Sand Driving

[Jimlr]

Have read Gordon’s handbook and much wisdom here, and have done the beach/dunes numerous times, yet I still have a question about how the late model D4 performs in sand driving ... not sure if this was discussed here recently or not ....can’t find it.
Basically it does seem that the engine revs higher for longer when running along the beach, even on the hard packed stuff, the car seems reluctant to change up a gear or two. Seems to sit at 2500-3000, in D with DSC off and Sand mode, all done in the right order.
In the soft stuff I understand that it needs to wheelspin a bit and therefore hold onto the gears, but doesn’t explain its behaviour on the harder sand.
Are the MY14+ cars setup differently, or is there another driving technique not documented?

[TB]

In my Disco Sport I find the same thing. Sand mode just holds higher revs all the time, and if you’ve got the transmission in D then that’s probably the smart thing for it to do. When I get on the harder stuff I switch to S and just manually bump the gears. You gotta pay a lot more attention than on the highway though.

[TuffRR]

Sand mode changes the gearshift mapping (ie shift points) so it holds onto a gear for longer. The car doesn't necessarily know whether the sand you are on is soft, hard or in between (it probably could actually), so it just has the one set of shift patterns for sand mode. Perfectly normal.

[DiscoJeffster]

The transmission change points relate to the mode selected, not to the traction underfoot. If you select sand it will hold gears longer to maximise torque and power. This is irrespective of the current traction available. Select road/normal if you’re on hard pack and want to rev lower. That is what I do - just remember to slow and switch back!

[l00kin4]

Select road/normal if you’re on hard pack and want to rev lower. That is what I do - just remember to slow and switch back!
+1

[Tombie]

Or throw it in Manual and choose your own [emoji6]

[crawal]

And dont listen to the passengers to "slow down , turn here , watch that " you end up bogged ...[bigsad]

[Jimlr]

Back to normal mode sounds like a good plan! Thanks all!

[Milton477]

I forgot to switch back the other day. Got a bit interesting...[bigwhistle]

[trout1105]

I believe that 90% of sand driving relies on the correct tyre pressure/choice and momentum, get those right first then worry about mode selection [thumbsupbig]

[PerthDisco]

I believe that 90% of sand driving relies on the correct tyre pressure/choice and momentum, get those right first then worry about mode selection [thumbsupbig]

Takes me back to my first car a Subaru 1800 wagon with only single range. With lowered tyre pressure that baby could go anywhere in the Lancelin dunes but golden rule was always to stop on a down hill!

[scomac]

Quote: "Are the MY14+ cars setup differently, or is there another driving technique not documented?"

Yes it called low range sand mode. When I get onto a beach Its straight into Low Range and use 3rd or 4th. With the right tyre pressures you don't need to go any faster. Enjoy the scenery! In saying that we don't have too many hard packed beaches here in WA.

I was on the beach in Coral Bay a few years back, and after recovering a Prado and Hilux, (which were not quite on the beach yet) I drove down onto the beach with TP at 15 Psi Low range 4th sand mode and crawled along no problem, very very soft sand..... Then 3 Pajeros came screaming along high up the beach at approx 80k's.
sand flying everywhere, how they didn't roll it or a tyre is beyond me! I heard one of them say something like "look at that idiot, he gonna get bogged down there" Anyway I'm rambling now.
Cheers
Scott.

[timax]

Im also interested in how a D4 is on the sand with standard tyres.
I have a TD5 Defender at the moment with an Auto transmission . It is fantastic in the sand due to the 85 series tyres and light weight. We have never been stuck and often pass heavier cars that are.
We are thinking of Buying a D4.
SO the D4 has low profile tyres and is much heavier.
What id like to know is are there any of you who are experienced in the sand with a D4 and can give some pointers.
Do the tyres bag at all? Im guessing not. And what about the Compomotive rims with 18 in tyres. I imagine they bag a little more but is it enough.
Tim

[Crofty]

