Ineos Grenadier, do you reckon it'll take off?

[SPROVER]

Ssangyong made a short version years ago.... this is just a facelift [bigsmile1]
https://img.drivemag.net/jato_car_photos/SSANGYONG%2FKORANDO%2Fsport%20utility%20vehicle%2F 3%2F2003%2Fexterior-photos%2Fo%2Fssangyong-korando-sport-utility-vehicle-3-doors-2003-model-exterior-photos-0.jpgAnd it still looks better than the new so called defender. [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

[Slunnie]

And it still looks better than the new so called defender. [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

Thats the first time I've ever heard anybody say a Ssangyong looks better than anything!:lol2:

[SPROVER]

Thats the first time I've ever heard anybody say a Ssangyong looks better than anything![emoji38]2:Haha yep...I retract that last comment. [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

[scarry]

And it still looks better than the new so called defender. [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

At about 1/4 of the price[tonguewink]

[grey_ghost]

This is the official Ineos video - it explains in better detail what's what:

Introducing the Interior (https://ineosgrenadier.com/en-au/explore/the-grenadier-videos-and-stories/building-the-grenadier/the-grenadier-interior?utm_content=KMI_AU&utm_source=Salesforce&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=BTG_9)

I quite like some of their ideas... (Pre-wired spare switches)

Oh and in the video "if you want one, you can reserve one starting in October"... Not exactly a delivery date, but it must be getting closer one would think.

Cheers,
GG.

[simonmelb]

Very nice interior and love the pre wired switches, incl a 500A one 😳.

If you actually look at the functions they have in the main switch console you can see that the ‘gloves on’ big buttons have come at cost - ie lots of area taken up for limited functions. Probably not a bad thing with the good usability and overhead switches for expansion.

Two things I would definitely miss if I changed from my D2:

1. Dual climate control for driver and passenger - my wife and I set temps about 5c difference.
2. SLS. Will be interesting to see how their variable rate rear springs turn out, esp with the quoted 1 T payload !

It looks like the big screen will have Android and Apple play. Would assume you wouldn’t be able to load your own apps into the big screen system itself - eg run Ozi Explorer natively in it, without having to tether up an Android device.

[scarry]

Very nice interior and love the pre wired switches, incl a 500A one 😳.

That one is for the coffee maker,actually,it would probably power two.[biggrin]

[SBD4]

https://youtu.be/3wrPT9buKkc

[loanrangie]

Those roof mounted switches are a dumb idea, who wants to be fiddling around trying to finger the roof trying to find a difflock button. Otherwise i dont mind it, manual hi/lon lever and a real handbrake.
Pity it will be priced out the market for most of us, no way its going to be a budget vehicle.

[Slunnie]

Those roof mounted switches are a dumb idea, who wants to be fiddling around trying to finger the roof trying to find a difflock button. Otherwise i dont mind it, manual hi/lon lever and a real handbrake.
Pity it will be priced out the market for most of us, no way its going to be a budget vehicle.

In my Disco2 I have the diff lock switch’s above the mirror on the roof, its a really good spot for them that works well. I thought I saw the diff lock switches on the dash though?

[ramblingboy42]

is the new defender priced out of the market for you?

the Ineos Grenadier appears to be coming in equal or in some cases cheaper than some Defender models listed.

[Homestar]

is the new defender priced out of the market for you?

the Ineos Grenadier appears to be coming in equal or in some cases cheaper than some Defender models listed.

I think they’ll be significantly more than we think here. We are the arse end of the world and pay more than most.

[NavyDiver]

I think they’ll be significantly more than we think here. We are the arse end of the world and pay more than most.

Yes we are but the Rump is the juiciest and tastiest part [biggrin]

[Tote]

SWMBO's Rubicon has a panel of pre wired and fused switches which terminate under the bonnet and under the passenger side dash in a set of pigtails. Just connect up your accessory and go, they are also clever enough to be programmed to remember their setting on restart or to default to either on or off. A very handy idea that saves people screwing up their wiring and makes accessory installation quick. None of them are 500A though, I think the biggest might be 40A

Regards,
Tote

[Arapiles]

This is the official Ineos video - it explains in better detail what's what:

Introducing the Interior (https://ineosgrenadier.com/en-au/explore/the-grenadier-videos-and-stories/building-the-grenadier/the-grenadier-interior?utm_content=KMI_AU&utm_source=Salesforce&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=BTG_9)

I quite like some of their ideas... (Pre-wired spare switches)

Oh and in the video "if you want one, you can reserve one starting in October"... Not exactly a delivery date, but it must be getting closer one would think.

Cheers,
GG.

Doesn't appear to have a speedo - or is it in the niche ahead of the steering wheel?

I like the saddle leather.

Given that it turns out that some of the new Defenders will have an on-demand Haldex system like my 10 year old CR-V this thing is looking better and better.

[grey_ghost]

There is a speedo located in front of the driver - it a slimline screen, hard to spot at first.

Also - from the video - the diff lock is on the roof I think. I remember the Ineos video saying “comfort controls like the heater are on the dash, driving controls are on the roof - we want to keep them completely separate”

[gofish]

I've been watching stuff on Ineos for some time now & have been really impressed with the concept. They have now (finally) revealed the interior.......makes me want one even more [bigsad]

Is the Ineos Grenadier the REAL new Defender? | Carfection - YouTube (https://youtu.be/3wrPT9buKkc)

[SpudHeadTed]

Brilliant! And the interior. I want one…but…

BUT is there an EV or Hydrogen version on the way? If not it’s a deal breaker.

[gromit]

Brilliant! And the interior. I want one…but…

BUT is there an EV or Hydrogen version on the way? If not it’s a deal breaker.

Already a thread running on the Grenadier under 'Non Land Rover Vehicles - European Manufactured.
They are working with Hyundai on an automotive fuel cell.
Ineos are involved with hydrogen production.....


Colin

[SpudHeadTed]

Already a thread running on the Grenadier under 'Non Land Rover Vehicles - European Manufactured.
They are working with Hyundai on an automotive fuel cell.
Ineos are involved with hydrogen production.....


Colin

Good to hear …know of any good web links?

Ive already got a diesel Defender. …EV conversions are unrealistically priced so far.

Why buy an INEOS Grenadier if it’s not future proofed?

[gromit]

Good to hear …know of any good web links?

Ive already got a diesel Defender. …EV conversions are unrealistically priced so far.

Why buy an INEOS Grenadier if it’s not future proofed?

Google and you'll find loads of info.


Colin

[speleomike]

I want one…but…
BUT is there an EV or Hydrogen version on the way?

Given Australia's current roll out speed of EV charging stations how long do you think it would take to have a network of hydrogen fill stations? :-)

Yeah, I also love that interior !

Mike

[gromit]

Given Australia's current roll out speed of EV charging stations how long do you think it would take to have a network of hydrogen fill stations? :-)



Catch 22, until there is a demand why would companies install them ?
Seems we're up to four stations already [bighmmm] long way to go......but to be fair they are still for research vehicles as there are only two car models that run on hydrogen at present.

Hydrogen cars: CSIRO to build Australia’s fourth, Melbourne’s second refuelling point | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/922394/hydrogen-cars-csiro-to-build-australias-fourth-melbournes-second-refuelling-point/)


Colin

[Homestar]

Given Australia's current roll out speed of EV charging stations how long do you think it would take to have a network of hydrogen fill stations? :-)

Yeah, I also love that interior !

Mike

Remember when LPG started out - you couldn't really get it anywhere and I remember when the local farm supply got an LPG tank and bowser in - jetsons type stuff I thought but now this is all so commonplace. I think Hydrogen would be easier to get out there than EV charging stations as you only need a normal electric supply for fuel bowsers, but huge electrical infrastructure for any decent EV charging - which is a much larger challenge and much more expensive - particularly as you get more remote. This is why I think battery powered EV's are only a step in the development of the tech until fuel cells and their support networks roll out and I don't think battery powered EV's will end up being the be all and end all of transport but part of a mix.

Given the EV tech as far as motors, control, etc will fit a fuel cell model, then it's not wasted tech, but just a step along the way to something more that will make more sense to a lot of people. Both Battery and Fuel cell EV's will live happily side by side eventually I think.

Both Charging points and Hydrogen will become much more available in the coming years and in 25 to 30 years we'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

[Homestar]

Brilliant! And the interior. I want one…but…

BUT is there an EV or Hydrogen version on the way? If not it’s a deal breaker.

I should think if the company can sell plenty of the original diesel variant and they stay profitable long enough (A big ask I think) then an EV or fuel celled version would come at some stage - 5 to 10 years if the company is still around would be my guess.

[SBD4]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekYMLB6MuE

[DazzaTD5]

So my only gripe with the Grenadier is no manual gearbox?
They rabbit on about built on purpose and the videos with NGO use in remote locations etc.

*A modern manual gearbox doesnt require electronics or engine input data to function (unlike a modern automatic transmission).
*When some local driver leaves the key on or the lights on and the battery goes flat, a manual gearbox can be roll started, push started by half a dozern locals, bumped by another vehicle.
*Generally if a manual gearbox fails you often have at least one gear somewhere that lets you keep going.
*Show me any NGO mechanic that could pull apart an auto in the middle of no-where with dust and hobble it back together enough to get it moving again.
*if the clutch takes a dump you again can start in gear, get it going in some form.

A 76 series Land Cruiser with the old straight 6 as offered in africa or middle east to me still seems like a better vehicle for NGO or remote use.

[speleomike]

Hi


I should think if the company can sell plenty of the original diesel variant and they stay profitable long enough (A big ask I think) then an EV or fuel celled version would come at some stage - 5 to 10 years if the company is still around would be my guess.

I think this is spot-on. Ineos will not be able to get the investment to develop a H2 or EV unless their sales are significant and they are profitable. So to help the environment you need to help Ineos develop their H2 or EV and to do that we need to buy their diesel version ASAP :-)

Mike

[scarry]

A 76 series Land Cruiser with the old straight 6 as offered in africa or middle east to me still seems like a better vehicle for NGO or remote use.

[/COLOR]

Being as reliable as the 70's will be a huge challenge for them,if they are to target those sorts of markets.

[simonmelb]

Good video with some discussion vs old Defender.

Underneath the Grenadier and other details - 1 of 2 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8b1y_OyIUs)

Couple of new points:

Neat storage spot under the front seats - good for an ARB compressor if you’re not intending to flood your footwells.

Double door seals

Captive nut points in the chassis ready for bull bar mounting.

Its not a lightweight vehicle!

[speleomike]

Having seen a few videos of the interior I'm sold on it already :-) If I can afford it. I'm just waiting on that Aussie price and availability.

[cjc_td5]

It uses an 8 speed ZF auto box doesn't it? I presume it is same family of box that is in the D4? If so, I'm sold.

Haha, my wife noticed an article on it the other day and said "that looks like the sort of replacement for our D4 that you'd like!" I've got the tick of approval already, 90% of the battle done... [bigsmile1][bigsmile1]

[loanrangie]

Don't know why they keep comparing it to the old defender, it was outdated 20 years ago.

[simonmelb]

Few new tidbits mentioned in this video - all unconfirmed of course, but all very promising.

Grenadier parts, dealers and warranty - 2 of 2 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNRTM3SU7Is)

Vehicles will be able to be purchased via website direct from Ineos.

Full 3D parts diagrams will be freely available online.

Parts will be sold direct to end customers from Ineos.

[Tombie]

Being as reliable as the 70's will be a huge challenge for them,if they are to target those sorts of markets.

The old 70s. The newer ones are absolutely no better than anything else out there.

V8s are always coming apart for starters, fuel systems etc here.

I wonder if the squeaks on the back doors will transfer to Ineos [emoji41]

[Tombie]

Few new tidbits mentioned in this video - all unconfirmed of course, but all very promising.

Grenadier parts, dealers and warranty - 2 of 2 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNRTM3SU7Is)

Vehicles will be able to be purchased via website direct from Ineos.

Full 3D parts diagrams will be freely available online.

Parts will be sold direct to end customers from Ineos.

Interesting model.

If they set up remote stores in each continent they may have something.

[Homestar]

The old 70s. The newer ones are absolutely no better than anything else out there.

V8s are always coming apart for starters, fuel systems etc here.
[emoji41]

I was working with a few Linesmen the other week on a large generator job - I've known this group for years now and they all drive Land Cruisers - well up until recently...

One of them had a new base model G wagon fully fitted out - I asked him how it compared to the Cruiser which he'd had several of over the last 15 years. His reply was "Apart from the lack of power compared to the Cruiser, this runs rings around them - particularly the newer ones that seem to fall apart when you look at them." That last bit surprised me a bit but all the other guys nodded in a knowing sort of way so guessing they aren't what they used to be. The run them fully loaded and work them hard. That company is currently buying Cruisers and G wagons 50/50 now.

[scarry]

I was working with a few Linesmen the other week on a large generator job - I've known this group for years now and they all drive Land Cruisers - well up until recently...

