3 Zone Climate Control is not fit for purpose for Australian conditions?

[meremortal]

Hi,

I've got an All New Discovery HSE Td6. Long list of issues slowly getting addressed however to keep the thread short I wanted to focus on one issue (with the car that I can't fix) which is the aircon in the second and third row.

Every car I've ever had or been in with Three Zone Climate control or Trizone Climate control (Ford Everest, Ford Territory, Kia Grand Carnival, Volvo XC90 to name a few) give the rear passengers independant air flow control so the driver and passenger in front have control of their airflow and temps, and the passengers in the second row have control of their own airflow and temps. That's my understanding of what 3 zone is (Driver = 1, Front passenger = 2 and the 2nd/3rd row = 3).

The Discovery is what I would call 2.5 Zone. It allows the Front row to control airflow and temps and the second row to control temps but not their own airflow. When the 2nd row adjusts the airflow it adjusts the airflow for the ENTIRE cabin. Added to that the fact there are only tiny vents in the door pillars (yes there are some under the front seat but this is really pointless when it's hot - good for a cold climate not for a hot climate - IN MY OPINION) with no overhead vents or vents in the third row at all.

So if I am comfortable in the front driving then the rear passengers are hot. The rear passengers put up the airflow in the second row which means I am freezing and they are now comfortable.

Am I missing something fundamental here? Is there a way to have the 2nd row passengers have independant airflow from the front. Hope that makes sense.133173133174133175

Has anyone opted for the 4 zone climate control? I've asked my dealer if they have a Discovery with it so I can just see if it's better.

Honestly I'm shocked and dismayed at being sold a 7 seater with the worst aircon in the rear that I've seen in a long time. Especially for the price I paid for the car.

Some more questions...

1. Is there a way to get independant airflow control in the 2nd and 3rd row?
2. Does the 4 zone climate control provide this?
3. Can the 4 zone climate be added now?
4. Is there a third party way of adding better airconditioning for the 2nd and 3rd row?




Land Rover Owner Information (http://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3D/2018/T29858/28030_en_GBR/proc/G1939455)

[Tombie]

Interesting!

Have you got the Sync mode on or off on the touch screen?

[meremortal]

Interesting!

Have you got the Sync mode on or off on the touch screen?

The sync mode only applies to the temperature from the driver side control. If I enable sync I can adjust the temps for the all four of the temp controllers but it doesn't apply to the fan speed. Fan speed is set to permanently SYNCED.

For all intent and purpose the second row fan controller is pointless. If you want more airflow in the back you are actually just turning up the airflow for the entire cabin (not the 2nd/3rd row) so the front row is now freezing so that 2nd and 3rd row are feeling SOME air. If I'm comfortable in the front there isn't enough airflow in the back. The only way to get enough air into the back of the cabin is for me to be getting blasted with cold air.

[Arapiles]

Hi,

I've got an All New Discovery HSE Td6. Long list of issues slowly getting addressed however to keep the thread short I wanted to focus on one issue (with the car that I can't fix) which is the aircon in the second and third row.

.........

4. Is there a third party way of adding better airconditioning for the 2nd and 3rd row?


Sounds odd - the second row can turn up the fans on the entire car?

Edit - I actually queried a review of the D5 that had a photo of the two rear controllers, because they didn't make much sense unless the left and right rear seats had separate controls. Which would've suggested 4 or 5 zone aircon. But if they simply duplicate the front controls, that kind of explains it ...

Edit, edit - might there be a control like there is in the D4 that gives the rear seats their own controls and un-synchronises them with the front? Your car looks to have the same set-up as the HSE Luxury TD6 that CarAdvice tested and that was a 4 zone system.

[meremortal]

Sounds odd - the second row can turn up the fans on the entire car?

Edit - I actually queried a review of the D5 that had a photo of the two rear controllers, because they didn't make much sense unless the left and right rear seats had separate controls. Which would've suggested 4 or 5 zone aircon. But if they simply duplicate the front controls, that kind of explains it ...

