is 200 amps to much

[terry1738]

Considering buying a light bar and was amazed that some had quoted wattage as 2100W to 2400W thats 200 amps. I dont know what my alternator is rated at on discovery 4 TDV6 but that seems like an awful lot of current drain yet I see these things on lots of cars.
Any one know if this will cause problems with my electrical system.
I can power it off a second battery but thats not isolated while the car is running so the alternator is still under load.
Any advice welcome

[Vern]

That is obviously a typo.

[Tombie]

A common lie in the LED lighting world.
Is claims of outrageous outputs..

And - Wattage is not a measure of light output - yet is commonly used (incorrectly).

No LED is driven at 100% or they will fail, the thermal management is what is important to making a light bar survive.

Also - and this is critically important to ALL humans. The eyes ability to resolve light is limited - too much and you will not be able to see correctly.

You also do not want a hot spot in front of the vehicle or you will not be able to see things beyond it as your eyes will naturally “tune” to this location.

[Pinelli]

Sometimes LED lamps are described using the equivalent power of incandescent lamps to give the same light. Any chance that's the case here?

[bee utey]

Real life current draw of a cheapie "2400W" light bar would likely be between 20 and 50 amps, depending on how terrible the driver circuits are.

[terry1738]

Here are the so called tech specs this is not the only light bar on ebay that claims a wattage of over 2000W there are dozens of them I just couldnt believe its correct thats why I asked the question.
I fully understand the difference between luminosity and wattage and am familiar with the equations that determine wattage volts and resistance and they have no relationship to lumens however the tech specs seem pretty clear and it also specifies a massive luminosity though at what distance this is measured is not mentioned so I assume its the default 1 meter.
So assuming these specs are correct I would imagine I would have flat battery quiet quickly.
Is there even a 10 Watt LED available?
the add is at
Quad-Row 29"INCH 2160W LED WORK LIGHT BAR Combo Lens For Ford Jeep Offroad 30/32 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Quad-Row-29-034-INCH-2160W-LED-WORK-LIGHT-BAR-Combo-Lens-For-Ford-Jeep-Offroad-30-32-/152818617804?)

Quad-Row 29"INCH 2160W LED WORK LIGHT BAR Combo Lens For Ford Jeep Offroad 30/32 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Quad-Row-29-034-INCH-2160W-LED-WORK-LIGHT-BAR-Combo-Lens-For-Ford-Jeep-Offroad-30-32-/152818617804?)

Technical Specification

Power: 2160W ---(334800lm)
LED Quantity:216pcs*10W OSRAM LED chips
Operating Voltage: DC 9-32V(Fit 12V/24V vehicle)
Beam Angle: 30 degree(spot beam)&60 degree(flood beam)
Color temperature: Pure White 6000K
Working Temperature:-40-85 degree Celsius
IP68 water and dust seal,about 50000 hours life time
Material: Black Die-cast Aluminum profile, PC lens, solid bottom slip
Certified by CE & RoH

[bblaze]

you need to look at landrover ones, not ford and jeep ones. There lies the problem [bigsmile][bigsmile][bigsmile]
cheers
blaze

[terry1738]

Real life current draw of a cheapie "2400W" light bar would likely be between 20 and 50 amps, depending on how terrible the driver circuits are.

what driver circuits are used in an led device?

[bee utey]

what driver circuits are used in an led device?

Constant current drivers, that with a wide range of input voltage the driver has to keep the current within safe limits. Most cc drivers produce pulsed DC that you can see sometimes if you whiz a LED light past your gaze, you'll see stripes of brightness.

Cheap, narrow voltage range LED lights just use resistors that waste a fair fraction of the input power. This is most commonly used on the long strip lights made for 12V only.

