Won’t be retro...

[Shoogs]

New Land Rover Defender won't be a retro re-make (https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/new-land-rover-defender-won-t-be-a-retro-re-make-116528.html?ffref=smh)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Hmmm

http://www.off-road.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Land-Rover-Discovery-Spy-2.jpg
skinny people only in the second row--- :)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/37.jpg

[Naks]

Hmmm

http://www.off-road.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Land-Rover-Discovery-Spy-2.jpg
skinny people only in the second row--- :)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/37.jpg
That's the mule for a 90?

[timax]

Underneath the RRS body is supposed to be a Defender.
15MPH on sealed road might be where most are driven but i hope they also overload one and tow a van across the Canning in the middle of summer several times.

[Signal1]

Underneath the RRS body is supposed to be a Defender.
15MPH on sealed road might be where most are driven but i hope they also overload one and tow a van across the Canning in the middle of summer several times.

...and of course you’ll happily volunteer to assist with that testing. :)

[loanrangie]

That's the mule for a 90?
That's what I thought when I saw it, rear door is minus a few inches.
Too short for a 110 mule.

[Naks]

There are also photos of the 110/5-door floating around

[Naks]

Electric Land Rover Defender Spy shots | FunRover - Land Rover blog & magazine (http://funrover.com/news/electric-land-rover-defender-spy-shots/)

See the last section about the possibility of an electric version

[Michael2]

I noticed IRS with coils on the back of the mule. One would have thought airbags would allow for better offroad height and better load management. If indeed it is a Defender mule and not a decoy.

If the release is to coincide with the 70th Anniversary, then does anyone know the dates of the Paris Motor Show? Don't worry, I just asked google, early Oct 2018.

[JDNSW]

I noticed IRS with coils on the back of the mule. One would have thought airbags would allow for better offroad height and better load management. If indeed it is a Defender mule and not a decoy.

If the release is to coincide with the 70th Anniversary, then does anyone know the dates of the Paris Motor Show? Don't worry, I just asked google, early Oct 2018.

Wouldn't the 70th Anniversary be 30th April 2018, 70 years after the Landrover was released at the Amsterdam Motor Show?

[p38arover]

LR are supposedly looking at a new 2-door Rangie.

[Michael2]

Wouldn't the 70th Anniversary be 30th April 2018, 70 years after the Landrover was released at the Amsterdam Motor Show?

Good point, my mistake, - even better if it's April.

[DrytheRain]

Did anyone see the pictures from the Land Rover presentation at the LA Motor Show? The ‘three pillars’ of the brand were discussed with accompanying graphics:

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/la-motor-show-range-rover-plotting-luxury-coupe-110043)

Ignore the description on the hyperlink.

Anyway, the Defender graphic gives me hope that it will be a pretty good looking car, although I suspect it will have a Range Rover-y nose on it. That said, looks alone won’t be enough if it’s just a cut-down RR Sport underneath.

[grey_ghost]

I was speaking to a Tata dealer principal yesterday. He said that he had been flown out to India to preview a new Tata ute - based off a Discovery Sport.. “It looked like a Disco at the front, with the arse chopped off for the ute”......

[loanrangie]

I was speaking to a Tata dealer principal yesterday. He said that he had been flown out to India to preview a new Tata ute - based off a Discovery Sport.. “It looked like a Disco at the front, with the arse chopped off for the ute”......

DS is monocoque so they may use a TATA ute chassis under it, it would be ugly i think.
A D4 cab would make a much nicer vehicle.

[rar110]

India seems to love ugly cars. They should make a motza.

[Naks]

Autocar has done some mockups based on the mule: Land Rover Defender to be reinvented for 2019 | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/land-rover-defender-be-reinvented-2019)

[SeanMurr123]

I've been told it has round headlights. I trust my source.

[manic]

“We have to stop thinking about function in a durable way,” McGovern told Autocar at the Frankfurt show. “When you’re buying into the brand, you’re buying a premium product.”

That McGovern is a right nob end....

[DrytheRain]

Gerry McGovern certainly seems to have a single-minded focus on selling crossovers and light-duty four wheel drives, loaded with bling and gadgetry, to the wealthier individuals in society. He’ll happily trade on the Series/Defender heritage, but not come up with a fitting replacement.

It actually amazes me that LR has sat on its hands for years, instead of just getting on with the job of designing a replacement for THE Land Rover. I’d love to hear the thought processes involved.

I mean, Defenders already sold to people who didn’t need one based on their image. The Benz G Wagen also sold on its image, despite being fairly agricultural, though Benz realised this sooner and offered more powerful, luxurious versions. What I’m saying is that the Defender replacement didn’t need to be super-high tech and have some sort of modern monocoque aluminium construction. If it were a sufficiently modern body-on-frame wagon or ute with rugged styling, decent engines, the option of luxurious trim and an auto for those who are so inclined, it would be an instant success. The image was already there to sell to non-traditional buyers.

The other aspect that I can’t figure out is that when you’re going to re-enter the US market with your new model, why would you take another Disco/RR variant soft-roader and try to sell it as a Defender - a formerly desirable forbidden fruit? The response is likely to be “meh”. Americans love rugged trucks and pickups, so if you were to deliver a proper BOF truck you should be onto a winner. If you can offer a genuinely capable Jeep Wrangler alternative, then even better (incidentally, the new Wrangler shows how this should be getting done). Gerry McGovern loves to talk about sales figures, well there’s a lot of new sales right there.

If they could sort out their dealer network, they could probably shift a fair few more out here in Australia too. If the new Defender were an actual LandCruiser or Patrol alternative, they could sell to farmers and maybe mining companies and it wasn’t even that long ago that Telstra, power companies, fire authorities and police forces in Australia were running Defenders.

Sadly, it sounds like it’s all too late.

[Zeros]

Has McGovern ever left his Park Lane pad and come to Australia?, Africa? The real market for Defender? Or has he just been driving Route 66? in his dreams.

[loanrangie]

Gerry McGovern certainly seems to have a single-minded focus on selling crossovers and light-duty four wheel drives, loaded with bling and gadgetry, to the wealthier individuals in society. He’ll happily trade on the Series/Defender heritage, but not come up with a fitting replacement.

It actually amazes me that LR has sat on its hands for years, instead of just getting on with the job of designing a replacement for THE Land Rover. I’d love to hear the thought processes involved.

I mean, Defenders already sold to people who didn’t need one based on their image. The Benz G Wagen also sold on its image, despite being fairly agricultural, though Benz realised this sooner and offered more powerful, luxurious versions. What I’m saying is that the Defender replacement didn’t need to be super-high tech and have some sort of modern monocoque aluminium construction. If it were a sufficiently modern body-on-frame wagon or ute with rugged styling, decent engines, the option of luxurious trim and an auto for those who are so inclined, it would be an instant success. The image was already there to sell to non-traditional buyers.

The other aspect that I can’t figure out is that when you’re going to re-enter the US market with your new model, why would you take another Disco/RR variant soft-roader and try to sell it as a Defender - a formerly desirable forbidden fruit? The response is likely to be “meh”. Americans love rugged trucks and pickups, so if you were to deliver a proper BOF truck you should be onto a winner. If you can offer a genuinely capable Jeep Wrangler alternative, then even better (incidentally, the new Wrangler shows how this should be getting done). Gerry McGovern loves to talk about sales figures, well there’s a lot of new sales right there.

If they could sort out their dealer network, they could probably shift a fair few more out here in Australia too. If the new Defender were an actual LandCruiser or Patrol alternative, they could sell to farmers and maybe mining companies and it wasn’t even that long ago that Telstra, power companies, fire authorities and police forces in Australia were running Defenders.

Sadly, it sounds like it’s all too late.
The problem has always been that lr were cash strapped for so long that they couldn't afford decent development so design effectively stalled.
Anyone that expected anything less than a leading edge design is living under a rock.

[DrytheRain]

You mean leading edge design in terms of how it looks? I think I can handle it being quite modern in appearance, if it has the right Defender design cues and looks tough. The graphic from the LA motorshow presentation gives me hope. I just can’t fathom why they’re using their aluminium monocoque platform, other than to amortise cost. It doesn’t differentiate the new Defender in any meaningful way from everything else in their range. They can say what they want about the Discovery and Range Rover lines being different, but at this point everything’s starting to blur into one.

I understand that designing a new platform is extremely expensive, even something as relatively low-tech as a ladder frame, but you’d think LR themselves, or even parent Tata would pull out the stops when replacing one of the most iconic vehicles ever made.

I’m just disappointed that after all the rumours about needing a properly utilitarian dual cab in the range, steel sub frames with live axles, etc. it’s just going to be another flavour of the same thing. If it’s a cut-down RR Sport in khakis, what’s the point?

[JDNSW]

Perhaps worth reminding everyone that in the early 1980s many, if not most, existing and potential potential Landrover buyers were absolutely certain that coil springs were totally unsuited to utility vehicles, and Leyland had written the end of Landrover by using Rangerover technology on the Landrover!

[Zeros]

It can be a leading edge design, as well as super robust and hose-out. If it's not, it will be just another luxurious Disco/Rangey clone.

[rar110]

Perhaps worth reminding everyone that in the early 1980s many, if not most, existing and potential potential Landrover buyers were absolutely certain that coil springs were totally unsuited to utility vehicles, and Leyland had written the end of Landrover by using Rangerover technology on the Landrover!

100% agree John.

I have told this a few times, about a conversation with Mal Storey, who is a bit of an authority and reckoned the drive train on any Range Rover or 110 after the LT95, and certainly post Salisbury or proper drive flanges was rubbish and not worth a pinch.

[Tins]

100% agree John.

I have told this a few times, about a conversation with Mal Storey, who is a bit of an authority and reckoned the drive train on any Range Rover or 110 after the LT95, and certainly post Salisbury or proper drive flanges was rubbish and not worth a pinch.

While I agree with both your post and John's, it is also worth remembering that the various versions of what became known as the Defender have NEVER crossed over into either the Discovery or Range Rover worlds. I think the fears being expressed in the various threads regarding the new Defender is that that will no longer be the case, and the Defender will no longer be the Heart and Soul. I hope we are wrong.

[ramblingboy42]

You have got to be kidding.....the heart of Land Rover, since it's conception, has been without any doubt, the Discovery.

The soul of Land Rover since its conception , has been Range Rover.

[Zeros]

You have got to be kidding.....the heart of Land Rover, since it's conception, has been without any doubt, the Discovery.

The soul of Land Rover since its conception , has been Range Rover.

Ha! ...I always wondered why the icon was such a piece of junk. :eek2::Rolling:

[Tins]

You have got to be kidding.....the heart of Land Rover, since it's conception, has been without any doubt, the Discovery.

The soul of Land Rover since its conception , has been Range Rover.

So, 68 years of Land Rovers, from the first of what became known as the "Series", up tp the last Defender, don't count?

