PC dead?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

ok, so it was going one minute then just stopped.
various clues,,,
when start button is pressed, nothing.... no cpu fan spin, no vid card fan spin.
IF I take out the cmos battery and short the pins I get both fans to spin up for ONE second,, but no pretty light around the start button,,
at some stage I had repeated beeps with no ram or vid card present, so at this stage it was actually running just not posting...
I have power through the MB to light the mouse and charge my phone--
so startup wiring must be ok as I do get a spin,,
just pulled everything of the board, reset battery, one seconf fan spin, no beeps.

[trout1105]

Sounds like it could be the power supply, Have you got another power supply you can use to see if this is the problem?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

yep,,

[Pedro_The_Swift]

same result, one second spin, instant off.

[trout1105]

It could be the CPU or the motherboard itself.
Was the computer playing silly buggers at all prior to the crash or did it just spit the dummy all of a sudden?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

sudden death....

[incisor]

try a different 240v power source or power board...

[Pedro_The_Swift]

plugged it into another wall socket,, fan spin, instant off.

[trout1105]

yep,,

I am talking about the power supply box that is inside the computer case not using a different wall socket or power point.

[Homestar]

In my expert technical opinion Pete - based on years of experience, I can tell you exactly what's wrong with it....

It's ****ed...

[incisor]

I am talking about the power supply box that is inside the computer case not using a different wall socket or power point.

Pretty sure he understood that

I have also seen lots of issues with cheap power boards causing power supplies to trip which is why I suggested what i did....

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Sounds like it could be the power supply, Have you got another power supply you can use to see if this is the problem?


yep,,


same result, one second spin, instant off.

changed psu as requested, result was ^^^^ [wink11]

[Pedro_The_Swift]

am now just waiting for local PC store to open, as I seem to be out of thermal paste(again....)
will swap cpu's and see,,,

[trout1105]

changed psu as requested, result was ^^^^ [wink11]

Bugger[tonguewink]

I suppose the next step is to check the Ram, CPU and Motherboard, Normally if the video card is faulty the computer will still boot up so I doubt that is the problem.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

ram is not the issue,, I have over a dozen DDR3 4gb sticks ( various speeds) with quite a few matching sets,, they cant ALL be faulty,,
heat really shouldnt be an issue, it had been running for several hours till it stopped,, and dont these things have a self preservation sensor?
CPU dead is an easy fix,,
MB is a bit trickier...

[austastar]

Hi,
Similar symptoms to a power switch problem I had.
The internals of the case button that activated the switch itself were jamming it into the pushed in position, causing it to start and then restart.
Drove me nuts till I sorted it by pulling g the switch out and operating it out of the case.
Then a bit of lubrication on the case button freed it up, and it all went back together and worked ok.
Cheers

[Pedro_The_Swift]

switch is a touch rough,, I might just try to jump start it from the pins,,, [bighmmm]

[Pedro_The_Swift]

cpu replaced,
I get the constant beeps now at start, so cpu fan spinning,,
different ram used,,

[Pedro_The_Swift]

single ram stick in slot 2 brings fan spin instant off,
the same stick in slot 1 gives constant beeps

tried a 2gb stick,,
same as above, instant stop in slot 2
constant beeps slot 1

[trout1105]

If it isn't your CPU or ram that is at fault it is starting to look like a MB issue.

[Eevo]

too much p0rn causes this. I've seen it many times...

[trout1105]

too much p0rn causes this. I've seen it many times...

What part?
The Porn or the computer breakdown? [bigrolf]

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I know which one is more fun:bat:

[Bytemrk]

Hi Pete,

My starting point in these situations is always strip the machine down to the bare essentials.... and see how far it will get through boot... disconnect all drives... rip out any expansion cards you don't need... if it has on-board video as well as a video card.. pull out the card....reduce to 1 ram stick if possible and test a second time with a different stick to isolate if its that specific stick... disconnect all the case connectors.. LEDs, power /reset buttons etc and start it by shorting the mainboard pins

Sounds like you have worked through most of that pretty well.

You said you are getting constant beeps..... is it constant... or is it sets of a certain number of beeps just repeating?....often Beep codes can help isolate what is going on.... also the varying behaviour around which slot the ram is in, could be connected to the ram configuration requirements of the board.