One of them had a new base model G wagon fully fitted out - I asked him how it compared to the Cruiser which he'd had several of over the last 15 years. His reply was "Apart from the lack of power compared to the Cruiser, this runs rings around them - particularly the newer ones that seem to fall apart when you look at them." That last bit surprised me a bit but all the other guys nodded in a knowing sort of way so guessing they aren't what they used to be. The run them fully loaded and work them hard. That company is currently buying Cruisers and G wagons 50/50 now.

It will be interesting to see what they say about the G wagons after they have had them for a few years.

NP’s have a few of them here as well,they need more room,the tray is larger than the 70.

[Homestar]

It will be interesting to see what they say about the G wagons after they have had them for a few years.

NP’s have a few of them here as well,they need more room,the tray is larger than the 70.

Indeed, but they’ve had them on test for 5 or 6 years now in smaller numbers, they have just started buying them in larger quantities now. I haven’t met anyone until recently that had one. I’ll ask them again in a couple of years. [emoji16][emoji106]

[one_iota]

This is the official Ineos video - it explains in better detail what's what:

Introducing the Interior (https://ineosgrenadier.com/en-au/explore/the-grenadier-videos-and-stories/building-the-grenadier/the-grenadier-interior?utm_content=KMI_AU&utm_source=Salesforce&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=BTG_9)

I quite like some of their ideas... (Pre-wired spare switches)

Oh and in the video "if you want one, you can reserve one starting in October"... Not exactly a delivery date, but it must be getting closer one would think.

Cheers,
GG.

I think the interior designers were Dr. Who fans. Who wants a squared-off Dalek for a centre console?

[simonmelb]

Latest marketing video just up. No new information - only that it has a smooth ride !

So in summary:

* Inline diesel engine, good fuel economy and easy to access for servicing
* ZF transmission with manual mode and HDC
* Solid axles
* Coil springs
* Well made seats with split rear seats
* Comfortable ride...
..... etc......... OH wait ! its a D2.

Might as well keep maintaining mine and save $100++K :-)

[Hoges]

Latest marketing video just up. No new information - only that it has a smooth ride !

So in summary:

* Inline diesel engine, good fuel economy and easy to access for servicing
* ZF transmission with manual mode and HDC
* Solid axles
* Coil springs
* Well made seats with split rear seats
* Comfortable ride...
..... etc......... OH wait ! its a D2.

Might as well keep maintaining mine and save $100++K :-)

Actually, in the blurb which came with the email/video was the announcement that they will be opening reservations for initial orders in October ... hmmm...

[one_iota]

Latest marketing video just up. No new information - only that it has a smooth ride !

So in summary:

* Inline diesel engine, good fuel economy and easy to access for servicing
* ZF transmission with manual mode and HDC
* Solid axles
* Coil springs
* Well made seats with split rear seats
* Comfortable ride...
..... etc......... OH wait ! its a D2.

Might as well keep maintaining mine and save $100++K :-)

I could do an automatic transmission conversion and swap-out some Recaro seats in my Puma Defender and be well ahead with a real Defender not a "look-alike". [smilebigeye]

[spudfan]

If you watch the video you will see the vehicle heading down a slope in first low. 1) The slope does not seem over steep or slippery to me. 2)The vehicle seems to be travelling very fast for first in low range. 3) Seems in order to keep the vehicle going down in the selected gear there seems to be some over ride to stop the auto box changing gear. If this is electronic wizzardry, we are entering New Defender territory here.
The woman says how quiet it is compared to other 4x4s, make not specified. As far as I am concerned she cannot be referring to the Puma as I find this a quiet and relaxing drive. On a motorway going 70 mph (doesn't happen very often!) I can still talk normally to the Mrs or a back seat passenger.
I like the Grenadier but if Land Rover had put some more investment in to the Puma, which is a fine vehicle, we would not be talking about the Grenadier now. Fair enough the purchase price would no doubt have increased but it would still be a lot cheaper than the new Defender. Instead Ineos have taken what Land Rover had and built on it. Seems like a common sense approach to me.

[gromit]

Radical Australian sales strategy for INEOS Grenadier - carsales.com.au (https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/radical-australian-sales-strategy-for-ineos-grenadier-130844/)

Interesting comments which I think have been mentioned before.

Instead of investing heavily in dealers and outlets, from 2022 Grenadiers could be sold in remote locations by agricultural machinery dealers, off-road specialists or 4x4 accessory makers.
According to Tennant, discussions are already underway with ARB, Pedders and Brisbane's Minecorp.

Other options open to INEOS include striking up a sales and service relationship with BMW Australia, but that could bring added complexity as the Grenadier would have to be sold in a separate part of the dealership.


I'm guessing BMW servicing costs would be on par with Land Rover !


Colin

[Tote]

Radical Australian sales strategy for INEOS Grenadier - carsales.com.au (https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/radical-australian-sales-strategy-for-ineos-grenadier-130844/)

Interesting comments which I think have been mentioned before.

Instead of investing heavily in dealers and outlets, from 2022 Grenadiers could be sold in remote locations by agricultural machinery dealers, off-road specialists or 4x4 accessory makers.
According to Tennant, discussions are already underway with ARB, Pedders and Brisbane's Minecorp.

Other options open to INEOS include striking up a sales and service relationship with BMW Australia, but that could bring added complexity as the Grenadier would have to be sold in a separate part of the dealership.


I'm guessing BMW servicing costs would be on par with Land Rover !


Colin


The ag machinery dealerships is a pretty good idea, there are many more of those than there are car dealers in the bush.

Regards,
Tote

[Tombie]

I don’t see that it will be much different to having a modern LR.
Parts will all be drop shipped resulting in delays to schedules.

Then a non-marque Cocky mech will touch your vehicle [emoji41]

[Tote]

I don’t see that it will be much different to having a modern LR.
Parts will all be drop shipped resulting in delays to schedules.

Then a non-marque Cocky mech will touch your vehicle [emoji41]

At least a diesel mechanic at a machinery dealership might have a chance of doing some logical troubleshooting rather than relying on throwing random parts at the problem. Failing that they might be able to fix it with a large hammer and some fencing wire until the parts arrive[biggrin]

Regards,
Tote

[Homestar]

I don’t see that it will be much different to having a modern LR.
Parts will all be drop shipped resulting in delays to schedules.

Then a non-marque Cocky mech will touch your vehicle [emoji41]

I don't rate most factory trained mechanics anyway - they are parts replacement technicians. Also, it's more likely you'll get a first or second year apprentice doing the work anyway with a Mechanic 'checking' their work once they are done - most larger dealerships run around 3 apprentices to every qualified Mechanic - and truck OEM's are even worse - around 4 to 5 apprentices to every qualified mechanic. Check out a Cummins or Cat workshop - most are pimply faced who don't know one end of a spanner to the other - I used to work for them.

[Tombie]

Agree. And we still arrive at the same conundrum of not being brand specific in their knowledge.

That knowledge is what makes Indy’s so good at what they do. Experience!

[gromit]

Seen at Melbourne airport apparently.

With that many straps holding it down maybe it was air dropped ?

Colin

[Tote]

Link to dual cab cab chassis version being tested in the UK

Ineos Grenadier pick-up: commercial 4x4 hits public roads | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ineos-grenadier-pick-commercial-4x4-hits-public-roads)

Regards,
Tote

[gromit]

First production units late 2022 !

INEOS Grenadier arrives in Australia - carsales.com.au (https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/ineos-arrives-down-under-132047/)


Colin

[3toes]

The presence of a test vehicle gives done hope they will actually do some testing locally. Thinking dust and corrugations which do not seem to be part of the road conditions most manufacturers even consider

[simonmelb]

Got an email this morning. Invite to reserve a place for A$800 refundable on Sep 30.

Which gives you the opportunity to order one early 2022. No mention of any other pricing or launch timing.

[chuck]

Got the same email

Very tempting

Already talking about a 7 seater & twin cab that has the wheel base extended, not just tacked on the like the new 130 defender.

My opinion is that these will be very popular and wait time will be very long.

If they were to do the above body types + a single cab they wont need any other vehicles in especially if they introduce a cab chassis into the line up.

[one_iota]

Andrew Sinclair-White has the latest news:

Pricing, retail strategy, models, timing and more

INEOS GRENADIER IN AUS. ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW. PRICE? WHEN? WHERE? HOW? | 4xOverland - YouTube (https://youtu.be/gpIdLrs7nqg)

Interesting!

[Tombie]

$84,500 AU starting price for 2 door Commercial unit

[grey_ghost]

Hi All,

As Tombie has stated - $84.5k for a "2 seat panel van"

You can read more details here:

INEOS Grenadier pricing revealed - carsales.com.au (https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/ineos-grenadier-pricing-revealed-132179/)

Depending on what state you are in, you can add $10k on top of that with: Registration, GST/Stamp Duty, LCT, dealer delivery, etc.

So it's not a cheap vehicle - not saying that it isn't going to be a great one, but it isn't cheap in the eyes of "traditional" Defender owners.

Compared to other vehicles in the market - I say it's realistic pricing?

Cheers,
GG.

[Barraman]

This could a replacement for my current 2015 D4 - watching with interest!

[Arapiles]

The presence of a test vehicle gives done hope they will actually do some testing locally. Thinking dust and corrugations which do not seem to be part of the road conditions most manufacturers even consider


The CarSales article says that they're considering taking it down the Canning Stock Route ....

[Arapiles]

First production units late 2022 !

INEOS Grenadier arrives in Australia - carsales.com.au (https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/ineos-arrives-down-under-132047/)


Colin


One of the articles says that it won't reach 5 Star NCAP - will that prevent it being bought by miners? I thought that was a requirement now, and that's why Toyota upgraded the LC 70 single cab but not the other 70 series variants.

[Tombie]

One of the articles says that it won't reach 5 Star NCAP - will that prevent it being bought by miners? I thought that was a requirement now, and that's why Toyota upgraded the LC 70 single cab but not the other 70 series variants.

That is correct, won’t be approved unless they can lift the rating.

[chuck]

Pricing has been released.

Don't think i will proceed with early order.

Bit disappointing $84k for a two door commercial that has not even been in any media news right thru the journey.

That will take 4 door wagon with a few options well north of $120k on road.

Looks like i will stick with my 79 series order.

[Arapiles]

That is correct, won’t be approved unless they can lift the rating.


That's problematic, because mining fleets would presumably have been a key market.

There was this in The Age today:

https://www.drive.com.au/news/2022-ineos-grenadier-wont-be-crash-tested-by-safety-authorities/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner

Dodging a safety rating by claiming to be low volume would appear to be a losing formula for a start-up that needs volume to survive.

[gromit]

Via LinkedIn I found that the Head of Sales & Marketing here is an ex Sales Director of JLR !
He was also the MD at Renault Australia...

There are several other positions filled but a vacancy in NSW for a Regional Business Manager.


At $84 K for a 2-door I don't think I'll be looking at one until it's 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand !


Colin

[W&KO]

One of the articles says that it won't reach 5 Star NCAP - will that prevent it being bought by miners? I thought that was a requirement now, and that's why Toyota upgraded the LC 70 single cab but not the other 70 series variants.

Our mines don’t require a minimum NCAP rating.

I can only think of one incident in the past 10 years that involved a LV….NCAP rating s wouldn’t it have changed the outcome.

And we keep our LV’s way long than most.

[ramblingboy42]

$84k sounds ok to me.....what will it be "competing" with on the market? Now check out the prices of any of it's competition......you won't get anything for $84k......and .....whatever you want to buy is now a 6-12mth wait......regardless of what you hear and see on the net.

I have just been browsing new 4wd vehicles and current availability of new vehicles is quite poor and the dealers are "finding" stock in colours and trim that they couldn't sell in June.

[SBD4]

https://youtu.be/gpIdLrs7nqg

[scarry]

$84k sounds ok to me.....what will it be "competing" with on the market? Now check out the prices of any of it's competition......you won't get anything for $84k......and .....whatever you want to buy is now a 6-12mth wait......regardless of what you hear and see on the net.

I have just been browsing new 4wd vehicles and current availability of new vehicles is quite poor and the dealers are "finding" stock in colours and trim that they couldn't sell in June.

Is the $84K drive away?

An LC 76 would be that or less drive away,they were actually $67K drive away 18months ago.[bighmmm]

But then you need to spend $10K on the suspension....and wait around 10months for the vehicle.

[Arapiles]

Is the $84K drive away?

An LC 76 would be that or less drive away,they were actually $67K drive away 18months ago.[bighmmm]

But then you need to spend $10K on the suspension....and wait around 10months for the vehicle.


And manual only.

[Tombie]

Our mines don’t require a minimum NCAP rating.

I can only think of one incident in the past 10 years that involved a LV….NCAP rating s wouldn’t it have changed the outcome.

And we keep our LV’s way long than most.

I assume you aren’t working for one of the big players then?

RT, BHP, FMG etc have the NCAP requirement.

