Defender tdi and a baby

[MJA]

Hi all.

Thinking of getting myself a defender soon. And I’m after a 300tdi. At the moment I’ve got an 07 dual cab hilux. Which is comfortable, but boring. We did a lap of oz in a 94 troopy and love the character of older trucks.

However we have a 1 month old baby girl. How practical are these older defenders with younger children and babies. I know the air con is pretty useless, and worry about her cooking in the back on summer trips. We plan to use it for weekends away and extended touring trips. Am I just being precious? Or is it a legit concern? Any thoughts appreciated

[Tombie]

We raised 2 boys with a TD5 Defender. Not a problem they loved it..

You can always improve the AC [emoji6]

[weeds]

We toured with three kids and no air-con in a 300tdi....youngest at the time was 18 months

[Reads90]

Not a problem with a kids

This is my eldest at a few months and now him at 9 in the same car

They love the 110 and 90

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/615.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/616.jpg

The boys both love the 110 and have both grown up with the car as we got it when the eldest was 3 weeks old.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/617.jpg

[4wheeler]

I know I am going to crash and burn posting this and it is my opinion only and I await all the opinions to the contrary. I am unsure though if people are aware of how poor the safety is in a Defender.

I don't have children and the only reason I have a Defender (apart from the fact that I like them) is the fact I am prepared to take the risk driving the thing. If I had children of any age, I would not put them in a Defender. The only concession to safety is ABS in later models and a 300 TDI won't even have that.

If you have a major side impact or roll over it will be good luck which saves you and nothing else. I won't even take any of my brother's children in it. It is a bolt together car with no structural integrity. You are sitting physically against the door and B pillar. The chassis rail is 30cm inboard of the doors with no side intrusion beams and door locks which I could pop open with a screw driver.

As I said, my opinion only, but give me safety over boring when children are involved anytime.

[weeds]

I don't have children .

Love it when people without kids give advice on parenting.

[rar110]

It’s true compared to other 4WDs on the road, it’s best safety feature is power and speed limitations. Side impact - not much protection. Front impact - other car crushing.

[Reads90]

I had a Toyota T Bone my 110 when both my kids were in it and no damage to the car or kids. In fact the wife was happy she was in the 110.
The Toyota however was a right off.

[manic]

If you want safety dont put your kids in a car, full stop. Because a FULL STOP in any car will kill them.

Air bags and ancap ratings give a good sense of security but even if you go further and wear a four point harnesses, a neck brace and a helmet, there is a point where deceleration WILL kill! At 110kph that level of deceleration is easily achieved.

Be safe and dont drive.... or drive safe, and good luck!

[synthium]

Iv had my 300tdi 130 for about 5 years now. I have a 3yo and a 15month old. Upgradinginh the aircon was a must - we currently live in Alice Springs. Specially in the baby seats the kids get hot. They do like the noise and the height.

[martnH]

I think it pretty evident the defender is simply a tin can built on a rigid chassis
The chassis technology is out of date, it doesn't have crumple zone so it won't absorb energy.

But I don't really care. Driving the defender is more important

[martnH]

there is a reason why the NAS defenders have roll cages. The Americans are proactive in terms of car safety. They also mandate the use of the tyre pressure monitoring system.

But again, it doesn't matter if you don't think about them. Defender will be great for kids

[Shoogs]

Drove all over Southern and Eastern Africa with a 96 110 for 3 years and with a 3-5 year old, on some of the most horrendous roads and with interactions with equally horrendous drivers, bicycles, goats, donkeys, cattle, impala, elephant... always felt safe, the better visibility, the ability to take alternative routes and avoid problems puts the Defender up there, we had the advantage of a safety devices full roll cage which I think would help in both side impact and obviously roll over but have always thought “situational awareness” is your best defence, I always consider who are my passengers are and adjust the driving to suit... we have planned and will drive the vehicle up through the Americas in 2/3 years time without hesitation.

[Tombie]

there is a reason why the NAS defenders have roll cages. The Americans are proactive in terms of car safety. They also mandate the use of the tyre pressure monitoring system.

But again, it doesn't matter if you don't think about them. Defender will be great for kids

Proactive- no doors, seatbelts often optional.... [emoji41]

[4wheeler]

O.K. people, you have given me my wack as I suspected and I'll take it.

I won't get into arguments about having children or not as that is not really relevant but disappointing it was brought up.

