VW ordered to set record straight.

[DiscoMick]

VW ordered to 'put the record straight' over diesel emissions upgrade Volkswagen ordered to 'put the record straight' over diesel emissions upgrade - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://ab.co/2xbjOcR) - via @abcnews

[PAT303]

Just to counter your obvious bias opinion Mick,in the latest round of real life testing, VW vehicles dropped one spot from 1st to 2nd in emission standards. Pat

[DiscoMick]

Just to counter your obvious bias opinion Mick,in the latest round of real life testing, VW vehicles dropped one spot from 1st to 2nd in emission standards. Pat
It's a court decision and I didn't comment, so how do I have 'obvious bias'?

[Homestar]

I do... [bigwhistle]

[PAT303]

It's a court decision and I didn't comment, so how do I have 'obvious bias'?

Mick,VW vehicles have been proven many many times to be the cleanest of all diesel engine vehicles on the road,but you have chosen to ignore the facts and be one a Mick crusade against VW. Just adding a further fact,VW doesn't have to come clean about anything, they have and continue to meet Australian emission standards without implementing the cheat software. Pat

[gusthedog]

My mate has had nothing but trouble with his T4 VW diesel. After issues with suspect fuel, he was offered $1200 for a $40,000 vehicle as they said that's how much the repairs would cost. Took them to VCAT and lost. Poor bugger is gutted. Still owes a heap on the car and now it's worthless.

[bee utey]

It's a court decision and I didn't comment, so how do I have 'obvious bias'?

Didn't you know, "real men"(tm) get their news and info from shouty fat men with youtube channels, not the "biased" ABC. :Rolling:

[Slunnie]

"We say you can't simply recalibrate these engines and get all the same performance and fuel economy and wear and tear on engine life, and magically achieve very different emissions outcomes," he said.

So when did a lawyer all of a sudden become and engineer? Its ironic that technology apparently never develops.

[Vern]

My mate has had nothing but trouble with his T4 VW diesel. After issues with suspect fuel, he was offered $1200 for a $40,000 vehicle as they said that's how much the repairs would cost. Took them to VCAT and lost. Poor bugger is gutted. Still owes a heap on the car and now it's worthless.Seems to happen with every brand of car!

[Vern]

I do... [bigwhistle]Same, best brand of cars we have ever owned.

[Slunnie]

Same, best brand of cars we have ever owned.

I hope so, my brother is a massive fan of Audi, a VW group brand. Looking forward to him handing down his TDV6 Q5 shortly... because I like to roll coal! :firedevil:

[ozscott]

My brother in law has a Q7 and a mate has (had until a few weeks ago a Golf) both since new. In have a mate in Germany with a new VW Van largely built where he lives (all oil burners)... Never for me. I know too much about the ownership 'experience'.

Cheers

The Shouty Fat Man is funny and makes some good points about Volks

2017 Volkswagen Don't Buy Warning | Auto Expert John Cadogan | Australia - YouTube (https://youtu.be/oHsPnUbFltc)

Bull**** Car of the Year | Auto Expert John Cadogan | Australia - YouTube (https://youtu.be/mS4DbiDYv60)

[Vern]

Ownership experience???

[ozscott]

Not a mate of a mate down the pub vern. Family and good friends with brand new vehicles and they know how to drive and look after them. And their experience is ****e. As is the VW attitude of you try and take it back. Cheers

[incisor]

my experience with the vw dealers up here was atrocious and i was glad when the vehicle was out of warranty.

couldn't fault the vehicle, was an amazing bit of kit but the dealers were well below par...

son in law just got a top of the range amorak from mob in toowoomba

he had issues he wasnt happy with after 2 weeks of ownership and i was stunned the way the dealership up there went out of their way to appease him. he is now a very happy puppy and he loves the thing. he is well aware of what happens when they go bad but is optimistic

seems experiences vary greatly...

[ozscott]

One thing LR were always good at was dealer warranty. Nothing was too much trouble generally. Cheers

Ps with LR it's not because they had more experience than VW at warranty on major items at least.