Im also interested in how a D4 is on the sand with standard tyres.
I have a TD5 Defender at the moment with an Auto transmission . It is fantastic in the sand due to the 85 series tyres and light weight. We have never been stuck and often pass heavier cars that are.
We are thinking of Buying a D4.
SO the D4 has low profile tyres and is much heavier.
What id like to know is are there any of you who are experienced in the sand with a D4 and can give some pointers.
Do the tyres bag at all? Im guessing not. And what about the Compomotive rims with 18 in tyres. I imagine they bag a little more but is it enough.
Tim

Hi Tim,

I had 20” on my D4 but didn’t get a chance to run on the soft stuff before replacing them with Compomotive’s and 265/65R18’s.
Here a bagging pic at 15PSI at the rear.
I’m very impressed with the D4’s performance on sand.

Andrew

130268

[l00kin4]

Im also interested in how a D4 is on the sand with standard tyres.
I have a TD5 Defender at the moment with an Auto transmission . It is fantastic in the sand due to the 85 series tyres and light weight. We have never been stuck and often pass heavier cars that are.
We are thinking of Buying a D4.
SO the D4 has low profile tyres and is much heavier.
What id like to know is are there any of you who are experienced in the sand with a D4 and can give some pointers.
Do the tyres bag at all? Im guessing not. And what about the Compomotive rims with 18 in tyres. I imagine they bag a little more but is it enough.
Tim

I've been on plenty of beaches- Stockton, Blacksmiths and Fraser Island (for 2 weeks) on 19's no problem except for pinching one tyre on a tree root because I didn't bump the pressures up before going into the rainforest.

I have since put Compomotive 18s on for the extra sidewall and they probably are better on sand but not really necessary.

Way back I had a Hilux ute with 10R15s (IIRC) which was brilliant on sand and I feel just as comfortable if not better in the D4. It's really good on sand.

David

[Tombie]

The last thing you want is bagging tyres..
You want ELONGATED tyres...

This bagging myth is just that and depends greatly on the Tyre itself (and renders them vulnerable in many cases)...


As for a D110 being lighter than a D4... reality isn’t the case [emoji6] every D110 offroad I’ve come across (or owned) has been heavier than the D4...

[timax]

The last thing you want is bagging tyres..
You want ELONGATED tyres...

This bagging myth is just that and depends greatly on the Tyre itself (and renders them vulnerable in many cases)...


As for a D110 being lighter than a D4... reality isn’t the case [emoji6] every D110 offroad I’ve come across (or owned) has been heavier than the D4...

Bagging may be the wrong term then but im sure knowing i have a defender that you know what im saying. I air down to 16 psi on 235/85/16s.
And my 110 on the W-bridge was just under 2000kg. Isnt the LR4 more like 2600kg or have i missed something?

[Milton477]

Here are some "scientific" observations about the size of the patch of a 19" tyre I measured a while ago: 18" v 19" v 20" tyre sticky patch size difference? (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/238486-18-v-19-v-20-tyre-sticky-patch-size-difference.html)
The measurements demonstrate how the contact patch of a tyre increases in size with the decrease in pressure

[Milton477]

255/55R19" on the left & 265/60R18 on the right.
Both at 15psi, on a D4 & a D3.
130300

Begs the question, are 18's really worth it?

[trout1105]

It's not only sand that you need to drop your tyre pressures in, On rocky tracks/country you also need to drop the tyre pressure and this is where the higher profile tyres come into play.
A fair bit of "Flex" is needed so that the tyre can "Mould" over the rocks so that tyre damage can be averted instead of puncturing/tearing the tyre on sharp rocks, If there is not enough height/profile on the tyre there is a chance of tyre damage on rocks.

[timax]

I imagine on rocks then any increase in sidewall height would be a good thing but for sand im surprised by the measurements in the other thread.
I see the numbers but my mind still says tall and skinny H/T tyres with the smallest wheel that will fit over the brakes.
If i do go for a LR4 ill naturally be trying the standard setup before changing anything. From the feedback above i shouldnt have a problem.

