What would you buy?

[Stinkler]

Loving this place, so much interesting reading about the land of the Defender!

I'm very close to getting myself a 130. Going to be a farm truck, boat hauler, camping and building materials collecting vehicle, so looking at a flat tray as opposed to ute. Prefer Td5 or Puma simply due to age and luxuries.

I'm no amazing mechanic but handy with tools and done up a couple of cars in my time, so may do hands on work if needed.

Way I see it is I have three options.

1.budget buy, $15-20k, high miles Td5 with various additions, well loved and will be demanding of attention over the years.

2. Mid rang $25-30k on Td5 but around 2004 less miles, nearer original style.

3 go silly and blow $50k plus on a kitted Puma that ticks all the boxes.

I could do a lot with that extra $20-30k, nicer boat for a start! I know it just comes down to budget, but what would you buy and why?

(1st world problems?)

[Wicks89]

6 speed puma sounds pretty good for towing ay?

Threads like these litter this forum. General consensus on here is to avoid dodgy high km examples.

I went for a dodgy high km 130 td5. Served me very faithfully, but I would say creature comforts we're well well down.

[Stinkler]

Yeah guess it's been a very common topic, have read heaps of threads here, but was more interested in views if you had a choice rather than limited by budget.

I get confused too by what people think is high mileage? Guess it's more to do with types of miles and work done than just s number. But is 250k a lot for a 15yo car or just average? People word stuff in adds to suit their sale for sure.

I'lI keep sifting threads and learning, good to research as much as possible first.

[timax]

Option 1....you will become a mechanic
Option 3....you will need a mechanic
So id go option 2.

A cheap TD5 will become an expensive one to get right and the Puma in my opinion just doesnt seem to be built as well as a TD5. Steel panels more rust prone but better for small dents,2.2 looks way more complex under the hood to me also.
A latter TD5 that has been looked after is the one id want but id be putting the Puma seats in it.

[Stinkler]

Yeah good clear thoughts there, thanks. Cheers

[Zeros]

Yeah good clear thoughts there, thanks. Cheers

Ha! Option 2 will need a mechanic too. Tell a vehicle that doesn't and...

The more complex Puma is actually no more complex than most (and less so than many) newer vehicles. It's also quieter and more refined on the road than tdi or td5.

Kms all depends on where, how, it's been driven and how well it's been serviced. Sounds obvious, but you can't go on kms alone.

My old tdi has done over 300k in very harsh environments, but has been very well serviced and I would trust it to take me anywhere. But, it's loud, hot and rattly. ...As others are saying, an unknown quantity tdi could take a lot of work before you are confident. As could a td5, although I dont own one.

My puma with 75k is quieter, smoother, more powerful, more refined, but more complex mechanically. Though so are all newer, more refined, quieter vehicles. This means it has ABS, traction control, etc and theoretically more to go wrong over time. It's got aircon, better seats, better brakes. But slightly worse fuel economy, a potential weakness in the transfer case and the engine is more sensitive to dirty fuel. No doubt in time it too will need a mechanic!

However it's only ever the thing that goes wrong at the time that stops you...not all the things that might go wrong.

If if you have the budget get a puma. If you haven't, or you love working on old vehicles get a tdi. A td5 could also be a good choice, but it still has a computer.

Have you test driven them all? Which one feels right to you...remember, any Defender is a labour of love - and that means you have to love it!

[Stinkler]

More good points indeed.

I like the ease with which the Pumas drive, much cruisier for the driver, which would be great as my wife will need to be able to handle it. At the moment she's not good with manual and is the one more worried about budget! I reckon her life would be WAY easier in a Puma. I'd gladly spend the dosh for the Puma, but would be more than happy driving an older truck style ride.

We'll be in colder climate, so heating more relevant than cooling to be honest. Must say added safety like ABS (a must really and some Td5 have it yeah) and traction control (could be handy in black ice)

Seems a few cars have upgraded their power too with a tune and bigger turbo. Am dubious how well this goes on an older (higher kms) engine? Guess it's down to the mechanic?

All good food for thought indeed. Definitely seems a well cared for and logged unit is a must.

I'm cool with the long term love/commitment vibe, been married almost 30 years, if I can do that I can handle a Defender!

[timax]

I have a 2001 TD5 and it has traction control and ABS.
6 speed in the Puma will see you changing gear too often if your in the city. Heavy clutch can be fixed by a booster. The interior is much nicer than the earlier cars also.