What main board is it? Can you see any model numbers etc on it?....

If you look closely at the board, can you see any signs of failure... like a capacitor that's decided to drop its guts etc?

[Tombie]

too much p0rn causes this. I've seen it many times...

You’re meant to avoid fluid ingress.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Its a GA B75M D3V
no swollen caps,,

the machine will short-beep-beep-beep continuosly until it tries to restart.

[trout1105]

You said that your keyboard powers up, Are you able to bypass the normal startup and go directly into the bios ?

[Bytemrk]

Do you still have a video card installed or just the on board?

I assume you have the manual.. if not : http://download.gigabyte.cn/FileList/manual/mb_manual_ga-b75m-d3v_v1.1_e.pdf

Looks like an AMI Bios so beep codes should be: ( manual doesn't seem to cover it)

AMI BIOS
1 short beep ：Memory Error
2 short beep：Memory parity check error.
3 short beep ：basic memory 64K address check error
4 short beep ：Real Time Clock malfunction .
5 short beep ：CPU error
6 short beep：Keyboard error
7 short beep ：CPU interruption error
8 short beep：Graphic card error
9 short beep ：Memory error
10 short beep ：CMOS error
11 short beep ：CPU cache memory malfunction

If you google seems to be not uncommon behaviour with that mainboard.... which is not a great sign....

[Pedro_The_Swift]

You said that your keyboard powers up, Are you able to bypass the normal startup and go directly into the bios ?

if only[bighmmm][tonguewink]
no vid card, and no post. at all. nothing. narda. zip.
just beeps.
and the count is over twenty before reboot.

[Bytemrk]

Sounding a lot like a cactus mainboard Pete [bigsad]

[Pedro_The_Swift]

and i paid a zillion bucks for it too,,
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/554.jpg

sorry Inc,,
I'm begining to think its the house,,,:bat:

[trout1105]

Sounding a lot like a cactus mainboard Pete [bigsad]

+1
Lets hope the board didn't take the CPU out with it on it's bid for suicide .

[AK83]

.....
just pulled everything of the board, reset battery, one seconf fan spin, no beeps.

Did you replace the battery, or check it's voltage, or just put the old one back in?

CMOS battery is known to cause massive headaches such as that you described.

The battery should be easy to find. test with volt meter it should have 3.0v (or maybe 2.99v) at least.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Throughout this fiasco I've been installing and removing that bloody batt,, and yes, its 3.16 or thereabouts, and yes I tried a new one--- [bigrolf]

[trout1105]

Did the new battery fix the problem?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

no,, I'm fairly sure nothing but a different motherboard will fix this problem,,,

[trout1105]

no,, I'm fairly sure nothing but a different motherboard will fix this problem,,,

Bugger, I was hoping that battery fix would work.

[AK83]

.....
If you google seems to be not uncommon behaviour with that mainboard.... which is not a great sign....

Just googled that particular motherboard .. Ultra Durable they reckon! [bighmmm]
(compared to what! :p)



no swollen caps,,

the machine will short-beep-beep-beep continuosly until it tries to restart.

Only ever had two motherboards die or partially die on me (of the countless I've had).
1. really old(as in 286 old) .. BIOS tried to commit suicide, and then finally did cark it when I tried a reset. Had a removable chip for BIOS, but the wholesaler wanted more for the chip than most boards sell for .. that one was junked.

Your is one of Gigabytes dual bios type boards, so BIOS is unlikely to be the issue .. it would have defaulted to the backup bios.

My second board near miss was an old (10+ yr) board that fed it's caps on a massive diet of electrons, 3 or 4 swelled up, easy to remove but harder to find the correct spec types .. Eventually easily sorted tho and had no trouble with it for years after(until ex took it with her).