[Tombie]

$84k sounds ok to me.....what will it be "competing" with on the market? Now check out the prices of any of it's competition......you won't get anything for $84k......and .....whatever you want to buy is now a 6-12mth wait......regardless of what you hear and see on the net.

I have just been browsing new 4wd vehicles and current availability of new vehicles is quite poor and the dealers are "finding" stock in colours and trim that they couldn't sell in June.

For a 3 door panel van?

[W&KO]

I assume you aren’t working for one of the big players then?

RT, BHP, FMG etc have the NCAP requirement.

Nah, no part of the big boys…..geez they probably have more LV at just one site than our whole Australian operation.

Only small sites…..it’s been risk assessed as you can imagine the mining regulator have asked, given history of no incidents (maybe by luck) site layout etc we’ve deem not to enforce a minimum rating. Although most contractors also visit the big boys therefore are over and above our requirements.

My car is one of few that has a few extras that the rest of the fleet don’t as I used to visit large road construction and coal seam gas operations. .

My extras which is over and above the rest of the fleet
Battery isolator
Start isolator
Jump start Anderson
IVMS (only 4G) currently turned off.
Reverse squawker
Wheel nut indicators
Magnet call sign

our fleet only run
Hi-vis stips
Flashing light
Flag
Radio

[Grappler]

I tried to pay a reservation fee last night to Ineos Automotive
The AUD800 is "fully refundable", taken as an EOI


Anyway, Westpac flagged the payment as suspicious and blocked my credit card!

Maybe they are telling me to wait and see rather than getting on the front of the queue

[dfendr]

Bendigo bank also made paying deposit difficult
But i persistedand got it done

[sashadidi]

Apparently coming to NZ as well

New Zealand price and launch date confirmed for hardcore Grenadier 4x4 | Stuff.co.nz (https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/126506091/new-zealand-price-and-launch-date-confirmed-for-hardcore-grenadier-4x4?cid=app-android)

[Arapiles]

Pricing has been released.

Don't think i will proceed with early order.

Bit disappointing $84k for a two door commercial that has not even been in any media news right thru the journey.

That will take 4 door wagon with a few options well north of $120k on road.

Looks like i will stick with my 79 series order.


Apparently the 5 door, 5 seater will be just a $1,000 more, so $85,500:

https://www.drive.com.au/news/five-seat-ineos-grenadier-priced-from-around-85500/

[Arapiles]

You have to admire their marketing nous ..... "tested in Australia".

https://www.drive.com.au/news/five-seat-ineos-grenadier-priced-from-around-85500/

https://images.drive.com.au/driveau/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,g_auto,h_674,q_auto:eco,w_1200/v1/cms/uploads/woguugtpatzueamyqzdv

[JDNSW]

Probably because it rhymes! Welcome to come and test it on my road - a bit boggy going into town today!

[3toes]

Thought the factory was the old Smart car one they bought in France

[grey_ghost]

Hi All,

I thought that I would post up some pictures of the vehicle for those that are interested. This are from one of the prototype vehicles RHD, version 2B, sent to Australia for testing I believe...

"All the wires are just battery charges for static display" (front diff pic 2)

Cheers,
GG.

[Tote]

There's a ford forum that I frequent occasionally and there is an igneous thread on there where several people have put down deposits, similarly a couple from the LR club that I'm a member of have done the same, so there seem to be plenty of people prepared to cough up a deposit.

Regards,
Tote

[101RRS]

So have any of these actually been built on a production line or are we still just in the prototype stage - seems everyone is full of praise for a production vehicle that is not in production. Based on discussed prices seems very expensive for what it is.

[Homestar]

So have any of these actually been built on a production line or are we still just in the prototype stage - seems everyone is full of praise for a production vehicle that is not in production. Based on discussed prices seems very expensive for what it is.

No production vehicle yet but the production line is being built at the moment and production is due to start July next year. Given this seems to be a side project to keep Jim happy and something to spend his money on, it will definitely come to fruition. What they’ll be like in the real world is still to be seen - could be a huge success or a crushing failure yet.

Looks like they’ll be cheaper than a low KM, 5 year old Defender so ok in my books. I’m not putting a deposit on one but I am very interested - I’ll see how they pan out over the next couple of years before jumping in to make sure they are what they say they are and any production bugs are sorted.

[Robmacca]

I don't know much about the BMW engines, but a mate who has one of the straight 6cyl said that even though they are a great reliable engine, it depends on what they have done in regards to using some plastic components within the engine. He mentioned that long term those plastic pieces will degrade and fail...

[Homestar]

I don't know much about the BMW engines, but a mate who has one of the straight 6cyl said that even though they are a great reliable engine, it depends on what they have done in regards to using some plastic components within the engine. He mentioned that long term those plastic pieces will degrade and fail...

The engine is a very well known and reliable unit and has been in production for nearly 20 years in one shape or another. I had the predecessor in my L322 Rangie and it was awesome - the engine choice is a strong one IMO.

[rar110]

I don't know much about the BMW engines, but a mate who has one of the straight 6cyl said that even though they are a great reliable engine, it depends on what they have done in regards to using some plastic components within the engine. He mentioned that long term those plastic pieces will degrade and fail...

Yes, particularly manifolds, filter housings and coolant components that all heat up and cool down.

[4runnernomore]

A couple of photos from the dream build so far.174377174378174379174380174381

im a sucker for the dark blue. Out of my last 4 4Wd’s 3 have been dark blue.

[Homestar]

I just did a build with a red body, white roof, 2 seater. [emoji106]

[Homestar]

Yes, particularly manifolds, filter housings and coolant components that all heat up and cool down.

I think these sort of things have been around long enough that they’re known not to be an issue. The M57 in my old L322 is a 2002 mode with close to 300KKM on it now and those components have never had an issue. The current owner still says the engine has never missed a beat.

You’d never own a new vehicle these days if you thought plastic wasn’t up to the job.

[Tombie]

Booked my test drive today.

May as well have a look [emoji41]

[Robmacca]

Booked my test drive today.

May as well have a look [emoji41]

Would be good if u have a look underneath to see if there is room for extra Fuel Tanks / Water Tanks? Not sure what the OEM tank holds but would be curious to see if there is room to fit a Long Range fuel Tank...


Also, just curious here but the rear bashplate at the rear of the car - it looks like it could become a problem offroad or soft sand beach driving - what does it protect? Fuel Tank or exhaust?

[Xtreme]

TESTING EXPERIENCE
You'll have the chance to meet the INEOS Grenadier team, have a look at the vehicle up close and you'll accompany our pro driver in testing the vehicle.

I just tried to register for this at the NSW sites but got the message that 'no time slots available' at either site or on any of the available days.
If this is what you booked in for Toombie, you were very lucky &/or faster than me. Maybe not as many interested in SA.

Has anyone else tried the NSW locations and been successful?

[VladTepes]

Tombie I am really looking forward to your impressions when you have the test drive.
When is that happening?


A guy on the hunting forum I'm on has placed an order / deposit.

[Tombie]

December 17 - Eagle View 4wd Park
Sanderson SA

Bit of a hike for the day [emoji41]

We will take the 90 [emoji3]


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211102/0f3769eff4310b1d35450d0d62d543ab.png

[Homestar]

December 17 - Eagle View 4wd Park
Sanderson SA

Bit of a hike for the day [emoji41]

We will take the 90 [emoji3]


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211102/0f3769eff4310b1d35450d0d62d543ab.png

Very interested in your thoughts - While I won’t be first in line I’m seriously looking. Maybe after a year or so of production when the bugs are worked through and some sort of verdict is in. [emoji106]

[Hoges]

Would be good if u have a look underneath to see if there is room for extra Fuel Tanks / Water Tanks? Not sure what the OEM tank holds but would be curious to see if there is room to fit a Long Range fuel Tank...


Also, just curious here but the rear bashplate at the rear of the car - it looks like it could become a problem offroad or soft sand beach driving - what does it protect? Fuel Tank or exhaust?

The 'brochure' arrived in my inbox this morning [bigwhistle]. On a "quick" read,
* "heavy duty underride" protection listed as an optional extra... see below
* three diff locks standard equipment
* No specs on weight or fuel tank capacity. I'm surmising these are issues which will be finalised post testing completion.
*800mm wading depth, 258mm min ground clearance

They point to a strengthened ZF 8sp auto ; with the diesel putting put out 183kW /550Nm, vs 211kW/450Nm for the petrol.

Re. accessories: "...There is a wide range of accessories, including winches, towbars, bull bars, lightbars, side runners, interior and exterior utility rails, roof storage systems, heavy duty underride protection, auxiliary batteries and even a power take-off, 2,000W with domestic plug sockets...."

No 'rides' in Qld until they're allowed across the border...:soapbox:

[Tombie]

Diff locks are a tick box option in the build site.

[VladTepes]

Sounds epic !

C'mon lotto !!!!!!!

[Hoges]

Diff locks are a tick box option in the build site.

True! That's what pleasantly surprised me about the brochure... there's no "optional" tag where it describes "triple locking differentials" and nor are diff locks included in the options/accessories list. Possibly there has been an overwhelming uptake of the 'tick box' option on the build site so they've included it in the build line rather than a much more expensive after market add-on...

Another question to be added to your drive list![thumbsupbig] Look forward to your impressions!

[Mules]

Booked in for 04 December in NSW... I got the email early in the morning and booked immediately. I figured it would fill up fast.

Happy to look into anything / ask questions if somebody can't make it.

Very seriously interested. Currently running a 300tdi 110 and LC 80 Series (1HZ).. been watching this progress for years, nothing short of impressed with where it is going.

[Xtreme]

No more spots available in NSW for the test 'drives' but a couple in SA and quite a few in Vic still available.
I emailed Ineos and they replied that they may schedule some more for NSW. I'll try and be a bit faster out of the blocks if more become available.

[VladTepes]

None in Qld?

[Homestar]

No more spots available in NSW for the test 'drives' but a couple in SA and quite a few in Vic still available.
I emailed Ineos and they replied that they may schedule some more for NSW. I'll try and be a bit faster out of the blocks if more become available.

Can’t even find where you can book a spot. Do you need to have reserved one and paid the deposit before being offered this?

[Hoges]

None in Qld?

I emailed them to ask "when".... they replied that they're not allowed to enter under the current rules and they're waiting for Anna to open the borders... which according to the media will, at the earliest, be 17 December. I doubt Ineos will be here before late Jan/Feb 2022

[Geedublya]

Anybody found a fuel capacity specification? I've looked around but couldn't see it.

[econti]

Anybody found a fuel capacity specification? I've looked around but couldn't see it.

Minimum 90L, still being finalised

[Tombie]

Minimum 90L, still being finalised

That’s D4

[econti]

That’s D4

A little over, and D4s say they're empty still with like 10L left in the bottom.
Someone at the Vic prototype event said Ineos were hoping to fit over 100L.
Regardless, even at 90L with that engine, that's easily over 1000km per tank unless you're towing heavy and have a lead foot

[Arapiles]

Can’t even find where you can book a spot. Do you need to have reserved one and paid the deposit before being offered this?

That looks to be the case.

[one_iota]

So why would I buy one?

When I already I have a real one!


Arckaringa Hills at dawn | Arckaringa South Australia A Land… | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/mahnengland/49058464337/in/dateposted/)

[Hoges]

Booked in for 04 December in NSW... I got the email early in the morning and booked immediately. I figured it would fill up fast.

Happy to look into anything / ask questions if somebody can't make it.

Very seriously interested. Currently running a 300tdi 110 and LC 80 Series (1HZ).. been watching this progress for years, nothing short of impressed with where it is going.

Hi Mules,
did the drive day eventuate?
wondering about your impressions...
Cheers
Hoges

[Tombie]

Sadly my drive day has been delayed in account of travel restrictions according to Ineos.

Have to wait until the new year.

[Tins]

Sadly my drive day has been delayed in account of travel restrictions according to Ineos.

Have to wait until the new year.

Might have known you'd be on the list, Mike....

[Mules]

Hey Hoges,

Yep sorry been meaning to put some words down.

No test drive unfortunately this time (read between the lines here!) but a great opportunity to get a look at a prototype. It really is a prototype and while the interior dash and trim are indicative of the end product, they are mostly 3D printed. I am quick to forgive the lack of a test drive as they are pushing the vehicle as intended, and in the open.

The gentlemen who hosted us were very professional, including an Ineos engineer who had previous experience with Land Rover, and who was proud to seemingly fix most things that bug us about Defender ownership (or endear us!). No silly sales pitch; I think they know the vehicle largely speaks for itself.

My principle reservation up front is my perception of cargo space - it's not as deep as in a 110, unsurprisingly as the vehicle is shorter. But, it is also wider so perhaps it's better than on first glimpse. I'd put it in between a 110 and a G-wagon. Access is fantastic with the rear door set-up, and the weight-bearing door has sizeable 'pins' top and bottom that are properly engineered to prevent rear door cracking over corrugations. So, no obvious requirement for a rear wheel carrier.