[Tombie]

Best sand tyres I’ve ever run - Claws....
HT or “balloon” tyres is a myth!

[trout1105]

Best sand tyres I’ve ever run - Claws....
HT or “balloon” tyres is a myth!

I agree.
Putting road tyres on a 4WD is about as helpful as putting a bonnet on a duck [bigwhistle]

[timax]

Ha , im not going to bite at that one. You can tell the Middle East that they are wrong about the Sumitomo Shaheen .
Whatever works for you. They do look good though:BigThumb:

[mfpoli]

If i do go for a LR4 ill naturally be trying the standard setup before changing anything. From the feedback above i shouldnt have a problem.

I am still on the standard setup, after almost 3 years. Baal Bone Gap track in the Gardens of Stone NP was the worst I have taken it (up the rock step) and quite frankly, the worst I will ever take it through. 16psi with the 19 inch rims works perfect on sand (combined with basic 4wd savvy). The D4 is immensely capable in stock form off-road, and the beauty about the standard setup is that it drives a treat on the black top where almost all of my driving is done. The only concerning issue are the tyres as is documented numerous times throughout this blog. However, just slow down, pick your line and you will be fine. So yes, start with the standard setup and then upgrade as necessary depending on how hard you are going to take it.

Mario

[Tombie]

Ha , im not going to bite at that one. You can tell the Middle East that they are wrong about the Sumitomo Shaheen .
Whatever works for you. They do look good though:BigThumb:

You’re referring to a high (to very high) speed sand Tyre...
Not a “cruising along the beach or tracks at Fraser” Tyre.

[emoji41]

[ATH]

I haven't done much beach driving with the D4 but the first time I went out a person I thought was knowledgeable in these things told me not to go below 25pis with 19" tyres.
And I got bogged badly. Down to around 18psi and no problem after a bit of back and forth to get out of the holes I'd dug. [bigsmile1]
I've no intention of going to 18" rims for the little work I do on beaches and find with careful line picking and pressure they're good enough for the track stuff I do as well.
AlanH.

[timax]

You’re referring to a high (to very high) speed sand Tyre...
Not a “cruising along the beach or tracks at Fraser” Tyre.

[emoji41]
Really , what makes you think that?

[ozscott]

255/55R19" on the left & 265/60R18 on the right.
Both at 15psi, on a D4 & a D3.
130300

Begs the question, are 18's really worth it?The photo is not showing the relevant footprint for sand driving...front to rear.

Cheers

[Chops]

I've got the 20" rims on mine and did Googs Tk early this year. Rather soft and very rough with Wombat type holes, we really had no problems,,, except for being almost 5T with trailer in tow. [bigwhistle]

[Tombie]

The photo is not showing the relevant footprint for sand driving...front to rear.

Cheers

Not the correct angle to show relevant footprint...

Length of print not width impacts sand driving.

[ozscott]

Yep for sure

[1984V8110]

Thirty years ago I drove across the Sahara in a LWB SIII and had Michelin XS sand tires fitted. These were a remarkable tyre with very high sidewalls which, when deflated, seemed to elongate the footprint to a much greater extent than they bagged out. I suspect tyre technology has moved on since then although I do see that they are still available - at least overseas. Certainly at the time the locals swore by them.

Anyone seen them in Australia?

Cheers


Michael

[Milton477]

The photo is not showing the relevant footprint for sand driving...front to rear.


Cheers

No, it does not. I was trying to show how the 2 sizes available bag out at 15psi. The length of the footprint is the all important bit & shown below but is discussed in another post: 18" v 19" v 20" tyre sticky patch size difference? (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/238486-18-v-19-v-20-tyre-sticky-patch-size-difference.html)

For a 19":
15 psi --> 275mm
18 psi --> 265mm
20 psi --> 255mm
25 psi --> 235mm
30 psi --> 220mm
37 psi --> 190mm

For an 18": (Thanks LandyAndy)
15psi --> 290mm
18psi --> 265mm
20psi --> 255mm
25psi --> 235mm
30psi --> 210mm
37psi --> 185mm

[Tombie]

Good data, only relevant to the Tyre you are running also, as Tyre construction makes a big difference.

