Thoughts on the D5

[Nicky]

Getting my 2015 D4 serviced, the dealer generously loaned me a brand new HSE D5. My impressions continue below:-
Getting seated in the comfortable leather seat, the steering wheel seemed too skinny cf the D4. Started up OK and moved up. Surprise, the fuel saving stop/start had me fooled. Gentle pressure on the throttle allows the car to remain stationary, more and the engine stops. anyhow off the brake and onto the throttle, and the restart is instant. The cruise controls have moved to the right on the steering wheel and are mixed with the lane-change controls and the adaptive cruise, somewhat fiddly and too close together. Following vehicles on approach set off little indicator lights in the nice large rearview mirrors. The rotary gear selector seems too forward to reach easily. EPB now is totally automatic. The indoor handles have a strange capturing handle to hook your finger into. There is no longer a shelf over the glove-box. Seated, the forward and rear view is good, and of course the rearview camera, with ridiculously high resolution. The 6 turbo diesel seems smooth enough, and yet strangely thirsty (hence the stop start stuff I guess). There is an add-blue port under the bonnet. The info screen is fussy and not always intuitive. Deleting other phones was tricky, as was finding contacts.Bluetooth connection was lost with the Ac on max.
Now moving to the middle row. These seats are definitely too low in the rake, with no upper thigh support. The third row I didn't try, but they have nice electric controls.
The real deal-breaker for me is the one-price tailgate, especially those dangerous sharp lower corners. Coming from the offset spit tailgate of the D4, with it's multifunctional ability, the loss of all this in the D5 is significant. To me this is major design flaw and the devaluation to D5s MK1 will be expensive for LR to rectify in any update. What a blunder!

[Bobc163]

Getting my 2015 D4 serviced, the dealer generously loaned me a brand new HSE D5. My impressions continue below:-
Getting seated in the comfortable leather seat, the steering wheel seemed too skinny cf the D4. Started up OK and moved up. Surprise, the fuel saving stop/start had me fooled. Gentle pressure on the throttle allows the car to remain stationary, more and the engine stops. anyhow off the brake and onto the throttle, and the restart is instant. The cruise controls have moved to the right on the steering wheel and are mixed with the lane-change controls and the adaptive cruise, somewhat fiddly and too close together. Following vehicles on approach set off little indicator lights in the nice large rearview mirrors. The rotary gear selector seems too forward to reach easily. EPB now is totally automatic. The indoor handles have a strange capturing handle to hook your finger into. There is no longer a shelf over the glove-box. Seated, the forward and rear view is good, and of course the rearview camera, with ridiculously high resolution. The 6 turbo diesel seems smooth enough, and yet strangely thirsty (hence the stop start stuff I guess). There is an add-blue port under the bonnet. The info screen is fussy and not always intuitive. Deleting other phones was tricky, as was finding contacts.Bluetooth connection was lost with the Ac on max.
Now moving to the middle row. These seats are definitely too low in the rake, with no upper thigh support. The third row I didn't try, but they have nice electric controls.
The real deal-breaker for me is the one-price tailgate, especially those dangerous sharp lower corners. Coming from the offset spit tailgate of the D4, with it's multifunctional ability, the loss of all this in the D5 is significant. To me this is major design flaw and the devaluation to D5s MK1 will be expensive for LR to rectify in any update. What a blunder!Yes I looked at it also and I must say backward move LR! The mechanical engineering may be great but design wise , nah too much like the discovery sport

[AllTerr]

This is now like the 3rd thread on this very topic....;)

[weeds]

This is now like the 3rd thread on this very topic....;)

In the D3 D4 section.

[Nicky]

Yes I looked at it also and I must say backward move LR! The mechanical engineering may be great but design wise , nah too much like the discovery sport

If only the D5 looked better, more like the unloved but more attractive Disco Sport…..