Roof is load bearing and and has practical tie down 'poles' on the side. Great to tie off to. Very solid and handy rear ladder (optional extra).

Seats very comfortable, front and rear. Ample manual adjustment forward and rear (I mean a LOT). Tall drivers no problem with leg space (or head space for that matter). I'm 182 cm and after 7 years of using seat extenders in the Defender, I took them out as I was sick of ducking slightly to get a clear line of sight. This is not a problem in the Grenadier. It feels like you are sitting in a 'cabin', the view out is excellent, the instrument panel and layout just works really nicely (I was worried it was a little overstated, not so). That roof console is something else! Steering wheel was really nice, perfect size and feel. Amazing amount of elbow room and the feeling of a lot of car between you and outside. A bit tighter in driver leg room than I expected, but evidently some modifications are in play.

Rear seats don't fold completely flat apparently, this is a bummer. View from the rear seats not so different from a 110 (eg. Good for kids but less so adults). Primary battery is located under one of the rear seats, and space for a second battery (eg. Along the width of the rear seats, so conceivably space for a battery management system). Mounts to accept cargo barriers internally and to change quickly, without need for modification. Space under the front seats (eg. Tool roll perhaps?).

Very nicely proportioned vehicle. Indicative fuel tank capacity of 90 litres. Watch this space for long range fuel tank options. They are really thinking outside the square for service delivery / spares etc. Partnership with Bosch and others (slowly growing). I won't go through all the details, but suffice to say a good plan for when you wish to order parts. Also, digitable manual with 'expandable' graphics (a bit better than Haynes I'd hope!). A very novel ambition to be able to add after-market accessories pre-delivery (eg. ARB bull-bar).

So... it doesn't rewrite the rulebook. I don't look at my Landy much differently, it still has history, nostalgia and functionality (although will without a doubt be far more liveable). It also doesn't replace a Troopy, which remains a great big 4WD van that you can happily cut the roof off for a tent conversion and kit out the inside (I suspect the electronics in the Grenadier roof may prevent this from being easily done).

But I don't think these observations hold it back, rather, they highlight it's functionality and quality. The whole vehicle was just so bloody well thought through. I've got little reason to doubt that the engine and gearbox won't be a great match. Coming from a Tdi it will be punchy and smooth I've no doubt. Everything was strikingly practical. I struggled to get out of the vehicle and leave, would have been happy to poke around it all day.

Hats off to what this company had pulled together. Evidently Sir Jim has had more of a say about certain features than I would have thought. Above all, they are serious.

At this stage we'll be staying in the que....

Mules

[Tins]

Hey Hoges,

Yep sorry been meaning to put some words down.

No test drive unfortunately this time (read between the lines here!) but a great opportunity to get a look at a prototype. It really is a prototype and while the interior dash and trim are indicative of the end product, they are mostly 3D printed. I am quick to forgive the lack of a test drive as they are pushing the vehicle as intended, and in the open.

The gentlemen who hosted us were very professional, including an Ineos engineer who had previous experience with Land Rover, and who was proud to seemingly fix most things that bug us about Defender ownership (or endear us!). No silly sales pitch; I think they know the vehicle largely speaks for itself.

My principle reservation up front is my perception of cargo space - it's not as deep as in a 110, unsurprisingly as the vehicle is shorter. But, it is also wider so perhaps it's better than on first glimpse. I'd put it in between a 110 and a G-wagon. Access is fantastic with the rear door set-up, and the weight-bearing door has sizeable 'pins' top and bottom that are properly engineered to prevent rear door cracking over corrugations. So, no obvious requirement for a rear wheel carrier.

Roof is load bearing and and has practical tie down 'poles' on the side. Great to tie off to. Very solid and handy rear ladder (optional extra).

Seats very comfortable, front and rear. Ample manual adjustment forward and rear (I mean a LOT). Tall drivers no problem with leg space (or head space for that matter). I'm 182 cm and after 7 years of using seat extenders in the Defender, I took them out as I was sick of ducking slightly to get a clear line of sight. This is not a problem in the Grenadier. It feels like you are sitting in a 'cabin', the view out is excellent, the instrument panel and layout just works really nicely (I was worried it was a little overstated, not so). That roof console is something else! Steering wheel was really nice, perfect size and feel. Amazing amount of elbow room and the feeling of a lot of car between you and outside. A bit tighter in driver leg room than I expected, but evidently some modifications are in play.

Rear seats don't fold completely flat apparently, this is a bummer. View from the rear seats not so different from a 110 (eg. Good for kids but less so adults). Primary battery is located under one of the rear seats, and space for a second battery (eg. Along the width of the rear seats, so conceivably space for a battery management system). Mounts to accept cargo barriers internally and to change quickly, without need for modification. Space under the front seats (eg. Tool roll perhaps?).

Very nicely proportioned vehicle. Indicative fuel tank capacity of 90 litres. Watch this space for long range fuel tank options. They are really thinking outside the square for service delivery / spares etc. Partnership with Bosch and others (slowly growing). I won't go through all the details, but suffice to say a good plan for when you wish to order parts. Also, digitable manual with 'expandable' graphics (a bit better than Haynes I'd hope!). A very novel ambition to be able to add after-market accessories pre-delivery (eg. ARB bull-bar).

So... it doesn't rewrite the rulebook. I don't look at my Landy much differently, it still has history, nostalgia and functionality (although will without a doubt be far more liveable). It also doesn't replace a Troopy, which remains a great big 4WD van that you can happily cut the roof off for a tent conversion and kit out the inside (I suspect the electronics in the Grenadier roof may prevent this from being easily done).

But I don't think these observations hold it back, rather, they highlight it's functionality and quality. The whole vehicle was just so bloody well thought through. I've got little reason to doubt that the engine and gearbox won't be a great match. Coming from a Tdi it will be punchy and smooth I've no doubt. Everything was strikingly practical. I struggled to get out of the vehicle and leave, would have been happy to poke around it all day.

Hats off to what this company had pulled together. Evidently Sir Jim has had more of a say about certain features than I would have thought. Above all, they are serious.

At this stage we'll be staying in the que....

Mules

Thanks for that. So the 'hype' of it being what the New Defender should/could have been is real?

[Mules]

one_iota,

Tough call for a Puma driver, sure.

But I know which one I'd choose.

May yours serve you reliably.

So why would I buy one?

When I already I have a real one!


Arckaringa Hills at dawn | Arckaringa South Australia A Land… | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/mahnengland/49058464337/in/dateposted/)

[Mules]

I think so Tins.

In fact I'm almost convinced so. Just shows how much Land Rover were off the mark with the new 'Defender'.
Thanks for that. So the 'hype' of it being what the New Defender should/could have been is real?

[Tins]

I think so Tins.

In fact I'm almost convinced so. Just shows how much Land Rover were off the mark with the new 'Defender'.

Not sure they were "off the mark" for their purposes. But they sure were for mine. Had LR built the Grenadier or similar I'd probably have my name down. I could have got over my towing allergy and towed a camper. But I got an OKA instead, and will keep the D2 as a weekend/daily car. Now I'm thinking; sell both Discos and the series, and the house (serious about that). and join the queue. Love the OKA, but a daily driver it ain't.

[Mules]

Good point Tins,

It was what they wanted to design, just not what we wanted. Great if you were probably a D3/D4 driver.

Envious of your OKA! But yes not a daily. My tdi/80 series are my daily drivers, but I've been worn down over the years. I reckon the Grenadier would handle this duty well.

As for space, with a growing family I may consider a trailer for certain circumstances. I share your aversion. Everything Is a compromise. I baulk at over-laden rigs these days though... just stay home if you're going to take the house.

Agreed, while competitively priced, not inexpensive by any means. Would probably be the only vehicle I'll ever buy new. The Tdi will stay if I can manage it.

Cheers,

Mules

[Mules]

Sorry, have more photos, but there are people in most of them. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211211/b5ec4c2d710d8dfb9f0891e245a6a5dc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211211/46a103edadc39808c96de84414e72528.jpg

[Tins]

just stay home if you're going to take the house.



Mules

40 or so years ago I worked for a bloke, styled himself as a businessman, bit more of an Arfur Dailey without the charm. This was in North Sydney. He used to brag about taking his holidays in Hong Kong. He would stay at the Sheraton, and only go out to go to the westernised restaurants. I asked him why the **** would you do that? There was a Sheraton right there in Sydney, and Dixon Street in Sydney had fabulous Chinese restaurants.

Same principle. If you are going to take it with you, why go?

My aversion to towing is simply that I did it for so long.

[Hoges]

Hi Mules,
thank you very much for taking the time to provide detailed feedback, it's most appreciated! :BigThumb:
I watched the chap on YouTube (LR Workshop and Expedition?) who claims extensive experience with LR Defenders. He crawled around under the Ineos (sans camera) during one of the UK exhibition days, and commented that there were several service repairs which he estimated would take 'several hours' on the Defender but could be done "in minutes" on the Grenadier! He didn't detail what they were... just expressed his admiration as to how things had been 'laid out'. Which made me wonder if in that vein, Ineos might just put a blue plate over the "Ad Blue" filler and reprogram the engine so it's not needed...as apparently BMW have done on some models of the diesel X5... one less constraint/complication. I'm past the age of crawling under vehicles [bigsad] but it points to reduced maintenance costs...
The border uncertainties must be playing havoc trying to balance test and marketing schedules ...I'm surprised they seemingly brought just one vehicle "Downunder".
I wait with anticipation to see whether they make it to Qld.
Thanks again
Hoges

[Tins]

Sorry, have more photos, but there are people in most of them. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211211/b5ec4c2d710d8dfb9f0891e245a6a5dc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211211/46a103edadc39808c96de84414e72528.jpg

Wow.

[Xtreme]

Hi Mules,...............................
The border uncertainties must be playing havoc trying to balance test and marketing schedules ...I'm surprised they seemingly brought just one vehicle "Downunder".
..............................
That shows how confident they are regarding it's reliability, no need for a 'backup' vehicle.

[ozscott]

I think it will be great. However the load carrying capacity doesn't suit me (roof load and tie downs are fantastic however it upsets balance of you go heavy up there and it is exposed). Having said that perhaps down the track when its just the 2 of us on tour i could go back to D2 size cargo capacity and then it would work well...hold on I have a D2...mmm[emoji23]. Cheers

[Tins]

In the pic looking in through the rear door, what is that on the roof?

[econti]

I saw the prototype on Thursday. Very impressed. The guys there seemed very proud of it, one particular fella I spoke to used to design for LR.
Inside wise the boot seems a similar size to our D4.
Of note is that the dual cab ute will be on a longer wheelbase, and they are planning on doing a 7 seat wagon on that long wheelbase, which means big interior space if that's what you need.

Personally I think that it's brilliant and is absolutely what LR should have done with the Defender. I think that if they are good reliability wise (and should be, they're giving a 5 year unlimited km warranty) then it will be a perfect modern equivalent. I also think that it has the potential to sway many 70 series cruiser owners. Obviously the die hard 70 series guys won't switch, but having an auto box, coil springs all round and an interior not from 1998 is hard to argue with.

The prototype is currently not driving due to a computer part which has to be coded to the vehicle, and they didn't send any of the diagnostic machines here, so bits had to go to and from the head office.



In the pic looking in through the rear door, what is that on the roof?

At the back door aperture? That's the latch for the back doors.
In between driver and passenger seats on the roof there is a switch panel with diff locks etc, and aux switches that you can wire your own things into.

[Tins]

At the back door aperture? That's the latch for the back doors.


Ahh, of course. Split rear doors. Silly me.

[scarry]

My principle reservation up front is my perception of cargo space - it's not as deep as in a 110, unsurprisingly as the vehicle is shorter. But, it is also wider so perhaps it's better than on first glimpse. I'd put it in between a 110 and a G-wagon. Access is fantastic with the rear door set-up


Thats good,a touring wagon needs a well sized cargo area.

Unlike the New Defender,smallish cargo area,and smallish door for access.
One reason,of many, that crossed it off our list when looking to replace the D4.

[chuck]

Mules

Thanks for the write up.

Great to have someone write up the detail particularly with knowledge of the cars we (Aulorians) may be coming from.

Registered my interest for the twin cab today.

Thanks again, much appreciated

[Mules]

Thanks gents,

Much appreciated & glad it was useful.

Hoges I watched those same videos as well, that chap is asking the right questions and is a Tdi die hard - I wish I had poked underneath a bit more. I agree, it would be interesting to know what specifically he is referring to.

Removable crossmember for straightforward gearbox removal is one example of thinking ahead. I have this mod on my Defender, but this is not common in vehicles. My 80 series' clutch was replaced recently and I was wondering why on earth they had to take the seats and trim out!

Chuck - pleased to hear. I'm torn between a wagon and the dual-cab. Would be great to see both side-by-side, but that may be some time yet...

May you all see one in the flesh soon!

Mules

[Mules]

Sadly my drive day has been delayed in account of travel restrictions according to Ineos.

