Major Service

[LRD414]

With the significant servicing milestone of 3 years & 78,000km coming up I have just recently had a major service done with a few extras at my request.
I have generally been following an official LR service schedule known as "Arduous" which I consider appropriate for Australian conditions and my level of usage.
The Arduous cycle is typically double (or half depending on how you look at it) the standard version, for example 13,000km oil changes.

So the general items done were;
- engine oil and filter
- air filter and cabin (aka pollen) filter
- fuel filter
- brake fluid (standard at 3 years)

To this I added;
- transfer case oil change (I think this is actually part of the 3 year arduous anyway)
- front and rear diff oil change (not due until 10 years but recommended by JC & others)
- transmission oil partial drain and refill

Total cost was $2,775 of which $1,020 was labour

I considered a few options and chose a transmission fluid drain and refill without changing the pan or filter. This method (single drain) results in a change over of 4L and cost $800 of the total including 1 hour of labour, 1 drain plug (single use in WSM) and the ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid. The plug costs $96 so I would probably insist on re-use next time and risk the leak because that's ridiculous. The fluid cost $134/L.

Why did I take this approach? Based on reading as much as I could on 8-speeds on forums it seems that it is more robust than the 6-speed and less prone to issues or at least lasts longer without problems. However, no fluid can last forever and fresh fluid is always good for any mechanical component subject to wear (hence diffs and TC as well). I think there is now replacement metal pans for 8 speed with separately replaceable filters but that is a significantly more expensive step. How much to spend now versus saving the money for a full rebuild one day in the distant future? this is the dilemma. So I decided that around 4L of partially refreshed with new fluid would be a good balance between cost and longevity, although I'll probably never really know. That equates to around 40% of total capacity (8.5L in gearbox plus whatever is in the cooler and lines).

Why use the dealer? Same reason as having all the fluids and filters changed at the 3 year service. Part of my strategy to have regular fluid & filter changes to look after the vehicle mechanically and develop a strong record of frequent servicing with a dealer should I suffer an unlikely catastrophic failure of engine, transmission or drivetrain when out of warranty. LR have a record of offering financial assistance in these cases. I'm also yet to be convinced about independents with 8-speed experience in Brisbane. Is that being paranoid? quite possible.

Anyway, hopefully all this stands me in good stead for many more years of driving enjoyment because I'm intending to keep it for a long time.

Cheers,
Scott
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/467.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TQ68J1)

[Milton477]

Thanks Scott, some good advice there. My independent wants to change my oil at 50k which is the next service because of the high towing mileage I do.
Have you any idea what your gearbox oil looked like when compared to new oil?

[RHS58]

I had all the same service items done at approx 70000km / 3.5 years in June at MR Automotive at Redcliffe. The invoice is with the accountant, but from memory, included a new transmission pan.
Found them approachable and knowledgeable about things LR, including obviously my D4 and the towing I ask of it.
The cost was a little over half of what the dealer asked you to pay.
The only thing missing was the beautiful young thing in the form fitting skirt at the service counter who took the money.
I'm happy and will be going back to MR.

[DazzaTD5]

*With regards to brake fluid change, the Australian Standard is a maximum of 4% moisture content, this is why brake fluid is recommended to be changed at that typical 2 - 3 years.
*Diff fluid change in D3, D4 etc I generally recommend round that every 50K as the capacity is quite small, the 10 year thing is laughable.
*The 8 speed ZF simply hasnt been around long enough to know if its good or not but I suspect like previous ZF boxes it will be a long lasting durable unit if fluid changes are done, I've only had a few software issues on new Jeep Grand Cherokees (same box) apart from that all good. Also note while manufacturers such as Land Rover and Jeep have taken to "fluid for life" ZF themselves note for "arduous" conditions such as towing, servicing the auto is beneficial.

"catastrophic failure of engine, transmission or drivetrain when out of warranty. LR have a record of offering financial assistance in these cases"
Yes because its the law. Your legal standing on this is very clear and the ACCC are focusing on the new car industry specifically dealers with regards to consumer warranty and rights. Any major failure that occurs "just out of warranty" is not considered fair and reasonable and you are legally entitled to the repair being treated as if it was still under warranty. Regardless of where the vehicle has been serviced, this has no legal bearing, nor should it. According to the ACCC 60% of profits in the new car industry comes from the service department.

And further to that, find the right independent specialist and if the above should happen they will go into bat on your behalf. Kevin at Rovertech does this for his customers as in his words "I dont want my customers being screwed over"

Regards
Daz

[LRD414]

Diff fluid change in D3, D4 etc I generally recommend round that every 50K as the capacity is quite small, the 10 year thing is laughable.
Sadly I only cottoned on to this when beyond 50k so hopefully 77k and then again at say 130k will be helpful.