[Jpkat]

look i have brought those sort of cheapo led light bars from eBay before, led's fail one after another, a quick search for a 10 Watt leds shows that the led chip would be huge so i'm sure they're over exaggerating i have brought and installed a set of 4WD supa centre 9 inch round lights they're awesome, i'm sure the light bars would be the same and they're not to badly priced

LED Light Bars , 4WD & Outdoor Products - Australia (https://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/products/led-light-bars.html)

[BrianElloy]

look i have brought those sort of cheapo led light bars from eBay before, led's fail one after another, a quick search for a 10 Watt leds shows that the led chip would be huge so i'm sure they're over exaggerating i have brought and installed a set of 4WD supa centre 9 inch round lights they're awesome, i'm sure the light bars would be the same and they're not to badly priced

LED Light Bars , 4WD & Outdoor Products - Australia (https://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/products/led-light-bars.html)

Agree.. I have the 9” round Illuminators and they rock with no hotspots and very even spread

Thinking about adding their 40” “Godfather” LED light at up on the roof rack but I note they’re the 10W LED’s which after reading the above I’m wondering if this is the best option

Adventure Kings 40" 'Godfather' Slim LED Light Bar | Spot & Spread | IP67 , 4WD & Outdoor Products - Australia (https://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/products/led-light-bars/slimline-light-bar-combo-deals/adventure-kings-40-lethal-slim-led-light-bar.html)

[trout1105]

I have had a couple of the 9 inch LED spotties fitted for a while now and these have the 10w LED's fitted, They haven't given me any problems yet.
I ditched the wiring harness that came with the lights in favour of installing my own wiring that is a bit beefier and I have a 40a relay for each light instead of the single relay that came with the wiring harness provided with the lights.

[Jpkat]

Agree.. I have the 9” round Illuminators and they rock with no hotspots and very even spread

Thinking about adding their 40” “Godfather” LED light at up on the roof rack but I note they’re the 10W LED’s which after reading the above I’m wondering if this is the best option

Adventure Kings 40" 'Godfather' Slim LED Light Bar | Spot & Spread | IP67 , 4WD & Outdoor Products - Australia (https://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/products/led-light-bars/slimline-light-bar-combo-deals/adventure-kings-40-lethal-slim-led-light-bar.html)


i could be wrong Brian as i only did a quick search so don't go off my word i'm sure they all cant be pulling our leg and saying they're 10 watt led chips

[BrianElloy]

I have had a couple of the 9 inch LED spotties fitted for a while now and these have the 10w LED's fitted, They haven't given me any problems yet.
I ditched the wiring harness that came with the lights in favour of installing my own wiring that is a bit beefier and I have a 40a relay for each light instead of the single relay that came with the wiring harness provided with the lights.

Yep good idea I did the same. The supplied harness from 4wdsupacentre was mediocre st best

[DiscoJeffster]

Yep good idea I did the same. The supplied harness from 4wdsupacentre was mediocre st best

Call me lazy but I figured they supply thousands of these so the harness must be fit for purpose. I’m using it as supplied and it works fine. No indication any wires are struggling to handle the current. I carry the supplies spare relay in case of issues but I haven’t needed it.

[DiscoMick]

I bought the 4wd Supercentre 20 inch slim lightbar. The specs say the current draw is 7.20 @ 14.4 volts. I used their wiring kit. So far it works great.

[trout1105]

I bought the 4wd Supercentre 20 inch slim lightbar. The specs say the current draw is 7.20 @ 14.4 volts. I used their wiring kit. So far it works great.

I have used the original wiring for the lightbar I fitted and that hasn't given me any problems, The Main reason I changed the wiring for the spotlights is that I Much prefer to have a relay for each light and for simplicity I ran my own wiring to achieve that.

[DiscoMick]

Yes, I have the Traxide wiring kit on my wish list for the headlights and driving lights.
Also lusting after Nugget's LED headlights.
But first comes the 100,000km service and new tyres.
So many desires, such limited funds (sigh).

[DiscoJeffster]

Yes, I have the Traxide wiring kit on my wish list for the headlights and driving lights.
Also lusting after Nugget's LED headlights.
But first comes the 100,000km service and new tyres.
So many desires, such limited funds (sigh).

I hear ya! I’ve got a coolant service to do with all the parts waiting which tallied to a lot. New reserve, new water pump, engine water outlet, new top hose, oh and a new alternator as preventative. Now for the time!

[BrianElloy]

Call me lazy but I figured they supply thousands of these so the harness must be fit for purpose. I’m using it as supplied and it works fine. No indication any wires are struggling to handle the current. I carry the supplies spare relay in case of issues but I haven’t needed it.

Fair enough - My AutoLec said he’d replaced a few harnesses in Illuminator kits that were burned out due to the smaller gauge feed (20A) with a 25A fuse which of course makes no sense

Maybe it was a bad or early batch.. dunno. I went with 40A wiring and 30A fuses and have had no problems so far

Might be worth checking that your fuse is SMALLER than the gauge of wiring just in case

[DiscoMick]

If my bar only draws 7.2A then 20A wiring should be fine, I think.

