Cyclist attacks bus driver

[DiscoMick]

Seriously? I mean, can't the cyclist read the big signs on the backs of the buses which says they have right of way and you have to give way to them?

Cyclist charged with attacking Brisbane bus driver at depot (https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/bus-driver-allegedly-attacked-at-brisbane-depot-20170830-p4yvn1.html)

[Chops]

It was the cyclists 🚴 fault 🙄




Exit stage left 😏

[101RRS]

Seriously? I mean, can't the cyclist read the big signs on the backs of the buses which says they have right of way and you have to give way to them?

There is nothing in that report that says the cyclist did not give way to the bus - incorrect statement. From that report it would seem the bus overtook the cyclist on the road and cut in, in front of the cyclist so from a road incident aspect the bus drivers fault for not being well clear of the cyclist when moving left after overtaking the cyclist. So I hope the bus driver is charged for this.

However this does not excuse the actions of the cyclist.

Garry

[V8Ian]

At this stage there's no evidence to say who, if anyone was cut-off. Police are investigating and will no doubt review camera footage from the bus and the bike, if there is any. Until the information is made public, any speculative comments are merely jumping to conclusions.

[sam_d]

At this stage there's no evidence to say who, if anyone was cut-off. Police are investigating and will no doubt review camera footage from the bus and the bike, if there is any. Until the information is made public, any speculative comments are merely jumping to conclusions.

I think you're being a bit too reasonable and level headed here. Isn't the whole point of putting this kind of thing on the internet meant to be a chance for people to hate on cyclists regardless of the facts? :wasntme:

[DiscoMick]

We certainly haven't heard the whole story.
What we have heard is the driver's union's claim the cyclist cut in front of the bus. That seems a pretty suicidal thing to do.
The law says buses have right of way. Bus drivers have to put up with a lot of carp from passengers and motorists, so they have my sympathy.
I have no beef about cyclists, but I have certainly seen some do pretty dumb things. Mind you, I've also seen motorists charge into cyclists, so it goes both ways.

[VladTepes]

Whatever the case no excuse for that cyclist to act that way. Bloody cyclists !

Of course if he'd been a MOTORcyclist I'd be on his side... [biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

I can certainly understand people getting cranky if they think someone has deliberately tried to run them down, but the correct response is to take their details, go to the police and make a formal complaint, not to attack someone.
There is far too much thoughtless road rage in this country. People need to chill out.

[austastar]

Hi,
And run a Go Pro?

Cheers

[rangieman]

Wow this happens in Qld really [bighmmm]

[trog]

I wish I could find the article on Australia and its reputation as a seriously cycling unfriendly nation , in part to attitudes of motorist and helmet laws. Interesting to see in Japan not one instance of animosity , or the fact that many rode with a child on the front and back , all without helmets. I certainly felt safer on the streets of Tokyo than here in my own suburb .

[Ausfree]

As a bus driver, all I can say is thank God for the CCTV cameras that are mounted both inside and outside of the modern bus. They have supported my side of the argument with motorists on two occasions, when false accusations where made against me. If ever there is a major incident, company management "pull" the hard drive to review what has happened.

[Mick_Marsh]

I wish I could find the article on Australia and its reputation as a seriously cycling unfriendly nation , in part to attitudes of motorist and helmet laws. Interesting to see in Japan not one instance of animosity , or the fact that many rode with a child on the front and back , all without helmets. I certainly felt safer on the streets of Tokyo than here in my own suburb .
I certainly agree with you about the cycling laws. Way to many of them.
It has been legislated (except Victoria) to be nice to cyclists (the 1m rule), and they still think it their right to be aggressive.

[AndyG]

I wish road trains had a 1m rule for Defenders[wink11]

I have nothing but respect for those moving the nation

[trog]

I wonder how many kids ride to school these days , or the number of bikes gathering dust ? I miss the ability to just hop on , trundle to the shops or just to have a look around , without the need for body and head armour , lights ,rego ,insurances and all the things getting out of the car should be.
Interesting how things are somewhat free and easy in Byron bay re helmets ?

[Saitch]

I wonder how many kids ride to school these days , or the number of bikes gathering dust ? I miss the ability to just hop on , trundle to the shops or just to have a look around , without the need for body and head armour , lights ,rego ,insurances and all the things getting out of the car should be.
Interesting how things are somewhat free and easy in Byron bay re helmets ?

