Series 2A Radiator

[Archangel007]

Hi Gang,

We are still chasing a Series 2A radiator for The Camel. The original one he came with was for a LX Torana which I am not keen on using again as I doubt it would have enough thermal rejection to keep Camel cool whilst doing slow stuff and towing being only a 2-core.

I have tried twice now to buy an aluminium radiator off eBay but twice now they have sent me one for a Series III even though they state it was for a Series 2/2A (beware here people, different vendor on eBay but same Chinese company purporting to have the right radiators but they don't!)...

Because of the Holden 202 on the Camel I really want to put in a 3/4-core aluminium jobby with thermo fan. Has anyone out there in Land Rover land gone down this route and if so can you give me a lead on where you got it???

Any help would be appreciated, its the last link in the chain and we are getting a bit desperate!!

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

P.S. For those of you who haven't visited The Camel build (what, you're kidding right!!! [bigwhistle]) its in the Projects and Tutorials section here: https://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-and-tutorials/239684-plugger-camel.html

[russellrovers]

Hi Gang,

We are still chasing a Series 2A radiator for The Camel. The original one he came with was for a LX Torana which I am not keen on using again as I doubt it would have enough thermal rejection to keep Camel cool whilst doing slow stuff and towing being only a 2-core.

I have tried twice now to buy an aluminium radiator off eBay but twice now they have sent me one for a Series III even though they state it was for a Series 2/2A (beware here people, different vendor on eBay but same Chinese company purporting to have the right radiators but they don't!)...

Because of the Holden 202 on the Camel I really want to put in a 3/4-core aluminium jobby with thermo fan. Has anyone out there in Land Rover land gone down this route and if so can you give me a lead on where you got it???

Any help would be appreciated, its the last link in the chain and we are getting a bit desperate!!

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

P.S. For those of you who haven't visited The Camel build (what, you're kidding right!!! [bigwhistle]) its in the Projects and Tutorials section here: Plugger and The Camel (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-and-tutorials/239684-plugger-camel.html)hi ring me will see what i can do jim

[mick88]

Tricky, have you looked into a heavier duty version of what you already have?
My daily driver has a high capacity Torana radiator in it.

Cheers, Mick.

[OneOff]

Red Devil??
The guy at Labrador built me what I needed for not much more than a reco one, seemed to know his stuff ....

[ian4002000]

I thought I saw on Ebay an aluminium radiator for a series vehicle to suit a holden 6 with the correct outlet sizes and ready to fit straight in.
What is the difference between a 11a and 3 radiator ? that a drill and hammer cant fix ?

Ian
Bittern

[JDNSW]

As far as I know the radiators are interchangeable (for same engine), but the 2a has a rectangular section top tank with a flat top and a large filler cap, where the S3 has a round section top tank. The attachment for the shroud is a bit different as well.

[goingbush]

The series 2 and 3 radiators are definitely interchangable, as noted JD described Tank & cap shape & size is the only difference, If the OP finds the S3 radiator not fitting its because the original mounting has been altered to suit the conversion in the past.

[Archangel007]

The alloy ones on eBay all seem to be a different size to the one I have Mick.....

Maybe a custom rad is in the only way to go.

Cheers,
Tricky



Tricky, have you looked into a heavier duty version of what you already have?
My daily driver has a high capacity Torana radiator in it.

Cheers, Mick.

[mick88]

I believe the square top 2A radiator tanks have a tendency to distort if you up the pressure, so best stick with a standard cap rather than going to 13lb for you Holden motor.

Cheers, Mick.

[Archangel007]

As far as I know the radiators are interchangeable (for same engine), but the 2a has a rectangular section top tank with a flat top and a large filler cap, where the S3 has a round section top tank. The attachment for the shroud is a bit different as well.


The series 2 and 3 radiators are definitely interchangable, as noted JD described Tank & cap shape & size is the only difference, If the OP finds the S3 radiator not fitting its because the original mounting has been altered to suit the conversion in the past.

This is the issue I have....

Both the S2A/S3 alloy rads I purchased off eBay were 50mm too tall. For Camel (and every other Series Land Rover I take it), the front radiator support panel/slam panel sits on three brackets welded to the front crossmember and slightly in front on the crossmember. This then puts the rad directly on top of the front crossmember which restricts the height of the radiator to exactly 17" or 430mm high including tanks. The rads I purchased off eBay were 480mm high! Unless Camel is different to all other Landies out there this vertical dimension is fixed and confined by the front panel at the top and the crossmember underneath. Likewise the width of the rad is fixed at 20", or just over 500mm...

Am I missing something here??? The original owner of Camel, farmer Gill, pushed the front radiator support panel/slam panel forward 50-60mm to allow for the LX Torana radiator forward of the crossmember. However, the bonnet did not sit on top of the front panel as intended (refer to attached pic...)
133279

133280

133281

If you look closely in the last photo of Plugger you can see the rad behind the front panel with the bonnet sitting on top of it. This is the 2-core LX Torana rad that came with it. Putting the front panel back to its original position - 50mm rearward - positions the radiator on top of the front crossmember - am I right here?? Nothing I have purchased thus far off eBay has come close to fitting - either I am wrong or they are advertising falsely! Compounding the issue further is that the rad can't go rearward any further than its original position as the water pump and pulley is in close proximity!

