a good repair and the dumbing down of the repair process and withholding of the knowledge on how a system actually works makes this approach difficult and expensive.
When I started in electronics we used to replace the heads in video recorders and spend time with a CRO aligning them, eventually video recorders were worth about 2 hours labour.

Cars are no different with all the repairs of the "hard bits" such as electronic systems being a swap it till the problem goes away solution and the dealers unable to repair at a deeper level even if they want to.

When you find a competent mechanic understand that his time is worth money and a proper fix takes time sometimes. The others will never change and are best left to swap the pile of spare parts that they have ordered on someone else car.

Interestingly a lot of the people that I run into that are capable of proper fault finding are ex military types, not sure if that's a Canberra thing or if they are still trained the way I was by an old fashioned tradesman in an atmosphere where sufficient time was available to do repairs properly. A lot of the government institutions that used to train apprentices to actually fault find and repair do not exist anymore, Telstra is privatised, electricity commissions no longer exist etc.

Regards,
Tote

[p38arover]

A lot of the government institutions that used to train apprentices to actually fault find and repair do not exist anymore,

I did my initial 3 years of full-time Radio Technician training at the DCA Training School. Once I went into the field with the Overseas Telecommunications Commission, I did more training each time a new system I had to use/work on was deployed.

These days there are no trainee technicians.

[101 Ron]

When I was a younger tradesman I would remove a alternator, fault find and purchase and replace a diode.
Fit the alternator with new brushes and bearings ect and Refit and test.
I purchased a new aftermarket alternator the other day for a FJ40 Toyota for 158.00 dollars.
For that amount of money you don't stuff around any more.
But just some times when the maker of the vehicle gets greedy and the alternator is worth ......say 1000.00 dollars to replace the old option of rebuilding becomes viable,but the same maker usually factors in a odd non advailable bearing or something to stop rebuilds.
I drive the 101 Landy around a bit and get the usual oil leak jokes ect.
I often get asked if I did the V8 conversion.............the answer no it was standard with the motor floors a lot of people.
I usually add the constant 4wd and 4 speed box with bullet proof axles ect was being produced when Toyota and Nissan's were still using cast iron three speed boxes etc.
Listen around the fire during a trip and the truth comes out about the reliable Toyota, the number of CVs or diffs,transfercases etc chewed up..,........but it doesn't seem to count.

[101 Ron]

The whole vehicle repair game has changed.
The skill now is to diagnose the electrics and throw in the new part....,.if it still advailable.
Knowing what part numbers X over from one brand to another helps and having access to information about the brand of vehicle.
The problem is the information needed to repair may only be advailable from a dealer.
If you are not a dealer of the brand you are working on it is very hard.
The vehicle trade does have a shortage of mechanic's as few are silly enough to stick it out for a long time.
It takes time to become good as a mechanic and then your experience may only be in one field or brand.
I note as a old style mechanic............I lack the day to day experience of the newer machines................but I have a edge in listening for a engine knock or setting up a diff etc.
We now just about have the just out of the 100.000 k warranty throw away vehicle with engines not designed to be rebuilt or parts advailable to do so.
I can under stand some Toyota/Nissan/etc mechanic's not wanting to look at another brand..........especially if it a bit different to what they are used to.

[101 Ron]

A big factor these days is something like 50% of apprenticeships in the automotive game now fail.
The days where a company could afford to have a apprentice working side by side for long periods of time is much reduced.
The vehicles are now changing so much in a sort period of time the TAFE cannot keep up with technology of the vehicles and it is different brand to brand.
It is just so hard to keep pace with even a small specialised field of vehicles these days.
One saving grace in the information source of the internet.
I personally have been getting up to speed on the Nissan CVT transmission.
Many people/ mechanic's don't like it.
I has much going for it and it is looking beyond the stories and hype you truly learn.

[cripesamighty]

When I was still at uni I attended a party and was introduced to several people who were visiting from Canberra, including the brother of the host. He said he was a materials engineer and didn't elaborate. What he meant was (his brother told me later), he was employed by large companies to incorporate 'planned obsolescence' into various components at a prescribed point in the part/components life to maximise profits. I had no idea these sorts of vocations even existed up until then. No wonder he didn't want to elaborate!

