Lycra lunatic takes womans keys

[Roverlord off road spares]

Road rage at Devils Elbow Wednesday, 13 December 2017 04:54
Police are investigating after a road rage incident in Tremont left a woman stranded on her way to picking up a family member from hospital.
Investigators have been told a woman was travelling in a Kia hatchback along Devils Elbow on Mount Dandenong Tourist Road shortly before 2.30pm yesterday afternoon.
It is understood a male cyclist unhappy with her driving stopped near the car, reached inside the driver’s side window and took the keys from the ignition.
He threw them down an embankment and into bushland, leaving the driver stranded as she was unable to find the keys.
The driver, who was on her way to collect her mother from hospital, was unable to find the keys.
Police arrived and eventually managed to locate the keys.
The cyclist was wearing orange, red and yellow Lycra.
Investigators are appealing for anyone who witnessed the incident or may have information regarding the cyclist’s identity to come forward.
Anyone with any information is urged to contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or submit a confidential crime report at www.crimestoppersvic.com.au (http://www.crimestoppersvic.com.au)

Luke Zammit
Media Officer
64540










Maybe the woman did do something to pee off the cyclist, but some of the lycra lunatics up this way need to pull their heads in too. Sometimes they should stick to bike tracks and be off the road where the cars drive.

[justinc]

Mamils.... i rest my case....😠

[weeds]

Yawn........

[Svengali0]

Cyclist's 'intervention'...I wonder what said Kia driver was doing to elicit that behaviour.

[bee utey]

Kia lunatic told to get off damn phone and concentrate on the road.

[Tins]

Cyclist's 'intervention'...I wonder what said Kia driver was doing to elicit that behaviour.

So, if I see a cyclist behaving badly, which I often do, I am justified in taking his bike and throwing it off an embankment?

[trout1105]

I think there is more to this than is being stated and I have my doubts that the woman who got her keys chucked in the bush was totally innocent.
Maybe the cyclist did the right thing here we don't know ALL the facts.

[bee utey]

So, if I see a cyclist behaving badly, which I often do, I am justified in taking his bike and trowing it off an embankment?

No, just their saddle. [biggrin]

[Tins]

I think there is more to this than is being stated and I have my doubts that the woman who got her keys chucked in the bush was totally innocent.
Maybe the cyclist did the right thing here we don't know ALL the facts.

No matter if the woman was innocent or not, there is no way the cyclist did the "right thing". That is the role of Police. I hope they find him and hit him hard.

[trout1105]

No matter if the woman was innocent or not, there is no way the cyclist did the "right thing". That is the role of Police. I hope they find him and hit him hard.

Sometimes the Police are not available and civilians take action to protect themselves or others as well.
Like I said we Don't know ALL the facts here so lynching the bike rider out of hand is a bit premature.

[justinc]

😅😅😅😅😅
Somehow i KNEW these comments would appear!!
"Oh popcorn, where for art thou?"

😅😅

[Gordie]

Similar incidents were happening in NZ, when there seemed to be a spate of foreign tourists driving inadvertently on the wrong side of the road and causing sometimes fatal head on crashes. Locals took to stopping them and taking their keys when seeing them drive dangerously(but then awaiting police)...interesting question isn't it...preventing a tragedy...or intimidating people, can be seen both ways?

[4range]

"the cyclist appeared form nowhere"

In other words ...

"I had no idea what was going on around me"

I respectfully suggest that had the driver been mindful of the bike rider and been sufficiently courteous, they would both have continued on their merry way without any interaction whatsoever.

[fitzy]

A photo fit of the alleged offender has been released
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/389.jpg

[Tins]

Like I said we Don't know ALL the facts here so lynching the bike rider out of hand is a bit premature.

I agree totally. Seems to me that some here are keen to lynch the car driver.


Sometimes the Police are not available and civilians take action to protect themselves or others as well.

Sorry, but under no circumstances is it OK for someone to take the action that the cyclist is alleged to have taken. I wonder if the big tough guy would have taken the same action against a ute full of brickies. Somehow I doubt it.

As to the Police: Dunno about SA, but in Vic police can charge a driver if two independent witnesses report the same incident.

[VladTepes]

So where's the line.

I was commuting to work on my motorcycle and a woman to the left of me was driving whilst using her phone handheld - texting or something like that.

When we stopped at the lights I saw her window was down so I went up next to her, grabbed her phone, and threw it into her back seat.

Why did I do that when I was far more tempted to hurl it across the road? Well taking it and throwing it away is probably theft or burglary or something. But mostly because she'd inevitably try to recover the phone which would put her physical safety at high risk.

So I 'managed' it in a way that made my point, ensured that she wasn't immediately on her phone again, and hopefully made her think about her actions. But with no damage done.

She did teach me a few words that I didn't think women used....

[rangieman]

So where's the line.

I was commuting to work on my motorcycle and a woman to the left of me was driving whilst using her phone handheld - texting or something like that.

When we stopped at the lights I saw her window was down so I went up next to her, grabbed her phone, and threw it into her back seat.

Why did I do that when I was far more tempted to hurl it across the road? Well taking it and throwing it away is probably theft or burglary or something. But mostly because she'd inevitably try to recover the phone which would put her physical safety at high risk.

So I 'managed' it in a way that made my point, ensured that she wasn't immediately on her phone again, and hopefully made her think about her actions. But with no damage done.

She did teach me a few words that I didn't think women used....
It is not up to us to take the law into our own hands :bat:
What you did will not teach said driver a thing except to wind her window up to prevent loony bike riders invading their space [wink11]
Also what you did i bet you could be charged for even if she was breaking the law so be careful in future my friend as we all live in a totally cotton balled state of losers rights [bighmmm]
You should be careful doing such good deeds just imagine if Bf or hubby were close by of following im sure you would not have seen it coming [FishSlap].
Two wrongs don`t make a right [thumbsupbig]

[bee utey]

Seems to me that some here are keen to lynch the car driver.