Just got a quote through this morning - a custom rad to suit is going to run me $1,250!!! [bawl] :censored:

If someone has an original radiator can they send me the outside dimensions, or check them with the ones I have provided above.

Thanks all,
Tricky

[goingbush]

I bought an Alloy Series 3 radiator from eBay for my Lightweight . Fitting wise is identical to the blocked series 3 Radiator I took out . Its a quality item.

No longer need it as I'm converting to Electric

On both series 2 & 3 the radiator sits behind and below the crossmember, not on top of it .
On the Holden conversions a L piece usually gets cut from the crossmember , inverted and welded back to allow original radiator - theres your problem

[rangieman]

I bought an Alloy Series 3 radiator from eBay for my Lightweight . Fitting wise is identical to the blocked series 3 Radiator I took out . Its a quality item.

No longer need it as I'm converting to Electric

On both series 2 & 3 the radiator sits behind and below the crossmember, not on top of it .
On the Holden conversions a L piece usually gets cut from the crossmember , inverted and welded back to allow original radiator - theres your problem
Im guessing this is the cause as in his pics in the build thread you can not see that the chassis has been modified to suit the normal Gm fitment[bigwhistle]

[Archangel007]

Hmmmm,

I think we have found the problem......

Bugger!



I bought an Alloy Series 3 radiator from eBay for my Lightweight . Fitting wise is identical to the blocked series 3 Radiator I took out . Its a quality item.

No longer need it as I'm converting to Electric

On both series 2 & 3 the radiator sits behind and below the crossmember, not on top of it .
On the Holden conversions a L piece usually gets cut from the crossmember , inverted and welded back to allow original radiator - theres your problem


Im guessing this is the cause as in his pics in the build thread you can not see that the chassis has been modified to suit the normal Gm fitment[bigwhistle]

[67hardtop]

So it looks like ur front crossmember hasnt been cut up to fit the radiator. Thats good in a lot of ways. Wish mine hadnt been cut.

Cheers Rod

[Archangel007]

Why Rod??


Hmmmm,

I think we have found the problem......

Bugger!

[rangieman]

Why Rod??
It is mainly for the majority of rivet counters that want their cars standard[bigwhistle].
But in saying that alot of conversions were home jobs and the welding was not pretty [wink11]

[Archangel007]

Ahhh, gotcha Chris!! [wink11]

I will just have to make sure that the workmanship won't be an issue!

Cheers,
Tricky



It is mainly for the majority of rivet counters that want their cars standard[bigwhistle].
But in saying that alot of conversions were home jobs and the welding was not pretty [wink11]

[67hardtop]

As rangieman has said bad welding. Unable to use a crank handle etc. Motor is always too high and the crank doesnt line up with the hole in the front xmember anyway. It just looks dodgy IMHO.

Cheers Rod

[JDNSW]

All Series radiators (except Stage 1) are behind the front crossmember, accounting for the problem with height. The six cylinder conversion on Camel has pushed the radiator further forward. The radiator mount allows a space of about 120mm between the grille and the radiator core, a little more than the thickness of the radiator.

[mick88]

As rangieman has said bad welding. Unable to use a crank handle etc. Motor is always too high and the crank doesnt line up with the hole in the front xmember anyway. It just looks dodgy IMHO.

Cheers Rod

Easy enough to repair the cross member back to standard Rod, it will just mean a different choice of radiator.
With a bit of "jigging and tweeking" of the bolt on engine mounts you can drop the Holden six down to line up with the portal in the front cross member too.

Cheers, Mick.

[Chops]

Having looked up online radiators, I'm wondering which is best,,, alloy core or copper core?

Even though I've had mine refurbished, there still seems to be a leak, although I have not been able to pressure test it yet, so unsure of the actual cause, but I may need to get a new one.
Obviously I would prefer original, but maybe for our heat here, an alloy one could be better (??).

All experience/guidance appreciated.

Cheers Chops

[Archangel007]

Aluminium has a lot better thermal conductivity than copper Chops.

I would go with aluminium!

Cheers,
Tricky


Having looked up online radiators, I'm wondering which is best,,, alloy core or copper core?

Even though I've had mine refurbished, there still seems to be a leak, although I have not been able to pressure test it yet, so unsure of the actual cause, but I may need to get a new one.
Obviously I would prefer original, but maybe for our heat here, an alloy one could be better (??).

All experience/guidance appreciated.

Cheers Chops

[JDNSW]

Aluminium has a lot better thermal conductivity than copper Chops.

I would go with aluminium!

Cheers,
Tricky

Sorry, copper has almost double the thermal conductivity of aluminium - ~400 compared to 237 ((for practical alloys around 100) W/mK. The major reasons for using aluminium are weight and cost. For effectiveness the only things better than copper are probably gold or possibly silver!

