Factory fault with Puma transfer case?

[Brid]

I recently decided to fix a minor intermediate shaft oil leak, and at 320,000kms decided to upgrade to an Ashcroft ATB centre diff, and check out the gearbox extension shaft, top make the exercise worthwhile. Before dismantling, I noticed that the intermediate shaft could move back and forth freely...didn't seem right to me that it should do this.

Anyway, on re-assembly, and tensioning up the big nut, I found that I ran out of thread (on the shaft) before I'd removed all the end play. I needed to insert a decent washer under the nut to be able to continue tightening the nut. Just thought that it might be something others might want to check, as it's likely a factory fault with mine (2007 model).

[Ancient Mariner]

Measure the length of thread on the shaft and thickness of nut .The nut should be about flush or slightly past the end for the stake to work properly,[bighmmm]


AM

[Zeros]

Fascinating Brid. I'm no mechanic so sorry 😐 I can't offer advice, but I'm interested to learn.

Could that movement be contributing to Puma shunt / clunk? How is / was yours at 320,00km?

Mines only done 70,000km. Have done rear drive flanges and lubed/replaced input shaft. But still have some driveline clunk.

How's everything else for you at those km's? ...Not many posts I can find from 300,000+ km Pumas. ...Anything major to report?

[rangieman]

Measure the length of thread on the shaft and thickness of nut .The nut should be about flush or slightly past the end for the stake to work properly,[bighmmm]


AM
Oh yeah [thumbsupbig]
The way you have that stake nut set you are going to be in a whole world of hurt if it comes loose and drops off[wink11]

[SSmith]

Id be back tracking to eliminate the possibility of an assembly fault. Something is just not right for that to be necessary and, as others have said, stake nut is barely doing its job.

[Brid]

Yes the washer was a little thicker than needed. It's a bit had to see from the photo, but the nut is indeed securely staked in the groove. Locktite used and a lot of torque required to squeeze up the crush tube (to remove end play).

As I commented initially, there was excessive end play before pulling it apart, and the nut was already at the end of its thread, still staked fully...so just seems weird to me.

I don't think it was a contributor to clunk, Zeros, and I didn't have much anyway. I was very happy with the condition of the transfer case, and was almost tempted to reuse all bearings they appeared so good. There was debris from one of the brass cone washers from the centre diff, which I'm told is very common, but very easy to swap to the Ashcroft ATB, as their diff is already set up.

Likewise the wheel bearings are still all original and appear really good, but I'm in the process of changing them out now as well. Will overhaul brake calipers as well shortly...LH front has started to wear the inside pad much faster.

I had my fair share of warranty problems, but after 100,000kms it's been great. A water pump, an alternator, a suction control valve are the main things that come to mind. Ah! Also clutch failure (spring from clutch plate came loose)...that was probably the only major thing! Original injectors still, and really been very reliable for me. Plenty of remote trips (Simpson x2, High Country x3, Flinders Ranges, Kimberleys, Dingo fence, etc) to shake the odd bolt loose, but runs pretty low stress really. I plan to keep it long term, so happy to spend on the upgrades.

[SSmith]

Yes the washer was a little thicker than needed. It's a bit had to see from the photo, but the nut is indeed securely staked in the groove. Locktite used and a lot of torque required to squeeze up the crush tube (to remove end play).

As I commented initially, there was excessive end play before pulling it apart, and the nut was already at the end of its thread, still staked fully...so just seems weird to me.


Sounds like an assembly fault then.
Shouldnt be maxed out from factory like that. Also, mine (and i thought all pumas) has a solid spacer and shims to remove endfloat, not a crush tube. Did you remove a crush tube?

[Brid]

Yes Simon, definitely a crush tube, which I replaced with a new one for re-assembly, as required.

[rick130]

Fascinating Brid. I'm no mechanic so sorry [emoji52] I can't offer advice, but I'm interested to learn.

Could that movement be contributing to Puma shunt / clunk? How is / was yours at 320,00km?

Mines only done 70,000km. Have done rear drive flanges and lubed/replaced input shaft. But still have some driveline clunk.

How's everything else for you at those km's? ...Not many posts I can find from 300,000+ km Pumas. ...Anything major to report?The clunk comes from a combination of spline play plus mostly backlash in the centre diff.

An Ashcroft ATB is the nicest way to improve the driving of the car and eliminate diff backlash

[Zeros]

The clunk comes from a combination of spline play plus mostly backlash in the centre diff.

An Ashcroft ATB is the nicest way to improve the driving of the car and eliminate diff backlash

Cheers Rick, so you'd recommend an Ashcroft ATB in centre diff, as priority over front and rear? Has anyone done the centre diff alone?

...Obviously all three would be awesome with an unlimited budget.

[rgty_kmj]

Centre diff arriving from Ashcrofts this week (hopefully). I'm going to see how this goes before looking at an Ashcroft read diff.

Kerry

2012 110 Station Wagon

[justinc]

The puma era centre diff is so bad i wouldn't put it back in.... ATB 100%!☺

Jc

[DiscoMick]

Is that all Pumas or just some?

[justinc]

Is that all Pumas or just some?

Poor QC across the board. The biggest insult was a 2015 one i fitted a atb to they had cut eveb more corners and made the centre diff only 2 pin! !!

If ever there was a land-rover model that needed an atb immediately it is the 2007 on puma

Jc

[SSmith]

Yes Simon, definitely a crush tube, which I replaced with a new one for re-assembly, as required.Guess I am mis informed then.

Still. Weird how that is happening as it is the space between the bearing races that is out of whack to cause that and they are pressed into the intermediate gear, as you already know just trying to nut out the error.

So, all I can think of is a machining error in the intermediate gear. Did it have the 2 circlips inside the gear, that you press the bearing races up against, as per earlier LT230s? - mine does not, the bore changes same as wheel bearings into the hub.

[SSmith]

Poor QC across the board. The biggest insult was a 2015 one i fitted a atb to they had cut eveb more corners and made the centre diff only 2 pin! !!


Do you know if there was a definitive changeover date for this downgrade?

[justinc]

Do you know if there was a definitive changeover date for this downgrade?

I am certain that it was 2015. Will see if i can find out.

[rick130]

Poor QC across the board. The biggest insult was a 2015 one i fitted a atb to they had cut eveb more corners and made the centre diff only 2 pin! !!

If ever there was a land-rover model that needed an atb immediately it is the 2007 on puma

Jc

All of us that saw the photo's Justin posted of the new centre diff were gobsmacked at how cheap and nasty it was.
A cast centre with only 2 pinion gears ?
Seriously Land Rover?

It was one of the most atrocious pieces of engineering cost cutting I've seen.

[DiscoMick]

Hoping my 2009 version holds together.

[justinc]

Hoping my 2009 version holds together.

Mick i would certainly change the oil more often and use a synthetic 75w90. If it starts to leak out of the intermediate shaft o rings then het to it early. Sometimes they leak because the shaft preload is insufficient and ot is deflecting under loading... this is the reason the cases flog out too....


Jc

[Ancient Mariner]

LT230 (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/the-modified-zone/172844-lt230.html)

[rick130]

LT230 (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/the-modified-zone/172844-lt230.html)Still the best modified LT230 and best write up on modifying an LT230 in the history of the Interwebs!

[DiscoMick]

Mick i would certainly change the oil more often and use a synthetic 75w90. If it starts to leak out of the intermediate shaft o rings then het to it early. Sometimes they leak because the shaft preload is insufficient and ot is deflecting under loading... this is the reason the cases flog out too....


Jc
Thanks for the great advice.