Edit, edit - might there be a control like there is in the D4 that gives the rear seats their own controls and un-synchronises them with the front? Your car looks to have the same set-up as the HSE Luxury TD6 that CarAdvice tested and that was a 4 zone system.

Yes the 2nd row controls the fans for the entire car. One fan unit for the entire car. It's all on or all off.

I've queried the dealer, technical staff and sales staff, the "I don't know" is deafening.

I got a response to my query from a Customer Relationship Centre Executive

Dear Lee,

We received your air conditioning query addressed to our Social Media Team, regarding your new Land Rover Discovery HSE.


Regarding your request to adjust the airflow independently between the front and rear zones, if you are trying to increase the air flow from the 2nd row seats, and decrease the airflow in the front seats, unfortunately they are both part of the front zone.


The front seats and 2nd row seats share the same fan unit. If you require further assistance, our best recommendation is to visit your selling dealer who can clarify any concerns with the operation of features in your vehicle.


If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us.



Sincerely,

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's beyond odd...I've never seen it on any car in my life. If you have a fan controller in the 2nd row it's for the second row - not for the first row.

Definitely not what I expected and not befitting a car of this price/practicality.

[veebs]

This all seems uncharacteristically low-tech for Land Rover? The D4 didn't behave like this did it?

I wonder if the customer relations people were confusing 1st/2nd row with 2nd/3rd row? (Which would make more sense to share a fan unit)

[meremortal]

This all seems uncharacteristically low-tech for Land Rover? The D4 didn't behave like this did it?

I wonder if the customer relations people were confusing 1st/2nd row with 2nd/3rd row? (Which would make more sense to share a fan unit)

There are no vents in the third row at all (which is unforgiveable for a car optioned with 7 seats IMO) and only tiny vents in the pillars in the second row (some under the seat but these are all but useless when it's hot). I've shown it to 3 staff at my dealership and they've all shrugged their shoulders sheepishly essentially saying "yes that's normal" but not wanting to be pinned down on it's "unique uselessness".

I've asked about retrofitting the 4 zone system and am awaiting a response.

I was hoping someone on this forum may have had the same issue or have the same model Discovery 5 HSE Td6 as I do and can comment or provide some clues or confirm it's the same for them or not (in which case mine is broken). It's so strange an oversight/function that I can't quite believe it. 2nd and 3rd row aircon is definitely not fit for purpose in this car for Australian temps.

[Arapiles]

This all seems uncharacteristically low-tech for Land Rover? The D4 didn't behave like this did it?


Don't know about D4s without the rear air-con but those like mine that have the third row aircon and the second compressor have a button on the dash that allows you to switch off all the rear air, switch it on but control fan and temperature (it mirrors the driver's setting) or push again and the rear can set their own temperature (+/- what the front has), set their own fan speeds and mix the air between foot and face. It's actually a great system - except that, unlike, say, the Kia Sorento we looked at, the third row can't control their fan speed - and you can imagine how that's playing out with my kids ....

[scarry]

Don't know about D4s without the rear air-con but those like mine that have the third row aircon and the second compressor have a button on the dash that allows you to switch off all the rear air, switch it on but control fan and temperature (it mirrors the driver's setting) or push again and the rear can set their own temperature (+/- what the front has), set their own fan speeds and mix the air between foot and face. It's actually a great system - except that, unlike, say, the Kia Sorento we looked at, the third row can't control their fan speed - and you can imagine how that's playing out with my kids ....

There is only one compressor,there is an extra fan unit with evaporater coil in the left rear of the vehicle.

i must agree,the D4 set up with the 7 seats works very well,even at ambients of 42 degrees.

[Arapiles]

There is only one compressor,there is an extra fan unit with evaporater coil in the left rear of the vehicle.

i must agree,the D4 set up with the 7 seats works very well,even at ambients of 42 degrees.

Ah, my bad. Re efficiency, had the uncommon experience of the child in the third row complaining that they were too cold and had too much air.

[meremortal]

There is only one compressor,there is an extra fan unit with evaporater coil in the left rear of the vehicle.

i must agree,the D4 set up with the 7 seats works very well,even at ambients of 42 degrees.I

I was expecting this level in the D5. I won't rest until I get an answer - if I can't get proper aircon in the 2nd and 3rd row I'll be moving to another car.

