DIY Lower Control Arm Bush Replacement

[Tombie]

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I have created this thread from existing posts in an unrelated thread so that the bush pressing process is easier to find.
The tool Tombie used is a Sykes-Pickavant: Sykes-Pickavant (http://www.sykes-pickavant.com/products/suspension-tools/bush-removal-and-installation/2340)

Cheers,
Scott

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Take a few photos and let us know how it all goes. I'm keen to know how easy (or not) the job becomes with the press, particularly without a hoist.

Cheers,
Scott



Well Scott you asked - I'll hijack this until I build a thread for it...

Parked the D4 in the workshop and lifted to offroad height.

Jacked up PS and placed a stand under chassis and removed tyre.

Painted the bolts/mounts to enable matching of current alignment (should be close enough to drive to aligned without issue)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/576.jpg

3 bolts - shock, front and rear out
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/577.jpg

Pull the arm down out the way (added challenge on mine from armour underneath..
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/578.jpg

Set up press to extract bush using specific tooling
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/579.jpg

Then wind, adjust, wind, adjust etc until the bush is removed
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/580.jpg

[Tombie]

Clean the inside of the arm.

Reset the press to install configuration
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/571.jpg

New bush was sprayed with silicone spray

Wind, adjust, wind, adjust etc until bush is home...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/572.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/573.jpg

Use new bolts, refit shock/bag assembly and torque to 300nm. Fit new concentric bolts and mildly tighten (don't fully tighten yet)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/574.jpg

Refit wheel assembly (repeat this for both sides)

Lower vehicle to standard height and let it settle.

Crawl under and final adjust the concentric bolts using the paint marks and tighten to 275nm.

Test drive!!! Then book an alignment ASAP.

Here's the culprit for my knocking...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/575.jpg
The bush had a tear and was leaking fluid hence no damping.


In summary...

Yes, it can be done with a jack and a pair of chassis stands, and a few tools.

It would be even easier with the above and a set of ramps for the last phase.

It would be fantastically easy on a hoist!!! Which is now being expedited in my case!

[Tombie]

Note: thanks to JC for some advice...

First side took me about 5 hours.
Second side took around 2.5 hours (benefit of hindsight)

[LRD414]

Excellent Tombie, thanks.
My suggestion to the Mods is that once in its own thread, this should be made into a Sticky.
This is a very common issue/maintenance item.

Scott

[Disco-tastic]

Haha Tombie,

I'm just about to post some pics of my effort with the LaserTools 6180 over the weekend. My old bushes looked worse than that...:angel:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/467.jpg (http://s57.photobucket.com/user/lawolski/media/P1030380_zpseffgr0e1.jpg.html)

Cheers

Dan

PS, thanks for the advice on the Lasertools gear. Worked great!

[LRD414]

After setting this up as its own thread with posts moved from an unrelated thread, I thought links to Dan's summary of using a similar tool would be useful too:

LaserTools 6180 > Front Lower Arm Rear Bush Tool - Land Rover | Part No. 6180 | Part of the Other Marques Ball Joints range from Laser Tools (https://www.lasertools.co.uk/product/6180)

Threads:
Front LCA rear bush remover tool for loan! Central Coast NSW (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/240987-front-lca-rear-bush-remover-tool-loan-central-coast-nsw.html)
Dan's D3 (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/230572-dans-d3-4.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/446.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/474.jpg

Cheers,
Scott

[101RRS]

Great Thread - thanks for posting Tombie - very informative.

But does highlight some of the poor design decisions in our cars - why did they design it such that extra special tools are needed so that people buy the complete arms - why not design like most other cars so that the bushings can be replaced with basic suspension type tools not the special stuff.

I replaced the suspension rubbers in my Jag whose struts are like our cars (torsion bars not springs though but struts similar) using general workshop tools - nothing special.

Garry

[kreecha]

Thanks big T

[kreecha]

But does highlight some of the poor design decisions in our cars - why did they design it such that extra special tools are needed so that people buy the complete arms - why not design like most other cars so that the bushings can be replaced with basic suspension type tools not the special stuff.