I just had a bit of a scare. I was just about to picture you in Lycra, mate, but thought better of it [biggrin]
Steve

[trog]

Not too likely , may be a black t shirt and a pair of strides or the like. Cup holder for my beer and an ashtray for my jazz cigarettes 😈

[V8Ian]

I just had a bit of a scare. I was just about to picture you in Lycra, mate, but thought better of it [biggrin]
Steve
Do they make lycra in XXXM? [bigwhistle]

[Chops]

Do they make lycra in XXXM? [bigwhistle]


That's the same size that you own up there isn't it Ian,,, [tonguewink]

[V8Ian]

That's the same size that you own up there isn't it Ian,,, [tonguewink]No mate, XXXL. :ohyes: Ask Mick_Marsh or Digger.

[V8Ian]

Bloody bus drivers! Had one hit my mirror today, that's two hits in a week! My car was pristine, not even a lantana scratch on it. [bawl]

[Chops]

I'll be having dinner with young Mr Micky Marsh tomorrow night too,,, God I hope he's not wearing his [bighmmm]

[V8Ian]

I'll be having dinner with young Mr Micky Marsh tomorrow night too,,, God I hope he's not wearing his [bighmmm]
Do you prefer him in his mankini? [bigrolf]

[trog]

Bloody bus drivers! Had one hit my mirror today, that's two hits in a week! My car was pristine, not even a lantana scratch on it. [bawl]

Not the HSE !
Time to round up these infidels

[Chops]

Do you prefer him in his mankini? [bigrolf]

He could be in either :eek2:

[V8Ian]

He could be in either :eek2:
:ttiwwp:

[Mick_Marsh]

Won't be wearing the mankini. They refused me entry last time. Something to do with not having a collar.

I was wearing my good sandals and long socks.

Lycra! one size fits all, isn't it?

[cuppabillytea]

Won't be wearing the mankini. They refused me entry last time. Something to do with not having a collar.

I was wearing my good sandals and long socks.

Lycra! one size fits all, isn't it?

Yes Lycra is one side fits all. So on Ian or Chops for that matter, it would look like Fish Net. [bigsmile]

[Chops]

:ttiwwp:


ummm,,, dude,, thats sad,,, I can't believe you want to put someones camera through that,,, [bighmmm]

It would be hard enough trying to lose the burnt image in the eye's.

[Chops]

Yes Lycra is one side fits all. So on Ian or Chops for that matter, it would look like Fish Net. [bigsmile]


The little bubbles of fat trying to escape,,, [bigwhistle]




and then they always seem to bend over,,, :toilet:

thanks for the reminder Billy :bat:

[cuppabillytea]

The little bubbles of fat trying to escape,,, [bigwhistle]




and then they always seem to bend over,,, :toilet:

thanks for the reminder Billy :bat:

You're welcome Markus. A little bit of Character building for you.[wink11]

[Sitec]

It's good to see that no one is pointing the finger here.. There are that many muppets on the road at the moment who can't merge, don't know how to use a roundabout, sit in the outside lane, don't know how to ride properly etc etc.. The list goes on! But, there is always angst towards cyclists. I have had several heated arguments with 1 member of the fire brigade I am a Lieutenant in, about cyclists, side by side riding and 'road ownership' etc.. Neither of us were prepared to back down. This all changed last year when the pager dropped and we got a call out to a Road Crash Rescue right on the edge of our response zone. It was a daytime callout, so I was the appliance driver that day. As the crews arrived, so did the friend I'd being arguing with about cyclists and other road users. Being the only Lieui in the station I allocated the crews, and placed my cycling friend as 'Officer in charge' with prime position in the front left seat (much to her disgust). We set off with 13 tonnes of truck driving Priority 1, so with speeds in excess of the signed limits, and here's where the penny dropped with my Officer in charge.. She very quickly said "it's a very different view up here at this speed". Sure enough within a few kms of responding we came upon a group of 4 cyclists riding 2 abreast on a road lined with Armco. I had to put the truck on completely the wrong side of the road to give them 'safe passing distance', in a position I don't deem safe. I'm just glad there was not a loaded semi coming down the hill in the other direction. Now some of you will throw in that I should be driving 'to the conditions' etc etc. I believe I was and do every time. Trying to keep a laden fire truck moving up hill at enough speed to make it to the incident in sensible time means using as much of the road as you can safely do so, whilst keeping it moving as fast as you safely can. Why the cyclist couldn't hear me, or chose not to move over is beyond me. We (the crew) then had a discussion on the way back to the station, about the situation, and all came to the conclusion that it should be law to ride in single file only (which I don't think is an unfair ask). This then gives enough room for two trucks to pass and usually leaves enough room for a cyclist (who I should add has every right to be there) to enjoy the road and surroundings. So, here's an idea.. If every bicycle had a registration plate - some form of identification, then I think most of the 'angst' would go away.. The motorists who do as they should would carry on as normal, passing cyclists with plenty of room, the cyclists who understand that they are very vulnerable, ride in single file and understand that some areas are very restrictive to ride through. They also have an identify-able number (as does every other vehicle that uses the road). Then when something like the incident this thread is about happens, then both vehicles are identifiable and whoever is in the wrong be it bus driver or cyclist accepts the penalty. There does not necessarily need to be a yearly charge, but perhaps a purchase price for the initial plate purchase so the rider gets added to the database.. (Those who own cars could have a plate that's linked to an existing car or similar).. It's just an idea/suggestion, so I'm not looking for an argument. It should also be noted that myself and fellow crew member agree now, and have not had a heated discussion since!! :)

[DiscoMick]

Would the bicycle or rider be registered?

