A sad day for Melbourne yesterday

[Roverlord off road spares]

Mental illness and drug addition . Second time some has used a vehicle to cause mass injury and terrify people. But what do we do, what next make the CBD car free?, put up concrete blocks all over the place?
'Not terror-related': Flinders Street driver of Afghan descent and mentally ill (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/not-terrorrelated-flinders-street-driver-of-afghan-descent-and-mentally-ill-20171221-h08yan.html)

[Ean Austral]

Gday Mario,
A very sad day indeed as you say. Can only hope those who are injured make a full and speedy recovery.

i won't post my answers to your questions as it will send the thread to C.A

Merry Christmas and best wishes to all those affected by this incident.


Cheers Ean

[weeds]

Yep...and expect more, easy way to cause mayhem.

Queen St Mall has blocks in place....not overly big and not sure how well they are fixed in.

I now no longer listen to tunes with ear phones jammed into my ears when walking around the CBD......the chances of it actually happening to me is low......

[Tins]

Yep...and expect more, easy way to cause mayhem.

Queen St Mall has blocks in place....not overly big and not sure how well they are fixed in.

I now no longer listen to tunes with ear phones jammed into my ears when walking around the CBD......the chances of it actually happening to me is low......

The ones on Bourke are vehicle proof, apparently. Guess it depends on the vehicle though.

[Tote]

Yep, depends on the vehicle........
https://youtu.be/V33fbfmAgTo


These bollards work well though


https://youtu.be/SHbyW9OeTiQ

Regards,
Tote

[bblaze]

wonder how the bollards would go with a longnose truck, like a Kenworth with a bull bar
cheers
blaze

[trout1105]

So a regular drug user with mental health problems and also a an unlicensed driver deliberately ploughs through pedestrians and this bloke isn't a Terrorist?.
Hmmmmmm

[Ean Austral]

So a regular drug user with mental health problems and also a an unlicensed driver deliberately ploughs through pedestrians and this bloke isn't a Terrorist?.
Hmmmmmm

and according to the local news, muttering about the treatment of muslims...

BUT as you say its not an act of terrorism hmmmmmm

Cheers Ean

[Bearman]

And this is the sort of refugee we (or should I say the powers that be) are allowing into this country. God help us is all I can say.

[DiscoMick]

Terrorism is defined as being 'in pursuit of political aims'.

[Roverlord off road spares]

Yep...and expect more, easy way to cause mayhem.

Queen St Mall has blocks in place....not overly big and not sure how well they are fixed in.

I now no longer listen to tunes with ear phones jammed into my ears when walking around the CBD......the chances of it actually happening to me is low...... The unfortunate reality is there may be copy cats who find this way of causing mayhem easy, it can happen anywhere, doesn't have to occur in the CBD. Explosives are hard to obtain in Australia, but cars and trucks are easy to get.

[rar110]

Afghans came to this country in its early days and made a great contribution.

This is very similar to Anders Behring Breivik’s 2011 right wing killing rampage (85 dead I think) in Norway. Another disaffected misfit.

Previously and probably currently ISIS is very skilled at using media technology to reach out and give people a reason to exist, ie the disaffected, unemployed, mentally ill and others who have nothing to live for except going out in a blaze of glory.

It’s not new and also not too dissimilar to the cannon fodder of the IRA provos. Military tactics are ramping up there too.

The UK and US have home grown converts ready to do similar in the name of Islamic, Christian and right wing extremist ideologies.

Where this bloke came from is not central to the problem. It’s not that simple.

[Eevo]

i think its a miracle that noone was killed.

[Tins]

I'm tipping he wasn't a Buddhist. Could be wrong I guess.

[V8Ian]

:spudnikconfounded:Mod hat firmly on, keep the religion and politics out of it fellows.

[trout1105]

Terrorism is defined as being 'in pursuit of political aims'.

I don't really care how Terrorism is defined this bloke should be thrown in jail and then deported after he has finished his time.
A "Nutter" or not he is Not the sort of immigrant that is welcome in Australia.
This bloke deliberately ran over innocent people in what looks like a "Coppycat" action and even if this isn't defined as a terrorist attack it was still a heinous and cowardly thing to do and he should be punished accordingly.

