Jaguar Land Rover goes hybrid electric

[DiscoMick]

Jaguar Land Rover to make only electric or hybrid cars from 2020

Jaguar Land Rover to make only electric or hybrid cars from 2020 | Business | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/07/jaguar-land-rover-electric-hybrid-cars-2020?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard)

[cripesamighty]

That's interesting. So what does that mean for the Defender that is supposed to be coming soon to a showroom near you.....in 2020.

[bee utey]

That's interesting. So what does that mean for the Defender that is supposed to be coming soon to a showroom near you.....in 2020.

Probably the end of the multi gear transmission as we know it. One electric motor/generator combo with a modest size battery for stop start driving and regenerative braking use.

[DiscoMick]

Certainly could explain the delay in releasing a new Defender.
I'm unclear about the exact meaning myself. Does it mean no more diesels or petrols, or does it mean there will be electric versions of every vehicle?

[bee utey]

Certainly could explain the delay in releasing a new Defender.
I'm unclear about the exact meaning myself. Does it mean no more diesels or petrols, or does it mean there will be electric versions of every vehicle?

"Hybrid electric" means a fuel engine of some sort plus the electric package so I doubt that petrol and diesel engines are going to be extinct just yet.

[craig a]

I think this means all cars will have electric motor of some sort. Hybrid cars are now well develloped and work great with proven benefits complementing the combustion engine for efficiency, accelleration and braking. Electric cars are not quite there yet to make the combustion engine redundant.

[Zeros]

Thanks for the heads up Disco Mick ...exciting that the next Defender could be electric or hybrid. A 2018 Defender is looking very unlikely I reckon. It will 2020...and it will be radical. Possibly explains the delay.

[DiscoMick]

I assume they want the engine packages for LRs to be right to continue for some time and be usable across the whole JLR range so they will want to get the Defender engines right from the start.
I read the Ingenium engines are modular so I assume the 2.0 diesel will also be scaled up to 2.5 and 3.0 and packaged with an electric motor for economy.
That would also overcome the objections to electric based on long distance travel.
So there would still be high and low ranges.

[DiscoMick]

I assume they want their own family of advanced engines to pair with the electrics. They also have to meet the coming even tougher emissions rules and improve the overall fuel economy of the whole vehicle range.
Emissions are a big deal in Europe. In the UK alone, about 10,000 people a year die from causes related to vehicle emissions (in Australia it's about 2000), so that's a big deal - far more serious than road deaths. Similar situation in the USA and China, their big markets, whose governments are responding by cracking down on vehicle emissions, which is why the VW emissions scandal touched a raw nerve.
We in Australia are behind the curve on vehicle emissions, but we will be forced to follow world trends.

[SG1 Bones]

I think this means all cars will have electric motor of some sort. Hybrid cars are now well develloped and work great with proven benefits complementing the combustion engine for efficiency, accelleration and braking. Electric cars are not quite there yet to make the combustion engine redundant.



I reckon the Tesla is close. Their top model is in the top five fastest cars 0-100kph in the world, and their mileage isn't too bad either. The only problem is the Australian continent is so vast, so you couldn't drive from Brissie to the Cape but, you could drive from Melbourne to Brisbane traveling the east coast. They have an SUV already on 100% electric with 7 seats and a good towing capacity. I think they're the ones to watch. I'd still keep my SIII though cause I'd need something when there's an end world apocalypse. 🤣

Nathan.

[DiscoMick]

Queensland is installing 18 free electric charging stations up the coast, so you could go from Brisbane to Cairns OK.

Electric car owners to be able to recharge free on Queensland highway (http://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/18-electric-car-charging-stations-to-be-installed-on-queensland-highway-by-the-end-of-the-year/news-story/8446dbcf4af666a7a8a90b8ae8749e90)

[JDNSW]

Tesla is close to being a workable replacement for a normal car - except that it is far too expensive for what it offers, and by all accounts Tesla is losing money on selling them; in other words to even keep the cost as low as it is, they need to sell a lot more.