[carjunkieanon]

Local Volvo repairer was saying something recently about Volvo no longer (or would soon no longer) be making their software available to independent mechanics. He therefore wouldn't be able to work on the newer cars. He is quite interested in what the game will be like when everyone's driving electric cars - he said he was looking forward to less oil and dirty smoke!

[scarry]

Local Volvo repairer was saying something recently about Volvo no longer (or would soon no longer) be making their software available to independent mechanics. He therefore wouldn't be able to work on the newer cars. He is quite interested in what the game will be like when everyone's driving electric cars - he said he was looking forward to less oil and dirty smoke!

The regulators are onto this,it has been in the media lately.
There are changes on the way.

[gromit]

Sitting round a camp fire in the High Country with a group of guys on a Gold Mine tour, I had the only Land Rover.
So I start getting picked on....Land Rovers unreliable etc. I asked the usual "so how many have you owned then" to which I got it was a mate or an uncles third cousin etc.etc....

Anyway this went on for a while, I'm thick skinned and they are obviously ignorant but suddenly a 100 Series guy jumped in to my defence ? I sat back and wondered where this was going.

He then started on about the 100 Series gearbox problems, to the Nissan guy he mentioned the 3.0litre diesels that self destruct and just pointed out that ALL makes have problems, why pick on the land Rover owner !
They then sat around discussing known problems for all the Japanese 4-wheel drives, and I carried on drinking my beer......


Colin

[bsperka]

Here's a few -Landcruiser and Patrol wheel bearing issues; D4D failures; Patrol wheel shimmy; Landcruiser v8 twin turbo oil use. Interestingly though their owners (begrudgingly?) accept this, but I noticed that some Landrover owners won't spend the same on keeping their more sophisticated vehicles in good running order. 2 guys at work come to mind, out of the 4 that own Discoverys.

[3toes]

In relation to the skills and time required to assess and repair. When I was working for a fleet management company we would only pay the dealer for a maximum of 2 hours for electrical problems. Found dealers were spending days chasing electrical faults. If they could not figure it out within 2 hours the dealer carried the cost of further investigation or just told the driver that they could not replicate the fault. Seems harsh however they were monitored and very few vehicles ever came back in for the same issue at a later time. As vehicles become ever more dependent on increasingly complex electrical systems this can only become a bigger issue. Not sure you can blame the mechanic though as their knowledge will become more and more brand specific

[Colmoore]

This mentality is no different to everytime im on the tracks. I always come across people who make fun of my truck for being a landy. Sometimes i laugh it off, sometimes they push it so far that it drives me insane. Ive actually had a bloke we met out on a 4wd day (who i didnt know mind you) wanting to have a "tug of war" with his 79 series to get a few laughs amongst his mates. He shut up pretty quickly when i replied "lets do it" and i informed him i had 3 locking diffs and wasn't scared to have a crack. Also told him ill happily follow him up any tracks he choose to try. That bloke chabged his tune pretty quick.
Anyway......as for mechanics; its a vicious circle. These guys grow up around toyotas and thats what they're comfortable working on. They use excuses to cover for their inability to be able to work on anything other than their norm and as a result LR's are crap amd thats why they dont....apparently.

Don't offer to follow a 70 series up the serious stuff - unless he doesn't mind you pushing him up with your bullbar. Lead him along a 40deg incline and face the GoPro back [emoji6]

[86mud]

I just faced this in Roma. I had a shot wheel bearing and while I was happy to replace it myself, I was just asking that I could park in a mechanic's yard while I repair it in case I needed help with getting the cups out of hub. Every garage I rang said they were full up with no room.

Luckily the caravan park owner allowed to pull the hub apart under a tree in his yard and had no issues getting the cups out of the hub.

[carjunkieanon]

I just faced this in Roma. I had a shot wheel bearing and while I was happy to replace it myself, I was just asking that I could park in a mechanic's yard while I repair it in case I needed help with getting the cups out of hub. Every garage I rang said they were full up with no room.