[rangieman]

Makes you wonder if the authorities are playing on words by making the call that these people are suffering from mental illness i really wonder on that one :bat:

I don`t get why maybe the loony`s dont get all the virgins at the pearly gates if they are certified crazy[bighmmm]

[DiscoMick]

I see it was reported he was on a mental health programme, but missed his appointment the day of the attack. If that is correct and he is bipolar, but thought he was OK and stopped taking his medication because he thought he didn't need it any more, then his delusions would worsen. This is the real issue and affects many people, mostly born here, so his background is not the issue. Mental health is a huge issue in this country.

[Mick_Marsh]

This is the real issue and affects many people, mostly born here, so his background is not the issue. Mental health is a huge issue in this country.

The fact remains, had he not been allowed into the country, this event would not have happened.
Why are we importing other country's mental health problems into Australia? As you say, mental health is a huge issue in this country. About three percent of the population have mental health issues and we are only treating about one third of those. We should be looking after the other two thirds before we import more.

This guy should be stripped of his Australian citizenship, thrown in jail and, when his sentence has been served, sent back to Afghanistan. That is the law here in Australia. We apply it to New Zealanders. We should equally apply it to other nationalities.

[DiscoMick]

This is a health issue.

Peak bodies call for mental health reform after Flinders St carnage
Melbourne car crash: Mental health experts call for reform after Flinders Street carnage - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-23/mental-health-experts-demand-reform-after-flinders-street-attack/9283486)

[V8Ian]

As the law stands, if he has relinquished his original citizenship, to take Australian citizenship, we're stuck with him. The law does not allow the authorities to make anyone stateless.

[Mick_Marsh]

I can't help but see parallels between this event and the Lindt Cafe seige.
Both "new Australians" from the middle east. Both entered Australia as refugees. Both had mental health issues.

This type of person is incompatible with our society and should be removed/isolated from it.

[POD]

Afghans came to this country in its early days and made a great contribution.

This is very similar to Anders Behring Breivik’s 2011 right wing killing rampage (85 dead I think) in Norway. Another disaffected misfit.

Previously and probably currently ISIS is very skilled at using media technology to reach out and give people a reason to exist, ie the disaffected, unemployed, mentally ill and others who have nothing to live for except going out in a blaze of glory.

It’s not new and also not too dissimilar to the cannon fodder of the IRA provos. Military tactics are ramping up there too.

The UK and US have home grown converts ready to do similar in the name of Islamic, Christian and right wing extremist ideologies.

Where this bloke came from is not central to the problem. It’s not that simple.

Anders Breivik always seems to be mentioned in any discussion of terrorism as it is difficult to come up with any other non-Muslim examples. The IRA campaign of the 1970s and 1980s was true terrorism in that it was intended to cow a population into pressuring their government toward a particular political outcome. It is incorrect to refer to the current global plague as 'terrorism' as it is not seeking any particular political outcome but is simply a cohort of people devoutly practicing the tenets of their religion. We're fortunate that most adherents of that religion do not take it seriously enough to be prepared to kill and die for it as it demands of them.

[Mick_Marsh]

As the law stands, if he has relinquished his original citizenship, to take Australian citizenship, we're stuck with him. The law does not allow the authorities to make anyone stateless.

If:
introducing a conditional clause:
synonyms:
on condition that, provided (that), providing (that), presuming (that), supposing (that), assuming (that), on the assumption that, allowing (that), as long as, given that, with the provision/proviso that, with/on the understanding that, if and only if, contingent on, in the event that, allowing that
"if the weather is fine, we can walk to the village".

Do you have information one way or the other? The information I have indicates he has retained his Afghani citizenship. i.e. has dual citizenship.
Monis became an Australian citizen in 2004, and was not *required to relinquish his Iranian citizenship. Similar thing for Saeed Noori.

[V8Ian]

Seems to be that drugs, alcohol and mental health issues are the ultimate excuse for bad behaviour, as a bonus all are grounds for an invalid pension.
Has this bloke ever contributed to the community he is hellbent on extracting revenge upon?

[Mick_Marsh]

Has this bloke ever contributed to the community he is hellbent on extracting revenge upon?
A few days back he reduced the number of immigrants in Melbourne.

[V8Ian]

A few days back he reduced the number of immigrants in Melbourne.
This country was built by immigrants, many are upstanding members of the community and arrived from all over Europe post WWII.