[Zeros]

So, 68 years of Land Rovers, from the first of what became known as the "Series", up tp the last Defender, don't count?

Assuming Ramblingboy means, since the conception of Discovery and Range Rover, not since the conception of Land Rover - it could be argued that Discovery and Range Rover have had more attention and significantly more R&D money spent over the years, some of which benefitted Defender; but that this is why LR finds itself with no new model Defender for many years.

As to heart and soul, it's pretty clear that unless the next Defender is the real deal, LR may have lost it. The cavalcade of current LR model clones doesn't feel like the beating heart and soul to me.

[ramblingboy42]

Good on ya zeros, the punctuation marks were deliberately placed that way, to give the post it's meaning, which at least, you understood.

[Tins]

Assuming Ramblingboy means, since the conception of Discovery and Range Rover, not since the conception of Land Rover - it could be argued that Discovery and Range Rover have had more attention and significantly more R&D money spent over the years, some of which benefitted Defender; but that this is why LR finds itself with no new model Defender for many years.



Maybe, and maybe not, but since this is a thread about Defenders it was a little obtuse, punctuation or no punctuation.

[scarry]

Assuming Ramblingboy means, since the conception of Discovery and Range Rover, not since the conception of Land Rover - it could be argued that Discovery and Range Rover have had more attention and significantly more R&D money spent over the years, some of which benefitted Defender; but that this is why LR finds itself with no new model Defender for many years.

As to heart and soul, it's pretty clear that unless the next Defender is the real deal, LR may have lost it. The cavalcade of current LR model clones doesn't feel like the beating heart and soul to me.


I really don't think LR give a rats about heart and soul,heritage,or any of that stuff any more.

As us older guys move on,the new gen won't really care,they just want what LR are producing today.

That is highly complicated and luxury around town vehicles,and there are more of these types of models coming.

In fact, if you think about it,an LC 70 series plain jane vehicle probably has more heritage(for Toyota) than anything(with heritage) that comes out of LR today.

Heritage,heart and soul doesn't sell vehicles,LR have changed to suit the market.

What we all know as the Defender is long gone,the new model will be similar to LR's current crop of vehicles.

[rar110]

In reality JLR is primary into making money, including by selling a “new” product called a Defender to people who probably won’t buy a product from the two other existing pillars (RR/Disco), and who never bought a Defender in the past even if they really wanted one.

It’s this last category which could be their biggest customer, ie the Jeep Rangler customer.

I’ve met more than a few who “would like a Defender” but don’t/can’t, because of spouse reality check/safety concerns/daily driver capability (it doesn’t drive like a normal car).

I doubt JLR will tackle the dual cab tradie market straight up. I think they will establish the product first.

Given the risk of low volume, I think they will use existing platforms to the maximum.

In the past there has been 3 or 4 very different product groups with very different manufacturing methods. In the future there will be one manufacture method with 3 product variations.

Just my opinion.

[Zeros]

"Won't be retro" ...famous last words. McGovern misunderstands the meaning of retro. Retro is imitation. No self-respecting Defender devotee wants retro.

[blackrangie]

Most promising render I have seen yet, autocar I believe.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/187.jpg

[rick130]

Most promising render I have seen yet, autocar I believe.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/187.jpgIsn't that the DC100 from a couple of years ago that McGovern has since said it won't be anything like?

[ramblingboy42]

boring, boring bloody boring.

[blackrangie]

Isn't that the DC100 from a couple of years ago that McGovern has since said it won't be anything like?No

[blackrangie]

boring, boring bloody boring.Its actually pretty good looking, anyone thinking it will look like the current defender will be disapointed.

[blackrangie]

Isn't that the DC100 from a couple of years ago that McGovern has since said it won't be anything like?This is just a rendering from Autocar, not fact, just an educated guess based on the mule spy shots and announcements i believe, imo this is the first good looking anything i have seen to do with the new defender.

Remember the new defenders looks will be polarizing, but will no doubt be gpod looking to apeal to the mases.

[SBD4]

it's from this article:

Land Rover Defender to be reinvented for 2019 | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/land-rover-defender-be-reinvented-2019)

[ramblingboy42]

Its actually pretty good looking, anyone thinking it will look like the current defender will be disapointed.

the reason I wrote boring , boring is because I'm really sick of seeing these impressions by" so and so", a respected auto journalist , who really know nothing .....nothing.....no more than me....about the new Defender.

Land Rover have released nothing...need I say it again...nothing.

No one...no one has any idea what the new Defender will look like.....just wild guesses from magazine journos.

When Land Rover are ready to release information we will all know at the same time. No one will have scoops or special priviledges.

wait...stop trying to pre-empt Land Rover.

[blackrangie]

the reason I wrote boring , boring is because I'm really sick of seeing these impressions by" so and so", a respected auto journalist , who really know nothing .....nothing.....no more than me....about the new Defender.

Land Rover have released nothing...need I say it again...nothing.

No one...no one has any idea what the new Defender will look like.....just wild guesses from magazine journos.

When Land Rover are ready to release information we will all know at the same time. No one will have scoops or special priviledges.

wait...stop trying to pre-empt Land Rover.I stand by my previous comment, there has been a fair bit written about what the new defender will and wont, what it will have and wont have, what it will look like and wont, all on the record from LR..Autocar are very, very well connected imo..they have visited the slovakia plant and are no doubt in constant contact with LR and thier sources, if anyone is going to get guess the looks it will be them, i think they did pretty well with the Disco SVX from memory.

We have a mule and plenty on record from LR, far from nothing.

[ramblingboy42]

I have seen nothing officially from Land Rover, neither have you , nor anyone else.

[Classic88]

I have seen nothing officially from Land Rover, neither have you , nor anyone else.

That's not quite how it works. I'm speaking from the point of view of a former car journalist who now works with car firms (including JLR) on the PR and marketing side of things. No, they don't want to get scooped and they don't want to spoil any big reveal but they do want to maintain interest/build the hype. The Autocar article may be pure speculation but in all likelihood was based on a limited release of information to a journalist with whom JLR has a good relationship or who came by information another way (e.g. spy shots etc) and who has agreed not to publish in return for a bit of inside info. (This second scenario is less likely but happened twice to me).

[blackrangie]

I have seen nothing officially from Land Rover, neither have you , nor anyone else.Seen lots officially from Land Rover, Google New Defender and look for quotes from Land Rover Execs, there are heaps

[ramblingboy42]

One would think with all this google knowledge it would appear on Aulro pages , but I haven't seen an "official" release from Land Rover yet.

[blackrangie]

One would think with all this google knowledge it would appear on Aulro pages , but I haven't seen an "official" release from Land Rover yet.Official statements have been discussed many on here and there are plenty to be found on Google. Execs have been drip feeding info for ages, brilliant marketing

[blackrangie]

Heres one..of the many

Land Rover design chief dangles more clues on next Defender (http://www.autonews.com/article/20171017/BLOG06/171019692/land-rover-design-chief-dangles-more-clues-on-next-defender)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/374.jpg

[blackrangie]

2019 Defender 90 Mule snow testing

Access Denied (https://www.motoring.com.au/spy-pics-new-land-rover-defender-110502/)

[blackrangie]

Small discs, big alloys, all terrain tyres

[blackrangie]

Where did this come from ???

From JLR

Land Rover Defender Works V8 revealed (http://www.caradvice.com.au/614927/land-rover-defender-works-v8-revealed/)

Who is personally importing one!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180117/92ff7f6510aae11e2565a7fe0b40c0cc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180117/e64fd3b599debb7b4e45da53847052a8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180117/3b7a28043e6731474b669cfabf60ea6d.jpg

[bob10]

With the release of the new G wagon, I guess L. R. have to say something.

New Land Rover Defender DC100 concept revealed | News | Auto Express (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/defender/19933/all-new-2018-land-rover-defender-price-specs-release-date-pictures)

[bob10]

New Defender to be the centrepiece of the 70 th anniversary celebrations this year.

New Land Rover Defender edges closer to production as cold weather testing commences | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-land-rover-defender-edges-closer-production-cold-weather-testing-commences)

[Pickles2]

G'Day Bob, the just released Defender I would like, is the 70th Anniversary V8, produced by LandRover SVO,....only 150,000,...POUNDS!!!..a little bit above me!.....400HP V8, 8 speed auto etc.
Pickles.

[blackrangie]

G'Day Bob, the just released Defender I would like, is the 70th Anniversary V8, produced by LandRover SVO,....only 150,000,...POUNDS!!!..a little bit above me!.....400HP V8, 8 speed auto etc.
Pickles.Old defender, made into a beast!

New defender later this year

[Zeros]

Mercedes aren't all angsty about what to do with the next G Wagen. They've just launched the 2019 model - 100% redesigned ...guess what! It still looks exactly like a G Wagen only better.

If Mercedes can do that, there's no reason why Land Rover can't do it with Defender.

[Zeros]

2019 Mercedes-Benz G-Class revealed (http://www.caradvice.com.au/612343/2019-mercedes-benz-g-class-revealed/)

[blackrangie]

2019 Mercedes-Benz G-Class revealed (http://www.caradvice.com.au/612343/2019-mercedes-benz-g-class-revealed/)Good specs, but just such an ugly car!

[blackrangie]

2019 Mercedes-Benz G-Class revealed (http://www.caradvice.com.au/612343/2019-mercedes-benz-g-class-revealed/)Interestingly the plot thickens, merc are part owners of the company currently building a bare bones 4x4 using the spirit of the defender. Its serious 200+ engineers assigned to it.
Access Denied (https://www.motoring.com.au/plan-to-bring-back-defender-gets-benz-backing-111122/)

[DiscoMick]

I see Ratcliffe suggests the Ineos vehicle is only intended to sell 25,000 at 60,000 pounds each, whereas JLR is aiming to sell 100,000 vehicles a year. I guess that means that JLR will have to enter the ute market, where the action is, to get those numbers, as it won't achieve that just from wagons. Also, it will have to start well below 60,000 pounds to get the volume required.
So, 90 and 110, wagon, various utes and maybe some other variants. Aluminium body and chassis, range of tech, workhorse and luxury versions.
It all sounds good, but it's not going to be a traditional Defender - that's just reality.
That's fine by me, it will just make the previous Defenders more desired and valuable.

[Summiitt]

I’ve said it before, but to nail the Australian market, release a base model F250 equivalent, in single and dual cab versions, decent towing capacity and good value- under $90k. The cruiser dual cabs are about $100k with a basic option package,and they sell.. The defenders when available were very good value for money, my 2013 130 was $52k on road with options..hard to beat for a work vehicle..the local Ram dealer told me they are releasing a single cab 4x4 this year, I’ll be interested to see its pricing..

[blackrangie]

Check comment about Gwagon [emoji23][emoji41]

Land Rover Designer Wishes the New Defender Was Here Already, Too (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a19484488/land-rover-designer-wishes-new-defender-was-here-too/)

[grey_ghost]

They could end all the speculation very easily and just release the actual information about it....