[rutmutt]

Having owned both a 99 TD5 defender and a 2013 TD4 (2.2) Defender, you cannot compare the driving experience.

I used to call my TD5 Fergie, it drove like a ferguson tractor. Big, slow and you'll need a packed lunch between gear changes. My wife did not think much of it.
The Puma is much more refined, but they are known for a wicked backlash through the gear changes. This is my wife's Daily driver.

Have had both ECU reflashed. And what a difference that makes. This is the number 1 thing i recommend to anyone.

Ultimately, If had to choose. Well.. i sold the TD5 a few years ago. And have taken the puma to Cape York and the Simpson, and will be embarking on another Simpson run through to the Kimberleys in a few months.

[DiscoMick]

I bought a Puma. I could have bought a Td5 kitted out to tour the world for less money, but it would have needed more attention and not been as good to drive.
It really depends on if you just want a rough hack to bash about or something much nicer to go driving in.

[Zeros]

I have a 2001 TD5 and it has traction control and ABS.
6 speed in the Puma will see you changing gear too often if your in the city. Heavy clutch can be fixed by a booster. The interior is much nicer than the earlier cars also.

Gear changes are not all that different between Tdi 5 and Puma 6 IMO. 1st in Puma is marginally shorter. ...6th is an overdrive really, I never use it under 100km/hr.
Puma is definitely more relaxed on a long journey that a 5 speed.

[rar110]

I test drove a Puma in 2014 when looking to upgrade my Perentie wagon. The only thing to impress me was the interior incl the AC. The 6 speed annoyed me, especially for city driving. I thought the power was under whelming.
I also drove a late td5. Interior not as good, a bit more noisy, I didn’t feel a big power difference between the two. It was a lot better value at the time.
I didn’t consider either worth the money for an “upgrade”. Clearly plenty of others rate both.
If I had to pick from you’re options I would go no 2 and see how you like it. Upgrade later if you wanted to.

[scrambler]

Everyone has their own equation. I preferred to get the oldest car that would do the job: I worry less about damage and even less about repairs. I "repaired" the rear lights with cheap trailer lights, happily ignore the cargo area leaking in heavy rain. The bullbar is rusty (so I know its steel). Its a diesel with working AC: a 1992 200TDi Defender. I've probably got another 5 years before it needs the engine rebuilt, and I should probably get the paint redone some time...

The price I pay is slower towing and louder talking. It's worth every cent ... I save. Thats before fuel bills: better fuel economy than the Pumas!

FWIW its the newest Landie I've owned but far from the only. A V8 Series III and a V8 County before it, then a short diversion to a Pajero before returning to the one true 4WD religion (cough).

[Stinkler]

Lots of very good ideas to mull over indeed.

Thanks all for input, experience says a heap for sure.

[Pickles2]

Our Puma cruises along nicely at 60kph in the suburbs, of course if that speed is not constant then 4th & and 5th come into play, but on long distance work the 6th gear is simply superb, a major plus for the Puma IMHO, plus of course ya've got a reasonable A.C. system.
Pickles.

[Zeros]

Puma cruising speed gear ratios IMO.
3rd at 50
4th at 60
5th at 80
6th 100kmhr +
Perfect.

[Stinkler]

What are thoughts on this rig as an option 1? Seems to have had heaps of stuff done to it, lots of the stuff I read is good, like ecu upgrade, Salisbury diff, etc etc.

What would be main concern here?

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/Land-Rover-Defender-1999/SSE-AD-5138896)

Or this for option 2? Far less options upgraded but looks good solid original unit. Would I need to spend on remap, diff, etc?

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2005/OAG-AD-15339197)

[Ccg130]

Go option 3 for 5 yrs my 98' tdi 130 has been fun and capable but noisy uncomfortable and not safe but requires constant work and ebay gets a thrashing for spares

[ntguy]

Another option

Buy a flogged out 130 TDI, strip it down, rebuild it.

During the rebuild you could address a lot of the "issues" TDi`s have.

Interior could be fitted with sound deadner, Puma seats etc.

Engine could be upgraded, the new Cummins 2.8 looks like a good option, Isuzu and Cummins 6bt are other options.

