Will Australians please take a deep breath, and stop being so up themselves?

[bob10]

Or is it Australia is just a drug addled country?

Road-ragers punch truckie (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/road-ragers-punch-truckie/ar-BBH8JLY?li=AAavLaF&ocid=spartandhp)

[bob10]

NSW is not far behind, but we all knew they are full of it.

Golden-toothed enforcer arrested during Raptor blitz (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/golden-toothed-enforcer-arrested-during-raptor-blitz/ar-BBH8mOX?ocid=spartandhp)

[Eevo]

why have no arrests been made?

[bob10]

why have no arrests been made?

I have the greatest respect for the Police force. I'm sure persons of interest will be spoken to , in due course. The Police are probably busy with the ICE addled Victorian who tried to run over innocent citizens . Most liveable city? Obviously a result of bribes in brown paper bags paid by shady characters from the murky depths of Victorian society. We've been thru that, and have it sorted. I guess our war against bikie gangs has forced the grubs south. To NSW, mostly.

[trog]

It is Almost perfect her in Queensland?
.
Not too many days where I haven't felt like doing something completely stupid and malicious

[Eevo]

The Police are probably busy with the ICE addled Victorian who tried to run over innocent citizens .

god, i hope the state never has 2 murders on the same day.

[Tins]

I am Victorian. I reckon I am as reasonable and decent a human being as any other person on this forum ( on a good day ). To call this a State based thing is, quite frankly, insulting to about 25% of the population of this country. It is unfortunate that certain policies seem to attract certain individuals to the Vic Capital, but you just wait. What happened here is coming to a city street near you. When it does, I won't be sitting here having a go at Queenslanders. I will be trying to find some way to help.

I thought that we were all Aussies first.

[trout1105]

I am Victorian. I reckon I am as reasonable and decent a human being as any other person on this forum ( on a good day ). To call this a State based thing is, quite frankly, insulting to about 25% of the population of this country. It is unfortunate that certain policies seem to attract certain individuals to the Vic Capital, but you just wait. What happened here is coming to a city street near you. When it does, I won't be sitting here having a go at Queenslanders. I will be trying to find some way to help.

I thought that we were all Aussies first.

I agree, These sort of vermin can be found in Any state.

[SBD4]

Latest road rage articles | Topics | Queensland Times (https://www.qt.com.au/topic/road-rage/)
qld ice epidemic - Google Search (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=qld+ice+epidemic)

[DiscoMick]

Ice is a national scourge.

[Eevo]

i dont understand the difference between ice and meth.
someone able to clear things up for me?

[Gordie]

i dont understand the difference between ice and meth.
someone able to clear things up for me?I am no expert, but I believe they are the same thing, ice is just a crystallised form of methamphetamine. Either way, bad ****.

[bob10]

I agree. ICE is a National disgrace. No, I don't think Qld. is any different. At least now we are discussing the problem, not pretending it doesn't exist.

[bob10]

Reading this article makes my blood run cold. Why aren't we marching in the streets , demanding governments focus on this problem, allocating more resources to it. No more Mr nice guy, the death penalty for major drug dealers, build centres where addicts can detox safely, and plenty of them. Why are we just sitting on our hands ? Yes, this article was printed in 2014. As a warning. . Did the Nation take heed?

Category: | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/australia-warned-its-ice-problem-is-reaching-pandemic-proportions/news-story/5bc75d2b1222188dca1ebf6ba537aa5b)

[bob10]

What is ice?

What happens to your body when you use ice? - Health - ABC News (http://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2017-02-20/ice-what-happens-to-your-body-when-you-use-the-drug/8275654)

[bob10]

Some victims stories.<br>
<br>
Ice: Recovering Indigenous addicts share their stories (7:30) - YouTube (https://youtu.be/v4jeWq5uLAI)

[bob10]

How to recognise an ice user.

Methamphetamine Addiction - signs & symptoms - YouTube (https://youtu.be/WBMmzfQByeY)

[rangieman]

Reading this article makes my blood run cold. Why aren't we marching in the streets , demanding governments focus on this problem, allocating more resources to it. No more Mr nice guy, the death penalty for major drug dealers, build centres where addicts can detox safely, and plenty of them. Why are we just sitting on our hands ? Yes, this article was printed in 2014. As a warning. . Did the Nation take heed?

Category: | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/australia-warned-its-ice-problem-is-reaching-pandemic-proportions/news-story/5bc75d2b1222188dca1ebf6ba537aa5b)
Um self inflicted :bat:

I have no sympathy these scum of the Earth that use drugs as a excuse or all the bellowing of the doo gooder`s bleeding there case .

There are more important needy people that deserve way more help thankyou.

Now the Majority of Disabled people had no say in the cause of their condition so not self inflicted,

But

Why are we not pounding the streets for people with disability`s that need so much help,
Why don`t we have a proper public transport system that is geared for the disabled ,
Why are all buildings not Disable friendly ,
Why are the disabled still fighting for rights and services ,
We in Australia are so far behind the rest of the world when it comes to the Disabled :soapbox:
Now i am not Disabled but am very close to few that are and all i can say is live a day in their life and you will understand !

[bob10]

More on ice.

Methamphetamine Withdrawal and Methamphetamine Detox - YouTube (https://youtu.be/LqYh2XOEFSM)

[Pickles2]

Very difficult situation.
Towards the end of service last Sunday at our local Anglican Church where my wife & I both worship, we had an incident.
A very rough looking woman entered the Church, making a noise, & demanding attention. We normally have a coffee, a few nibblies etc after the service. This person just started getting stuck into them, we tried to be friendly, this woman then started demanding other stuff, money, taxi etc etc, and when we couldn't assist, she attacked one of our ladies. Consequently, & with some difficulty, she was restrained, and eventually left.
So yes, it's a difficult situation, one tries to help, and then stuff/aggro happens,.....it was nasty enough, but it could've been a lot worse.
Can't definitely say it was ice of course, we're no experts, but this woman had a "wild look" in her eye, very drawn features, and was definitely not "listening" to any of us. She was most definitely "on" something.
Pickles.

[bob10]

This problem is real, it is out there, take the time to educate your selves so you can talk to your children/grand children . Don't think it can't happen to your family, ice addiction has no social boundaries. Don't wait for governments to solve the problem, be alert, be aware. Already some Qld. country towns have mobilised their community to fight the scourge. The zombie apocalypse is a fantasy. The drug apocalypse is not. Get involved, start the conversation.

