WIPAC LED flasher problem - any suggestions?

[zzorbaa]

Hi all,

I've recently replaced the stock lights on my '94 300tdi with the WIPAC LED kit (https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/series/series-3/parts/electrical/da1192-wipac-led-light-kit-for-defender-90110-and-series-3.html) and the installation was easy enough. I've got some odd behaviour from the WIPAC flasher unit though, and I'm wondering if anyone has any advice.

When I start the car, the indicators won't work. I can't hear the relay clicking at all with the indicator stalk flicked left or right. Then, I switch my hazard lights on and there's a 50:50 chance of either nothing happening, or the relay energises and my hazards start flashing. If I then turn the indicator stalk left or right and switch the hazards off, the indicators will start working normally. If I switch off the car and switch it straight back on again, then I don't have to mess with the hazards; the indicators will just work normally. If I leave the car for longer than say, 15 or 30 minutes, then I have to go through the whole flick-the-hazards-on malarky.

I should add that I've still got incandescent bull bar repeaters and side repeaters, although I understand that that shouldn't affect the new flasher relay. I've also messed with the trailer resistance setting on the relay but that doesn't change anything. As an aside, my trailer indicator has never worked anyway, and I can't quite work out what the previous owner did with the trailer hookup at the back, except to say that it works when hooked up to a trailer. I'm using the stock harnesses and wiring, which worked fine beforehand and works fine when the indicators feel like playing.

Any thoughts? I was going to get the old relay back in after I've cut pin 7 as suggested on the forums, but I thought I'd post here in case someone read it and instantly knew where the ghosts in my car are. It's a 300tdi... it shouldn't have electronic ghosts! [tonguewink]

Thanks in advance

[roverrescue]

If you look at the wiring diagram for your vintage
Everything runs through that hazard switch and they do play up
You can rebuild them it's usually loss of contact on the plungers

That will be your first port of call

Steve

[zzorbaa]

If you look at the wiring diagram for your vintage
Everything runs through that hazard switch and they do play up
You can rebuild them it's usually loss of contact on the plungers

That will be your first port of call

Steve

Thanks Steve. That's exactly what it was. When I pulled the switch apart, it was on its last legs.

Great call. Cheers.

[Red90]

Don't cut any pins!!! It should all work without problems other than the trailer light. If you want that to work, the RDX relay is a better choice.

Either the hazard switch is faulty or someone has messed with the wiring. You need to grab the wiring schematic and troubleshoot it yourself. My money is on a hazard with a that is the problem. All power for the signals runs through the hazard switch.

[zzorbaa]

So, it's progressed sightly. Fixed the old hazard switch as best I could but its time had come. Replaced it with a new one and now the problem is more predictable. If I start the car, no indicators. Flick the hazards on and the indicators work. Flick them off and then the indicators work normally from this point on.

I'm stumped. At least it's more predictable now, but I can't work out what would cause this. I doubt it's a loose connection or a bad earth because it's so predictable.

[roverrescue]

Has your LED relay got an adjustable dial on it?
Effectively varioster across the trip
Dial that in or replace relay with one that does

Steve

[zzorbaa]

It does. WFL7LED is the model number. Dialling it to any point doesn't seem to make a difference. I might go about hunting for a replacement to see how that goes.

[zzorbaa]

Some progress.

New LED globes arrived for my bullbar repeaters and when I put them in the problem went away.

What I also noticed was that when I pull the globes out of the side repeaters (the only incandescents left in the indicator circuit) that I get both sides flashing, so I must have a bad earth somewhere. We'll see what happens when the LEDs rock up for the side repeaters.

I see a lot of multimeter-ing in my future... [tonguewink]

[Shoogs]

When I did mine the wiring as opposed to the diagram was the opposite, swapped over and all good...

[zzorbaa]

When I did mine the wiring as opposed to the diagram was the opposite, swapped over and all good...

Yep, same here. Had to cut and swap polarity on all of them

[Red90]

When you are 100% leds both sides will flash. You need an RDX dash indicator light or load resistors to fix the problem.

[zzorbaa]

When you are 100% leds both sides will flash. You need an RDX dash indicator light or load resistors to fix the problem.

Excuse my ignorance Red90, but if you have the time, can you explain what causes this? How does lowering the resistance below a certain threshold end up allowing current to pass through the opposite side?

In the meantime, I think my easiest option is to just leave the bulbs in the side repeaters. Can't find an RDX dash indicator light online.

Cheers,

[Dervish]

Excuse my ignorance Red90, but if you have the time, can you explain what causes this? How does lowering the resistance below a certain threshold end up allowing current to pass through the opposite side?

In the meantime, I think my easiest option is to just leave the bulbs in the side repeaters. Can't find an RDX dash indicator light online.

Cheers,

Firstly, you're increasing resistance not decreasing it but that isn't relevant.

Normally a bulb is wired so that it is supplied 12V on one side and earthed on the other. The indicator warning light bulb is wired in to both the left and right indicator circuits; when the left indicators are lit, 12V is supplied to that side of the bulb while the earth is supplied through the bulbs that make up the right side indicator circuit and vice versa.

When incandescent bulbs make up the earth path there's no problem - the indicator warning light bulb limits current to a fraction of an amp - much too low to light one bulb let alone 3. The problem is that LEDs are so damn efficient, almost any current will light them up. And so it does.