Luckily the caravan park owner allowed to pull the hub apart under a tree in his yard and had no issues getting the cups out of the hub.

When in Roma do as the Roma'ns do. :)

[DiscoMick]

I once had a Toyota bloke giving me an earful about why didn't I get a 'proper' 4WD. He got quite stroppy when I said I didn't want to trade down to a Toyota! So I rattled off a list of well-known Toyota problems and he shut up pretty quick.
Then, just to rub it in because I could and he had annoyed me, I mentioned how Land Rovers were on the Snowy Mountains scheme for eight years before the first Toyotas arrived and they didn't even have low range. Then I mentioned how Len Beadell and his Land Rovers opened up the centre. He refused to believe it, so I told him to read some history.

[ATH]

Not just mechanics who are sometimes ignorant. I was in a local Repco inquiring about the engine oil for the Puma, could they get it for me and cost etc. The young bloke was trying hard and asked another for help...."Put any ******* thing in it, it's only a Land Rover"! Thankyou and goodbye.
I've never been back as there's plenty of others flogging oils and other bits.
AlanH.

[TimNZ]

Some people seem to think being loyal to their chosen brand means they have to crap on everything else. Good luck to them and their blood pressure.

I've never experienced anything more than a bit of a ribbing from other vehicle owners, however a few interactions have been notable:

One of my customers asked why I drive an unreliable LR if it is my work vehicle, I replied I had not had too much trouble and asked if he had had any of the oil consumption issues with his 200 series everyone was talking about, "Oh, yeah, they replaced the engine a while back"

Another time a young bloke was bogged on the side of the road, but refused my offer of being pulled out citing that he wouldn't stoop to that level. I tossed him a water bottle and told him he would need it with that attitude.

We, myself and a Patrol driver, limped a 200 series in our convoy into Kal along the Holland track by playing battery jamboree after the Toyota suffered an alternator failure. We were all sitting in the waiting room of an autosparky's in Kal when someone wandered in and enquired who the "Brave bastard" driving the Land Rover was, the owner of the Toyota turned around and told him to **** off.

Happy motoring :)

Cheers,

[discorevy]

Depending on if it's just banter or they're a full blown $&#+head , my speil varies from " if I wanted half the power , twice the fuel consumption, and for it to drive like a lump of wood then I'd buy one."( Toyonissa****ty ) to " we don't all have to worship cars from the country that tortured our grandfather's" ( I know, but they have to be the latter to get that one)

[Davo]

This is a good thread. I've been up here with my Landie and Rangie for quite a long time and it's at the point where I simply know I'm going to hear the usual stupidity when I go to a local business, it's that certain. It's not an "if" but a "when". And I do all my work myself anyway, so it's not like I'm at these places very often! One mechanic in Fitzroy Crossing used to greet me with, "We don't work on Land Rovers," whenever I went it - but I was always there with work Toyotas. Another mechanic there groaned about Land Rovers because he had done his apprenticeship in some rural area where all the farmers had them.

Here in Derby, one business couldn't replace the Rangie's windscreen and spent four hours trying and swearing and blaming it all on the make of car, so I figured it out via Youtube and did it myself. (It wasn't really that hard.) I needed some aircon parts when I was building a system for the Rangie and a local shop asked what the parts were for and I told him, so the muttered remark was, "Good luck with that,". A guy at another shop had to ask about the reliability of the Rangie, since obviously I was crazy for having one. A guy at a tyre shop asked, "How did you get to be so unlucky to own a Land Rover?". So now I'm just waiting for the next comment . . . it's like dealing with a cult.

[Tins]

Remind anyone who owns a V8 70 series LC that Toyota couldn't be bothered to widen the track at the rear as they had to do at the front, and thus made the car hopeless on sandy tracks, and see what they say.

[1nando]

Remind anyone who owns a V8 70 series LC that Toyota couldn't be bothered to widen the track at the rear as they had to do at the front, and thus made the car hopeless on sandy tracks, and see what they say.Not to mention injector, oil consumption, weak front diff.....the people using them in the mines were blowing up at how weak the front diff was. I actually read that on a Toyota forum.