No, just to teach her a lesson to not endanger the lives of other road users by her poor behaviour. Probably won't work though, if she's so weak she had to call the police to find her keys she's probably beyond learning.

Of course I don't condone illegal behaviour (not much anyway) but some of these canned morons do drive you to desperate measures. :bat:

[Eevo]

Kia lunatic told to get off damn phone and concentrate on the road.


vigilantes for the win!
</sarcasm>

[Roverlord off road spares]

So where's the line.

I was commuting to work on my motorcycle and a woman to the left of me was driving whilst using her phone handheld - texting or something like that.

When we stopped at the lights I saw her window was down so I went up next to her, grabbed her phone, and threw it into her back seat.

Why did I do that when I was far more tempted to hurl it across the road? Well taking it and throwing it away is probably theft or burglary or something. But mostly because she'd inevitably try to recover the phone which would put her physical safety at high risk.

So I 'managed' it in a way that made my point, ensured that she wasn't immediately on her phone again, and hopefully made her think about her actions. But with no damage done.

She did teach me a few words that I didn't think women used....
Come over hear on a weekend you could have a field day with the tourists that visit.

[Roverlord off road spares]

It was on the news tonight, the media make it sound so "oh the poor woman, down syndrone child that was traumatised, the visiting of the sick mother in hospital." There are 2 sides to the story, the road is very windy and dangerous, maybe she cut off the cyclist and he gave he a piece of his mind???? we weren't there, so are only hearing her side. Either way that road is dangerous, we really don't need stuff like this up here.

[Eevo]

Police are appealing for witnesses and help identifying the caucasian cyclist, who was wearing orange, red, white and yellow Lycra.
He has been described as thin and up to 183cm tall.

bee, that sounds like you. lol

[weeds]

Come over hear on a weekend you could have a field day with the tourists that visit.

So locals don’t do the wrong thing.

[trog]

Got to wonder , is the issue the Lycra , bicycle rider or a rash reaction to a situation. Slapping a label like this on is as bad as the accident that involved a four wheel drive although the vehicle itself is not the culprit but the driver.
Or maybe just ban all bikes and close up the shops ?

[bee utey]

bee, that sounds like you. lol

:clap2:

caucasian
me and 10 million other oz bods

wearing orange, red, white and yellow Lycra
nope nope nope

thin
I wish

up to 183cm tall
keep going.

[trout1105]

It is not up to us to take the law into our own hands :bat:
What you did will not teach said driver a thing except to wind her window up to prevent loony bike riders invading their space [wink11]
Also what you did i bet you could be charged for even if she was breaking the law so be careful in future my friend as we all live in a totally cotton balled state of losers rights [bighmmm]
You should be careful doing such good deeds just imagine if Bf or hubby were close by of following im sure you would not have seen it coming [FishSlap].
Two wrongs don`t make a right [thumbsupbig]

Maybe if the same thing happened to that lunatic that ran amok in Burke St there wouldn't have been anyone hurt [bigwhistle]

[rangieman]

Maybe if the same thing happened to that lunatic that ran amok in Burke St there wouldn't have been anyone hurt [bigwhistle]
Yeah a couple of idiots tried but all it did was razz the tool up more:bat:
So blame the cops as they were following him all arvo [bighmmm].
Mate that is a cop out , No use trying to shut the gate after the horse has bolted.
Only if hey !

[Eevo]

why dont we hand out guns to everyone so they can "teach others a lesson" when they feel hurt or wronged.
works in america right?... right?

[Tins]

It was on the news tonight, the media make it sound so "oh the poor woman, down syndrone child that was traumatised, the visiting of the sick mother in hospital." There are 2 sides to the story, the road is very windy and dangerous, maybe she cut off the cyclist and he gave he a piece of his mind???? we weren't there, so are only hearing her side. Either way that road is dangerous, we really don't need stuff like this up here.

We are only hearing her side because the big tough man hasn't come forward to tell his. It seems that nobody is denying that he reached in, took her keys and chucked them. How would you react if some thug did that to Heather? Never mind, I reckon I know how Heather would react.[bigwhistle]

[bee utey]

why dont we hand out guns to everyone so they can "teach others a lesson" when they feel hurt or wronged.
works in america right?... right?

What everyone needs to do is ring the police and quietly sit by the side of the road until they get a parking ticket or the police show up, whichever is the earlier.

[ATH]

A large horrible mate of mine did much the same thing after being abused in a servo by some lout, took his ute keys out and threw them on the roof. Lout decides he's better off not arguing and called mates for a ladder.
I don't condone my mates actions or others like it, but if the authorities want to stop phone usage (if that's what caused the incident) they should just enact legislation letting cops immediately confiscate the offenders phone.
No if's, buts or maybes except in dire emergency.
But of course they won't as they're too frightened of voter back lash....... weak *******.
AlanH.

[Tins]

This was a road rage incident. It is astonishing how many people there are here who are condoning it. You need to seperate the issues. If the woman was texting or something, sure, her bad. That is one issue. The other issue is some coward terrorising her because he could. The two things are seperate. If the cyclist is actually NOT a coward he will come forward and let the cards fall. I would have a reasonable bet that he won't. Most thugs are gutless. I suspect that this one is too. He has every chance to prove me wrong.

[Bigbjorn]

1980's I saw a Yellow Cab and a small Jap ute pull up alongside each other at the Vulture St.& Main St. lights in the Gabba. The cabby chucked a middle finger salute at the ute. The ute driver got out in about 4 layers, probably 6'5" and big. The cabby must have been ****ting himself hoping the lights would change. Ute driver strode around to the cab, opened the door, grabbed the keys, and threw them into the gardens outside the Dental Hospital, got in his ute and drove off with the next green light. Cabby left sitting in the middle of Vulture St, with every Tom, Dick and Harriet blowing horns and abusing him.

[Slunnie]

Such a story, she was minding her own busIness and then this just randomly happened. I still spect she is absolutely clueless about what's going on around her and she probably needs to be removed from the road anyway.