[Tombie]

I find it amusing/disappointing to this day that a child’s life is held in higher regard than that of an adult.

[1nando]

I know I am going to crash and burn posting this and it is my opinion only and I await all the opinions to the contrary. I am unsure though if people are aware of how poor the safety is in a Defender.

I don't have children and the only reason I have a Defender (apart from the fact that I like them) is the fact I am prepared to take the risk driving the thing. If I had children of any age, I would not put them in a Defender. The only concession to safety is ABS in later models and a 300 TDI won't even have that.

If you have a major side impact or roll over it will be good luck which saves you and nothing else. I won't even take any of my brother's children in it. It is a bolt together car with no structural integrity. You are sitting physically against the door and B pillar. The chassis rail is 30cm inboard of the doors with no side intrusion beams and door locks which I could pop open with a screw driver.

As I said, my opinion only, but give me safety over boring when children are involved anytime.Check this link out and read number 2.

Arkonik Land Rover Ownership - Things To Know (http://www.arkonik.com/mobile/learn.aspx)

For the record im a professional driver and this is simply my opinion as to why the defender is a safe vehicle.

"IT CONSTANTLY NEEDS DRIVER INPUT!"
(In caps to emphasize not screaming)

You see there is no cruise control, no fancy seats with cooling/heating, noisy, vague steering etc. These flaws are actually attributes that contribute to driver awareness. I agree that they are unsafe and their construction leaves a lot to be desired however people that drive defenders tend to be better drivers. We're used to slow progressive moment and enjoy every minute of it.
Your statisically more likely to die in a 5 star safety rating family saloon than a defender.

Anyway i do agree they are not safe but you are very unlikely to be in a serious accident in a defender, your simply to aware of your surroundings.

Im 6foot, mrs 5,7 and we simply can't fit the baby capsule behind our seats without being extremely squashed and uncomfortable. Hence why im selling it, and the fact that im trying to cash in on the current market.

I would not run 2 rear baby seats in my puma, so i definitely wouldn't in a older model, my 2 cents

[4wheeler]

I find it amusing/disappointing to this day that a child’s life is held in higher regard than that of an adult.

This whole thing is now getting stupid now. Seriously!

[1nando]

This whole thing is now getting stupid now. Seriously!Sorry 4 wheeler, i was typing when you had stated everyone had proved their point..

[Tombie]

This whole thing is now getting stupid now. Seriously!

Really?

So any human life is worth less than another?

Nothing silly there....

[martnH]

This whole thing is now getting stupid now. Seriously!I feel sorry for you...
This forum was not like this, right?.....

[4wheeler]

O.K. I get it. I apologise without reservation! My post has caused offence and I apologise. It was not meant to but it has so I can't undo that. SO I will get the thing back on the rails again getting back to the original post with suggestions for him which I hope will help going forward.

The Defender with its upright sides and lots of windows does get a lot of sun through it. Window tint might help reduce heat and the opportunity for sunburn. I don't have tint in mine yet and it gets warm on your arms in summer.

I would fit a cargo barrier (as most would) so you can travel with a good amount of gear if required. While the Defender has a good deal of space in the rear, the smaller door can make packing difficult for some items including access to a fridge if not well thought out.

Obviously you will need to get certified child restraint points fitted unless this has already been done by someone who owned the vehicle previously.

Defenders can get a lot of dust in them so seal any dust entry points with non acidic sealant in case your children might react to dust problems. A torch at night under the vehicle should show up any points of entry.

They can be noisy and hot. Many use sound deadener to reduce sound entering the cabin and heat. Carpet can also help.

I am not sure if the 300 TDI has speakers in the back but if not they can be easily fitted to allow the children/adults to hear the radio/music etc.

The Defender has a great back seat which sits high so children and adults will be able to see well.

[vnx205]

One simple modification I made on my Series III had a couple of side effects that made it more comfortable.

I fitted a platform up near the roof, across the internal "gutters". It was used to store clothes, sleeping bags and other soft light things we needed to be able to get at quickly and easily.

It kept out a lot of heat, just like putting insulation in the ceiling of a house. It also made it quieter.

That probably can't be done on more modern LRs with all their unnecessary plastic trim.

[martnH]

Check this out.

