Towing and stuff (yes again....).

[Auspest]

Hello all.
Whilst I know there is a lot on this great site about towing trailers etc, I couldn't find one that I could just add my comment to - hence this new one (be kind i'm old).

A friend runs an automotive business in Ipswich, Qld and is also a member of a few car clubs he races with. A conversation on the weekend highlighted that a blitz of sorts was underway in the area targeting vehicles towing loaded trailers (car trailers seems to be the go). Overall weights and ball weights are being measured resulting in numerous cars being 'parked' on the side of the road due to being overloaded. Also appears fines are issued not warnings.

Might be a timely reminder to check what you are doing?

Feel free to move this post to anywhere it should be.

Shaun.

[Tombie]

All I can say is “about bloody time” [emoji106][emoji6]

Most car trailers once loaded exceed 2t, need breakaway braking systems (not override brakes like many still have) and its scary to watch many being towed by lighter vehicles!

[V8Ian]

What you talkin' 'bout, Willis? [biggrin]

Spotted: Land Rover tows 110 Tonne Road Train | Big Rigs (https://www.bigrigs.com.au/news/spotted-a-land-rover-with-grunt/3230380/)

[DiscoMick]

I heard they're also checking cargo nets. If the cop can put a fist through the hole it fails. They want the new fine mesh nets.

[DoubleChevron]

It's a hard one in Victoria.

every rental trailer is rated at 2tons ... Now they are big heavy bastards with full chequerplate floor and guards and big heavy ramps. They are about 1.2tons emtpy. This gives you 800kg load capacity. Good for maybe an empty Morris Mini ... or Citroen 2cv ... maybe even a fiat 500.

A lot of rental places have got aroudn this by no longer renting out car trailers.

I don't mind so much about lighter cars towing car trailers... it's the clowns with cars backwards on car trailers that terrify the hell out of me!

seeya,
Shane L.

[101RRS]

it's the clowns with cars backwards on car trailers that terrify the hell out of me!

I tow mine backwards. [smilebigeye]

[cripesamighty]

That D5 towing the road train is ok Ian as the load is covered..... [biggrin] :wasntme:

[350RRC]

Horse floats worry me more.

DL

[nismine01]

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https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by DoubleChevron https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/254242-towing-stuff-yes-again-post2725725.html#post2725725)
it's the clowns with cars backwards on car trailers that terrify the hell out of me!



I tow mine backwards. [smilebigeye]


That's alright if it's an old VW!

Cheers for now

Mike

[trout1105]

Horse floats worry me more.

DL

Why?
Most people that tow a horse float have much more experience towing a trailer that your average grey nomad towing a caravan or the punters that take the trailer to the tip a couple of times a year and they also actually Care about the load they are towing as well.

[DoubleChevron]

I tow mine backwards. [smilebigeye]


Let me guess ... kombis, beetles, Tatras, Renault Alpines and porsche 911s ?

[Slunnie]

5th wheeler?

Idiot Pulls 5th Wheel Camper Backwards with a Bumper Hitch FAIL! - YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1W5r7rrR_Mg)

[Homestar]

Is this another 'a friend of a friend got booked for having an overweight trailer' type of deal? Seems to happen all the time with no one themselves actually getting booked, although I would be glad to see this start - it's a huge problem Australia wide.

As Shane said - the Hire company I work for got rid of all its car trailers as the liabilities were too high. With new tougher COC laws being introduced early next year I'd say we'll see a lot more do this too.

[incisor]

Why?
Most people that tow a horse float have much more experience towing a trailer that your average grey nomad towing a caravan or the punters that take the trailer to the tip a couple of times a year and they also actually Care about the load they are towing as well.

Pity the vast majority haven’t got an ounce of consideration for other road users [emoji15]

[trout1105]

Pity the vast majority haven’t got an ounce of consideration for other road users [emoji15]

Agreed, The Horsey Mob are a bit "Different" and quite a few of them are Landrover owners as well which is a bit of a worry [bigwhistle]

[ATH]

Oh dear. That remark reminds me of us being chased by a horse person towing a horse box (loaded or not I don't know) along a road through the Perth hills in HER Rangie.....
If it was loaded that poor horse got flung around everywhere. Bloody maniac.
AlanH.