[Slunnie]

This was a road rage incident. It is astonishing how many people there are here who are condoning it. You need to seperate the issues. If the woman was texting or something, sure, her bad. That is one issue. The other issue is some coward terrorising her because he could. The two things are seperate. If the cyclist is actually NOT a coward he will come forward and let the cards fall. I would have a reasonable bet that he won't. Most thugs are gutless. I suspect that this one is too. He has every chance to prove me wrong.
I don't condone her ignorance, and if she isn't a coward she would hand in her licence before she kills someone.

[Homestar]

I think the biggest problem - which is shown here in this thread, and every thread that runs on cyclists, here and other Australian forums I’m on is the ‘Us versus them’ mentality that most come out with defending ‘their’ side to the death.

I’m sure that the woman involved here was oblivious to her surroundings and did something to cause the response from the rider, but his actions are reprehensible even if he did so it in the spur of the moment. BOTH of them, but at least the woman stopped to see what was going on, the cyclist in this case was IMO too cowardly to stop and discuss this which may have led to the woman’s actually learning something, instead she just ends up being the victim of a road rage incident - no winners there.

There are dumb and angry cyclists, dumb and angry motor cyclists, dumb and angry motorists. What we need to do is learn how to take a deep breath and all work towards making the roads usable by everyone in a safe and polite manner. No idea why we can’t do this here in Australia, Europe seem to have this down pat and all road users get along fine.

Despite who was right and who was wrong here, give cyclists a bit of room - it really isn’t that hard, and cyclists - don’t do dumb illegal **** in front of motorists all the time. If both of these things could happen there’d be a lot less problems and a lot less of the bull**** ‘us versus them’ mentality.

Until we can do that, we’ll be back here every time something like this happens going over the same old ground.

JUST HELP EACH OTHER OUT ON THE ROADS PLEASE, IT ISN’T HARD.

[SBD4]

I think the biggest problem - which is shown here in this thread, and every thread that runs on cyclists, here and other Australian forums I’m on is the ‘Us versus them’ mentality that most come out with defending ‘their’ side to the death.

I’m sure that the woman involved here was oblivious to her surroundings and did something to cause the response from the rider, but his actions are reprehensible even if he did so it in the spur of the moment. BOTH of them, but at least the woman stopped to see what was going on, the cyclist in this case was IMO too cowardly to stop and discuss this which may have led to the woman’s actually learning something, instead she just ends up being the victim of a road rage incident - no winners there.

There are dumb and angry cyclists, dumb and angry motor cyclists, dumb and angry motorists. What we need to do is learn how to take a deep breath and all work towards making the roads usable by everyone in a safe and polite manner. No idea why we can’t do this here in Australia, Europe seem to have this down pat and all road users get along fine.

Despite who was right and who was wrong here, give cyclists a bit of room - it really isn’t that hard, and cyclists - don’t do dumb illegal **** in front of motorists all the time. If both of these things could happen there’d be a lot less problems and a lot less of the bull**** ‘us versus them’ mentality.

Until we can do that, we’ll be back here every time something like this happens going over the same old ground.

JUST HELP EACH OTHER OUT ON THE ROADS PLEASE, IT ISN’T HARD.


AMEN!!

[Chops]

I certainly don’t disagree with anything that’s been said , on both side of the coin really.
But when I watch a bike rider go through two sets of red lights, after squeezing past several cars,,, I really wonder about the mentality of them.

So we we have to give them a wide birth when passing them, but they can lean on our car to stop themselves from falling over after over balancing, because there’s not enough room between the gutter and us,, that’s quite ok 👍 🤬 No doubt we’d have been abused if it was the other way around.
Im sure if a car had gone through the lights, every man and his dog would have been up in arms, and rightfully so to.

There just seems to be a major arrogance factor with a lot of people on the roads these days, both cars and bikes.

[Disco Muppet]

Some of the posts in this thread, on both sides, are exactly what’s wrong with society today. [emoji849]

[350RRC]

.................So we we have to give them a wide birth when passing them...............

Coz they've got big heads?

DL

[trout1105]

I don't have ANY problems with push bikes on the road, They have just as much right to be there as I have in my opinion and I always give them a wide berth Especially kids on bikes.
There Must have been a reason why Old Mate threw her keys in the bush and I suppose we will never know what it was.
Yes it was a bit extreme But Much better than resorting to violence which is what usually happens in these road rage incidents and I highly doubt that both parties here were completely innocent.


It wasn't that long ago some dash cam footage of some bloke punching a woman out did the rounds.
In the wash out of that Both parties ended up getting charged by the coppers So one persons version of these sort of events doesn't necessarily constitute the Truth of what actually occurred.

[V8Ian]

I certainly don’t disagree with anything that’s been said , on both side of the coin really.
But when I watch a bike rider go through two sets of red lights, after squeezing past several cars,,, I really wonder about the mentality of them.

So we we have to give them a wide birth when passing them, but they can lean on our car to stop themselves from falling over after over balancing, because there’s not enough room between the gutter and us,, that’s quite ok 👍 🤬 No doubt we’d have been abused if it was the other way around.
Im sure if a car had gone through the lights, every man and his dog would have been up in arms, and rightfully so to.

There just seems to be a major arrogance factor with a lot of people on the roads these days, both cars and bikes.
Fair go Mr Chops, The Osmonds - "One Bad Apple" (The Osmond Brothers) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yrx9pezxF8)
Anymore than one goose in a four wheel drive is representative of all four wheel drivers.

[rangieman]

Some of the posts in this thread, on both sides, are exactly what’s wrong with society today. [emoji849]
Pot calling the kettle black considering you would burn a business down [bighmmm]

[rangieman]

I certainly don’t disagree with anything that’s been said , on both side of the coin really.
But when I watch a bike rider go through two sets of red lights, after squeezing past several cars,,, I really wonder about the mentality of them.