IceFight - Home (http://www.icefight.com.au/)

[Ean Austral]

Um self inflicted :bat:

I have no sympathy these scum of the Earth that use drugs as a excuse or all the bellowing of the doo gooder`s bleeding there case .

There are more important needy people that deserve way more help thankyou.

Now the Majority of Disabled people had no say in the cause of their condition so not self inflicted,

But

Why are we not pounding the streets for people with disability`s that need so much help,
Why don`t we have a proper public transport system that is geared for the disabled ,
Why are all buildings not Disable friendly ,
Why are the disabled still fighting for rights and services ,
We in Australia are so far behind the rest of the world when it comes to the Disabled :soapbox:
Now i am not Disabled but am very close to few some that are and all i can say is live a day in their life and you will understand !

Eldest Daughter runs a Kidney Dialysis clinic here in Darwin , few weeks ago 1 of her patients turns up 5 hours late and high on a concoction of alcohol and Ice , they refuse to dialyse him so he goes crazy , staff end up locking themselves in 1 section whilst waiting for the cops to arrive. This guy in his rage has taken out 1 dialysis machine and caused several others to have to stop treatment.


Im told the tax payer pays about $90k per year per kidney dialysis patient , next day the cops bring this guy back for his treatment.. So 4 cops have to be present whilst this looser gets treated, another waste of resource's and we are supposed to fell sorry for this type of person because they have a self inflicted addiction.

Time for the do gooders to be pushed aside and some true justice dished out = you want to abuse the system and the people in it trying to help , then go without and see how much fun it is. Far to many need the help and will welcome it with open arms not abuse it.

Cheers Ean

[DiscoMick]

The addiction takes over and the person loses control and can't discern reality and loses inhibitions. Last year a bloke was filmed repeatedly punching a post near my work. Just kept punching away ignoring pain. Off the planet. Eventually taken into custody for detoxing. They can't behave rationally because of the drug, so it is pointless to demand rational behaviour from them.
Punishment achieves nothing so calls for tougher treatment and 'lock them up'are meaningless. They have to be isolated until the drugs wash through the system. It takes a long time too. A friend who is a former addict but drug free now says in his mind he will always think like an addict - he will never be free of the addiction. That is a very hard lesson for anyone to accept.

[bob10]

Every one is a critic until a close family member is caught up in addiction. Then watch how fast they change their mind.

IceFight - Videos (http://www.icefight.com.au/latest-news/videos)

[Eevo]

Why are we not pounding the streets for people with disability`s that need so much help,
Why don`t we have a proper public transport system that is geared for the disabled ,
Why are all buildings not Disable friendly ,
Why are the disabled still fighting for rights and services ,


cause if you make being disabled too attractive, less people will work, less people will pay tax, and the govt will have less money. and the govt cant allow that to happen

[rick130]

I thought that we were all Aussies first.

Nope, just watch Queensland commercial TV news. ;)

[Ean Austral]

The addiction takes over and the person loses control and can't discern reality and loses inhibitions. Last year a bloke was filmed repeatedly punching a post near my work. Just kept punching away ignoring pain. Off the planet. Eventually taken into custody for detoxing. They can't behave rationally because of the drug, so it is pointless to demand rational behaviour from them. Punishment achieves nothing. They have to be isolated until the drugs wash through the system.

You are of course assuming they want to get off the stuff , takes a long time to wash thru when all they do is top it up. In the mean time we have to watch our ambo's and others who provide the community with a valuable service get assaulted or worse.

Cant help those who don't want it no matter what systems are in place. Seems the Lawyer handbook first line on the page says " My client wants to seek help " just to appease the judge.

Cheers Ean

[Roverlord off road spares]

Um self inflicted :bat:

I have no sympathy these scum of the Earth that use drugs as a excuse or all the bellowing of the doo gooder`s bleeding there case .

There are more important needy people that deserve way more help thankyou.

Now the Majority of Disabled people had no say in the cause of their condition so not self inflicted,

But

Why are we not pounding the streets for people with disability`s that need so much help,
Why don`t we have a proper public transport system that is geared for the disabled ,
Why are all buildings not Disable friendly ,
Why are the disabled still fighting for rights and services ,
We in Australia are so far behind the rest of the world when it comes to the Disabled :soapbox:
Now i am not Disabled but am very close to few some that are and all i can say is live a day in their life and you will understand !
Not as bad as Japan Chris, th disabled and elderly there are a nuisance to others it seems , with millions of people commuting I was quite gob smacked how they disabled and elderly are bowled over in the rush.

[Ean Austral]

Thru work I know quite a few NT cops , and the force up here is loosing more cops than they can recruit, most of the one's leaving are seasoned veteran's and that experience cant be replaced overnight. 1 of the main reasons is they turn up to people off their heads and aggressive, when they either defend themselves or use force the phone camera's just happen to start rolling and the cops look like the bad guys and get trashed by the media and public alike.

Then you see the publics cry's of why aren't the cops turning up or taking so long to turn up when they call the cops for help. Unless we start to get tougher we will get what we deserve, and it aint far away.

Lets see what happens to the 6 in WA who just got done for 1.2ton of methamphetamine. In most countries the chair would be getting warmed up or old mate would be practicing his noose tying skills, lets see how it gets dealt with here. - Be something pathetic like usual.

Cheers Ean

[Mick_Marsh]

TLets see what happens to the 6 in WA who just got done for 1.2ton of methamphetamine. In most countries the chair would be getting warmed up or old mate would be practicing his noose tying skills, lets see how it gets dealt with here. - Be something pathetic like usual.
I suspect the feather duster will be getting prepped for a severe wrist slapping.

[rangieman]

cause if you make being disabled too attractive, less people will work, less people will pay tax, and the govt will have less money. and the govt cant allow that to happen

What a immature statement :soapbox:.
You obviously have no idea[bighmmm]

[V8Ian]

I suspect the feather duster will be getting prepped for a severe wrist slapping.
Severe? You think they'll be dealt with harshly?