[Vern]

Not a mate of a mate down the pub vern. Family and good friends with brand new vehicles and they know how to drive and look after them. And their experience is ****e. As is the VW attitude of you try and take it back. CheersWe have never had that experience, never had dramas with the dealers, i guess it depends who you deal with.
Still the best brand cars we have owned

[ozscott]

Good to hear Vern. Cheers

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Relatives Toowoomba (6 month old)Amorak was re-traded due to build issues, They just kept saying No, go away--

as for the software,, if the patch is so good,, why wasnt it installed originally?

[ozscott]

It's very common Pedro even if there are some jems in the rough...

Cheers

[drivesafe]

Well I bought a new MY17 Tiguan in December last year. I was well aware of the emissions “scandal” and it do not make one bit of difference to me choosing the Tiguan over other makes.


Over the Christmas break, the infotainment system failed and while this did not effect the actual driving, it did mean no reverse camera and no hands free phone or system controls, like A/C.


I rang VW customer care and they went though a list of questions and then told me they would get back to me.


A short time later they rang back and asked could I take the Tig to the local VW dealer. I rang the dealership and was told the workshops were still closed but would be opened the following week and they could book me in on the Tuesday, which I did.


The very next day the infotainment system came good so as I was passing near the dealers on the Monday, I called in and explained what had happened and that there was no longer a problem and we decided there was no need to bring it in the next day. But they told me if it occurred again, don’t bother booking it in, just come straight back to the dealers and they would put it in for a service, there and then.


That’s pretty good service, especially as I didn’t buy the Tig from them.


No to how the same thing is was handled by LRA.


I paid $169,000 for my 6th new Land Rover. A Range Rover Vogue that was literally falling apart as I drove it out of the showroom.


It was supposed to have a 3 year new car warranty but when I put it in for one of it’s services, I gave the Land Rover service people a list of issues and went off shopping.


On returning to the dealers, I was informed that my RR had been serviced, but when they contacted LRA about the issues, LRA told them the issues were caused by ware and tare, and as such not covered by the new car warranty.


This was not the last service before the warranty expired, this was the 1st service and the RR was just over 3 months old. At the time, I could not effort the cost of a legal challenge. ( I can now )


It didn’t stop there. After just 18 months of owning this death traps, we decided to cut our losses and sell the heap.


The 18 month old RR with no modifications, had so many manufacturing fault, it could not pass a roadworthy inspection. Land Rover had literally sold us an unroadworthy vehicle. Our Range Rover should never have been allowed on a public street.


So while a few of you may think VW warranty is crap, from personal experience ( and now with a huge amount of feedback from many other disgruntled LR owners ) VW’s actions are novice compared to how LRA screws their customers, and note, LRA is still screwing over their customers.

[DiscoMick]

Certainly very mixed experiences here. Many of those experiences do not seem to relate directly to the issue in the story I posted.
As I understand the original story I posted (say if you disagree), it was alleged that VW had told customers the federal government department had said things about the software update which the department denied having said, one being that the update would not affect fuel consumption. The department told the court it did not say the update would not affect fuel consumption, that was a claim made by VW, apparently. That was the record the judge ordered be set straight by VW.

Personally, I'm not biased against VW in particular, contrary to what has been claimed, and we even considered buying a Polo but eventually decided the Mazda 2 offered a better deal. But I admit I am biased against any company which deliberately configures its vehicles to cheat the emissions rules, because more people die from vehicle emissions than from road crashes, so I support reducing the extent to which vehicles poison us. That applies to all vehicles, not just VWs. I accept other makers may have also tried to cheat the rules.

[drivesafe]

Mick, the findings do not mean VW is a dirtier vehicle than any other, it just means they got caught lying!

But then again, I think we should be building more CLEAN coal fired power stations, because it WOULD BE a cleaner WORLD environment and mean cheaper power bills!