[scarry]

This is now like the 3rd thread on this very topic....;)

And they all seem to follow the same theme,those that have a D3/4,don't seem to impressed with the D5.........[bawl]

Oh well

[Bobc163]

And they all seem to follow the same theme,those that have a D3/4,don't seem to impressed with the D5.........[bawl]

Oh wellThink that there might be a reason for this ;-)

[Zeros]

Fascinating. ...I wonder how the official D5 sales figures are looking?

D4 is becoming more of an icon every day by the sound of it. I'm sure the D5 is beautiful to drive, but if, as it looks and sounds, it's lost its practicality - it just becomes another elitist expensive SUV amidst the plethora of others from every manufacturer.

i must say I agree re the tailgate! It's massive and almost gave me an uppercut when I opened it in the showroom. ...I was curious and there for reasons other than D5, but I was disappointed in how luxurious it was, with no real base model and no provision for bullbar, standard rubber, etc.

[Nicky]

Fascinating. ...I wonder how the official D5 sales figures are looking?

D4 is becoming more of an icon every day by the sound of it. I'm sure the D5 is beautiful to drive, but if, as it looks and sounds, it's lost its practicality - it just becomes another elitist expensive SUV amidst the plethora of others from every manufacturer.

i must say I agree re the tailgate! It's massive and almost gave me an uppercut when I opened it in the showroom. ...I was curious and there for reasons other than D5, but I was disappointed in how luxurious it was, with no real base model and no provision for bullbar, standard rubber, etc.


I suspect the next Defender will be a stripped out D4, that will bring a lot of fans back to LR. They have all the presses, tooling, production line etc, and it must be soon. The LR selection has been in my view "feminised" and they have realised this.

[PerthDisco]

Annoys the heck out of me how they advertise it in some remote location on 21” wheels with the tag “ready for serious adventure” or some such.

[Bobc163]

Read "serious" translated equals cost a motza ( we don't care you have gone beyond the boundary)

[Nicky]

Read "serious" translated equals cost a motza ( we don't care you have gone beyond the boundary)

I posted on Dec20 2016 :-

"….I wonder how many updates the D5 will need to make it really functional and relatively trouble-free.
If you consider the D4 evolved slowly and thoughtfully from the D3, to what it is now, a very capable and reliable all-rounder, the D5 has a long evolution ahead, stay away for a few updates at least! "

" ….Incremental or not, improvements always are necessary and implemented, good luck with your purchase"

This is still valid for the first D5

[scarry]

I posted on Dec20 2016 :-

"….I wonder how many updates the D5 will need to make it really functional and relatively trouble-free.
If you consider the D4 evolved slowly and thoughtfully from the D3, to what it is now, a very capable and reliable all-rounder, the D5 has a long evolution ahead, stay away for a few updates at least! "

" ….Incremental or not, improvements always are necessary and implemented, good luck with your purchase"

This is still valid for the first D5

That’s probably one of the reasons that more D4s were sold in the last 12 months they were available than any 12 month period previously,in Australia.

The word got around....

[AllTerr]

I still can't fathom why people are bashing this car when they've never driven one or seen it perform......

[Zeros]

I still can't fathom why people are bashing this car when they've never driven one or seen it perform......

It's because it's lost some of its practicality in favour of generic styling and a target market shift.

That's not to say it's not an awesome vehicle, just different from what it was.

[jon3950]

It's because it's lost some of its practicality in favour of generic styling and a target market shift.

That's not to say it's not an awesome vehicle, just different from what it was.

It’s funny though, we’ve said that every time a new Disco comes out. I think “different” is the key word here.

When I had a D1, the D2 was a disaster and I swore never buy one yet I ended up loving it.

To me, the D4 lost too much of the D3’s practicality (unpainted wheel arches, 18” rims, too fancy an interior) but again I loved it and we all now think it’s a such a practical vehicle.

Just give it time. Once there are a few out there being used and a few accessories become available, we’ll soon change our minds.

Cheers,
Jon

[Zeros]

Absolutely you might be right Jon. It's all relative. ..there's a news robot thread comparing the D4 and D5. Predominantly it says the D5 is 'better', but the key problems are to do with losing load space practicality.