Sounds more and more like everyone suspects .. M/B has met it's demise.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I've bitten that bullet and pinched the SSD, HDD and R9290 and installed them on a x38 ds5 I've had for a while[bigwhistle]
The MB is pretty much maxed out at 8gb of ram, a Core 2 Quad 6600 and R290. I had to take the HDD cage out due to the R290's length.
But the best bit?
Swapped the SSD with win 10 over, switched it on and it just---
worked. :Thump:

[trout1105]

I've bitten that bullet and pinched the SSD, HDD and R9290 and installed them on a x38 ds5 I've had for a while[bigwhistle]
The MB is pretty much maxed out at 8gb of ram, a Core 2 Quad 6600 and R290. I had to take the HDD cage out due to the R290's length.
But the best bit?
Swapped the SSD with win 10 over, switched it on and it just---
worked. :Thump:

All's well that ends well [thumbsupbig]
You can get adaptors to run the HDD's in the larger slots at the top of the case and I shows that I haven't built a desktop in 6-7 years because that heatsink on the CPU is HUGE, Bloody hell it is nearly as big as the PSU.

[DeanoH]

...................................... that heatsink on the CPU is HUGE, Bloody hell it is nearly as big as the PSU.

Perhaps the weight and leverage the heat sink puts on the motherboard had caused some sort of 'track' or connection failure on the old motherboard ?

Can't see from the pic but is it braced in some way or just cantilevered off the motherboard at its base ?

Did Win10 go crook about a replacement motherboard as earlier Win versions would or go into a frenzy of driver downloads after a basic startup ?

Good to see you're up and running Pedro [bigsmile]



Deano :)

[incisor]

Check the activation status

[Pedro_The_Swift]

[bigrolf] that cooler actually has a second fan as well... its thru bolted to a wide bracket on the back of the MB,,,

thats NOT the one I've been running on the other MB,, thats just the standard intel ally thing,, not even a copper centre any more on those,,

yep its saying activated,,[thumbsupbig]

[Tombie]

All's well that ends well [thumbsupbig]
You can get adaptors to run the HDD's in the larger slots at the top of the case and I shows that I haven't built a desktop in 6-7 years because that heatsink on the CPU is HUGE, Bloody hell it is nearly as big as the PSU.

What it does is illustrate how inefficient the technology has become!!! [emoji6]

CPU manufacturers are pretty stuck nowadays...
More Chips rather than faster chips....

When will the next leap occur?

[DeanoH]

I think the issue here is that by using a large heat sink passive cooling (no fan) can be used. Not an inefficiency thing but a quiet thing. [bigsmile1]

Deano :)

[Tombie]

I think the issue here is that by using a large heat sink passive cooling (no fan) can be used. Not an inefficiency thing but a quiet thing. [bigsmile1]

Deano :)

Except it has 2 fans [emoji6]

[trout1105]

The last time I saw a passive heat sink on a CPU it was on a 486 [bigwhistle]

[DeanoH]

Except it has 2 fans [emoji6]

Appears to be one large, slow (case/power supply type )fan as opposed to the usual CPU 'screamer'. A lot quieter I would think :)

Deano :)

[DeanoH]

The last time I saw a passive heat sink on a CPU it was on a 486 [bigwhistle]

There's been some pretty good passive cooling setups, heat pipes and such on much later CPU's, especially the lower voltage types. :)

Deano :)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

even with two fans running you cant hear it, Noctua build some cool stuff,
the R290 below it has two nearly the same size,, MUCH more likely to hear them,,,, [bigwhistle]

anyway,, Intel used to actually solder the lids on their CPU's,, a much better way (for cooling) than just using the thermal pads they do now.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/629.jpg

aparently this is good for 85W!! not bad,,

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/630.jpg

[Tombie]

Had something similar to the circular one on my last PC... was very effective.

Nowadays don’t generally have desktop PCs..
All portables except the Workshop iMac which is my music/workshop manual/web access..

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Yes the cooler is large,,
but by gum its effective!!
(4 temps at bottom of pic--)

[Wraithe]

Dont know if you have fixed this Pedro, but removing the power supply plug that goes onto M/B, and doing a link between pins 14 and 15 using a paperclip...(you can find a pic showing the pins and the voltages)...

You have either a ATX 20 pin or 24 pin powersupply and considering age, I would say 24 pin... The difference is a 4 pin socket for later graphics cards...

Use the pinout pics to check the voltages with a multimeter...

If that shows everything ok, then go onto the board...

One dropped power source from the power supply and the board wont boot...

Also make sure you check the neg- pins too... No earth, no go...