[veebs]

Don't know about D4s without the rear air-con but those like mine that have the third row aircon and the second compressor have a button on the dash that allows you to switch off all the rear air, switch it on but control fan and temperature (it mirrors the driver's setting) or push again and the rear can set their own temperature (+/- what the front has), set their own fan speeds and mix the air between foot and face. It's actually a great system - except that, unlike, say, the Kia Sorento we looked at, the third row can't control their fan speed - and you can imagine how that's playing out with my kids ....

So the second setting here sounds like the same thing happening to the OP? Do you need to press a button a second time MM?

Edit: Nevermind, re-googling this, I think you have the equivalent of the D4 without rear air system, albeit with remote controls for the settings. The 4 zone (previously known as 'rear air') looks to include vents in the ceiling, and vents in the 3rd row. I'm guessing that one also includes a fan on the left side of the rear cargo bay to control it all.

Wasn't retrofittable in the D4 days, so I wouldn't hold my breath there.

[meremortal]

So the second setting here sounds like the same thing happening to the OP? Do you need to press a button a second time MM?

Edit: Nevermind, re-googling this, I think you have the equivalent of the D4 without rear air system, albeit with remote controls for the settings. The 4 zone (previously known as 'rear air') looks to include vents in the ceiling, and vents in the 3rd row. I'm guessing that one also includes a fan on the left side of the rear cargo bay to control it all.

Wasn't retrofittable in the D4 days, so I wouldn't hold my breath there.

Well with my Oil Dilution issues and this I've already started looking for a new car :( lost total faith in the Landrover brand.

[veebs]

Given your experience, can't say I blame you really :-(

[Tombie]

First production run of any brand model is never a good idea...

Tends to make people the Beta Testers...

[GP1200]

Just the read the New Discovery 5 brochure again, there are 4 x types of D5 air con options, model dependent or $$$ option. The HSE & HSE LUX do not have the 4 x Zone as standard, it’s a $$$$ option as well, pretty peeved off too, as I would expect the LUX to have it as standard too.

my current D4 HSE has adjustable front and second row air con, second row can adjust fan speed, temp and vents with no impact on the front, the third row just get the vents with no adjustment but get plenty of air.

All i can hope it’s standard on a 2018 HSE LUX build, but I not be holding my breath either.

Jack

[meremortal]

my current D4 HSE has adjustable front and second row air con, second row can adjust fan speed, temp and vents with no impact on the front, the third row just get the vents with no adjustment but get plenty of air.



Jack

This is what I was expecting. :(

[GP1200]

Stupid me thought it would have been standard, to have 4 x different versions of a air con system in the D5 seems ridiculous. The salesman never mentioned and I never noticed.....

till you you brought it up, another lesson learned on how to spec up a D5,
( very deep pockets required when looking at the options list )
Reading the sales brochure,the 3 x Zone clearly says you can control all functions individuality for the front and 2nd row, just no extra vents for the 3rd row. Your air con doesn’t sound right that you can’t control temp from 2nd row without affecting the front. But the little spiel in the brochure does say separate climate controls with the 4 x Zone, and that may be the devil in the detail?


jack

[scarry]

First production run of any brand model is never a good idea...

Tends to make people the Beta Testers...


True,but in this day,and age,it shouldn't be an excuse for poor quality control.

I looked at the D5 options list and it said the 4 zone comes with the sunroof?

I also can't believe you can buy the top of the range HSE,with 7 seats,and it doesn't come with rear air like the D4.

[donh54]

Got a diagnostic tool? Could just be a setting needs changing. Lots of new cars have all sorts of hardware fitted, dealers just enable or disable according to the boxes you tick.

[meremortal]

True,but in this day,and age,it shouldn't be an excuse for poor quality control.

I looked at the D5 options list and it said the 4 zone comes with the sunroof?

I also can't believe you can buy the top of the range HSE,with 7 seats,and it doesn't come with rear air like the D4.