[Guss]

No, it does not. I was trying to show how the 2 sizes available bag out at 15psi. The length of the footprint is the all important bit & shown below but is discussed in another post: 18" v 19" v 20" tyre sticky patch size difference? (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/238486-18-v-19-v-20-tyre-sticky-patch-size-difference.html)

For a 19":
15 psi --> 275mm
18 psi --> 265mm
20 psi --> 255mm
25 psi --> 235mm
30 psi --> 220mm
37 psi --> 190mm

For an 18": (Thanks LandyAndy)
15psi --> 290mm
18psi --> 265mm
20psi --> 255mm
25psi --> 235mm
30psi --> 210mm
37psi --> 185mm

Wow, good to know. I would not have thought they were so close.

[Tombie]

The difference that would have been good to measure would be rim to ground at each..

[Celtoid]

Bagging may be the wrong term then but im sure knowing i have a defender that you know what im saying. I air down to 16 psi on 235/85/16s.
And my 110 on the W-bridge was just under 2000kg. Isnt the LR4 more like 2600kg or have i missed something?

Yup, unloaded a D4 is heavier than all of the Defenders standard. I looked into this ages ago so I'm rusty on the numbers ... I think a Deefer can legally carry more load bringing their weights in at pretty close to/or heavier than a D4 depending on the model (110 - 130) when in camping mode :-).

[trout1105]

The difference that would have been good to measure would be rim to ground at each..

I would think that the difference in the amount of "Flex" that the higher profile tyres have would be negligible on sand.
As long as you can lower the pressure enough without popping the tyre off the bead the 20 inch rims should do the job as long as the actual wheel height is the same on both sizes of rims.

[Chops]

I've had a look, but can't find the info I want, however, I'm pretty sure I went down to about 23-ish all round, and that sat the rim a bit over an inch from the ground, (not actually measured). I wasn't game to go any lower for fear of pinching the sidewalls on tree roots or rocks.

If I get some time, I'll let them down and try and measure the various lengths at various pressures over the weekend.

[AnD3rew]

I haven't done much beach driving with the D4 but the first time I went out a person I thought was knowledgeable in these things told me not to go below 25pis with 19" tyres.
And I got bogged badly. Down to around 18psi and no problem after a bit of back and forth to get out of the holes I'd dug. [bigsmile1]
I've no intention of going to 18" rims for the little work I do on beaches and find with careful line picking and pressure they're good enough for the track stuff I do as well.
AlanH.

I always go to 25psi to start on my D3 18s and haven't been bogged yet but I went out with my brother in his new D4 with 19s and he bogged quickly at 25 and after I dug him out we went down to 18 and he was fine.

[Tombie]

I would think that the difference in the amount of "Flex" that the higher profile tyres have would be negligible on sand.
As long as you can lower the pressure enough without popping the tyre off the bead the 20 inch rims should do the job as long as the actual wheel height is the same on both sizes of rims.

Until you hit a rock etc at pace... [emoji6]

Or, you bounce, and pinch rim and Tyre...

[trout1105]

Until you hit a rock etc at pace... [emoji6]

Or, you bounce, and pinch rim and Tyre...

Like I said in Sand the 20 inch rims should be OK, On rocks definitely Not so good.
Regardless of what size/type of tyre you are running, Hitting a rock at speed will test them all.[smilebigeye]

[Tombie]

Yup, unloaded a D4 is heavier than all of the Defenders standard. I looked into this ages ago so I'm rusty on the numbers ... I think a Deefer can legally carry more load bringing their weights in at pretty close to/or heavier than a D4 depending on the model (110 - 130) when in camping mode :-).

Yes a 110 is about 520kg lighter..

However it places significantly more pressure on the ground (in standard trim) than a D4 and is noticeable on sand..

A trimmed Defender, even not packed for a trip will run around 2,500kg+ without even trying...
(Draws, Bar, Towbar, rack, steps etc)

[timax]

Yes a 110 is about 520kg lighter..

