Could it possibly be Hybrid?

[Bytemrk]

This asks an interesting question that is sure to horrify some....

All Land Rovers to be electric or hybrid after 2020...including new Defender? | 4x4 Practical Motoring (https://4x4.practicalmotoring.com.au/news/land-rovers-electric-hybrid-2020-including-new-defender/)


Could they possibly give us a hybrid Defender? :eek2:

[weeds]

Yep......gotta remember the new defender isn't being design for aus or africa or even overlanding. It's going to be a tough looking SUV for city streets.

Than us that want to tour with will need to somehow make it work.

[Zeros]

It's exciting that the next Defender could be electric or hybrid. A 2018 Defender is looking very unlikely I reckon. It will 2020...and it will be radical. Possibly explains the delay. We can't avoid tech advances and this would really put Land Rover at the forefront if they can use hybrid initially to solve the range issues of electric.

[TB]

Man I hope they're looking at four independent electric hub motors with what amounts to a diesel generator providing the juice. Lots of challenges there but the off-road potential is exciting. The Defender should be all about torque rather than power and electric is perfect for that. Exhibit A:

Diesel locomotive - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_locomotive#Diesel.E2.80.93electric)

[Zeros]

The intel on the next Defender that I heard today from someone at Land Rover who's had contact with someone on the inner sanctum, contradicts the 2020 hybrid notion and my post above.

...apparently the next Defender is currently being tested ...for release in mid-late 2018.

The hybrid / electric announcement is actually re all new Land Rover vehicles developed from 2020 onwards.

Which means that the 2018 Defender will most likely be ingenium diesel.

[ramblingboy42]

4x4practical motoring has nothing whatsoever to do with Land Rover , although they publish unsubstantiated rumours about Land Rover.

Land Rover have not released any information on the new defender.

[Bytemrk]

4x4practical motoring has nothing whatsoever to do with Land Rover , although they publish unsubstantiated rumours about Land Rover.

Land Rover have not released any information on the new defender.

True - no one said 4x4 Practical motoring was connected with Land Rover... however the articles author - Robert Pepper is a very well respected author, with a strong connection to Land Rover and I know for a fact he doesn't publish articles without thorough research.

Of all the stuff I see written by motoring journo's in this country - Rob is one of very few that I'd take at face value...

[Zeros]

4x4 Practical Motoring, Robert Pepper ...yes, for Land Rover vehicles designed after 2020.

[scarry]

Maybe not at release,but it will have to eventually go hybrid,cos thats the way they are all going.

You wouldn't design a completely new vehicle today and not think about going hybrid.

Even D5 has space allocated to batteries,although not yet released as hybrid.

Same as this solid axle stuff,old hat.

LR would be seen as going backwards,if they built a completely new vehicle in todays world with solid axles.

I know that would be better,in some ways,and simpler,and the purists would like it,but they seem to love to complicate things.

Just my 2 cents worth,we will have to wait and see.

[bee utey]

Interesting.

Electric cars are about to get their biggest boost ever – ThinkProgress (https://thinkprogress.org/china-plans-to-ban-new-fossil-fuel-powered-cars-3898c8236fc8/)

Thoughts?

[Zeros]

It may well happen more quickly than that... especially with hybrids ensuring good range until batteries and solar become more efficient. I can't see any reason not to embrace it.

Although I have no idea where the power is going to come from with 40 million vehicles plugged in. Nuclear or coal initially I suppose, which is concerning. Would be great to hear from someone with the knowledge about potential supply and demand metrics in the future.

Is generating enough power going to be cleaner and more efficient than fossil fuel powered vehicles?

[bee utey]

The roll out of solar, wind and storage is going fast enough now that they should cover electric vehicle power and the retirement of old coal plants. The world isn't going to 100% electric vehicles overnight, of course. Nuclear power plants take far too long to build and cost vast amounts so don't expect any to be viable for Australia, at least in the next 30 years or so.

[cripesamighty]

Unless of course you go for a Thorium plant instead. Much smaller, simpler, safer and quicker to build.

[bee utey]

Unless of course you go for a Thorium plant instead. Much smaller, simpler, safer and quicker to build.

Link please to a working thorium reactor if you would be so kind.

[cripesamighty]

I'm pretty sure they had one working in Germany for a time during the 1980'/90's as a working concept. Even though it would take development, it would be a lot easier getting that to work than the pipe dream of 'cold fusion'. Personally I can't see us getting away from our current fuels (on a mass scale) for the foreseeable future.

[TB]

Nuclear and renewables together is how we get enough clean cheap energy, quickly enough, to displace fossil fuels and stabilise the climate while supporting the developing world and maintaining a modern civilisation.