Yeh its woefully bad.


Got a diagnostic tool? Could just be a setting needs changing. Lots of new cars have all sorts of hardware fitted, dealers just enable or disable according to the boxes you tick.

I went into the dealership today (dropping my car off for another update hopefully fix the InControl Apps) and had a look at some other All New Discovery's - they are the same. The aircon fan controller in the middle row controls the air for the entire cabin/front and second row - same as mine. It's a terrible terrible design oversight in my opinion. In hot weather if you want to be comfortable in the 2nd row you need to be freezing in the front row. Forget about the third row comfort - no vents at all.

I'm still looking out for an All New Discovery with the 4 zone aircon option to assuage my curiosity. I told the salesman that if they are going to sell a 7 seater they must out of good conscious strongly recommend the 4 zone upgrade - learn from my mistake and hopefully others don't suffer the same misfortune.

This is a car designed for cold weather - heated seats, heated windscreen, heated steering wheel etc - but not for hot weather - no second fan unit for the second and third rows, inadequate vents in the second row and NONE in the third row.

You will find better (ACTUAL) 3 zone aircon in a $40,000 Kia Grand Carnival or a $60,000 Ford Everest.

[cripesamighty]

"You will find better (ACTUAL) 3 zone aircon in a $40,000 Kia Grand Carnival or a $60,000 Ford Everest."

Yep, heard that exact same thing many times about the accessories packages (ie expensive) on many Land Rovers. Recently some friends of mine went looking at D5's to replace their current D4 and they loved the D5. What they didn't love was the price fully fitted out the way they wanted it (including 4 zone aircon) as it was being bought through work. Ended up doing a cost benefit analysis and bought a Kia instead as they will never use the D5's offroad ability.

They were the ones who told me about the air con (your exact problem) and if I ever buy a D5 in the future, it will definitely have the full package. Land Rover Australia really needs it's butt kicked for this one.

[Tombie]

And that’s who the problem is LRA not LR itself.

LRA builds its options lists for our market, then screws the punters for everything it can [emoji48]

Dealers can only work with what’s offered here which is sometimes very poor.

[veebs]

I read somewhere the current restrictions on importing new private vehicles into Australia were going to be relaxed in the future. I doubt that will affect the majority of buyers here, but for the real fanatics/enthusiasts, it would open up a much wider market from which to find the perfect spec car.
If LRA insists on putting massive premiums on the option list, we may be able to simply buy direct from the UK, Japan, SE Aisa, etc. And with the new TFT based dashboards, I'm sure the car can be 'australianised' (km/hr instead of mph speedo) without too much hassle.

Won't help you with your climate control though :(

[Bigbjorn]

Well, haven't we turned into a tasty mob of wimps over the last 30 or so years. whinging and moaning about the quality of air conditioning in the third row of seats. No so long ago we would have been saying "Wow, that car has air conditioning, and in a 4WD too."

Try doing the Diamantina mail run in high summer in an overloaded overheating 4 ton Dodge or Bedford. We used to think we were flash if we had a dashboard fan. Heater/demister for below zero Channel Country winter mornings? I wish. Very few of those about until they were mandated by the ADR's.

[meremortal]

Well, haven't we turned into a tasty mob of wimps over the last 30 or so years. whinging and moaning about the quality of air conditioning in the third row of seats. No so long ago we would have been saying "Wow, that car has air conditioning, and in a 4WD too."

Try doing the Diamantina mail run in high summer in an overloaded overheating 4 ton Dodge or Bedford. We used to think we were flash if we had a dashboard fan. Heater/demister for below zero Channel Country winter mornings? I wish. Very few of those about until they were mandated by the ADR's.

It's about expectations and misleading product description's. Stating that a car has a 3 zone climate control when it actually ISN'T is false and misleading. When you pay $133,000 for a car with the "cache" of Landrover you expect a certain level of integrity which in the case of the climate system has been seriously marred.

I'd be complaining about this issue if it were in a $30,000 Isuzu as well (although I'd be less upset because of the hit to my hip pocket) - it's the principle of basing a decision on a product description that isn't fit for purpose.