However it places significantly more pressure on the ground (in standard trim) than a D4 and is noticeable on sand..

A trimmed Defender, even not packed for a trip will run around 2,500kg+ without even trying...
(Draws, Bar, Towbar, rack, steps etc)

Dont worry Tombie im basically sold on a D4.

I dont understand what your saying above though.

Point 1 above- Your telling me that a half ton lighter car is putting more pressure on the sand?? How.
I measured the contact patch of my 235-85-16 conti's with only 1mm of legal tread.( replacing the set next week) at 16 PSi which is what i run on sand and its just over 295mm with my bedding , tools and empty fridge in the back and 2/3 of a tank.
so a 255-55-19 on a D4 at 15 psi has a patch of 275mm and the tyre height is 43mm less. Its width though gives it a cm more each side so contact patch is basically the same area but 2cm wider not longer and therefore will push more sand. My new tyres will be even longer
Point 2 above- I bought my 110 from interstate and had to take it to a weigh bridge before registering it in NSW. From memory it was 1995 kg. I then put my camping gear in and go away. Actually i remove the back seats making it even lighter! Ill put the same camping gear in a D4 .
If you want to talk "trimmed out" as you say with winches and bars etc which i dont have then surely you would then add that to the D4 also or are you trying to compare a expedition ready 110 loaded to its legal limit to a D4 off the showroom floor?

[Russrobe]

Just got back from a 3 day trip mostly on sand. South Coast of W.A is notoriously soft, the first dune proved that there is no point going any higher than 12PSI as the sands that soft not one car made it up on 18PSI. Went to 12PSI R and 10PSI Front and made it up first time, Calcup Hill was first attempt too (1km high dune going up in 2 long stages).
Was pretty glad I had 18" wheels for this trip though as I wouldn't fancy driving around on 10PSI for 2 days with any less sidewall.

[Tombie]

Timax,

With a D4 a lot of gear also removes weight whilst adding it - so a front bar takes some significant weight off whilst adding a bit more... where as the Defender bar weighs almost nothing compared to what gets added.

The pressure equation is force over area, so assuming contact patch length stays the same and width increases there’s is less pressure per square (insert cm or inch).

Think of it like a a knife - would you want me to apply 20 psi of pressure on you arm with the flat side or the sharp edge ? [emoji6]

[Celtoid]

I've had 2 D4s since Jan 2010. I got GOE 18s (and run Zeon LTZ 285/60/18s) after maybe a year or so of ownership of the first D4. As I go on the beach a lot less often than I'd like, I usually stay on my Road Shoes and do a quick swap out before going on a trip.

I did Fraser, Bribie and Moreton several times with the standard sized 19s (OEM supplied Wranglers and then Pirelli Scorpions ATRs). Both performed pretty well but are much less 'flexible' (figuratively speaking) than the 18s. On Both Fraser and Moreton I've had to go below 18 psi because I was getting close to bogging a couple of times. But then you run the risk of tyre damage when you hit roots (especially Fraser). You just don't have a lot of tyre between the rim and the obstacle.

It can be impractical to keep stopping to change pressures to suit if the terrain varies a bit. I just drop the 18s to 16 psi and never really have to worry. There is enough sidewall to be stress free if you cross rocks or roots at a sensible speed and they will probably fare OK if you hit something by surprise when travelling a bit faster. They also have no issues in most soft sand conditions at that pressure even going uphill and then having to pull up a berm to let the Prado passed that can't climb said berm .... even downhill ... LOL!!! (back of Tangalooma).

I just drive through most things without thinking about it now and obviously have more pressure options if the going gets really tough.

Kev.

[Owen]

I'm just back from a 9500km trip to Cape York with a 2 week stop over on the way home on Fraser Island. Tyres are std 255/55/19 size.
Only time bogged was powder dry sand up the Cape I was not prepared for and did t have DSC off and it went down. That's fully loaded , full pressure and with Camper on the back.
For Fraser we dropped the tyres to 18 on the D4 and 15 on the camper for the run through Inskip Point but it wasn't needed. Once on the island I ran 24 for the rest of the trip with no problems.
Tyres are the Hankook RF 10 and they had 40k on them before the trip. They were fantastic, no punctures and handed all sorts of conditions really well.