So we we have to give them a wide birth when passing them, but they can lean on our car to stop themselves from falling over after over balancing, because there’s not enough room between the gutter and us,, that’s quite ok 👍 🤬 No doubt we’d have been abused if it was the other way around.
Im sure if a car had gone through the lights, every man and his dog would have been up in arms, and rightfully so to.

There just seems to be a major arrogance factor with a lot of people on the roads these days, both cars and bikes.
Oh but if we were real humans we would simply hand our license in:wallbash:

[Eevo]

Pot calling the kettle black considering you would burn a business down [bighmmm]


muppet is smarter than that.
he would go get one of us to do it while he got himself an allabi.

[Disco Muppet]

Pot calling the kettle black considering you would burn a business down [bighmmm]

What’s the matter Chris? Can’t take a joke [emoji6]
And you’re a fine one to talk of black pots...

[101RRS]

These threads are the greatest [smilebigeye]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/973.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/21Unusq)7952e285cc5aac6d3dca305714dc8e04--children-movies-family-movies (https://flic.kr/p/21Unusq) by Garry Collins (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150171671@N02/), on Flickr

[rangieman]

What’s the matter Chris? Can’t take a joke [emoji6]
And you’re a fine one to talk of black pots...
Just for you mate[wink11]:Rolling::TakeABow:

[Chops]

Fair go Mr Chops, The Osmonds - "One Bad Apple" (The Osmond Brothers) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yrx9pezxF8)
Anymore than one goose in a four wheel drive is representative of all four wheel drivers.


haha,, where do you find this stuff?? :eek2: :Rolling:

As the song says,,, I dont care [bigwhistle] [wink11] And besides,,, in a D4,, do we count (??) [biggrin]

Yeah, I know he is "one" rider,, but we see this a fair bit in Melbourne,, and what makes it even better/worse for them,,, they just made they're own movie that actually shows them busting red lights,, go figure. :bangin:

[trog]

I have seen quite a few motorcycle and scooter riders do the same , often from the the dedicated bicycle lane. As has been said before , why are bikes accepted in most other countries but here ?

[Eevo]

I have seen quite a few motorcycle and scooter riders do the same , often from the the dedicated bicycle lane. As has been said before , why are bikes accepted in most other countries but here ?

cause we're not a third world country?

[Mick_Marsh]

It appears they have similar issues in the UK.
Cyclists are a menace and should be banned from the roads | Metro News (http://metro.co.uk/2015/11/05/cyclists-are-a-menace-and-should-be-banned-from-the-roads-5482050/)

[trog]

Last time I looked Europe North America and even Japan were fairly advanced, but for someone bemoaning the money spent on bitumen , surely even you would see a pushy would have less wear and tear than heavier vehicles ?

[sam_d]

I have seen quite a few motorcycle and scooter riders do the same , often from the the dedicated bicycle lane. As has been said before , why are bikes accepted in most other countries but here ?

It's quite simple really. It's all about Australia's "macho" culture. Too many fall far short of what they think is required to live up to certain societal expectations so need to make themselves feel better. And how do they make up for their shortfalls? The same as any bully - pick on the weak/vulnerable kid or, in the case of Australia, driving your car in a manner that endangers a cyclist.

Just like the bully knows the weak kid can't or won't hit back, drivers know they can't come to harm themselves if their close pass goes wrong and they end up making contact and know they can speed off to avoid any confrontation.

That's my analysis anyway :)

[pop058]

It's quite simple really. It's all about Australia's "macho" culture. Too many fall far short of what they think is required to live up to certain societal expectations so need to make themselves feel better. And how do they make up for their shortfalls? The same as any bully - pick on the weak/vulnerable kid or, in the case of Australia, driving your car in a manner that endangers a cyclist.

Just like the bully knows the weak kid can't or won't hit back, drivers know they can't come to harm themselves if their close pass goes wrong and they end up making contact and know they can speed off to avoid any confrontation.

That's my analysis anyway :)

In all fairness, I think there would be at least an equal number of cyclist that ride "in a manner that endangers a cyclist". [wink11]

[sam_d]

In all fairness, I think there would be at least an equal number of cyclist that ride "in a manner that endangers a cyclist". [wink11]

Yes, you're probably right :)

[rangieman]

So they get a police escort and blatantly break the law :bat:
See for your self and you be the judge[bighmmm]
The Hell Ride Documentary Preview - Bike Chaser Blog (https://www.bikechaser.com.au/blog/hell-ride-mini-documentary-preview/)

[bee utey]

cause we're a third world country.

FTFY

[Mick_Marsh]

In all fairness, I think there would be at least an equal number of cyclist that ride "in a manner that endangers a cyclist". [wink11]
Category: | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/susie-obrien/why-cyclists-should-be-more-accountable-on-our-roads/news-story/9fc6887ecd5200fd251e70d0c27e0d04)

The opening lines of the article:


Why cyclists should be more accountable on our roads

IT’S OFFICIAL. Nearly half of all cyclists can’t blame anyone else for their serious accidents.
Monash University research shows 48 per cent of cycling accidents involve no one but the cyclist themselves, so it’s time everyone stopped blaming motorists.

[bee utey]

Category: | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/susie-obrien/why-cyclists-should-be-more-accountable-on-our-roads/news-story/9fc6887ecd5200fd251e70d0c27e0d04)

The opening lines of the article:

What about the 52%?

[Tins]

I don't condone her ignorance, and if she isn't a coward she would hand in her licence before she kills someone.

Am I to take it then that you ARE condoning the actions of the cyclist? You are telling me that you are part of the problem, not the solution. Great.

[AndyG]

I think we are missing the point. She was driving a KIA, mandatory upgrade time.
We will never know what happened, did she clip the cyclist, fail to indicate, fail to interprete his failure to indicate, or merely going too slow on a good fast bit, impedind his progress. Not that cyclists ever impede motorists,.
But ultimately theft is theft, and if tracked down, oopsno rego, he should be charged

[trog]

VLAD laws for the cyclists might be a start. Seems to have reduced the bikie presence , so why wouldn't it work in reducing bicycles?
Emphasis on the sarcasm.