Garry

Really Garry? If it was like most other cars you'd be driving an MU-X, Everest or 200 series. I've read your posts back to 2013 as you learnt about your LR. I'd rather replace bushes have LLAMS, -20mm on the highway and +50mm offroad. But I guess you don't want that? Maybe just a +2" lifted Pootrol?

Wy take the **** out of LR? It's special for a reason. Reason is; we buy them! :-)

I had to sell my D1 as LR in Darwin wanted $240 an hour to service it. I am sooooo very blessed to have my D3, and I'm happy to replace LCA bushes.

If you want to know why LR had to service my D1, and why I couldn't, please ask; don't assume.

Sincerely,
A very lucky man,
D3 driver :-)

[101RRS]

Sorry - I don't look at my cars through rose coloured glasses like many do - they are simply cars like any others - strengths and weaknesses. The LR has some great tech and great implementation but some woeful stuff as well. To me the bushes in the suspension is one of the latter.

I have to do mine soon and I have bookmarked Tombie's thread on this topic under my RRS section for referrral when I buy my arms complete with bushes and put the arms in - but really I should be able to buy bushes and put them in myself rather than buying the lot.

If people want to put their LRs on a pedestal that is great but I do most of the work on my cars myself so have a good idea on what is good or bad. I have 4 at my place so that says something I guess.

And one again - thanks Tombie.

Cheers

Garry

[LRD414]

I have to do mine soon and I have bookmarked Tombie's thread on this topic under my RRS section for referrral when I buy my arms complete with bushes and put the arms in - but really I should be able to buy bushes and put them in myself rather than buying the lot.

Garry, not sure what you’re meaning .... this thread of Tombie’s is for bush replacement with arms remaining on vehicle, not complete arm replacement? So is the thread I linked that Dan created, just a different tool to replace bushes with arms insitu.

Scott

[shanegtr]

I have to do mine soon and I have bookmarked Tombie's thread on this topic under my RRS section for referrral when I buy my arms complete with bushes and put the arms in - but really I should be able to buy bushes and put them in myself rather than buying the lot.

You can just replace the bushes if you so choose, its not as if they are not available to purchase on their own. As far as I can see theres nothing special about how to replace them in the arms, they can still be pressed out and in again same as any other vehicle on the market.
Yes the design of the bushes as far as service life is concerned is less than ideal

[101RRS]

Garry, not sure what you’re meaning .... this thread of Tombie’s is for bush replacement with arms remaining on vehicle, not complete arm replacement? So is the thread I linked that Dan created, just a different tool to replace bushes with arms insitu.

Scott

Yes exactly.


You can just replace the bushes if you so choose, its not as if they are not available to purchase on their own. As far as I can see theres nothing special about how to replace them in the arms, they can still be pressed out and in again same as any other vehicle on the market.
Yes the design of the bushes as far as service life is concerned is less than ideal

Well I may have misunderstood other threads but I thought that you had to have this very expensive tool to remove and insert the new bushes and that is why everyone is buying complete arms rather than just buying the bushes and changing them over. If I am wrong and they can be replaced using a normal garage press at home then great - I am glad to be proven wrong.

Garry

[DiscoJeffster]

Well I may have misunderstood other threads but I thought that you had to have this very expensive tool to remove and insert the new bushes and that is why everyone is buying complete arms rather than just buying the bushes and changing them over. If I am wrong and they can be replaced using a normal garage press at home then great - I am glad to be proven wrong.

Garry
That seems to me by take on it given nearly £300 for the laser tool which is not as broadly applicable as Tombie’s. That said, there’s nothing special about the tool other than it’s designed for the diameter of the LR bush. Any puller would work that came with the applicable diameter mandrel.
Personally I’ll get some advanced factor arms next time. I might then use some WA peeps tools (please) to replace the bushes on the current arms for next time at mine and their convenience. Rinse repeat. A carton of beer towards the tool cost might be considered a fair exchange?
Anyhow, shocks are my next major “investment” before bushes.

[Disco-tastic]

Yes exactly.



Well I may have misunderstood other threads but I thought that you had to have this very expensive tool to remove and insert the new bushes and that is why everyone is buying complete arms rather than just buying the bushes and changing them over. If I am wrong and they can be replaced using a normal garage press at home then great - I am glad to be proven wrong.