And then there's Defender :-) ...maybe.[bigwhistle]

How did luxury become the priority over practicality? It seems anathema to Land Rover and certainly to beardy wierdies like me, but apparently not to others.

[jon3950]

How did luxury become the priority over practicality? It seems anathema to Land Rover and certainly to beardy wierdies like me, but apparently not to others.

No idea, but really we’ve been chasing luxury since we came down out of the trees.

Despite the luxury, the D4 was a practical vehicle. Having had a good look at the D5 I think it still is - it’s lost a few things but gained others. With such a breadth of capability it is far more practical for most of the population than a Defender. It just doesn’t meet the needs of the beardy-weirdies like yourself (I don’t have a beard [wink11]).

Cheers,
Jon

[Zeros]

Coming down from the trees metaphorically can also be seen as a loss of paradise (another form of luxury) in favour of a concrete jungle, which it seems is the primary market for the D5, even more so than the D4.[bigwhistle] And that's all relative too. Going bush in our escape vehicles is effectively a yearning to return to the trees. How we go about it is a many and varied thing which informs the richness of these discussions.

[jon3950]

But do you still want to live in a tree? [biggrin]

The one constant in life is change. We have to accept this but sometimes it’s hard and we yearn for simpler times. I must admit to struggling with much of the way the world is going now and driving a Defender and getting out in the bush is my antidote to it all.

I just find all the hand-wringing amusing (and I’m as guilty as anyone). If Land Rover didn’t respond to the changing market they would cease to exist.

I must admit I was very scathing of the D5 when I first saw and drove it, but it’s starting to grow on me. There’s still things I don’t like about it, some of which has been inherited from the D3. I think once we get used to it though we’ll think of it in the same way as a D4.

For now I’m happy just enjoying the simplicity of my Defender and parking it next to my tree.

Cheers,
Jon

[Zeros]

Yes my Defender enjoys parking next to a tree. 👍😊

But the shift from that actually being the priority, to buying the 'image' of doing it, is blatantly obvious as JLR's new priority.

With JLR reportedly considering buying Aston Martin and a Gold Coast JLR dealer building a new 9 million dollar showroom, as just two examples, the whole notion that Land Rover would cease to exist if it didn't focus entirely on the urban luxury top end of the market is entirely spurious.

[Nicky]

The facial (and other) injuries from the thoughtless design of the D5 tailgate will really create a huge marketing/design problem.

[trout1105]

A large number of the 4WD fraternity usually buy a used 4WD as their project car and I wonder if the lack of live axels and a solid chassis will stop them wanting to buy a used D5 when the time comes and will affect the resale value of these.

[oldsalt]

The facial (and other) injuries from the thoughtless design of the D5 tailgate will really create a huge marketing/design problem.


Couldn't agree more.... that damn tailgate is a deal breaker... [bawl]

[AllTerr]

A D5 will still take you out to the bush and beyond. (Ask Lee Jackson) I'd still by one in a heartbeat if I could afford one, and keep the D2 for a bit more of the hardcore "playing".

[Lee Jackson]

131309

[bbyer]

Couldn't agree more.... that damn tailgate is a deal breaker... [bawl]Millions of Mini Vans over here have that one piece full length tailgate, plus it is on the Ford Explorer here and it looks just like the D5, (which we call the Discovery), as well as being the same size.

The upper and lower hatch on our 3's and 4's probably cost more than double the one piece door, hence the logic. The good news is that the FFRRHSE still has the upper and lower doors, and yes, I hope the new Defender is a coil spring D4 but I think it will instead be your Ford Raptor.

[Nicky]

[QUOTE=bbyer;2734337…..The good news is that the FFRRHSE still has the upper and lower doors, …...[/QUOTE]

So we have to go to the top of the Range now to get back what was messed up because of cost??

[BobD]

Some people, probably many, actually prefer the one piece tailgate for practical reasons. I just can't understand the negativity on here. Its like the Defender vs D4 thread that got completely out of hand. I've given up reading the garbage in the similar thread in this D5 forum. Lots of opinions with very little experience of living with the car.

