Secondary turbo problem (potential)

[gotaflat]

ok,

I know there has been a few threads on this - so apologies. anyway - getting the occasional "red triangle" of death, restricted performance warning and associated go slow (SDv6 3.0 MY11 230,000kms - and had since new)

so after a replacing an actuator??? still and issue. as such no fault code logged according to LR - but may be we replace the turbo ...at 8.5k ... well F@%k me - for 8.5k I want some definitive diagnosis, not a 'lets just start replacing' (body off I hear?? can i access the actuator?)

Can you point me in the right direction? I am assuming a dirty actuator rather than a internal problem with the turbo?

FYI I can replace a turbo on the 300 hp John Deere tractor in about 4 hours and 1.5k!

Thanks

[DiscoJeffster]

Be aware there is a front actuator and a rear actuator as such. One blocks off the intake to the secondary turbo and the other the exhaust. I’ve had the exhaust one replaced on my car previously and yes, restricted performance was noted.

Many things cause it though and an actuator I thought did record faults that pointed to it? The other one is a leak. That normally reports as a P006a algorithmic failure (the air into the engine doesn’t match the expected MAP sensor value). I’ve got this now and it’s the throttle body unit has cracked where it splits into the y feed to the left and right intakes. It’s not uncommon to get a cracked intake manifold. Have they done a smoke test to confirm there are no leaks in the intake somewhere?

Maybe seek another opinion?

[Discovered 1 2]

Don’t you love the “body off let’s start replacing stuff” knee jerk response... there’s been quite a lot of money saved recently by aurlorians who’ve found split hoses or sticky actuators from what I’ve read and experienced.

[justinc]

Found a sdv6 3.0 d4 today where someone hadn't fitted the intake adapter to the throttle body correctly. It had popped half off and had actually touched the fan blades under boost...and yes was limping when pushed hard...

Jc

[Graeme]

Was the isolation valve replaced or the solenoid that operated the vacuum chamber on the isolation valve replaced?

Are you sure that no DTC is stored? Any trigger for restricted performance including a malfunctioning turbo would be expected to store a code.

Suggestion - buy yourself a diagnostic code reader specific to your vehicle (eg the IIDtool) so that you can read any codes before switching off the engine, not that faults triggering RP are normally cleared on restart.

[gotaflat]

Was the isolation valve replaced or the solenoid that operated the vacuum chamber on the isolation valve replaced?

Are you sure that no DTC is stored? Any trigger for restricted performance including a malfunctioning turbo would be expected to store a code.

Suggestion - buy yourself a diagnostic code reader specific to your vehicle (eg the IIDtool) so that you can read any codes before switching off the engine, not that faults triggering RP are normally cleared on restart.

Yep need a Diagnostic tool. LR tells me no fault shown..or specific... seems like something left behind by a cow.

Solenoid was replaced at $415

[Graeme]

Ouch! The solenoid is mounted at the top front of the engine so easy access but perhaps quite some time was incurred arriving at the conclusion. However LR published a procedure to test for a faulty solenoid or vacuum chamber which only takes a few minutes disconnecting and reconnecting a vacuum hose with the engine idling. Obviously the test wasn't done otherwise the solenoid would not have been replaced because it would have passed the test.

Find an independent LR workshop that is prepared to discover the real cause.

[LRD414]

Or perhaps the $415 "solenoid" is actually the complete solenoid actuated isolation valve? Sometimes parts descriptions in the database are poor or obscure and you did mention "actuator" in the original post. Basically you don't have enough information to make more than a semi-educated guess. Maybe some troubleshooting diagnostics were undertaken, maybe not. Again, you haven't listed much to go on. For example, my recent restricted performance event that produced the same codes as the classic sticky secondary isolation valve was only a fault inlet hose. I would be asking a lot more questions and nothing beats being armed with knowledge yourself. The dealer's diagnostic & fault finding system is pretty good in my experience so perhaps the process has been poorly explained. Or not, hard to say with what you've described here.

Scott

[DiscoJeffster]

Yep need a Diagnostic tool. LR tells me no fault shown..or specific... seems like something left behind by a cow.