GarryYou can use any press, just means you have to take the lower arms off the vehicle. This includes undoing the ball joint which may involve removal of the half shaft from the hub.

You also need special cupped tools to press the new bush in without damaging it, due to the bush design. You can use other bushes (such as the superpro) which only require a rubber mallet to hammer in, but most people seem to dislike the firmer ride they give.

Hope that helps.

Dan

[101RRS]

Ok thanks for that information seems to clear things up for me. So when I buy new bushes I will book in in advance and get the local suspension shop to press them in for me.

Cheers

Garry

[discorevy]

Ok thanks for that information seems to clear things up for me. So when I buy new bushes I will book in in advance and get the local suspension shop to press them in for me.

Cheers

Garry



And they,ll end up costing you more than if you were to change the complete arms

[101RRS]

Why?

[cjc_td5]

Why?
I believe the consensus is that by the time you pay for new bushes and then labour to press out a install them into the old arms, it is cheaper to just install new arms.

[PerthDisco]

At least in Australia the bolts release. Most in the UK and USA need to be cut out with an angle grinder.

As said previously the leading Indy in WA will only replace the full arm. Told me the bushes don’t last when pressed in. Don’t know why.

[shanegtr]

As said previously the leading Indy in WA will only replace the full arm. Told me the bushes don’t last when pressed in. Don’t know why.
How does he think the bushes got into the replacement arms in the first place?

[PerthDisco]

How does he think the bushes got into the replacement arms in the first place?

Yep my thoughts exactly. Just passing on the intell. Presumably they have done many to have an opinion and dont lack for the tools.

[cjc_td5]

How does he think the bushes got into the replacement arms in the first place?

I would think the comment would come from the perspective that in the factory the bushes would be pressed into the arms in a jig by a robot with a determined force etc. In a workshop using a workshop press, the arm may not be as well supported and would be more susceptible to damage from uneven loading and the force is not as controllable. This may impact on arm durability with multiple bush replacements.

Chris

[DiscoJeffster]

I would suggest the evidence is anecdotal at best, based on some basic analysis which doesn’t take into account the usage of the vehicle that causes the wear. For example, he replaced arms on one car and they lasted, but the ones with replaced bushes didn’t. Turns out the arm replacement car never goes off road and the other spends its days on the corrugations. Something along those lines. Or alternatively the installation method used leads to damage etc.

[p38arover]

I have created this thread from existing posts in an unrelated thread so that the bush pressing process is easier to find.
The tool Tombie used is a Sykes-Pickavant: Sykes-Pickavant (http://www.sykes-pickavant.com/products/suspension-tools/bush-removal-and-installation/2340)

What is the price of the tool?

[Russrobe]

Pretty easy to drop the arms. I removed and refitted mine in 2 hours first and 90 mins 2nd last weekend as was a first attempt(once I figured out the trick to popping the ball joints there went 5 minutes.

If you can have a spare pair of arms to push new bushes in it's nice. Although if you find the ball joints stuffed as well as the 2 bushes, you're probably economically better off buying new arms... Would be a tiny cost saving!$600 For a pair of Advanced Factors HD Meyle arms delivered(think these have Lemforder front bushes)...
$200aud For the bushes alone... Ball joints are 25pounds each plus shipping so another $140 makes $340. $160 difference for already pressed in. Remembering you need a bolt kit which is included in the arms.
Also need to pay for the $400 tool...

[LRD414]

Pretty easy to drop the arms. I removed and refitted mine in 2 hours first and 90 mins 2nd last weekend as was a first attempt(once I figured out the trick to popping the ball joints there went 5 minutes.
So what’s the trick to popping the ball joint?

[shanegtr]

So what’s the trick to popping the ball joint?
I've got a nice big copper gympie which I give a decent whack on the hub in the direction of the arrow in the pic. Ball joint pops straight out with no more stuffing around (at least it did for me[biggrin])
133253

[p38arover]

It wouldn't be cost effective for a workshop to replace the bushes cf. replacing the whole arm.

Maybe a workshop could be a source of some arms if you wanted to prepare some for changeover.