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Thats the last thing they will do--

[grey_ghost]

I know Pedro... The “marketing” people think that they will generate more sales when it arrives because it’s been a secret and we’re all so excited. I wonder though - how many sales they will miss because people simply can’t wait anymore and buy something else..

[blackrangie]

I know Pedro... The “marketing” people think that they will generate more sales when it arrives because it’s been a secret and we’re all so excited. I wonder though - how many sales they will miss because people simply can’t wait anymore and buy something else..If its good enough they will sell what they bought [emoji57]

[grey_ghost]

I rekon though - if people really want a Defender they will buy one, if they really hate Land Rover - they won’t buy one regardless, and there are others that are holding out due to their circumstances but can’t wait forever... So why not just come clean!

[trout1105]

Good specs, but just such an ugly car!

The defender isn't pin up material either [bigwhistle]

[scarry]

The defender isn't pin up material either [bigwhistle]

I recon the opposite,looking at the current crop of LR products,a well optioned Defender is the best looker of them all.

The next best is probably a well optioned D2a.

The look of some of those later model vehicles,particularly from the rear is horrid.

Just my 2 cents worth,if we were all thought the same,the place would be boring.......[biggrin]

[donh54]

Release pre-production photos now, and there's going to be a Chinese knock-off on the showroom floors before you know it!
In today's world, I think it speaks volumes for their in-house attitude that there hasn't been any leaked images! How much do you think someone would be offering LR workers for a sneak preview?

[blackrangie]

The defender isn't pin up material either [bigwhistle]Its symetrical and has style

[Grumbles]

I think that it will lose the Defenders distinctive identity and just blend into the multitude of SUVs already on the road. Neither does it look like it will have the inside/bare bones storage capacity and capability of the current Defender.

Being vastly different from everything else on the road has been a Defenders strength. Losing that uniqueness may very well affect the desirability factor and so cost it sales.

But then what do I know.....I go against the crowd in that I reckon the just superseded Mahindra Pik-up looks fantastic and has that desirable 'X' factor - something which car makers strive to achieve.

[nick_e]

JLR are a lost cause.

Currently they have a fleet of waggons that all look pretty much the same. What a joke. How many different models do soccer mums need to choose between?

I don't mind the look of them to be honest. They are nice modern SUVs but it's seriously getting a bit ridiculous. It must get to a point where reusing the same designs/tooling/whatever else they are too broke to invest in actually leads to losing more money.

If the defender just turns into another clone of one of them, well more incentive to keep my 110! Lucky it's in the shop being restored!

I just can't understand how Jeep can modernise the Wrangler, Toyota can modernise the Landcruiser, just about every 4x4 has been modernised while retaining some essence of its original character but JLR can't do it with the defender?

[ramblingboy42]

JLR aren't 'modernising' anything.

they are building a completely new vehicle.

the vehicles you mentioned are all really old conventially designed vehicles.

they will not be able to match Land Rover when the Defender will be released, possibly not for a generation.

now, stop whingeing , be patient and wait.

[donh54]

JLR are a lost cause.

Currently they have a fleet of waggons that all look pretty much the same. What a joke. How many different models do soccer mums need to choose between?

I don't mind the look of them to be honest. They are nice modern SUVs but it's seriously getting a bit ridiculous. It must get to a point where reusing the same designs/tooling/whatever else they are too broke to invest in actually leads to losing more money.

If the defender just turns into another clone of one of them, well more incentive to keep my 110! Lucky it's in the shop being restored!

I just can't understand how Jeep can modernise the Wrangler, Toyota can modernise the Landcruiser, just about every 4x4 has been modernised while retaining some essence of its original character but JLR can't do it with the defender?

JLR has more money now, than it ever had - thanks to those same "nice modern SUVs". Without the cash-flow from them, Defender would be dead and buried.

Personally, I'd like to see a D4 with a lot of the fruit removed, and a manual gearbox, available as either a wagon, a trayback ute, or a dual-cab, in standard and long wheelbase variants. [biggrin][biggrin]

[grey_ghost]

Release pre-production photos now, and there's going to be a Chinese knock-off on the showroom floors before you know it!
In today's world, I think it speaks volumes for their in-house attitude that there hasn't been any leaked images! How much do you think someone would be offering LR workers for a sneak preview?

Fair call and I agree - but that's going to happen anyway, isn't it? As soon as it's released it will be copied.. That's just the Chinese way![bighmmm]

[DiscoMick]

JLR is maximising the number of models it produces using standardised components, which is logical.
The new Defender is to use an aluminum Range Rover platform and existing engines.
It won't be the same as past Defenders, but I expect it to be an excellent vehicle.
That's life in the world of globalised manufacturing.

[nick_e]

JLR has more money now, than it ever had - thanks to those same "nice modern SUVs". Without the cash-flow from them, Defender would be dead and buried.

Personally, I'd like to see a D4 with a lot of the fruit removed, and a manual gearbox, available as either a wagon, a trayback ute, or a dual-cab, in standard and long wheelbase variants. [biggrin][biggrin]

Defender is dead and buried. From what I can tell, it will be a poverty pack Disco or Rangie, and possibly a Disco/Rangie based ute. A dual cab Disco ute would be an interesting one, but a Defender it is not.

If they are so flush with money, then they should be taking more pride in the history of their brand and developing a new 4x4 that brings some essense of the defender into the 21st century. It's an opportunity to show off their off road pedigree, something they seem to have lost sight of. Their stable is full of yuppie busses, bring back a solid workhorse!

[jon3950]

JLR is maximising the number of models it produces using standardised components, which is logical.
The new Defender is to use an aluminum Range Rover platform and existing engines.

Which is a very interesting point to make, Mick.

That’s exactly how the original coil sprung 110/County/Defender was designed. We all seem to be pretty happy with that now.

Cheers,
Jon

[JDNSW]

Not just the coil sprung Landrovers - while the chassis and body of the first Landrover were new, the engine was an existing one, the gearbox dated from 1932, as did the diffs. New design bits also included the transfer case and front axle. Springs shocks, brakes, electrics were all off the shelf.

[jon3950]

Very true. I was thinking specifically of the Range Rover reference, a vehicle that was fairly radical when it was introduced and not considered a “proper” 4wd.

Cheers,
Jon

[rar110]

Very true. I was thinking specifically of the Range Rover reference, a vehicle that was fairly radical when it was introduced and not considered a “proper” 4wd.

Cheers,
Jon

Same reaction to the coil sprung 110/90.

[JDNSW]

Yes. Many were convinced that it could not be a proper four wheel drive without leaf springs.

[Red90]

BS. When the Defenders came out everyone knew the RR was great off road and it would only make the Land Rover better.

Today anyone that knows anything k owe the RR and Disco are crap off road and will make the Defender replacement crap.

[Vern]

Why are they crap offroad?

[JDNSW]

BS. When the Defenders came out everyone knew the RR was great off road and it would only make the Land Rover better.

Today anyone that knows anything k owe the RR and Disco are crap off road and will make the Defender replacement crap.

When Defenders came out, the coil sprung 110 had been on the market for about six years, and if you were round when the 110 came out, like I was, you would be aware that it was considered to have "gone soft" like the Rangerover. Not that they thought the Rangerover was incapable off road, but that coil springs were unsuitable for load carrying, which, after all, is the primary requirement for utility four wheel drives like the Defender and its predecessors. It should be pointed out that most of those who decried the 110 when it came out had no experience with either it or the Rangerover. There was very little overlap between Landrover users and Rangerover users in the early eighties. Rangerover drivers were almost exclusively wealthy, and commonly lived in Toorak if in Melbourne - most Landrover drivers were either wages employees driving them as company vehicles or farmers etc, and a large part of this market was becoming dominated by Toyota and to a lesser extent Nissan, who still used leaf springs and used it as an advertising point in comparing to Landrovers.

I can't comment on the current Landrover products from my own experience, but the reports I have seen say they are not "crap offroad", although their load carrying ability seems to be under that of the Defender.

[uninformed]

Why are they crap offroad?

IMO its because of the reliance of electronic trickery.

Dont get me wrong its amazing what they can do with traction control and all the computer stuff. But the basis for a GOOD offroad vehicle is a stable platform. That being through its physical balance and suspension. All modern SUVs are not! yes they go places but dont do it easy on the vehicle and some times unsafe despite the fact most of the electronic aids are designed to add saftey.

A lurching unstable vehicle is not safe and not easy on the mechanical components

[Naks]

IMO its because of the reliance of electronic trickery.


I don't agree with that... In 10 years of ownership, not a single electronic issue on my Puma, only mechanical ones.

If you read through the issues people are having on the D4/RRS forums, most are mechanical as well, other than a fiddly/slow touchscreen for the SatNav.

And a crank is not electronic either [emoji39]

[rar110]

My 2008 L322 is without doubt better on the beach than my Perentie. The L322 gives me a 2” lift at the press of a button. The L322 is a much better tourer and not had an electrical issue in the L322 I couldn’t solve myself. I’ve had more electrical issues on the 110 which were fairly minor and not show stoppers with a little knowledge.

And the Perentie is turboed with a front trutrack.

I’ve replaced the gearbox/trans in both.

[uninformed]

I don't agree with that... In 10 years of ownership, not a single electronic issue on my Puma, only mechanical ones.

If you read through the issues people are having on the D4/RRS forums, most are mechanical as well, other than a fiddly/slow touchscreen for the SatNav.

And a crank is not electronic either [emoji39]

Please re read my post.

No where did I say electrical/electronic RELIABILITY was the issue!

[blackrangie]

Here we go again

[blackrangie]

The key question, of course, is how much will the new one look like the old one?
"It will be, has to be, a different kind of vehicle," said Woolley, "but still true to the Defender and Defender principles."
In*Detroit*in January,*Mercedes-Benzdrew attention with its own iconic off-roader, unveiling a new*G-Class. Visually, it did not differ much from the outgoing G-Class.
"I tried analyzing it to see what was new," said Woolley. "Every panel on the car is new, but it looks very similar to the previous one. I guess one thing I wish was that we were showing the Defender at the same time [as the new G-Class]. That would have been good. I think that the Defender will, you know, push it in the shade."

What will next Defender look like? (http://www.autonews.com/article/20180319/OEM03/180319755/what-will-defender-look-like?X-IgnoreUserAgent=1)

[blackrangie]

First, and most important: McGovern said the design work is complete. Now it is the job of Land Rover engineers to take McGovern's vision for the next Defender and make sure it lives up to -- and perhaps exceeds -- the original. He says Land Rover engineers are "hellbent" on doing just that.

Land Rover design chief dangles more clues on next Defender (http://www.autonews.com/article/20171017/BLOG06/171019692)

This pic is the only visual indication JLR have given on what the new Defender will look like.