[Mick_Marsh]

What about the 52%?
Collisions with cars, trucks, trains, trams, pedestrians and other cyclists.

[POD]

Cyclist: (leaning in through car window and fiddling with keys) "is there a, ah, button that you have to press or something with these keys?"
Driver: "You have to push in and then turn."
Cyclist: "Ah, that's it." (removes keys and tosses them down embankment)

[Roverlord off road spares]

Recently in Victoria we have had TV ads instructing motorists they must keep at least a 1 metre between them an the cyclists, and even more when traveling over 60kph.. All well said and done , then you pull up at a set of traffic lights you are stopped , you are in the left lane. Then a cyclists comes along and stops at the lights. You find he /she is now less than a meter from you. Isn't the cyclist putting themselves in danger? Usually as the lights are about to change impatient cyclists start to pedal and pedal front of the car, the car then has to wait before they can either mover off or overtake the cyclist safely. A car can accelerate faster than a bike.
I've had situations when stopped at the traffic lights and a cyclists with all the gear, and has bike shoes and feet in his pedal stirrups to no lower their leg to support their bike, but lean on my vehicles to prop themselves up. This has happen on numerous occasions. Even seen the holding onto rear of trams and buses.

Shouldn't there be more education for cyclists that they need to be more careful and responsible also?

[Milton477]

Remember, there are always 3 sides to the story: each of the aggrieved parties versions & the truth. In journalism, never let the truth stand in the way of a good story.
'Good men' are probably arguing as a result of the bad journalism.
I find it's better to go & fix the landy while waiting for the truth, that way the landy is always fixed as the truth never comes out.

[solmanic]

But ultimately theft is theft, and if tracked down, oopsno rego, he should be charged

But was it actually theft? Yes, he took the keys but he did not remain in possession of them, presumably did not damage them, she witnessed where he then put them and she was free to retrieve them herself. And if it is considered theft, then it can only be for the value of the keys but wait... they were recovered. This is a fascinating scenario as I would love to know how the law actually views this.

Without knowing all the details I wonder what offence was actually committed. I will make some assumptions here since that hasn't stopped everyone else...

Assuming he didn't touch or threaten the driver - there can't be any assault charge (again, we don't know the details of what went on leading up to the incident).
Intimidation is also a shaky call because the cyclist was on a bicycle, and the driver was in a car so there is possibly a counter claim from the cyclist - we'll never know.
He chucked the keys but didn't physically detain her, so there was no deprivation of liberty.
I don't know whether reaching into an open car window counts as trespass.
And like I said above, assuming the keys and car weren't damaged, there is no property damage offence.

In Victoria there is no specific road rage offence as road rage is generally used to cover a variety of other assault or property damage offences none of which seem to apply here.

Lets' stretch the bow a bit further...
If someone threatens you with a loaded gun and, by some means, you empty the bullets and throw them away, are you liable?

There has been at least one occasion when I have seriously considered throwing a motorist's keys away. A mate & I were cycling and were threatened by a driver who repeatedly tried to run us off the road for no reason that we could fathom. The guy was hurling abuse at us and then stoped in the middle of the road 150m up ahead and jumped out ready to fight us. I am sure he was on ice as there was no logical reason for him to go off the richter scale like he did. Neither of us responded and we slowed down as we approached him. He then seemed to think better of the situation (my mate is quite solid and the driver would have been an idiot to try it on) and got in his car and tore off. I would have had no hesitation in chucking that guy's keys over the embankment for two reasons.
1. He should not have been driving as he was clearly having issues.
2. I would not have wanted him to follow us.
Having said that I would have ridden directly to the cop shop to report it.

My point is this. The driver must have done something to elicit the response from the cyclist. What she did we will never know and she surely won't tell. The result is we now will only ever get her side of the story and that, coupled with the media's eagerness to whip the motoring public into a frenzy whenever cyclists are mentioned, means the cyclist is 100% wrong and has no justification for his actions - period. But I hope that people here are smarter than that and can see that this is a lopsided incomplete story and anyone calling for the cyclist to be lynched based on 50% of the information is just hopping on the media fuelled hate bandwagon.

Let's face it - if motorists & cyclists stopped hating on each other, what would the media have to report? I wonder if it was a pedestrian who threw the woman's keys away would it have even made it into the news?

[solmanic]

Recently in Victoria we have had TV ads instructing motorists they must keep at least a 1 metre between them an the cyclists, and even more when traveling over 60kph.. All well said and done , then you pull up at a set of traffic lights you are stopped , you are in the left lane. Then a cyclists comes along and stops at the lights. You find he /she is now less than a meter from you. Isn't the cyclist putting themselves in danger? Usually as the lights are about to change impatient cyclists start to pedal and pedal front of the car, the car then has to wait before they can either mover off or overtake the cyclist safely. A car can accelerate faster than a bike.
I've had situations when stopped at the traffic lights and a cyclists with all the gear, and has bike shoes and feet in his pedal stirrups to no lower their leg to support their bike, but lean on my vehicles to prop themselves up. This has happen on numerous occasions. Even seen the holding onto rear of trams and buses.

Shouldn't there be more education for cyclists that they need to be more careful and responsible also?

I think you'll find that below 30kph the 1m rule doesn't apply, for that exact reason. At least that's how it is in Qld. And it certainly doesn't apply when traffic is stationary. Besides that, it's a one way rule and bicycles can go as close as they like to vehicles because, well, they're only bicycles and generally not capable of causing death or injury to a motorist.

[grey_ghost]

This is indeed an interesting thread / topic. My initial response is "she must have done something for him to re-act in this way", followed by "still - he shouldn't have re-acted the way that he did."

But let me tell you a true story that happened to me.

One day I had finished a squash training session with a friend, and I was driving my car back to his place - in a southerly direction. My friend was in the passenger seat.
A cyclist was riding towards us (northbound) and jumped off his bike and kicked the side of my car as we passed.
I stopped my car, got out and said: "Mate - what's your problem? What is this about?"