[PAT303]

We have never had that experience, never had dramas with the dealers, i guess it depends who you deal with.
Still the best brand cars we have owned

Our first brand new car was a Polo,we had it for 10 years and the only thing that went wrong with it was one window regulator failed,and that was 10 years on Hunter Valley roads mind you.The build quality of that car was outstanding. Pat

[ozscott]

Drive safe you had a bad run. I was just saying to a mate to day that another good mate and I both bought D2's at the same time and til 190k klms nothing except mine had a spring that stuck out a little in the seat base and the seat was replaced (Not just base) without question. My mates vehicle similarly was excellent. My front springs were from a bad batch and were done at 120k klms under warranty. I also asked LR to.chanbge my security system to a different frequency due to interference from Amcal chemists and at 140k they did tbat (receiver and keys). Then again both vehicles were petrol manuals...


Cheers

[biggin]

...more people die from vehicle emissions than from road crashes...

Lips to close to the exhaust pipe?

[PAT303]

Lips to close to the exhaust pipe?

Yeh,haven't you heard, VW are responsible for all the worlds woes.I'm surprised they haven'y been linked to Toyota's run-a-way accelerator problem or Tanaka's airbag fiasco. Pat

[DiscoMick]

Ultrafine emissions. We all breathe them. 40 percent more deaths than the road toll. The facts are very clear.

Latest diesel car models remain highly polluting, tests show | Environment | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jun/23/latest-diesel-car-models-remain-highly-polluting-tests-show)

Diesel cars with highest NOX emissions revealed - do you own one of these? | Cars | Life & Style | Express.co.uk (http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/782194/diesel-car-NOX-emissions-pollution-vehicles)

Fact Check: are diesel cars really more polluting than petrol cars? - The Engineer The Engineer (https://www.theengineer.co.uk/fact-check-are-diesel-cars-really-more-polluting-than-petrol-cars/)

Vehicle Emissions | Air Pollution | City Diesel | LPG | CNG (http://www.air-quality.org.uk/26.php)

Vehicle Emissions Cause More Deaths than Road Toll (http://energy.unimelb.edu.au/news-and-events/news/vehicle-emissions-cause-40-more-deaths-than-road-toll)

Study: Air pollution causes 200,000 early deaths each year in the U.S. | MIT News (http://news.mit.edu/2013/study-air-pollution-causes-200000-early-deaths-each-year-in-the-us-0829)

Diesel fumes lead to thousands more deaths than thought | New Scientist (https://www.newscientist.com/article/2131067-diesel-fumes-lead-to-thousands-more-deaths-than-thought/)

38,000 people a year die early because of diesel emissions testing failures | Environment | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/may/15/diesel-emissions-test-scandal-causes-38000-early-deaths-year-study)

More Americans die from car pollution than car accidents — Quartz (https://qz.com/135509/more-americans-die-from-car-pollution-than-car-accidents/)

[biggin]

So exactly how many people have death certificates with cause of death as "inadvertent inhalation of vehicle emissions"?
You really need to get a grip on reality.

[bsperka]

But then again, I think we should be building more CLEAN coal fired power stations, because it WOULD BE a cleaner WORLD environment and mean cheaper power bills!

The reason coal fired power stations are currently a cheap source of power is that they are fully depreciated or nearly so. A new one will drive up the power price. If the newest technology is used, even more expensive.

[bee utey]

So exactly how many people have death certificates with cause of death as "inadvertent inhalation of vehicle emissions"?
None of course, because the medical profession doesn't use that exact language. It probably uses a dozen technical terms to describe the agonising gasping and coughing that ends up in the victims drowning in their own excreted liquids caused by exposure to excessive fine particles and oxides of nitrogen on a daily basis.


You really need to get a grip on reality.

Which is called "smog" and it affects big cities all over the world where emissions from millions of vehicles pools in the atmosphere on a daily basis. Of course if you don't live in a big city you can pretend that smog is just a funny kind of sea fog and niver hurt nobahdy.

[biggin]

Smoking or some other medical condition has no part to play in any of these cases I expect. Just smog.

[bee utey]

Smoking or some other medical condition has no part to play in any of these cases I expect. Just smog.