[Mick_Marsh]

it's the clowns with cars backwards on car trailers that terrify the hell out of me!
Send in the clowns.
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[Tombie]

And of course that trailer has breakaway and electric brakes hey Mick [emoji41]

[350RRC]

And of course that trailer has breakaway and electric brakes hey Mick [emoji41]

Mick is a breakaway.

DL

[Mick_Marsh]

And of course that trailer has breakaway and electric brakes hey Mick [emoji41]
Oh, yes. Of course.
It is also very light. Deceptively so. That is just thin flat sheet on the side. A light frame underneath and chequer plate for where the wheels go.

[350RRC]

If anyone has half a day at a loose end and wants some reeeeaaaally good trailer stories from the US 4wd fraternity, have a look here:

Share your trailer towing horror stories... - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/46436-share-your-trailer-towing-horror-stories.html)

cheers, DL

[crash]

Once in Canada I had to hire a car trailer. It was 101 questions regarding the make, brand, year and weight of the vehicle going onto the trailer, plus they also wanted all the same info for the tow vehicle aswell as the engine size, and if it had any "towing" packs on the vehicle. They also explained to you how to load and secure the vehicle to the trailer. Two day oneway rental was cheaper than a 1 day rental in Victoria. Additionally if you were involved in an accident the trailered vehicle was covered for $2000 or $3000 worth of damages.
My experiences in Victoria is they are more concerned about getting paid, and really do not care what you do or how you go about it.
My favorite is seeing people use just the hand winch cable to "secure" their vehicle to the trailer.

[carjunkieanon]

Send in the clowns.
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So...what is the correct way to load a vehicle onto a trailer and secure it?

[Homestar]

So...what is the correct way to load a vehicle onto a trailer and secure it?

Depends on the trailer and the vehicle. The trailer in the pics has its axles further back than the servo specials and loading vehicles backwards on this trailer provides the perfect balance and it's a dream to tow like this. I wouldn't recommend loading a vehicle like this on one of the servo specials - they would be too heavy to start with as well as probably making it sway like a bitch and be all around unsafe to tow like that.

[donh54]

So...what is the correct way to load a vehicle onto a trailer and secure it?

Place the vehicle (forwards or backwards) so you have sufficient weight over the drawbar, the rest should be evenly spread over the trailer axles. Tie the vehicle down (at least two diagonally opposite wheels) and a safety strap/chain/rope to arrest any movement under braking, and drive away. If anything feels a bit iffy, stop and re-position the vehicle. Stop and check things on a regular basis (whilst you are pulled over to let me and other truck drivers safely past is a good time)
Assumptions made:
1. You have a reasonable level of competence as far as working out the balance point goes
2. Your tie downs are strong enough to hold the weight and inertia of the vehicle
3. You're not going to drive like a nong!
4. The trailer can legally carry the weight, and you won't exceed the GCM of the tow vehicle.

[Homestar]

Place the vehicle (forwards or backwards) so you have sufficient weight over the drawbar, the rest should be evenly spread over the trailer axles. Tie the vehicle down (at least two diagonally opposite wheels) and a safety strap/chain/rope to arrest any movement under braking, and drive away. If anything feels a bit iffy, stop and re-position the vehicle. Stop and check things on a regular basis (whilst you are pulled over to let me and other truck drivers safely past is a good time)
Assumptions made:
1. You have a reasonable level of competence as far as working out the balance point goes
2. Your tie downs are strong enough to hold the weight and inertia of the vehicle
3. You're not going to drive like a nong!
4. The trailer can legally carry the weight, and you won't exceed the GCM of the tow vehicle.

As the saying goes - assumption is the mother of all **** ups. I've seen a lot of people who've missed all of those 4 you've listed!!! [biggrin]

[DoubleChevron]

I've seen in the past rental trailers with big signs on the front of the trailer saying "MOTOR THIS END"...... Makes way more sense than saying "drive cars on only forward". No doubt they'd lost to many trailers due to people loading stuff like Kombis and old VW's and Rear engine Renaults on forward.