Even could Auto if that takes your fancy

Diffs could be upgraded

Transfer case could be strengthed,


Some very rough sums are

Vehicle 10k

Interior 5k Puma Seats, insulation etc etc

Rust Repairs, Paint 8k

Engine and driveline 10k maybe more depend on option, could be double.


So lets say for roughly 40k you could have a Landrover that will do 10 years plus. Will have the creature comforts you want, you will have a rebuilt driveline.

[ATH]

Or you could buy my 110 instead which has had virtually all necessary done to make it ultra reliable. Anything extra done would be purely for your own particular needs.
Plus it's 5K less than the above scenario of buying and doing up.
Just a thought....
AlanH.

[Stinkler]

Doing the full rebuild is a nice idea, but I really need a 130 that's ready willing and able. I'll have my hands full with a new property and need a work horse straight up, though I don't mid upgrades and bits n bobs along the way.

I actually would love 110, but practicality demands a tray.

Defenders are certainly not the cheap option as they seem to be pricey, but compared to a Land Cruiser twin cab they are way better value!

All this input is at least clarifying ideas for me. I've read the Td5 after 2002 is a better engine, some say better than the Puma. Things like that help focus my search even more, slowly narrowing it down.

[Stinkler]

Ok, so now it looks like I'm decided. Was kind of waiting for my budget to sort, wondering if I could afford a top notch car would I go there or still be frugal.

After all the advice here it's a no brainer just to buy the best unit you can, so I'll be looking at a decent Puma, lowish kms with few upgrades.

Have my eyes on a couple, hopefully soon the right one will be mine and my deep Defender life starts!

Thanks all for input

[roverrescue]

In my experience
130s get hammered
It’s the Ute you buy when you kill hiluxs!!!!

As such I reckon you want to find the lowest km best looked after one you can

When I upgraded my old old old beaten up tdi 130 last year
I was pretty open minded to exact model BUT
It had to have a tray and low km

I envisaged it would end up being a 2.2 tdci but a forum member reluctantly sold me
His immaculate 2.4 ‘09 .... 60kk sound proofed , grease nipples intermediate shaft
Drive slop removed ... was a no brainer

I regularly tow a 2.5T boat - the tdci makes short work of it and first is low enough that you won’t need the low box to haul out

It’s not like there are millions of 130s for sale
I’d shortlist what tray / tub / canopy fitout you want then just find the best example of that available.... it might be a td5 but I doubt it ;)

Steve

[hpal]

I bought 2-3 years ago my first defender and love it's off road ability and it's character. It's a 2005 td5 and i bought it with 236000km, it had not many mods. I've built it up into a nice wagon with lots of creature comforts including ecu remap and Disco transfer case, it goes great and I hear the td5 is a sought after engine. I haven't had any/many troubles with the car. It has ABS, traction control, power windows, A/C etc. If i had the money and still wanted a defender I'd buy a Puma in a heartbeat, mainly for the seats, 6 speed, and air-con.

The td5 is hot in summer and noisy in the cabin and there's not too much you can do about it except buy a puma or a Disco....

[Summiitt]

Im running 2 300Tdi, 1 Td5, 2 Isuzu and 1 2.2, 130s in forestry work.. If you can afford it, try and get into a 2.4 or 2.2..(2008 onwards). All of the engines are a good thing, but I find the 6 speed box is a better unit for load carrying and towing, plus better highway cruising.. The interiors of the later models are a much better place to be in than the older models.
Im onto my third 2008+ model totalling probably 500,000k and have had some issues, but generally they have been very reliable and have always got me home

[Stinkler]

Im running 2 300Tdi, 1 Td5, 2 Isuzu and 1 2.2, 130s in forestry work.. If you can afford it, try and get into a 2.4 or 2.2..(2008 onwards). All of the engines are a good thing, but I find the 6 speed box is a better unit for load carrying and towing, plus better highway cruising.. The interiors of the later models are a much better place to be in than the older models.
Im onto my third 2008+ model totalling probably 500,000k and have had some issues, but generally they have been very reliable and have always got me home

Well certainly you have experience worth listening to it would seem! As it happens I have my eye on a very neat 09 130, loads of upgrades, 80k km, extremely tidy unit. I'm 100% into it but seller 50/50 about selling!!

I have my fingers crossed that in the new year it will become mine, it ticks all my boxes, and a few I don't know I have yet I'm sure.

Must be a joy having acces to so many Defenders! I always wanted to do forestry as a teen in Tassie, but life took me elsewhere.