I have 6 kids and drove around in a Toyota Commuter Bus for many years without any injuries caused by the massive one piece tailgate. Since then I have had 2 VW Transporters and now a Disco Sport, all with one piece tailgates and no issues with getting hit in the face or such things as stated in this thread. While the D4 split tailgate is good for a table or seat, it is terrible for trying to load the very long boot space and provides hardly any protection from rain and sun. I greatly missed the one piece tailgate when I went from a VW Multivan to the D4. There are always swings and roundabouts.

[Nicky]

Some people, probably many, actually prefer the one piece tailgate for practical reasons. I just can't understand the negativity on here. Its like the Defender vs D4 thread that got completely out of hand. I've given up reading the garbage in the similar thread in this D5 forum. Lots of opinions with very little experience of living with the car.

I have 6 kids and drove around in a Toyota Commuter Bus for many years without any injuries caused by the massive one piece tailgate. Since then I have had 2 VW Transporters and now a Disco Sport, all with one piece tailgates and no issues with getting hit in the face or such things as stated in this thread. While the D4 split tailgate is good for a table or seat, it is terrible for trying to load the very long boot space and provides hardly any protection from rain and sun. I greatly missed the one piece tailgate when I went from a VW Multivan to the D4. There are always swings and roundabouts.

The difference is your Toyota bus tailgate was manually operated, and you were in charge of the kids. So are the other one piece tails, all manual. It's the remote function that is dangerous. Sit on the offset tail in a D4 with your tea maker beside you and look at all our beautiful scenery. Now try carrying long timbers with that tail open in the D5, good luck with that. Easy in a D4 with the glass half down. Not negative just practical.

[Tombie]

The facial (and other) injuries from the thoughtless design of the D5 tailgate will really create a huge marketing/design problem.

Care to explain?

Don’t hear of a phenomenal amount of Commodore or Falcon wagon injuries, nor any of the Korean offerings!

Or for that matter any other full size tailgate.


I have however, given the old nuts a mighty hit on the lower tailgate of the D4! And knocked my head on the top half a few dozen times!

[Disco-tastic]

The gas struts in my D3 are starting to go and I've hit my head on the top tailgate a number of times.

Its waay worse if its at access height.

[Nicky]

Care to explain?

Don’t hear of a phenomenal amount of Commodore or Falcon wagon injuries, nor any of the Korean offerings!

Or for that matter any other full size tailgate.


I have however, given the old nuts a mighty hit on the lower tailgate of the D4! And knocked my head on the top half a few dozen times!

It's the auto remote function opening that can be dangerous, especially the sharp corners. Stand clear all.

[Tombie]

Again, I haven’t seen any evidence of people knocking themselves out on one in a Cruiser etc...

We can’t account for inattentive people [emoji6]

The sensors on them are very good though.. if it feels the slightest impediment it reacts..

[Tombie]

The corners are no sharper than the D4 (which is a thinner section btw). The curves on the D5 tail are reasonably broad by comparison.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/662.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/663.jpg

[jon3950]

Yes my Defender enjoys parking next to a tree. 👍😊

But the shift from that actually being the priority, to buying the 'image' of doing it, is blatantly obvious as JLR's new priority.

With JLR reportedly considering buying Aston Martin and a Gold Coast JLR dealer building a new 9 million dollar showroom, as just two examples, the whole notion that Land Rover would cease to exist if it didn't focus entirely on the urban luxury top end of the market is entirely spurious.

I don’t think it is spurious at all. If they don’t build vehicles that will sell in sufficient numbers to turn a profit they will cease to exist.

JLR’s priority is to make a profit and grow the company. To do this they need to build what the market wants. As a low volume niche player they also need to concentrate on vehicles with high margins and this means prestige vehicles. Defender can never do this as it needs to compete against high volume, low margin vehicles like Hi-Lux. JLR just do not have the capacity to build these high volumes. This may very well change in the future of course.