[Sitec]

Would the bicycle or rider be registered?

The bike, same as a motorbike, car, truck, tractor, trailer etc etc. Even if the rider does not own the cycle, the person who does would know who they have leant it to... :)

[trog]

Don't see too many other countries doing this , at least as far as google searches , nor do many others fine for not wearing a helmet . Did notice recently while away the bikes did have a registration tag. About the the size big enough to have a bar code. Often saw inspectors checking them in bike parking lots .
Recently I have seen plenty written on the demise of kids riding to school and the tie in to later obesity , the extra land needed just to build car parks at shopping areas to cater for those who only drive etc. Time to ditch the current mentality and see how the rest of the world deals with multi vehicle road users. Interesting I just remembered reading how neither Arnie S has been caught a few times in Aus riding helmetless. Got off with a caution.

[4range]

It's good to see that no one is pointing the finger here.. There are that many muppets on the road at the moment who can't merge, don't know how to use a roundabout, sit in the outside lane, don't know how to ride properly etc etc.. The list goes on! But, there is always angst towards cyclists. I have had several heated arguments with 1 member of the fire brigade I am a Lieutenant in, about cyclists, side by side riding and 'road ownership' etc.. Neither of us were prepared to back down. This all changed last year when the pager dropped and we got a call out to a Road Crash Rescue right on the edge of our response zone. It was a daytime callout, so I was the appliance driver that day. As the crews arrived, so did the friend I'd being arguing with about cyclists and other road users. Being the only Lieui in the station I allocated the crews, and placed my cycling friend as 'Officer in charge' with prime position in the front left seat (much to her disgust). We set off with 13 tonnes of truck driving Priority 1, so with speeds in excess of the signed limits, and here's where the penny dropped with my Officer in charge.. She very quickly said "it's a very different view up here at this speed". Sure enough within a few kms of responding we came upon a group of 4 cyclists riding 2 abreast on a road lined with Armco. I had to put the truck on completely the wrong side of the road to give them 'safe passing distance', in a position I don't deem safe. I'm just glad there was not a loaded semi coming down the hill in the other direction. Now some of you will throw in that I should be driving 'to the conditions' etc etc. I believe I was and do every time. Trying to keep a laden fire truck moving up hill at enough speed to make it to the incident in sensible time means using as much of the road as you can safely do so, whilst keeping it moving as fast as you safely can. Why the cyclist couldn't hear me, or chose not to move over is beyond me. We (the crew) then had a discussion on the way back to the station, about the situation, and all came to the conclusion that it should be law to ride in single file only (which I don't think is an unfair ask). This then gives enough room for two trucks to pass and usually leaves enough room for a cyclist (who I should add has every right to be there) to enjoy the road and surroundings. So, here's an idea.. If every bicycle had a registration plate - some form of identification, then I think most of the 'angst' would go away.. The motorists who do as they should would carry on as normal, passing cyclists with plenty of room, the cyclists who understand that they are very vulnerable, ride in single file and understand that some areas are very restrictive to ride through. They also have an identify-able number (as does every other vehicle that uses the road). Then when something like the incident this thread is about happens, then both vehicles are identifiable and whoever is in the wrong be it bus driver or cyclist accepts the penalty. There does not necessarily need to be a yearly charge, but perhaps a purchase price for the initial plate purchase so the rider gets added to the database.. (Those who own cars could have a plate that's linked to an existing car or similar).. It's just an idea/suggestion, so I'm not looking for an argument. It should also be noted that myself and fellow crew member agree now, and have not had a heated discussion since!! :)


With all due respect (noting that I believe the cyclists should have formed single file - based on the information you have given), why is it different to passing a slow car or another slow truck ?