[terry1738]

I found the 2013 TDV6 alternator is rated at 150amps so at max output it is good for around 2150W. The consensus is the vehicle will use 60% of the rated output at max load so that leaves about 850W . I reckon I would want about half that say 400W as excess so I have 450W to run extra devices.
Apparently there is a 10W LED chip and I even have found a 15W chip, jeez things move quickly it was not so long ago a 1W chip was mind blowing now 1 LED chip draws over an amp.
So one decent light bar will draw 250W and a pair of those 9" spotties will draw 300W (35x5W led chips each light).
If the specs are right for some of these quad row light bars you would run your battery into mush in a few hours of operation.
I never thought much about what a vehicles electrical system can handle till I started looking for a light bar usually just brought the biggest I could find and bung it on the car but this has started me thinking.
I wrote to 2 of these suppliers but no replies. They are probably selling stuff out of a bedroom and wouldn't have a clue anyway.

[Tombie]

The reason they quote big numbers - Hilux drivers love it [emoji4]...

Good light is the sum of its parts...
Reliable
Useable
Suitable

[Tombie]

If you want something very good..

50 inch ST2K Curved Super Drive 20 LED Light Bar (https://www.stedi.com.au/curved-50-inch-st2k-super-spot-20-led-light-bar.html)

[mikeh]

Considering buying a light bar and was amazed that some had quoted wattage as 2100W to 2400W thats 200 amps. I dont know what my alternator is rated at on discovery 4 TDV6 but that seems like an awful lot of current drain yet I see these things on lots of cars.
Any one know if this will cause problems with my electrical system.
I can power it off a second battery but thats not isolated while the car is running so the alternator is still under load.
Any advice welcome

LED power is usually quoted in Lumens. Incandescant lights in watts. eg

1500 lm

= 100 W







Watts current draw is measured in amps whereas led current draw is in Milli-amps

Using ohms law ........watts (w) = current (I) * volts (V) or W=I*V in watts.

To obtain the current draw of the above example 100watts is calculated as I=W/V or 100/12= 8.3333amps.

I hope this will clarify things for you.

[turps]

I bought the 4wd Supercentre 20 inch slim lightbar. The specs say the current draw is 7.20 @ 14.4 volts. I used their wiring kit. So far it works great.

That would be 103.68w.

Even the brand name ones are full of rubbish in there specs.

[BbLandy130]

Highly Recommend the STEDI range, the chip power supplies are very stable. They've also got good local backup. And they've rated all their lights at the newer rating system of 1Lux at * Measured distance.

STEDI LED Light Bars | Australia (http://www.stedi.com.au)

Heard a "good rumor' that they may come from the same production line that the Lightforce range is produced from

[superquag]

Why does anyone "need" 1,000w + of LED light ? Not for road use,- glare from roadside peg reflectors would be distracting and big signs .... For off-road. There's still no point in illuminating your destination from 10 km away.
Better to put the lumens where YOU need them .
Complaints have been received from the International Space Station.!

[donh54]

Why does anyone "need" 1,000w + of LED light ? Not for road use,- glare from roadside peg reflectors would be distracting and big signs .... For off-road. There's still no point in illuminating your destination from 10 km away.
Better to put the lumens where YOU need them .
Complaints have been received from the International Space Station.!
Don't tell anyone, but 10x100 watt/lumen/whatever measure you use, leds, doesn't equal 1000 watts of usable light. Each element is producing 100 whatevers. That's all you get. Whether there's 1, 10 or 100 of them. They don't stack on each other, they are side by side. The only thing that increases is the total current draw.

[Mal]

Supacentre harnesses and any harness supplied by ebay sellers that are included are usually " fit to the price " not " fit for the purpose ".

I'm a bit lazy , going to the hassle of running cable etc. I prefer to make a custom over-spec harness neat and tidy and the job only done once.

Supacentre harness cost them $9 , a decent quality relay is more than $9....

I have pulled many cheap harnesses out for people and installed a custom made one.
last one cost the owner $220 , should have taken pictures once I had removed the rats nest and finished it was hard to tell that any aftermarket wiring was done.