[Mungus]

You must have done OK Owen, you didn’t make it on that FB page. [thumbsupbig]

[Russrobe]

You must have done OK Owen, you didn’t make it on that FB page. [thumbsupbig]I'd hate to count the hours I've waste on that page!

[Wazz]

Im also interested in how a D4 is on the sand with standard tyres.
I have a TD5 Defender at the moment with an Auto transmission . It is fantastic in the sand due to the 85 series tyres and light weight. We have never been stuck and often pass heavier cars that are.
We are thinking of Buying a D4.
SO the D4 has low profile tyres and is much heavier.
What id like to know is are there any of you who are experienced in the sand with a D4 and can give some pointers.
Do the tyres bag at all? Im guessing not. And what about the Compomotive rims with 18 in tyres. I imagine they bag a little more but is it enough.
Tim

Ive just put a set of maxxis at 980's(255/55/19) on my D4, and have spent the last week on sand, and am not impressed(disappointed would be more accurate). I had a triton before the D4, with proper/normal sized tyres and it would put a D4 with 19's to shame on sand. I'm really wanting to try 18" tyres on the beach to see how much difference it makes before I make a final decision about the discos sand performance.

[DiscoJeffster]

Wazz, that odd. I’ve not matched that experience. I find the D4 great in sand on the 19” (obviously can always be better). 15psi, Sand mode, DSC off, and I was happily pulling a camper through soft sand.

[Tombie]

Comparing a very light Triton to a rather hefty D4 on sand is not exactly an Apples for Apples comparison.

That would be like comparing my wife’s old Vitara Soft top to the Triton....

Wazz, what pressures were you on? What terrain setting? Was DSC turned off every time? And.... what range were you in?

My D4 doesn’t mind sand at all, once all these factors are in play..

[scomac]

Ive just put a set of maxxis at 980's(255/55/19) on my D4, and have spent the last week on sand, and am not impressed(disappointed would be more accurate). I had a triton before the D4, with proper/normal sized tyres and it would put a D4 with 19's to shame on sand. I'm really wanting to try 18" tyres on the beach to see how much difference it makes before I make a final decision about the discos sand performance.

Funny you should say that as I snatched a Triton out that was bogged to rails only two weeks ago, I'm on the 980 19's as well!
Cheers
Scott.

[Wazz]

that is my (experienced on sand) opinion. it actually dissapointed my brother(a range rover & Defender owner of 10+ years) who was considering a disco, to the point of leaning towards a 200 series instead. But like i said, i will try smaller rims with proper tyres before i make a final decision.

I would love to hear of someones experience who has actually given the 19's a good go before going to compomotive 18's?? and if it actually did make a big difference?

And comparing a disco 4 to any other 4wd is a fair comparison, especially a stock work ute!

[Tombie]

Not quite.. comparing a D4 to anything of similar size and weight is a fair comparison.
Expecting 2.7t to behave like 1.7t on sand is not...

[trout1105]

Maybe a comparison between a D2 with 16 inch rims against a D4 with 19 inch rims would be more appropriate ?
Both trucks are very capable off roaders and are similar weights.
I have noticed though that there are not too many D2's fitted with the 18 inch rim options and most tend to have the 16 inch type.