I don't believe it would be any safer passing another vehicle with less than a meter to spare.

perhaps the only difference is that a person in a vehicle is more likely to survive being hit, than a cyclist, if it all goes wrong during the overtake.

my 2 cents

[weeds]

It's good to see that no one is pointing the finger here.. There are that many muppets on the road at the moment who can't merge, don't know how to use a roundabout, sit in the outside lane, don't know how to ride properly etc etc.. The list goes on! But, there is always angst towards cyclists. I have had several heated arguments with 1 member of the fire brigade I am a Lieutenant in, about cyclists, side by side riding and 'road ownership' etc.. Neither of us were prepared to back down. This all changed last year when the pager dropped and we got a call out to a Road Crash Rescue right on the edge of our response zone. It was a daytime callout, so I was the appliance driver that day. As the crews arrived, so did the friend I'd being arguing with about cyclists and other road users. Being the only Lieui in the station I allocated the crews, and placed my cycling friend as 'Officer in charge' with prime position in the front left seat (much to her disgust). We set off with 13 tonnes of truck driving Priority 1, so with speeds in excess of the signed limits, and here's where the penny dropped with my Officer in charge.. She very quickly said "it's a very different view up here at this speed". Sure enough within a few kms of responding we came upon a group of 4 cyclists riding 2 abreast on a road lined with Armco. I had to put the truck on completely the wrong side of the road to give them 'safe passing distance', in a position I don't deem safe. I'm just glad there was not a loaded semi coming down the hill in the other direction. Now some of you will throw in that I should be driving 'to the conditions' etc etc. I believe I was and do every time. Trying to keep a laden fire truck moving up hill at enough speed to make it to the incident in sensible time means using as much of the road as you can safely do so, whilst keeping it moving as fast as you safely can. Why the cyclist couldn't hear me, or chose not to move over is beyond me. We (the crew) then had a discussion on the way back to the station, about the situation, and all came to the conclusion that it should be law to ride in single file only (which I don't think is an unfair ask). This then gives enough room for two trucks to pass and usually leaves enough room for a cyclist (who I should add has every right to be there) to enjoy the road and surroundings. So, here's an idea.. If every bicycle had a registration plate - some form of identification, then I think most of the 'angst' would go away.. The motorists who do as they should would carry on as normal, passing cyclists with plenty of room, the cyclists who understand that they are very vulnerable, ride in single file and understand that some areas are very restrictive to ride through. They also have an identify-able number (as does every other vehicle that uses the road). Then when something like the incident this thread is about happens, then both vehicles are identifiable and whoever is in the wrong be it bus driver or cyclist accepts the penalty. There does not necessarily need to be a yearly charge, but perhaps a purchase price for the initial plate purchase so the rider gets added to the database.. (Those who own cars could have a plate that's linked to an existing car or similar).. It's just an idea/suggestion, so I'm not looking for an argument. It should also be noted that myself and fellow crew member agree now, and have not had a heated discussion since!! :)

I'm a bike rider and in the event you explained above wife and she would have been in single file and would have move to the left as much as possible......

Although it's hard to believe you put your crew in danger by crossing to the wrong side of the road without knowing what was coming......imagine if a truck was coming the other way glad it's you explaining it...if you survived that is.

Re: rego plates...if it ever come in which I highly doubt it I would comply because it the law but would prefer one plate that can be transferred between bikes as wife and I both have three bikes each.

[pop058]

I'm a bike rider and in the event you explained above wife and she would have been in single file and would have move to the left as much as possible......

Although it's hard to believe you put your crew in danger by crossing to the wrong side of the road without knowing what was coming......imagine if a truck was coming the other way glad it's you explaining it...if you survived that is.

Re: rego plates...if it ever come in which I highly doubt it I would comply because it the law but would prefer one plate that can be transferred between bikes as wife and I both have three bikes each.

Between the wife and I we have more than 3 vehicles each and although we can only use one at a time, all of them are required to be individually registered. Not arguing the toss one way or the other, just am of the opinion it should be a consistent and level playing field for all users.

[Mick_Marsh]

Between the wife and I we have more than 3 vehicles each and although we can only use one at a time, all of them are required to be individually registered. Not arguing the toss one way or the other, just am of the opinion it should be a consistent and level playing field for all users.
If I had one plate to swap within my fleet, that would save me a motza!
What a great idea.

[weeds]

I was against the 1m rule as it had caused more against between rider and car

Registering bikes will again increase the divide.

The number of bikes on the rode is small compared to cars, trucks etc

Government are already broke, adding more administration won't help as it would take years too implement and cost 100's millions.

Oh my vote is your licence to say cost $1000/year and you can drive/ride any any more of transport so long as it's insured and your deemed competent

[Mick_Marsh]

Oh my vote is your licence to say cost $1000/year and you can drive/ride any any more of transport so long as it's insured and your deemed competent
Hell, yeah!

I'd get me one of these to take out the little lady.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/83.jpg

And the powerful highway cruiser when I'm on a hoon.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/84.jpg

[vnx205]

... ... ..

Oh my vote is your licence to say cost $1000/year and you can drive/ride any any more of transport so long as it's insured and your deemed competent

There is a school of thought that says fixed costs (rego, licence etc) should be low and running costs should be high so that here is some incentive to ride or walk rather than use the car.