Cheers,
Scott

[geoffmc]

I considered a few options and chose a transmission fluid drain and refill without changing the pan or filter. This method (single drain) results in a change over of 4L and cost $800 of the total including 1 hour of labour, 1 drain plug (single use in WSM) and the ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid. The plug costs $96 so I would probably insist on re-use next time and risk the leak because that's ridiculous. The fluid cost $134/L.



$134/litre, OMG! I'm getting mine done at The Transmission Centre, at Springwood and he is charging me $88/L plus $200 labour for a 10 L flush. Was supposed to have this done last month, but spent most of it in the US for work, so first week in October it will be done. Ill post an update once completed.

cheers
Geoff

[LRD414]

find the right independent specialist and if the above should happen they will go into bat on your behalf.
I have edited my original post comment regarding independents in case I was misunderstood as being negative towards them. I was trying to say I didn't have confirmation/feedback on an independent that is experienced with 8-speed drain/flush/etc. and is convenient to where I live or work at the time when deciding to proceed with the servicing. I suppose it could be argued that the 8-speed is the same as many other transmissions. Regardless of all that I expect to use independents in future and recognise the benefits of good ones.

Scott

[geoffmc]

I have edited my original post comment regarding independents in case I was misunderstood as being negative towards them. I was trying to say I didn't have confirmation/feedback on an independent that is experienced with 8-speed drain/flush/etc. and is convenient to where I live or work at the time when deciding to proceed with the servicing. I suppose it could be argued that the 8-speed is the same as many other transmissions. Regardless of all that I expect to use independents in future and recognise the benefits of good ones.

Scott

Hey Scott,

I did'nt take it negatively towards the Independents, was just a little surprised at just how expensive LR sell the LF8 for.

cheers
Geoff

[l00kin4]

Thanks for this Scott.

I had the transmission fluid partial flush done recently and will look now to do the diff and transfer case fluids (I'm at ~68k) . Dealer just quoted me $775 just for these items. For the sake of comparison, does that seem in line with what you were charged for those items?

David

[LRD414]

Dealer just quoted me $775 just for these items. For the sake of comparison, does that seem in line with what you were charged for those items?
I was charged $384 for the fluids (both diffs & TC) plus new plug.
But the labour for that is not separately itemised from the service labour.
I think the service without extras was going to be around $1200 so the diffs+TC would be in the $700s

Scott

[scarry]

I have edited my original post comment regarding independents in case I was misunderstood as being negative towards them. I was trying to say I didn't have confirmation/feedback on an independent that is experienced with 8-speed drain/flush/etc. and is convenient to where I live or work at the time when deciding to proceed with the servicing. I suppose it could be argued that the 8-speed is the same as many other transmissions. Regardless of all that I expect to use independents in future and recognise the benefits of good ones.

Scott

I have used MR auto for over 12yrs now,wouldn't go anywhere else.

My experience with the dealers is not the best,to say the least.

Mine has just done 60K,and will be six yrs old next service.Only just started towing the last month or so.

Diffs and TC oils have been done,auto,coolant and timing belts are coming up shortly,next year or two.

Full auto probably next service,then belts and coolant.

Mine has probably been over serviced due to the low k's.

I also have the fuel filter replaced every service.

[DazzaTD5]

I have edited my original post comment regarding independents in case I was misunderstood as being negative towards them. I was trying to say I didn't have confirmation/feedback on an independent that is experienced with 8-speed drain/flush/etc. and is convenient to where I live or work at the time when deciding to proceed with the servicing. I suppose it could be argued that the 8-speed is the same as many other transmissions. Regardless of all that I expect to use independents in future and recognise the benefits of good ones.

Scott

I also did not take it in a negative manner...I normally just think that the owner hasnt been informed enough with the right info to even think about using a indy land Rover repairer.
The new car dealer network relies heavily on the service department for profits. Hence the included servicing while under warranty, fixed price during warranty, all this is done to keep the customer in the dealer network.

Regards
Daz

[PeterJ]

Thanks Scott, some good advice there. My independent wants to change my oil at 50k which is the next service because of the high towing mileage I do.
Have you any idea what your gearbox oil looked like when compared to new oil?