By the looks of it, the RDX bulb is two diodes into one side of an LED with an earth strap sticking out. Easy to replicate. When I had that problem I rewired the indicator warning bulb to flash with one side of the indicators and the trailer warning bulb to light with the other. That was before I got jack of the whole warning light cluster and made my own.

[zzorbaa]

Firstly, you're increasing resistance not decreasing it but that isn't relevant.

Normally a bulb is wired so that it is supplied 12V on one side and earthed on the other. The indicator warning light bulb is wired in to both the left and right indicator circuits; when the left indicators are lit, 12V is supplied to that side of the bulb while the earth is supplied through the bulbs that make up the right side indicator circuit and vice versa.

When incandescent bulbs make up the earth path there's no problem - the indicator warning light bulb limits current to a fraction of an amp - much too low to light one bulb let alone 3. The problem is that LEDs are so damn efficient, almost any current will light them up. And so it does.

By the looks of it, the RDX bulb is two diodes into one side of an LED with an earth strap sticking out. Easy to replicate. When I had that problem I rewired the indicator warning bulb to flash with one side of the indicators and the trailer warning bulb to light with the other. That was before I got jack of the whole warning light cluster and made my own.
Thanks Dervish. Great info.

Reckon I'll try my hand at knocking up my own. Can't bring myself to part with a pineapple on eBay for a couple of diodes and a dash light.

Cheers for the help.

[Red90]

Excuse my ignorance Red90, but if you have the time, can you explain what causes this? How does lowering the resistance below a certain threshold end up allowing current to pass through the opposite side?

In the meantime, I think my easiest option is to just leave the bulbs in the side repeaters. Can't find an RDX dash indicator light online.

Cheers,

As Dervis explains the single turn signal indicator in the dash grounds through the lights on the opposite side. LEDs will not pass any current until they reach a certain voltage level (called the forward voltage). It then does not take much to get them to light up. The way the circuit is built, it causes all the lights to turn on. Adding in a resistor, prevents the voltage rising to the forward voltage and the lights cannot turn on until there is enough current available. The dash light limits the current to a point that the voltage can't get high enough.

The best fix is to change the way the dash light is wired. RDX makes one that does this. This is basically a couple of diodes that direct the current through the dash light directly to ground instead of through the opposite side lights.

RDX Fix Kit For LED Indicator Lights Land Rover Defender 200Tdi 300Tdi | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/RDX-Fix-Kit-LED-Indicator-Lights-Land-Rover-Defender-200Tdi-300Tdi-/232280619868?hash=item361500fb5c)

[zzorbaa]

Closing the loop on this one. Turns out my WIPAC flasher was cactus. Bought an RDX one. No problems at all!

[Ranga]

BTW, is the Wipac flasher meant to make the usual clicking sound? Mine doesn't (but all the lights work perfectly).

[AK83]

Strange happenings!
I fitted a WIPAC LED flasher to my D1(300 Tdi) after changing all indicator bulbs, except the two side repeaters ... or so I thought.

Turns out I pulled the main front indicators out to change the bulbs, but I put them back in without changing them! [bigwhistle]

Never had an issue with the indicators working at all, clicking sound and all. Tuned the variable thingie to the point where the trailer light didin't come on.

Then one day it just happened to start flashing fast, which happened to be the day I realised that I forgot to change the front indicator globes. Left globe burnt out.
TJM style bullbar indicator light fittings were changed with new ones that didn't weld the globes in via rust! .. and now all indicators other than the side repeaters are LED.
Works perfectly.

WIPAC LED module doesn't technically fit into the D1(different shape), but it does use the same 4 pin layout. I made up 4 short leads to fit the relay, and used a tie strap to hold the relay into a secure spot.

Hopefully no more burnt out indicator globes(rears are a total PITA to replace on a D1)

[zzorbaa]

BTW, is the Wipac flasher meant to make the usual clicking sound? Mine doesn't (but all the lights work perfectly).Mine did, but then again mine wasn't working so well!

[Ranga]

and now all indicators other than the side repeaters are LED.
Did the bullbar with LED lights today, so now mine are all LED accept the side repeaters. Not a problem, but the pedant in my would like to change these also. I wonder why WIPAC didn't include them in their kit?

[zzorbaa]

Did the bullbar with LED lights today, so now mine are all LED accept the side repeaters. Not a problem, but the pedant in my would like to change these also. I wonder why WIPAC didn't include them in their kit?

I got a couple of T10s like these ones: 12v T10 WHITE 6x LED 360deg (https://www.ledshoponline.com.au/automotive-led-bulbs/LED-dashboard-bulbs/T10-white-wedge-194-LED-360-Australia)

There's a slight problem with those particular ones as the uninsulated parts of the board come into contact with the contacts on bad vibrations and short out. I put the old bulbs in while I hunt around for better T10s.

[AK83]

I finally got my side repeaters for the D1 in the mail today too.

Dunno about the Defender, but the D1 gives very little room for some LED T10 designs. The length of the bulb is the critical bit.

This type:
137611

is no good for the D1, but fits in the D2 no problems.

D1 needs this type:
137612

Note the difference in length from the bulb end of the base to the tip of the LED .. very short.
The D1 bulb is inserted at 90° to the holder and a long LED chip type tops out on the plastic lens.
The D2 bulb is inserted on a 45° angle, so that longer design(up to a point tho!) fits a bit easier.

They're a little bit less bright than even the 5W T10 globes they replaced, but still clearly visible in daylight, so shouldn't come up as a topic of conversation with the law enforcement establishment.
And now my trailer turn indicator light has finally completely vanished.