[pop058]

I was against the 1m rule as it had caused more against between rider and car

Registering bikes will again increase the divide.

The number of bikes on the rode is small compared to cars, trucks etc

Government are already broke, adding more administration won't help as it would take years too implement and cost 100's millions.

Oh my vote is your licence to say cost $1000/year and you can drive/ride any any more of transport so long as it's insured and your deemed competent

On the contrary, given the number of cars on the road is large compared to bikes, I would have thought the idea would appeal to the (significant) majority and therefore decrease the divide.

[trog]

What us the opinion of things re bikes for our non Australian based members. How are things done differently in your locales ? What makes things so special here ?

[V8Ian]

129014

[Sitec]

With all due respect (noting that I believe the cyclists should have formed single file - based on the information you have given), why is it different to passing a slow car or another slow truck ?

I don't believe it would be any safer passing another vehicle with less than a meter to spare.

perhaps the only difference is that a person in a vehicle is more likely to survive being hit, than a cyclist, if it all goes wrong during the overtake.

my 2 cents

The slow car or slow truck would be going faster than the cyclists, and are a lot more visible..

Passing a vehicle with less than a meter to spare is never good, but at least the occupants are in a safe solid vehicle. They'd also be traveling quite a bit faster.

That 'only difference' is a big difference. Having to make the decision to avoid a group of cyclists or oncoming traffic is a decision I hope I never have to face.

[Sitec]

I'm a bike rider and in the event you explained above wife and she would have been in single file and would have move to the left as much as possible......

Although it's hard to believe you put your crew in danger by crossing to the wrong side of the road without knowing what was coming......imagine if a truck was coming the other way glad it's you explaining it...if you survived that is.

Re: rego plates...if it ever come in which I highly doubt it I would comply because it the law but would prefer one plate that can be transferred between bikes as wife and I both have three bikes each.

Which is all anyone can ask. Being in single file on a narrow single carriageway road and having a meter between you and a passing vehicle usually puts that vehicle only just on the white line, leaving the oncoming carriageway clear for oncoming traffic to pass by.

Re the danger, I never like being over the white line when responding unless I can clearly see for a decent distance. When coming upon 4 cycles riding up a hill side by side taking up roughly a car sized space traveling at approx 8 to 10 kmh, the only option is to cross the line or stop.

Re Rego/ID plates, a transferable plate would work. It's just a case of having something to be identified by.

[Sitec]

I was against the 1m rule as it had caused more against between rider and car

Registering bikes will again increase the divide.

The number of bikes on the rode is small compared to cars, trucks etc

Government are already broke, adding more administration won't help as it would take years too implement and cost 100's millions.

Oh my vote is your licence to say cost $1000/year and you can drive/ride any any more of transport so long as it's insured and your deemed competent

Agreed the 1m rule has caused more angst, but only for the motorists who have to deal with the few cyclists who seem to wave a 1m stick around. Most couldn't care and it does make motorists make a point to look, slow and pass safely. As for registering bikes increasing the divide, if there's little or no cost involved then those who obey the law probably wouldn't care either. As someone said before, I think it would level the playing field and help cause less angst.

[bee utey]

Agreed the 1m rule has caused more angst, but only for the motorists who have to deal with the few cyclists who seem to wave a 1m stick around. Most couldn't care and it does make motorists make a point to look, slow and pass safely. As for registering bikes increasing the divide, if there's little or no cost involved then those who obey the law probably wouldn't care either. As someone said before, I think it would level the playing field and help cause less angst.

How big would a number plate be to be able to be read from any significant distance? Would it need a white light at night? How would you mount a readable plate to a light weight road bike? Would the police care less that yet another aggrieved motorist reported a cyclist for bad riding? Why does no other civilised country have a bike registration scheme? Would Australia like to risk once again being known as the nanny state from hell re cycling? Would the young tourists go elsewhere? All serious questions regarding the complexity of introducing yet another level of bureaucracy to our roads.

I can see the possible value in fitting every bike with a GPS tracker, then only the owners and the relevant authorities can access location data. Then the data can be analysed by the police if there is indeed a road incident worth investigating. "Angry Joe Public" reporting every bike plate he can record would drive a desk copper round the twist.

Oh and the 1 metre rule, as a both cyclist and motorist I don't have any problem with it. It sure helps keep things polite.

[trog]

The opinion I have formed from both riding a about , and reading on various media , is that cycling is not wanted here. As no other overseas member has posted about the need for helmets , registration , number plates , that it is only a problem here .