The 4WD market has seen huge growth over the last decade or so but it has also become very fragmented. Whereas once Discovery could cover a large part of the market LR now need to make more specialised models to compete in more market segments - just look at how many new models have been released in recent years. Bringing a new model to market takes a lot of work so they can’t all happen at once. Also, to maintain any sort of economies of scale these vehicles need to share platforms and engineering with as many other models as possible - more difficult for a low volume manufacturer.

Even if all their new models had been ready for release they still have the problem of production capacity. They have been making significant investments in new production facilities to cope with the increasing volume - the new Ingenium plant in Wolverhampton, the new assembly plants in China, Brazil and now Slovakia, as well as well as re-organising production at Solihull, Castle Bromwich and Halewood.

They have clearly stated they have a three family strategy - Range Rover, Discovery and Defender. Being a relatively small company with limited capital available they have had to prioritise investment in the most profitable vehicles, so Range Rover was dealt with first as it is the high-end luxury family with the highest margins.

The Discovery family is aimed at the “lifestyle” market. The strategy they have chosen with D5 is to position it to compete with the likes of X5 and Q7, which in reality have already become it’s main competitors. They could have called it something else but they chose use Discovery, no doubt to take advantage of the off-road cred the name has.

Now the Range Rover family is pretty much complete (much of the Velar work was done developing the F-Pace platform) and the main Discovery models are now released they can move to Defender.

The Defender family will be aimed at the utilitarian market and will effectively replace both the previous Defender and what we perceive the previous Discoveries to be, namely your more “practical” type vehicles. Despite what people think the design of the new Defender is well advanced and the legacy of the previous model is being taken very seriously. I think we need to wait until this model range is released before we judge them.

The point I’m trying to make with all of this is that the world has moved on and JLR are now competing in a very different and far more sophisticated (and crowded) market than when just making a Land Rover and a Range Rover was good enough.

Cheers,
Jon

[jon3950]

And we all know how practical the rear door is on a Defender. [thumbsupbig]

Funny thing is, when I went from a D2 to a D3 I hated the split tailgate and missed the the door of the D1 & D2. Now I’ve gone from a D4 to a Defender I miss the split tailgate.

Go figure.

[BobD]

The difference is your Toyota bus tailgate was manually operated, and you were in charge of the kids. So are the other one piece tails, all manual. It's the remote function that is dangerous. Sit on the offset tail in a D4 with your tea maker beside you and look at all our beautiful scenery. Now try carrying long timbers with that tail open in the D5, good luck with that. Easy in a D4 with the glass half down. Not negative just practical.

I didn't realise my DS was manual. Perhaps we should stop using the remote or the button on the door or the kick to open function if it is manual! Also, the door goes up slowly with electric linear actuators to raise it, so there is no issue with a sudden hit in the face. My wife who uses the DS every day carting grandkids around laughed when I showed her these statements about the remote operated tailgates hurting people.

Good luck with the law and other safety hazards carrying stuff with an open tailgate! I would never ever do that in my D4, full stop. That is not a practical reason at all unless you are on a farm and don't care about OH&S.

[scarry]

Sit on the offset tail in a D4 with your tea maker beside you and look at all our beautiful scenery. Now try carrying long timbers with that tail open in the D5, good luck with that. Easy in a D4 with the glass half down. Not negative just practical.

IMHO,the D4 has the best tailgate set up of any vehicle in its class.
It is extremely versatile,and very handy.
Standing on the tailgate with the top door down to access anything on the roof is one thing that won't be able to be done with the new model set up.


I can't see the foxwing i have fitting the D5,as the rear door raises up way too high,another after market accessories that won't fit the this new model.

Mcgovern,or what ever his name is,said to the media,the old set up was prone to rust and these days,you cant get away with rear panels not fitting correctly.

What a load of garbage.

What he really meant was the target competition vehicles in the market we are aiming at have this set up so thats the way we have gone.
And it is probably easier and cheaper to manufacture.

[Zeros]

I think all current Land Rover models are aimed at the Range Rover market. Which leaves whatever Defender will be to cater to both Discovery and Defender markets.