[ozscott]

Exactly. Compare the D4 to a 200 series for example. Cheers

[ozscott]

Trout the d2 is considerably lighter stock for stock. What I can say is that with 31inch tyres aired down on 16's even towing a heavy trailer in deep powdery sand like Main Beach or Flinders at Stradbroke the D2 is a sand weapon. Cheers

[trout1105]

Trout the d2 is considerably lighter stock for stock. What I can say is that with 31inch tyres aired down on 16's even towing a heavy trailer in deep powdery sand like Main Beach or Flinders at Stradbroke the D2 is a sand weapon. Cheers

HeHe
I live on the West Coast so I have some experience with soft powdery sand [bigwhistle]
I have mates with nissans and cruisers we also own a hilux twin cab that tend to struggle in the sand and my old D2 makes the going look easy and I only have 245/70/16's fitted [biggrin]

[timax]

HeHe
I live on the West Coast so I have some experience with soft powdery sand [bigwhistle]
I have mates with nissans and cruisers we also own a hilux twin cab that tend to struggle in the sand and my old D2 makes the going look easy and I only have 245/70/16's fitted [biggrin]

I dont think we should be comparing a D2 or Defender etc to the D4. I have a Td5 Defender with the same transmission and transfer case as you and never have issues in sand either. The new crop of 4x4s though have lots of electronics and more weight.
Our family are looking at a D4 and alternatives. Alternatives would include similar comfort levels and size etc. 200 series was on the list , RR sport i suppose and think of any other luxury family size 4x4.

[Redback]

I'm no expert and don't do any beach work, but what I found with our D4 recently was no matter what mode I used or what range I was in low or high, the most important thing was tyre pressures, by the time we left the CSR I was using normal mode high range with 15psi front and back, this was the only way to have a consistant outcome over all the dunes.

What I found with sand mode was higher fuel economy over just using normal and the DSC OFF, sand mode wasn't an advantage.

Towing a camper in sand is terrible, the combined weight was 4.6T, that was heavier than the 6x6 Perentie with a camper body on it that was doing the CSR.

[TuffRR]

by the time we left the CSR I was using normal mode high range with 15psi front and back, this was the only way to have a consistant outcome over all the dunes.



Interesting. My one gripe so far with the D4 climbing dunes was the DSC still kicking in and killing momentum when in high range (and with it switched 'off'). The advice was that low range would of been better with DSC even less likely to kick in, but i haven't had a chance to test that yet.

[Tombie]

Interesting. My one gripe so far with the D4 climbing dunes was the DSC still kicking in and killing momentum when in high range (and with it switched 'off'). The advice was that low range would of been better with DSC even less likely to kick in, but i haven't had a chance to test that yet.

The advice is correct... low range keeps the DSC in check [emoji6]

[Redback]

The advice is correct... low range keeps the DSC in check [emoji6]

Not towing a trailer, can't get enough speed/momentum on the bigger dunes with a trailer on and in low range.

[cjc_td5]

that is my (experienced on sand) opinion. it actually dissapointed my brother(a range rover & Defender owner of 10+ years) who was considering a disco, to the point of leaning towards a 200 series instead. But like i said, i will try smaller rims with proper tyres before i make a final decision.

I would love to hear of someones experience who has actually given the 19's a good go before going to compomotive 18's?? and if it actually did make a big difference?

And comparing a disco 4 to any other 4wd is a fair comparison, especially a stock work ute!

I have 19" Hankooks on my MY14 D4 and have done beach work with no issues, including Callcup Hill and a very soft beach run at Esperence. The Esperence experience included slow manoeuvring in very soft rutted sand and towing out a beached Forrester. Air down, DSC off, don't be heavy with your right foot and the use of rods to get the bottom of the vehicle up off the sand have all worked well for me.

Chris

[scarry]

I'm no expert and don't do any beach work, but what I found with our D4 recently was no matter what mode I used or what range I was in low or high, the most important thing was tyre pressures, by the time we left the CSR I was using normal mode high range with 15psi front and back, this was the only way to have a consistant outcome over all the dunes.

What I found with sand mode was higher fuel economy over just using normal and the DSC OFF, sand mode wasn't an advantage.

Towing a camper in sand is terrible, the combined weight was 4.6T, that was heavier than the 6x6 Perentie with a camper body on it that was doing the CSR.

Does the camper track the vehicle perfectly?

If not that adds to the issue.