Renewables alone makes no sense. Not using renewables also makes no sense. We need well designed energy systems that take advantage of all our assets. I have a bunch of PV on my roof and I run a heat pump hot water system during the day, which means using solar energy when the sun is shining and capturing heat when there’s the most of it around. On cold grey weeks... I am very grateful to have the grid connected. My home puts into the grid more energy than it consumes (both from local PV generation and from grid, combined). But that doesn’t cover my cars, or the industries which produce the goods I buy.

There’s a huge amount of investment and engineering going into mass-produced small modular nuclear reactors in the 50-500MW range. As with everything else, scale and consistency is the key to low cost and quality. There are also larger 4th generation reactor designs that fit more directly into the existing regulatory environment and consume existing nuclear “waste” (fuel rods which have had only 2% of their energy extracted). From an engineering and technology point of view, as well as licensing and regulation, the nuclear sector is really busy right now.

I still think we’ll be using liquid fuels for off-road vehicles for a long time. Those may shift from being petrol and diesel to ammonia and dimethyl ether, both of which can be produced from non-fossil feedstocks using the heat from a nuclear reactor as the energy input.

ecomodernism.org
brightnewworld.org

[vnx205]

... .... ...
I have a bunch of PV on my roof and I run a heat pump hot water system during the day, which means using solar energy when the sun is shining and capturing heat when there’s the most of it around
... .... ..


Did you fit a timer switch for the HWS?
I planned to do the same thing so that the heat pump only operated during the day so that I could use my own electricity instead of bought electricity at night.
I asked the company that sells my heat pump HWS about that and was told that the system needed to be continuously connected and needed to come on three times a day.
I find that hard to believe. I understand that they are normally connected full time and that it might be common for them to switch on three times a day, but surely it isn't compulsory.
Maybe it was just a sales person rather than a technician who answered my email.

[DiscoMick]

I think I read somewhere that the earth receives enough energy from the sun in a day to power human civilization for a year, or something like that. We just have to get smarter at storing what we need for when the sun isn't shining.

[Pickles2]

I think I read somewhere that the earth receives enough energy from the sun in a day to power human civilization for a year, or something like that. We just have to get smarter at storing what we need for when the sun isn't shining.
You could be right, you could be wrong, I wouldn't know, but it's a fact that many things "are easier said than done",...like generating power from the sea/waves etc?
Pickles.

[TB]

Did you fit a timer switch for the HWS?

The unit I bought has an electronic timer built in. I have it set to switch on at 11AM.

Heat Pump | Hydrotherm | Hydrotherm Hot Water Systems (https://www.hydrothermhotwatersystems.com.au/)

[TB]

I think I read somewhere that the earth receives enough energy from the sun in a day to power human civilization for a year, or something like that. We just have to get smarter at storing what we need for when the sun isn't shining.

If only it were that simple. The reality of our situation is far more complex and urgent. I’m not at all opposed to solar, wind etc – we can and should use them to the maximum degree that is beneficial. But there are constraints in terms of material resources, location, build time, scalability and cost, which in the end make it impossible to meet all the goals (cheap, fast, sufficient, reliable) to solve the global challenge.

Unless we can perfect CO2 capture and disposal, the fossil fuel industry needs to shut down ASAP. The path to that point is built by renewables and nuclear in combination.

(And I do have sympathy for those whose lives are connected to the fossil fuel industry. I pay a lot of tax and I would vote for government assistance to help transition those workers and communities to something else productive. Nuclear plants could be an in-situ replacement for some existing coal burners. There’ll be lots of work in constructing and running replacement infrastructure all over the country.)

[bee utey]

Did you fit a timer switch for the HWS?
I planned to do the same thing so that the heat pump only operated during the day so that I could use my own electricity instead of bought electricity at night.
I asked the company that sells my heat pump HWS about that and was told that the system needed to be continuously connected and needed to come on three times a day.
I find that hard to believe. I understand that they are normally connected full time and that it might be common for them to switch on three times a day, but surely it isn't compulsory.
Maybe it was just a sales person rather than a technician who answered my email.

I had my sparkie fit a user programmable timer switch to my meter box so I can set the HWS to come on whenever it suits me. I have a temp readout in the laundry so I can boost it only if I need to, sometimes after a power failure. Selecting auto + on allows the HWS to stay on until the next programmed off time, no extra thought needed.

I suspect the reasoning for permanently on HWS is to prevent the water temp from dropping below around 50C at which level the water no longer kills pathogens. Monitoring does just as good a job, especially if you're not a heavy user of hot water.