And the 2 door Rangie on the left has just been relesed and looks pretty much identical to outline, the disco also matches outline, guess what the defender will also do.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/392.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180324/c1fe9c83cc3dca13aa429ebf88f3ccfd.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180324/7344fd6279a6d2748b84d1c4c7100a20.jpg

[donh54]

Straight mid-line, squared off front, and is that an external spare tyre on the back? [bighmmm]

Best clues we've had yet! [biggrin]

[ramblingboy42]

Is WHAT an external spare tyre on the back?

I've enlarged the pic and can see no indication of it. Anybody else see what I can't?

[TheGrumpy]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/393.jpg

[blackrangie]

Is WHAT an external spare tyre on the back?

I've enlarged the pic and can see no indication of it. Anybody else see what I can't?Really??

[DiscoMick]

Why an electric powertrain is all wrong for off-road vehicles (http://www.autonews.com/article/20171205/BLOG15/312059916)

Will it be electric?

[cripesamighty]

From what I have read, after 2020 Land Rover will have an electric option in each model range if you so wish to buy it. They will still be selling petrol and diesel powered vehicles though, with the electric vehicles complementing these.

[donh54]

Why an electric powertrain is all wrong for off-road vehicles (http://www.autonews.com/article/20171205/BLOG15/312059916)

Will it be electric?

I so wanted to respond to the nong in the comments below the article!
Not much good having torque from 0 rpm if your battery's flatter than yesterday's beer, and you're 1000 klms from the nearest charging station!

[Deefa]

The new G wagon reminds me of a Lada Niva. Does anyone remember them?

[scarry]

The new G wagon reminds me of a Lada Niva. Does anyone remember them?

Yes my mother had one for years.

Went OK,but quality control was not one of their good points.[bigsad]

[grey_ghost]

I very nearly bought a Lada Niva as my first car... Lol!

[loanrangie]

Nothing wrong with the Niva.

[JDNSW]

My son had one for a while - the two door layout caused it to be traded after the first kid arrived. As scarry commented, QC was not their strong point. But they were cheap for what they did.

[DazzaTD5]

tough as hell, great offroad, err umm horrific build quality, who could forget.

[Grumbles]

The new G wagon reminds me of a Lada Niva. Does anyone remember them?

I sure do. I had one. With wife and two kids on board and trailer at the back we toured in it. At home it was my daily drive and Vic Alps explorer.

A very capable fourby but extremely misunderstood by both mechanics and the four wheel drive magazines of the day. In fact there was a heavy bias against them.

[donh54]

The new G wagon reminds me of a Lada Niva. Does anyone remember them?

Yep. Nephew had one. Even he couldn't break it physically - but he spent a lot of time fixing "little" things - over and over and over and over....

[blackrangie]

Why an electric powertrain is all wrong for off-road vehicles (http://www.autonews.com/article/20171205/BLOG15/312059916)

Will it be electric?All landrovers will have an Electric option by 2020

[Deefa]

Yep. Nephew had one. Even he couldn't break it physically - but he spent a lot of time fixing "little" things - over and over and over and over....

Sounds a little like my Defender. (after spending a Sunday fixing a few issues...again.) The Jeepskis used to be good off road but I dont think there any left now days they have all rusted away. There was even a club in Queensland.

[JDNSW]

I think I've seen at least one on the road within the last year - but I noted it because they are so rare!

[Zeros]

First, and most important: McGovern said the design work is complete. Now it is the job of Land Rover engineers to take McGovern's vision for the next Defender and make sure it lives up to -- and perhaps exceeds -- the original. He says Land Rover engineers are "hellbent" on doing just that.

Land Rover design chief dangles more clues on next Defender (http://www.autonews.com/article/20171017/BLOG06/171019692)

This pic is the only visual indication JLR have given on what the new Defender will look like.

And the 2 door Rangie on the left has just been relesed and looks pretty much identical to outline, the disco also matches outline, guess what the defender will also do.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/392.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/510.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/511.jpg

Yep, here you go... not so exciting:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/512.jpg

[ramblingboy42]

wrong picture Grumpy

[blackrangie]

Yep, here you go... not so exciting:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/512.jpgWhy on earth did you post that??

Thats the old concept from years ago that they scrapped..

Here are a couple of Educated GUESSES of what it COULD look like from Autocar

I like the Orange one!https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/517.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/518.jpg

[colb]

I like the blue colour. Hope they keep it and we don't get charged $2K for anything other than white.

[scarry]

I like the blue colour. Hope they keep it and we don't get charged $2K for anything other than white.

No,you will get charged $4.5K,and with it the 20" off road wheels[biggrin]

[Tombie]

Ironically in Thailand White costs more!!

[rar110]

I like the B&W version above, but needs a bigger cargo area.

[Zeros]

Why on earth did you post that??

Thats the old concept from years ago that they scrapped..

Here are a couple of Educated GUESSES of what it COULD look like from Autocar

I like the Orange one!https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/517.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/518.jpg

...why? because it’s the exact shape of the so called ‘dual-purpose’ vehicle image above. Because I’m not yet convinced it won’t be retro.
The orange one looks like a D5. The black and white one has no cargo space. All three look like retro suv toy cars. None look like a work truck to me.

Looking forward to seeing the real thing. If MB can do it with GWagen, LR can do it with Defender.

[blackrangie]

...why? because it’s the exact shape of the so called ‘dual-purpose’ vehicle image above. Because I’m not yet convinced it won’t be retro.
The orange one looks like a D5. The black and white one has no cargo space. All three look like retro suv toy cars. None look like a work truck to me.

Looking forward to seeing the real thing. If MB can do it with GWagen, LR can do it with Defender.JLR have gone on record it wont be retro and wont be like the original concept from 2011 you posted. Autocar imo are the best bet to keep an eye on, educated guesses based on many factors.

But yeah, getting pretty excited to see the real thing, especially considering how much they are hyping it compared to other 4x4s

[Zeros]

JLR have gone on record it wont be retro and wont be like the original concept from 2011 you posted.

...yes they have, my point is I’m not convinced by the ‘dual purpose’ nomenclature or image. JLR have also said nothing about the next Defender being a work vehicle, suitable for the defence industry, farmers, mining, or other HD applications. ...will it be worthy of the Defender name is the real question they are yet to answer. If not, it will be either retro or mid-duty dualcab. ...we shall see...

[Tombie]

No Defender (old or forthcoming) is a suitable military vehicle for modern warfare.

[DiscoMick]

I'll be using the goat poo test. Could I get 12 bags of goat poo in the back?
Bet Gerry McGovern hasn't factored goat poo bags into his design.

[cjc_td5]

And if they have any brains the new model will not be named a Defender. Kills any arguments of it being a replacement if it is called something else all together.

[blackrangie]

...yes they have, my point is I’m not convinced by the ‘dual purpose’ nomenclature or image. JLR have also said nothing about the next Defender being a work vehicle, suitable for the defence industry, farmers, mining, or other HD applications. ...will it be worthy of the Defender name is the real question they are yet to answer. If not, it will be either retro or mid-duty dualcab. ...we shall see...They have said it will be worthy of the defender name and the SVX version should make it even more so.

[blackrangie]

And if they have any brains the new model will not be named a Defender. Kills any arguments of it being a replacement if it is called something else all together.Yes, they will no doubt throw away 60+ years of Marketing and brand loyalty [emoji23]
They have also gone to great pains recently to protect the Defender name so i think it may live on.

[blackrangie]

...yes they have, my point is I’m not convinced by the ‘dual purpose’ nomenclature or image. JLR have also said nothing about the next Defender being a work vehicle, suitable for the defence industry, farmers, mining, or other HD applications. ...will it be worthy of the Defender name is the real question they are yet to answer. If not, it will be either retro or mid-duty dualcab. ...we shall see...Given the D5 has been released in an Industrial model with just front seats, I can see the defender bring released in HD versions in due course. Maybe just SVX maybe more. I can imagine SVX Fender is going to be pretty full on given they put a rear winch and upgraded travel suspension on the D5 SVX

[cjc_td5]

Yes, they will no doubt throw away 60+ years of Marketing and brand loyalty [emoji23]
They have also gone to great pains recently to protect the Defender name so i think it may live on.Its only about 30 years of Defender name loyalty [emoji6]. Calling the new model a Series IV would have more historical loyalty....

[blackrangie]

Its only about 30 years of Defender name loyalty [emoji6]. Calling the new model a Series IV would have more historical loyalty....The non LR public views a Land Rover and a Defender as the same thing, calling it a series IV would only apeal to those that have owned a series landrover. As JLR have spoken about this new model as a Defender and as the Defender replacment + the value of the Defender brand (more value then series even [emoji6]) I would be extremely surprised if the new name doesnt have Defender in it.

[Tins]

I very nearly bought a Lada Niva as my first car... Lol!

My dad bought one new. Apart from the poor pedal position, and the pedals themselves ( lifted straight out the FIAT 125 by the looks ), the appalling quality control ( Peter Brock did the pre delivery... well, his company did ) the Niva wasn't a bad little car. He hit a tree in it, with me in the passenger seat. Damn that thing was strong.

However, my mother, after 4 Subarus, bought a Samara at the same time. I doubt there has ever been a worse car. The old joke " What do you call a Lada with twin exhausts....... a wheelbarrow" could have been written for that car except wheelbarrows are reliable.

[Zeros]

No Defender (old or forthcoming) is a suitable military vehicle for modern warfare.
If a G Wagon is, there’s no reason why the next Defender can’t be. ...if it isn’t, correct it’s not a Defender.

[Tombie]

If a G Wagon is, there’s no reason why the next Defender can’t be. ...if it isn’t, correct it’s not a Defender.

I’d seriously question the Gwagon also.
Totally useless piece of equipment..

[Zeros]

Given the D5 has been released in an Industrial model with just front seats, I can see the defender bring released in HD versions in due course. Maybe just SVX maybe more. I can imagine SVX Fender is going to be pretty full on given they put a rear winch and upgraded travel suspension on the D5 SVX

There’s nothing industrial about a D5 with no back seats. It’s a station wagon.

[Zeros]

I’d seriously question the Gwagon also.
Totally useless piece of equipment..


[bigrolf]

[DiscoMick]

The non LR public views a Land Rover and a Defender as the same thing, calling it a series IV would only apeal to those that have owned a series landrover. As JLR have spoken about this new model as a Defender and as the Defender replacment + the value of the Defender brand (more value then series even [emoji6]) I would be extremely surprised if the new name doesnt have Defender in it.They've said the Defender will be a whole family under the 'premium durable' slogan so they seem determined to keep the brand loyalty.

[Tins]

I’d seriously question the Gwagon also.
Totally useless piece of equipment..

Not sure I'd classify the Geländewagen as useless, but amazingly overpriced, underequipped and unsupported in this market would get my vote.

Ducks....