Defender right after crash
Just like a tin can poped open

yagodamulla Defender accident 2015,09,10 10,35 AM - YouTube (https://youtu.be/eeUYnKxdaJs)

[BigBlackDog]

4wheeler do not be sorry for your opinion. You stated your position and reasons. I personally agree with your points 100%. What was offensive? Everyone has their lines. I personally get super upset when people speed through suburban streets and car parks, cause they might hurt a child.
Why shouldn't we want to protect the young and innocent in our lives? Adults have the choice to do wrong, choose danger, whatever. If you all take a deep breath and get over yourselves...
So I am big on safe. That said, I have a 300tdi 130 with a currently 6 and almost 3 year old boys. They love it. The little one screams if we take mums car. I am aware of the safety of them. From a side impact point of view I put rock sliders on. Yes, I know, they aren't Ancap rated or whatever, but it can't hurt. Like someone said,be alert, be aware of your surroundings. Don't drive around with your head shoved up your behind like a lot of people seem to doing that's going to do.you way more good in my opinion.
Breathe

[vnx205]

There is some evidence that we all have our personal level of "perceived risk" that we are prepared to accept.


What this means in practice is that there is a tendency to drive a little faster, leave smaller margins for error when we believe we are in a car with better handling, better brakes and better safety features.

Most drivers of vintage cars are well aware of the lack of safety features and drive in a way that creates only the level of risk that they are prepared to accept.

Some drivers of more modern cars think the inbuilt safety feature will save them from anything and drive like maniacs.

In both cases the driver feels that the risk is at a level he is prepared to accept. Of course it is the perceived level of risk that matters, not the actual risk.

So it should not come as a surprise that we all have our own notion of what is acceptable. Some people would never dream of riding a motorcycle, some would ride one anywhere except in city traffic. Some people would never dream of driving anything except the latest model with all the latest safety features. Some, especially as they get older just give up driving altogether.

There is no reason why anyone should be offended by someone else's personal level of perceived risk that they tolerate.

[shanegtr]

I know I am going to crash and burn posting this and it is my opinion only and I await all the opinions to the contrary. I am unsure though if people are aware of how poor the safety is in a Defender.

I don't have children and the only reason I have a Defender (apart from the fact that I like them) is the fact I am prepared to take the risk driving the thing. If I had children of any age, I would not put them in a Defender. The only concession to safety is ABS in later models and a 300 TDI won't even have that.

If you have a major side impact or roll over it will be good luck which saves you and nothing else. I won't even take any of my brother's children in it. It is a bolt together car with no structural integrity. You are sitting physically against the door and B pillar. The chassis rail is 30cm inboard of the doors with no side intrusion beams and door locks which I could pop open with a screw driver.

As I said, my opinion only, but give me safety over boring when children are involved anytime.
I agree with most of what you say there. One can accept a certain amount of risk for themselves, however when there are others to think of then the level of risk you are prepared to take changes - especially when the others are not able to make those choices for themselves (kids). After going through a high speed 4x4 rollover (with my whole familly of wife and 4 kids!) I will no longer accept a high centre of gravity car without either DCS or some form of rollover protection like rollbars (I really dont what to try and keep a car roof up with my head again). Just one of the reasons I choose to drive a D3

[cripesamighty]

This is the actual footage of the Defender accident that was posted earlier. It was crushed between two buses after a risky overtaking maneuver in the wet.

CCTV footage of Minuwangoda Defender crash - HD - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoZC7O49Cj8)

UPDATE: Minuwangoda PSD Jeep Accident CCTV Video released - Hiru News - Srilanka's Number One News Portal, Most visited website in Sri Lanka (http://www.hirunews.lk/116313/update-minuwangoda-psd-jeep-accident-cctv-video-released)

[Tombie]

Good discussion....

With the DSC mentioned - who here has tested it [emoji6] taken the vehicle out onto loose surface and pushed the vehicle until it starts to yaw?

You may be very surprised - it can make some situations better, but it can also spear you off the road without any chance of recovery..


With Ancap - please all consider the ratings don’t equate between vehicles sizes - that’s where Physics exceeds ratings!

Ancap also doesn’t cover (last I looked) - roll over (roof strength) or rear end collisions...

These 2 vehicles are both Ancap 4... they met at high speed...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/685.jpg

[Marty90]

Can't blame the car for that. It was never going to end well.

[Tombie]

Can't blame the car for that. It was never going to end well.