[trout1105]

cause if you make being disabled too attractive, less people will work, less people will pay tax, and the govt will have less money. and the govt cant allow that to happen

Next time try and engage your brain before typing Mate, A great many of disabled people are Elderly, have been injured at work and have been injured serving their country.
All of these people are responsible for helping build the country that you are living in and enjoy now and what is so "Attractive" about being disabled even if there are more parking spots or entry ramps put in place it won't make their life "Attractive".

[Mick_Marsh]

Severe? You think they'll be dealt with harshly?

We need to send them a clear message.

[V8Ian]

We need to send them a clear message.
I think a stern talking to should do the trick.

[Ean Austral]

We need to send them a clear message.

Sadly the laws in this country don't allow the message to be CRYSTAL CLEAR.

Lawyers will argue they were just drug mules and are good members of society , are remorseful and made a silly mistake. A not so comfy bed might be about all they will get.

Cheers Ean

[trout1105]

We need to send them a clear message.

1.2 tone of this garbage had the potential to destroy a great many Australians lives and I am certain that the people involved were completely aware of this So YES they need to be locked away for a Very long time.
We could always ask the Balinese to sort this out for us [bigwhistle]

[Ean Austral]

1.2 tone of this garbage had the potential to destroy a great many Australians lives and I am certain that the people involved were completely aware of this So YES they need to be locked away for a Very long time.
We could always ask the Balinese to sort this out for us [bigwhistle]

Time we had the same approach to drug trafficers , why pay to keep them locked up , they had no concern for the endless pain and suffering their actions would cause. Save us having to build new jails.

Cheers Ean

[rangieman]

1.2 tone of this garbage had the potential to destroy a great many Australians lives and I am certain that the people involved were completely aware of this So YES they need to be locked away for a Very long time.
We could always ask the Balinese to sort this out for us [bigwhistle]
Malaysia seems to do the better job on this front even Singapore has zero Tolerance :rocket:

[trout1105]

[/B]
Time we had the same approach to drug trafficers , why pay to keep them locked up , they had no concern for the endless pain and suffering their actions would cause. Save us having to build new jails.

Cheers Ean

You won't get any arguments from me on that score Mate [thumbsupbig]

[trog]

And the coke users in the eastern suburbs will keep on sniffing, cause they have the money. I read somewhere that the drug testing of waste water showed coke use to be higher in affluent areas while the synthetics such as meth are often in the less salubrious areas.

[Eevo]

What a immature statement :soapbox:.
You obviously have no idea[bighmmm]


dont blame me i'm just the messenger.
blame the politicians .

[Eevo]

Next time try and engage your brain before typing Mate, A great many of disabled people are Elderly, have been injured at work and have been injured serving their country.
All of these people are responsible for helping build the country that you are living in and enjoy now and what is so "Attractive" about being disabled even if there are more parking spots or entry ramps put in place it won't make their life "Attractive".

it's not hard to get on disability and i've met several people who milk it and then work cash jobs.
open your eyes.

[trog]

it's not hard to get on disability and i've met several people who milk it and then work cash jobs.
open your eyes.

Were they ever reported ?

[Eevo]

Were they ever reported ?
no idea. i tend not to associate with them
i reported a former friend to centrelink once. he turned into a drug addict, went on disability. was forging doctors letters, etc.

[trout1105]

it's not hard to get on disability and i've met several people who milk it and then work cash jobs.
open your eyes.

I agree that there are some that "Rort" the system But "Big Brother" is slowly catching up with these thieves which is fanbloodytastic as far as I am concerned But the majority of people on a disability pension are genuinely in need and to say that things need to be made harder/more uncomfortable for ALL of our disabled people is hogwash and a truly cruel and thoughtless thing to say.

[Eevo]

I agree that there are some that "Rort" the system But "Big Brother" is slowly catching up with these thieves which is fanbloodytastic as far as I am concerned But the majority of people on a disability pension are genuinely in need and to say that things need to be made harder/more uncomfortable for ALL of our disabled people is hogwash and a truly cruel and thoughtless thing to say.


i didnt say things need to be made harder. i said thats what our govt is doing.

[trout1105]

i didnt say things need to be made harder. i said thats what our govt is doing.

I don't believe that the government wants to make it harder for "Genuine" cases of disability, I am under the impression that they are making a concerted effort to rid the system of the rorting mongrels that are abusing the system.
I have absolutely NO issues with supporting and helping people that are genuinely in need But those Scum that are rorting the system need to be addressed and dealt with ASAP.

[DiscoMick]

[/B]

You are of course assuming they want to get off the stuff , takes a long time to wash thru when all they do is top it up. In the mean time we have to watch our ambo's and others who provide the community with a valuable service get assaulted or worse.

Cant help those who don't want it no matter what systems are in place. Seems the Lawyer handbook first line on the page says " My client wants to seek help " just to appease the judge.

Cheers Ean
Yes, you're spot on about having to want to change, but that isn't possible until they're clean. Until then, they're addicted and can't choose.

[V8Ian]

Next time try and engage your brain before typing
Lack of CDL might be the issue here, IIRC eevo has a D2. [wink11]

[DiscoMick]

And the coke users in the eastern suburbs will keep on sniffing, cause they have the money. I read somewhere that the drug testing of waste water showed coke use to be higher in affluent areas while the synthetics such as meth are often in the less salubrious areas.
Yes, I have also heard that is correct. Drug use is higher in affluent areas.

Drug kings are not silly enough to get caught themselves, they use addicts as couriers. That's why the couriers get lesser sentences than the kings behind them.

[Eevo]

Yes, I have also heard that is correct. Drug use is higher in affluent areas.

Drug kings are not silly enough to get caught themselves, they use addicts as couriers. That's why the couriers get lesser sentences than the kings behind them.

different drugs are in use in affluent areas. coke over meth for example.

[Eevo]

I don't believe that the government wants to make it harder for "Genuine" cases of disability, I am under the impression that they are making a concerted effort to rid the system of the rorting mongrels that are abusing the system.
i dont agree. i think their making it harder for anyone on centrelink. legit or not.




I have absolutely NO issues with supporting and helping people that are genuinely in need But those Scum that are rorting the system need to be addressed and dealt with ASAP.
i agree. or a universal income to all citizens as its cheaper and less bureaucracy. but thats a debate for another time.

[Eevo]

Lack of CDL might be the issue here, IIRC eevo has a D2. [wink11]

i thought i retrofitted that...