[trout1105]

I can remember the old Landrover slogan of "Drives like a car and pulls like a Tractor".
Maybe the new Defender will do just that

[Tombie]

Not sure I'd classify the Geländewagen as useless, but amazingly overpriced, underequipped and unsupported in this market would get my vote.

Ducks....

Speak to some Army guys when you get a chance.
Only bit the Grunts like is A/C.

Only carries 4 people, mechanics are always repairing, quite poor offroad - couple on their side during operations up here last year.

[scarry]

Speak to some Army guys when you get a chance.
Only bit the Grunts like is A/C.

Only carries 4 people, mechanics are always repairing, quite poor offroad - couple on their side during operations up here last year.

Quite a few have ended on their side.

A mate of mines son was badly injured in one during an exercise up here.

They are still waiting for the full report on the accident.

Failed BFG KO's were blamed for some of the incidents.

[ramblingboy42]

nawwwww , not bfg's , someone made a mistake. surely.

[blackrangie]

There’s nothing industrial about a D5 with no back seats. It’s a station wagon.Seems pretty industrious to me [emoji6]

[Zeros]

Seems pretty industrious to me [emoji6]

Domestic.

[ramblingboy42]

Sounds interesting to me.....I havent followed the d5 much....is it actually in Australia's model line up?

I ran my d2 like that for years, sometimes threw the rear seats in ...took 15-20mins....and if I wantted the rear space again , took the seats out.I did it at least twice each year for my regular desert trips.

[blackrangie]

Sounds interesting to me.....I havent followed the d5 much....is it actually in Australia's model line up?

I ran my d2 like that for years, sometimes threw the rear seats in ...took 15-20mins....and if I wantted the rear space again , took the seats out.I did it at least twice each year for my regular desert trips.Drops all 4 rear seats, ad's panels inside rear privacy glass, hard floor and cargo barrier, powered tailgate.

There’s under-floor storage, as well as access points space under what would ordinarily be the rear seats.

From its wide-spaced double-wishbone design at the front to its advanced multi-link layout at the rear, the Discovery Commercial’s suspension delivers more responsive handling without compromising Land Rover’s hallmark all-terrain capability and makes all journeys confident, comfortable and engaging.

Pretty much like a commercial van interior in rear, with luxury front and go anywhere capability.


Land Rover Discovery Commercial off-road van launched in time for Christmas | Auto Express (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/discovery/102104/land-rover-discovery-commercial-off-road-van-launched-in-time-for)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/ff85645b5441940a4df070515ae2d41f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/b66dec813e68b591a34d6946f2bebacb.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/d8b0a8d455efc6cf9089a183a188ff36.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/073ff42693508a8efe78049bc1a48673.jpg

[blackrangie]

The Defender test mule is on Coils.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/555.jpg

[loanrangie]

I wonder if air will be an option.

[cripesamighty]

Would be nice if there was an option, as I am gathering they want to sell as many of these as possible to make it economically viable. My thinking is that if the D5 can come with coils, then the Defender will most likely come with an air option as that would be a missed opportunity. By not offering air they might limit their potential sales in some markets, like the USA where they like their creature comforts. Heaven knows that Land Rover love you paying for every option anyway!

[DiscoMick]

I reckon there will be a really wide range of options and variants, to win as many sales as possible off the platform.

[loanrangie]

I reckon there will be a really wide range of options and variants, to win as many sales as possible off the platform.Yes to maximize sales.

[blackrangie]

Defender sport possibility

EXCLUSIVE - JLR shoots for millennials with L860 SUV | Automotive Industry News | just-auto (https://www.just-auto.com/news/exclusive-jlr-shoots-for-millennials-with-l860-suv_id180127.aspx)

[donh54]

Must've hired some reporters from Womens Day or The Enquirer! Show an old photo, and fill the page with fluff, with no basis whatsoever.

[blackrangie]

Must've hired some reporters from Womens Day or The Enquirer! Show an old photo, and fill the page with fluff, with no basis whatsoever.Actually the photo and its caption make sense, and the model would make sense based on JLR's history with RR sport, Disco sport..is it that hard to believe that a Defender Sport will happen?

[Tombie]

Defender sport possibility

EXCLUSIVE - JLR shoots for millennials with L860 SUV | Automotive Industry News | just-auto (https://www.just-auto.com/news/exclusive-jlr-shoots-for-millennials-with-l860-suv_id180127.aspx)

Behind a Paywall.

[donh54]

Actually the photo and its caption make sense, and the model would make sense based on JLR's history with RR sport, Disco sport..is it that hard to believe that a Defender Sport will happen?

Any magazine article that begins with the words "Sources suggest ..." means that everything that follows is either (a) speculation, or (b) bull****.

The illustration accompanying the "article" (I use the term very loosely) was of the original DC100 concept car, shown at Frankfurt in 2011.

In a Drive.com.au article (still not the best source for truthful motoring news, but at least being attributed to someone supposedly "in the know" at JLR, in (I believe) November 2012, Stephen Ottley stated the following:

Land Rover has gone back to the drawing board for its next-generation Defender after mixed reviews of its radical DC100 concept.

The brand's global PR manager, Dave Roynon, admits some people hated the DC100, launched in 2011, and says the new Defender won't look like it.

"We're doing lots of market research, we're doing lots of studies," Roynon says. "We did DC100 to see what the reception was ... It's a bit of a Marmite [England's answer to Vegemite] car, some people loved it, some people hated it. I loved it as a styling exercise, but is it something that would replace Defender? No."

Article link: Land Rover backs down on Defender (https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/land-rover-backs-down-on-defender-20121211-2b8nm)

As I stated earlier, Just Autos' Mike Vousden used an outdated image, and basically wrote something that can't be attributed to anybody at JLR.

I would assume that the President of the USA (amongst others) would probably term it as "Fake News" and I would have to agree! [bigwhistle]

[blackrangie]

Any magazine article that begins with the words "Sources suggest ..." means that everything that follows is either (a) speculation, or (b) bull****.

The illustration accompanying the "article" (I use the term very loosely) was of the original DC100 concept car, shown at Frankfurt in 2011.

In a Drive.com.au article (still not the best source for truthful motoring news, but at least being attributed to someone supposedly "in the know" at JLR, in (I believe) November 2012, Stephen Ottley stated the following:

Land Rover has gone back to the drawing board for its next-generation Defender after mixed reviews of its radical DC100 concept.

The brand's global PR manager, Dave Roynon, admits some people hated the DC100, launched in 2011, and says the new Defender won't look like it.

"We're doing lots of market research, we're doing lots of studies," Roynon says. "We did DC100 to see what the reception was ... It's a bit of a Marmite [England's answer to Vegemite] car, some people loved it, some people hated it. I loved it as a styling exercise, but is it something that would replace Defender? No."

Article link: Land Rover backs down on Defender (https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/land-rover-backs-down-on-defender-20121211-2b8nm)

As I stated earlier, Just Autos' Mike Vousden used an outdated image, and basically wrote something that can't be attributed to anybody at JLR.

I would assume that the President of the USA (amongst others) would probably term it as "Fake News" and I would have to agree! [bigwhistle]Sorry, I see no problem with the article or the picture or the caption under the picture.

At no time are they saying that the DC100 lives, read the caption again, "previewed here by the Concept"

Good journalists never realease thier sources if the info is not public.

Also the info seems logical

Have no intention and getting in it too any further discussion if this is true or not, merely pointing out that this could be another piece of the Defender puzzle all big picture Defender and defender sport.

Defender
Defender SVO
Defender SVX
Defender Sport





https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/04/293.jpg

[scarry]

At least it doesn't look like a RR,which makes it different from everything else they produce.

Hopefully they have at last realised that making a heap of different models,all looking very similar doesn't do the brand any favours.

The average Jo,who is the targeted buyer would have no idea which model is which,particularly from a distance.

[Homestar]

It'll look like every other new Land Rover but with a 'Defender' badge rather that 'Range Rover' or 'Discovery' or 'Evoque' or 'Velar" or whatever else they have these days. They've said it won't be anything like the old one, I have no idea why people are pinning their hopes on it - go buy a 79 series Land Cruiser - that will be be closer than anything LR will come up with...

[rangieman]

It'll look like every other new Land Rover but with a 'Defender' badge rather that 'Range Rover' or 'Discovery' or 'Evoque' or 'Velar" or whatever else they have these days. They've said it won't be anything like the old one, I have no idea why people are pinning their hopes on it - go buy a 79 series Land Cruiser - that will be be closer than anything LR will come up with...
Mate you said those words go wash your mouth out :Rolling:
Your dead right tho in my opinion it will just be another clone of the current line up [tonguewink].
I will stand to be corrected [bigwhistle]I cant see that happening [bighmmm]

[loanrangie]

I dont mind the L860, i think of it as LR's Suzki Sierra.

[scarry]

It'll look like every other new Land Rover but with a 'Defender' badge rather that 'Range Rover' or 'Discovery' or 'Evoque' or 'Velar" or whatever else they have these days. They've said it won't be anything like the old one, I have no idea why people are pinning their hopes on it - go buy a 79 series Land Cruiser - that will be be closer than anything LR will come up with...

While dropping the van off for a service today,yes they do them Saturdays,which is great,i noticed a new 76 in the yard.

They got it out and i went for a run.

Not as bad as i thought it would be,certainly quieter at speed than the Deefer.

Maybe i could use one for work then it is 100% tax right off[bigsmile1]

[Zeros]

It'll look like every other new Land Rover but with a 'Defender' badge rather that 'Range Rover' or 'Discovery' or 'Evoque' or 'Velar" or whatever else they have these days. They've said it won't be anything like the old one, I have no idea why people are pinning their hopes on it - go buy a 79 series Land Cruiser - that will be be closer than anything LR will come up with...

I agree it’s the most likely outcome going on recent form.

But I don’t think all that many are pinning their hopes on the next Defender. Most are buying dual cabs.

Those who are pinning their hopes on the next Defender, are doing so because there is no alternative. Those who know how over-rated and over-priced Land Cruiser is. Those who want a large heavy duty wagon or ute and don’t want to have to wear a kidney belt to drive it.

Dont hold your breath though! 😳

[Grumbles]

Your dead right tho in my opinion it will just be another clone of the current line up.

Ford did the same thing with the Fairlane. Up until the last of the NL series Fairlane it always had its own unique and stand out body styling. At a glance people could tell that it was an upmarket limo with an appropriate - read high - limo purchase price.

Following on from the 'N' series Falcons and Fairlanes came the AU Fairlane and Falcon. The AU Fairlane was designed and manufactured so that it looked just like any other AU Falcon. Sales fell in a hole forcing Ford to cancel Fairlane manufacturing for ever.