[DiscoMick]

Front suspension.

[trog]

The parts place I work for doesn't even stock LR parts. When looking for stuff for my old D2 , same response , get a ......

[strangy]

..."we don't work on LR" because they are unreliable yet their business is fixing broken vehicles of any other make because they are " reliable"
What a curious collection of small people.

I don't lose any sleep at all when some plonker behind a counter believes I should suffer a gout of his ignorance.
I just smile and say
"no worries I'll get it off the net, just thought I'd try support a local business, but it's cheaper and faster than you guys and they don't mouth off at the source of their income."

I've also decided to take advantage of google.
Most businesses have review options associated with their site and I happily take the time to review the service provided accordingly.

It's cathartic and will cost these plonkers much more than my unwanted $.

[trout1105]

I consider myself to be quite lucky that I can go to my local LR specialist in times of need, Fantastic service and bloody fast too.
I have NEVER seen a Toyota or Nissan in their workshop though [bigwhistle]

[sam_d]

I consider myself to be quite lucky that I can go to my local LR specialist in times of need, Fantastic service and bloody fast too.
I have NEVER seen a Toyota or Nissan in their workshop though [bigwhistle]

Of course you won't ever see a Toyota or Nissan there. Toyota and Nissan are far too reliable to ever need to go to a workshop for repair! :)

And I'm guessing from your location you mean Whyatts? They did my Disco's service on my recent big trip. Fast and efficient they were. They even gave it a clean before I picked it up.

[trout1105]

And I'm guessing from your location you mean Whyatts?

That's the Mob [thumbsupbig]

[Davo]

And has anyone else noticed it's far worse than before the internet took off? I never experienced anything like this 25 years ago; quite the opposite, in fact.

[knares]

I have heard of lots of problems with modern LR, some of them being brand new.
I never liked the early land cruiser, after being used to LR, it was like getting in to a horse and cart .
I wouldn’t have bought a LR in a fit, but I was asked to take this one for a drive (I was sucked in)
And I had to buy it.
As always I never buy anything that doesn’t need fixing and it needs fixing, i will see how I go

[towe0609]

I've had mixed experiences. I've had an independent LR workshop refuse to replace seals in a steering box, said they'd only replace the box, and found another local workshop (non LR specific) that did the seals only no problem (it remains leak free to this day). Another local 'generic' workshop had the attitude that the defenders are just another diesel 4wd and they were very happy to have the business from any make. It did make my blood boil when another non LR specific workshop charged me stealer genuine part full RRP prices for crap after-market filters .... encouraged me to learn how to service the thing myself though. I suspect country independent mechanics are a bit more versatile.

[CraigE]

I find most are just inept and not real mechanics any more, more mechanical fitters as very few actually rebuild and repair, they just replace.
When they state Land Rovers are too difficult to work on this shows that they are truly inept and not a decent mechanics butthole. A proper mechanic can work on any car, yes they may need some specifics for certain jobs, but an engine is an engine is an engine. My BIL is a diesel mechanic, primarily heavy duty diesel, but will work on any engine from the smallest stationary to motor bikes to 4x4, trucks and heavy earthmoving. Yes at times he has to get specific information but wont baulk at a job because he does not know the specifics.


I recently had cause to need mechanical assistance on my big trip around WA. It was only a small item, and thanks to help from members of AULRO, I knew what the problem was and how to fix it. I just needed someone with mechanical experience and a workshop to do it.

However, being deep in Land Cruiser country I found help a little hard to come by and began to wonder if the the whole anti Land Rover stance was due to ignorance, laziness, or perhaps something else.

The first mechanic I went to showed a good amount of ignorance. "I've never worked on Land Rovers. Never have. Never will. They're too difficult to work on." How do you you know a Land Rover is difficult to work on if you've never worked on one?

The second mechanic was lazy. "We don't carry Land Rover parts. Nobody round here does. Now, we've got every Land Cruiser part you can think of so if you have a problem with you Land Cruiser we can keep swapping parts out until the problem goes away." So you don't even bother to properly diagnose a problem? You just keep swapping parts out?