He replied: "You just tried to run me over - 2 guys in a red car. At the corner of X and Y"

To which I (and my mate replied) "Mate - we just came from the opposite direction, we've been at X squash centre - you've got the wrong car, wrong guys"

Obviously he was upset, and in the heat of the moment made a bad choice... So it does happen.

PS - I was driving a red car, it wasn't me, but there was no damage to my car - otherwise I might have made a bad decision...

PPS - I agree with Homestar, both sides need to take a deep breath and relax sometimes... Now I'm off to go and watch "Falling Down"... [thumbsupbig]

Cheers,
GG.

[101RRS]

Solmanic - it is called "road rage" which is an offence in itself. On the issue of theft and the keys - when you steal something it doesn't matter what you subsequently do with them it is still theft.

I bet it would not have been an issue if the woman had been a 6'5" male body builder with tatts and a bikie jacket - it is all about where the power lies.

[Gordie]

Without knowing all the details I wonder what offence was actually committed. ?I can only speak for SA, but possibly similar interstate, one of the offences would be 'assault', as what is not widely known, is that you do not have to be touched to be assaulted. If one is in fear of harm, that is an assault. Battery does not have to take place.

I dare say there is a theft too, as it matters not what the thief does with the property once in their possession, but if he intends to, or does deprive you of your property, it is theft. Just because a car thief burns your car when he is finished with it(throws it away effectively), doesn't make him less of a thief.

[NavyDiver]

I agree totally. Seems to me that some here are keen to lynch the car driver.



Sorry, but under no circumstances is it OK for someone to take the action that the cyclist is alleged to have taken. I wonder if the big tough guy would have taken the same action against a ute full of brickies. Somehow I doubt it.

As to the Police: Dunno about SA, but in Vic police can charge a driver if two independent witnesses report the same incident.

"Vic police can charge a driver if two independent witnesses report the same incident" if you can convince the busy police to take the 2 reports![bighmmm]

Mia Culpa- I have taken car keys once and tossed them a long long way[bigwhistle] The driver was trying to run over adults and kids on roller bladers in a skating class in a car park near Albert Park MSAC on a very quiet Sunday Morning. He drove at me for staring at him with my jaw on the ground perhaps, he stopped when I told him to **** OFF. He hopped out of his car with a machetee and chased me with it. As a runner, I happily lead him around the lake slowing at times enough to let him keep him following me. I looped back around the gent when he started spewing is guts up and gasping for air. I went back to the car park to call the police. Several others had already called the police ( they never came) His key keys were last seen flying god know where and yes you might think I am a ***** for doing so but I am luckily like a duck on that. Our hard working police cannot always protect kids and adults from every situation. I did tell the police about my key throwing and the location of the car and grumpy gent.

I was not in Lycra at the time promise[thumbsupbig]

Hope this added a little to the Popcorn observers[biggrin][biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]

[AndyG]

There was an incident in W.A over keys being taken out of the bailiffs car during a farm possession. And subsequently returned when the Police asked nicely.
The removalist was charged and convicted, it made the news because the gent was a Politician and it affected his ability to hold his seat , taken is stolen.
If i stole your wallet and threw it in Sydney Harbor and you knew where it was, it's still stolen.

Or two stupid gits doesnt make one make one right, to paraphrase

[VladTepes]

It is not up to us to take the law into our own hands :bat:
What you did will not teach said driver a thing except to wind her window up to prevent loony bike riders invading their space [wink11] perhaps
Also what you did i bet you could be charged for even if she was breaking the law so be careful in future my friend as we all live in a totally cotton balled state of losers rights [bighmmm] possibly. but it's not very likely as she would have to go to the cops, admit she was on her mobile and what I did.
You should be careful doing such good deeds just imagine if Bf or hubby were close by of following im sure you would not have seen it coming [FishSlap]. Yeah but at least I had head protection on ! :)
Two wrongs don`t make a right [thumbsupbig]

"Wrong" is such a flexible word...

:)

[Mick_Marsh]

It is not up to us to take the law into our own hands :bat:
What you did will not teach said driver a thing except to wind her window up to prevent loony bike riders invading their space [wink11] perhaps
Also what you did i bet you could be charged for even if she was breaking the law so be careful in future my friend as we all live in a totally cotton balled state of losers rights [bighmmm] possibly. but it's not very likely as she would have to go to the cops, admit she was on her mobile and what I did.
You should be careful doing such good deeds just imagine if Bf or hubby were close by of following im sure you would not have seen it coming [FishSlap]. Yeah but at least I had head protection on ! :)
Two wrongs don`t make a right [thumbsupbig]

"Wrong" is such a flexible word...

:)
Why would she need to admit anything? All she needs to do is accuse you of assult.

[solmanic]

Solmanic - it is called "road rage" which is an offence in itself. On the issue of theft and the keys - when you steal something it doesn't matter what you subsequently do with them it is still theft.

I bet it would not have been an issue if the woman had been a 6'5" male body builder with tatts and a bikie jacket - it is all about where the power lies.

There is no "road rage" offence under Vic law. Road rage is just a covering term for a number of other offences that may occur like assault, intimidation, property damage.
Is road rage a crime? It depends on the case, say Victoria Police (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/is-road-rage-a-crime-it-depends-on-the-case-say-victoria-police-20170713-gxabrk.html)

Yeah, the cyclist would probably be convicted of theft but based on the real value of the item, and the fact that it was never more than a few metres from the driver and recovered undamaged, minimums would apply. Additionally, the police were not actually required to recover the item. She could have just as easily called RACV since she knew roughly where they were.

[solmanic]

I think the major disconnection between drivers & cyclists is a complete lack of understanding of what happens in your brain when a vehicle comes too close to you. The extreme difference in speed & mass automatically triggers the "fight or flight" response. Any close call with a motor vehicle, intentional or not, is a real near-death experience for a cyclist. This is why there are so many stories of cyclists arcing up at motorists who are oblivious that they have even done anything wrong. It's referred to on cycling forums as SMIDSY - Sorry Mate I Didn't See You.