Have to wait until the new year.Tombie,

Thought you didn't like the 'soul-less clone' and hoped it would fail?

Might be karma....

[econti]

Chuck - pleased to hear. I'm torn between a wagon and the dual-cab. Would be great to see both side-by-side, but that may be some time yet...

Guys there said dual cab should be delivered mid 2023. I have seen a picture of a development one so they will hopefully have a press release soon.


@everyone interested - there is a great Facebook group with Ineos employees in it, lots of good discussion. Ineos Grenadier Owners Australia.

[Tombie]

Tombie,

Thought you didn't like the 'soul-less clone' and hoped it would fail?

Might be karma....

I’m disappointed they cloned it so closely and unnecessarily.

Still won’t stop my taking it for a spin.

I drive the new models of pretty much all 4x4s to check them out and see what’s what.

It’s one of the key reasons I don’t have a D5.

As for Karma - no such beast. Government red tape is the only reason.

[Mules]

No of course it won't stop you mate, your happy to bag it out for the past 4 years, but if the shoe fits right?

You do you, just feel free not to take everyone else along for the ride.
I’m disappointed they cloned it so closely and unnecessarily.

Still won’t stop my taking it for a spin.

I drive the new models of pretty much all 4x4s to check them out and see what’s what.

It’s one of the key reasons I don’t have a D5.

As for Karma - no such beast. Government red tape is the only reason.

[econti]

I’m disappointed they cloned it so closely and unnecessarily.

What, cause the guy liked Defenders and then they stopped making them any more?
Could also say it's a G wagon clone, closer to the truth since it had a 6 cylinder option.

If the Grenadier had been made since the 1940s, and then LR made the Defender starting in 2022, you'd likely be upset that they were "copying".
It's just a car

[Tombie]

Is it just? Damn and I thought this was an enthusiast board.

And yes, if it had gone the other way I’d be equally disappointed in such a close clone.

Regardless I still will be driving it to see how it goes, what it rides like, how it behaves etc.

[101RRS]

If LR had decide to update the old Defender and bring it into the 21st century, the result would been similar to what is being done with Ineos. But this the exception of the runout years Defender sales were bad so there was little financial incentive.

Lots of support for Ineos from people on this forum who drove around (and still do) in early 90s Defenders that were bought second hand then and are/were too tight to upgrade to a new traditional style Defender and they will not buy a new Ineos despite their praises.

To those early adopters who have put money down on a vehicle that is not even in production - well good on you, that is your choice - at least you have the courage of your convictions.

I expect the Ineos will go into production and be sold here in G wagen territory with similar sales - it will suffer the LR issue of poor regional support and will always just be a niche brand. Old traditional Defender drivers are unlikely to buy but those who bought a runnout Puma may upgrade.

Garry

[Xtreme]

If LR had decide to update the old Defender and bring it into the 21st century, the result would been similar to what is being done with Ineos. But this the exception of the runout years Defender sales were bad so there was little financial incentive.

Lots of support for Ineos from people on this forum who drove around (and still do) in early 90s Defenders that were bought second hand then and are/were too tight to upgrade to a new traditional style Defender and they will not buy a new Ineos despite their praises.

To those early adopters who have put money down on a vehicle that is not even in production - well good on you, that is your choice - at least you have the courage of your convictions.

I expect the Ineos will go into production and be sold here in G wagen territory with similar sales - it will suffer the LR issue of poor regional support and will always just be a niche brand. Old traditional Defender drivers are unlikely to buy but those who bought a runnout Puma may upgrade.

Garry
Sounds like words from a prophet . :whistling:

[Vern]

I agree with Mike, aesthetically it looks like a chinese reproduction of a traditional Defender.
I'm sure its a marvellous vehicle, but AESTHETICALLY, its no where near as good looking as a defender of old (and new)

[one_iota]

I agree with Mike, aesthetically it looks like a chinese reproduction of a traditional Defender.
I'm sure its a marvellous vehicle, but AESTHETICALLY, its no where near as good looking as a defender of old (and new)

As a person with a design background, I agree. The Ineos is derivative...it has taken cues from the Land Rover. The Land Rover evolved successfully or otherwise depending on your bias. So what you see from 1948 to 2016 has a lineage. The Ineos doesn't. From a purists point of view the Ineos product is a pastiche. It might be good but did it need to look like that?

The new Defender starts with a clean slate and the latest technology. The Ineos is an impressive vehicle but just as the new Defender, practically what is its future when you can buy a Hilux or a Ranger to move bales of hay?

[Tombie]

Especially as the new Ranger is getting the TDV6.
That will be a great combo

[one_iota]

As I don't move bales of hay and as I'm an insufferable LR romantic I'll keep my old Defender and have a new Defender as well....tradition=heart over mind!!

[scarry]

you can buy a Hilux or a Ranger to move bales of hay?

But there are many around,that want a wagon,not a ute,for whatever the reason.

[one_iota]

But there are many around,that want a wagon,not a ute,for whatever the reason.

But of course...That's why Toyota has its many offerings and why I have my Defender!

There is a view that the new Defender should have been an agricultural vehicle. There is also a view that the Ineos is that. I dispute those views because of what Toyota offers.

[one_iota]

So I'll put it this way: if the Ineos Grenadier is the solution what was the problem?

(An excellent discussion from all here by the way!)

[one_iota]

one_iota,

Tough call for a Puma driver, sure.

But I know which one I'd choose.

May yours serve you reliably.

The experience with mine is mixed but predictable. It gets me there and back again. My last big trip was over 12000 km. The support I get when needed (rarely) is exemplary, this being a result of this AULRO community and those who service Land Rovers for a living.

The Ineos product and particularly support is unknown and hypothetical. Regardless of Ineos best intent, it's still a concept as opposed to a reality.

So good luck if you choose the other. I'll choose my nest here.

[ozscott]

I agree with Mike, aesthetically it looks like a chinese reproduction of a traditional Defender.
I'm sure its a marvellous vehicle, but AESTHETICALLY, its no where near as good looking as a defender of old (and new)Vern i agree with that. It doesn't look nearly as good. It looks like the love child of a 110 and older G Wagen. However reliability and off the shelf ability should be (and probably will be) a step up from Defender (especially the more recent examples) and every bit as niche (the availability of schematics and parts lists etc will ensure that in part). I hope it succeeds because of the raft of anaemic vehicles on offer these days and I really don't like the new Defender. Cheers

[one_iota]

(the availability of schematics and parts lists etc will ensure that in part).

Please don't take this the wrong way.

Needing this is an admission that you will need that. I have the complete GTR stuff for my Defender...rarely have I needed it. So if the Grenadier has that why would you need it? The modern machine is beyond accessibility for us mere mortals let alone a grease monkey in Oodnadatta.

That's why folks have Toyotas!

But the reality is that the things that break are the basic things, not the fancy things.

[ozscott]

Please don't take this the wrong way.

Needing this is an admission that you will need that. I have the complete GTR stuff for my Defender...rarely have I needed it. So if the Grenadier has that why would you need it? The modern machine is beyond accessibility for us mere mortals let alone a grease monkey in Oodnadatta.

That's why folks have Toyotas!

But the reality is that the things that break are the basic things, not the fancy things.Haha. No I disagree. They are just showing that the enthusiast can modify, add to, service and (down the track like any new vehicle) repair their pride and joy. Even adding spot lights, it is very handy to have the electrical diagrams for things like high beam trigger wires etc. Cheers

PS. I also don't agree that Yota are the Japanese brand benchmark any more in terms of pure reliability in 4wds.

[Hoges]

So I'll put it this way: if the Ineos Grenadier is the solution what was the problem?

(An excellent discussion from all here by the way!)

I secretly hankered after a traditional Defender for years...probably still do[bighmmm]. I also seriously considered a 70 series until spending time with a mate of 40 years at the property he manages. There I drove the 70 series and realised that unless it had 20 bags of cement on the tray the ride was at odds with the health of my spinal cord! Reports of NVH with the Defender /Puma and other issues tended to put me off especially when I realised that I was in fact at the time, requiring a practical vehicle which would also serve as a comfortable interstate tourer to support elderly parents.... Time passes!
The Ineos Grenadier seems to represent that "practical" vehicle, their stated design criteria requires it inter alia to be a "comfortable" workplace...hence the Recaro supplied seats, attention to NVH and suspension settings tuned to specific markets. If I owned one, I wouldn't have any qualms about drilling holes in it, adding brackets etc etc...it "invites" DIY tinkering[thumbsupbig]. My former P38 certainly did not lend itself to this, nor would a new Defender (in my opinion)... I had a good look at one in a car park the other day... "luxurious" came to mind[biggrin]... I'd be hesitant to take it off road for fear of hashing the paintwork!... I don't think one can get away from some electronics... but it's the heavy duty underpinnings which appear to set the Grenadier apart... like the 70 series Toyotas...but more up-to-date. Food for thought...

[econti]

So I'll put it this way: if the Ineos Grenadier is the solution what was the problem?

(An excellent discussion from all here by the way!)

From my point of view:
I want something that's rugged like a Defender, has decent power and an auto box for towing, yet is comfy for long trips, and looks nice enough that I can take the mrs out to dinner and not look out of place. Basically just a Defender for the current year.
I don't like how most dual cab utes drive, being so oversprung in the back, and some of them have pretty severe reliability issues (Ranger) or only come with a 4cyl and need a warranty voiding tune to comfortably tow heavy things.
Aside from that, the closest thing is probably a 70 series, but chassis wise they feel a step back from Defender, the interiors slightly better but that's not a high bar to jump over, and again only a manual box.

-edit-
I also think the new Defender is far too complex and LR have such a terrible track record with reliability and they're very expensive. I don't doubt that they are a good car, but they aren't really a Defender, and don't suit what I want.

[Tombie]

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More to come.

[Tombie]

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What else would you turn up in? [emoji56]

According to the team 8-9 of every ten people coming to look at them turned up in a Land Rover of some description.

[Homestar]

From my point of view:
I want something that's rugged like a Defender, has decent power and an auto box for towing, yet is comfy for long trips, and looks nice enough that I can take the mrs out to dinner and not look out of place. Basically just a Defender for the current year.
I don't like how most dual cab utes drive, being so oversprung in the back, and some of them have pretty severe reliability issues (Ranger) or only come with a 4cyl and need a warranty voiding tune to comfortably tow heavy things.
Aside from that, the closest thing is probably a 70 series, but chassis wise they feel a step back from Defender, the interiors slightly better but that's not a high bar to jump over, and again only a manual box.

-edit-
I also think the new Defender is far too complex and LR have such a terrible track record with reliability and they're very expensive. I don't doubt that they are a good car, but they aren't really a Defender, and don't suit what I want.

Probably a bit unfair to bag out LR so much IMO as they are always in front of the other players - always have been - and I think this is partly why they at times aren’t as reliable or seem more complicated than other vehicles. Lots of OEM’s play it safe regurgitating the same tech model after model with only minor tweaks.

The new Land Rover line up isn’t really for me overall - BUT - I’ll tell you now after driving a new Defender I’d definitely have one of I had the money for one and an Ineos- but the Ineos is on my list.

[Slunnie]

What else would you turn up in? [emoji56]

According to the team 8-9 of every ten people coming to look at them turned up in a Land Rover of some description.

Tombie, the Grenadier looks a fair bit wider than the Defender? Is that just the way they look or are they actually?

[Tombie]

Tombie, the Grenadier looks a fair bit wider than the Defender? Is that just the way they look or are they actually?

Sitting in both the front and back - it’s much larger by comparison.

No squash against B pillars, significant leg room for both front and rear passengers.

When I was in the back - 3 full width seats - Em had the front seat set for her with plenty of room. I had about 10 inches between my knees and the back of her seat.

Sitting in the front - it was like being in the D4 with a wider middle console.
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220114/bcad416510e1b21b000c7ff5d4da1cd6.jpg

[rick130]

Tombie, the Grenadier looks a fair bit wider than the Defender? Is that just the way they look or are they actually?Slunnie, did you realise the D2 has a 100mm/126mm-F/R wider track than a Deefer or D1?
And the D2 isn't big.

I had no idea until 2 weeks ago.
The 90/110/130 is Series dimensions inside.
Looks like Ineos have addressed a major complaint about the old girls.

[ozscott]

Slunnie, did you realise the D2 has a 100mm/126mm-F/R wider track than a Deefer or D1?
And the D2 isn't big.

I had no idea until 2 weeks ago.
The 90/110/130 is Series dimensions inside.
Looks like Ineos have addressed a major complaint about the old girls.Interesting Rick. When my D2 and D1 are side by side the D2 definitely has a wider stance.

Funnily enough the MR Triton which is a narrow ute compared to Ranger and many others has a wider track than the 110 Defender.