To be fair to the second guy, I wouldn't have expected anyone local to carry spare part I needed but admitting you just keep replacing parts and hoping for the best made me wonder about his competency.

And finally, I got the usual "Land Rovers are unreliable." spiel from both. One added the contradictory "They come into town after doing the Gibb River Road and pass straight through onto Darwin. We never see them in the workshop. Land Cruisers on the other hand, we're always full of them!"

Again, to be fair, deep in Land Cruiser country a mechanic will have more Land Cruisers in than anything else just due to the numbers of them. But claiming Land Rovers are unreliable because they never make an appearance in your workshop is a bit odd.

So, I'm trying to work out what this issue really is. I think laziness and ignorance go a long way to answering the problem but there is certainly a mix of incompetence and car make parochialism too.

Any thoughts?

[bob10]

Interestingly a lot of the people that I run into that are capable of proper fault finding are ex military types, not sure if that's a Canberra thing

Regards,
Tote

I can assure you it is their training. WTF is a Canberra thing, anyway? Really.

[Tote]

I can assure you it is their training. WTF is a Canberra thing, anyway? Really.

A Canberra thing would be the number of ex millitary types that are in greater abundance around Canberra than in other places that I have worked. Really.

Regards,
Tote

[p38arover]

When I worked on satellite earth stations in the late Sixties/early Seventies, the Plant Officers who looked after the cryogenics, air conditioning, diesels, power, hydraulics, etc., were all ex-Navy or had worked in PNG.

They were the only blokes who had learned to work on anything.

[bob10]

A Canberra thing would be the number of ex millitary types that are in greater abundance around Canberra than in other places that I have worked. Really.

Regards,
Tote

Very Illuminating. Thank you.

[Disco-tastic]

The biggest trouble I've had locally is the need for "special" tools to remove certain things. I know an FBH can be substituted for ball joint pullers but even to press a bearing out you needed a special LR specific tool so that you didn't damage anything. You could probably make one up (they're bloody expensive) but i can understand why you couldn't be bothered if its something you'll only use once or twice.

[CraigE]

I should highlight there are those that do a bloody good job though and should not alienate them as this is a generic comment aimed at the some stealers and run of the mill mechanics and those that can only service 1 brand.

I find most are just inept and not real mechanics any more, more mechanical fitters as very few actually rebuild and repair, they just replace.
When they state Land Rovers are too difficult to work on this shows that they are truly inept and not a decent mechanics butthole. A proper mechanic can work on any car, yes they may need some specifics for certain jobs, but an engine is an engine is an engine. My BIL is a diesel mechanic, primarily heavy duty diesel, but will work on any engine from the smallest stationary to motor bikes to 4x4, trucks and heavy earthmoving. Yes at times he has to get specific information but wont baulk at a job because he does not know the specifics.

[aussiebushman]

Yes I know this is a very old thread but for the amusement of fellow LR owners, I thought I'd share my most recent experience of dealing with one of the "expert" mechanics in the area, I have used this guy before for simple jobs and figured installing a replacement radiator was within his range of skills - wrong!

New copper/brass radiator arrived - a long and expensive story. It did not come with the oil cooler spigots. Mechanic confused. Graeme Cooper's sent me the set that fitted the radiator but not the cooler lines. Mechanic more confused. Fortunately I had the ones from the original radiator so these were cut and silver soldered onto the new ones - problem solved and radiator installed

Purchased expensive but excellent cleaner from Liquid Intelligence despite "mechanic" claiming it was unnecessary. I rigged up a bypass tank so the emulsified oil in the coolant passages would not clog the new radiator. With mechanic's "help" got out most of the gunk. This left the mechanic to flush it again and test it. Paid for labor to date (not including radiator or spigot fabrication $300

All above was the good news! Now for the sequel - First a statement that he would "pull out the engine tomorrow" - I declined. Here is the email exchange (comments in blue are mine):

We returned to your car today,

We started it and surprisingly it ran on 8 cylinder. It took 2 litres of water in the header tank. Oil is leaking around base of distributor.

