S3 Swivel balls.

[whitehillbilly64]

Hi,
I have had one swivel balls blasted, is I was going to go down the repair route.
Now I am thinking of getting a good set, instead, As a lot more chrome damage than first thought.
Were is the best place to source a coupe, New or maybe S/H.
Thanks.

whitehillbilly

[Phil B]

All four x4 in Newcastle have them

[JohnboyLandy]

I was wondering about their re-chroming service : http://www.allfourx4.com.au/Rechromed-Front-Swivel-Ball-Land-Rover-Series-1-2-2A-3-539741 at $165 plus postage per swivel, that sounds quite reasonable, but then you can still buy new genuine ones from blanchards for £149.95, see Buy Swivel Housing Part 539741 Genuine (https://www.pablanchard.co.uk/shop/products/Swivel-Housing-539741-Genuine.html) Given the exchange rate, that's not bad in comparison, but postage may kill it. Of course there's also lots of third party options.

Cheers,
John

[gromit]

Genuine would be the best, but most expensive, long term option.

Re-chromed ? Depends on the company doing the chrome plating, the preparation work they do etc. etc. You need to find someone who has purchased them and has a long term experience of them on a vehicle.

Aftermarket, Britpart, Bearmach etc., the quality may be an issue. Again you need to find someone who has taken the plunge and has long term experience of them.

Beware of statements like 'OEM supplier' (OEM to who & when ?), OEM quality, OEM standard etc. These statements don't really mean anything and are just a way of making the product sound genuine'ish.

Secondhand is my normal choice but when you purchase them assembled on an axle beware because there can be horrors hidden inside. I have one which is near perfect but the Railco bush had seized and the Railco was spinning in the housing which has now worn oval !! Others have had severe rust inside, all have had pitted taper roller bearings and most have pitted axle support bearings.
Secondhand you are most probably getting genuine which have already lasted 30odd years

I have a number that I'm close to throwing out because the chrome is too pitted, probably too expensive to get them de-chromed, repaired & re-chromed.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/408.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YsF8WR)DSCN4428 (https://flic.kr/p/YsF8WR) by Colin Radley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152321353@N07/), on Flickr


Colin

[whitehillbilly64]

Thank you for the replies.
Spoke to Blanchards. 100 pound postage.
They have Genuine or OME, ( source unknown.)
Just waiting for price, of either.
Some in Cyprus also, just need to work out best price.
Local would be better and quicker. OS seems cheaper.

whitehillbilly

[JohnboyLandy]

Yeah, I saw the Cyprus folks on ebay, seem to have a lot of genuine parts. I thought I might order something cheap from them as a test run.

Let us know which way you end up going, as I may have to do the same, and I was thinking blanchards for best price for genuine parts.

Cheers,
John

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks John.
I got a Santana spin on oil filter from them, for my 2.25 petrol.
Very happy with them.
Not sure I full understand OEM, parts. Blanchard OEM swivels, UK 85.58. Genuine UK 149.95. P+P approx. UK 100
Do Britpart come under OEM or are they sold as NEW.

whitehillbilly

[JohnboyLandy]

It's probably worth asking them what they actually mean by OEM, as the price difference is quite substantial.

In general, my understanding of OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) means that a part from from the same manufacturer as the genuine part, but just not in branded packaging etc. So in this case OEM and genuine would be same part, but genuine is the official Land Rover supplied and packaged part, where as OEM is supplied directly from manufacturer with generic branding / packaging.

I took a look at blanchards offerings, and the web page for the "none genuine" part Buy Swivel Housing Series Non Genuine Part 539741 (https://www.pablanchard.co.uk/shop/products/Swivel-Housing--Series-None-Genuine-539741.html) doesn't say OEM, so it looks to me like it's from a third party manufacturer, i.e. not the same manufacturer as the genuine parts.

Cheers,
John

[gromit]

The term OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) seems to be misused by most suppliers.
Does it mean they supply in this case the swivel to Land Rover ? It might mean that they supply some other small part so are correctly an 'Original Equipment Manufacturer' just not the part you are buying. Maybe they are an Original Equipment Supplier to another company, I guess their parts are still from an 'OEM'. As I mentioned previously, it's a way of making it sound genuine'ish, giving you a comfortable feeling when you purchase, making you think you are getting good value for money. Not paying the 'Land Rover' price but getting the same part.