The reason for the big drop in sales was that owners wanted to stand out from the common garden variety of car ownership and that at a glance Fairlane possession proclaimed to all and sundry that the owner had 'made it' in society, had a substantial disposable income and therefore could afford the upmarket Fairlanes asking price. This goal was not achieved when the AU Fairlane looked substantially like its common garden variety brother - the AU Falcon

It seems that Landrover may be going to emulate the same policy that Ford instigated when it designed the AU Fairlane to look like the AU Falcon so that universal parts and cheaper manufacturing costs were achieved albeit at the unplanned cost of losing sight of what the Fairlane meant to prospective purchasers.

[blackrangie]

Ford did the same thing with the Fairlane. Up until the last of the NL series Fairlane it always had its own unique and stand out body styling. At a glance people could tell that it was an upmarket limo with an appropriate - read high - limo purchase price.

Following on from the 'N' series Falcons and Fairlanes came the AU Fairlane and Falcon. The AU Fairlane was designed and manufactured so that it looked just like any other AU Falcon. Sales fell in a hole forcing Ford to cancel Fairlane manufacturing for ever.

The reason for the big drop in sales was that owners wanted to stand out from the common garden variety of car ownership and that at a glance Fairlane possession proclaimed to all and sundry that the owner had 'made it' in society, had a substantial disposable income and therefore could afford the upmarket Fairlanes asking price. This goal was not achieved when the AU Fairlane looked substantially like its common garden variety brother - the AU Falcon

It seems that Landrover may be going to emulate the same policy that Ford instigated when it designed the AU Fairlane to look like the AU Falcon so that universal parts and cheaper manufacturing costs were achieved albeit at the unplanned cost of losing sight of what the Fairlane meant to prospective purchasers.Just remember they are on record saying, the new Defender will "Put the G Class into the shade"

[Grumbles]

Just remember they are on record saying, the new Defender will "Put the G Class into the shade"

......and perhaps that same sentiment will also apply to the pricing thus limiting its market appeal and accessibility.

[blackrangie]

Land Rover Defender: Giant snowy outline celebrates anniversary (https://www.caradvice.com.au/638102/land-rover-defender-giant-snowy-outline-celebrates-anniversary/)

[DiscoMick]

Logical for them to spin off a smaller Sport version of the next Defender, just as they have with the Range Rover and Discovery.

[Vern]

Logical for them to spin off a smaller Sport version of the next Defender, just as they have with the Range Rover and Discovery.What like a defender 90?

[Tombie]

Ford did the same thing with the Fairlane. Up until the last of the NL series Fairlane it always had its own unique and stand out body styling. At a glance people could tell that it was an upmarket limo with an appropriate - read high - limo purchase price.

Following on from the 'N' series Falcons and Fairlanes came the AU Fairlane and Falcon. The AU Fairlane was designed and manufactured so that it looked just like any other AU Falcon. Sales fell in a hole forcing Ford to cancel Fairlane manufacturing for ever.

The reason for the big drop in sales was that owners wanted to stand out from the common garden variety of car ownership and that at a glance Fairlane possession proclaimed to all and sundry that the owner had 'made it' in society, had a substantial disposable income and therefore could afford the upmarket Fairlanes asking price. This goal was not achieved when the AU Fairlane looked substantially like its common garden variety brother - the AU Falcon

It seems that Landrover may be going to emulate the same policy that Ford instigated when it designed the AU Fairlane to look like the AU Falcon so that universal parts and cheaper manufacturing costs were achieved albeit at the unplanned cost of losing sight of what the Fairlane meant to prospective purchasers.

Yes the ever un-aerodynamic early Fairlane... a big car for a big ego that couldn’t afford a BMW or Mercedes.

Horrible things, with all the styling of 1975...

Designed for the Sales Manager, whilst the salesmen ran around in GL falcons..

Hopefully LR is going Brand Recognition ala BMW and not Fords business model gone wrong.

[blackrangie]

Yes the ever un-aerodynamic early Fairlane... a big car for a big ego that couldn’t afford a BMW or Mercedes.

Horrible things, with all the styling of 1975...

Designed for the Sales Manager, whilst the salesmen ran around in GL falcons..

Hopefully LR is going Brand Recognition ala BMW and not Fords business model gone wrong.Agree you can 100% see they are putting massive efforts into BR

[Grumbles]

Yes the ever un-aerodynamic early Fairlane... a big car for a big ego that couldn’t afford a BMW or Mercedes.

Horrible things, with all the styling of 1975...

Designed for the Sales Manager, whilst the salesmen ran around in GL falcons..



I had an NL Fairlane. It was a fantastic car to own, great all round vision, able to see all four corners of the car, terrific fuel economy, a comfortable ride and economical to maintain at the Ford dealership.......and I wasn't even a sales manager or had an inadequate bank account.

[Zeros]

Just remember they are on record saying, the new Defender will "Put the G Class into the shade"

Who said this? I’ve never read it..

[rick130]

Who said this? I’ve never read it..One of the engineers/product development blokes (not McGovern) after the new G Class launch (in the US I think it was)

Only because apparently every panel is new on the G but you can't tell, it looks like the old one, or at least that's my take when I read the comment

[Zeros]

One of the engineers/product development blokes (not McGovern) after the new G Class launch (in the US I think it was)

Only because apparently every panel is new on the G but you can't tell, it looks like the old one, or at least that's my take when I read the comment

Do you have a link?

[rick130]

Naa, it was a couple of weeks back, might've even been a link on this thread?

[SBD4]

Do you have a link?
Here's one of the articles with the quote:
Land Rover Designer Wishes the New Defender Was Here Already, Too (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a19484488/land-rover-designer-wishes-new-defender-was-here-too/)

[Zeros]

Here's one of the articles with the quote:
Land Rover Designer Wishes the New Defender Was Here Already, Too (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a19484488/land-rover-designer-wishes-new-defender-was-here-too/)

Thanks Sean, they are fighting words indeed. Encouraging to hear. Let’s hope so.

👍

[dfendr]

Plan to bring back Defender gets Benz backing - motoring.com.au (https://www.motoring.com.au/plan-to-bring-back-defender-gets-benz-backing-111122/)

[SBD4]

Land Rover takes aim at X-Class - motoring.com.au (https://www.motoring.com.au/land-rover-takes-aim-at-x-class-112272/)

[Ecopix]

It's water under the bridge now, as they must be close to finished the New Defender, but I would have liked Tata to have taken over the Defender project from JLR.


Tata are better placed to make a vehicle more in line with the original Series/Defender heritage - a world people's utility vehicle. When you think of Landrover, you think of Africa, dust, people and animals piled into them and on their roof racks on some God-forsaken third-world road, up to their axles in bulldust. Can JLR still do that?


Tata could have used any Rover technology that they wanted, but cranked out a simple, strong all-road people's car at the right price from their Indian factories. It could have been an explosive success, greater than the unexpected success of the original in the 1950's.


There seems to me a huge gap in the 4WD market at present. Landcruiser has gone big, expensive and fuel-thirsty, more than what a 4wd ute really needs. Hilux has gone a bit dainty and flash, at least in perception. All the Japanese ones are creeping up in price, and, lets face it, they all look the same and offer much the same thing to the same market. None tap into the new environmental ethos.


Tata could have reinvented Defender as a modern fuel efficient, environmentally friendly, simple-to-work-on, off-highway utility vehicle at a price ripe for the picking in the huge growth market of the developing world, and leave the cashed-up wannabe-macho first world market to British billionaires. If not, that huge world market will be left to the Chinese - good for them.


I'm sure New Defender will be a fine vehicle, but, like everyone else here it seems, I expect it to be just another boring, swishy-looking, expensive JLR clone. Hope we're wrong.

[Tombie]

Sadly it’s commentary like the above which demonstrates very little understanding of vehicle development, costing and compliance requirements.

There is no way a non-compliant vehicle could be built profitably in the modern world. It’s markets would restrict it and price would be exorbitant.

[DiscoMick]

Tata already makes a basic 4WD, but it flopped here.

[goingbush]

Sadly it’s commentary like the above which demonstrates very little understanding of vehicle development, costing and compliance requirements.

There is no way a non-compliant vehicle could be built profitably in the modern world. It’s markets would restrict it and price would be exorbitant.


beg to differ, Manufacturers can easily make a basic vehicle compliant . All the mod cons and fashion luxuries do not need to be included .

[Grumbles]

Tata already makes a basic 4WD, but it flopped here.

That was the Tata fourby wagon and it was imported by a third party importer, not Tata, who either didn't have or didn't want to spend the necessary dollars in promotional advertising/support. The same thing happened with Mahindra - it was originally imported by a third party importer who, like the Tata importer, failed in the promotional and country wide support areas. Sales and support improved dramatically when both parent companies took over sales, adverting and support for their respective vehicles.

[Tombie]

beg to differ, Manufacturers can easily make a basic vehicle compliant . All the mod cons and fashion luxuries do not need to be included .

Still needs crash compliance.
Multiple airbags
Emissions standards
Noise standards
Handling must meet criteria (lane change and braking)
Needs ABS and ESC

We’re not talking a low volume build that can apply for exemptions.

The “luxuries” are the easy, simple stuff, nothing more than a factory versions of all the PCs, Droid, Raspberry Pie type gadgets we drop in.

[Ecopix]

There is no way a non-compliant vehicle could be built profitably in the modern world.


Tombie, why do you say it would be non-compliant? I just meant not so posh and upmarket to be irrelevant to most of its world market. It could (will) be a lot smarter and higher-tech than a Landcruiser. All makers have to meet the same standards.


No, I'm not a car expert, but given everyone's comments above (I read the whole thread and the ones before it before posting), Tata seem better placed to meet world demand for a world vehicle than a U.K. luxury car maker. It's such a different project. But we'll see - there might be some similar arrangement behind the scenes, that they're not making a big deal of. They've said they need volume sales.


Anyway, my comment was just to add an idea to the conversation, in my attempt to contribute to the forums. Wasn't meant to be taken as gospel.


Tata already makes a basic 4WD, but it flopped here.


DiscoMick, so did Defender! [happycry] Neither were going to be big hits here. Defender was economical and plain, short haul, very off-road capable transport, whereas cashed-up Aussies needed/wanted powerful and showy, long-haul transport with only medium off-road ability (unless they make a sport of it, for which they can modify).


The new one could (will?) still be Defender size and capability, with Landrover componentry and sold under Landrover customer support - let's hope nothing like a Tata ute (which I've used - okay for what it was). Presumably nothing like a Hilux/Ranger/BT50 etc either. Or Discovery - it should have the room of a troopie.


Question: If you want a new full-sized, roomy, cross-country capable 4wd with decent load rating, but don't want a fuel-guzzler or a truck, what do you buy currently, without re-manufacturing it at the aftermarket shop? Not that I'll be buying one - I'm waiting for the solar-powered electric version!