High wattage claims are generally equivalent to incandescent output , not actual . It is a marketing tactic to suck in the young Hilux and Ranger owners who lift their wheels at the local shopping mall aka "mallcrawlers".

10W LED yes they exist, if driven at 100% duty cycle this is the power drawn, however to make them efficient and not over heat they are driven with what is essentially a constant current switch mode power supply , cheaper light arrays use cheap drivers with very little RF filtering and when you turn them on your radio sounds like a snow storm, they effectively are white noise generators.

next thing to consider is colour temp in kelvin eg. 6500K 6000K 5000K , 6500K is one of the cheapest colours to produce and is starting to get too blue for decent colour rendering for the human eye, 6000K is about the maximum you want to pick. 5000K are much better visually than 6500K but 3 to 4 time the price to produce. basically anything with 6500K is at the bottom end. 6000K mid and then 5000K ( pure white) mid to high.
I have a set of 9" 5000K LED driving lights 185W per side , much nicer and better light than the similar 9" lights with 6500K , the cost price of the 5000K lights was $260 USD the 6500K cost price was $79 USD which are a very popular light sold here in Australia.

One good set of lights can be better than a set of driving lights and a huge lightbar.

[Tombie]

LED power is usually quoted in Lumens. Incandescant lights in watts. eg

1500 lm

= 100 W







Watts current draw is measured in amps whereas led current draw is in Milli-amps

Using ohms law ........watts (w) = current (I) * volts (V) or W=I*V in watts.

To obtain the current draw of the above example 100watts is calculated as I=W/V or 100/12= 8.3333amps.

I hope this will clarify things for you.

Incandescent can be expressed as Lumens/Watt but cannot be expressed in Watts alone as that is a measure of power not light.

There are different levels of efficiency in filament based bulbs and it can vary quite significantly.

LED power is quoted in Watts, but negates to mention that is at 100% (which they can not sustain)..
The Lumen output quoted is often (rule rather than exception) in theoretical Lumens (what the emitter can produce at full power) rather than actual lumens, measured after the Driver/Thermal management have taken control.

Hence why a 20” - 20x10w (200w) LED Bar only consumes ~50% of the quoted power.

[Tombie]

The other point of note at this point in technology...

Luminous efficiency of a LED at the same point in the colour spectrum as a Xenophot Bulb is about the same power consumption....

[waz164]

240w is hopefully what you meant,
240w is approx 20amp @ 12volts (approx due to voltage drop over cable length, size,etc)
divide wattage (240) by voltage (12) to get amps (20)
hope this helps Waz

[Aussie Jeepster]

I've followed this thread with great interest as I have a pair of LED's to fit to my D3.
I've long been a lover of Rigid Industries lights, as as I've done a lot of back and forth trips to the US over the last few years, I've been able to get them at some great prices in the US.
When I had my Wrangler, I had 5 sets of Dually's on it and it certainly turned night into day. In hindsight, it was overkill for most situations.
I currently have a pair of D2 Dually's in pencil beam to fit to my D3, and I will certainly not be using heavy wiring. The loom/relay supplied with them will be fine.

D-Series PRO | Driving Surface White Black | Rigid Industries (https://www.rigidindustries.com/led-lighting/501313)

Here are the specifications:



Watts: 44
Amp Draw: 3.14
LED's: 6
Raw Lumens: 4752
Lux @ 10m: 231.48
Beam Distance: 152.1 m
Peak Beam Intensity: 23148 cd

Rigid tend to spend more time talking lumens and output, rather than watts and amps.
Whilst they are expensive (here or the US) they are built like tanks.
My suspicion on many of the LED's sold on the Bay of E is that the wattage figures are a bit like saying "my ### is bigger than yours" and the big numbers quoted are more like wankerwatts rather than realwatts!!!!