Land Rover may be niche compared to Toyota, but JLR is certainly not short of a quid if it's looking at buying Aston.

[ramblingboy42]

stop whinging you lot....
you would all have one if you could afford one....
Justification for your non ability to buy?
Do you think Land Rover didn't put a lot of thought and design into this vehicle?
whether you guys buy one or not it is already a good thing for Land Rover.
I'll have one thanks.

[jon3950]

They certainly seemed to be cashed up at the moment, but Aston Martin aren’t worth much. Ford sold them for US$925m in 2007.

To put it in perspective, JLR produce about half a million vehicles annually and turnover about US$29b, compared to Toyota’s nearly 9 million vehicles and US$250b.

Tata paid US$2.3b for JLR in 2008 which was considered over-priced. While they would be worth more than that now, Toyota have a net worth of US$236b.

[BobD]

stop whinging you lot....
you would all have one if you could afford one....
Justification for your non ability to buy?
Do you think Land Rover didn't put a lot of thought and design into this vehicle?
whether you guys buy one or not it is already a good thing for Land Rover.
I'll have one thanks.

And in the future everyone will be grizzling about how good the D5 was and how the new model is no good because .....

By the way France is heading together with some other European countries, the next generations will be either Hybrid with enough battery capacity to get through the cities or fully electric, and we will be griping about that!

[bbyer]

For me, I am less negative on the D5 after participating last week in one of those Land Rover / Jaguar customer events where a factory team shows up with a gaggle of vehicles and lets types like me either ride in or drive them.

I was in the back seat of a D5 with a factory team member driving. It turns out, the 5 is no Ford Explorer, that I can definitely say.

Yes, it looks like one, but the 5 can do the balance on two wheels trick going over sharp ridges without the glass roof popping out etc. Most dramatic for me, was the driver, (a lady), shifting her weight towards the drivers door to get the 5 to tip the correct direction once it was balanced at the peak of the structure. That I will never do - the vehicle might have the capability but I don't.

Re the liftgate bit, yes, one has to step back, but that is normal with all of them with the single. I like my lower tailgate on my 3, but then I like pickups so ....

The main problem I have is with the styling and that is the raised belt line, common on all cars now, not just Land Rover.

The raised belt line means the side glass is higher and one cannot easily drive with an elbow on the door sill. I guess one does not do that on the freeway so for most, I guess that is not a real concern.

Hopefully the new Defender will be the solution to my retro way of thinking.

[Zeros]

They certainly seemed to be cashed up at the moment, but Aston Martin aren’t worth much. Ford sold them for US$925m in 2007.

To put it in perspective, JLR produce about half a million vehicles annually and turnover about US$29b, compared to Toyota’s nearly 9 million vehicles and US$250b.

Tata paid US$2.3b for JLR in 2008 which was considered over-priced. While they would be worth more than that now, Toyota have a net worth of US$236b.


Why is everyone comparing JLR with Toyota as if its some kind of financial / production holy grail?

Isn't being different to Toyota the reason we like Land Rover?

The bigger JLR gets, the more generic their vehicles will become. It's already happening. ...McGoverns statement that the new Defender will compete with Hilux illustrates this perfectly.
Those who are arguing that JLR is poor and needs to meet the market, are also arguing for a mass market generic future for JLR. Sadly I think you guys are right and that's what's happening. ... I'm arguing against that, not that it will make any difference LOL.

[jon3950]

Why is everyone comparing JLR with Toyota as if its some kind of financial / production holy grail?

Isn't being different to Toyota the reason we like Land Rover?

The bigger JLR gets, the more generic their vehicles will become. It's already happening. ...McGoverns statement that the new Defender will compete with Hilux illustrates this perfectly.
Those who are arguing that JLR is poor and needs to meet the market, are also arguing for a mass market generic future for JLR. Sadly I think you guys are right and that's what's happening. ... I'm arguing against that, not that it will make any difference LOL.

