Smoky D4 video

[DiscoJeffster]

I saw this on Facebook. A D4 blowing monstrous clouds of smoke in the street. Not sure what has happened, but it doesn't look happy!

Roll Coal! - Dash Cam Owners Off Road (https://www.facebook.com/DashCamOwnersOffRoad/videos/1683082388420867/)

[justinc]

I saw this on Facebook. A D4 blowing monstrous clouds of smoke in the street. Not sure what has happened, but it doesn't look happy!

Roll Coal! - Dash Cam Owners Off Road (https://www.facebook.com/DashCamOwnersOffRoad/videos/1683082388420867/)

Runaway diesel. Likely to have been overfilled at service or turbocharger/s failure . It is a show stopper alright . The best way to tackle it is to empty a few c02 fire extinguishers into the air intake however getting up close to a screaming predetonating engine to do this isn't everyones cup of tea. Best to stand back and let her blow when it runs out of the engine oil as a source of fuel....

[PerthDisco]

Justin, If you could block the side air intake (not sure if D4 has two) with a pillow or flat cardboard (or even one half of your backside) would it be enough to kill it or can it still suck enough air between intake and air cleaner box to keep running?

I know the Detroit 2 strokes were famous for this but thought it was very hard for a normal diesel to run away?

Edit: it would possible to check this solution on a non runaway engine

[TB]

The comments on Facebook reckon this is the explanation:
Diesel engine runaway - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine_runaway)

[DiscoJeffster]

The comments on Facebook reckon this is the explanation:
Diesel engine runaway - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine_runaway)

Always a reliable source of information lol.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

How can it be anything else?? its a runaway,,

anyone that owns a diesel should know about this,,

it may never happen to you,, but it might to someone with you--

As Justin explained,, but do YOU know how to stop yours? or what causes it?

[whitey56]

I have seen this a few times on the highway, even happened to a mate in a Scania he reckons he had 2 feet on the brake pedal trying to pull her up, although 2 feet would be useless on air brakes.
I drove old Macks for a few years doing a lot of slow work occasionally you would nearly stall them and they would pickup but run backwards blowing half the oil out of the oil-bath filter over the guard and bonnet, that was different the first time but a runaway turbo would be darn scary.

[SSmith]

How can it be anything else?? its a runaway,,

anyone that owns a diesel should know about this,,

We had a runaway at work 2 - 4 weeks ago. Cummins motor in a Kenworth prime mover. I was amazed (and also ashamed) at how many "truckies" had no idea.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

result was?? :eek2:

[scarry]

result was?? :eek2:

One less Cummins..

One Kenworth looking for new motor

[Tins]

I have seen this a few times on the highway, even happened to a mate in a Scania he reckons he had 2 feet on the brake pedal trying to pull her up, although 2 feet would be useless on air brakes.


It is also nearly impossible to get your left foot around the steering column on a Scania cab over.

[Tins]

Posted this before. When doing the tune up on the GM in the M113 APCs the Army had, there was a printed sequence to follow. It was on a clip board. The clipboard was made of 4mm ally sheet. The purpose of this was to slap the clipboard over the air intake in the event of a runaway. Those old V6 Turbos were famous for runaways, probably because they were two stroke.

[SSmith]

One less Cummins..

One Kenworth looking for new motorBit of a let down really.
No spectacular boom, it either siezed or just starved when it ran out of oil.

What was alledgedy hillarious. Some bright spark decided to rebuild it....... It threw a rod and nearly tool out the dyno room.

Covered under warranty (newish truck) new crate motor put in.

Already back on the road. Have not spoken to the day shift driver, but i am telling every one of the night crew that drive it to grab the 9kg fire extinguisher.......

[DiscoJeffster]

Well there you go. I’d heard if it but never seen it, let alone on a Disco. A self perpetuating cycle that can only be stopped by removing the air. I guess at least having a snorkel makes stopping the air easier by bagging it.

[rick130]

Well there you go. I’d heard if it but never seen it, let alone on a Disco. A self perpetuating cycle that can only be stopped by removing the air. I guess at least having a snorkel makes stopping the air easier by bagging it.

A few members here have experienced it resulting in expensive replacements.

As one of my mates said when it happened to him, he didn't know what it was and just wanted to get the hell away from it. He may have been able to choke the snorkel with a rag. Maybe.
Or dump the extinguisher down it.

All he could think to do was dip the clutch and let it rev into oblivion.

I've seen it once on a Volvo tipper and felt for the driver, he was just standing beside it with his shoulders slumped, smoke streaming form everywhere.

[PerthDisco]

I guess at least having a snorkel makes stopping the air easier by bagging it.

Having the air intake on the side of the vehicle should make it even easier to smother with a plastic bag over it or similar without having to lift the bonnet of the screaming engine.

I will try it one day to test but I’m under the impression the journey from the side intake to air box is not perfectly sealed.

[bee utey]

Having the air intake on the side of the vehicle should make it even easier to smother with a plastic bag over it or similar without having to lift the bonnet of the screaming engine.

I will try it one day to test but I’m under the impression the journey from the side intake to air box is not perfectly sealed.

Snorkel heads usually have four drain points to separate the rain from the air, a plastic bag would have to be drawn down to cover these slots. Not sure how much an ordinary plastic bag would stop before failing under vacuum.

I once machined up an old petrol engine throttle body to install into the air intake of a friend's D1 diesel, all it would have taken to operate is a simple choke cable. For some reason he never installed it, must be because he's never seen a diesel runaway video. One day I'll get him to fit it.

[PerthDisco]

I once machined up an old petrol engine throttle body to install into the air intake of a friend's D1 diesel, all it would have taken to operate is a simple choke cable. For some reason he never installed it, must be because he's never seen a diesel runaway video. One day I'll get him to fit it.