A lot of these 'OEM' parts come from India or China. Were Land Rover sourcing from India when the Series I, II & III were produced ? Probably not but who knows, they might be doing that now.

Then you get onto 'OEM specification', or 'OEM standard' which means what ? It's the correct size/shape ? Quite possibly not the original specification steel or chrome plating etc. etc.

Probably the best take on it is, if it isn't in Land Rover packaging then it's probably not the genuine/OEM part so buyer beware.


Britpart/Bearmach etc. outsource the parts from India, China, Turkey, Italy even the UK (check your Paddocks invoice as they list the country of origin for each part).
They then have to cover their costs, ship it to the Australian Britpart/Bearmach agent who ships it to your local supplier so another two companies have to cover their costs (staff, rent, lighting/heating, storage, shipping etc. etc.). No wonder some of the parts are getting expensive, now if only you could buy direct from the manufacturer in India......


Colin

[67hardtop]

I wonder if the chrome was blasted off and the swivels rust pits repaired if they would last if they were powder coated instead of chromed???

Just a thought...

Cheers Rod

[gromit]

I wonder if the chrome was blasted off and the swivels rust pits repaired if they would last if they were powder coated instead of chromed???

Just a thought...

Cheers Rod

Depends what you mean by 'last'.
The original chrome has lasted in many cases over 30 years, I don't think powder coating would last unless the vehicle is a 'trailer queen'.

Removing the chrome would have to be either by reversing the plating process or grinding off (but you'd need a jig to retain the shape). I not sure blasting would work because of the hardness of chrome plating, you'd probably just deepen the pits.


Colin

[whitehillbilly64]

Spoke to Nick at Blanchard. OEM is 'Modern OEM'
He said he was very happy with OEM product, sold them for many years and never had one returned, or never had any negative feedback about product. Good value for money, was his comment.
Couldn't/wouldn't give me any more info about product origin. I mentioned Britpart and Bearmach. but Didn't come up in conversation. He mention chrome thickness over original Leyland NOS ones, MAY be a bit different.
Had interesting conservation with my local servo S African owner/mate, who ones a defender.
His old company made OEM parts for Toyota, BMW and Audi. He said his parts were of higher standard than the original parts, quite often his parts packed for Toyota, BMW or Audi. Same parts, different name on box. Named boxes twice the price.
Still wondering which way to go.
Even IF Britpart, still cheaper than in Aus.
If I fit NOS Leyland ones at 145 pound, they will out last my Life I expect !!!!
OEM ones may outlast me also [bigwhistle]
You comments are valued. Thank you.
whitehillbilly

[gromit]

I wonder what 'Modern OEM' means ? Chrome thickness different.....I guess it's thinner

Lots of comments on the net about aftermarket ones rusting but could be various suppliers, I'm sure there will be good aftermarket ones out there.

Found both positive & negative comments on painting eg. Resurfacing swivel balls - Defender Source (http://www.defendersource.com/forum/f48/resurfacing-swivel-balls-37019.html)


Colin

[whitehillbilly64]

Wonder if a DIY Teflon coating is available.
It lasts a long time, even with my girls using a metal scourer to clean the pots and pans.
Whitehillbilly

[akelly]

I've seen posts here where guys have used liquid metal filler (loctite brand) to fill the pits, then sanded them back smooth. That's what I'm about to try with my very badly pitted swivels. Pretty sure I've heard of people using all sorts of epoxy filler as well. Whatever holds the oil in will be fine with me, I have gaiters to hide the sins... :)

Cheers,

Adam

[whitehillbilly64]

found this site, and emailed them.
539741 Swivel Chrome Ball : drive shaft pto shaft cardanshaft universal joint propeller shafts C.V.Joint&Drive axle Driveline Components (http://www.driveline.cn/539741-swivel-chrome-ball-p-1207.html)
Relpy was pretty instant.