[Mick_Marsh]

i agree. or a universal income to all citizens as its cheaper and less bureaucracy. but thats a debate for another time.
And another place.

UBI - Universal Basic Income (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/current-affairs/245207-ubi-universal-basic-income.html)

[trog]

I recall reading about the drug of choice by those with differing personalities. Seems those that wish to escape the nastiness of life prefer alcohol and soporifics , while those who wish to dominate prefer those that heighten the senses. So if there is an epidemic of ice use , why are so many wanting to dominate those around them ?

[rar110]

True meth addiction is often resolved in one of two ways, intensive rehab (frequently more than once) or death. Not much of a choice for a parent.

[V8Ian]

Back on topic, the title of the thread is rather misleading, Bob, almost prejudiced. Nobody is more parochial than me but let's stick to the facts. We have our fair share of low lives too. Queenslander, copper, postman, truck driver, categorize people as you like, they all fit into the same bell-curve; 90% decent folk, 5% grubs and 5% exceptionally great community members.
Road rage and other bad behaviours can come from anywhere, even the least expected quarter.
Outback cop fined $1500 for pulling gun on unarmed couple | Sunshine Coast Daily (https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/outback-cop-who-pulled-gun-unarmed-couple-fined-15/3141986/)

On the original clip; that was a ballsy move by the assailants. If I'd been driving the truck, I'm sure my foot would have slipped off the clutch, causing minor damage to the bullbar.
Mr Tins, please enlighten me, I thought the steps on those Fruitliners retracted when the door was shut.

[Chops]

Yep, whilst they were standing on the step, I’d have opened the door,, if they didn’t fall off at that point, I’d have swung around and booted them off with both feet. I’m sure the fall at the end would have slowed them down somewhat.

[V8Ian]

Back on topic, the title of the thread is rather misleading, Bob, almost prejudiced. Nobody is more parochial than me but let's stick to the facts. We have our fair share of low lives too. Queenslander, copper, postman, truck driver, categorize people as you like, they all fit into the same bell-curve; 90% decent folk, 5% grubs and 5% exceptionally great community members.
Road rage and other bad behaviours can come from anywhere, even the least expected quarter.
Outback cop fined $1500 for pulling gun on unarmed couple | Sunshine Coast Daily (https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/outback-cop-who-pulled-gun-unarmed-couple-fined-15/3141986/)

On the original clip; that was a ballsy move by the assailants. If I'd been driving the truck, I'm sure my foot would have slipped off the clutch, causing minor damage to the bullbar.
Mr Tins, please enlighten me, I thought the steps on those Fruitliners retracted when the door was shut.
Title now edited.

[Bearman]

Eldest Daughter runs a Kidney Dialysis clinic here in Darwin , few weeks ago 1 of her patients turns up 5 hours late and high on a concoction of alcohol and Ice , they refuse to dialyse him so he goes crazy , staff end up locking themselves in 1 section whilst waiting for the cops to arrive. This guy in his rage has taken out 1 dialysis machine and caused several others to have to stop treatment.


Im told the tax payer pays about $90k per year per kidney dialysis patient , next day the cops bring this guy back for his treatment.. So 4 cops have to be present whilst this looser gets treated, another waste of resource's and we are supposed to fell sorry for this type of person because they have a self inflicted addiction.

Time for the do gooders to be pushed aside and some true justice dished out = you want to abuse the system and the people in it trying to help , then go without and see how much fun it is. Far to many need the help and will welcome it with open arms not abuse it.

Cheers Ean
h
Yep, totally wrong. No treatment until he is just about on his last breath and then have his Centrelink payments garnished until he has paid for the damage he caused. And finally a written letter of apology to all the staff he terrorised. Also I believe all suppliers and pushers should face a bullet if convicted.

[Zeros]

Borders are like padlocks, they only keep honest people out. ...When it's the honest people we want to share our lives with, the people in need we wish to assist, borders are invisible.

[DiscoMick]

Sorry, but if he's in custody then the cops are under a legal duty of care to make reasonable efforts to ensure his well-being, which would certainly include access to dialysis if he needs it. That's the law. Revenge is illegal in this country. He should get the treatment he needs to be in a fit state to face a court for an impartial examination of his behaviour.

[Gordie]

"Duty of Care", my most 3 hated words in a sequence. Alas that is the world we live in.

[BMKal]

"Duty of Care", my most 3 hated words in a sequence. Alas that is the world we live in.

Yep - it's one of the favourite quotes of the do-gooder brigade, who are largely responsible for today's society progressing further into the gutter. Some people are simply too bloody stupid to see what is going on around them.

As far as I'm concerned, if you want to act / behave like an arsehole, be prepared to be treated like an arsehole.

[Pickles2]

Yep - it's one of the favourite quotes of the do-gooder brigade, who are largely responsible for today's society progressing further into the gutter. Some people are simply too bloody stupid to see what is going on around them.

As far as I'm concerned, if you want to act / behave like an arsehole, be prepared to be treated like an arsehole.
Agree, with one proviso,..the majority of people called arseholes by the do-gooders, are not imho arseholes,...they are simply Aussies, sticking up for Aussie,....only IMHO of course.
Pickles.

[ramblingboy42]

I like your HO's most of the time Pickles...Merry Xmas to you and yours.

[V8Ian]

Ho, ho, ho. [bigwhistle]

[Pickles2]

I like your HO's most of the time Pickles...Merry Xmas to you and yours.
And to you Dennis.
Pickles.

[bob10]

Back on topic, the title of the thread is rather misleading, Bob, almost prejudiced. Nobody is more parochial than me but let's stick to the facts. We have our fair share of low lives too. Queenslander, copper, postman, truck driver, categorize people as you like, they all fit into the same bell-curve; 90% decent folk, 5% grubs and 5% exceptionally great community members.
Road rage and other bad behaviours can come from anywhere, even the least expected quarter.
Outback cop fined $1500 for pulling gun on unarmed couple | Sunshine Coast Daily (https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/outback-cop-who-pulled-gun-unarmed-couple-fined-15/3141986/)

On the original clip; that was a ballsy move by the assailants. If I'd been driving the truck, I'm sure my foot would have slipped off the clutch, causing minor damage to the bullbar.
Mr Tins, please enlighten me, I thought the steps on those Fruitliners retracted when the door was shut.