I have seen clowns trying to pull camper trailers over dunes in the Simpson desert,just a nightmare.[bigsad]

FWIW,i get into enough trouble in the soft sand towing, umm, nothing[bigwhistle]

[Russrobe]

I have 19" Hankooks on my MY14 D4 and have done beach work with no issues, including Callcup Hill and a very soft beach run at Esperence. The Esperence experience included slow manoeuvring in very soft rutted sand and towing out a beached Forrester. Air down, DSC off, don't be heavy with your right foot and the use of rods to get the bottom of the vehicle up off the sand have all worked well for me.

ChrisA lot of people say that's amongst the softest sand in Aus Cj, so good example.

Last weekend we had a great mix of 4x4s in the same area. 1 Triton, 1 brand new Hilux, 2 x 2017 4.5l tdv8 LC 70series one dual cab one single on 15inch wheels 100series, and our D4.
Only the 100series and D4 made it up Calcup first time "as seen in later part of my youtube vid posted.

Big mud hole we had to go through had the dual cab 70series stuck, got pulled out, D4 got out after it grabbed traction after about 5sec wheel spin and then straight up.

Dual Cab 70 series weighs 3.6t as is, ours weighed 3.56t when loaded for gib, most likely 3.4t for this trip...

Has to be like for like comparison weight wise. Wouldn't expect to keep up with a stock standard 200 series when I've got an extra 300kg in accessories.

Might surprise some people that a kitted out D4 weighs as much as a dual cab 70series...

Russhttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/444.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/445.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/446.jpg

[Redback]

Does the camper track the vehicle perfectly?

If not that adds to the issue.

I have seen clowns trying to pull camper trailers over dunes in the Simpson desert,just a nightmare.[bigsad]

FWIW,i get into enough trouble in the soft sand towing, umm, nothing[bigwhistle]

Yes same wheel track as the car, I even had the camper down to 12psi.

[timax]

A lot of people say that's amongst the softest sand in Aus Cj, so good example.

Last weekend we had a great mix of 4x4s in the same area. 1 Triton, 1 brand new Hilux, 2 x 2017 4.5l tdv8 LC 70series one dual cab one single on 15inch wheels 100series, and our D4.
Only the 100series and D4 made it up Calcup first time "as seen in later part of my youtube vid posted.

Big mud hole we had to go through had the dual cab 70series stuck, got pulled out, D4 got out after it grabbed traction after about 5sec wheel spin and then straight up.

Dual Cab 70 series weighs 3.6t as is, ours weighed 3.56t when loaded for gib, most likely 3.4t for this trip...

Has to be like for like comparison weight wise. Wouldn't expect to keep up with a stock standard 200 series when I've got an extra 300kg in accessories.

Might surprise some people that a kitted out D4 weighs as much as a dual cab 70series...

Russhttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/444.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/445.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/446.jpg
What tyres and size? Also do you have a link to the vid?
Cheers Tim

[Wazz]

A lot of people say that's amongst the softest sand in Aus Cj, so good example.

Last weekend we had a great mix of 4x4s in the same area. 1 Triton, 1 brand new Hilux, 2 x 2017 4.5l tdv8 LC 70series one dual cab one single on 15inch wheels 100series, and our D4.
Only the 100series and D4 made it up Calcup first time "as seen in later part of my youtube vid posted.


Looks like you're running with some 18" tread hey? Have you got the 2.7l D4? 3.56T loaded up!! wow.

[Russrobe]

Looks like you're running with some 18" tread hey? Have you got the 2.7l D4? 3.56T loaded up!! wow.

Yes, lucky there, standard 18's. 285 60 18, so much for wide tyres being bad for sand use... 2.7's are the only D4's that came with 18" wheels...km

I think some people just don't know how to drive a 4x4 over 3t on sand. You're not going to get up a big dune at 20km'h, i aim for 40km/h every time for a large steep dune, 30km/h for a not so steep. Feathering the throttle is also important, especially if there is a turn in the track whilst ascending, Gordons GOE training days are invaluable for his knowledge. If you're in Perth as he runs them every couple of months!