Image is a simple demonstration of Physics - both same rating - just no chance for the lighter unit..

[ATH]

I think the lack of safety equipment such as air bags lost me the sale of the 110. Nice couple, very enthusiastic to get out and about but with one youngster and another on the way, a Defender wasn't going to fit their needs.
I personally couldn't give a **** about most of these so called "driving aids" especially the one about rear crossing traffic!!!! WTF is that about? Who gives a flying fig about who's crossing behind you?
When I need all the garbage which is supposed to be about road safety, I'll give up driving. As far as I'm concerned all they do is take the drivers mind off what they should be doing.... looking out of the windscreen in front of them and constantly checking the mirrors to know what's happening around them.
AlanH.

[BigBlackDog]

Oh, I forgot to mention to the OP... The rattle and hum of a defender puts the little ones right to sleep.

Distraction these days is everywhere. All these new car ads saying they've got google apps or siri or whatever all that stuff is, that cannot be helping. I see them at night, massive bright TV screen in the dash, I would hate that. There is a lot to be said for the simple things

(typed on smart phone whilst on the dunny, sigh)

[martnH]

I have installed a roll cage and was shocked by how the truck was put together. The firewall has no diagonal bracing but two bolts on the our riggers, which are also the anchor points for my roll cage. The skin is made of thin aluminum. The chassis is narrow and we as the driver and passenger are laterally seating outside and our juicy meat bag protecting the defender (that's some true love.
The pillars are soft and some of us even cut the roof and replace it with a pop up roof tent.

we all love our defenders but I think we have been talking about two different things.
First topics is how safe is the defender as a vehicle. And the answer is very unsafe and dangerous in a car crash.the only way to do it is to raise the truck so that the defender can encroach the other vehicle's cabin. thats to get on top

The second one is can you drive the defender safely and yes of course you can. The fact that not many of us ever be in a high speed car crash may suggest we are the best and safest driver in the world?

whether you put your kids in the defender is none of my business. I couldn't care less. It is your job to make a concoius decision, balancing the perceived danger and the joy you get

[shanegtr]

Good discussion....

With the DSC mentioned - who here has tested it [emoji6] taken the vehicle out onto loose surface and pushed the vehicle until it starts to yaw?

You may be very surprised - it can make some situations better, but it can also spear you off the road without any chance of recovery..


With Ancap - please all consider the ratings don’t equate between vehicles sizes - that’s where Physics exceeds ratings!

Ancap also doesn’t cover (last I looked) - roll over (roof strength) or rear end collisions...

These 2 vehicles are both Ancap 4... they met at high speed...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/685.jpg
As my disco was the first vehicle I've owned with DCS I've taken it out and delibratly tested how it works with some agressive evassive manouvers. Im actually quite impressed with how agressivly it kicks in and with what I've done I havent found it want to spear me off the road - it merely straighens the car up, which you could take for spearing off the road if thats the direction that straigtening up a slide would take you. But the benifet is as its so agressive in its brake application I found it does actually wash of a reasonable amount of speed.
I know the US IIHS does a roof strength test, fairly sure both Euro NCAP and ANCAP dont. My biggest issue with ANCAP is the star rating system itself. A 5 star rated car from 10 years ago is not the same as a 5 star rated car today -they should have been adding additional stars above the current 5 to allow for newer tecnology. Plus cars can also earn points just for doing a test - side impact pole test for example, 2 points just for completing the test regardless of outcome. Your also correct Tombie that theres also big differences between differnt mass vehicles. I've found the most usefull part of the ratings to be the driver and passenger injury scores from the frontal offset crash - its what makes up the bulk of the points score anway.

[DiscoMick]

I think it's very clear that Defenders are not good vehicles to crash in. That's why they couldn't be made to meet the latest crash rules and LR has had to start from scratch on a new model.
Personally, I agree with the person who suggested a cargo barrier, as it could save our lives in a rollover. I will be installing one soon.
As for airbags, I remember the day my wife and I had the following conversation:
Wife: "So, how many airbags does this have?"
Me: "None"
Wife: "None. Oh..."
A long silence followed.