Solenoid was replaced at $415

If you do buy an IID tool (you can also find someone local to read your faults), you need to go into settings and change to ‘Pending’ errors to see all of them. By default only confirmed ones show and most Restricted Performance fall into Pending type. Just worth knowing as it took me a little while to work that out myself in the middle of nowhere.

[gotaflat]

Thanks Scott,

well had a an independent look at it today (very appreciative as busy and working on several job). Codes were obscure and air flow problems....once we played around with MAF, inlet hoses performance restriction now comes on instantly in second gear/high revs.

Code pointing to inlet pressure high one bank, low on the second bank (line b - one to secondary turbo, closer to the fire wall). oddly oil on the air filter, and through the suction side of intake, air filter maf and piped to turbo ....the like it had been sucked in ... cleaned MAF - bit of relief, but then fault. replaced the one that was low...issue still there. again codes were high inlet pressure???

Any ideas - more help from LR and independent(s) tomorrow i hope...



Or perhaps the $415 "solenoid" is actually the complete solenoid actuated isolation valve? Sometimes parts descriptions in the database are poor or obscure and you did mention "actuator" in the original post. Basically you don't have enough information to make more than a semi-educated guess. Maybe some troubleshooting diagnostics were undertaken, maybe not. Again, you haven't listed much to go on. For example, my recent restricted performance event that produced the same codes as the classic sticky secondary isolation valve was only a fault inlet hose. I would be asking a lot more questions and nothing beats being armed with knowledge yourself. The dealer's diagnostic & fault finding system is pretty good in my experience so perhaps the process has been poorly explained. Or not, hard to say with what you've described here.

Scott

[Graeme]

It would be prudent to check that the linkages on the primary turbo's vacuum chamber move freely as they have been known to slightly seize, requiring only some lubricant then coaxed into moving using a long screw-driver or similar from under the left guard.

If you can get it to fault under a low rev, high load situation then it might provide more clues as to the cause.

[Ferret]

... oddly oil on the air filter, and through the suction side of intake, air filter maf and piped to turbo ....the like it had been sucked in ... cleaned MAF - bit of relief, but then fault. replaced the one that was low...issue still there. again codes were high inlet pressure???

Any ideas - more help from LR and independent(s) tomorrow i hope...

I noticed something like you describe (oil through the suction side of the intake) when this happened me. The sound I described from the drivers side of the engine in this thread was said by the dealer to actually be flow from the turbo passing back through the air box - hence the oil. Not sure how that happens but that was their eventual explanation for it once it was back on the road.

3.0l Turbo malfunction (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/177883-3-0l-turbo-malfunction.html)

Pictures associated with above thread uploaded again a/c photo bucket fail in original thread.

[gotaflat]

Cheers Ferret,

this gives me something to work with. I do not have the bolts clashing sound - but have a pressure whistle "down" on drivers side. like a turbo flutter on back pressure (waste gate not opening?????) this is only under fault condition. so actuator issue? dirty?? as I cleaned under bonnet and no error for an hour of driving!!

also note the MAF changed today was the wrong one... the code errors n this vid are exactly the same as what read today! Land Rover 3.0 TDV6 MAF Air Mass Temperature problems, Testing & Fixing - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJCVPpZcMPc) we changed A and the error was clearly stating B in error codes today....we though the back MAF was B.


I noticed something like you describe (oil through the suction side of the intake) when this happened me. The sound I described from the drivers side of the engine in this thread was said by the dealer to actually be flow from the turbo passing back through the air box - hence the oil. Not sure how that happens but that was their eventual explanation for it once it was back on the road.

3.0l Turbo malfunction (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/177883-3-0l-turbo-malfunction.html)

Pictures associated with above thread uploaded again a/c photo bucket fail in original thread.

[LRD414]

3.0l Turbo malfunction (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/177883-3-0l-turbo-malfunction.html)
Pictures associated with above thread uploaded again a/c photo bucket fail in original thread.
Fixed the photo links. That's the same solenoid valve that Graeme mentioned earlier in this thread as the possible cause.

Scott