[vnx205]

Thanks for that description of your setup.
I had assumed that a timer in the meter box would be simple enough. After all there used to be a timer there some years ago for the off peak HWS. A heat pump doesn't draw a lot of power (or current or whatever), so I assume a competent electrician could select a suitable timer switch.
I hadn't considered monitoring the temperature in the tank. How is that set up?
There are only two of us in the household, so we are not big users. No teenage daughters. :)

[bee utey]

I fitted one similar to this one:

DC 12V 10A Digital Temperature Controller Thermostat Control w/ Sensor Aquarium (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-12V-10A-Digital-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-Control-w-Sensor-Aquarium-/281956269355?hash=item41a5e73d2b:g:dPMAAOSwP~tW3EC K)

AC powered version of same:

220-240V Digital Temperature Controller Temp Sensor Thermostat Genuine STC-1000 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/220-240V-Digital-Temperature-Controller-Temp-Sensor-Thermostat-Genuine-STC-1000-/282460568950?hash=item41c3f63d76:g:SJoAAOSwdjNZC2W f)

putting the NTC sensor into a modified brass plug in the spare tank outlet as it has two of them. The sensor cable was extended with 2 metres of twin flex which hasn't affected the readout by any noticeable amount.

The main job of the temperature controller is to switch off the solar powered circulating pump I installed with some solar collectors that only get sun for 6 months of the year. On super hot days the panels could lift the tank temperature over 70C which is the upper limit for a glass lined steel tank so I stop the pump at 65C.

This is like the timer that I had my sparkie install:

DIN Rail Digital LCD Power Programmable Timer Time Switch Relay AC 220-240V 16A | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DIN-Rail-Digital-LCD-Power-Programmable-Timer-Time-Switch-Relay-AC-220-240V-16A-/272642112914?epid=550522421&hash=item3f7abc7d92:g:buEAAOSwkShY-97B)


Thanks for that description of your setup.
I had assumed that a timer in the meter box would be simple enough. After all there used to be a timer there some years ago for the off peak HWS. A heat pump doesn't draw a lot of power (or current or whatever), so I assume a competent electrician could select a suitable timer switch.
I hadn't considered monitoring the temperature in the tank. How is that set up?
There are only two of us in the household, so we are not big users. No teenage daughters. :)

[DiscoMick]

If only it were that simple. The reality of our situation is far more complex and urgent. I’m not at all opposed to solar, wind etc – we can and should use them to the maximum degree that is beneficial. But there are constraints in terms of material resources, location, build time, scalability and cost, which in the end make it impossible to meet all the goals (cheap, fast, sufficient, reliable) to solve the global challenge.

Unless we can perfect CO2 capture and disposal, the fossil fuel industry needs to shut down ASAP. The path to that point is built by renewables and nuclear in combination.

(And I do have sympathy for those whose lives are connected to the fossil fuel industry. I pay a lot of tax and I would vote for government assistance to help transition those workers and communities to something else productive. Nuclear plants could be an in-situ replacement for some existing coal burners. There’ll be lots of work in constructing and running replacement infrastructure all over the country.)

There is certainly enormous job creation potential in investing in new energy infrastructure for the future in this country. It is already a major growth industry, so imagine how much bigger it could be with more sympathetic rules.

[Zeros]

Thinking about this a bit further, LR are actually playing catch up with other manufacturers who already have hybrids on the street. It's a no brainer that all LR vehicles will be at least hybrid by 2020, if not fully electric.

There will be an electric Defender. ...Imagine if it is hybrid diesel with a solar skin, to charge fridge, phones etc and also trickle feed the drive batteries. Range would actually be improved by the combination of three power sources.

[incisor]

why do i hear the disney theme in the background?

[bigwhistle]

[Zeros]

why do i hear the disney theme in the background?

[bigwhistle]

...because you're a funny man! [thumbsupbig] and you know I'm right! [bigwhistle][bigsmile1]

[blackrangie]

Yes

Access Denied (https://www.motoring.com.au/new-land-rover-defender-to-go-electric-110368/)

[Zeros]

Yes

Access Denied (https://www.motoring.com.au/new-land-rover-defender-to-go-electric-110368/)

Excellent news. No wonder we haven't seen one yet.

[DiscoMick]

I guess they are very determined to sell lots of Defenders in the USA, particularly California whose state economy alone has just become larger than the UK's, now fifth largest in the world, which means they must meet California's strict emissions laws, so electric is the only option as it can never be done with diesel. That means the overall average emissions of all engines in the range must meet the standards, impossible without electric. That's why there will be an electric version of every model.

[loanrangie]

Yanks dont like small diesels so a petrol version will have to built for the US market anyway.

[Zeros]

The Australian market really is insignificant isn’t it.