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Its taken a year or so but I finally tripped over a Gen4 intel cpu,, in this instance a i5 4570,,
which means I can finally unbox this,,

installation was,, tedious best describes it,, it turns out to be extremely fussy with ram installation..

anyway the latest INCcarnation is up and running

[Wraithe]

Its taken a year or so but I finally tripped over a Gen4 intel cpu,, in this instance a i5 4570,,
which means I can finally unbox this,,

installation was,, tedious best describes it,, it turns out to be extremely fussy with ram installation..

anyway the latest INCcarnation is up and running

Some things never change... Ram has always been a head ache...

I run 2 chips in this laptop, not a matched pair... took a bit of fussing to get running but now you would think they got married...

Luckily in my case, I know what to look for and what chips would run together... What irritates me is when you buy a set of 2 or 4 and they act like they are from different planets... Even if the batch numbers match...

Anyway, best of luck Pedro, enjoy your new toy...

[trout1105]

It's always nice to put a new board and CPU in the box, Enjoy [bigrolf]

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I have these nice looking Kingstons,
rated at 1600 at 1.65V,
and the board is rated to 1600,,
but the thing is such a **** to change ram sticks,
maybe i need to grow a pair,,,[bighmmm]



mind you I have NO idea if they work--[bigrolf]

[Wraithe]

Hey Pedro, run a ram test...

Most CMOS's have the ability to test ram and then you can do it with the OS too...

If you have a board set for 1600mhz ram, you buy 2100mhz ram, the increased speed of the ram is not to get more out of your board, as that is limited to 1600mhz, but gives you better stability and if you want to be suicidal you can over clock with the faster ram... I prefer faster ram for stability and the fact it has the ability to keep cooler at the slower speed...

Anyway, still a nice setup and its going, thats the important bit...

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Please explain?
I have run the usual memtest, but for that the board has to bootup,,
not so easy if the ram in question is an unknown quantity---

"Most CMOS's have the ability to test ram"

*goes looking for users manual..

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Well a good 90mins to get the 4 Kingstons working,,
on XMP no less! [biggrin]

pic below is before and after (on right) Kingston installation,,

all the figures increased, except the SDD which went the other way!! [bigsad]

[Tombie]

Faster RAM in a slower board can increase latency.. not significantly but it does do it.

[Wraithe]

Please explain?
I have run the usual memtest, but for that the board has to bootup,,
not so easy if the ram in question is an unknown quantity---

"Most CMOS's have the ability to test ram"

*goes looking for users manual..

Sorry, old talk... CMOS is the BIOS(Built in Operating System)... It was(probably still is) a cmos chip...

I'm getting old and trying to stay away from computers(well said in '92 I would never touch another Computer, as you can see, i'm good to my word, NOT)...

Under the bios you may find a ram test, not all BIOS's have that but some do, depends on the board manufacturer as they will purchase a BIOS programme and alter it to match what they want you to receive...

If you the manual you can find if it has a ram test in the bios... POST(Power On Self Test) does a basic test to reconfigure changes and look for faults on start up, but a load test on the ram is not done...


You'll find its a basic load test, but can give you information about the rams actually timings, ie access, latency etc...Gives you an idea of what board is able to do with the ram without the OS control and the bottlenecking dont involve OS processing queues...

The rest is up to you, have fun, its nice to play with new toys and with that said, i'm off to my model empire....

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Something else I tripped over today,,

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/433.jpg

and while the CoolerMaster design may or may not be to your liking,,
I like its colour very much,,
and no, its not white[tonguewink]

its actually brushed aluminium,,
the inside is mirror like,,

due to the close proximty of the ocean,, my cases are slowly rusting away (dont even start me on the Disco--)
This should solve that issue forever...[thumbsupbig]

[Pedro_The_Swift]

All installed and running[bighmmm], well, running anyway,, the HDD cage requires rails, a bit hard to find this far down the track,,
and after looking at the case, the Vid card will receive all the heat from those 3 hdds, ( part of the plastic shroud on the card actually pokes into the hdd cage holes!! Tight fit!) so--
I'm looking at running the hdds up in the cd rom bays, lots more space, the power cables come from up there, and I have lots of sata leads long enough,
and 3 adaptor brackets are cheaper than 3 hdd rail kits [bigrolf]



as an added bonus,, the case had one of the original Matrox video cards, QID E128, and the special lead required to run FOUR monitors,,
you just know I'm gunna try this out,,[bigrolf]