The 200kg roof rating on the Ineos is a lot more sensible than the 150kg on the Puma Defenders (Grenadier - lower, wider) but really 200kg on the roof isn't my cup of tea and the narrow track and tall Defender shouldn't be carrying 150kg on the roof at highway speeds. From memory LR drop that to 100kg approx offroad. The low slung Triton allows 80kg both on and off road which I think is a very sensible and usable weight limit. The D2's limit is too low to be very usable but as a taller vehicle I was happy to go with it.

Cheers

[rick130]

I used to wonder why Bowler, etc used the D2 running gear, aside from the D2 having better geometry (scrub radius)

Anyway, back to Grenadier discussion!

Loving the pics and thoughts Mike

[Slunnie]

I had about 10 inches between my knees and the back of her seat.

It sounds like you liked it. :lol2:

It looks really good in your photos and with what you're saying!



Slunnie, did you realise the D2 has a 100mm/126mm-F/R wider track than a Deefer or D1?
And the D2 isn't big.

I had no idea until 2 weeks ago.
The 90/110/130 is Series dimensions inside.
Looks like Ineos have addressed a major complaint about the old girls.
I didn't know the measurements but I did think the track was wider. I was thinking the D1 & D2 body were the same width but the D2 wheels are definately set further out which I thought came from a longer axle. I think they really needed to widen them out.

[rick130]

I didn't know the measurements but I did think the track was wider. I was thinking the D1 & D2 body were the same width but the D2 wheels are definately set further out which I thought came from a longer axle. I think they really needed to widen them out.

I only twigged when I read recently along the lines of
"The wider track enabled the designers to put some curvature in the body panels and get away from the slab sided appearance of the D1"
So I went searching to see how much wider was wider

[Slunnie]

I only twigged when I read recently along the lines of
"The wider track enabled the designers to put some curvature in the body panels and get away from the slab sided appearance of the D1"
So I went searching to see how much wider was wider

Ahhh, thats interesting, because despite having a couple of D1's and the D2, I had never noticed the difference in the panel shapes. I'd even wondered if the D2 doors would fit the D1 (thinking it would be cool to build a D2 3dr).

[Hoges]

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What else would you turn up in? [emoji56]

According to the team 8-9 of every ten people coming to look at them turned up in a Land Rover of some description.

Tombie...that is a very handsome "90"! now I'm confused[bawl]:wallbash:

[Tombie]

Tombie...that is a very handsome "90"! now I'm confused[bawl]:wallbash:

That’s Mrs Tombies 90.

It’s not going anywhere. [emoji41] it will get an easy life and spend a lot of time under cover in the workshop.

The Ineos was to see for ourselves as a possible additional (daily) driver for her.

[Hoges]

Friday afternoon 28 Jan at the Scenic Rim Adventure Park, Tamrookum Creek Rd [wink11] ...the slots were booked out within a couple of hours. [bigwhistle]

[Xtreme]

Wednesday 9th Feb at Glenworth Valley (NSW)
Received email yesterday, registered and received booking options email this morning. Responded immediately and got first time slot that I applied for.

[4runnernomore]

I think this is one of the best reviews yet I’ve seen so far. INEOS GRENADIER I We Drive "init" - YouTube (https://youtu.be/JAoZEcbGyCU)

from South Africa, gents presenting are larrikans and quite funny. They have raised some excellent questions and were actually getting answers from the Grenadier team.

interesting points were the aftermarket manufacturers already gaining access to the vehicle to develop accessories.

One thing I haven’t heard yet is will there be an option for alternate gearing (R&P’s) to suit larger tyres.

Best thing seen in the whole clip i is the blue Grenadier with white hilights and aftermarket wheels and tyres on display. Yep sitting on 35’s and looks awesome. That’s was my colour choice any way, blue with the white roof. And with the white /cream hilights it looks even better in my opinion.

the more I see the more I think this will be sitting in my driveway.

cheers 🍻

[Tombie]

See it’s been playing in our local floods at the moment!

[ozscott]

Yeah saw that flood play. Looks in its element. Cheers

[ozscott]

I think this is one of the best reviews yet I’ve seen so far. INEOS GRENADIER I We Drive "init" - YouTube (https://youtu.be/JAoZEcbGyCU)

from South Africa, gents presenting are larrikans and quite funny. They have raised some excellent questions and were actually getting answers from the Grenadier team.

interesting points were the aftermarket manufacturers already gaining access to the vehicle to develop accessories.

One thing I haven’t heard yet is will there be an option for alternate gearing (R&P’s) to suit larger tyres.

Best thing seen in the whole clip i is the blue Grenadier with white hilights and aftermarket wheels and tyres on display. Yep sitting on 35’s and looks awesome. That’s was my colour choice any way, blue with the white roof. And with the white /cream hilights it looks even better in my opinion.

the more I see the more I think this will be sitting in my driveway.

cheers 🍻

Thanks for posting this. Good vid. I am Impressed with the vehicle and design overall, but also with the candour so far of the company about what is still in development and certain shortcomings. I think it is also fantastic to see a company openly stating that lifting the vehicle (presumably there will be some limits to this) will not cause any issues with warranty and presumably also this would also apply to a modest increase in tyre size. I am very excited about seeing the production vehicles being tested. Currently it does not appeal to me due to the amount of room that I need but who knows down the track when this just two of us touring Australia.

Cheers

[WhiteD3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dx3_4fqxDs&t=96s

Good advert for the car's capabilities and another fine example of stupidity on the road. I wonder what a swift water rescue (or worse) would do for the brand.

[Tombie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dx3_4fqxDs&t=96s

Good advert for the car's capabilities and another fine example of stupidity on the road. I wonder what a swift water rescue (or worse) would do for the brand.

No stupidity at all.
They waited as directed and then were given approval to pass through.

[Tombie]

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[Tombie]

Currently fuel tank is 90l - can see it ratchet strapped in place. No spec on final size yet.

Seating room is spacious- it’s wide - like D4 wide - and the leg room is insanely good.

Rear passenger leg room is double a D4, with front seats fully back there’s still a good 8-10” of space to back of seat. At that point the front passenger struggles to reach the grab bar on the dash.

Handling - so far seems nice. Soaked up tracks and articulation as expected is very compliant.

Does it go… hell yes! And given it’s a prototype was quite quiet under mechanical demand. The 8 speed is well tuned and was flawless.

Interior is Untrimmed in prototype, has some nice features like quick connect mounts for cargo barriers/nets etc and tied down rails in the rear are great.

Roof can hold 200kg without a rack - using the side rails to lash to.

Underbody quite well protected. Lots of evidence of testing still holding up well.

Back doors squeaked like the old split troopy, I’m told they’ve upgraded the locks and hinges on the commercial units. Split door looks odd but would be handy for throwing in those smaller items quickly.

[loanrangie]

Currently fuel tank is 90l - can see it ratchet strapped in place. No spec on final size yet.

Seating room is spacious- it’s wide - like D4 wide - and the leg room is insanely good.

Rear passenger leg room is double a D4, with front seats fully back there’s still a good 8-10” of space to back of seat. At that point the front passenger struggles to reach the grab bar on the dash.

Handling - so far seems nice. Soaked up tracks and articulation as expected is very compliant.

Does it go… hell yes! And given it’s a prototype was quite quiet under mechanical demand. The 8 speed is well tuned and was flawless.

Interior is Untrimmed in prototype, has some nice features like quick connect mounts for cargo barriers/nets etc and tied down rails in the rear are great.

Roof can hold 200kg without a rack - using the side rails to lash to.

Underbody quite well protected. Lots of evidence of testing still holding up well.

Back doors squeaked like the old split troopy, I’m told they’ve upgraded the locks and hinges on the commercial units. Split door looks odd but would be handy for throwing in those smaller items quickly.


Essentially everything the new Defender could have been bar the EAS, LR should have developed the D4 chassis for next defender use.

[ramblingboy42]

Loanrangie , why do you think they didn't?

Surely if it was viable they would have.

[loanrangie]

Loanrangie , why do you think they didn't?

Surely if it was viable they would have.

They had already developed the monocoque chassis for the D5 and wanted to expand on it, the chassis was available at the D4's end of life in 2016 and it shares the same wheelbase as the L663 - hhmmm.

[chuck]

Saw one on South African review with 35's - looked good

Great they are talking to 4x4 accessory manufactures and that fitting their accessories with in reason wont void warranty.

50mm lift with 285 70 17's would make this ideal with other factory options ticked i.e. winch, snorkel, diff locks etc.

The only problem i could see is that might be restricted to light bar as traditional driving lights may obscure inset high beams

Those of you that have seen one in the flesh may differ.

[ozscott]

Loanrangie , why do you think they didn't?

Surely if it was viable they would have.Not sure but suspect their 'direction' changed (unfortunately in my view). My bet is the Grenadier will sell in numbers such that it will be viable and it is a company keen to get it right at all levels. Option one up fully and I dare say it will be $100k on the road but given its build and what those accessories are (including 17 inch steel wheel options with agressive all terrains etc, bull bar etc) i would much rather that over what the $100k would buy in any Land Rover current product.

Cheers

[Tombie]

Not sure but suspect their 'direction' changed (unfortunately in my view). My bet is the Grenadier will sell in numbers such that it will be viable and it is a company keen to get it right at all levels. Option one up fully and I dare say it will be $100k on the road but given its build and what those accessories are (including 17 inch steel wheel options with agressive all terrains etc, bull bar etc) i would much rather that over what the $100k would buy in any Land Rover current product.

Cheers

Grenadier recovered several vehicles from a nearby mining company in the floods.

GM has signed a MOU to purchase their future fleet from them.

[spudfan]

[QUOTE=Tombie;3130438]Sitting in both the front and back - it’s much larger by comparison.

No squash against B pillars, significant leg room for both front and rear passengers.

When I was in the back - 3 full width seats - Em had the front seat set for her with plenty of room. I had about 10 inches between my knees and the back of her seat.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Eh, well, err......puts the rest of us poor mortals to shame[bigwhistle]

[Tombie]

She wishes!

Hung like a cashew [emoji41]

[Gav 110]

She wishes!

Hung like a cashew [emoji41]

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[emoji848][emoji848]

[Hoges]

Went out to the Scenic Rim Adventure Park on Tamrookum Creek Rd, Sth of Beaudesert last Friday afternoon for a look-see. Came away somewhat impressed [thumbsupbig] at the comfort and suppleness of the ride. It has ample power...
It is truly an engineering prototype in every sense of the word in terms of the cabin layout...the fascia is 3D printed to give an idea of ergonomics etc. The windows are electric but the seats are "totally manual". There's no certainty at this stage about what's included in the base model... there's a school of thought that there might be three levels of fit-out to reduce production costs ...that will be announced in the next three months on their website "configurator"...

After wading through the flood waters in Sth Aust the week prior, the vehicle had been driven to Beaudesert via Mildura and Goondiwindi. It has a 90 litre fuel tank. Based on the reported top-up stops of the journey, we calculated the range is comfortably (very) in excess of 1,000 km. The B57 BMW inline6 diesel and the 8sp ZF auto seem well matched.

In July, the first run of "production" vehicles will be assembled and despatched to the UK, Australia and Sth Africa for Ineos execs and Agents for public test drives.

They're talking in terms of producing a minimum of 30,000 vehicles per year initially and ramping up. US vehicles are not scheduled until late 2023 and they're not intending to offer the Nth American market a diesel version... At this stage, local customer deliveries are slated for late October 2022... What with the current European geo-political tensions this might be wishful thinking if energy supplies are interrupted...

[Hoges]

I think this is one of the best reviews yet I’ve seen so far. INEOS GRENADIER I We Drive "init" - YouTube (https://youtu.be/JAoZEcbGyCU)

from South Africa, gents presenting are larrikans and quite funny. They have raised some excellent questions and were actually getting answers from the Grenadier team.

interesting points were the aftermarket manufacturers already gaining access to the vehicle to develop accessories.

One thing I haven’t heard yet is will there be an option for alternate gearing (R&P’s) to suit larger tyres.

Best thing seen in the whole clip i is the blue Grenadier with white hilights and aftermarket wheels and tyres on display. Yep sitting on 35’s and looks awesome. That’s was my colour choice any way, blue with the white roof. And with the white /cream hilights it looks even better in my opinion.

the more I see the more I think this will be sitting in my driveway.

cheers 🍻

One of the gents in our group last Friday asked a similar question about diff ratios . The short answer was "No". The Ineos rep went on to explain the data they're collecting on the vehicle. I hadn't realised just how much engineering effort was being put into "optimising" the 'tune' of the engine with respect to the behaviour of the ZF transmission based on standard overall wheel size -either 17"or 18" rim. The overwhelming advice from the Ineos group that day was to opt for 17"steel wheels! The organisation is in discussions with ARB/OMEmu about after market add-ons including a potential 50mm lift (std clearance is 258mm) but for clearance enhancement, not larger wheel/tyre combination...which would then impact the optimisation referred to above. The other issue was that larger tyres increase stresses on axles etc and while they're being built for tough conditions, so-called hard core 4WDing is not part of the design. The existing design in standard form apparently will accommodate a 50mm lift without worrying for example about longer brake lines or significant changes to steering or drive train geometry! They also ruled out air suspension at the beginning because of potential long term reliability / getting "stuck" and unable to get "home"!