[Mick_Marsh]

This country was built by immigrants, many are upstanding members of the community and arrived from all over Europe post WWII.
Yes. I'm not anti immigrant. I'm just pointing out a number of the victims of Saeed's abhorrent attack were. He said he was after "Australians" but, in Melbourne in particular, the term "Australians" refers to people from an extremely diverse heritage.
So, in truth, Saeed's actions targeted people who had different beliefs than his. Beliefs that by many accounts are incompatible with Australian society. Beliefs that people similar to Saeed believe, Australians should be forced to adopt or die.

[DiscoMick]

No-one is saying anyone has to adopt any beliefs. His terrible actions were those of a deluded person. His country of origin is irrelevant. Plenty of people born here have deluded beliefs. This is a mental health issue.

[trout1105]

No-one is saying anyone has to adopt any beliefs. His terrible actions were those of a deluded person. His country of origin is irrelevant. Plenty of people born here have deluded beliefs. This is a mental health issue.

This may be watered down as a mental health issue But to put this person back on the streets would be lunacy and it would also send a message that it's OK to kill or maim people if you are a "Nutter".
Regardless of this Blokes mental health he has to be taken out of the general population one way or another [thumbsupbig]

[DiscoMick]

Biggest meth haul in Australian history seized in WA

Biggest meth haul in Australian history seized in WA | Society | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/22/biggest-meth-haul-in-australian-history-seized-in-wa?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard)

[trout1105]

I heard about this yesterday, Geraldton is my home town.
Most of the perpetrators were from the Eastern States though.

[Ausfree]

Despite attempts by certain people in authority to sugar coat it, Saeed Noori is a terrorist, pure and simple. He set out to kill and maim people using a vehicle and also terrorising other people in the vicinity. Australia took him in as a refugee fleeing from Afghanistan and this is how he repays our kindness. Give me a break. Australian diggers are over in Afghanistan fighting ISIS and other groups and doing the job this mongrel should have been doing rather than fleeing to Australia.

Our troops are fighting and dying in Afghanistan and he comes out here and does THIS. I don't care if he is on ice and has mental problems, how DARE he repay our kindness by taking him in and offering him security and a future in this great country by virtually spitting in our face.:soapbox:

[V8Ian]

No-one is saying anyone has to adopt any beliefs. His terrible actions were those of a deluded person. His country of origin is irrelevant. Plenty of people born here have deluded beliefs. This is a mental health issue.
His country of origin IS relevant. He has left his country because he's too scared to stand up and fight for HIS cause. He has been offered safe refuge here whilst our brave Servicemen and women fight on his behalf. We are repayed with a cowardly attack on babes, the very elderly and other soft non-combatants.
If he does hold dual citizenship, strip him of the Australian one and don't waste time with criminal proceedings. Charter a plane to return him to his country of origin. Don't bother with landing permission, don't bother with landing, just kick him out on the way over.

[Eevo]

don't waste time with criminal proceedings.

i'm glad we hold "innocent until proven guilty" in such high regards.

i'm glad this tragedy brings out the worst in us.

do you think your plan of action will stop the next one from doing the same?

[trout1105]

i'm glad we hold "innocent until proven guilty" in such high regards.


This vermin was caught red handed So there is NO doubt about his guilt whatsoever, His "innocent until proven guilty" status is a mere formality.
Maybe its because what he did is considered to be completely reprehensible by the vast majority of people that they want to have him punished severely and rightly so.
Maybe the politically correct and civil libertarians will want to find some way to minimise the punishment handed out But the vast majority want justice served to its full here.
In many parts of the world this bloke would have been torn apart on the spot for this cowardly attack, Including his country of origin [bigwhistle]

[Eevo]

This vermin was caught red handed So there is NO doubt about his guilt whatsoever, His "innocent until proven guilty" status is a mere formality.
Maybe its because what he did is considered to be completely reprehensible by the vast majority of people that they want to have him punished severely and rightly so.
Maybe the politically correct and civil libertarians will want to find some way to minimise the punishment handed out But the vast majority want justice served to its full here.
In many parts of the world this bloke would have been torn apart on the spot for this cowardly attack, Including his country of origin [bigwhistle]


so this about revenge then?

why not draw and quarter him in front of a crowd?
do it at the MCG, sell tickets and give the money to the victims.

[trout1105]

so this about revenge then?

why not draw and quarter him in front of a crowd?
do it at the MCG, sell tickets and give the money to the victims.

NO it's about "Justice" and the rule of law, Nothing more and nothing less.
Punishment for these types of crimes Has to be swift and severe to act as a deterrent to others.