John

[Archangel007]

Sorry Chops I got that round the wrong way (can't believe I posted that without proof reading it first...!)

Yes, John is correct, and what I meant to say was the thermal conductivity of copper is far better than aluminium, but cost of unit item is more excessive with copper as John has also stated due to raw materials cost.

Cheers,
Tricky

[goingbush]

Why does aluminium conduct heat away much faster than copper then ??

Heat up an aluminium tube to 150c and its cool to touch in about 30 seconds, Heat up a copper pipe and it will burn you minutes later.

All I know is the new alloy core radiator cooled my Series 3 waaaay better than either on my copper core radiators
( granted not a fair comparison because one was blocked and one had a leak)

[mick88]

The trouble with a lot of the brass radiators we get now is they are made from recycled metals and have impurities in them which are more prone to corroding.
Also the tanks seem to eventually develop leaks due to fine cracks on corners where they are stamped out.

If you can source a reasonable old original and get a good repair job, I reckon it's the best way to go.
They shouldn't run hot if the system is clean and everything is functioning properly, ie. water pump, correct thermostat, cowling, cap, etc..
Maybe a good quality anti freeze, anti boil too coolant too.


The local radiator repair guy told me an aluminium radiator is approx. 25% better at dispersing heat, so is this incorrect?

Cheers, Mick.

[mick88]

Having looked up online radiators, I'm wondering which is best,,, alloy core or copper core?

Even though I've had mine refurbished, there still seems to be a leak, although I have not been able to pressure test it yet, so unsure of the actual cause, but I may need to get a new one.
Obviously I would prefer original, but maybe for our heat here, an alloy one could be better (??).

All experience/guidance appreciated.

Cheers Chops

It shouldn't run hot Chops, unless it has an issue.
The wide lights with the series three type radiator support panel allow a greater air flow into the engine bay too.

Cheers, Mick.

[JDNSW]

As above - Series Landrovers are not prone to overheating unless there is something wrong or when used at high power when stationary or or moving slowly in very hot weather. Even heavy pulling in loose sand in desert conditions should not result in overheating, in my experience.

The "something wrong" will be usually one (or more) of:-

Shroud missing; radiator blocked either internally or externally; coolant leak; slipping fanbelt; spark retarded or advance not working; incorrect valve timing; pressure not maintained, although normal operating temperature is below boiling at STP, this will result in coolant loss; rarely a faulty or missing thermostat; collapsed radiator hose.

[B.S.F.]

Flat topped radiators tend to last longer if you don't sit or lean on them while working in the engine bay.
.W.

[Chops]

Thanks guys, looks like I've got some investigating to do very soon.
Right now as it stands, I'm not overly happy to drive her up to Corowa, let alone Cooma the week after [bighmmm] So I'd best get her sorted.

[Archangel007]

The trouble with a lot of the brass radiators we get now is they are made from recycled metals and have impurities in them which are more prone to corroding.
Also the tanks seem to eventually develop leaks due to fine cracks on corners where they are stamped out.

If you can source a reasonable old original and get a good repair job, I reckon it's the best way to go.
They shouldn't run hot if the system is clean and everything is functioning properly, ie. water pump, correct thermostat, cowling, cap, etc..
Maybe a good quality anti freeze, anti boil too coolant too.


The local radiator repair guy told me an aluminium radiator is approx. 25% better at dispersing heat, so is this incorrect?

Cheers, Mick.


Mick,

Simply put copper has a higher thermal conductivity, and therefore is superior to aluminium in processor cooling. Copper is better at conducting heat than aluminium, but aluminium is able to radiate the heat into the air (or water) better than copper because of its lower density. Copper 'hangs on' to the heat longer due to its higher density but can absord more heat due to the density as well, but is not as good at getting rid of it (heat rejection). Aluminium is cheaper to manufacture and easier to extrude making it cheaper for radiators/heat exchnagers etc. I would go with aluminium if you are buying a new rad...

Cheers,
Tricky

[JDNSW]

Particularly for a Series Landrover, which is a working vehicle, expected to be used on rough roads and in rough conditions, thermal performance is not necessarily the only consideration.

Also important is the physical strength of the core and its ability to withstand vibration, its ability to withstand cleaning grass seeds and other chaff from the fins, and its corrosion resistance. For all of these, copper would seem preferable to alumimium.

[UncleHo]

G'day Folks
Seasons Greetings to All.

One reason for Holden conversions running hot is lack of sump capacity as the oil heats up and that in turn heats the water, when we were doing conversions in the 1960's overheating on long runs at highway speeds was a problem,my mate and I were standing road side with the bonnet up,letting the vehicle cool when a farmer stooped,"got a hot Holden in it?" Was his first words, come and look what I did to mine to keep it cool,he pointed under the vehicle and it had a very large sump,I joined the EH & HD together,and there it was this large sump,we turned around and boiled our way home and next week went sump hunting at the wreckers,once welded up with baffles in it,problem solved,it did many miles but he eventually killed it and bought a G60 Nissan Patrol,and It rode like a Dray!!!!! I kept my FC wagon.

cheers