Tyre Problems, 2015.5 Vogue TDV6

[peter g]

Hi Guys, wondering if anyone has experienced this problem.
Last week I fitted a new set of wheels fitted with 275/55/20 Pirelli ATR's, I will write about these another day when I have done a few km with them.
The car was fitted with the standard 255/55/20 Goodyear Eagles. It has now done 20,000km. I purchased the car new and have been the main driver. It has only been off the bitumen for 300km. However when I removed the front tyres I discovered significant chipping, cutting to the inside of the tread, identical on both front tyres. The rear tyres were perfect, no chipping.
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3rd pic shows full tread width most chipping on inside, consistent all around on both tyres, 2nd and 4th show chipping/slicing close up, 1st pic outside of tread, mostly undamaged.
The state the front tyres are in they would probably only do another 10,000km. while the rears would be good for a further 20-25,000km.
I took them back to local LR dealer asking why they hadn't brought this to my attention at last service, (only 2000km ago), no apology, not helpful, stated "these cars are hard on tyres", asked had he seen this type of damage (one side only) before, "no, best talk to Goodyear, no point raising this with LR"
Discussed further with local after market LR serviceman, and 2 tyre dealers, all had never seen anything like it asking had I done a lot of km off bitumen. Responded no, and that in my 20 yr experience with 4wd's (L322 and D1) pitting and chipping was always far worse on rear than front tyres, and was consistent right across the full tread width. All agreed after further examination that it is not an alignment issue, but could offer nothing constructive.
Is it possible that in the setup of this vehicle there is something not right ??
All comments/ideas welcome,
Cheers, Peter

[BobD]

My new to me 2013 RR Vogue TDV6 has the same thing on the outside edges of both front tyres and nothing on the rears. It has done 42000km but I don't know whether it is on its second set of Goodyear Eagles or first, since I only bought it on Monday last week. I noticed the chipping on the tyres before I bought it and will get a new set of 275's soon. It was serviced by the Southern Perth dealer on Thursday and I thought they might have commented on the tyres being excessively worn but they made the comment that the tyres were all good, probably because they were just within legal limits.

Another guy on the Discovery Sport area of the forum had the same thing on his DS Goodyear tyres and was complaining that the tyres were not fit for purpose. My DS is so far OK at 22,000km, but there is some very slight chipping on the fronts if you look closely. Otherwise, they are hardly worn. The DS runs as a front wheel drive most of the time and is harder on the fronts than the rears, whereas the D4 and (and I would have thought RRV) are usually harder on rear tyres in my experience. My rears on the D4 are always chipping when towing off road but not the fronts.

Since my tyres are chipping on the outside and yours are chipping on the inside I assume there must be a slight error in the toe in adjustment on our cars, causing a bit of scrubbing of the front tyres. The Eagles don't seem to take kindly to scrubbing, even on normal bitumen roads.

Edit, I just had a look at my front tyres on full lock and there is chipping on the inside as well as the outside edges, so it can't be a wheel alignment problem.

[peter g]

Hi Bob, Thanks for your post, it looks like we are the only ones experiencing this, (on this forum anyway).
One other comment I have had is that it looks like the car has been driven hard, (it hasn't), however couldn't explain why the chipping is only one side. I must agree that the type of chipping, (more like slicing), could be consistent with harder acceleration, as chipping on gravel roads tends to take more regular pieces out of the tyre. The other theory is that we have been on some new bitumen which has some very sharp aggregate, still doesn't explain the one side only though. I will be watching the new tyres now fitted very closely to see what happens.
Cheers, Peter

[Towcar]

What is the date on the sidewall stamped as?

There should be a series of numbers XXXX Showing something like 5316 which would mean they are built in the 53rd week of 2016.

And which dealer do you go to?

Jeremy

[peter g]

Tyre date is 1515, so I guess April 15 manufacture ?
LR dealer was Gorell's.

[Towcar]

Ok, they may not be the originals?
Dealers changing wheels and tyres out for different reasons (good and bad reasons) may have been a bad batch,or may have been swapped onto your RR then used and become hard before you got the chance to use them if that makes sense?

Would probably go to a tyre shop not a dealer next..

Not much help sorry

Jeremy

[Graeme]

Being asymmetrical, a different compound may be used for the inside vs outside sections for their different functions. The outer may be harder for stability when cornering whilst the inside softer for maximum grip. From the GY AU web-site...
The Eagle F1 Asymmetric is designed to give you outstanding control of your car, without compromising on performance. It features revolutionary Active Cornergrip and Racing Compound Technology for impressive high speed cornering and grip.

[BobD]

Thanks Graeme.

Like the OP, you would think the car has been driven incredibly hard and the tyres are actually cut in multiple places like slicing off chunks with a knife. Nothing like chipped tyres from rocky roads. This is exactly like another poster said about his front Disco Sport tyres.

I don't know the full history of my car but it has been fastidiously looked after and hardly driven for its age, so I doubt that it has been hammered around much.

I might get some K02's next for touring but given the amount of road noise in the L405 I think they will be a bit noisy. At least I have 20 inch wheels so there is some choice of tyres. Given the massive brakes even on the base model TDV6 I think 18 inch wheels will out of the question, unfortunately.

[peter g]

Hi Guys, Graeme you could be on the right track with your comments. I discussed this with the dealer principle here urging him to take up with LR Aust. He did say that the compound in the original tyres was very soft to improve ride quality, and also they are having excessive wear problems with 20" tyres on Volvo and BMW as well as LR. I will be watching the 275/55/20 Pirelli ATR's very closely now to see what happens with them, after only 700Km on one of my regular trips, the ride seems a little rougher than the Goodyears, however I had pressure at 40 psi as advised by fitter, I think it will be better now at about 36/37psi.
Bob, regarding 18"on this car Gordon at GOE advised me a few months ago, that an 18"for this car and the sport was looking difficult although I believe he is still working on it.
Peter

[BobD]

I was thinking I would get the same Pirellis as you just bought, Peter, so I am interested in the differences you find between them and the Eagles.