This incident started with something the driver did, but we will never know what. As others have correctly pointed out, two wrongs don't make a right, but two things are certain - the driver did something to trigger the rider's reaction either intentionally (culpable), or unintentionally (negligent). Yes, the rider hasn't had the guts to front up and tell his side of the story, but you can bet the driver isn't telling the full story either.

[superquag]

😅😅😅😅😅
Somehow i KNEW these comments would appear!!
"Oh popcorn, where for art thou?"

😅😅

"wherefore" is olde(r) English and thus be one word, not two...

[biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]

[Homestar]

Don’t shoot the messenger but I did get a giggle from this even though this isn’t consistent with my views.
133591

[fitzy]

"wherefore" is olde(r) English and thus be one word, not two...

[biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]

Is thus a shortened form of therefore ?

[Mick_Marsh]

Don’t shoot the messenger but I did get a giggle from this even though this isn’t consistent with my views.
133591

I passed a cyclist on the Glenelg tonight.
The cyclist was doing the right thing.
All the vehicles in the conga line I was in were doing the right thing.
Your invention would have been useless.

[bee utey]

Don’t shoot the messenger but I did get a giggle from this even though this isn’t consistent with my views.
133591

A mate of mine has a similar gadget on his treadly, an extendible fibreglass pole with a small flag on it that makes a screeching noise on the paint of closely passing cars. :ohyes:

[Svengali0]

I think the biggest problem - which is shown here in this thread, and every thread that runs on cyclists, here and other Australian forums I’m on is the ‘Us versus them’ mentality that most come out with defending ‘their’ side to the death.

I’m sure that the woman involved here was oblivious to her surroundings and did something to cause the response from the rider, but his actions are reprehensible even if he did so it in the spur of the moment. BOTH of them, but at least the woman stopped to see what was going on, the cyclist in this case was IMO too cowardly to stop and discuss this which may have led to the woman’s actually learning something, instead she just ends up being the victim of a road rage incident - no winners there.

There are dumb and angry cyclists, dumb and angry motor cyclists, dumb and angry motorists. What we need to do is learn how to take a deep breath and all work towards making the roads usable by everyone in a safe and polite manner. No idea why we can’t do this here in Australia, Europe seem to have this down pat and all road users get along fine.

Despite who was right and who was wrong here, give cyclists a bit of room - it really isn’t that hard, and cyclists - don’t do dumb illegal **** in front of motorists all the time. If both of these things could happen there’d be a lot less problems and a lot less of the bull**** ‘us versus them’ mentality.

Until we can do that, we’ll be back here every time something like this happens going over the same old ground.

JUST HELP EACH OTHER OUT ON THE ROADS PLEASE, IT ISN’T HARD.


It turns out that no one here knows the detail of what actually happened though some have expressed opinion based upon a news paper article, others on personal knowledge of the road. Me included 'cyclist's intervention'.

The truth is that cyclists and motor cycle riders are very much at risk- motor car drivers, bus drivers, ute drivers, truck drivers can be either careful, or casual, or non-cognisant, or outright malicious when it comes to the safety of road users on two wheels. If statistical survey were to be conducted, I am going to put it out there that of the four separate categories of behaviour just outlined, drivers of four+ wheeled vehicles would overall be evenly split into at least one of these categories (I'll use the term attentiveness and another term malicious to summarise here) when getting behind the wheel- for a saturday shop, or a courier run, or road journey. You have to want to be careful in order to be careful. We all make mistakes of course, sometimes, this results in the blood of others.

Us and Them.
Polarities like this are very common as we all know. I find that inner city professional or 'intensive' push bike riders can demonstrate extreme aggression, or assertiviness at times. Thinking possibly along the lines of 'No! You Move out the way'. Generally, riders in rural or regional settings are well aware of the facts of physics and abide by 'stay out of harms way'. This is what I do whether I'm riding my Specialised road bike or my BMW R1100GS. I also hold HR and car licence and there are times when my patience has flown out the window when it comes to careless fools in other four wheeled vehicles.

We have all witnessed the full range of idiot behaviours.
From things like two wheeled de-baffled exhaust motor cycle riding fools doing warp speed wearing the obligatory singlet and thongs through a built up area, to idiot bicycle peletons hogging half a lane or more of a 100km/h stretch of the Kings Highway half way to Canberra, forcing road users to cross double lines against difficult to see oncoming traffic, to my personal favourite (while cycling) of having malicious mongrels try to grab the handlebar of my bike while I'm intent on riding up a hill, burning off those calories from last night's 'one too many', or creeping up behind me and strategically honking their horn just to watch my backside freak out and almost lose it. Being on a pushbike riding distances induces a trance like state of mind, warm muscles and a cool day- it is a pretty special state to be in. These are examples of intent.

Examples of carelessness are just as bad in their own way. For some reason, I have the bias that if a car or bike rider chooses to operate something very cheap, or cheap and poorly maintained, or overly blinged, or unnecessarily loud, or overly lifted- I tend to 'reach for my gun' meaning, I expect the worst at any given moment, I am on edge a little, or a lot. I slow down and get out of the way, sometimes stop and let them go their way praying no one up front is going to suffer. But carelessness goes by many names and it is one of the worst driver or rider traits in the lexicon. One can't really 'talk to' another person's discrete episode of carelessness but by direct counsel and direct consequence at, or shortly after the event. Careless people charmingly forget...Distracted people have other stuff on their minds.

And to those that hoot on about police and illegalities- only the presence of a uniform and a marked car, or the presence of surveillance is going to inhibit the worst of behaviours from driver and rider. 'Morality' is best left to evening chat in quiet settings.

In the present case, it is true we know little. We can imagine, but we can't opinion directly (to mangle the term into a verb).

Just my two cents worth.

Cheers
steu

[superquag]

It turns out that no one here knows the detail of what actually happened though some have expressed opinion based upon a news paper article, others on personal knowledge of the road. Me included 'cyclist's intervention'.