But just out of interest, Tata's credentials for a compliant Defender:


From their sales brochure: "Tata vehicles are already found in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas. India’s largest automobile company, it is the world’s fifth largest truck manufacturer and fourth largest bus manufacturer. The first Tata vehicle rolled off the production line in 1954... [have] made over 8 million vehicles of all types so far."


And from Professor Google: "Tata Motors has auto manufacturing and assembly plants in Jamshedpur, Pantnagar, Lucknow, Sanand, Dharwad, and Pune in India, as well as in Argentina, South Africa, Great Britain and Thailand, with additional research and development centres in Spain and South Korea. It plans to establish plants in Turkey, Indonesia, and Eastern Europe. The world's fifth largest and India's largest automobile company. Tata Motors' principal subsidiaries include:


Jaguar Land Rover the British company making Jaguar and Land Rover (including Range Rover) cars
Fiat-Tata, was a joint venture with Fiat which manufactures automotive components and Fiat and Tata branded vehicles
Tata Technologies, Tata Daewoo, Tata Hitachi Construction Machinery and others.


Other Tata ventures include:
Tata Consultancy Services, Asia's largest IT company and World's Largest Software and Services Company
Titan Industries, World's 5th largest watch manufacturer.
Tata Power, India’s largest private sector electricity producer
Tata Starbucks, Tetley Tea
Tata Steel, World's 12th largest steel company.
Computational Research Laboratories, Tata initiative in high performance computing
Tata Institute of Fundamental Research
Indian Institute of Science
Tata Ecotechnology Centre


There are 19 Tata companies operating across Europe, with well over 60000 employees and a presence in almost every European country. Tata Motors is ranked 226th on the Fortune Global 500 list of the world's biggest corporations as of 2016.

And they've already got the name, anyway:
123MOTORS: TATA-LAND ROVER-1515F (http://123motors.blogspot.com.au/2013/10/tata-land-rover-1515f.html)

[frantic]

Still needs crash compliance.
Multiple airbags
Emissions standards
Noise standards
Handling must meet criteria (lane change and braking)
Needs ABS and ESC

We’re not talking a low volume build that can apply for exemptions.

The “luxuries” are the easy, simple stuff, nothing more than a factory versions of all the PCs, Droid, Raspberry Pie type gadgets we drop in.
Actually he’s part right, toymota drop at least 2 off the list in other markets with the 70series, they still use the na 4.2 6cyl diesel , not the td4.4v8 we’ve had here to meet emissions laws for 5-6 years . This would lower the cost and make it more reliable as well as increase sales.
Landcruiser 70 - Double Cab - Toyota Tsusho Pacific Holdings - Ela Motors (http://www.elamotors.com.pg/product-showroom/toyota/item/24-landcruiser-70-double-cab)

[Arapiles]

Defender will be built on a new platform, known as the MLA (Modular Longitudinal Architecture):

Every Jaguar Land Rover to be renewed by 2024 | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/every-jaguar-land-rover-be-renewed-2024)

"First up on the MLA platform will be the long-awaited new Defender. Its extended development cycle now makes more sense because its launch had to coincide with the new architecture.
It will be made at JLR’s new Slovakian plant from 2020, alongside the Discovery 5, which itself starts full production in Nitra this year based on the existing aluminium underpinnings. The space made available at Solihull with the relocation of the Discovery is expected to be filled later in 2020 by the new Jaguar J-Pace, a large super-luxury SUV also based on the MLA platform. Autocar understands that the next XJ is also set to make use of the electric version of MLA (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2019-jaguar-xj-be-reborn-high-tech-electric-flagship)."

My guess is that the Defender will be monocoque with sub-frames, because they've been referring to it as their toughest platform so it needs to be stronger than the other models like the Defender, so it would be something like the integrated body of the D3 and D4, which had a monocoque body sitting on a ladder frame.


Also, this from January 2018, as a refresher:

New Land Rover Defender edges closer to production as cold weather testing commences | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-land-rover-defender-edges-closer-production-cold-weather-testing-commences)

[goingbush]

The more I hear about the new Defender the more I think its not for me .

Ive signed / reserved a Bollinger B1 (non binding) , RHD will be a long way off but probably before the E-Defender .(maybe even before the ICE Defender ) The only thing I don't like about Bollinger is how they do all their videos in Black & White, but at least their Mules aren't covers in squiggly wrap.

[ramblingboy42]

Arapiles , that "info" is from Autocar Magazine not Land Rover.....nothing official there.

Land Rover have NOT repeat NOT released anything official about the Defender.

Put it in the pile with the rest.

Nothing heard ...out!

[Arapiles]

Arapiles , that "info" is from Autocar Magazine not Land Rover.....nothing official there.

Yes - it has "Autocar" at the end of the link.

Still, seems pretty detailed and specific for a sourceless article.

[rammypluge]

The New Land Rover Defender Looks Just Like a Mercedes G-Wagen From Here (https://jalopnik.com/the-new-land-rover-defender-looks-just-like-a-mercedes-1831177304/amp)

[Red90]

There is a whole section devoted to talking about the new Defender.

[rammypluge]

There is a whole section devoted to talking about the new Defender.L660 or something? I couldnt post in that.

[p38arover]

L660 or something? I couldn't post in that.

See Can't post? Read this. (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ask-a-moderator/265448-cant-post-read.html) to find out why.

[blackrangie]

The New Land Rover Defender Looks Just Like a Mercedes G-Wagen From Here (https://jalopnik.com/the-new-land-rover-defender-looks-just-like-a-mercedes-1831177304/amp)

Anyone notice the wheelbase, looks longer than an LSE Rangie or about the same as the new LWB Rangie.

Great departure angle

Put Dec 27th in Calendar, done!

New defender looks hot in this shothttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181219/8c9cc45123cf10bc1b8fbd429108e3db.jpg

[SBD4]

The New Land Rover Defender Looks Just Like a Mercedes G-Wagen From Here (https://jalopnik.com/the-new-land-rover-defender-looks-just-like-a-mercedes-1831177304/amp)

Anyone notice the wheelbase, looks longer than an LSE Rangie or about the same as the new LWB Rangie.

Great departure angle

Put Dec 27th in Calendar, done!

New defender looks hot in this shothttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181219/8c9cc45123cf10bc1b8fbd429108e3db.jpg

...and looks quite large too assuming the person in it is an average individual. From earlier 'discussions' the wheel bases are nominal so 90/110/130 are not actual size. D4 is about 113" and this looks very close to that making this the "110".

[Zeros]

I reckon it just looks like a Discovery 4. Same shape, same size. The ‘pinched’ rear is just like Disco too. .... ooh 27th! Unveiling or more ‘spy’ shots?

[discorevy]

It would appear the way Land Rover are marketing this is having the desired effect, seems journos and forums are taking the bait .
Will it be an extremely capable vehicle , absolutely.
will it look the goods , subjective but I think it will.
it will no doubt be efficient in ICE or EV form, probably tick all the ergonomic boxes and be comfortable as well.
reliability.....after the initial teething problems (and there will be some) it's going to be a no brainer compared to the rubbish quality previous offering now that LR isn't shackled by their **** poor QC ( and I don't mean the TD5 which was the last proper defender IMO) I'm sure at the least you won't have to rebuild ( properly) half the vehicle before going remote.
Will it sell in respectable numbers ( even if it is 70 -80 000 aud) .....I reckon it will.

[scarry]

I reckon it just looks like a Discovery 4. Same shape, same size. The ‘pinched’ rear is just like Disco too. .... ooh 27th! Unveiling or more ‘spy’ shots?

I hope your right,i wouldn't mind a new D4[thumbsupbig]

[manic]

Will it be an extremely capable vehicle , absolutely.


The brake rotors look small, so there is a chance you could get some decent rubber on it. If they match the old defender for tyre size, spare on the back door, same if not better towing and load capacity (150kg on the roof?), close to 1000km range, option for coils, basic vinyl/plastic/rubber interior, no need for aftermarket lockers or suspension mods - it will be the best 4x4 on their show room floor by far.

[manic]

...and looks quite large too assuming the person in it is an average individual. From earlier 'discussions' the wheel bases are nominal so 90/110/130 are not actual size. D4 is about 113" and this looks very close to that making this the "110".

It looks like a 90 to me (100"). No way they can fit a second row door to that and call it a 110. It would have the boot of a D1! But you might be right.... its hard to tell with all that wrap.

[blackrangie]

It looks like a 90 to me (100"). No way they can fit a second row door to that and call it a 110. It would have the boot of a D1! But you might be right.... its hard to tell with all that wrap.Dont know what photo your looking at haha, its at least 110

[Zeros]

It looks good and boxy but the load space looks small.

Defender (Discovery 4)? - 110 4 door
146904


Defender - rear - looks very similar shape to D4
146905

[Homestar]

Looks like a slightly modified D4. But that’s probably to be expected from the laziest design team going after Porsche....

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I think you mean conservative,,,







yea, alright bone lazy...

[rar110]

Hopefully the coil version has better off road capability than the D3 coil version. It wasn’t that great going off several posts on here by owners wanting lifts etc.

[Zeros]

Hopefully the coil version has better off road capability than the D3 coil version. It wasn’t that great going off several posts on here by owners wanting lifts etc.

Coil version?

[Zeros]

I enjoyed this tweet about the new Defender pic:
"Put it back in the oven. It’s not done yet." [thumbsupbig]


Here's the full picture - note the date.

146928

[rar110]

Coil version?

The D3 had a factory coil version (RSA also got a D4 with coils for limited time).

Normally was the Discovery 3 S version. I suspect JLR did this as an option because the P38a EAS had a reputation that carried through to the early L322 to some extent.

[scarry]

Hopefully the coil version has better off road capability than the D3 coil version. It wasn’t that great going off several posts on here by owners wanting lifts etc.

I recon if there was the coil and EAS suspension option,i would go with the EAS.
It has so many advantages over coils,particularly in a vehicle with independent front and rear suspension.

Sure there could be reliability issues,but there are not many issues with D4 EAS systems,and by now the newer vehicles systems are/should be very reliable.

And if a fault does occur,using the GAP tool,the air compresser can be forced on,fuses pulled,etc to keep the system inflated,in the event of a failure in a remote area.

[rar110]

I recon if there was the coil and EAS suspension option,i would go with the EAS.
It has so many advantages over coils,particularly in a vehicle with independent front and rear suspension.

Sure there could be reliability issues,but there are not many issues with D4 EAS systems,and by now the newer vehicles systems are/should be very reliable.

And if a fault does occur,using the GAP tool,the air compresser can be forced on,fuses pulled,etc to keep the system inflated,in the event of a failure in a remote area.

100% agree. My 2008 L322 EAS has been trouble free. I wouldn’t buy a new Defender without EAS. Not that it’s likely I would buy one anyway.

[Zeros]

100% agree. My 2008 L322 EAS has been trouble free. I wouldn’t buy a new Defender without EAS. Not that it’s likely I would buy one anyway.