[Disco-tastic]

Don't forget there are different bushes front and rear on the front LCA. Both require different press cups to install.

If you need to replace everything complete arms will be cheaper.

[PerthDisco]

So what’s the trick to popping the ball joint?

I’ve never done it (yet) so defer to Russrobe but the tip on the videos seems to be putting the BJ nut back on just the end of the thread and belting the nut to pop out the BJ.

This is instead of having a splitter tool.

[Russrobe]

I've got a nice big copper gympie which I give a decent whack on the hub in the direction of the arrow in the pic. Ball joint pops straight out with no more stuffing around (at least it did for me[biggrin])
133253Yep a nice big whack in the right spot and it pops out in one hit! Just back the nut off until it's flush so it doesn't fall off. I did have to remove and replace the 32mm hub nut which AF supply in there kit. Attached notes with torque settings.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/220.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/221.jpg

[Russrobe]

Yep a nice big whack in the right spot and it pops out in one hit! Just back the nut off until it's flush so it doesn't fall off. I did have to remove and replace the 32mm hub nut which AF supply in there kit. Attached notes with torque settings.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/220.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/221.jpgBy jacking up the hub to 466mm you set it to normal ride height(make sure you lift off the chassis in normal height so you can do this step) Otherwise you will need a pit to torque the bolts with the car on the ground. Vital to torque the bolts at this height so the control arms are sitting in their driving position or you could destroy your new bushes in no time.

[Russrobe]

By jacking up the hub to 466mm you set it to normal ride height(make sure you lift off the chassis in normal height so you can do this step) Otherwise you will need a pit to torque the bolts with the car on the ground. Vital to torque the bolts at this height so the control arms are sitting in their driving position or you could destroy your new bushes in no time.Also by marking the eccentrics with some black spray paint and a screwdriver to mark the centre you get near on perfect alignment although I'm not sure how the toe ended up being out so far! Wheel alignment required afterwards to check.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/222.jpg

[Russrobe]

Also by marking the eccentrics with some black spray paint and a screwdriver to mark the centre you get near on perfect alignment although I'm not sure how the toe ended up being out so far! Wheel alignment required afterwards to check.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/222.jpgThat note isn't in order for removal though correct order would be.

1.Lift of chassis with car in normal height and lower to jack stands. Then remove underbody plates including plastic one.
2.Remove wheels, knock out hub nut holder and remove 32mm nut, tap in the shaft.
3. Remove shock absorber bolt.
4. Back off nuts on eccentrics and ball joint until flush.
5. Whack ball joint as above until it pops up.
6. Remove eccentrics and drop arms down.
7. Remove ball joint nut and lift out.

[DazzaTD5]

Yes exactly.



Well I may have misunderstood other threads but I thought that you had to have this very expensive tool to remove and insert the new bushes and that is why everyone is buying complete arms rather than just buying the bushes and changing them over. If I am wrong and they can be replaced using a normal garage press at home then great - I am glad to be proven wrong.

Garry

I replace the complete arms on customers vehicles as its quicker than doing the bush, but also the front bush gets done as does the lower ball joint

Regards
Daz

[haydent]

That note isn't in order for removal though correct order would be.

1.Lift of chassis with car in normal height and lower to jack stands. Then remove underbody plates including plastic one.


is this just the front two wheel of the car (by the chassis), also in manual it says to jack from access mode ?

[jwb]

is this just the front two wheel of the car (by the chassis), also in manual it says to jack from access mode ?

Access mode means less pressure in the air strut which is important in fitting the bolt through that bush. I found access mode still had too much pressure to compress the strut and fit the bolt. I needed to deflate strut with the Nanacom then went easily.

[Milton477]

Merry Xmas fellow LR tragics.

Does anyone have a front lower suspension arm bush tool to sell/rent/loan to me?
I have a spare pair of front lower control arms & a set of new Merle bushes which need pressing.

Keep the shiny side up.

[PerthDisco]

The large rear bush is not pressed fully in when you look at an original unit or even the Meyle replacement. I don’t know if it is critical but I made this ring to allow about [emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]mm spacing as per the original.

I’m in Perth unfortunately.

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