Like buying a 6 cylinder car with only 5. You'd be angry.

[Bigbjorn]

It's about expectations and misleading product description's. Stating that a car has a 3 zone climate control when it actually ISN'T is false and misleading. When you pay $133,000 for a car with the "cache" of Landrover you expect a certain level of integrity which in the case of the climate system has been seriously marred.

I'd be complaining about this issue if it were in a $30,000 Isuzu as well (although I'd be less upset because of the hit to my hip pocket) - it's the principle of basing a decision on a product description that isn't fit for purpose.

Like buying a 6 cylinder car with only 5. You'd be angry.

If the goods are not fit for purpose then you can proceed against the vendor under The Sale of Goods Act.

[meremortal]

If the goods are not fit for purpose then you can proceed against the vendor under The Sale of Goods Act.

I know and I've considered it - still may if these last issues aren't fixed to my satisfaction. However these things take time and I already have a lot of work on at the moment. I don't need the headache/time of a minor legal battle right now (and finding a new car - potentially jumping out of the frying pan into the fire) so for now I've decided to see how they go repairing the other problems and then just resolving to live with the ****ty aircon, aiming to let go of the car after 3 or 4 years rather than enjoying it for 6 plus and making it a member of the family.

Landrover have done themselves out of a lifelong customer with me - I was all ready to love this car for years and then upgrade to a Range Rover Sport or Vogue in years to come but such is life.

I will be writing a letter to Landrover letting them know of my discontent however that's more in the hope they address this issue for future models than getting my money back or compensation. I just want them to know.

[Arapiles]

I read somewhere the current restrictions on importing new private vehicles into Australia were going to be relaxed in the future. I doubt that will affect the majority of buyers here, but for the real fanatics/enthusiasts, it would open up a much wider market from which to find the perfect spec car.
If LRA insists on putting massive premiums on the option list, we may be able to simply buy direct from the UK, Japan, SE Aisa, etc. And with the new TFT based dashboards, I'm sure the car can be 'australianised' (km/hr instead of mph speedo) without too much hassle.

Won't help you with your climate control though :(

Unfortunately that proposal was dropped after representations to the Government from ..... the motor industry. What a surprise.

Government changes direction on private ‘parallel’ import plan (http://www.caradvice.com.au/575807/government-changes-direction-on-private-parallel-import-plan)

[Arapiles]

Well, haven't we turned into a tasty mob of wimps over the last 30 or so years. whinging and moaning about the quality of air conditioning in the third row of seats. No so long ago we would have been saying "Wow, that car has air conditioning, and in a 4WD too."

Try doing the Diamantina mail run in high summer in an overloaded overheating 4 ton Dodge or Bedford. We used to think we were flash if we had a dashboard fan. Heater/demister for below zero Channel Country winter mornings? I wish. Very few of those about until they were mandated by the ADR's.

Yes, right ... the point here is that MM paid for a vehicle with certain features or functions that in point of fact it doesn't have. In the old days were people happy to pay for things that they didn't actually receive?

[Bigbjorn]

Yes, right ... the point here is that MM paid for a vehicle with certain features or functions that in point of fact it doesn't have. In the old days were people happy to pay for things that they didn't actually receive?


Perhaps he should have checked and not accepted delivery until the system was rectified. As I said, he can take action for recompense under The Sale of Goods Act. Do not use The Motor Dealers Act. This only gives a slap on the wrist and dealers laugh at it.

[donh54]

And that’s who the problem is LRA not LR itself.

LRA builds its options lists for our market, then screws the punters for everything it can [emoji48]

Dealers can only work with what’s offered here which is sometimes very poor.

To my way of thinking, any vehicle bound for Oz would have the full suite of a/c options already in place, with the dealer able to turn on or off certain features as required.
There is a thread here by a member who adds some of the missing functionality to d3/4/RR/RRS. In many cases they only need configuration and/or connecting.
Is there anywhere in the sales literature that mentions the abilities and/or compromises of the different a/c options? If not, I would be having a very serious discussion with the dealer and demanding (not asking) for some action. Point out the fact that you will proceed under the Sale of Goods Act if no satisfactory conclusion can be reached.