That's right, doctors have no way of working out their patients past history and working out what's contributing to early deaths across an entire population of people. It's like the coal miners in Queensland don't get black lung disease any more because they stopped testing for it. Oh wait, some of them still do.

Just like coal dust only kills some workers, some smokers live to 100, nitrogen oxides don't kill everyone instantly, but you would have to be an idiot to deny the link between the cause and effect over the whole population. The plural of anecdotes isn't data.

[DiscoMick]

There is no such thing as clean coal power - it doesn't exist. Even the most efficient coal plants emit twice as much as gas power plants.
Coal CEO admits that ‘clean coal’ is a myth : RenewEconomy (http://reneweconomy.com.au/coal-ceo-admits-that-clean-coal-is-a-myth-69570/)

[biggin]

That's right, doctors have no way of working out their patients past history and working out what's contributing to early deaths across an entire population of people. It's like the coal miners in Queensland don't get black lung disease any more because they stopped testing for it. Oh wait, some of them still do.

Just like coal dust only kills some workers, some smokers live to 100, nitrogen oxides don't kill everyone instantly, but you would have to be an idiot to deny the link between the cause and effect over the whole population. The plural of anecdotes isn't data.
I think you'll find "anecdotes" is already plural.
I'm glad we agree on the rest. A link is not 100% of cause. Death by car accident is 100% caused by the collision or after effects in most cases. Have you been watching Zoolander recently?


There is no such thing as clean coal power - it doesn't exist. ....
No, it doesn't. And neither does clean storage batteries. Everything is relative.

I promised myself a while ago that I wouldn't get involved in these sort of threads, yet here we are. There is no black and white to any argument, so I'll leave it at that. Apologies to the OP.[bigwhistle]

[Slunnie]

There is no such thing as clean coal power - it doesn't exist. Even the most efficient coal plants emit twice as much as gas power plants.
Coal CEO admits that ‘clean coal’ is a myth : RenewEconomy (http://reneweconomy.com.au/coal-ceo-admits-that-clean-coal-is-a-myth-69570/)

I was about to say the same. Clean coal is a massive lie marketed by those with a vested interest. The output from "clean" coal for the same output is not improved at all.

[drivesafe]

I was about to say the same. Clean coal is a massive lie marketed by those with a vested interest. The output from "clean" coal for the same output is not improved at all.
Honestly?


Clean Coal means coal fired power stations that are capable of producing more electricity with a lower emission than older type coal fired power stations.


I am quite happy to be proven wrong here but I have never seen a claim that any coal fired power station could be built that did not have some amount of emission. But there are plenty of examples where new coal fired power stations are cleaner than the older type.


How much cleaner these new stations might be is only part of the reason for building them. And will they be dearer than the older ones to run. Yep they sure will be.


But then again, if they subsidised the new coal fired power stations like they subsidise solar and wind generators, then the cost of power from new, cleaner and expensive to build coal fired power stations, per kilowatt produced would actually be less than the cost charged for power coming from older type coal fired power stations.


Not only does solar and wind generators cost far more to set up, but wind generators are incredibly expensive to maintain, so without subsidies we will be paying even higher electricity bills. And subsidising anything is just an other way of paying higher HIDDEN costs for a product.


As for getting rid of coal fired power stations, just have a look at what that has achieved for South Australia. They now have amongst the worlds most expensive electricity, yet it is the most unreliably powered state in Australia.


Both the cost of the electricity and it’s unreliable supply has driven high power users out of the state, and they are not coming to Queensland or NSW, where power is cheaper, they can’t risk the potential of these states following SA, so these companies will end up in China or India, where the electricity is cheaper, but the generation of that electricity is far dirtier than here in Australia.


So if we get sucked in by the greenies, we will loose jobs, which is a lose in taxes as well. We will loose skills because the jobs needed for the ongoing need for those skills will be gone. We will be paying even more for electricity, and in reality, we will actually be contributing, indirectly, to world pollution, not reducing it.