[peter g]

I will report on the Pirellis after I have a few more K’s. Bob, I’m not sure how quickly you need to replace your tyres, however we will be travelling to SW WA (finishing up in Perth before heading home), in March /April 2018, so by then I should have a much better idea of how they perform. Peter

[Graeme]

Are the Pirelli ATR's voids between the outer blocks the same half depth as their 255/55R19 size? I'm pondering the GG AT3 in 275/55R20 due to their more open tread and reportedly being quiet but they appear from pictures to also only have half depth voids between their outer blocks.

[peter g]

Yes, while I haven't seen the 19's, on my 275/55/20's the depth between the outer blocks is about 1/2 the inner depth.
Peter

[Blade74]

How are the Pirelli ATRs going?

[Graeme]

Pirelli's replacement for the ATR, the All Terrain Plus with its full depth voids between blocks and designed to be more off-road capable, in 275/55R20 size is currently listed to be available in Oz in 4th qtr this year. Unless Pirelli release it in 255/60R19 in the unconfirmed reported release of 8 more sizes in the 3rd qtr, I'll be giving the AT+ in 275/55R20 a try.

[peter g]

My car has now done 32K, the last 12 on the Pirelli ATR 275/55/20's. Of this a maximum of 700Km on gravel road, mostly good surface, no "off road". The bad news is that the inner 300mm or so on both front tyres is starting to show chipping and cutting as I experienced with the original Goodyear's, nowhere near as bad as the originals showed after 20k, so maybe the performance is better but still disappointing. Newbies reading this should refer to my earlier notes as my comment is not to say the Pirellis are no good.
Only other comment on the Pirellis is that I certainly notice the extra cm of height when getting in and out of the car - access height is always used now ! Ride and noise are quite satisfactory for me, the biggest factor with noise is the road surface.
I'm still wondering if the chipping has anything to do with the setup of the car. Comments anyone ?

[SBD4]

My car has now done 32K, the last 12 on the Pirelli ATR 275/55/20's. Of this a maximum of 700Km on gravel road, mostly good surface, no "off road". The bad news is that the inner 300mm or so on both front tyres is starting to show chipping and cutting as I experienced with the original Goodyear's, nowhere near as bad as the originals showed after 20k, so maybe the performance is better but still disappointing. Newbies reading this should refer to my earlier notes as my comment is not to say the Pirellis are no good.
Only other comment on the Pirellis is that I certainly notice the extra cm of height when getting in and out of the car - access height is always used now ! Ride and noise are quite satisfactory for me, the biggest factor with noise is the road surface.
I'm still wondering if the chipping has anything to do with the setup of the car. Comments anyone ?

I have Pirelli Scorpion Verde 255/55r20 which are the tyres fitted at the factory. They have done a mix of tight windy roads (spirited at times), urban and highway/freeway (very small amounts of gravel). They are now at 92,000KM with about 1mm to the wear indicators - it's become a crazy mission to see how long they will last. There is zero indication of unusual wear. I keep the pressures at 38PSi all around as I was noticing a bit more wear on the outer edges of tyres by about 50K Km.

I would definitely get wheel alignment checked.

[peter g]

I had decided that I should take Sean's advice above, however due to the reluctance of a couple of tyre places I checked the matter with initially, and other time commitments I didnt get around to it this year. I went to a JLRA day at the Melb showgrounds last week and during the course of the day found a couple of LRA guys to talk to about my tyre problem, (see original post). Also the Pirellis have now done 16k and while not as bad as the Goodyears, are going to end up the same unless anything is done soon. After looking at my tyres they advised it is definitely an alignment problem and here is the interesting bit which may help others - Get it done by a LR dealer, not just any tyre place. Reason, the car must be set at (or in) "Tight Tolerance Mode" before carrying out the alignment. This is computer set and apparently includes yet another height setting, different from the ones mentioned in the handbook.
Looks like I'm off to MLR in the new year as they apparently have the up to date equipment and techs who know how to operate it.
Also guys, if you get a chance to go to a Jag drive day, drive the F type around the cones - a lot of fun. And, drive the I Pace, it's brilliant.
Seasons greetings to all,
Peter

[peter g]

I forgot to add in the post above that if this is all correct then my car obviously not correctly setup in the first place as the problem was there from the start !!
Peter

[Graeme]

TTM isn't another height, instead as the name implies, causes the height off-target tolerance to be much closer to the target height. It would cause too much work for the compressor to have it set for everyday driving but when accuracy is paramount as when having the alignment set, it is most appropriate.

TTM is set by a procedure on the current LRs & RRs, not requiring the use of a diagnostic tool.

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[simmo1]

Peter,

Adam at Hunter Cuthill has done a wheel alignment on my RRS, and the last service. He says that they have bought the correct land rover aligning system. He says that with this latest chassis/body setup that the only adjustments are for toe in. A bit surprised with that.

I have zero confidence with gorells BTW.

Cheers Alan

[Graeme]

What the wheel alignment place doesn't know is that the upper arms , left and right, are available in 3 different lengths, being standard, 5mm shorter and 5mm longer. The correct length should have been fitted at build time but can always be changed if warranted.

If LR do the alignment and find that shorter or longer upper arms would be better then at least there is a possibility that they will be changed at no cost to you.