I do like your MCG idea though[bigwhistle]

[Eevo]

NO it's about "Justice" and the rule of law, Nothing more and nothing less.
Punishment for these types of crimes Has to be swift and severe to act as a deterrent to others.

I do like your MCG idea though[bigwhistle]


that's not justice.
and deterrents don't work.


instead of acting barbaric and being short sighted, we should be fixing the system to prevent this from happening again.

who am i kidding, the justice system doesnt work.

[V8Ian]

i'm glad we hold "innocent until proven guilty" in such high regards.

i'm glad this tragedy brings out the worst in us.

do you think your plan of action will stop the next one from doing the same?
Another inane comment from you eevo, it's amazing how your point of view can change to create argument.

[Eevo]

Another inane comment from you eevo, it's amazing how your point of view can change to create argument.


further explanation required.

[rar110]

I’m all for punishment for his conduct, or at least preventative detention to protect the rest of us.

[DiscoMick]

I'm sure his punishment will be severe and well-deserved. Hopefully the judge will ignore those blindly demanding revenge and will sentence him impartially based on the law and justice.
He will no doubt be targeted in prison so he will be in solitary a lot of time, which will worsen his mental condition. Drugs are widely available in prison, so that won't help.
I hope he also gets the treatment he needs to get free of drugs and mentally healthy.
Hopefully one day he will be in a fit state to re-enter society, which is the aim of the prison system.

[Ausfree]

We are a civilised country so he should be given a fair trial and given a long sentence.......................................... .........if found guilty. ( I added that last bit to appease the civil libertarians among us). We should follow the American example and ban immigration from certain countries.........we can't go on like this, previous immigrants came out here, intergrated and help build this great country, not try to tear it apart as this latest lot have successfully done to the countries they have left behind.:bat: The attempts by people who are in authority and who should know better to sugar coat this incident and not call it for what it is (a terrorist attack) doesn't help at all. We have to come down hard and firm and stop this rubbish from occurring again. Immigrants from certain countries should be:nazibanned:

[Strop]

Just a response to a few issues raised.

Terrorism is not restricted to Muslims. Israel used it extensively and their current leader and past ones are named as a terrorists. The French sinking the Rainbow Warrior another example. There are many.

The acts of many nations in bringing their freedoms to middle eastern counties is seen as terrorism by those people. Our own John Howard is also mentioned in circles as a war criminal as a result of this counties actions in an illegal war. Remember our actions in this illegal war resulted in the rise of these terrorist organisations we now talk about.

Our current actions in the Middle East are described as terrorism in those countries. It is all a matter of perspective I would suggest.

Perhaps if we stopped fighting these wars then there would not be as many people fleeing these countries and coming here.

Terrorism or its mention brings funding. I would suggest it is mentioned at any opportunity to get/keep/increase funding. I would suggest the acting Vic Police Commissioner is aware of this and phrased his media response accordingly. The politics of today. It is it’s own industry now. Where money is available business follows and that includes its reporting as well - unfortunately. Fear is a great persuading factor in this.

The increase in mental health related crime is not generally reported though it is far greater than it has been in the past. Mental Health & drugs are HUGE causative factors in crime and have a huge cost to society. We spend massive $ on terrorism and talk about it but spend no time having discussions on how legalising drugs is shown to reduce crime, violence etc, or on how we have cut the guts out of mental health support. Domestic Violence deaths are massive but little real focus or $$.

We rely very much on ethnicity rather than nationality in judging people. There are many Australians, multi-generational who are not white Anglo saxons. It seems that we use ethnicity to reduce the value of people - offensive really. I am never referred to as Welsh-Australian. A new white English or South African immigrant appears to have greater merit in some circles than a multi-generational Chinese-Australian simply because of how they look.

There are many white people who commit horrific crimes yet we rarely hear of calls to shoot them etc. Our emotive responses are out of balance. Yes punishment will occur but the rule of law is for all not just some.

Whilst I in no way condone these crimes I do stress that people make many incorrect judgements on incidents - fed on limited & incorrect information that they accept and reject based on their biases. In 30 years of policing I was continually amazed at being told by people what had happened at incidents that I had attended/investigated yet they were so so so wrong.

All the best and a Merry Christmas to all.

[DiscoMick]

Just a response to a few issues raised.