The truth is that cyclists and motor cycle riders are very much at risk- motor car drivers, bus drivers, ute drivers, truck drivers can be either careful, or casual, or non-cognisant, or outright malicious when it comes to the safety of road users on two wheels. If statistical survey were to be conducted, I am going to put it out there that of the four separate categories of behaviour just outlined, drivers of four+ wheeled vehicles would overall be evenly split into at least one of these categories (I'll use the term attentiveness and another term malicious to summarise here) when getting behind the wheel- for a saturday shop, or a courier run, or road journey. You have to want to be careful in order to be careful. We all make mistakes of course, sometimes, this results in the blood of others.

Us and Them.
Polarities like this are very common as we all know. I find that inner city professional or 'intensive' push bike riders can demonstrate extreme aggression, or assertiviness at times. Thinking possibly along the lines of 'No! You Move out the way'. Generally, riders in rural or regional settings are well aware of the facts of physics and abide by 'stay out of harms way'. This is what I do whether I'm riding my Specialised road bike or my BMW R1100GS. I also hold HR and car licence and there are times when my patience has flown out the window when it comes to careless fools in other four wheeled vehicles.

We have all witnessed the full range of idiot behaviours.
From things like two wheeled de-baffled exhaust motor cycle riding fools doing warp speed wearing the obligatory singlet and thongs through a built up area, to idiot bicycle peletons hogging half a lane or more of a 100km/h stretch of the Kings Highway half way to Canberra, forcing road users to cross double lines against difficult to see oncoming traffic, to my personal favourite (while cycling) of having malicious mongrels try to grab the handlebar of my bike while I'm intent on riding up a hill, burning off those calories from last night's 'one too many', or creeping up behind me and strategically honking their horn just to watch my backside freak out and almost lose it. Being on a pushbike riding distances induces a trance like state of mind, warm muscles and a cool day- it is a pretty special state to be in. These are examples of intent.

Examples of carelessness are just as bad in their own way. For some reason, I have the bias that if a car or bike rider chooses to operate something very cheap, or cheap and poorly maintained, or overly blinged, or unnecessarily loud, or overly lifted- I tend to 'reach for my gun' meaning, I expect the worst at any given moment, I am on edge a little, or a lot. I slow down and get out of the way, sometimes stop and let them go their way praying no one up front is going to suffer. But carelessness goes by many names and it is one of the worst driver or rider traits in the lexicon. One can't really 'talk to' another person's discrete episode of carelessness but by direct counsel and direct consequence at, or shortly after the event. Careless people charmingly forget...Distracted people have other stuff on their minds.

And to those that hoot on about police and illegalities- only the presence of a uniform and a marked car, or the presence of surveillance is going to inhibit the worst of behaviours from driver and rider. 'Morality' is best left to evening chat in quiet settings.

In the present case, it is true we know little. We can imagine, but we can't opinion directly (to mangle the term into a verb).

Just my two cents worth.

Cheers
steu

Well said ! Don't under-value yourself... - at least $1.00 [biggrin][bigsmile][biggrin]

[superquag]

Is thus a shortened form of therefore ?

... Nope ...
[smilebigeye].

[NavyDiver]

Popcorn is cold already?

[bee utey]

Popcorn is cold already?

Nope.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blz__aq9rlA

:vampire:

[trog]

Ha , one way to deal with those annoying food scoots !

[Roverlord off road spares]

Not a cyclist , but this road rage is excavator and car, it makes the key throwing insignificant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3EZSZTwC0Y

[trout1105]

PERFECT [thumbsupbig][biggrin]

[Homestar]

A setup but funny.

[Tote]

Interestingly on the theft angle it may vary between states, in the ACT a colleague of mine recently had an incident where some little ****s were using a jammer in his unit complex to prevent people locking their cars. He caught the offenders at 10:00pm ( on security camera footage after the event) going through the vehicles in the complex pinching anything that was left in the open vehicles. Wet to the police and the outcome was that the only person that could be charged was the vehicle owners for leaving a motor vehicle unlocked in a public place....

Cars weren't locked so no break and enter
Trespass does not apply to vehicles
No evidence of Jammer and if there was it would be an ACMA issue, not a police one.

In the ACT it would be difficult to find an offence to charge the cyclist with.

Regards,
Tote

[trog]

Interesting but too complex, I would just like to ride to work or the shops or the cycle path without being abused , targeted , esp if like in some places in Australia or most places overseas riding without a helmet.

[V8Ian]

Bring your bike to Bellthorpe, Trog. It'll get further than the Red Rocket. :tease::tease::tease:

[Eevo]

Interestingly on the theft angle it may vary between states, in the ACT a colleague of mine recently had an incident where some little ****s were using a jammer in his unit complex to prevent people locking their cars. He caught the offenders at 10:00pm ( on security camera footage after the event) going through the vehicles in the complex pinching anything that was left in the open vehicles. Wet to the police and the outcome was that the only person that could be charged was the vehicle owners for leaving a motor vehicle unlocked in a public place....

Cars weren't locked so no break and enter
Trespass does not apply to vehicles
No evidence of Jammer and if there was it would be an ACMA issue, not a police one.

In the ACT it would be difficult to find an offence to charge the cyclist with.

Regards,
Tote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4ZYOBzEEs

[trog]

True , it isn't putting on too many miles. Though I do need new shoes since buying her 😆
Maybe a new thread of who I see when walking home would be good for a laugh!

[V8Ian]

True , it isn't putting on too many miles. Though I do need new shoes since buying her 😆
Maybe a new thread of who I see when walking home would be good for a laugh!
[bigrolf] John Cleese would be a good start. [biggrin]

[trog]

You making fun of me ?

[V8Ian]

Would I? [bigwhistle]

[trog]

One would think so, but as I do know you I attribute this to a computer glitch.

[V8Ian]

One would think so, but as I do know you I attribute this to a computer glitch.
:Rolling: