How ever did the Land rover get invented?

[Wraithe]

I must ask, how did the landrover get invented when the brits cant get a vacumm cleaner going to start with?..

https://videos.files.wordpress.com/Xblfe4qf/retired-vacum-cleaner_dvd.mp4

But then again I have also seen one trying to start a Stihl concrete cutting machine...


Apprentice trying to bump off the stihl saw - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RjVJzHbzdk)

[Rickoz]

I must ask, how did the landrover get invented when the brits cant get a vacumm cleaner going to start with?..

https://videos.files.wordpress.com/Xblfe4qf/retired-vacum-cleaner_dvd.mp4

But then again I have also seen one trying to start a Stihl concrete cutting machine...


Apprentice trying to bump off the still saw - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RjVJzHbzdk)
Found this a long time ago The Land Rover History: Timeline (https://www.winwaed.com/landy/history/timeline.php)

[Wraithe]

Found this a long time ago The Land Rover History: Timeline (https://www.winwaed.com/landy/history/timeline.php)


The 4wd as we know it today, all developed from wars...

The Landy in 48' and the toyota and Nissan in 51'...

Toyo and nissan where contracts for the Korean campaign...Both based around the Willy's idea, also...

These ideas of vehicles came from years before hand, during steam traction vehicles and the necessity of travelling large vehicles and small across tracks originally for horses and carts.. Remember also the Cart/Sulky/Dray where very restricted by the fact most countries only had paths not roads, thus the railway concept was one of the solutions to get products and people to places. And as we know from history, the canal had its place too in some countries.. The romans probably made the biggest difference in Europe but outside of that, we had to start from scratch and the 4wd still has its place to get people and products to a destination unreachable by a car all year...

But looking at the videos, pull starting a vacumm cleaner, now that makes me wonder about the pommes...

[JDNSW]

As you say, four wheel drives came about mainly because of wars. They were introduced before the first World War, and were used in large numbers during that was, although light four wheel drives such as the landrover hardly existed.

Between the wars, the story became all half-tracks, with, for example, Citroen doing a number of African trips using half-tracks. In the mid twenties, the invention of CV joints, especially the Tracta joint by Gregoire, made driving front axles more satisfactory, paving the way for four wheel drives.

By the late thirties, half-tracks were getting less satisfactory, mainly because with increasing paved roads, the damage due to tracks became less acceptable, and speeds were able to be maintained that half-tracks had difficulty with. The British Army, and following them, the USA army, experimented with light utility vehicles based on the Austin Seven. This led to prototype four wheel drive versions from Bantam, the North American distributor of Austins. This in turn led to a competition involving Bantam, Willys and Ford. The Bantam design was the successful one, but was put into production by Ford and Willys using the Willys engine as the 'Jeep'.

At the end of WW2, with tens of thousands of ex-soldiers used to these Jeeps, Willys in the US continued making modified versions for the civilian market. With these unavailable in the sterling area, Rover designed what was effectively a copy of the Jeep, with all the improvements they could think of for civilian use, plus modifying the design to use available production methods and as many existing parts as possible, and the Landrover was born. Actually, it had very little in common with the Jeep except for dimensions, and the fact that both used the same general layout.

[travelrover]

As you say, four wheel drives came about mainly because of wars. They were introduced before the first World War, and were used in large numbers during that was, although light four wheel drives such as the landrover hardly existed.

Between the wars, the story became all half-tracks, with, for example, Citroen doing a number of African trips using half-tracks. In the mid twenties, the invention of CV joints, especially the Tracta joint by Gregoire, made driving front axles more satisfactory, paving the way for four wheel drives.

By the late thirties, half-tracks were getting less satisfactory, mainly because with increasing paved roads, the damage due to tracks became less acceptable, and speeds were able to be maintained that half-tracks had difficulty with. The British Army, and following them, the USA army, experimented with light utility vehicles based on the Austin Seven. This led to prototype four wheel drive versions from Bantam, the North American distributor of Austins. This in turn led to a competition involving Bantam, Willys and Ford. The Bantam design was the successful one, but was put into production by Ford and Willys using the Willys engine as the 'Jeep'.

At the end of WW2, with tens of thousands of ex-soldiers used to these Jeeps, Willys in the US continued making modified versions for the civilian market. With these unavailable in the sterling area, Rover designed what was effectively a copy of the Jeep, with all the improvements they could think of for civilian use, plus modifying the design to use available production methods and as many existing parts as possible, and the Landrover was born. Actually, it had very little in common with the Jeep except for dimensions, and the fact that both used the same general layout.

I recall reading somewhere the width of the Land Rover was somewhat dictated by the centuries old British Army 6 foot track. The width of a laden packhorse and as referred to early wagons, drays and the like. And troops in columns of two. Or is that a myth that appears after the series 1?

[Fifth Columnist]

The Landrover (That's how it was spelt) was invented because Farmer Wilks' second hand WW2 Jeep kept breaking down and, as the owner of Rover, he thought he could make something better.

[JDNSW]

... Or is that a myth that appears after the series 1?

Myth I am afraid. For several reasons. The Landrover track was a direct copy of the Jeep, as were the other dimensions - except that to fit the Rover engine in, the chassis had to be widened, and added to the fact that the Rover chassis was a box structure and the side rails wider than the Jeeps pressed steel U-sections, the track had to be widened, from memory two inches, to allow a reasonable turning circle. (And the track was again increased with the introduction of the Series 2 in 1958, and again with the 110 in 1983.)

But the Jeep's track was copied from the Austin Seven, which may in turn have been influenced by the common track of light horsedrawn vehicles that it was intended to replace. And these in turn, I have seen it alleged, were copied from the standard track used by the Romans!

John

[JDNSW]

The Landrover (That's how it was spelt) was invented because Farmer Wilks' second hand WW2 Jeep kept breaking down and, as the owner of Rover, he thought he could make something better.

Not exactly - The Wilkes brothers were MD (Spencer) and engineering manager (Maurice) of the Rover company, not owners of the company. During the winter of 1947, Maurice's car was unable to traverse his long driveway due to snow and ice, so he borrowed a neighbour's disposals Jeep, buying it a short time later. He was impressed with its utility, and realised that with dollar area imports not possible, there was a market opening for one made in England. At the same time, the government started placing a number of restrictions on car manufacturers, which meant that Rover would not survive with its existing and planned products.

This led to to Maurice taking his Jeep to the factory, where it was stripped to the chassis and a concept vehicle built using the Jeep rolling chassis, fitted with a Rover engine and gearbox, and a completely new body made from light alloy. This was the fabled "Centre Steer" 'prototype'. There is no record of breakdowns of the Jeep.

Actually more of a concept vehicle, it was used mainly to demonstrate to the board the sort of thing that could be built, to get approval to proceed. The first actual prototypes, or actually part of a preproduction batch, were able to appear at the Amsterdam Motor Show in March 1948, unveiling the Landrover to the world. (Try developing a car from scratch in that time today!)

[cuppabillytea]

I must ask, how did the landrover get invented when the brits cant get a vacumm cleaner going to start with?..

https://videos.files.wordpress.com/Xblfe4qf/retired-vacum-cleaner_dvd.mp4

But then again I have also seen one trying to start a Stihl concrete cutting machine...


Apprentice trying to bump off the stihl saw - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RjVJzHbzdk)

Well you know how to start something.[bigwhistle]

[cuppabillytea]

Myth I am afraid. For several reasons. The Landrover track was a direct copy of the Jeep, as were the other dimensions - except that to fit the Rover engine in, the chassis had to be widened, and added to the fact that the Rover chassis was a box structure and the side rails wider than the Jeeps pressed steel U-sections, the track had to be widened, from memory two inches, to allow a reasonable turning circle. (And the track was again increased with the introduction of the Series 2 in 1958, and again with the 110 in 1983.)

But the Jeep's track was copied from the Austin Seven, which may in turn have been influenced by the common track of light horsedrawn vehicles that it was intended to replace. And these in turn, I have seen it alleged, were copied from the standard track used by the Romans!

John

Which in turn is reputed to be 4' 8 1/2". the Standard gauge for railways.
What was the track of the Austin 7?

Austin 7 was 40".

[V8Ian]

Standard gauge was initially 4'8", the half inch was added when the flanges started to bind.

[JDNSW]

Standard gauge was not "standard" initially - Stephenson just used the gauge that the colliery he was working for had always used (and the origin of this was lost in the mists of time). Other collieries did not use the same gauge, although they tended to be around the same length, being about the same as typical carts in the area. The gauge became standard as Stephenson's influence spread, but there were a wide variety of gauges used in the early railways. Even in England, the home of modern railways, standard gauge did not become (more or less) standard until 1892 when the last broad gauge train ran, although all new lines were supposed to be standard from 1846. But in Ireland, 5'3" was set as the standard.

[p38arover]

Standard gauge was not "standard" initially - Stephenson just used the gauge that the colliery he was working for had always used (and the origin of this was lost in the mists of time). Other collieries did not use the same gauge, although they tended to be around the same length, being about the same as typical carts in the area. The gauge became standard as Stephenson's influence spread, but there were a wide variety of gauges used in the early railways. Even in England, the home of modern railways, standard gauge did not become (more or less) standard until 1892 when the last broad gauge train ran, although all new lines were supposed to be standard from 1846. But in Ireland, 5'3" was set as the standard.

Brunel used a 7 ft gauge!