[3toes]

Mandatory cycle helmet laws are raised here in the UK on a regular basis. They are supported by the doctors association however are rejected by the cyclists associations as a restriction of their freedoms and what they see as the expected reduction in cycling if you had to have a helmet

Registering cycles is also seen as something the government would like to do at least for 'professional' cyclists however this meets the same opposition and has not proceeded. Professional cyclists are seen as an issue as they have a reputation for not following road rules resulting in accidents. The cyclists have countered with seeking a law to make cars always at fault if they are in an accident with a cyclist. No traction from government on this one yet

There was a recent court case here in the UK where the police went for manslaughter where a 'professional' cyclist hit and killed a pedestrian. Was a conviction however not manslaughter. Was thought if the police had managed to obtain the manslaughter charge would have been a precedent. There is now a push to have cyclists law brought into line with the road traffic act

[donh54]

They should be registered, and subject to random swabs for caffeine abuse. They're such cranky beggars, i think it's all in the coffee!
/tongue-in-cheek

[RHS58]

I cycle and I drive.
I have several bikes and several vehicles.

Overtaking a group of cyclists can be a challenge.
When cycling in a group of say 12-15, and a vehicle wants to pass us, we generally bunch up close and tight 2 abreast if the conditions allow. Other times eg a narrow road, we go single file.
The idea being the vehicle will take less time to pass a group bunched 2 wide and 7 long, than 1 wide and 14 long.
We always cycle politely with awareness of the traffic around us.
i know others don't.

Same with vehicle drivers. Most are polite and share the road. A few don't.

its the minority on both sides that create all the angst.


I can't envisage how mandatory registration of bicycles will work.
Nor can I see it happening.

[DiscoMick]

As the saying goes, if cycling is so good for us, why do cyclists usually look so miserable?

[AdrianS]

There have been a couple of incidents of cyclist v bus in Perth one where the cyclist rode into the back of the stationary bus with no helmet on. Somthing I noticed in these and other incidents was that the cyclist was dressed in black or dark clothing with a dark bike, they are hard enough to keep track of when they get outside of your direct line of sight so why make it harder especially in poor light? Maybe making it manditory for high vis clothing and lights could save some of these accidents it's about safety not fashion.

[4range]

The slow car or slow truck would be going faster than the cyclists, and are a lot more visible..

Passing a vehicle with less than a meter to spare is never good, but at least the occupants are in a safe solid vehicle. They'd also be traveling quite a bit faster.

That 'only difference' is a big difference. Having to make the decision to avoid a group of cyclists or oncoming traffic is a decision I hope I never have to face.

I think your comments are reflective of the thought process of a large proportion of drivers. I don't believe that it is a good attitude, for a number of reasons - it indicates a tendency to take risks at the expense of others - ( by the way I am far from "holier than thou" & have made my share of poor decisions - just able to better analyse now).

What would the outcome be if:

There was a clear lane to use (even if it was the other side of the road)?

There was oncoming traffic & you used your judgement, when approaching the traffic on your side of the road, to adjust your speed accordingly so that you could make a safe pass?

There was oncoming traffic & you squeezed past between the other vehicles with less than a meter & clipped the oncoming traffic?

There was oncoming traffic & you squeezed past between the other vehicles with less than a meter & clipped the vehicle you where passing, spinning them into the oncoming traffic / armco?

There was oncoming traffic & you squeezed past between the people on the bikes with less than a meter & clipped them or caused them to hit the Armco due to the air turbulence as you passed?

In my closing note, I would have to say that if you were ever in that situation, I hope that you would choose to protect the lives of the other road users as well as your own / family /crew.

[Mick_Marsh]

I think your comments are reflective of the thought process of a large proportion of drivers. I don't believe that it is a good attitude, for a number of reasons - it indicates a tendency to take risks at the expense of others - ( by the way I am far from "holier than thou" & have made my share of poor decisions - just able to better analyse now).

What would the outcome be if:

There was a clear lane to use (even if it was the other side of the road)?

There was oncoming traffic & you used your judgement, when approaching the traffic on your side of the road, to adjust your speed accordingly so that you could make a safe pass?

There was oncoming traffic & you squeezed past between the other vehicles with less than a meter & clipped the oncoming traffic?

There was oncoming traffic & you squeezed past between the other vehicles with less than a meter & clipped the vehicle you where passing, spinning them into the oncoming traffic / armco?

There was oncoming traffic & you squeezed past between the people on the bikes with less than a meter & clipped them or caused them to hit the Armco due to the air turbulence as you passed?

In my closing note, I would have to say that if you were ever in that situation, I hope that you would choose to protect the lives of the other road users as well as your own / family /crew.
You do realize he was driving an emergency vehicle with lights and sirens. If I was in a car, I'd be off the road. If I was on a bike, I'd be off the road. I think there is a law about that.

[bee utey]

As the saying goes, if cycling is so good for us, why do cyclists usually look so miserable?