Dear Shane White:
I'm so sorry, we don't have this 539741 in stock. need to produce, So it must be have a big quantity.
you can buy this swivel balls from ebay.
Best regards
Aaron He

so I asked for ebay link for the product mentioned.
Reply, interesting.
Dear Shane White:
Rechromed Front Swivel Ball Land Rover Series 1 2 2A 3 $100 Deposit Required | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rechromed-Front-Swivel-Ball-Land-Rover-Series-1-2-2A-3-100-Deposit-Required-/302430676198?epid=704725048&hash=item466a45e4e6:g:pn0AAOSweAVZo~32&vxp=mtr)
this link from Australia.
Aaron

whitehillbilly

[Pedro_The_Swift]

so its 165, plus a 100, plus freight,,
then you get a 100 back if you freight the old ones up,,[bighmmm]

[Rrm]

Hi
I bought 2 swivel housing sets from John craddock - very happy with the complete kits. Just under 480 including delivery.

[gromit]

so its 165, plus a 100, plus freight,,
then you get a 100 back if you freight the old ones up,,[bighmmm]

But the ones you return have to be in a condition that they can actually repair & re-chrome otherwise you've lost the $100.......

Colin

[gromit]

Hi
I bought 2 swivel housing sets from John craddock - very happy with the complete kits. Just under 480 including delivery.

I guess then that they are from the 'Modern OEM' if Leyland NOS swivels are 145GBP each.

Interested to hear how they last.

**itpart kits are 90GBP each at Paddocks. I did wonder about getting them then putting them out to be de-chromed then re-chromed locally so that the chrome plating is at least a known quantity.


Colin

[123rover50]

I guess then that they are from the 'Modern OEM' if Leyland NOS swivels are 145GBP each.

Interested to hear how they last.

**itpart kits are 90GBP each at Paddocks. I did wonder about getting them then putting them out to be de-chromed then re-chromed locally so that the chrome plating is at least a known quantity.


Colin

I bought the Paddocks ones last year and put them on the 57 Shorty with the TDI we now call " Buka"
Still look as new but we havnt done many K,s yet. I am happy with them so far.

Keith

[whitehillbilly64]

Hi,
They are supplied by Britpart but not sure who the OEM manufacturer is sorry
regards Nick



P.A.Blanchard & Co

whitehillbilly

[whitehillbilly64]

well,
I am going down the repair road, just to see what the finished result is like.
Will probably order a swivel kit, If I cant find anything at Harry's, later next week.
Like to have spares ready, in case.
After getting one of the balls sand blasted, ( $10 ) I coated with JB weld, today after using my dermal and grinding disk to remove bits missed in blasting process, or rust starting, from standing for a week or so.
Was a bit warm, so JB weld, was setting a bit quick, work time hrs, but a cheap silicone Coles spatula made quick work on the ball profile, removing excess JB.
I have a mate around the corner with a lathe. My plan being to mount the swivel it the lathe, 400, 800 then wet 1,000 to wet 2,000.
Paint with POR 15 silver, POR-15 Stirling Silver | Rust Paint | Rust Removal | Prevention |
Anti-Corrosion Treatments | Rust Converters from PPCCO The Restoration
Specialist (http://www.ppcco.com.au/por09.html) rattle can, after warming in the oven for a bit, then back to the lathe, wet 2,000 then another light POR coat.
Photos and update to follow..
Am also going to Gaiter the swivel balls, with Leather Gaiters. ( Can make my own once a cheap set is bought ) and report back In 5 years [bigsmile][bigsmile][bigsmile]

whitehillbilly

JB weld now dry, so a couple of pics added.

[whitehillbilly64]

Hi,
when rebuilding the swivel, it suggests this,
'Heavy grease to pack into the lip of the swivel seal"
Just wondering why ????
thanks.
whitehillbilly

[TimNZ]

Probably so it doesn't leak straight away? :)

I packed my seals with o-ring grease, and the oil practically ran straight out the seals, so don't do that I guess.

Cheers,

[JDNSW]

I think the grease is intended to provide initial lubrication, to avoid scuffing of the seal on the dry surface.

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks for the replies.

whitehillbilly