Terrorism is not restricted to Muslims. Israel used it extensively and their current leader and past ones are named as a terrorists. The French sinking the Rainbow Warrior another example. There are many.

The acts of many nations in bringing their freedoms to middle eastern counties is seen as terrorism by those people. Our own John Howard is also mentioned in circles as a war criminal as a result of this counties actions in an illegal war. Remember our actions in this illegal war resulted in the rise of these terrorist organisations we now talk about.

Our current actions in the Middle East are described as terrorism in those countries. It is all a matter of perspective I would suggest.

Perhaps if we stopped fighting these wars then there would not be as many people fleeing these countries and coming here.

Terrorism or its mention brings funding. I would suggest it is mentioned at any opportunity to get/keep/increase funding. I would suggest the acting Vic Police Commissioner is aware of this and phrased his media response accordingly. The politics of today. It is it’s own industry now. Where money is available business follows and that includes its reporting as well - unfortunately. Fear is a great persuading factor in this.

The increase in mental health related crime is not generally reported though it is far greater than it has been in the past. Mental Health & drugs are HUGE causative factors in crime and have a huge cost to society. We spend massive $ on terrorism and talk about it but spend no time having discussions on how legalising drugs is shown to reduce crime, violence etc, or on how we have cut the guts out of mental health support. Domestic Violence deaths are massive but little real focus or $$.

We rely very much on ethnicity rather than nationality in judging people. There are many Australians, multi-generational who are not white Anglo saxons. It seems that we use ethnicity to reduce the value of people - offensive really. I am never referred to as Welsh-Australian. A new white English or South African immigrant appears to have greater merit in some circles than a multi-generational Chinese-Australian simply because of how they look.

There are many white people who commit horrific crimes yet we rarely hear of calls to shoot them etc. Our emotive responses are out of balance. Yes punishment will occur but the rule of law is for all not just some.

Whilst I in no way condone these crimes I do stress that people make many incorrect judgements on incidents - fed on limited & incorrect information that they accept and reject based on their biases. In 30 years of policing I was continually amazed at being told by people what had happened at incidents that I had attended/investigated yet they were so so so wrong.

All the best and a Merry Christmas to all.
I strongly agree with your post.
Drug abuse, mental illnesses and domestic violence are huge problems and many times more serious than terrorism. Immigration is irrelevant. It makes no difference if a person comes from England, the USA, Spain, Afghanistan, Chile, Nigeria or Melbourne - what counts is how they think and act, not where they originated. Beating them up might make us feel tough, but it does nothing to solve the real problems. Our focus is all wrong, I think.

[Ausfree]

Yep, Adolph Hitler, Pol Pot and Stalin, just to name a few could be named as terrorists because of the death and destruction that occurred in their regimes, so I agree we should not judge terrorism on a persons race, religion or ethnics. I also agree that we should not just follow the "worlds policemen" who have been involved in more wars than any other country into conflicts. We have a sad history of going all the way with Uncle Sam instead of looking at our own interests first. We have no business in the Middle East at all, but I stand by with what I have said in previous posts. Let it be said that the Middle East has been involved in conflict going back to the Crusades and it is a sad fact, that is the only life they know.

Our country is a long way from the worlds trouble spots and that is the way I want to keep it. America does not set a good example at all, look at the deaths there caused by firearms in the hands of nutters and by definition the person causing multiple deaths using a firearm could also be called a terrorist.

So in conclusion I am all for tightening immigration laws on ALL nationalities with particular focus on known trouble spots.

[Eevo]

Yep, Adolph Hitler, Pol Pot and Stalin, just to name a few could be named as terrorists because of the death and destruction that occurred in their regimes, so I agree we should not judge terrorism on a persons race, religion or ethnics. I also agree that we should not just follow the "worlds policemen" who have been involved in more wars than any other country into conflicts. We have a sad history of going all the way with Uncle Sam instead of looking at our own interests first. We have no business in the Middle East at all, but I stand by with what I have said in previous posts. Let it be said that the Middle East has been involved in conflict going back to the Crusades and it is a sad fact, that is the only life they know.

Our country is a long way from the worlds trouble spots and that is the way I want to keep it. America does not set a good example at all, look at the deaths there caused by firearms in the hands of nutters and by definition the person causing multiple deaths using a firearm could also be called a terrorist.

So in conclusion I am all for tightening immigration laws on ALL nationalities with particular focus on known trouble spots.


luke skywalker could be labeled a terrorist too.

