Penrite Coolant

[Mark130]

Hello All,

I've been meaning to flush and replace the coolant in my 2002 TD5 for quite a while but things keep getting in the way. I have no records of it ever being done so it could be 15 years old.
I spoke to my local mechanic (who I trust) about doing it for me. He said they'd flush and pressure clean and would guarantee they'd be no cross contamination if he used the green penrite coolant they usually use.

I've checked the old threads, and couldn't find anything recent. I didn't even know penrite made a red OAT coolant.
There doesn't seen to be a lot of difference between the red and green apart from a couple of inhibitors

But I'd prefer to be cautious and retain the red OAT .
I just thought I'd put it out there in hope someone can explain in simple terms what is the problem with the green?

Again, I'm basing this question on the fact that all original coolant will be 100% removed and there can be no cross contamination.


132895

Cheers
Mark

[LouNat58]

F

[Toxic_Avenger]

The dialogue is amazing.

For my vehicle, I was going to go by the bible (the service manual) which for a PUMA, recommends:




Item
Specification


Anti-freeze
WAS-M97B44-D


Anti-freeze concentration - Will provide frost protection to -40°C (-40°F)
50%


Specific gravity of coolant at 20°C (68°F), to protect against frost down to -40°C (-40°F)
1.068

[pop058]

F

English Man, English.

[LouNat58]

English Man, English.Hi, just saying I am following this post with interest :-)

[travelrover]

Hi, just saying I am following this post with interest :-)

Me too :-)

[AK83]

.....

But I'd prefer to be cautious and retain the red OAT .
I just thought I'd put it out there in hope someone can explain in simple terms what is the problem with the green?
....

Can't help with the explanation of the issue with the green coolant, but if you use the product selector on the Penrite website they recommend the blue coolant.

Penrite TD5 recommendations (http://www.datateck.com.au/Lube/PenriteAus/)
(Link didn't go directly to the page I hoped, but choose commercial -light medium 4WD .. is where the Landrover entries are .. not car type 4WDs!!)


The only difference(if it makes a difference that is) that I can see from the product pages is that the red OAT coolant is
"Phosphate, Amine, Borate and Nitrite free" and the blue coolant is
"Silicate, Phosphate, Amine, Borate and Nitrite free"
The difference is the lack of silicate in the blue one, that they recommend for the TD5.
Have no idea if the Silicate in the red one do any damage to the Td5, and why they wouldn't do so in the Tdi, as the 8 yr red OAT is the recommendation for the 300 Tdi.

Green coolant seems to contain Silcates, and Borates by comparison.

Hopefully someone with chemical knowledge of those compounds and their effect on TD5's can come along and help with that .. otherwise I'd just go with their (blue) recommendation.

[Bytemrk]

Hi, just saying I am following this post with interest :-)

LouNat58, There is a system within the forum for that..[thumbsupbig]


If you look at the top of the thread, there is a menu item "Thread tools" if you select subscribe to thread, you get a couple of different options as to how you want to be notified.


A post that simply says "F".... is just as likely to get deleted as a pointless post by a mod or admin tidying up [wink11].

[LRpete]

I'm also interested in this thread and the question about green coolant. Are the different inhibitor chemicals less "good" in some way or just different.

It seems Penrite recommends their Blue product for the Disco 1 V8. An OAT with no silicates.

I assume the Landrover Red OAT coolant has no silicates then ?

[rick130]

Very basic description.
Older type silicate/nitrate/borate based glycol coolant coat the internal surfaces to give corrosion protection, newer style OATs and HOATs don't coat but react to the starting process of corrosion and neutralise it.

OAT and HOAT glycol coolant have a much longer life than silicate inhibitor coolant.

OAT and HOAT coolant also provide better heat transfer, somewhere between older style coolant and straight water partly due to the lack of coating, and partly due to reducing the surface tension of the water because of their inhibitor package.

OATs in particular will tend to weep more readily than older style coolant, probably due to that reduced surface tension.

Edit. Land Rover. OAT is straight Caltex/Texaco ELC coolant, as used in countless GM engines too, nothing fancy or unique.
Early versions of Texaco ELC used a certain chemical that unfortunately softened silicon, so if silicon based gaskets or O rings are used anywhere coolant was present they would soften and eventually fail giving the coolant a less than stellar reputation.
Most OATs don't use that chemical anymore.

[travelrover]

Sooooo Blue OAT is good? I checked the Penrite app for my vehicles (Tdi 300, Td5 and a 2.2 Puma) and it recommends Blue for all. I looked up some earlier engines just to ensure this was the not only recommendation and was relieved to see that Red was listed here for some models.

[LRpete]

Thanks guys for the great explanations on coolant. I checked my coolant on the D1 V8 and its green. I had Landrover flush and renew the coolant in 2013. The receipt says Texaco ELC $70 but that's not green so I don't know what's in there. The dealer isn't there any more so cant ask them.

I've never worried too much about coolant but think it's now time to flush the system and renew with a known coolant.

[rick130]

FWIW my Tdi Deefer was one of the very last ones and it came with OAT (and PAS 14315 in the power steering) like TD5.

I ran OAT for years and the internals always looked spotless.
I then swapped to Cummins PG Platinum, a HOAT, purely as I could get it more easily at a good price.

I still have 20 litres and am tossing up whether to run it in the TD5


Oh, and most importantly, colour means nothing!!!!!
It's just s bloody dye!!!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Green is fine for V8's,, similar metals heads/block.
You'll be FOREVER chasing leaks with read oat (which I'm fairly sure LR used/prescribed so as to only need ONE coolant for all D2's and the majority built were TD5's)

[Mark130]

Thanks for the input everyone.

I'm still not too sure of my best way forward though.
So staying with penrite brand (and using their colours for ease of ID)

Penrite website recommends blue OAT for all defender diesels

and AK83 found that

The only difference(if it makes a difference that is) that I can see from the product pages is that the red OAT coolant is
"Phosphate, Amine, Borate and Nitrite free"


and the blue coolant is
"Silicate, Phosphate, Amine, Borate and Nitrite free"


The difference is the lack of silicate in the blue one, that they recommend for the TD5.
Have no idea if the Silicate in the red one do any damage to the Td5, and why they wouldn't do so in the Tdi, as the 8 yr red OAT is the recommendation for the 300 Tdi.

Green coolant seems to contain Silcates, and Borates by comparison.


So have I got this right?
Penrite Green HOAT will coat the motor
but Penrite Blue and Red OAT (especially blue) will not coat motor, as Rick outlines

So Red and Blue might do a slightly better cooling job but will weep or leak

Comparing this to the Landrover OAT that I'm using now. Did the Landrover coolant contain the additives and coat the motor?
and which of the three Penrite OAT/HOAT options is the original LR OAT closer to?

I've been looking for info on the Caltex ELC coolant but haven't been able to find anything yet.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Edit. Land Rover. OAT is straight Caltex/Texaco ELC coolant, as used in countless GM engines too, nothing fancy or unique.
Early versions of Texaco ELC used a certain chemical that unfortunately softened silicon, so if silicon based gaskets or O rings are used anywhere coolant was present they would soften and eventually fail giving the coolant a less than stellar reputation.
Most OATs don't use that chemical anymore.


Hmmm..
I'll do anything for cooling
but I wont do that..

once bitten 4 million times shy Rick,,[bigrolf]