[martnH]

I can't believe we need to elaborate this

Check out the bolt that holds the seat belt on thn the B pillar. Have you noticed the height and location of it? (Also the height of belt is Not adjustable
I reckon in a car crash that bolt head will do quite a bit of damage.
Now it should be a common sense that the headrest and seat should be adjusted so that passenger's head is unlikely to hit the B pillar. But it is physically impossible to do so in a defender

Not to mention,with the after market seat rails fitted, the bolt is possible aiming right at your pterion. That's the area right behind temple and weakest point of our human skull. There is an artery right behind it

I don't know why there is no cushion on that bolt head.

I see the way land rover get away from it is to classify the defender as a light commercial vhicel instead of passenger vehicle. I think that is deceiving because not many of use are aware of this and often believe we drive a passenger vehicle just like that discovery 4

I am obviously ignorant about this but do we have a lower safety standard for comericla trucks?

Anyway before I bought the defender I have done my research. I am fully aware of the danger and willing to pay to price

Btw Land Rover stop the production of defender ,I think, is mainly due to crash safety concerns, rather than emmision rules.
Cheers

[Lemo]

Hi all.

Thinking of getting myself a defender soon. And I’m after a 300tdi. At the moment I’ve got an 07 dual cab hilux. Which is comfortable, but boring. We did a lap of oz in a 94 troopy and love the character of older trucks.

However we have a 1 month old baby girl. How practical are these older defenders with younger children and babies. I know the air con is pretty useless, and worry about her cooking in the back on summer trips. We plan to use it for weekends away and extended touring trips. Am I just being precious? Or is it a legit concern? Any thoughts appreciated

Just throwing it out there, have you considered a Discovery 2?? Will do what you've described re weekends and touring, but in style and comfort[emoji106]

[MJA]

Thanks everyone. Appreciate all points of view. I guess was asking more about comfort rather than safety. Heat and noise etc. Obviously the defender won’t be the safest vehicle in the world. Similar to the old cruisers I’ve owned. But I do drive more carefully in older trucks. More so than the hilux, which handles more like a car.

The d2 wouldn’t suit my needs. I’m after the space that the 110 has. As I’ll be using it for work as well (carpenter).


Iv had my 300tdi 130 for about 5 years now. I have a 3yo and a 15month old. Upgradinginh the aircon was a must - we currently live in Alice Springs. Specially in the baby seats the kids get hot. They do like the noise and the height.

Can I ask how you improved the air con?

[F3ARED]

Hi guys, long time lurker first time poster - this particular topic is pretty relevant to why Im here in the first place so I felt compelled to chip in with my 2cents. Its a bit disappointing to see the thread get derailed the way it did; I dont think anyone is under any illusions that ANY of the LR Series/County/Defender models are at the cutting edge of safety. Hopefully for everyone on here, with or without children, you never have the misfortune of having to find out how safe or unsafe the old bus is in an accident.

Back on topic, and if the original poster doesnt mind the slight diversion - i find myself in a similar situation. My first born is due at the end of the month and my wife has expressed the desire that once the thinning of the fleet is complete, we acquire an older 4WD to use for family trips to the beach, fishing etc with my parents, baby and the dog. The Series III/County fit the bill and are on that short list. My question relates to anchorage points for the upright baby seats - has anyone got any photos of theirs installed, particularly in the pre-Defender models? Just want to get my head around whats involved in actually setting up the seat correctly. Also, for the 2 door LWB Series III [109?] is there a foward facing rear seat config available? These seem to be a lot more common and fit the bill size wise [enough seating plus space for the rapidly growing dog] but I havent seen one with a normal rear seat installed.

Cheers

Nick

[scrambler]

Man alive (and alive is the key word!) this has got very aggressive over what presents to me (a long term SIII, County and Defender owner) as a very straightforward question.

And for the record, I'm a GP and as interested as anyone in keeping my family alive.

On the safety issue - this car has one of the best safety records imaginable in the UK, but not so good in Australia. The difference? they are slower on back roads over there. All this stuff about side intrusion etc - the things have a solid chassis with outriggers. The "safety" issue is that they are LESS flexible than a modern design. So don't hit anything at high speed. But with a 300TDI that's unlikely!

Now to the original Kid issues :-)

Seatbelts/seating: kids love the rear seats of the Defenders. They have good views even if the seats are slightly less than ideal. The TDI era seats are fine (improved over the Series/County seats) though the Puma seats are much better. I don't know re legroom - the mid row in the Defenders is less than you would think due to being able to seat 4 behind the "rear" seats. That said, I will fit in the rear seats behind a front seat set for me. I'm 5'10 or 178cm.

