Vic Hume HWY,, a dangerous road

[Chops]

I've been travelling this section of the hwy for many years now, since before it was even a freeway,, between Melbourne and Albury.
Recently, someone in their wisdom has decided it needs to have a wife safety fence along its entire length. In some places, I can see this may have merit, but for its entire length??

Coming back this last weekend from Alb, I've decided it's a death trap,,, full stop ✋
if one should happen to get a flat on the drivers side, it'll mean they'll basically be working on the road to change said flat. In quite a few places, (read "lots") it is rather narrow between the fence and the roadway, which I think, even a truck would be hard pressed to actually be "off the road" in a emergency,, let alone change a wheel.
They woffle on about driver fatigue etc,, well now, you can only pull up in a wayside stop,, all good if your alert enough to get to the next one. Whoever thinks this **** up should be shot on site. Mind you, whoever has the contract and supplies the wire rope etc, must be laughing all the way to the bank.

The only good thing about this fence,,, means the police have nowhere really to park and hide 😏 . But no doubt they'll fix that with cameras 🎥 😒

[stealth]

Couldn't agree more Chops.

Melbourne to Geelong is getting the same treatment. But I would rather see money spent on road improvement rather than preventing you from running off it. And if trees are a problem, cut the bloody things down rather than spend thousands of dollars to stop cars hitting them.

[grey_ghost]

Wife safety fence? [emoji15]

[Homestar]

Wife safety fence? [emoji15]

Now there's an idea that could take off with the right marketing...

[pop058]

I've been travelling this section of the hwy for many years now, since before it was even a freeway,, between Melbourne and Albury.
Recently, someone in their wisdom has decided it needs to have a wife safety fence along its entire length. In some places, I can see this may have merit, but for its entire length??

Coming back this last weekend from Alb, I've decided it's a death trap,,, full stop ✋
if one should happen to get a flat on the drivers side, it'll mean they'll basically be working on the road to change said flat. In quite a few places, (read "lots") it is rather narrow between the fence and the roadway, which I think, even a truck would be hard pressed to actually be "off the road" in a emergency,, let alone change a wheel.
They woffle on about driver fatigue etc,, well now, you can only pull up in a wayside stop,, all good if your alert enough to get to the next one. Whoever thinks this **** up should be shot on site. Mind you, whoever has the contract and supplies the wire rope etc, must be laughing all the way to the bank.

The only good thing about this fence,,, means the police have nowhere really to park and hide 😏 . But no doubt they'll fix that with cameras 🎥 😒


Wife safety fence? [emoji15]

:Rolling::Rolling:

[grey_ghost]

Auto correct may have been making a point! [emoji12]

[rangieman]

Wife safety fence? [emoji15]
Not a problem for young Chops he has made that mistake in the past [bigwhistle]
Doubt he will revisit that any time too soon[wink11]

[Chops]

Not a problem for young Chops he has made that mistake in the past [bigwhistle]
Doubt he will revisit that any time too soon[wink11]


Twice even [bigwhistle]

[Chops]

Couldn't agree more Chops.

Melbourne to Geelong is getting the same treatment. But I would rather see money spent on road improvement rather than preventing you from running off it. And if trees are a problem, cut the bloody things down rather than spend thousands of dollars to stop cars hitting them.


Yeah, I just don't get it Jack,,
On the up side,,, the fence looks like it works ok though ,, none of the trees behind where the fence has been mown down look damaged at all,,, my my, the greens will be happy 😊
Id hate be on a motor bike and collect it,,

[p38arover]

Wire fencing like as seen in this video on FacePalm: https://www.facebook.com/DashCamOwnersAustralia/videos/1561593453900289 (https://www.facebook.com/pg/DashCamOwnersAustralia/videos/) look for "M7 north bound cow pasture 25/9/17" (https://www.facebook.com/pg/DashCamOwnersAustralia/videos/#)

[mick88]

They are changing it from a Freeway to Sheeprace! ;)

Cheers, Mick.

[Rextheute]

I've noticed that once the fence goes up , the number of wildlife skittles increases , a lot .

The poor buggers get trapped by the fence and jump , waddle , bolt back into the traffic.

Whether or not they are just " animals " is immaterial, hit one and the vehicle is done - unless it's a full size truck .
recentley they've done the section of Hume , Wallan into Ringroad , the number of cars and 4wd with stoves in fronts and sides near a struck animal is incredible .

Im on Sydney road and we have dead Roos out the front of work , I'm near Kmart !
That's suburbia !

And wait till till a motorcyclist is caught up in a fence , there will be an uproar .