[veebs]

To my way of thinking, any vehicle bound for Oz would have the full suite of a/c options already in place, with the dealer able to turn on or off certain features as required.
There is a thread here by a member who adds some of the missing functionality to d3/4/RR/RRS. In many cases they only need configuration and/or connecting.
Is there anywhere in the sales literature that mentions the abilities and/or compromises of the different a/c options? If not, I would be having a very serious discussion with the dealer and demanding (not asking) for some action. Point out the fact that you will proceed under the Sale of Goods Act if no satisfactory conclusion can be reached.

This thread is essentially pointing out the (vast) difference between 3 and 4 zone climate in the D5, with the latter having extra vents and a second fan. Hardware then, so not easily switched on/off though software, or retrofitted.

There is some discussion around retrofitting similar functionality to the D4, with the general consensus being: Don't. If it's important to you, buy one with it already fitted. I doubt the D5 will be any different, given the amount of extra 'stuff' required to make it all work.

I will say, I don't have rear air, but i also don't go wanting for cooling power. I barely use row 3 though...

[Tombie]

So I went and had another look at a D5... ironically here in Thailand....

The standard air con does work sufficiently - you just need to close the front vents off a little to stem the flow at high fan speeds.

It also cooled the cabin quite quickly - noting the one here was tinted so the cabin was easier to keep cool.

So it is fit for its purpose - those wanting the additional cooling power should consider the 4 zone upgrade (which we have in the D4)

[Disco-tastic]

To clarify the D3/4 system, the base system has front vents and vents in the rear of the centre console, and I believe some foot vents under the front seats. These all share the same fan and condenser.

Adding rear aircon gives roof mounted vents and controls to the second row, and pillar mounted vents to the 3rd. Can be synced with the main controls or controlled independently from the roof controls in the second row for temp and fan speed. Has a separate fan motor and condenser in the left rear quarter panel.

In regards to the OP, in my experience a "zone" is somewhere which the temperature can be individually set, not necessarily the fan speed. If the rear seats can determine their own temp that could be considered a zone, if if there's only one fan unit for the entire vehicle.

That said my experience is limited to my D3 and some other cars that cost far less than $130k.

[scarry]

To clarify the D3/4 system, the base system has front vents and vents in the rear of the centre console, and I believe some foot vents under the front seats. These all share the same fan and condenser.

Adding rear aircon gives roof mounted vents and controls to the second row, and pillar mounted vents to the 3rd. Can be synced with the main controls or controlled independently from the roof controls in the second row for temp and fan speed. Has a separate fan motor and condenser in the left rear quarter panel.

In regards to the OP, in my experience a "zone" is somewhere which the temperature can be individually set, not necessarily the fan speed. If the rear seats can determine their own temp that could be considered a zone, if if there's only one fan unit for the entire vehicle.

That said my experience is limited to my D3 and some other cars that cost far less than $130k.

Evaporater

I wouldn't call the D4 system with rear air 4 zone.
It has two front zones,one left,one right,and a rear zone.

There is only one temperature control for the complete rear area.

Does the D5 have four areas that can be controlled at different temperatures?

Going on what the OP has said,his doesn't appear to be three zone,if it only has front controls?

Unless i am missing something

[Disco-tastic]

Evaporater

I wouldn't call the D4 system with rear air 4 zone.
It has two front zones,one left,one right,and a rear zone.

And it works very well.I didn't call it a 4 zone. Its a sort of 3 zone as you say. But thanks for the correction on the evaporator :)

[scarry]

I didn't call it a 4 zone. Its a sort of 3 zone as you say. But thanks for the correction on the evaporator :)

Just edited my post...

Actually it was Tombie that called the D3/4 with rear air 4 zone.

[Tombie]

The D3/4 with dual AC feeds..

LF
RF
C
Rear

The controls in the middle control the roof above row 2 (zone 3) and the rear row (zone 4)

Zone 3 still gets air from zone 1/2 also..

Confusing Hey [emoji48]