And not only is South Australia now a basket case because of it’s high electricity cost and because the supply is unreliable, when they can’t produce enough electricity from their greenie setup they expect the rest of Australia to make up the difference, and where does the bulk of this imported power come from. Good old coal fired power stations.

And NOTE, on a day to day basis, SA needs anything up to 95% of their power requirements to be supplied from other states.


South Australia’s CLEAN ENERGY is pure B/S.


Now look at the opinion polls in QLD. If Annastacia Palaszczuk continues to try to promote “CLEAN” power here, it is predicted this will help her to loose the next election, and she won’t stand snowball in hells chance if we get the expected power shortages they are predicting for this summer.


Because so many working people have already had enough of these power bill hikes, so as the real facts become available, I don’t think to many VOTERS will continue to back changing to greenie unreliable and expensive power.

[weeds]

Are...the world is ****ed, over populated, standard of living to high and power demand it too big. Cannot go backwards

[DiscoMick]

There are many things I could say in response to that post, but this thread is not in Current Affairs, so politics is not allowed.

I'll just make one point. All of our coal-fired power stations were originally built by state governments so they, and the Snowy Hydro scheme, were all totally taxpayer-funded. Governments only sold off the stations because they were too worn out to be worth upgrading. That's why the private operators are closing them - they're stuffed. Our power network is becoming unreliable because the coal power stations are worn out, becoming unreliable and being closed - 10 in the last decade.
I, for one, think it would be ridiculous to pour another $1 billion into keeping Liddell going for five years when it would still be totally worn out. Plus it only operates at about 40% of capacity most of the time anyway because it is so unreliable.

There are numerous alternatives, such as gas, batteries, solar and wind, which have long-term futures. Coal stations do not have a future.
Gas rather than coal would halve the emissions and we have lots of gas.
Ten of the battery banks SA is installing would provide the 1000 MW of dispatchable power ANEMO says we need.
Another way is to install smaller battery banks in every local sub-station to decentralize the supply when it is needed in local areas.
Solar and wind can keep the battery banks continuously charged through the network to draw down immediately when needed.
Buildings can have individual battery banks to power them at night. I last week had an estimate of $8-12,000 to add a battery bank to my solar system, so it is becoming more affordable all the time.
These technologies are now well-proven and they are the way of the future. They are more reliable than patching up worn out coal power stations.

Also, back on the original topic, vehicle emissions contribute to the illnesses which kill about 2000 Australians every year (more than road crashes). Obviously, illnesses can have multiple causes. My father died of lung cancer. Smoking was a factor, as was a lifetime of breathing diesel fumes from farm tractors and other machinery.

Vehicle emissions are also a major cause of global warming, which is heading for 2 degrees and probably closer to four degrees. The last time the earth was four degrees hotter there was NIL ice at the polar caps and the oceans were 80 metres higher. Think about the effects of the oceans rising 80 metres. How much of the world would be under water? How many billions of people would be forced to become refugees? How many wars would be caused? Could humanity survive?

These are big issues. Our politicians are failing to lead. We are already suffering increased natural disasters because of those failures.

Sorry to sound a bit earnest, but I'm getting jack of some people (not you) who just flatly refuse to face the facts.

[bee utey]

I'd expect that an expert on cable sizes would have some idea, but no. The Victorian interconnector can at best supply around 1/3 of SA's electricity, so the claim of 95% is pure hogwash. In fact, SA derives around 50% of its year's electricity production from wind and solar, a teensy weensy bit more than 5%.

The "clean coal" debate is about emissions reductions of 10 to 20% maximum, "slightly less dirty coal" would be a more accurate moniker. Cleanliness isn't just about visible smoke out of the stacks.

SA's energy prices are determined by big multinational retailers. When a letter from my retailer arrived stating a roughly 22% hike was imminent, I shopped around and found a retailer happy to sell at the old price with zero costs to cancel the contract in case I felt hard done by. Nothing to do with wind and solar, just corporate heroes taking the average consumers for suckers.