Hi all, I have attached a photo of my auto oil changed after nearly 50,000km, at least 60% towing the 3.2T van. This sample has been sitting on the shelf undisturbed in the shed since it was changed back in December 2015, I have been expecting it to clean up as the contaminates settle out, but to my surprise not much change.
130617

Another thought, I recently changed Fr Diff, T/Case and E-Diff, as previously discussed 0.6, 1.5 and 1.5 litres respectively. I bought the E-Diff oil from LR dealer, so had to get 2 x 1 litre bottles, so for those who have had the dealers do it do they sell you the correct amount of oil or 2 containers, hence give you back the 0.5 l excess or just keep it. At $80 / lit it is a bit of a hit.

Peter

[Milton477]

Thanks Peter.
I'm not sure what I was expecting but that was not the colour I had in mind for something that is supposed to be sealed for life.

[cripesamighty]

I just love the jargon when selling cars. 'Sealed for life' is one such misnomer. The translation (for us mortals in the real world) effectively means 'sealed until the warranty expires'. It helps whichever car company spruiks this nonsense (for various reasons), but not the actual owner of the vehicle, or the poor Indies who have to fix the mess afterwards. A caveat in the manual states to change sooner under arduous conditions, which unfortunately covers pretty much most people in Australia because of a) it gets hot here, b) we drive large distances, c) people tow with these things and d) a combination of all three. [bigwhistle]

[ATH]

"b) we drive large distances" Actually I think our average yearly mileages are not much more than those in say Europe but some of us do big trips occasionally. However I've always changed all oils at at least half the intervals stated by the book as most of the crap comes from the EU political elite and their desire to make out everything is green and fuel economic etc.
Except of course all the vehicles they drive (or get driven in) and change every year and the planes they constantly jet around in.
My present vehicle is now coming up towards 20K and it'll be done better than by the book by Dazza Td5. I did an oil/filter change at 11k as I don't like dirty oil.
Sealed for life etc. maybe OK for some but not for this owner.
AlanH.

[cripesamighty]

'Sealed for life' isn't for this little black duck either! I bought a high mileage D3 a couple of weeks ago and (amongst other things) it's had the transmission rebuilt in the last couple of years. Like my D1, it will get serviced/maintained within an inch of it's life so I can happily rely on it when I am in the boonies. The less Land Rovers that break down in the bush the better I reckon, especially any of the later models!

[LRD414]

For reference here are quotes taken from two different ZF technical bulletins:

Modern transmissions utilise overlapping application of clutch packs at gear changes (instead of freewheels) and controlled slip of the torque converter lock up clutch which puts greater stresses on the oil. To meet these challenges partially synthetic oils have been developed for ZF 5, 6 and 8 speed transmissions which are maintenance free under normal operating conditions. However, as some degradation of the oil inevitably occurs over time and usage, ZF recommends oil and filter changes after 50,000 to 75,000 miles to ensure optimum performance.

ZF 5-, 6-, 8- and 9-speed as well as the ZF 4HP20 automatic transmissions are filled maintenance-free with specially developed partially synthetic ATF oils. Maintenance-free fills are intended for normal operating conditions. Especially driving at very high operating temperatures can result in accelerated aging or increased wear of ATF oils. It is recommended, in the event of severe operating conditions, such as: frequent highway driving in top speed range, offensive, sporty driving style, frequent trailer operation, being above average, oil purification (oil change) on automatic transmissions is recommended between 80,000 km and 120,000km, or 8 years, depending on the load.

And this is taken from MY14 Land Rover Arduous Service Schedule (8-speed transmission):
Renew automatic gearbox fluid and filter every 10 years or 160,000km
This is the same frequency as the standard service schedule which is odd given that the arduous schedule typically has higher frequency fluid changes for other components.

Regards,
Scott

[cripesamighty]

The disconnect between ZF and LR servicing frequencies can impact your transmissions longevity, and not in a good way. Personally, I would go for what the transmission manufacturer says is 'best practice for the 'owner', rather than what is in the 'best interest of the car manufacturer'.

[Milton477]

That sorts out how to make the gearbox last then. How do we make all the plastic bits last as long? Are the mechanical & plastic bits designed to fail together so that you buy a new vehicle at ever decreasing intervals?

[cripesamighty]

I was recently talking to a motor trimmer and he said the two model cars he hated dealing with were newer Mercedes Benz and BMW. The quality of the plastic degrades over time as it is meant to be biodegradable or made from recycled materials and our sun/heat does it no favours. The biggest problem for him was this increasingly brittle plastic has clips built into the interior trim panels rather than separate clips like most Land Rovers, and they too often break. So, inevitably, exit the original panel and enter a newly bought one. He now warns BMW and MB owners of the possible problems ahead of time.