[gordo 350]

In case you missed it Luke skywalker is a fictional character. So what is your point

[Eevo]

In case you missed it Luke skywalker is a fictional character. So what is your point
one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/661.jpg

[gordo 350]

Again. What is your point. Luke skywalker is a fictional character

[Eevo]

Again. What is your point. Luke skywalker is a fictional character

fictional doesnt invalidate the idea.

Osama bin Laden could be fictional for all we know.

[gordo 350]

Lets deal with facts rather than copy and paste Hollywood memes

[Eevo]

Lets deal with facts rather than copy and paste Hollywood memes

lay out the facts then.

[DiscoMick]

Muslim man punched in face for 'not having an opinion'
Muslim man punched in face for 'not having an opinion', SA Police investigate - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-23/worshipping-muslim-punched-in-the-face-for-not-having-an-opinion/9283828)

[Ausfree]

Muslim man punched in face for 'not having an opinion'
Muslim man punched in face for 'not having an opinion', SA Police investigate - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-23/worshipping-muslim-punched-in-the-face-for-not-having-an-opinion/9283828)
There you go, with certain religions, you have to agree with their way or they will attack you and perhaps kill you. Freedom of religion???? there is none where a certain religion is concerned.

ps. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL and thank your lucky stars you live in this wonderful country...........lets keep it that way.:BigThumb:

[Chops]

This vermin was caught red handed So there is NO doubt about his guilt whatsoever, His "innocent until proven guilty" status is a mere formality.
Maybe its because what he did is considered to be completely reprehensible by the vast majority of people that they want to have him punished severely and rightly so.
Maybe the politically correct and civil libertarians will want to find some way to minimise the punishment handed out But the vast majority want justice served to its full here.
In many parts of the world this bloke would have been torn apart on the spot for this cowardly attack, Including his country of origin [bigwhistle]

They already have by saying he’s mentally ill.
It could be construed that every person who commits some form of crime against anyone, be it a single person or against a community has some sort of mental illness, purely because they haven’t “followed the path of right”.
The fact is, these types of crimes are not acceptable in a modern society and should be dealt with accordingly.
Prison where they get treated like kings is certainly not the answer. These mongrels lost “their rights” when they committed crimes against someone else. If putting them in a 12x12 box with just 3 square feeds a day ONLY, supposedly sends them into a bottomless pit in their minds,, then let it happen.
Ultimately, THEY CHOSE to go down a bad path,, then they need to wear the consequences of they’re actions.


Merry Xmas all, now the kids are up, we’re off to see what Santa’s 🎅 brought in on his sleigh 🛷 😁

[rick130]

There you go, with certain religions, you have to agree with their way or they will attack you and perhaps kill you. Freedom of religion???? there is none where a certain religion is concerned.



Umm, some random Anglo bloke off the street walked into a Mosque, started debating a worshipper there and then punched him in the face "because he didn't have an opinion"

I wonder what religion the assailant was or identified with?
He sure as hell wasn't Muslim.

[Ausfree]

Umm, some random Anglo bloke off the street walked into a Mosque, started debating a worshipper there and then punched him in the face "because he didn't have an opinion"

I wonder what religion the assailant was or identified with?
He sure as hell wasn't Muslim.

! No excuse for assault!!! I don't care who it is!!!

[trout1105]

Umm, some random Anglo bloke off the street walked into a Mosque, started debating a worshipper there and then punched him in the face "because he didn't have an opinion"

I wonder what religion the assailant was or identified with?
He sure as hell wasn't Muslim.

Maybe Old Mate my have"mental" issues like that poor little misunderstood bugger that deliberately drove over those pedestrians [bigwhistle]

[tuesdayfox]

the idea of exporting criminals to other countries,,,sounds familiar....

[DiscoMick]

Yeah, the Brit's tried that - transporting people for stealing food to eat or a handkerchief - and Australia was born!

This bloke will go away for a long time I predict, because he will not be fit to stand trial. He will be like Martin Bryant - never fit for parole. That is, unless he gets off the drugs and his brain is not too fried to return to reality. If he does rediscover reality, he may become suicidal. Either way, it's a wasted life, which is sad, I think.

[Mick_Marsh]

Flinders St: Murder charge expected after Antonios Crocaris, 83, dies in hospital - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-30/flinders-street-attack-victim-dies-in-melbourne/9293858)