[Tombie]

American spec engine bay (Petrol version)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220202/9f57c523e81404b7a24e18af186f4a06.jpg

[Gav 110]

American spec engine bay (Petrol version)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220202/9f57c523e81404b7a24e18af186f4a06.jpg

You can tell it’s the American version
The Adams family hand has snuck in for a look (feel)

[spudfan]

You can tell it’s the American version
The Adams family hand has snuck in for a look (feel)
I recognise the power steering fluid reservoir. Looks like the Defender unit.

[tc_s1]

North America needs a diesel variant, IMO. I know at least one sale they can make. [emoji106]
Went out to the Scenic Rim Adventure Park on Tamrookum Creek Rd, Sth of Beaudesert last Friday afternoon for a look-see. Came away somewhat impressed [thumbsupbig] at the comfort and suppleness of the ride. It has ample power...
It is truly an engineering prototype in every sense of the word in terms of the cabin layout...the fascia is 3D printed to give an idea of ergonomics etc. The windows are electric but the seats are "totally manual". There's no certainty at this stage about what's included in the base model... there's a school of thought that there might be three levels of fit-out to reduce production costs ...that will be announced in the next three months on their website "configurator"...

After wading through the flood waters in Sth Aust the week prior, the vehicle had been driven to Beaudesert via Mildura and Goondiwindi. It has a 90 litre fuel tank. Based on the reported top-up stops of the journey, we calculated the range is comfortably (very) in excess of 1,000 km. The B57 BMW inline6 diesel and the 8sp ZF auto seem well matched.

In July, the first run of "production" vehicles will be assembled and despatched to the UK, Australia and Sth Africa for Ineos execs and Agents for public test drives.

They're talking in terms of producing a minimum of 30,000 vehicles per year initially and ramping up. US vehicles are not scheduled until late 2023 and they're not intending to offer the Nth American market a diesel version... At this stage, local customer deliveries are slated for late October 2022... What with the current European geo-political tensions this might be wishful thinking if energy supplies are interrupted...

[Gav 110]

I recognise the power steering fluid reservoir. Looks like the Defender unit.
Hey Spud, I think your right

Did Hand point that out to you?[emoji12]

Maybe INEOS have picked up all the Land Rover leftovers cheap (I wonder what else is common with Land Rover) or maybe it’s a standard part for many makes of car??

[emoji481][emoji481]
Gav

[scarry]

Hey Spud, I think your right

(I wonder what else is common with Land Rover)

[emoji481][emoji481]
Gav

Some probably hope not much[wink11][biggrin]

The whole thing does look very Defenderish though.

[DiscoDB]

I recognise the power steering fluid reservoir. Looks like the Defender unit.

….which coincidently also looks like a BMW one….

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220203/b265c8a8aabc104b6e822564848cefec.jpg

[ozscott]

You can tell it’s the American version
The Adams family hand has snuck in for a look (feel)Same as Disco 1 also. Cheers

[Don 130]

It's a ZF one.
Don

[DiscoDB]

When I look at the Grenadier I think this is the Defender that BMW would have produced to take on the Mercedes G wagon if it still owned LR (and definitely would have sent them bankrupt in the process).

[spudfan]

When I look at the Grenadier I think this is the Defender that BMW would have produced to take on the Mercedes G wagon if it still owned LR (and definitely would have sent them bankrupt in the process).
I remember when BMW got control of Land Rover as part of a deal, they could not get their head around the live beam axles. These and all they implied were completely alien to the way they built cars. Fair enough they just got in before the TD5 came out and probably had some input into that but most of that had been sorted before BMW arrived on the scene. Personally I do not think BMW had the wish to develop a vehicle akin to the Defender to compete with the G Wagen as they were glad to off load Land Rover and stick at what they knew best. If they were interested in that line of vehicle they no doubt had the resources to go that route if they desired.

[Hoges]

North America needs a diesel variant, IMO. I know at least one sale they can make. [emoji106]

From the "For What it's Worth" Dept : there's a comment on another forum reporting a conversation during a 'walk-around' day in the US where the Ineos representative stated that Ineos was advised that it would be up for many millions of dollars to gain EPA approval to incorporate the BMW diesel in their offering, so they decided against it. (I personally do not know whether BMW offer a diesel version of the X5 or other models in the US).

[Tombie]

So…. Whilst cautiously looking at these, and mildly sad that the vehicle is so much of a clone of a defender - have ordered one!

[Tote]

So…. Whilst cautiously looking at these, and mildly sad that the vehicle is so much of a clone of a defender - have ordered one!

Drinking beer at Burra didn't influence your decision did it?


Regards,
Tote

[DiscoDB]

So…. Whilst cautiously looking at these, and mildly sad that the vehicle is so much of a clone of a defender - have ordered one!

Given you were so close to getting a New Defender, this is probably quite telling.

So will you go with the Diesel or Petrol? Both would be very nice motors.

[chuck]

The more i look at them, the more i like them.

The telling point will be what they end up costing with the options.

Is $85K including on road costs?

For example;
1. Lockers
2. Winch
3. Snorkel
4. Leather
5. Ladder
6. Spare wheel storage
7. Internal storage / arm rest
8. compass

[tc_s1]

I suppose one could order, sell the engine as new, and put one of the Cummins crate diesel options in its place, if one were so inclined.
From the "For What it's Worth" Dept : there's a comment on another forum reporting a conversation during a 'walk-around' day in the US where the Ineos representative stated that Ineos was advised that it would be up for many millions of dollars to gain EPA approval to incorporate the BMW diesel in their offering, so they decided against it. (I personally do not know whether BMW offer a diesel version of the X5 or other models in the US).

[ozscott]

The more i look at them, the more i like them.

The telling point will be what they end up costing with the options.

Is $85K including on road costs?

For example;
1. Lockers
2. Winch
3. Snorkel
4. Leather
5. Ladder
6. Spare wheel storage
7. Internal storage / arm rest
8. compassAt a guestimate i reckon you have specified a 100k vehicle approx mate. Lot of vehicle for the 6 figures though.

Cheers

[ozscott]

I suppose one could order, sell the engine as new, and put one of the Cummins crate diesel options in its place, if one were so inclined.I reckon the BMW straight 6 diesel will be great. I wouldn't change it. If it self diagnoses is set up in line with what an offroader should be (ie not too sensitive...and it is just programming). Cheers

[Tombie]

I reckon the BMW straight 6 diesel will be great. I wouldn't change it. If it self diagnoses is set up in line with what an offroader should be (ie not too sensitive...and it is just programming). Cheers

Won’t be available to him in the USA though.
They’re only getting the turbo petrol.

[Hoges]

Won’t be available to him in the USA though.
They’re only getting the turbo petrol.

It appears that BMW 2018 models were the last that BMW-US offered with a diesel option...they then ceased importing diesels to the USA due to low sales (some of which was attributed to a fall out from the VW diesel scandal) plus increased regulatory requirements. BMW e-cars and hybrids are the "go" [wink11]

[Robmacca]

Well, I was lucky enough to be invited to the Ineos Grenadier Queensland outing and all I can say is "I'm impressed"


Had a good opportunity to talk to the Ineos crew and go for a ride around the 4wd park. I was greatly surprised in the comfy level while driving over some rough terrain and the pickup speed when the driver planted his right foot - very impressive. For me, its what the new Defender should have been but it's probably a good thing that someone other than LR built this...


A couple of things I was (& still are) concerned with it the fuel range and the fitment of LR tanks. They say ARB will develop something but looking at the number of vehicles allotted to Australia in 2022 (only 200>300), I can't see anything being developed in the short term...
The other thing was the rear bash plate protecting the rear East/West Muffler with dual exhausts. To me, this would act as a scoop in Mud/sand. I asked the question to the Ineos crew and they said that hasn't been the case to date. Also, one of them said it would be a simple case of removing the BIG muffler and replace with a smaller one mounted North/South which would leave a big hole to mount either a water or fuel tank...


Anyway, here's a link to some photos I took from the day (hopefully the link works)


Oh, btw: The other thing I forgot to mention is that it is shorter than my Defender in regards to being able to sleep in the back. I'm around 6" in height and when I tried to lie (in a straight line) in the rear I had my feet/toes hanging out the back door... This may be solved by pushing the front seats forward - but I'm not sure...


Ineos Grenadier Qld Day outing Photos (https://photos.app.goo.gl/pfCP6uPsh4zkkZWs5)

[Tombie]

By the look of it those front seats are almost all the way back and can go forward a lot and still be comfy for driving position.

However, I agree the focus seems more on passenger space than rear cargo space vs the defenders big back and knee killing second row and compact front position.

[simonmelb]

Looks good. The only things I would miss in the D2 that are not in the Grenadier are:
* separate temp controls for driver and passenger - use this all the time.
* SLS - but I assume Ineos have done lots of development on their progressive rate coils to manage the ~1 T payload.

Trying hard to think of why I don’t want one, but I’m struggling!

[Hoges]

Thanks for your report and pics Robmacca:BigThumb:
Re. the fuel range... I went on 28 Jan and the Ineos chaps were talking about the 'pressure' to get the vehicle from Sth Australia (Tarcoola) in time for the scheduled demos at the Scenic Rim Adventure Park, given the delays due to the floods. Most of the fellows flew from Adelaide to Brisbane. They only had three or so days to get the vehicle to Queensland and one of the team (who wasn't there on the day) did most of the driving ... I got the distinct impression that he did it by himself although there may have been a passenger. One of the fellows was quite specific that the driver had "topped up in Mildura" and then "topped up again in Goondiwindi"!! I didn't comment at the time, but that's 1,300 km. It has a 90L (nominal) capacity. Assuming he had 5L min at Goondiwindi remaining that's at least 85/13 = 6.6L/100km. As I said, that was the "scuttlebutt" amongst the crew when I asked about the trip to Beaudesert .... that's not bad range for a 'prototype'!

[Xtreme]

Thanks for your report and pics Robmacca:BigThumb:
Re. the fuel range... I went on 28 Jan and the Ineos chaps were talking about the 'pressure' to get the vehicle from Sth Australia (Tarcoola) in time for the scheduled demos at the Scenic Rim Adventure Park, given the delays due to the floods. Most of the fellows flew from Adelaide to Brisbane. They only had three or so days to get the vehicle to Queensland and one of the team (who wasn't there on the day) did most of the driving ... I got the distinct impression that he did it by himself although there may have been a passenger. One of the fellows was quite specific that the driver had "topped up in Mildura" and then "topped up again in Goondiwindi"!! I didn't comment at the time, but that's 1,300 km. It has a 90L (nominal) capacity. Assuming he had 5L min at Goondiwindi remaining that's at least 85/13 = 6.6L/100km. As I said, that was the "scuttlebutt" amongst the crew when I asked about the trip to Beaudesert .... that's not bad range for a 'prototype'!

I was at Glenworth Valley today and spoke to Rick Bates who was the one who drove the Grenadier from SA to Qld. I enquired about fuel consumption and he referred to that trip - he wasn't mucking around and although the vehicle is limited to 110kph he said that he managed to get somewhat more than that out of it. Re the fuel, he actually refuelled at Coonabarabran and said that he got about 10.8l/100km, Coona..... is 908km from Mildura, I'm not sure how much fuel he put in but with a capacity of 95 litres, if he was running 'on the smell of an oily rag' then he returned 10.5 l/100k. Probably no load though, apart from an overnight bag.

I also enquired about consumption off-road and he thought it was probably similar.

Interesting day today and there was a nice looking Perenti stalking around, keeping an eye on things..........:whistling:

https://www.aulro.com/app/data/1462/medium/IMG20220209133042.jpg

[Hoges]

many thanks Roger for the clarification... the non-stop effort to Goondiwindi seemed to be a tad optimistic but that's what I gleaned. It's still pretty good economy nevertheless at those speeds with a drag coefficient of a brick! [biggrin]. Rick Bates eh. as in the rally champ? Excellent!! Ineos seem to be not mucking around in terms of the experienced talent they've recruited locally to get the show well and truly established. What struck me was the genuine, dare I say 'infectious' enthusiasm and excitement the Ineos hosts displayed on the day I attended towards their opportunity to establish the 'brand' in Australia.

[JDNSW]

That fuel consumption is only slightly better than I got from the County driving non-stop from Melbourne to here (it has an aux. tank).....with nearly 700,000km on the engine.

[scarry]

What does it weigh,its weight that increases the fuel burn?

I am guessing something like 2.6T,at least,so fuel economy pretty similar to other late model vehicles around same sort of weight,in real life driving.

[Xtreme]

After arriving at Glenworth Valley yesterday and registering we had time to talk to the Grenadier people and have a close look at the vehicle before being driven around a dirt track by Rick Bates. Rick’s driver training & rally expertise keeps him in demand around the world. He has even donned the famous white suit appearing as ‘The Stig’ on Australia’s Top Gear. Rick is one of Australia’s most experienced off-road drivers.