They're singing on the inside. :tease:

[SBD4]

With all due respect (noting that I believe the cyclists should have formed single file - based on the information you have given), why is it different to passing a slow car or another slow truck ?

I don't believe it would be any safer passing another vehicle with less than a meter to spare.

perhaps the only difference is that a person in a vehicle is more likely to survive being hit, than a cyclist, if it all goes wrong during the overtake.

my 2 cents
Emergency vehicle under lights and siren = get the hell out of the way no matter what the mode of transportation and ironically would be easiest to do by a cyclist. As pointed out already, a car or a truck can go much faster than a bicycle. (also noting that I believe in equal road rights for all)

[4range]

You do realize he was driving an emergency vehicle with lights and sirens. If I was in a car, I'd be off the road. If I was on a bike, I'd be off the road. I think there is a law about that.

Absolutely.

I would also be over as far as I could whether riding a pushbike, motorbike or driving a car or truck.

The original post describes a particular set of circumstances.

I just think that if it was a B double/ truck & dog or a small vehicle towing a van up the hill with no space to really move over, would you try to squeeze? would you take the risk that there may be another vehicle coming the other way that you cant see? there by endangering more lives?

I think that driving under lights & sirens would sharpen the senses somewhat & that focus on the road/ circumstance ahead would be heightened - sharpening judgement of vehicle speeds of those ahead.

Granted, by the description, the cyclists were selfish / ignorant.

We see car/van/ truck drivers acting similarly every day. People make poor decisions. (I include myself in that).

I think that to indicate that the appliance driver was forced into a risky decision because of the cyclists, is open to question.

[Chops]

I don't understand, if sirens are coming up behind, common sense should also tell you, if you are approaching a blind corner, then stop well before it so when they pass, they "can"'see clearly what's coming.

[donh54]

I don't understand, if sirens are coming up behind, common sense should also tell you, if you are approaching a blind corner, then stop well before it so when they pass, they "can"'see clearly what's coming.

Sadly, common sense just ain't that common anymore!

[AndyG]

Driving down the Gregory development rd, quite narrow, i met a oncoming escort vehicle, followed by an escort police car, i decided a wee stop was overdue so got off the road,. A bit of courtesy and common sense works with all road users regardless of size

[trout1105]

If there is a Police escort attached to an oversized load then I think that it is Mandatory to pull up Off the road.

[weeds]

If there is a Police escort attached to an oversized load then I think that it is Mandatory to pull up Off the road.

Serious.....I have never stopped....I do back of on the speed quite a bit as police escorts generally means very wide, cannot remember what width required police escort.

My last trip to miles I come across two police escorted loaded and there was plenty of room to move to the but keep rolling. Obviously if its tight than you pull up. The police certainly don't make you stop.

[trout1105]

Here in the West there is quite a lot of giant mining machinery on the Great Northern highway and very often these loads take up the entire blacktop area and if they had to pull off the road because some clown decided that there was no need to pull off the road then there would be every chance that they could loose their load and get injured or even killed in the process.
Think 200 tone haul truck tray and you will understand.

[V8Ian]

Serious.....I have never stopped....I do back of on the speed quite a bit as police escorts generally means very wide, cannot remember what width required police escort.
4.5 metres.

[donh54]

If there is a Police escort attached to an oversized load then I think that it is Mandatory to pull up Off the road.

From 2.5m (standard truck width) to 3.5m, no escort required. 3.5 to 4.5m, one escort. Over 4.5m, police and escorts.

On a standard road the width of each lane is 3.5m. How far the truck can move over depends on the wheelbase of the trailer. Platforms or axle-wideners can be up to 4.5m at the wheels, that means if he's running on the fog line, his outside wheels could be a metre into your lane. That's not including the load!

A uhf radio on channel 40 (29 on the Pacific Highway) you'll generally hear the pilot calling before you see them.

[trout1105]

A uhf radio on channel 40 (29 on the Pacific Highway) you'll generally hear the pilot calling before you see them.

I usually have my main UHF on my "Chat" cannel and my hand held on channel 40 (Truckies cannel) here in the West.
Very handy especially in the rain because you cannot see up the road behind a roadtrain when it is raining and Most truckies will oblige and let you know when it is safe to overtake.
With these big oversize loads there is plenty of chatter on chan40, So you get plenty of warning that it is there.

[BMKal]

From 2.5m (standard truck width) to 3.5m, no escort required. 3.5 to 4.5m, one escort. Over 4.5m, police and escorts.

On a standard road the width of each lane is 3.5m. How far the truck can move over depends on the wheelbase of the trailer. Platforms or axle-wideners can be up to 4.5m at the wheels, that means if he's running on the fog line, his outside wheels could be a metre into your lane. That's not including the load!

A uhf radio on channel 40 (29 on the Pacific Highway) you'll generally hear the pilot calling before you see them.