I've never found tying on cars easy. I need to modify my trailer to allow me to use ratchet straps around the wheels. no matter how tightly it's tied down, regardless of a perfect working handbrake in the car ... and the car being in gear as well..... I can feel the damn car move back/forward 1/2" when driving in traffic as you stop/start (ok, ok, it's probably only 2mm it moves .. but I can feel it move damn it!). Drives me bloody insane. It's the stretch in the ropes. I think I'll need to upgrade to ratchet tiedowns.

I've only once had "lost" trailer .... 'cos I'm so bloody careful of the damn things. That was when I picked up a load of masonite sheeting on my car trailer down at Elaine (between geelong and ballarat). As I accelerated to 80km/h I didn't get swaying or anything like that ..... I was just suddenly instantly backwards ... It's weird how everything is in slow motion thought wise. I clearly remember thinking "**** ... I'm backwards.... at the same time my brain said .... FFS STAND ON THE BRAKES WITH EVERYTHING YOU HAVE ..... the car is now the anchor behind the trailer .... don't let it keep spinning. So here some crazy bastard in a Citroen hurtling backwards down the main ballarat->geelong highway at 80km/h with 4wheels of the towcar locked... I slid for a long way ... off the road ... and came to a very gentle stop in a spoon drain on the side of the road..... I got out ... walked around the whole rig .... a couple of times thinking "**** me I'm still alive" ... there is a scratch in the bonnet of the car from somethiing (dunno what), all 8 tires are billowing smoke .... the trailer is going to be a bastard to recover out of the drain ... But I'm 100% ok and undamaged.

Some women pulled over and said "you nearly took me out .... I was going the other direction and had to swerve off the road (she saved my life ... and hers no doubt by getting off the road ... It happened so fast my eyes didn't have a chance to even focus in the spin ... I was just instantly backwards).

I looked at the trailer. EVERY SINGLE sheet of masonite had walked to the back edge of the car trailer .... the back wheels of the car must have been dangling in mid air. I had four very tight ropes pulled down holding it in place. two across it, and two down the length of it.

So I went home a got a 4wd ... this with the help of 4wd passing with recovery gear... we got the trailer out. Every 5 minutes I pulled over and checked the damn load. This time I'd pulled all the sheets off... layed ropes and straps down the length of the trailer ... sat the sheets on top and "wrapped' the masonite sheets so they definitely couldn't move this time. You know, the bloody ropes had cut a path a good 20cms into all the sheets trying to get free and move backwards in the 15minute trip home.

I am NEVER putting that deadly evil **** on a trailer again... it "walks" on a frictionless coating of wood dust as soon as there is some vibration and air movement.

I told my father what happened thinking he'd tell me I'm a moron that can't tie a load on..... Instead head said "I picked up a couple of masonite sheets from bunnings last year... tied them to the roof rack. At the first stop sign I gently braked and they slid straight out from under the tiedowns and onto the road infront of me".

Masonite is evil.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Mick_Marsh]

I've never found tying on cars easy. I need to modify my trailer to allow me to use ratchet straps around the wheels. no matter how tightly it's tied down, regardless of a perfect working handbrake in the car ... and the car being in gear as well..... I can feel the damn car move back/forward 1/2" when driving in traffic as you stop/start (ok, ok, it's probably only 2mm it moves .. but I can feel it move damn it!). Drives me bloody insane. It's the stretch in the ropes. I think I'll need to upgrade to ratchet tiedowns.
The back and forward movement is probably the coupling engaging the override brakes.
I've got tying down to a fine art using four ratchet straps. One on each wheel.

[DoubleChevron]

The back and forward movement is probably the coupling engaging the override brakes.
I've got tying down to a fine art using four ratchet straps. One on each wheel.

Yes ... I need to check how some of the guys that tow cars all the time ( eg: dirt track cars) tie them down. It's not as easy with the old hydraulic cars. You can't access the rear wheels (unless it's a model you can unbolt the guards on). There is only 1/2" of ground clearance to reach under and secure. You can't tie down tightly by the body, as the tiedowns will tear off ( with normal cars you can pull the tiedown nice and snug and watch the suspension slightly compress... there is no suspension with a dead hydraulic car ... so there is no movement until you pull the tie-down points out of the body).