Overall, I was very impressed with the vehicle:-

Pros:


Comfortable Recaro seating
Range of approx. 900km with standard 95 litre tank
Approach & departure angles
Ground clearance (265mm)
View from driver’s seat - after various adjustments.
Proven engine & transmission with adequate power & torque
Heavy duty proven drive train, with optional diff locks
Underbody protection
Internal & external tie down points
Rear passenger legroom

Cons:-


Rear load space – only about 950mm from rear seats to rear doors. Would prefer to sacrifice some of the rear passenger leg room to gain increase in rear load space. Unfortunately I didn't take the opportunity to fold the rear seats forward and measure the increased load space. However, from other's pictures, the seats appear to fold quite well.



The smaller of the split rear doors is IMHO too narrow to access rear load space.


The fact that Ineos only brought one Grenadier to Australia for these drive days and testing says a lot for their confidence in the reliability of the vehicle. And they've given it a bit of unplanned extra work due to the flooding they encountered in SA - Towing a broken (due to water ingress to engine) Pajero, towing a 2.5 ton generator out of a mine (which the Pajero was sent to do - shouldn't have sent a boy to do a mans job!) and the express 2,300km run from SA to Qld.

I haven't ordered one .................................................. ........... yet [bighmmm] :whistling:

[ramblingboy42]

well I can't see any problem with a range of 900+km

thats the approx range of my vehicle and nowadays there is fuel available all over Australia every 4-500km

long range tanks are a waste of space and weight , I've carried 1 x 20litre jerry all over Australia and never had to open it..

[Xtreme]

well I can't see any problem with a range of 900+km

thats the approx range of my vehicle and nowadays there is fuel available all over Australia every 4-500km

long range tanks are a waste of space and weight , I've carried 1 x 20litre jerry all over Australia and never had to open it..

Spot on - it's like numerous accessories that people fit to 4WD's that usually cost an arm and a leg but are very seldom needed/used.

[Robmacca]

well I can't see any problem with a range of 900+km

thats the approx range of my vehicle and nowadays there is fuel available all over Australia every 4-500km

long range tanks are a waste of space and weight , I've carried 1 x 20litre jerry all over Australia and never had to open it..

That really depends on what u want to do with it and where u want to drive the vehicle (ie: Remote off-track desert driving). I know from my trip last year that 95ltrs would not be enough and when u have to use valuable cargo space to carry jerrycans inside the vehicle, that is not ideal. I guess u could carry them on the roof but that creates other issues...

btw: the Dynamic Roofack limit I was told would be 100kgs but they could not tell me the static rating... I asked the Ineos guy if there was a fair bit of a safety margin built into those figures... he just nodded his head ;)

[scarry]

well I can't see any problem with a range of 900+km

thats the approx range of my vehicle and nowadays there is fuel available all over Australia every 4-500km

long range tanks are a waste of space and weight , I've carried 1 x 20litre jerry all over Australia and never had to open it..

It won’t have a 900 km range off road,or loaded or towing.

I have used two out of 3 jerrys on trips and they are a nuisance.

The vehicle we have now has a large tank,once you have one,you will find it very convenient,depending where you travel.

For towing the big weights they are generally a very convenient necessity.

Anyway,a bit like EV’s,they suit some more than others.[wink11][biggrin]

[Tins]

900 k range is fine for the highway, but for the CSR not so much.

but consider something else. 20 years ago I was driving back from Perth in a dual fuel Ford. I filled both tanks in Perth. I was driving on gas which was getting low at Coclebiddy, so I thought I’d fill it until I saw that the price for gas was considerably more than I had paid for petrol in Perth. My point is that fuel costs way more in remote locations and right now diesel is nearly $1.80 in the city. Carrying extra fuel can save $$&

[Vern]

900 k range is fine for the highway, but for the CSR not so much.


2 jerry cans, or a fuel drop at well 23 and you will make it easily

[Tins]

2 jerry cans, or a fuel drop at well 23 and you will make it easily

Yes, but that's the point.

[Vern]

Yes, but that's the point.So no different to any other car then

[Robmacca]

2 jerry cans, or a fuel drop at well 23 and you will make it easily

I wasn't aware that they still did this... Good to know if they still do though ;)

[Robmacca]

Spot on - it's like numerous accessories that people fit to 4WD's that usually cost an arm and a leg but are very seldom needed/used.

This maybe to true to some extent but I don't believe LR fuel tanks fall into that category. They can be used wisely to save money when the fuel price is high. It's safer and the weight is kept low.
Over the past +35yrs of driving 4WD's, LR fuel tanks is one of the first mods that I always look at doing due to the benefits. Having the security of knowing that u can go exploring down a lot of tracks and usually not worry about running out of fuel is a big benefit... As I said, it depends on how/what you use your vehicle for...

[JDNSW]

Both my Landrovers have extra tanks - the 2a left and right, the County has a 60l belly tank (the Isuzu exhaust system is entirely outside the chassis, so the vacant space begs to be used!). Life would be far more difficult without these extra tanks.

For example, one of my regular trips is about 1000km, my son's place in Melbourne to here. It is a real advantage being able to do it either without stopping or at least being able to stop and eat the lunch I brought with me without having to get fuel. Especially with covid, it is a real advantage being able to do eight or more round trips to town without having to make the extra stop for fuel.

Any new vehicle the most important extra would be more range.

[Tins]

So no different to any other car then

Indeed, no. But the point being made earlier was that LR tanks are a waste of money and weight. I disagree.

[cripesamighty]

My D1 had 110L of useable fuel in the larger main tank and had twin jerry can holders on the rear bar (so 150L total), and my D3 came fitted with a LR tank holding 190L of useable fuel. While I rarely used the D1's jerry can holders and usually just top up 100L in the D3, there have been a few times when the extra fuel on long trips has come in mighty handy. Think long detours when roads were flooded out and doing lots of driving over several days in Low-Range whilst in the middle of nowhere. I don't think a long range tank is essential, but more of a convenient, 'nice-to-have', if available. Personally, I would like the option of a LR tank on a Grenadier if I was in the market for one.

[ozscott]

I get over 900klms from a 75 litre tank in my Triton - 7.0 to 7.5 litres per 100klm on the highway. Towing my 1 tonn boat at 105kph average I get about 10.5 litres per 100klm on relatively flat highways. Having said that fully laden and towing, with a large tent on the roof etc that would probably go to 12 per 100k. I have thought about long range tanks. There are a few to choose from. Brown and Davis probably do the best although even then you hear off the odd issue. Departure and approach angles are preserved however they do tend to sit lower and are more vulnerable than the stock tanks. For now I will probably stick with the 2 (or 3) x 22l jerry cans in the back and the Flow-N-Go to fill the main tank from the tub straight into the main filler...pretty easy, safe and mess free as a diesel. Another reason I am liking the ute (with canopy) over the wagon - no fumes and safer for fuel storage. Cheers

[Tins]

and my D3 came fitted with a LR tank holding 190L of useable fuel.

Strewth. That's only a little less than my Oka carries.

[cripesamighty]

The previous owner of my D3 told me it had a long range tank but neglected to tell me the total volume, merely saying he put in 100L at a time around the city. I thought cool, I get roughly an extra 20L over a standard tank. So, I waited until the fuel light came on before I filled up for the first time to gauge it's total capacity. As soon as I hit the 100L mark I proceeded to do a slow top up, and you can imagine my surprise when it just kept going, and going and going...

[Xtreme]

I think we need a new thread - Auxilliary fuel tanks Yes or No.
Then this thread might get back on track re the Ineos Grenadier :whistling:

[Gav 110]

I think we need a new thread - Auxilliary fuel tanks Yes or No.
Then this thread might get back on track re the Ineos Grenadier :whistling:

Have you not read the fine print behind the thread title
I’m sure if I put my glasses on it says Long Range Tanks in there somewhere [emoji12]

[Xtreme]

Have you not read the fine print behind the thread title
I’m sure if I put my glasses on it says Long Range Tanks in there somewhere [emoji12]

I did read "do you reckon it'll take off? (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/european-manufactured/253877-ineos-grenadier-do-you-reckon-itll-take-off-49.html)" but thankfully I haven't read any aeronautical discussion. :whistling:

[Tins]

I think we need a new thread - Auxilliary fuel tanks Yes or No.
Then this thread might get back on track re the Ineos Grenadier :whistling:

When was the last time that you saw a thread remain on topic?

[DiscoDB]

When was the last time that you saw a thread remain on topic?

My rule of thumb - if a thread has passed 100 posts, then you should be able to go off topic! After 100 replies to the OP you are adding very little to the overall discussion. [emoji41]

[Tins]

My rule of thumb - if a thread has passed 100 posts, then you should be able to go off topic! After 100 replies to the OP you are adding very little to the overall discussion. [emoji41]

So I guess this one passes that litmus test.

Gav ( Homestar ) started one of my favourite threads on AULRO, about this. Threads that go off topic - here and other forums. (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/222093-threads-go-off-topic-here-other-forums-494.html)

Hours of fun.

[goingbush]

I have not read this entire thread,
I was all for the Grenadier but lost interest when I found out how heavy they were.
Between 2600 & 2700kg , what are they thinking, they will be awesome offload - NOT. Strip all the crap out & try again.
Heavier than the new Lardarse Defender. The Iveco Daily 4x4 is only 2750kg. The Landcruiser 300 Series on only 2495kg FFS.

[simonmelb]

Hmm…. About 1/2 Ton more than a D2 for only slightly more room….


I have not read this entire thread,
I was all for the Grenadier but lost interest when I found out how heavy they were.
Between 2600 & 2700kg , what are they thinking, they will be awesome offload - NOT. Strip all the crap out & try again.
Heavier than the new Lardarse Defender. The Iveco Daily 4x4 is only 2750kg. The Landcruiser 300 Series on only 2495kg FFS.

[Tins]

Seems to depend on who's talking. The 2600-2700 figure seems to be referring to the prototype at it's current point of development.


Heilmann puts its kerb weight at somewhere between 2600 and 2700kg in the development phase it finds itself in right now,

(Source: https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2021-ineos-grenadier-prototype-review/)


The Grenadier Wagon is expected to have a kerb weight around 2500kg, with a one-tonne payload and 3500kg maximum braked towing capacity.

( Source: Unsealed 4X4 - All-new INEOS Grenadier 4x4 wagon and ute here soon from around $80k! (https://unsealed4x4.com.au/all-new-ineos-grenadier-4x4-wagon-and-ute-here-soon-from-around-80k/))

And if that article has got the price about right..... If I was in the market the Grenadier would be much higher on my list than the LC300, the new Defender or any of the LC 7x things. But hey, I have an OKA which weighs twice as much, so what do I know?

Interesting that Ineos sees alternative power as the Grenadier's future.

[Xtreme]

.....................................

Interesting that Ineos sees alternative power as the Grenadier's future.

And, according to the Ineos marketing manager last week, that "alternative power" is hydrogen, not electric.

[Tins]

And, according to the Ineos marketing manager last week, that "alternative power" is hydrogen, not electric.

Good.

[ramblingboy42]

see....back on track.... easy

yes what will this thing weigh when you load it up for a 2wk bush trip?

[Tins]

see....back on track.... easy

yes what will this thing weigh when you load it up for a 2wk bush trip?

Given that a D4 has a kerb weight of 2583kg (HSE: Land Rover Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 245HP HSE Technical Specs, Dimensions (https://www.ultimatespecs.com/car-specs/Land-Rover/13439/Land-Rover-Discovery-4-30-SDV6-245HP-HSE.html)) the Grenadier will weigh about the same as a D4 loaded the same. However the Grenadier has a greater payload so I guess it could get heavier.

[Tote]

see....back on track.... easy

yes what will this thing weigh when you load it up for a 2wk bush trip?

In comparison My 130 has a kerb weight of 1893KG with no driver, add a 200KG tray a couple of passengers and it will pretty quickly get to 2600KG, although at the kerb weight it does have a load capacity of 1600KG. But it has basically no structural integrity in the cab or rollover protection, minimal sound proofing etc, so 2600 for the Grenadier as a touring weight is not unreasonable.

Regards,
Tote

[scarry]

And, according to the Ineos marketing manager last week, that "alternative power" is hydrogen, not electric.

Fuel cell technology,at a guess?

Which is the only way,EV wont suit the majority of the target market.

Toyota are going the same way with LC.
They are years ahead of the others,having had fuel cell vehicles on the road for over 12 yrs in the US.

[Tins]

Fuel cell technology,at a guess?

Which is the only way,EV wont suit the majority of the target market.

Toyota are going the same way with LC.
They are years ahead of the others,having had fuel cell vehicles on the road for over 12 yrs in the US.
This technology is also being explored by the maker of the new OKA vehicles as well. Currently it’s the only alternative source that makes sense for such a vehicle.