Aircon: While the AC is routine dissed, it's not that bad. The County AC on the other hand! The TDI era Defenders all have Australian made and installed "factory aftermarket" AC which if gassed and working will do the job. 40 degrees in Qld summer may defeat it - but engine cooling will get you then as well. I have a clear plastic sheet on the cargo barrier so I don't have to AC the load area. I don't know if it works :-). We recently had a trip through northern Qld and the NT. We did run the AC all the way dawn to dusk and things were never cold in the cab, but never hot either. I'm a little puzzled at the earlier SIII comment but then mine had a Tropical Roof - two roof layers with venting between, with controllable vents sucking air from the interior into the midzone space. This was the bees knees of non-AC venting, taking all the hot air out of the cab.

Heat gain through flat glass: don't make me laugh. The windows of the Defender are small and more vertical than most 4wds. They get less overall sun than most. The real heat gain is through the floor. And ALL glass has a SPF of around 50. There is no more risk of sunburn in a Defender than any other car.

Seatbelts: you will need a CRAB - a Child Restraint Accessory Bar. These come variously fitted - I installed mine across the back of the C pillars just above the rear wheel "arch". This means it attaches through steel (the car it came from the mount went through aluminium) and increases side intrusion resistance. For this reason I prefer the longer side-to-side versions - and they also have minimal intrusion into the cargo space unlike the floor mounted versions.

Side intrusion: As someone has mentioned, Rock Sliders will stiffen the side intrusion resistance. Anything above foot level is unnecessary as other vehicles don't come that high.

Rollover: Yep, Defenders are poor at this. So were all 4wds of the era, and all sedans until the 1990s. Manage this as you see fit. I personally think the chance of the issue is relatively low, but a rollcage or at the least a cargo barrier are good options. The plus side is that Defenders have little weight above the chassis level. They are less likely to roll than a stiff and strengthened modern 3 tonne 4wd. Just don't overload the roof.

The general idea is, as has been said, when driving you need to pay attention to your surroundings. You need to get familiar with the front and rear tracking, aim to anticipate what others are going to do (or not do) in a similar way to what a motorcyclist does. The regular incentive is that your brakes and motor are not that hot! The additional issue is that the passive safety is lower in a Defender than many vehicles - so keep your active safety at the highest level.

I've certainly put my money where my mouth is: A total of 3 Land Rover wagons (plus 2 utilities) through my 3 children's childhoods (still ongoing!) I did get rearended on the motorway once: no damage to the Defender, major damage to the little sportscar. I had 3 kids in the car then (2 not mine) and they all regard it as a "Tank" ever since.

[Reads90]

Just thought I would put up this pic whilst on this post [emoji3][emoji3][emoji3] https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/748.jpg

[scrambler]

Hi guys, long time lurker first time poster - this particular topic is pretty relevant to why Im here in the first place so I felt compelled to chip in with my 2cents. Its a bit disappointing to see the thread get derailed the way it did; I dont think anyone is under any illusions that ANY of the LR Series/County/Defender models are at the cutting edge of safety. Hopefully for everyone on here, with or without children, you never have the misfortune of having to find out how safe or unsafe the old bus is in an accident.

Back on topic, and if the original poster doesnt mind the slight diversion - i find myself in a similar situation. My first born is due at the end of the month and my wife has expressed the desire that once the thinning of the fleet is complete, we acquire an older 4WD to use for family trips to the beach, fishing etc with my parents, baby and the dog. The Series III/County fit the bill and are on that short list. My question relates to anchorage points for the upright baby seats - has anyone got any photos of theirs installed, particularly in the pre-Defender models? Just want to get my head around whats involved in actually setting up the seat correctly. Also, for the 2 door LWB Series III [109?] is there a foward facing rear seat config available? These seem to be a lot more common and fit the bill size wise [enough seating plus space for the rapidly growing dog] but I havent seen one with a normal rear seat installed.

Cheers

Nick

Rear seat/door edge
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/746.jpg (https://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/16318/title/imgp3800/cat/1007)
The CRAB attaches either to the uprights in the photograph (and sorry its lying down) or to the rear wheel arch. This photo is from my previous SIII.