When you say everyone you mean me. [biggrin]

The only reason I was comparing JLR to Toyota was to illustrate the point that they are a relatively small manufacturer and do not currently have the capacity to produce a high volume, low margin vehicle.

I’m not really arguing anything here. I’m just trying to explain the commercial realities that JLR face which have led to the product strategy they have. I’m not suggesting they are poor, just relatively small which limits their options. However until Tata bought them they had basically always struggled to invest in new models.

I would have thought that it was self-evident that to remain in business, any company needs to sell a product that the market wants and JLR is no exception. If you’re arguing against this premise, what would you suggest they do instead?

[jon3950]

IMHO,the D4 has the best tailgate set up of any vehicle in its class.
It is extremely versatile,and very handy.
Standing on the tailgate with the top door down to access anything on the roof is one thing that won't be able to be done with the new model set up.


I can't see the foxwing i have fitting the D5,as the rear door raises up way too high,another after market accessories that won't fit the this new model.

Mcgovern,or what ever his name is,said to the media,the old set up was prone to rust and these days,you cant get away with rear panels not fitting correctly.

What a load of garbage.

What he really meant was the target competition vehicles in the market we are aiming at have this set up so thats the way we have gone.
And it is probably easier and cheaper to manufacture.

Yeah, I liked the tailgate set-up in the D4 too - at least once I got used to it.

Can’t say I have a strong opinion either way though on the D5 set-up. I’m sure it’s better than the Defender’s.

One thing I’m not keen on is the electric opening. Can you open it if one of the actuators fails in the middle of nowhere and you have a cargo barrier? At least in the Defender you can open a window or push one of the rear quarter windows out.

Interestingly I’ve heard it said a few times that the hardest part to designing a car is getting the door seals right. So I’m sure ease of manufacturing would have something to do with it.

[scarry]

Yeah, I liked the tailgate set-up in the D4 too - at least once I got used to it.

Can’t say I have a strong opinion either way though on the D5 set-up. I’m sure it’s better than the Defender’s.

One thing I’m not keen on is the electric opening. Can you open it if one of the actuators fails in the middle of nowhere and you have a cargo barrier? At least in the Defender you can open a window or push one of the rear quarter windows out.

Interestingly I’ve heard it said a few times that the hardest part to designing a car is getting the door seals right. So I’m sure ease of manufacturing would have something to do with it.

The Defenders is probably one of the worst around as it is way to narrow.

Hang on,time to hide under a rock.....[tonguewink]

But it is almost a 70 year old design[bigwhistle]

[Disco-tastic]

One thing I’m not keen on is the electric opening. Can you open it if one of the actuators fails in the middle of nowhere and you have a cargo barrier? At least in the Defender you can open a window or push one of the rear quarter windows out.


The few electric tailgates ive seen can be opened manually.

It still doesn't help if the lock actuator fails, like what can happen in the D3, D4.

[Zeros]

...ok it's a discussion not argument 👍

When you say everyone you mean me. [biggrin] Yes and whoever else thinks JLR should become a high volume low margin company 😊

The only reason I was comparing JLR to Toyota was to illustrate the point that they are a relatively small manufacturer and do not currently have the capacity to produce a high volume, low margin vehicles. i know, that's what I disagree with. The high volume manufacturers turn out bland generic vehicles. I like Land Rover as an innovator not a follower. Having the capacity to produce high volume is not the holy grail.

I’m not really arguing anything here. I’m just trying to explain the commercial realities that JLR face which have led to the product strategy they have. I’m not suggesting they are poor, just relatively small which limits their options. However until Tata bought them they had basically always struggled to invest in new models. I don't see that their options are limited. They are making exactly what they want to make - luxury urban escape vehicles at the cutting edge of technology. Yes they can afford to invest in new models...I am saying I dont agree with their priorities. They could have prioritised two more utilitarian models in front of the past 3 or four luxury models if they'd wanted to. The market for these is actually bigger.