But to achieve a workable range, they have had to make maximum use of aerodynamics to achieve low drag. As soon as you raise the ground clearance to make a usable vehicle for rough roads, the increased drag drops the range, right when you need a vehicle with longer range. Add a roo bar to the front, and you drop the range more. Add four wheel drive for the sandy or muddy bits, and the increased mass drops the range again. Up the seating capacity to seven plus several hundred kilos of luggage, and your range is down to enough to just about get you out of the city. (maybe a slight exaggeration, but you get my point, I hope.

[craig a]

Add to that (as per another post) you need a ratio ten times weight of batteries to fuel to get the same range as diesel. The figures quoted by Tesla are all 'best achievable' and not what you will actually get. -a bit like internet speeds quoted. I would love a fully electric car but not at the moment.

[NavyDiver]

Great, I have time to crack 500,000 on my D3 before they arrive[biggrin] A Hybrid Deffer could be fantastic.

[trog]

We will have personal jet packs by then or maybe even teleportation by then.

[DiscoMick]

Hybrids still have an engine for when they can't run electric, so that solves the range issue.

[carjunkieanon]

We will have personal jet packs by then or maybe even teleportation by then.

He stands at the bottom of the highly technical ascent carefully studying the best line to take considering the size of the ruts, the position of the boulders, and the patches of slippery mud left after the recent rain...then teleports to the top in a split second.

Convenient, but would take some of the fun out of driving. :)

[VladTepes]

Electric motors at eac h wheel - PERFECT for off-roading esp rock climbing and such. SO much control and torque all at once.
As long as it has the ICE to get you there and back before you use said electrics - essential in Australia with our distances !

[Zeros]

Hybrids still have an engine for when they can't run electric, so that solves the range issue.

Simple. Cheers Mick.

[DiscoMick]

China looks at plans to ban petrol and diesel cars - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41218243)

China's indication to ban sale of non-electric cars a 'tipping point' for global industry - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-12/chinas-move-to-ban-sale-of-non-electric-cars-a-tipping-point/8894746)

[DiscoMick]

New 'real world' diesel tests fail to prevent rush hour pollution peak

New 'real world' diesel tests fail to prevent rush hour pollution peak | Environment | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/13/new-real-world-diesel-tests-fail-to-prevent-rush-hour-pollution-peak?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard)

[DiscoMick]

Why all the fuss about hydrogen cars? Hydrogen cars: what are they and when will we drive them? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://ab.co/2x3EHWe) - via @abcnews

[JDNSW]

Why all the fuss about hydrogen cars? Hydrogen cars: what are they and when will we drive them? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://ab.co/2x3EHWe) - via @abcnews

Like EVs, hydrogen provides a way of producing a vehicle with zero emissions at the point of use (like EVs, just how low their carbon footprint and other pollution is depends on how the hydrogen/electricity is made - in Australia, most electricity is coal fired, worldwide most hydrogen is produced from natural gas - both processes are not energy efficient).

The big advantage of hydrogen is that it removes the range and battery weight (and cost) issues that EVs have.

But instead of this it uses a gas that cannot be liquified at non-cryogenic temperatures, will leak through almost anything a the pressures needed to store a reasonable quantity, and is explosive over a very wide range of proportions when mixed with air. And unlike electricity, does not have an existing distribution network. (In theory, it could be generated on site using electricity, but this is energy inefficient compared to battery use) Also, running an IC engine on hydrogen is very inefficient compared to an EV. Fuel cells are much more efficient, but at the present are bulky and eye-wateringly expensive.

I think it may be worth noting that various European countries plus China, when planning the end of petrol and diesel cars, are talking electric not hydrogen.

I suspect that ultimately, hydrogen may find a niche for truck and bus fleets, where the vehicles can be refuelled from a central point, but I doubt there is much future for it in cars.

[muddymech]

a phev is due soon

Range Rover PHEV due this year | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2018-range-rover-plug-hybrid-spotted-testing)

[DiscoMick]

So that should fit into the new Defender.

[Zeros]

So that should fit into the new Defender.

...seems likely doesn't it. At least as an option before 2020.