2 door seating
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/747.jpg (https://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/4889/title/ross-in-action/cat/721)
Admittedly from the back of the seats but you can see they all look in and are at the same level.

For forward facing seats you really want a wagon body. I have seen forward facing seats in the back of a utility body - but its awkward to get in and out as well as awkward and limited with the seating.

My current setup includes CRAB, cargo barrier and spare wheels in the rear on the arches - so photo angles that show the CRAB attachment are few. I'll try to post something.

[scrambler]

Sorry for the mental headspinning in the photos. You will need to compare and contrast versus the first photo above - but adjust for the fact that this is the opposite door and rotated 180 degrees (or therabouts) compared to the other photo. Again - I'm sorry.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/752.jpg (https://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/27618/title/crab-anchorage/cat/1008)

The car is red, the CRAB is cream. This compares to the (cream/green) rearmost (or lower in the photo) upright in the first photo. The CRAB bolts onto the rear of the upright. It has a swiveling mount, and the bar attaches to the mount and runs across the back of the car.

Not visible on the photo are the movable plates that wrap around the bar and provide attachment for the child seat.

The same setup works in all Series to Defender wagons with this CRAB. What it amounts to, once you have it in place, are child safety mounts that can be aligned with any or all of the three seats.

I always used the centre seat. I have 2 mounts at that point because it had a seatbeltless booster seat and a H child restraint mounted - try doing THAT with your lesser cars ;-)

Why the centre - its inside the chassis (see all the concerns above!) and you have a little more room for child restraints to project above the front cubby, as well as the capacity to turn around and care for your child from the front passenger seat.

EDIT:
Additional re dogs and vehicle size: the wagon is your best bet, and the ute and wagon bodies are the same size just different interior setups. The unexpected (to most) issue with the utes is that while you can fit the side-facing seats, there is ONLY the rear entry. There is a wall at the front of the ute tray (as you would expect!) whether you fit a ute roof, or full length roof (or canvas per the Army).

And yes, before anyone asks, it's a long reach in to the centre to get your baby in and out. But there are a variety of options and you can stand/hunch inside the car to get the belts on which beats trying to work out how you are going to do it from outside the car if the baby capsule is on the side.

[F3ARED]

Steve, thanks heaps mate thats awesome! Wasnt aware of the firewall behind the rear seats on the 2 door bodies so sadly i think that rules them out. Whilst the sideways facing seats may work with kids old enough to not be in boosters and able to climb their way in, I dont think it will be too suitable for what we will have to face for the foreseeable future. The doggo will grow to be a decently big unit [shes a German Short-haired Pointer] so some space for her is pretty crucial.

Now, to sell some cars off and find a wagon....

Thanks again steve.

N-

[tact]

[...]
I've certainly put my money where my mouth is: A total of 3 Land Rover wagons (plus 2 utilities) through my 3 children's childhoods (still ongoing!) I did get rearended on the motorway once: no damage to the Defender, major damage to the little sportscar. I had 3 kids in the car then (2 not mine) and they all regard it as a "Tank" ever since.

Heh... I was rear ended once (Honda Accord > TDCi DCPU). If you look really hard you can almost make out the spot where he didn't even leave a scratch.

(In fairness - I modified the factory towing kit to substantially raise the bottom edge of the standard "plough blade" and mounted a huge ex-mil nato hitch to the rear crossmember with a load spreader plate behind to reinforce somewhat. The Accord's nose went under the crossmember while he was hard on the brakes)
132529

[DiscoMick]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/766.jpg
Sorry it's not clear, but this is the only handy photo on my phone.
See the strap running from the fridge down to the top of the drawers next to the white water bottle - that goes into a ring fitted into the top of the drawers.
So including a tie down in a set of drawers is another option.

[sidedraught]

Whilst many of the safety concerns raised here are valid and slightly scary, I am happy to take my three kids touring in our 300TDI 130 every school holidays and have never ever felt unsafe.
The Defender is SLOW (generally speaking), its noisy and not especially comfortable, there is no autopilot to lull you into a false sense of security, your driving a glorified tractor and you know it.
Cant speak for aircon as we dont have it (no one has died yet) The kids really like the vehicle, Land Rovers are special and I think kids get that.
if you are wanting to buy a TDI, you no doubt know what you are in for and will drive accordingly.
As for the defender in the bus crash, I think that was just a lesson in how not to drive a Land Rover, or any vehicle.