And this:


but wind generators are incredibly expensive to maintain

Where is the supporting evidence for that claim? It sounds like an urban myth. Coal plants have hundreds of workers per plant, gas plants have tens of workers per plant, wind has ?? workers per farm occasionally doing a little maintenance. All the wind farms I've driven past in SA are characterised by the singular lack of supporting vehicles flocking around in bunches near busy turbines. That's sparrows and crows.

[DiscoMick]

Operation and maintenance costs of wind generated power (http://www.wind-energy-the-facts.org/operation-and-maintenance-costs-of-wind-generated-power.html)

Solar Panels - Lifetime Productivity and Maintenance Costs (http://www.bostonsolar.us/solar-blog-resource-center/blog/solar-panels-lifetime-productivity-and-maintenance-costs/)

[PLR]

There are many things I could say in response to that post, but this thread is not in Current Affairs, so politics is not allowed.


Sorry to sound a bit earnest, but I'm getting jack of some people (not you) who just flatly refuse to face the facts.


G`day ,

can you explain the LR technical basis the thread exists on and why you placed it here .

[drivesafe]

Hi PLR, and does it matter?

It's still a good read!

[PLR]

Hi PLR, and does it matter?

It's still a good read!


G`day ,

the number and variety of posters would suggest not .

Good read is relative .

Appreciate your reply

[Slunnie]

Honestly?.
Hmmm, i cant find the podcast i was listening too that was talking about it. I was thinking it was Dr Karl. Another article I read suggested improvemnts of 9.9% for Australian clean coal. Its a massive polluter.

[DiscoMick]

G`day ,

can you explain the LR technical basis the thread exists on and why you placed it here .
Vehicle emissions are a technical issue. I couldn't find the original VW thread. The actual article was about a judge saying VW had misrepresented what the government authority had said about the VW software update.
The thread has gone a bit offtrack - sorry. Vehicle emissions are important for both health and climate change.

[drivesafe]

Hmmm, i cant find the podcast i was listening too that was talking about it. I was thinking it was Dr Karl. Another article I read suggested improvemnts of 9.9% for Australian clean coal. Its a massive polluter.
Hi Slunnie, about two months back, I was watching a gabfest on Skytv and Josh Frybenberg was debating with some SA minister, about the “short falls” in SA’s pathetic electricity setup.


Josh pointed out how some times SA produced much of it’s required power and on other times, worst case, they needed as much as 95% to be supplied from interstate power providers.


The SA minister didn't argue the point, nor did he have a answer when Josh asked why SA demolished their last power station when they knew that doing so would mean they could no longer meet their power requirements.


Now we all know politicians “never” lie!!!!!!!!

[drivesafe]

The thread has gone a bit offtrack - sorry. Vehicle emissions are important for both health and climate change.
Actually Mick, I'm the one who should apologies, not you.

I'm responsible for the deviation!

[PLR]

Vehicle emissions are a technical issue. I couldn't find the original VW thread. The actual article was about a judge saying VW had misrepresented what the government authority had said about the VW software update.
The thread has gone a bit offtrack - sorry. Vehicle emissions are important for both health and climate change.

G`day , thanks for your reply .

While i can`t agree with all the logic of your reply that doesn`t matter .

I`d suggest the reason for not being able to find a VW Emissions thread is because previously they have been in General Chat .

It matters even less knowing it is not of concern to others what is in Tech as i naively put an idea forward earlier in the year which made sense to none .

I was interested to know if it was mistakenly put here or not and you have kindly answered that for me .

Cheerio

[DiscoMick]

Hi Slunnie, about two months back, I was watching a gabfest on Skytv and Josh Frybenberg was debating with some SA minister, about the “short falls” in SA’s pathetic electricity setup.


Josh pointed out how some times SA produced much of it’s required power and on other times, worst case, they needed as much as 95% to be supplied from interstate power providers.


The SA minister didn't argue the point, nor did he have a answer when Josh asked why SA demolished their last power station when they knew that doing so would mean they could no longer meet their power requirements.