[travelrover]

Brunel used a 7 ft gauge!He always thought big.

[JDNSW]

Yes, the 1892 date i gave was when the last 7' gauge service ran. Brunel thought that the rolling stock should be in between the wheels, not on top of them. His broad gauge may have caught on if he had used a loading gauge much larger as well, but his loading gauge was not significantly bigger than that of standard gauge lines.

The broad gauge gave a better ride, although this advantage tended to fade as the standards of permanent way improved. As against this, the cost of the roadbed was much greater, sleepers had to be much longer, and a larger curve radius was needed.

Interestingly, it seems a lot of track in England in the period 1846-1892 was dual gauge (as is a significant amount of track in Victoria today).

[jonesfam]

Back to who invented the first Land Rover?

God, & she did a pretty good job of it!

[Gordie]

Back to who invented the first Land Rover?

God, & she did a pretty good job of it!
Of course she did...perfectly designed to cost men a lot of money.....[bigwhistle]

[Wraithe]

Yes, the 1892 date i gave was when the last 7' gauge service ran. Brunel thought that the rolling stock should be in between the wheels, not on top of them. His broad gauge may have caught on if he had used a loading gauge much larger as well, but his loading gauge was not significantly bigger than that of standard gauge lines.

The broad gauge gave a better ride, although this advantage tended to fade as the standards of permanent way improved. As against this, the cost of the roadbed was much greater, sleepers had to be much longer, and a larger curve radius was needed.

Interestingly, it seems a lot of track in England in the period 1846-1892 was dual gauge (as is a significant amount of track in Victoria today).

Standard guage was agreed upon...

One of the reason behind it was the axle lengths... Axle loadings are reduced when the axle lengths increase...

The number of railways world wide that followed the gauge we call standard, also dictated towards the standard gauge...

The narrow gauge lines prevaled where tracks had to go around sharper curves, like the track that Puffing Billy runs on... Here in WA we started at 3'6" due to the hills we had to go over and the timber railways had the influence of needing mainline trackage to move lumber...

Broad gauge was good on country that didnt need tight curves but axle loadings where an issue...

England had track gauges from 15 inch upto 7ft... I think they even take into account the mine gauge of 12 inch too, but not sure...

[tony66_au]

I must ask, how did the landrover get invented when the brits cant get a vacumm cleaner going to start with?..

https://videos.files.wordpress.com/Xblfe4qf/retired-vacum-cleaner_dvd.mp4

But then again I have also seen one trying to start a Stihl concrete cutting machine...


Apprentice trying to bump off the stihl saw - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RjVJzHbzdk)


Something worth knowing about Pomgolian manufacturing and their Bad reputation is that before the 70's turmoil they actually did quite good work.

The whole Bodgy Men in sheds rep is undeserved and mainly an early 70's to mid 80's issue more than anything.

Having owned numerous British Marques I generally avoid certain known model dates (Like SII Jags and Leyland lol ) but the engineering is almost always awesome, Sadly at times the execution was flawed.

The other thing is that most of these cars where never meant to last as long as they have nor operate in the conditions they inhabit and our own personal experiences also dictate out levels of enjoyable ownership.

Ive bought Jags that leaked and burned huge amounts of oil and cured them by cleaning a brass mesh breather and using the right oil and after replacing blown seals never had another issue..
Same with Rangies with the wrong oils in the driveline or badly rebuilt swivel hubs etc and the Humble engines also need care and know how.

British cars are a popular target but for their time they where mostly excellent things to own once you'd sorted them properly.

[Classic88]

Seems a bit harsh when it was the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution.

[Wraithe]

Just to kill my own thread...

All vehicles have good points and bad... But to be honest to the vehicles(and machinery for that matter), most problems are caused by that big nut behind the wheel(or controls)...

If your driving a mini, dont expect it to do the job of a Mack truck, and if your driving a LandRover, dont use it as a Rock Hopper...

I love seeing people hammer the hell out of a 4wd or car, as if they are rally vehicles...

I have even had to cart loads with trucks that had small engines, even tho they where rated for 120 tonnes, the engine was more suitable for 50 tonne, but slow and steady, they lasted and got the jobs done...One reason I am deaf, I stopped listening to the abuse and waiving fists from idiots roaring past and telling me to go up a gear...

This applies to everything I drive, I get the most out of my vehicles for a long time... IE my Holden ute, capable of 200+ kmh but I got well over 300,000 k's out of the auto and that involved a lot of towing(3.5tonne trailer) and heavy work, yet still doubled the transmissions expected life...And all thats wrong with it is the reversing clutches, but I'll do a full rebuild, engine and trans and the body then put it in the shed for the monthly sunday drive...

Whats that old saying, dont abuse the tools, its not there fault you stuffed up...