You only need EAS if constant clearance isn't good enough [bigwhistle] ...My 1998 coil springs have always been trouble free. [thumbsupbig]

[Geedublya]

You only need EAS if constant clearance isn't good enough [bigwhistle] ...My 1998 coil springs have always been trouble free. [thumbsupbig]

I’ve been on a few trips where coil sprung live axle cars (Landrovers) have been hung up their diffs and D3/D4s have not even come close to being caught.

EAS gives you lots of options that coilers don’t have.

[scarry]

I’ve been on a few trips where coil sprung live axle cars (Landrovers) have been hung up their diffs and D3/D4s have not even come close to being caught.

EAS gives you lots of options that coilers don’t have.

Exactly,those that have never owned one,wouldn't understand............[tonguewink]

They have so many advantages over coils,its a no brainer.

I have driven both extensively,and one leaves the other way behind.[bigwhistle]

[rar110]

You only need EAS if constant clearance isn't good enough [bigwhistle] ...My 1998 coil springs have always been trouble free. [thumbsupbig]

A 2” lift at the push of a button is pretty handy, and driving around town at normal height when extra height is not required. So you get a lift when you need it without cranking suspension arms etc to keep the steering from going out of spec.

So is a 2” drop when going into shopping centre or other covered car park.

Anti body roll (compressor pushes air into one side) to keep the body more level when going around bends is also pretty good.

I got hung up going over a rock on Fraser Island earlier this year. I already did the lift. But as the car detected I was hung up it automatically gave me an extra lift. So could drive away.

The ride is dangerously good. You tend to drive too quick over corrugations, as the EAS just soaks it up.

You don’t get this with coils. I’m not knocking coils. I still have a few too many 110s. But EAS is just better. Air springs are made a bit like tyres except more reliable because they don’t have contact with the road. I note a lot of Defender owners putting after market air springs in the rear so they can manually increase air pressure to keep the body level when carrying a load. Another automatic feature with JLR EAS. No manual adjustment required for different loads.

All of the above is why EAS should be the standard and coils the option in the new Defender.

[scarry]

Well said,That extended off road height is fantastic,allows the long handled shovel just enough room to get in.[biggrin]
and to add,towing heavy loads,just hook it up,and away you go,easy as.
Self levels every time,and handles so well.

In fact a mate of mine has towed a few different huge 3T vans for the last 40 yrs with all sorts of vehicles.

The latest vehicle he has had for the last 4 yrs is an Audi,Q7 i think it is,TDV8, with EAS.He swears never to go back to coils after having the EAS,nothing compares.

[Shoogs]

I enjoyed this tweet about the new Defender pic:
"Put it back in the oven. It’s not done yet." [thumbsupbig]


Here's the full picture - note the date.

146928

well I for one from what I have seen think it looks great and I am really looking forward to it, having owned and driven mainly Defenders but also a few Range Rover and Discovery’s in a lot of the rough parts of the world they have been a great vehicle for me, still own a Camel Trophy 110 and current daily is an SVX, however, a new body, power train (and not overly fussed what that is)and a new level of comfort is something to look forward to in my opinion.
Probably wont buy the first one but won’t be to far behind, supporting the brand that has been a massive part of my life is important to me.

[rick130]

I've always liked the idea of forced articulation with bags and independent suspension too.

[Zeros]

Hopefully we WILL see more on the 27th Dec! ...hopefully they don’t just put it back in the oven...again!! [thumbsupbig]

I can definitely understand the virtues of EAS and to me it makes even more sense on an EV.

Although the simplicity of coils have never let me down, nor have I ever been hung up on a diff...which is all about taking the right the line and placement IMO. The comparison could be made with independent suspension hangers in ruts and also the relative strength of live axle CV’s compared to indepenent CV’s for long term bush use.

If the new Defender truly is heavy duty and comes in a hybrid/EV with a range of over 600km and a reasonable price tag, I would be interested. But I would be weighing all of that up against the potential to convert my classic Defender to EV in the coming few years.

Looking forward to it! It’s definitely more exciting than Santa! 🎅 and only two extra sleeps! (...unless that image was leaked and only meant to come out on the 27th).

[ramblingboy42]

jeez, you blokes ought to apply to be motoring journalists.

so many "ifs"

so much baloney

so much rhubarb

if you keep gesticulating , guessing and throwing ideas around you are bound to reach the ultimate conclusion....so far none of you have.

whats the story about thousands of monkeys on typewriters?

I'm just going to wait until JLR release OFFICIAL , get it , OFFICIAL photos and details of the new vehicle.

I will be 100% correct in every detail at that time.

[Zeros]

jeez, you blokes ought to apply to be motoring journalists.

so many "ifs"

so much baloney

so much rhubarb

if you keep gesticulating , guessing and throwing ideas around you are bound to reach the ultimate conclusion....so far none of you have.

whats the story about thousands of monkeys on typewriters?

I'm just going to wait until JLR release OFFICIAL , get it , OFFICIAL photos and details of the new vehicle.

I will be 100% correct in every detail at that time.


Chicken. [bigrolf]

[blackrangie]

jeez, you blokes ought to apply to be motoring journalists.

so many "ifs"

so much baloney

so much rhubarb

if you keep gesticulating , guessing and throwing ideas around you are bound to reach the ultimate conclusion....so far none of you have.

whats the story about thousands of monkeys on typewriters?

I'm just going to wait until JLR release OFFICIAL , get it , OFFICIAL photos and details of the new vehicle.

I will be 100% correct in every detail at that time.So no one is allowed to speculate based on deductions from current information pre release, wheres the fun in that?

[DiscoMick]

Speculate away I say.

[ramblingboy42]

So no one is allowed to speculate based on deductions from current information pre release, wheres the fun in that?

feel free to speculate.....

but there is no current information pre release.....is there?

when I was a late teen ...vis '70's....I was totally obsessed by cars and bought every Australian publication and many international mags because I wanted to be first to know or to guess what was happening, just like all the guys here doing the same with the Defender.

now I can just wait until it happens.....

[JDNSW]

A sign of maturity - or old age!

[donh54]

A sign of maturity - or old age!

Or of a care factor rapidly approaching zero! [biggrin]

[Zeros]

Waiting is sign of maturity indeed.

And obviously waiting to see what happens is all any of us can do, unless you’re a JLR designer.

But it’s more fun to speculate...

...one more sleep? Or another teaser

[blackrangie]

Here we go a few more articles with good pics, no need to make a new thread every time a news article is released, very impressed about how much the Defender can lift itself, looks like a six inch lift!

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/new-land-rover-defender-to-be-revealed-in-2019-us-sales-start-in-2020/#/10https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181227/478b042defa217cb8e5645070d3aad86.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181227/dc4b95f563c459159e4d908fc1c55257.jpg

[loanrangie]

If this is the confirmed shape I'm glad they kept it boxy like s D3/4 as it's the most practical design LR have done.

[blackrangie]

If this is the confirmed shape I'm glad they kept it boxy like s D3/4 as it's the most practical design LR have done.Shape is confirmed, but its under thick padding and camo so your guess is as good as mine from these pics

[blackrangie]

More picshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181228/9aa2988ca6e1dba473901483c8fde8c6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181228/480d38868a23c651fef63326a19e5568.jpg

[blackrangie]

Is this first Vid of new defender?

YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aeic4ZeCRG8)

[grey_ghost]

So they are only going to sell it to the Yanks and the Canadians. Maybe it won’t even sell in RHD? [emoji6]

[goingbush]

To call that vehicle a Defender is a slap in the face to the Ethos of LandRover .

Its a freaking elitist upmarket piece of ****e . The same as everything else in the JLR lineup , & to a lesser extent the D 3 & D4 .

JLR have completely distanced themselves from any Military / Agricultural / Industrial customers & I'll never buy one. Not even an Electric one.

I just hope Bollinger don't go off on a tangent.

[loanrangie]

Home market is rhd so it will be.

[rick130]

The problem with extending air suspension is that you limit droop travel big time.
You really do rely on TC (or a locker) then as you lift wheels everywhere.

[scarry]

Here we go a few more articles with good pics, no need to make a new thread every time a news article is released, very impressed about how much the Defender can lift itself, looks like a six inch lift!

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/new-land-rover-defender-to-be-revealed-in-2019-us-sales-start-in-2020/#/10https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181227/478b042defa217cb8e5645070d3aad86.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181227/dc4b95f563c459159e4d908fc1c55257.jpg

That could be extended off road height.
The D4 gets up pretty high in extended off road height,until it gets to 8 km/hr,then it drops back to off road height.

You would presume the new defender would have the highest lift of any of LR s models,and the deepest wading depth.

Let’s hope it also has the option for a rear tailgate set up.

Oh,and can be easily fitted with numerous accessories such as bars,etc

[donh54]

So they are only going to sell it to the Yanks and the Canadians. Maybe it won’t even sell in RHD? [emoji6]That video is put out by the US marketing team. Of course they won't mention anywhere else. Surely you realise that the whole world really wants to be American!

[DiscoMick]

I like it.

[grey_ghost]

Hi Don,
Twas said in jest however-it is interesting that the US Land Rover released the video and not the UK?

[Shoogs]

Is this first Vid of new defender?

YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aeic4ZeCRG8)

Looks great, a natural progression I think, leaves to coils to air.

I will be buying one, nearly bought a D5 but happy to wait another year.

[Dervish]

The fake paparazzi drive-by photos I can understand, but these glamour shots of the vehicle with cut up cardboard boxes taped all over it are a bit confusing.

[Zeros]

.zzstill no new info.

No wonder the D5 became a bubble.

Looking forward to seeing it without the camo. The vertical C pillar looks promising in terms of design, but the short rear end is not inspiring. ...strange that there’s no ‘pickup’ version in the USA teaser.

[blackrangie]

The fake paparazzi drive-by photos I can understand, but these glamour shots of the vehicle with cut up cardboard boxes taped all over it are a bit confusing.Or brilliant marketing..

[DiscoMick]

Making us want to see it without the camouflage. It's working.

[rick130]

It's a Defender replacement and yet it has low profile HT tyres ?

Is it wishful thinking it might have 33" tyres as an option like the Wrangler?

It'll be for the latte sippers.

Which reminds me, it's time for my morning piccolo....[bigwhistle]

[blackrangie]

It's a Defender replacement and yet it has low profile HT tyres ?

Is it wishful thinking it might have 33" tyres as an option like the Wrangler?

It'll be for the latte sippers.

Which reminds me, it's time for my morning piccolo....[bigwhistle]Dont look low profile to me in this shot(i seem to recall a few different wheel tyre combos in different spy shots, these ones kinda look like somewhere in the middle between a big walled tyre and a low pro, infact they kinda look like 32's or 33s on an 18inch rim https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181228/7d9a815315a839e3080de34c13b7e771.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181228/53e9a24924e68831df01a16912e98215.jpg