Would you agree it is most likely an air lock from when it was filled ?

There is still a lot of oil in the header tank and I believe it is from the previous episode. not current problems.

Yes- seems certain it is OLD oil still in coolant so it needs to be flushed again - this time, your dish washing option will be best

We checked the oil pressure it was 26psi at idle engine warm not hot. Don't know what the spec is but I would expect better than that. Could be a blocked strainer, broken pump relief valve spring, worn engine bearings or worn pump.

Hot idle oil pressure can be as low as 20psi and not risk the engine. Have you or will you please clean the pressure relief valve? Was the oil pressure switch replaced with the new one sent from Cooper's last week? Some of the AURO guys have reported oil pressure problems caused by clogged anti drainback valves on the oil filters. Obviously these are cheap things to check before ripping the engine apart

I assume you wanted to check your air flow metre that was attached to the car. It seemed to work ok.

Yes, it is the one in the car that needed checking and although there are electrical measurement to do this, the simplest way is to remove it, unscrew the sensor section and visually check that the fine wires are intact. Only if that inspection fails should it be be necessary to replace it. Stuart tells me a faulty MAF will affect idling but will not cause the engine to misfire significantly

The spark plugs were removed but not replaced as they were NGK iridium spark plugs. Some showed signs of oil fouling The passenger side seemed worse than the drivers side.

The compression pressures starting on the drivers side and starting at the front and moving backward are 140 130 130 120 all in psi The compression pressure then starting on the passenger side at the front and moving backwards are 140 110 140 120 all in psi Any of the figures under 140 had a wet test done and they improved approximately 10 psi indicating a burnt valve.

The passenger's side are cylinders 1,3,5 & 7 and from what you say below, that is where the lowest compression occurred, though the reading are not far enough out to cause me a great deal of concern. As you say, it could be a valve - burned or maybe just sticking

Please advise where you want to go from here.

Good question. Maybe I'm stupid but I still cannot image why an engine running so well before the radiator incident should now be in so much trouble For that reason, I'm not inclined to have the rings or head gaskets done just yet. I suggest (per above):
Clean out the cooling passages again until the gunk has been largely eliminated
Clean the oil pressure relief valve
Fit the replacement oil pressure switch if not already done
Visually check the MAF hot-wires if not already done
Put a can of valve cleaner into the oil and run the engine for a while
Recheck that the ignition timing is set on 13 BFTDC

Now for the really fun part:

Verbal advice from mechanic " You have to trust me" " I have been doing this for 40 years" " it is almost certainly the missing thermostat causing the problem" "I'll drop the sump" Mt answer "No you will not"

Later - "Took car for a run, Oil light came on again. It was almost out of engine oil -Had it towed back"

My actions:

Told mechanic to leave the vehicle alone.
I installed new battery
I changed the spark plugs.
I replaced the thermostat
Car refused to start - only a clunk from the starter
Had it towed to reliable service centre

Result: Service shop tested the starter motor, then drained - wait for it - 15 litres oil NEW oil from the vehicle. Tested - no oil warning light. Charge for labor $300

Complained to mechanic, demanding partial refund of $800 labor charges. Very unhappy response including (if you can believe this):

"The only point I will contend (I think he means "concede") is 15 litres of oil in the sump. How it would get there I do not know. I had the oil the engine arrived with and two litres of your oil in the back of the car. I did not purchase or use any other oil at your request. It is unfortunate that you managed to park and work on your car outside a neighbors house whom has protested to the council about the operation of my business in a residential area on many occasions. You could possibly ask them how the oil got there. It was parked there for some considerable time with the key in the tail pipe also at your request and at time of your doing". "Oh and I never want any further contact with you"

My conclusion: Obviously they blackened their faces, recovered the key from the exhaust where it was hidden, unlocked the car, released the catch and raised the bonnet - all in complete silence. Then they poured about 12 litres of completely fresh new oil into the engine before closing the bonnet, re-locking the car etc. Very skilled neighbors indeed!