[Chops]

I've noticed that once the fence goes up , the number of wildlife skittles increases , a lot .

The poor buggers get trapped by the fence and jump , waddle , bolt back into the traffic.

Whether or not they are just " animals " is immaterial, hit one and the vehicle is done - unless it's a full size truck .
recentley they've done the section of Hume , Wallan into Ringroad , the number of cars and 4wd with stoves in fronts and sides near a struck animal is incredible .

Im on Sydney road and we have dead Roos out the front of work , I'm near Kmart !
That's suburbia !

And wait till till a motorcyclist is caught up in a fence , there will be an uproar .

Funny you should bring up the wildlife situation,,, I commented to Leeanne on the drive, I don't think I've ever seen so many carcasses,, I didn't even think of the fence being an issue,, but your right, it is.

[POD]

They have put these wire ropes all the way from Pakenham to Warragul and are in the process of doing them all the way to Traralgon and beyond. Whoever has come up with this scam is setting themselves up for generations. I'm of the opinion that the tea-tree shrubbery that used to be in the median strip all the way along the Princes Highway served as a pretty effective safety barrier, as well as a good screen against oncoming headlights. They have mulched dozens of kilometers of scrub along the Princes Highway and replaced it with the ugly wires, I get to spend my trip to work looking into oncoming high beams.

[gusthedog]

It's interesting. I've watched them put in the wire barrier from Molesworth to Yea and originally thought like you guys. Since they finished the wire though, it has stopped at least 7 head on accidents. That's stopped 7 cars going across the road potentially into other cars or trees in 6 months.

They had to put back the finish date because it kept getting damaged.

I had a mate die in a head on crash on that section of road 30 years ago. Now I think if they had the wire rope barrier back then he'd still be alive today.

Not saying it's the only answer and it's no silver bullet. Just a different perspective.

[Chops]

Sorry to hear of your mate,, and yes, maybe they could have saved him, along with others I'm sure.
We traveled up via Yea/Molesworth, and interestingly enough, I found it quite a pleasant drive, mind you, at 80kph in the D4, it was always going to be pleasant.

On the particular road we are talking about, I dont really have a problem,, but I do on a freeway.

[p38arover]

Id hate be on a motor bike and collect it,,

I noticed on the Putty Road (a favourite for we bike riders) between Wilberforce and Singleton, a lot of the corners now have Armco to road level so bikes and riders can't go under the barrier and hit the support uprights.

[vnx205]

I have heard motorcyclists refer to those wire barriers as "cheese cutters".

Back in about the 1960s I read a report in an American publication that researchers had found that the most effective and most cost effective median strip barrier was rose bushes.

[V8Ian]

Back in about the 1960s I read a report in an American publication that researchers had found that the most effective and most cost effective median strip barrier was rose bushes.
Only because they couldn't spell bougainvillea. [biggrin]

[3toes]

Wire barriers were used here from the fifties until about 10 years ago. Concrete barriers are now in use as modern cars and trucks are too heavy to be contained by the wire barriers. Rather than being held and pushed back in the direction of travel as was intended trucks are passing over the barriers and colliding with on coming traffic. In some cases the barriers caused vehicles with higher centre of gravity and light trucks to rise up and roll over into on coming traffic. When the UK was making this decision most of Europe had already moved away from wire to concrete barriers for these reasons. Wire barriers are though much cheaper than concrete


Motorway crash barriers

Barrier selection

The choice of barrier is a very important one; the wrong type of barrier could increase risk for road users. [15] The volume, speed and mix of traffic is used to determine which type of barrier will be used on a particular stretch of road, and decisions are made on a case-by-case basis. [16] At present, the majority of central reservations on major roads in England are installed with flexible steel safety barriers. This type of barrier was chosen for its containment of vehicles and minimum effect on vehicle occupants. [17] However, the Highways Agency has since changed its policy and now recommends the use of concrete barriers on motorway central reserves.

In the UK, crossover incidents account for over 200 motorway crashes and 40 deaths a year. [19]

In January 2005, the Highways Agency issued its new policy (Interim Advice Note 60/05), recommending the use of higher concrete barriers to reduce the risk of crossover incidents on central reservations of motorways with high traffic levels. The policy stated that in most cases, when concrete barriers are struck, they do not need to be repaired and also do not need as much regular maintenance as steel barriers, therefore minimising the exposure and risk to road workers. [20]
The concrete barriers will be introduced gradually and only in new schemes, or motorway-widening schemes. Existing steel barriers will only be changed when they need replacing.
Professor Knapton believes there are many benefits to using concrete barriers instead of steel ones, including:


They don’t damage the vehicle as much.
They (usually) don’t need any repair after a crash. Currently, repairing barriers will involve closing a road/ lane for repairs to be carried out, with workers being put at risk on the road.
They work equally well with heavier vehicles.
Only one concrete barrier is needed in the central reservation to serve both sides of the road.
There is no headlight dazzle through the barrier.
They need less space as they don’t ‘deform’ like steel barriers.