I would have thought that it was self-evident that to remain in business, any company needs to sell a product that the market wants and JLR is no exception. If you’re arguing against this premise, what would you suggest they do instead? I disagree. Staying in business requires innovation and leadership, not following what others are doing. JLR is doing this at the luxury end of the market albeit in increasingly generic looking packages. But they have dropped the ball for years in the utilitarian / work sector.

...and back on topic, the D5 tailgate is bigger and heavier than any I've ever seen.

[Tombie]

Heavier? Have you weighed it? [emoji6]

[D5hse]

the rear door isn't a problem for me,what is the size of the front doors if needed to open when off road will be - they are huge. and everything is an extra cost on what should be standard equipment.

[rammypluge]

The width of the defender rear door has one advantage that you can load items up next to the door and they will be held in before you shut the door and after you open it.

A top hinged full fold down door can be okay if you are loading boxes or the like, but if there are a variety of camping bits and bobs it can be harder to load, and when you open the door it uncontrollably auto unloads.

Either can be managed.

[plusnq]

The few electric tailgates ive seen can be opened manually.

It still doesn't help if the lock actuator fails, like what can happen in the D3, D4.


I have a D4 and have fitted the manual release cable. I don’t understand why when we have all the mandated safety features we don’t have a manual interior door release on all doors including the rear.

[bbyer]

I have a D4 and have fitted the manual release cable. I don’t understand why when we have all the mandated safety features we don’t have a manual interior door release on all doors including the rear.That is a good question.

The older FFRRHSE vehicles had a manual tailgate release, but not the D3 nor the D4 and I guess now the D5. As to the new body FFRRHSE, it does have the old style two door split rear tailgate, but as to manual release, again, I do not know.

I do not know if run of the production minivan vehicles have rear hatch releases either.

I guess the interesting question is does what we call the 4Runner over here, (maybe a Prado?) have a manual rear hatch release?

[plusnq]

That is a good question.

The older FFRRHSE vehicles had a manual tailgate release, but not the D3 nor the D4 and I guess now the D5. As to the new body FFRRHSE, it does have the old style two door split rear tailgate, but as to manual release, again, I do not know.

I do not know if run of the production minivan vehicles have rear hatch releases either.

I guess the interesting question is does what we call the 4Runner over here, (maybe a Prado?) have a manual rear hatch release?

I dont know about the Prado but I do know my Landcruiser 100 series wagon did.

[bbyer]

I don't know about the Prado but I do know my Landcruiser 100 series wagon did.Per the attached one page pdf and to my surprise, yes, over here, the Toyota 4Runner, (model year 2016 at least), has an interior manual mechanical rear hatch release.

One has to pop off a small access plate, then cut thru the dust seal and with ones hand, dig around until you find a release handle and per the illustration, pull up on it.

I think Land Rover is going to have to "up there game".

131814

[PhilipA]

Funny this discussion is timely as at ALDI yesterday I saw a very confused looking couple trying to get their 200 Cruiser tailgate to close with no success.
I don't know whether they had not satisfied a criterion like all doors shut or something, but gee it would be a problem if out camping!

The top tailgate popping open on my RRC was bad enough.
Regards Philip A
PS , I have fitted a loop of wire to the rear door handle of my D2 and carry a long bit of wire with a hook , in case my lock freezes.

[shamirj]

It is suprising that the D1 and D2 had the rear tailgate internal door release handle but the D3/4 don't. I am concerned that in a serious accident one day if a tree was to fall midway of vehicle trapping two occupants in the rear rear seats (3rd row) with only escape via the back door no one can open from within the vehicle. serious safety issue. they would need to wait for assistance to get out. i have rear drawers so don't use the 3rd row seats.

on another note, driving home saw a new D5 driving on the roads with 'northern beaches landrover' on side decal and number plate 'LNDRVR' obviously a dealer D5. Could not capture a pic.

finally when the D1 first came out i hated them, then bought one. D2 rear tail light thought was ugly then bought some. D3 different again liked it so bought one. D4 better still. D5 unsure but over time sure it will grow on us all. as more newer makes/models come onto the scene (good or bad) our perspectives will change about the D5 as the motor industry is always evolving.