You are correct Ian. I was hoping to create discussion on a subject where some members are convinced the victims should be what ? treated like scum of the Earth? That attitude permeates thru this thread. This obviously from people who have never made a mistake in their life. Why aren't members up in arms about the scum who supply these drugs. Admittedly, I chose the cohort whom react most vehemently to criticism, hoping to drag into the conversation those whom I had hoped would take hold of the subject and shake it by the throat. Unfortunately, it seems this is just too much of a negative subject for rational discussion. Or perhaps it's just another case of who cares, I'm ok jack. No offence meant to Victorians BTW.

[Ralph1Malph]

On the topic of road rage, I certainly don't condone it, but as a country we have been continually conditioned to believe that pretty much all things connected with vehicles and driving is bad and we should be ashamed that we don't walk.
This predisposes people to be less tolerant and understanding on one hand, but also to double down on indecision, caution, inconsideration and worse, vacillation. We all view acts daily on our roads that are not in themselves dangerous or wrong, just frustrating acts of lazy inconsiderate driving. I admit, I've wanted to beat down on nobbers that are just plain inconsiderate or lazy drivers because their lazy driving impacts so many other road users. Of course I don't, nor do 99% of the population actual beat down!
As our roads become more congested many folk still drive like it was, not like it is.
For example, the right turn arrow near me is green for 19 seconds in peak down to 10 off peak. It gets so frustrating when the first car in line consumes 8 of those seconds to move forward and then ambles around the corner! So where 8-10 cars 'should' be traversing the intersection, only 3 do plus one on amber/red. This of course happens every rotation thus delaying and clogging the peak even more. Yes, sometimes I want to beat down the perp! But I'm cultured.
Similarly, we all whinge about the right lane hog doing 3-10 below the limit. Again, not wrong or bad, just inconsiderate and lazy.

So, to end my rant, often I think that instead of pandering to the slower is better crowd, perhaps the answer is teaching drivers to be smart and not lazy!

Ralph

[DiscoMick]

Very true.
I was amused to discover less road rage and more patient driving in genuinely congested Bangkok when I lived there than in relatively sleepy Brisbane, where impatient nobs rant about the slightest inconvenience.
Maybe it's social. We are a highly individualistic society, whereas Thais have the typical Asian group mentality. We should be less like Americans and more like Asians, I think.

[V8Ian]

Very true.
I was amused to discover less road rage and more patient driving in genuinely congested Bangkok when I lived there than in relatively sleepy Brisbane, where impatient nobs rant about the slightest inconvenience.
Maybe it's social. We are a highly individualistic society, whereas Thais have the typical Asian group mentality. We should be less like Americans and more like Asians, I think.
When in Rome.....
We're not in America or Asia, thank goodness.

[Chops]

In regards to some of the comments in this thread. I myself have a nephew who is an active ice addict. When he is a clean addict( he will always be an addict wether active or not) he is one of the most caring loving man you could ever want to meet, but unfortunately for all and especially his wife and kids he has spent more time being an active addict then not. Every time he gets locked up or goes off to rehab we pray that he will be able to stay clean. Unfortunately not. I'm very much you do the crime you the time but jails these days are full of drugs and he came out this time worse then ever. So this drug destroys all that are touched by it. So no excuse from me, whatever his actions under the influence of ice he deserves to be punished and yes the laws need to be harsher. I also know we will get a call one day that this terrible addiction has taken his life.
MRS CHOPS

[Pickles2]

Thank you Chops for your realistic approach.
My motto is, "Do the crime, do the time",.....NO exceptions,.....the do-gooders will not agree.
Pickles.

[bob10]

[QUOTE=Chops;2756416]In regards to some of the comments in this thread. I myself have a nephew who is an active ice addict. When he is a clean addict( he will always be an addict wether active or not) he is one of the most caring loving man you could ever want to meet, but unfortunately for all and especially his wife and kids he has spent more time being an active addict then not. Every time he gets locked up or goes off to rehab we pray that he will be able to stay clean. Unfortunately not. I'm very much you do the crime you the time but jails these days are full of drugs and he came out this time worse then ever. So this drug destroys all that are touched by it. So no excuse from me, whatever his actions under the influence of ice he deserves to be punished and yes the laws need to be harsher. I also know we will get a call one day that this terrible addiction has taken his life.
MRS CHOPS[/QUOTE

I understand where you are coming from. Those who post negative quotes have no idea of the heartbreak, and constant sorrow of those close to those exposed to this terrible drug. Just one taste, is enough to send them down the road of despair. All those good old boys , up on their high horse, tough internet warriors all, should just hope and pray their nearest and dearest are not caught up in this nightmare. And the odds are, some will. This is not a drug that catches addicts, in the main. It catches mainly innocent kids, under peer pressure, much the same as back in my day, kids started drinking beer, then progressed to spirits, to be in the group. Wake up, you mob, before it is too late, not for Christs sake, but for Australia's sake. I feel your pain, Mrs Chops. And admire your courage for speaking out.

[bob10]

Thank you Chops for your realistic approach.
My motto is, "Do the crime, do the time",.....NO exceptions,.....the do-gooders will not agree.
Pickles.


I'm just about over this crap " do- gooders". Explain who you mean by that statement. Are you talking about religious leaders, who are at the front in this fight? What, the Salvation Army? Do-gooders? They would agree. And their answer to your statement would probably be better to do good, than sit back and criticize and do nothing. How about those who supply the drugs? Should they be punished more than those who take them? Interested in your thoughts.

[bob10]

Mother allegedly on meth when Adelaide Hills car crash killed young son (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/mother-allegedly-on-meth-when-adelaide-hills-car-crash-killed-young-son/ar-BBHv0tv?ocid=spartandhp)

[bob10]

Very true.
I was amused to discover less road rage and more patient driving in genuinely congested Bangkok when I lived there than in relatively sleepy Brisbane, where impatient nobs rant about the slightest inconvenience.
Maybe it's social. We are a highly individualistic society, whereas Thais have the typical Asian group mentality. We should be less like Americans and more like Asians, I think.

Ask any veteran about their return home, how the first thought is usually how Australians obsess on trivial matters. Self centred, selfish, ill mannered, the World owes Australians a living. [ not all, I know, but they stand out. ] We should be more like the Australians who did it tough, those who lived through the Great Depression. NOT Americans. And not Asians. Those people were our greatest generation.