“Another problem with steel barriers is they are very dangerous for motorcyclists,” Professor Knapton added. “They often decapitate and cut limbs off motorcyclists. I think if steel barriers were to be replaced with concrete ones it would be much, much safer for motorcyclists as, providing they are wearing the right safety equipment, they are going to bounce off the barrier and slide down it.”
Alternatives to crash barriers

Considering the way that roads are built in the UK, there doesn’t seem to be any practical alternative to crash barriers. Motorways and carriageways are usually placed alongside each other, meaning there is no space in between for anything other than a crash barrier. Professor Knapton concludes: “There is simply no room for any alternatives. We put our carriageways very close together. In the USA they keep carriageways about 40ft apart and have a gentle ditch between them. This is a very good idea but we don’t have the space to do it in Britain. I can’t think of anything for British roads that could replace barriers, especially as a lot of our motorways are urban motorways. Bearing the space issue in mind, it does seem to me that using concrete barriers is a much better alternative to steel barriers.”

[POD]

I didn't mention it before but I have attended several serious collisions where vehicles (cars and trucks) have crossed over the wire barriers into oncoming traffic. Not a conclusive sample size but my preliminary finding is that they do not work. also having once been hit, they remain an unsightly sagging (and useless) mess until repaired, sometimes months later.

[austastar]

Hi,
Long gone are the days when it was a country road, though there are parts that still can be seen from the highway.
Long gone are the days of slow lumbering lorries that even a Morrie could zip past.

Now where did I put my Zimmer frame?

Cheers

[V8Ian]

Hi,
Long gone are the days when it was a country road, though there are parts that still can be seen from the highway.
Long gone are the days of slow lumbering lorries that even a Morrie could zip past.

Now where did I put my Zimmer frame?

Cheers
And the congregation of trucks waiting for mid-night, at the border, every Sunday. [biggrin]

[Homestar]

While I not condoning how close those barriers are to the side of the road - that's just silly and bloody dangerous, as a bit on insight the company I work for does amongst a lot of other things - roadside crash barriers. I've done some training on all types and although the wire rope barriers aren't a product we do, I have seen the data on them and quite a few crash tests as well as real life video of then 'in action'

The wire barriers are designed to do 2 things, not just stop a vehicle crossing into another lane or hitting a tree, but also stop the vehicle from rebounding back onto the road they have just left and be collected by another vehicle.

These barriers do this very well compared to pretty much anything else on the market, and although there are certainly instances of them being compromised that happens with all barrier systems - they are generally only tested to 110KPH with impact angles of up to 30 degrees - this caters for over 99% of all impacts to any barrier, but there will always be a situation where something untoward happens - like an over corrected swerve that then hits them head on, a multi vehicle collision that launches a vehicle higher than the barriers designed impact levels, etc. I have seen footage of a loaded B double running into one at 100KPH when the driver nodded off - the barrier kept the truck on the right side of it - and off the road for several hundred metres while the truck stopped.

They do work and are proven in reducing fatal accidents on freeways both here and overseas.

Are they perfect? - No. Are they placed in the correct location to allow a broken down vehicle to safely pull over? - No, but that's not the barriers fault, that's just the dip**** Engineers unfortunately. Putting them back another meter wouldn't compromise their ability to perform their job.

As a motorcyclist I wouldn't want to crash into one no, but the instances of this happening particularly on dual carriageways would be quite small I would imagine.

[Eevo]

The wire barriers are designed to do 2 things, not just stop a vehicle crossing into another lane or hitting a tree, but also stop the vehicle from rebounding back onto the road they have just left and be collected by another vehicle.

ding ding ding

i saw a great vod last week of the barrier in action. sets see if i can find it again

[Eevo]

was easy to find


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovJMPUpPJnw

[Homestar]

Ha ha - there you go - exhibit 'A'. Thanks. Had that been a steel or concrete barrier, what was left of the van would have ended up in front of the truck filming it which would have been far worse for all concerned.

Was he asleep at the wheel or texting I wonder...

EDIT - you can also see how close the wire barrier is there on the left too - **** all room for a broken down car to safely stay out of the firing line. Another meter or so further back would be much more sensible which I guess is the whole point of this thread...