Now we all know politicians “never” lie!!!!!!!!
You might like to do some research and find which SA government sold their power plant. Here's a hint - that privatization was not done by the current SA government, which is trying to fix the mess it inherited.

[drivesafe]

You might like to do some research and find which SA government sold their power plant. Here's a hint - that privatization was not done by the current SA government, which is trying to fix the mess it inherited.
Hi Mick and nothing would surprise me, I don't trust any politician.

As they say, you can always tell when they are lying, their lips move.

[biggin]

There are many things I could say in response to that post, but this thread is not in Current Affairs, so politics is not allowed.

I'll just make one point. All of our coal-fired power stations were originally built by state governments so they, and the Snowy Hydro scheme, were all totally taxpayer-funded. Governments only sold off the stations because they were too worn out to be worth upgrading. That's why the private operators are closing them - they're stuffed. Our power network is becoming unreliable because the coal power stations are worn out, becoming unreliable and being closed - 10 in the last decade.
I, for one, think it would be ridiculous to pour another $1 billion into keeping Liddell going for five years when it would still be totally worn out. Plus it only operates at about 40% of capacity most of the time anyway because it is so unreliable.

There are numerous alternatives, such as gas, batteries, solar and wind, which have long-term futures. Coal stations do not have a future.
Gas rather than coal would halve the emissions and we have lots of gas.
Ten of the battery banks SA is installing would provide the 1000 MW of dispatchable power ANEMO says we need.
Another way is to install smaller battery banks in every local sub-station to decentralize the supply when it is needed in local areas.
Solar and wind can keep the battery banks continuously charged through the network to draw down immediately when needed.
Buildings can have individual battery banks to power them at night. I last week had an estimate of $8-12,000 to add a battery bank to my solar system, so it is becoming more affordable all the time.
These technologies are now well-proven and they are the way of the future. They are more reliable than patching up worn out coal power stations.

Also, back on the original topic, vehicle emissions contribute to the illnesses which kill about 2000 Australians every year (more than road crashes). Obviously, illnesses can have multiple causes. My father died of lung cancer. Smoking was a factor, as was a lifetime of breathing diesel fumes from farm tractors and other machinery.

Vehicle emissions are also a major cause of global warming, which is heading for 2 degrees and probably closer to four degrees. The last time the earth was four degrees hotter there was NIL ice at the polar caps and the oceans were 80 metres higher. Think about the effects of the oceans rising 80 metres. How much of the world would be under water? How many billions of people would be forced to become refugees? How many wars would be caused? Could humanity survive?

These are big issues. Our politicians are failing to lead. We are already suffering increased natural disasters because of those failures.

Sorry to sound a bit earnest, but I'm getting jack of some people (not you) who just flatly refuse to face the facts.
Okay, I'll say it......what absolute tripe!
Lucky there's nothing political in there.

[DiscoMick]

Why tripe?

[djam1]

Why tripe?

I think it relates to the swear filter restrictions[bighmmm]

[TJWA]

129451129452

[drivesafe]

Hi TJWA, and I love it!

That's something I could easily see me doing. [biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

I see the current 4 x 4 Australia rates the Amarok as the best 4WD ute in Australia, followed by the Ranger and way ahead of the Hilux.
A friend bought one recently and she is very happy with it.

[ozscott]

The Magazine ratings... The thing is they typically base ratings on a half day to a week tops...they don't usually live with the things for a year or more...they certainly don't rate them when they are out of warranty. I am not interested in the most grunt and best ride if the reviewed vehicle gets plagued by significant failures after a month or 2 of ownership (or a year or 2 etc). This is why I am interested in reviews but take them as a small part of the overall equation. It's like buying a boat. The reviewer raves about the ride, modern clever design and the great placement of cup holders and rod storage. It has an option of really cool vynal wraps...he loves it. He says do yourself a favour and get one. We thinks it's our blah blah boat of the year... he's not around and bleeding his own hard earned when the welds come apart or the fibreglass delaminates in 2 years of ownership. As you can tell I'm a bit over short sighted selective reviews.

Cheers