[bob10]

At least some one is on the job.

Drugs worth $415 million seized by Australian Navy in Christmas season operation (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/drugs-worth-dollar415-million-seized-by-australian-navy-in-christmas-season-operation/ar-BBHvnEY?li=AAavLaF&ocid=spartandhp)

[trog]

Reminds me of the old news reels of the depression. The revenuers , getting hold of the bootleg booze and smashing the barrels. This time it is not taxable. If I am correct in my history a lot of prominent families did good with the distribution and sales of illegal alcohol. Then again there was the coke and CIA affair a while back. If their is money to be made someone will step in. If alcohol nicotine and all other drugs are restricted inc caffeine I will believe this is the correct course of action. There is no answer right or wrong , some of us will partake in substances no matter what , As will the hoons , and anyone else not abiding by the straight up and down code of some. From what I have read fantynil is doing a great job of calming down ice addicts. Plenty of others too.

[Mick_Marsh]

215km/h
Queensland P-plater fined $1,177 after allegedly driving 215kph in 110kph zone - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-30/p-plater-allegedly-caught-driving-more-than-100km-over-limit/9294814)


Police say they have detected more than 21,000 speeding motorists in the first seven days of the festive break.

Wow! That'd swell the Queensland coffers

[V8Ian]

0.16 BAC
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-01/truganina-car-crashes-into-house/9296278

Proceeded against by summons, doesn't Victoria Police take this seriously?

[Mick_Marsh]

0.16 BAC
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-01/truganina-car-crashes-into-house/9296278

Proceeded against by summons, doesn't Victoria Police take this seriously?

He was just learning. I think, technically, he was only driving on a permit, not a licence. The responsible driver was the fully licenced driver beside him. There was a fully licenced driver beside him, wasn't there?

[V8Ian]

Did you read the article, Mick?

[Mick_Marsh]

Did you read the article, Mick?
Yes.
Did you understand what I was saying. Obviously there was no one responsible. He'll get a slap on the wrist.

[DiscoMick]

[QUOTE=Chops;2756416]In regards to some of the comments in this thread. I myself have a nephew who is an active ice addict. When he is a clean addict( he will always be an addict wether active or not) he is one of the most caring loving man you could ever want to meet, but unfortunately for all and especially his wife and kids he has spent more time being an active addict then not. Every time he gets locked up or goes off to rehab we pray that he will be able to stay clean. Unfortunately not. I'm very much you do the crime you the time but jails these days are full of drugs and he came out this time worse then ever. So this drug destroys all that are touched by it. So no excuse from me, whatever his actions under the influence of ice he deserves to be punished and yes the laws need to be harsher. I also know we will get a call one day that this terrible addiction has taken his life.
MRS CHOPS[/QUOTE

I understand where you are coming from. Those who post negative quotes have no idea of the heartbreak, and constant sorrow of those close to those exposed to this terrible drug. Just one taste, is enough to send them down the road of despair. All those good old boys , up on their high horse, tough internet warriors all, should just hope and pray their nearest and dearest are not caught up in this nightmare. And the odds are, some will. This is not a drug that catches addicts, in the main. It catches mainly innocent kids, under peer pressure, much the same as back in my day, kids started drinking beer, then progressed to spirits, to be in the group. Wake up, you mob, before it is too late, not for Christs sake, but for Australia's sake. I feel your pain, Mrs Chops. And admire your courage for speaking out.
Yes, I agree, it's very sad and such a waste. It's easy to criticise and talk tough about law and order, but it's real people who are being destroyed and law and order chest-beating does nothing to make them better. There are no quick solutions because each person is different.

[Mick_Marsh]

Obviously, the cause of this accident was speed.
Dashcam footage captures crash near Townsville after teens in allegedly stolen vehicle injure three - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-15/dashcam-footage-of-teens-stolen-car-crash-far-north-queensland/9330804)

To reduce accidents, the limit on that road must be reduced.

[Ean Austral]

Obviously, the cause of this accident was speed.
Dashcam footage captures crash near Townsville after teens in allegedly stolen vehicle injure three - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-15/dashcam-footage-of-teens-stolen-car-crash-far-north-queensland/9330804)

To reduce accidents, the limit on that road must be reduced.

And their friends in the other stolen car who came back to get them when they crashed should make sure they drive to the lower speed limit as well Mick . [bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

another slap on the wrist .

Cheers Ean

[Mick_Marsh]

And their friends in the other stolen car who came back to get them when they crashed should make sure they drive to the lower speed limit as well Mick . [bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

another slap on the wrist .

Cheers Ean
Absolutely.
The fact they were under aged and unlicenced had nothing to do with it.

And they weren't thieves. They were just bored teenagers looking for something to do. It's not their fault they were bored.

[Ean Austral]

Absolutely.
The fact they were under aged and unlicenced had nothing to do with it.

And they weren't thieves. They were just bored teenagers looking for something to do. It's not their fault they were bored.

You forgot that they came from broken homes so we need to feel sorry for them cause they have suffered enough already. They were just venting their frustration because the system let them down.

[CraigE]

Every one is a critic until a close family member is caught up in addiction. Then watch how fast they change their mind.

IceFight - Videos (http://www.icefight.com.au/latest-news/videos)

Bob yes it is sad and seen way too much of it, but again it is self inflicted by taking the first dose No one to blame but the pushers, users and an ineffective corrupt govt. There is that much information and education out there but so many still think it wont be them.
So sick of people feeling sorry for violent ice addicts. My niece was beaten up by her drug addled boyfriend. Total tool and continuous loser, that Mummy thinks is an angel. I should have let my brother kill him when he had him by the throat, instead I had to pull my brother off to ensure he did not go to jail. Guess what this expletive did? Did it again, threatened my parents and has since done it to other girls. No place on this earth for vilent addicts. Yes people need help but they also must deserve it and want it.
What does it take for people (do gooders) to see what is occurring? Another violent drug fueled murder? My niece was lucky as she was close and I was there that night. They dont care, this was at my parents house, the night of my grand mothers funeral, so shows just how little respect they have for anyone and anything. Talk to me again about compassion and rehab when you see someone face smashed into a brick wall because they would not go out and get someone drugs.
In my opinion dealers should be executed no ifs and buts. While we are a soft society blaming everyone else, nothing will change, but will only get worse and that is the path we are following as noone is accountable, we are all victims with no offenders.