In WA, you don't need a Police or Main Roads escort vehicle unless the load is more than 5.5m wide or longer than 40m in length (except for on certain sections of road in the metro area). So if you see a pilot vehicle followed by either a Police escort or a WA Main Roads escort, it's a safe bet you'd better get off the road. The Police escorts at least will drive on the wrong side of the road and run you off the road if needs be (not sure whether the Main Roads escorts will do the same or not - haven't had any experience with them).

[trog]

From psychotic Lycra clad non rego d and insured cyclists to oversize mining vehicles , shouldn't this be moved to threads that go off topic ?
By the way I never really saw any real argument as to why it is more dangerous on our roads than in any other country , and therefore the need for body armour high vis and all the other measures some call for.

[bee utey]

From psychotic Lycra clad non rego d and insured cyclists to oversize mining vehicles , shouldn't this be moved to threads that go off topic ?
By the way I never really saw any real argument as to why it is more dangerous on our roads than in any other country , and therefore the need for body armour high vis and all the other measures some call for.

1. Many devout cyclists are insured either as an extension on their house insurance or via their cycling club. When high end road bikes cost more than a good used car you understand the value of insurance against loss and damage to your stuff as well as other vehicles and people.

2. Cycling is more dangerous here than in some other countries because of the state of our road network and the attitude of its users. In Europe both motorists and cyclists are more polite and there is vastly more cycling infrastructure. People who cycle holiday in Europe then try the same in the UK remark on the deterioration in safety due to the pommy attitude, which has of course emigrated with the poms to Australia too.

[DiscoMick]

With more cyclists suffering serious injuries on the road, what can we do to ensure their safety? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-11/why-are-more-cyclists-suffering-serious-injuries-on-the-road/8886930)

[Saitch]

1. Many devout cyclists are insured either as an extension on their house insurance or via their cycling club. When high end road bikes cost more than a good used car you understand the value of insurance against loss and damage to your stuff as well as other vehicles and people.

2. Cycling is more dangerous here than in some other countries because of the state of our road network and the attitude of its users. In Europe both motorists and cyclists are more polite and there is vastly more cycling infrastructure. People who cycle holiday in Europe then try the same in the UK remark on the deterioration in safety due to the pommy attitude, which has of course emigrated with the poms to Australia too.

Fair comments.

My humble opinion is that there is a completely different mind set between Australian & Euro cyclists. Having recently travelled through France, Germany, Italy & several other countries there is a very noticeable lack of the "Lycra & Latte" cyclists that you find throughout Oz.
The big city civilian dressed cyclists, especially in Paris, are downright dangerous[bigsmile1] We were warned by several establishments we stayed at to be very aware of them. I have no beef with that because these people are using the pushies for day to day transport & ride in the city only.


From memory, we would have seen two groups of comp cyclists (Escorted) the whole trip & they were on B type roads.

Where I live, the major roads in the area are extremely hilly, well they go up mountains really, and are always in use by the Lycras, especially weekends. These roads are definitely not bicycle friendly & if any vehicle that doesn't have the oomph for a quick overtake gets behind them well, that's too bad apparently, because the cyclists will not pull over.
I'll pull over in the Disco or 'tilly to let faster vehicles past, especially motorcycles as they have a hoot on these rides, sometimes with bad consequences, sadly.

A bloke I know who works his own earthmoving show quite often has to haul these routes with his truck & dog several times a day & even though he is a soft spoken, layback type he'll tell you how time consuming it can be & very unnerving, in no uncertain terms. I know that one section can cost him nearly 20 mins if there's a big mob, sorry, peleton!

Perhaps a "Suitable for Bicycling" classification could be given to roads that meet certain bicycle safety requirements i.e road shoulder width, carriageway width, line of sight, traffic use to name a few.

I overtook several clumps of escorted comp riders a few weeks ago & each & every one moved over to single file on my approaching. How easy for them & so much safer & easier for all. I responded with a wave to each & got one or two return waves. Why can't the weekend wallies do this?

'nuff said.
Steve

[DiscoMick]

Cyclists also don't seem to be a problem in Japan although they are everywhere. Maybe we Aussies are just too aggressive.

[solmanic]

Cyclists also don't seem to be a problem in Japan although they are everywhere. Maybe we Aussies are just too aggressive.

Japan has strict liability laws which means that in the case of an incident, the motor vehicle is liable unless they can prove that they weren't negligent, didn't do it intentionally and their vehicle wasn't unroadworthy. Consequently drivers in Japan drive a lot more carefully around pedestrians & cyclists.

[trog]

Still to explain the rest of the developed world and how these countries seem to cope ?
Maybe if more kids rode to school , some might develop the mindset that " that could be my kid " .