I know it is advertising on their website, but there is some interesting info here;
RIGID DIFFERENCE - Rigid Industries LED Light Bar - Marine,... (https://www.rigidindustries.com/rigiddifference)

[DiscoJeffster]

240w is hopefully what you meant,
240w is approx 20amp @ 12volts (approx due to voltage drop over cable length, size,etc)
divide wattage (240) by voltage (12) to get amps (20)
hope this helps Waz

No he was right, HOWEVER, they are quoting that their fake 10W LEDs max output x the number of LEDs so they're saying there are 240 LEDs @ 10W.
To quote one ebay seller literally
"BEAM PARTTERN (sic): 2400W 372000LM OSRAM LEDS. Powered by together 240 pcs super efficient 10W OSRAM LEDS. Flood & Spot Combo Beam. 184 pcsSuper Intensity SPOT (30°) LEDS, Much More Brighter, Make The Night Into Day,56 pcs Multi-Angle Reflection FLOOD (150°) LEDS, Wider vision"

So as you can see, this is bull**** at its best. The fact is they don't run the 10W LEDs at 10W for a start. They are most likely copy LEDs as well.

Will it work? Probably. Will LEDs fail, yes. Will it matter? Probably not. Will the entire light's supply power supply fail rendering the light useless? Maybe.

The OP has no worries with the current draw however, which is the main point. Just because there is a supposed inclusion of 240 10W LEDs, doesn't mean they're drawing that. I don't even believe they are 10W based on the size on the SMDs. It's all complete and utter codswallop.

[shack]

Just out of interest, check what size relay you get supplied, that will tell you what they draw, and it ain't much, maybe 30 or 40 amp, and the light obviously uses less than that,I used to worry about it as well, but I've not checked current draw, however I've never wrecked a relay they've supplied, and they are certainly not 100 amp jobs, even on the big lights......
Some people/companies are just a whisker economical with the truth

[terry1738]

HA HA finally got a reply from one of these ******* after asking for the full technical specs this is what I received.

dear friend.
we have checked that the size light is suitable for your car (2013 TDV6 155kw auto discovery 4)
you could buy and try it on your car
if it couldn't work well as you wonder.
we aslo do return or resend work for you.
hope for your reply
have a nice day.
best regards.


Thanks to all replys has been a real eye opener. Did not realise LEDs are not driven at full power so have to brush up on my electronics knowledge in this area.
Seems there is no real standard to judge these things by before buying except word of mouth and some reviews which seem to be on $500+ units, another BS number.
As we all know price does not equal quality the same as watts do not equal luminosity if that has not been said enough.
Thanks for this link they go into a lot of detail for there products and they are only a few bucks dearer then the ebay "buy my crap and I love you" dealers.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/redirect-to/'redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.4wdsupacentre.com.au%2 Fproducts%2Fled-light-bars.html
I will probably buy a bar from them and see how it goes as all I want is a bit more punch to my hi beam lights.

[DiscoJeffster]

Yeah. I’d love a Stedi, but as I only go away three times a year, and even then rarely drive at night, I can’t justify it. My supacentre jobbies fit the bill for the amount they get used.

[superquag]

Don't tell anyone, but 10x100 watt/lumen/whatever measure you use, leds, doesn't equal 1000 watts of usable light. Each element is producing 100 whatevers. That's all you get. Whether there's 1, 10 or 100 of them. They don't stack on each other, they are side by side. The only thing that increases is the total current draw.


Let's put it simply. What we SEE is not what we PERCEIVE. The former is for Engineers, the latter for us, real people in a real world, so, a doubling of light output/power use/BS advertising Number will result in (real world...) a small but obvious increase in brightness... but not what you would call "Twice as much"

Like the ears, our eyes work in a more logarithmic progression.
To illustrate from the Real World was the craze in home lighting some decades ago, big imports of (fake) 'brass & glass' multi-lamp pendants... you know, take out the single ceiling globe and plug in the 'chandelier' in either 3 or 5 lamp configurations. But with a max of 60W each, chewing up 3x 60W = 180watts...gave not much more light than the single clear 100W it replaced !

Here's a reference to a lumen-fetish forum you may find ... 'illuminating'

Do lumens add up? (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?189362-Do-lumens-add-up)

Bottom line for vehicles and spotties etc, you get the greatest amount of useful light (brightness) with the least number of active light sources, and a single pencil-beam 100W 'spottie' goes further/brighter than a pair of 50W spots -aligned one on top of the other.

But aimed side by side, the pair of 50W spots gives twice the lit-up area with lesser brightness.
Lightbars are designed (usually...) for gi-normous S P R E A D over shorter range, which they do very well.

[Tombie]

“Gi-normous” spread... [emoji56]

And huge amounts of light so close the eye cannot resolve correctly and then focuses back to the bright area directly around the vehicle.

Rendering mid to longer distance vision poor...