[gordo 350]

In years to come the prisons will be full of good people who tried to defend their families

[bob10]

Bob yes it is sad and seen way too much of it, but again it is self inflicted by taking the first dose No one to blame but the pushers, users and an ineffective corrupt govt. There is that much information and education out there but so many still think it wont be them.
So sick of people feeling sorry for violent ice addicts. My niece was beaten up by her drug addled boyfriend. Total tool and continuous loser, that Mummy thinks is an angel. I should have let my brother kill him when he had him by the throat, instead I had to pull my brother off to ensure he did not go to jail. Guess what this expletive did? Did it again, threatened my parents and has since done it to other girls. No place on this earth for vilent addicts. Yes people need help but they also must deserve it and want it.
What does it take for people (do gooders) to see what is occurring? Another violent drug fueled murder? My niece was lucky as she was close and I was there that night. They dont care, this was at my parents house, the night of my grand mothers funeral, so shows just how little respect they have for anyone and anything. Talk to me again about compassion and rehab when you see someone face smashed into a brick wall because they would not go out and get someone drugs.
In my opinion dealers should be executed no ifs and buts. While we are a soft society blaming everyone else, nothing will change, but will only get worse and that is the path we are following as noone is accountable, we are all victims with no offenders.

Was a formal complaint made to Police about those alleged offences? What follow up occurred? We had a problem at our end of the street, with one household of ice addicts. One day we were all informed by a neighbour to ignore any unusual noises early in the morning. Early next morning there was a terrible uproar, sounded like a herd of cattle running thru the place. Ambulances , police , what a mess. Still don't know who belted the addicts. No one heard or saw a thing, didn't see the arseholes again. The local Sgt came and gave the lecture about taking the law into our own hands, etc, etc, nice and quiet around here after that. Not that I endorse such action, Mind. It doesn't stop the problem, just moves it on somewhere else. There comes a time to stand up, and put these people in their place. It has been suggested that ice addicts should be made to live next door to the Magistrates that hand out the soft punishments. I think they should make them live with them.

[CraigE]

Was a formal complaint made to Police about those alleged offences? What follow up occurred? We had a problem at our end of the street, with one household of ice addicts. One day we were all informed by a neighbour to ignore any unusual noises early in the morning. Early next morning there was a terrible uproar, sounded like a herd of cattle running thru the place. Ambulances , police , what a mess. Still don't know who belted the addicts. No one heard or saw a thing, didn't see the arseholes again. The local Sgt came and gave the lecture about taking the law into our own hands, etc, etc, nice and quiet around here after that. Not that I endorse such action, Mind. It doesn't stop the problem, just moves it on somewhere else. There comes a time to stand up, and put these people in their place. It has been suggested that ice addicts should be made to live next door to the Magistrates that hand out the soft punishments. I think they should make them live with them.
Yeah Bob a complaint was made. The police were great and indicated there was no way my brother would face charges for reacting to him. He was charged eventually but took 2 months to catch him. He eventually got 2 years jail, but was out in 10 months. Wont and has no intention of reforming. The disturbing thing is he has done it again since and we have since found out done it to 3 other girls before my niece. What is worse is his mother thinks he is an angel, knew about previous assaults and did not inform anyone. His father and brothers have had enough and at least acknowledge the danger he is. The problem is my niece will now have psychological issues for ever and is actually now in self admitted care for a bit. Drugs aside if he comes near her again it will be the last thing he ever does.
Cheers
Craig

[ramblingboy42]

In years to come the prisons will be full of good people who tried to defend their families

a friend of mine recently did time because he went to the aid of a girl he knew and had liked for years. her bf , in an ice rage was beating her badly so my friend took to him with a piece of waterpipe. The ice freak got off , my friend got time.

i know there will be a follow up to this but I hope my friend does it on dark night in fully blacked costume leaving no traces.

btw the ice freak has since beaten her again.

vigilantes? right place , right time , definitely.

[gordo 350]

I have a problem with the word vigilantes. It implies you are doing something wrong. If no one else will do the right thing then it is up to us

[ramblingboy42]

vigilante is a member of society who assumes the role of maintaining law and order......and punishing wrongdoers.

[Mick_Marsh]

vigilante is a member of society who assumes the role of maintaining law and order......and punishing wrongdoers.
A question:
The tern "law and order". Who's law and order as interpreted by whom?
And the wrongdoers. Who decides who the wrongdoers are? Is evidence taken into account? Who tests this evidence. Does the accused have an avenue of appeal? Is the accused assigned representation? What are the repercussions if the vigilante is later proved wrong after punishment has been given?

[trout1105]

Being a "Vigilante" is all well and good But it all depends on the "motive" for being one.
If your motive is based on Revenge or a need for justice then a vigilante reaction is Not a good idea.
If your motive is to prevent injury or harm to yourself or others then I cannot see why it is wrong to take this sort of affirmative action.
The Police pretty much have their hands tied because of the soft approach they have to take with scumbags and it must be very disheartening for them to keep arresting the same offenders just to see them back on the streets all the time.
About 25 years ago I found out that my ex brother in law was sexually abusing my niece, I asked him about this and he admitted it.
The Police were called and pretty much nothing was done so I gave him the flogging of his life after he assaulted my nice once again.
I dropped him off on the side of the highway and called the police, They told me that he had been involved in an unfortunate incident with a passing truck and that was the end of the matter.
After spending a few weeks in hospital he moved interstate He NEVER reoffended and my niece was then safe.
IF I had done Nothing I would hate to think what would have happened.