It's all fun though .... life wasn't supposed to be easy :)

seeya
Shane L.

[donh54]

......and the car being in gear as well.....

Remind me never to buy a used car or gearbox off you! LOL

[donh54]

Yes ... I need to check how some of the guys that tow cars all the time ( eg: dirt track cars) tie them down. It's not as easy with the old hydraulic cars. You can't access the rear wheels (unless it's a model you can unbolt the guards on). There is only 1/2" of ground clearance to reach under and secure. You can't tie down tightly by the body, as the tiedowns will tear off ( with normal cars you can pull the tiedown nice and snug and watch the suspension slightly compress... there is no suspension with a dead hydraulic car ... so there is no movement until you pull the tie-down points out of the body).

It's all fun though .... life wasn't supposed to be easy :)

seeya
Shane L.

Rear axle tiedown stops it going forward, somewhere on the front axle stops it going backwards.
Tying the wheels down is ideal, but you never, ever, if at all possible, tie down anything above the suspension.

[PhilipA]

I once austioned off a Falcon for Ford when I was at Brisbane plant.
it was tied down onto a rail wagon with chains and turnbuckles a bit too tight .
So it bent at the firewall so that the front doors were proud of the roof about 5 cms.
regards Philip A

[DoubleChevron]

Remind me never to buy a used car or gearbox off you! LOL

That's never going to hurt a gearbox ... Not in the cars I own either way.

[donh54]

....no matter how tightly it's tied down, regardless of a perfect working handbrake in the car ... and the car being in gear as well..... I can feel the damn car move back/forward 1/2" when driving in traffic as you stop/start (ok, ok, it's probably only 2mm it moves .. but I can feel it move damn it!). Drives me bloody insane. It's the stretch in the ropes. I think I'll need to upgrade to ratchet tiedowns.....


That's never going to hurt a gearbox ... Not in the cars I own either way.

So the car rocking back and forward on the gears (only one or two teeth taking the hammering) or even worse, an auto taking all that on the locking pawl, won't result in any potential problem?
Stretch in the ropes? Yes, I think you need to upgrade your tiedowns! [bigwhistle]

[DoubleChevron]

So the car rocking back and forward on the gears (only one or two teeth taking the hammering) or even worse, an auto taking all that on the locking pawl, won't result in any potential problem?
Stretch in the ropes? Yes, I think you need to upgrade your tiedowns! [bigwhistle]

Never in a million years hurt the gearboxes in my cars. they can handle the shock loading of 200hp being thrown through them by side stepping a clutch. There is no way a car rocking on the high tensile steel gears is going to hurt them.... Well the old Traction Avant ... they have been known to break gearbox casings if you try to roll start them... But that's not a car resting on the gears. That's a shock loading in the opposite direction to normal gearbox rotation.

I don't own any slugomatics... And the only car I own with a "rear axle" as such are the Range Rovers. All others have either trailing arm torsion bar suspension, or trailing arm fully hydraulic suspension. There is no "axle" to tie down. Same deal at the front,.. wishbone independent suspension with either torsion bars or full hydraulics.

I've never heard of any car .. well ever ... get hurt by leaving it in gear :)

seeya,
Shane L.

[Tombie]

Perhaps you should talk to gearbox specialists then... they can recount numerous cases of bearing damage from such behaviour...

Same as using “Angel gear” and coasting down hills... shakes the crap out of gearboxes by leaving shafts slapping around unloaded.

[DoubleChevron]

Perhaps you should talk to gearbox specialists then... they can recount numerous cases of bearing damage from such behaviour...

Same as using “Angel gear” and coasting down hills... shakes the crap out of gearboxes by leaving shafts slapping around unloaded.

There a splash box in most of the old cars... How many years/hundreds of thousands of kms would you have to let them "rattle" for any damage to be done. It would never happen with negligible movement on a softly sprung car trailer. Maybe if you had it rattling itself to death across from perth on a freight train.

I'm talking a tied down car on a car trailer that also has the handbrake on [bighmmm]

seeya,
Shane L.