[Pickles2]

Bob yes it is sad and seen way too much of it, but again it is self inflicted by taking the first dose No one to blame but the pushers, users and an ineffective corrupt govt. There is that much information and education out there but so many still think it wont be them.
So sick of people feeling sorry for violent ice addicts. My niece was beaten up by her drug addled boyfriend. Total tool and continuous loser, that Mummy thinks is an angel. I should have let my brother kill him when he had him by the throat, instead I had to pull my brother off to ensure he did not go to jail. Guess what this expletive did? Did it again, threatened my parents and has since done it to other girls. No place on this earth for vilent addicts. Yes people need help but they also must deserve it and want it.
What does it take for people (do gooders) to see what is occurring? Another violent drug fueled murder? My niece was lucky as she was close and I was there that night. They dont care, this was at my parents house, the night of my grand mothers funeral, so shows just how little respect they have for anyone and anything. Talk to me again about compassion and rehab when you see someone face smashed into a brick wall because they would not go out and get someone drugs.
In my opinion dealers should be executed no ifs and buts. While we are a soft society blaming everyone else, nothing will change, but will only get worse and that is the path we are following as noone is accountable, we are all victims with no offenders.
So true mate, so VERY true,.....but mate,.....WHO'S LISTENING?.
But I tell anyone who wants to listen, afraid to say, only the very small minority is listening, i ain't going to give examples,...don't need to,...if ya don't believe what's happening in Melbourne from what anyone can read in the press, it'd FOR SURE that you ain't gonna believe what I say. So I ain't gonna try to change anyone's mind.
Just pray that what is happening to ever increasing numbers of innocent families who are being crucified by druggies, home invaders, repeat offenders, crims out on multiple repeat bail etc etc etc etc, does not ever affect you.
And of course, if I repeated where the majority of these violent, vicious offenders came from, I'd be classed s a racist, so I won't,....but like I said, if ya want a touch of reality, ya can always google.....but it's not good,....it's actually just a little bit frightening.
Pickles.

[gordo 350]

.

[bob10]

So true mate, so VERY true,.....but mate,.....WHO'S LISTENING?.
But I tell anyone who wants to listen, afraid to say, only the very small minority is listening, i ain't going to give examples,...don't need to,...if ya don't believe what's happening in Melbourne from what anyone can read in the press, it'd FOR SURE that you ain't gonna believe what I say. So I ain't gonna try to change anyone's mind.
Just pray that what is happening to ever increasing numbers of innocent families who are being crucified by druggies, home invaders, repeat offenders, crims out on multiple repeat bail etc etc etc etc, does not ever affect you.
And of course, if I repeated where the majority of these violent, vicious offenders came from, I'd be classed s a racist, so I won't,....but like I said, if ya want a touch of reality, ya can always google.....but it's not good,....it's actually just a little bit frightening.
Pickles.

I'll give you a game plan, which works. Obviously people our age can not get involved in physical altercations, and nor should we.
Get to know your Neighbourhood watch co-ordinator. He/She is the link between you and the Police. They have meetings with the police on a constant basis, and form a close relationship with them. A good watch co-ordinator will keep residents informed of trends in your area, either by text or E- mail, [ the secret of knowing your N.W.C. is you get on their mailing list] , break ins, car thefts, anything trending, along with descriptions of suspects. Become those nosy old farts we used to hear about. It's called overt surveillance , if a stranger walks down your street, eyeball them, in a nice way, say good morning or what ever, make them know they have been noticed. Better still, if they look suspicious, take a photo. Discretely , of course. Your police station will have a book full of miscreants photos. If an incident has occurred in your area, your random photo may be the key.

The police can not do it all on their own. Become what I call the Grey Army. Become the nosy old bastard who lives up the road. Go along to the meetings with the police, get to know them, who to ring in an emergency. Ringing your local Sgt or his representative can be quicker than ringing 000.Most police love to interact with the public, in a good way. It gives them the feeling we are on their side, and it's not us and them. Organise meetings of the N.W.C. , held in your part of the street, at your house, or another. You will get to know neighbours quicker if they think they are making a difference, everyone on the same page. It also helps elderly people living alone to know they are not alone. It may not happen straight away, but eventually word will get out to these nefarious characters that your part of town is not an easy mark. They live in a sub-culture that pick on what they regard as soft targets, and word will get around their group you are not a soft target. I really can't stress enough confrontation is not our go. Be the eyes and ears of your police force. If you don't have a neighbourhood watch, start one. Any way, you get my drift.

[bob10]

Any one know these girls?

Brazen teen trio caught on CCTV lighting Melton West fire (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/brazen-teen-trio-caught-on-cctv-lighting-melton-west-fire/ar-AAuQHqY?li=AAavLaF&ocid=spartandhp)

[DiscoMick]

I'll give you a game plan, which works. Obviously people our age can not get involved in physical altercations, and nor should we.
Get to know your Neighbourhood watch co-ordinator. He/She is the link between you and the Police. They have meetings with the police on a constant basis, and form a close relationship with them. A good watch co-ordinator will keep residents informed of trends in your area, either by text or E- mail, [ the secret of knowing your N.W.C. is you get on their mailing list] , break ins, car thefts, anything trending, along with descriptions of suspects. Become those nosy old farts we used to hear about. It's called overt surveillance , if a stranger walks down your street, eyeball them, in a nice way, say good morning or what ever, make them know they have been noticed. Better still, if they look suspicious, take a photo. Discretely , of course. Your police station will have a book full of miscreants photos. If an incident has occurred in your area, your random photo may be the key.

The police can not do it all on their own. Become what I call the Grey Army. Become the nosy old bastard who lives up the road. Go along to the meetings with the police, get to know them, who to ring in an emergency. Ringing your local Sgt or his representative can be quicker than ringing 000.Most police love to interact with the public, in a good way. It gives them the feeling we are on their side, and it's not us and them. Organise meetings of the N.W.C. , held in your part of the street, at your house, or another. You will get to know neighbours quicker if they think they are making a difference, everyone on the same page. It also helps elderly people living alone to know they are not alone. It may not happen straight away, but eventually word will get out to these nefarious characters that your part of town is not an easy mark. They live in a sub-culture that pick on what they regard as soft targets, and word will get around their group you are not a soft target. I really can't stress enough confrontation is not our go. Be the eyes and ears of your police force. If you don't have a neighbourhood watch, start one. Any way, you get my drift.
My neighbour is a senior police officer, so we just talk with him. An under cover police officer also lives in our street. We all know he's there. Apparently he specialises in bikies, if the street gossip is true.

[Classic88]

Here's what actually works to combat drug use.

Treat it as a disease, not a crime: How to Win a War on Drugs - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html)

[gordo 350]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/798.jpg

[Classic88]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/798.jpg

I can't answer that one for you I'm afraid. I'm from the UK so the chemo is free.

[trog]

Here's what actually works to combat drug use.

Treat it as a disease, not a crime: How to Win a War on Drugs - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html)

I have heard similar on a few radio broadcasts as well. Simple prohibition just isn't working.