That’s the same concept of arrangement marine versions of Detroit 2 strokes had factory fitted.

P.S. they sound great those engines

[DiscoJeffster]

The air volume through a couple of small drain holes compared to the entire 3” snorkel flow for example are miles apart and should be enough to stop it if have thought

[bee utey]

The air volume through a couple of small drain holes compared to the entire 3” snorkel flow for example are miles apart and should be enough to stop it if have thought

Clearly I've not seen every snorkel ever made but the ones I have seen have quite large drain channels.

[shanegtr]

Not sure how much an ordinary plastic bag would stop before failing under vacuum.


you'd be suprised, I've seen photos of tanks that have failed and imploded under vacuuum apparently because of a plastic bag

[PerthDisco]

With car idling I just tried completely covering the side intake with heavy rubber swim caps and a damp towel over the top of them.

Literally no restriction and not even enough vacuum to hold the swim caps onto the intake against gravity.

Not going to stop a runaway engine this way.

[Beery]

It would've helped if the driver had tried, for example, turning it off. Modern diesels have got throttle flaps on the intake manifold. Its used to create a pressure drop to increase EGR gas flow. It also closes at engine shutdown to choke off the air supply so the engine doesn't rock back and forth like old diesels did.

[Oztourer]

Justin, If you could block the side air intake (not sure if D4 has two) with a pillow or flat cardboard (or even one half of your backside) would it be enough to kill it or can it still suck enough air between intake and air cleaner box to keep running?

I know the Detroit 2 strokes were famous for this but thought it was very hard for a normal diesel to run away?

Edit: it would possible to check this solution on a non runaway engine

I doubt this would work. The pipe running through the wheel arch between the air intake grill and the filter box is not sealed so air would still be drawn in. This pipe is replaced with a sealed pipe on the Safari snorkel.

[DiscoJeffster]

I doubt this would work. The pipe running through the wheel arch between the air intake grill and the filter box is not sealed so air would still be drawn in. This pipe is replaced with a sealed pipe on the Safari snorkel.

I tried my Safari earlier with a shopping bag but was foiled by the rain drains in the snorkel head letting in air. You’d need a long heavy bag if it would work at all. I believe there might also be a water drain in the air box as well that needs closing off. All in all, still difficult.

[northiam]

It would've helped if the driver had tried, for example, turning it off. Modern diesels have got throttle flaps on the intake manifold. Its used to create a pressure drop to increase EGR gas flow. It also closes at engine shutdown to choke off the air supply so the engine doesn't rock back and forth like old diesels did.


Was thinking the same thing!
Are you sure the intake buttefly and egr valves all close on shutdown?
Surely the driver would have thought to push the off button...

[DiscoJeffster]

Was thinking the same thing!
Are you sure the intake buttefly and egr valves all close on shutdown?
Surely the driver would have thought to push the off button...

The throttle body is opened at some stage once shutdown as whenever I have worked on mine the throttle is always found at the wide open position. If it does close, it’s only temporary.

[Beery]

The throttle body is opened at some stage once shutdown as whenever I have worked on mine the throttle is always found at the wide open position. If it does close, it’s only temporary.
Yeah I think you're right. Throttle is normally open and Im pretty sure EGR valves are normally closed.

[DazzaTD5]

Oh nasty..... had it just been serviced at a dealer? [tonguewink][tonguewink] (personal option only).

As for blocking intake with rags/bags/towels etc etc... not a hope in hell, my guess is that there would be that much intake suction anything that was put over intake would cleanly get sucked in.... with your undies [tonguewink][tonguewink]

Regards
Daz

[therev]

I wonder if blocking the exhaust might would choke the engine to stop it?

[PeterJ]

I even wonder if it's not someone having a good laugh by putting oil into the exhaust system just after the turbo. If I remember correctly there was a bit of that sort of stuff going on when I was a mad teenager. [emoji15]

[eddy]

Ah yes,the old Redex decoke!One of these would probably work if there was easy access to the air filter box ie clips instead of screws Element Fire Extinguisher (https://www.elementfire.com/) Have to smash a hole in the cover?

[letherm]

Ah yes,the old Redex decoke!

That brings back memories from too many years ago of the old man laying down a smoke screen big enough to hide a destroyer doing just that.[smilebigeye]

Martin

[bee utey]

you'd be suprised, I've seen photos of tanks that have failed and imploded under vacuuum apparently because of a plastic bag

Fuel tanks? Not surprised, they're not designed to hold any significant vacuum. An engine going bonkers would be approaching a 25" vacuum with a bag cover, for sure. There would be 30-40kg of air pressure load on a bag across a 75mm duct.

[shanegtr]

Fuel tanks? Not surprised, they're not designed to hold any significant vacuum. An engine going bonkers would be approaching a 25" vacuum with a bag cover, for sure. There would be 30-40kg of air pressure load on a bag across a 75mm duct.
No, I was more talking about this scale:
http://sache.org/beacon/files/2007/02/en/read/2007-02-Beacon-s.pdf

[RR P38]

I have never really thought much of Diesel engines
Purely from a toxic view point, the emissions from a modern diesel engine are extremely carcinogenic.
The particulate size (ie its very small) is mostly non respirable many pass through the lining of the lungs and go directly into the blood stream.
I love watching mummies sitting with a car full of kids on a hot day engine running AC on and not moving all the while sitting in a cloud of carcinogenic smog.
Pollution levels in big cities have increased dramatically in the sub 10 micron and 2 micron range, mostly attributable to the increased numbers of diesel vehicles.
Australia has the the second highest level of sulphur permissible in fuel as well. And we wonder why we have one of the highest levels of Asthma in the world?
Just look at any of the modern diesels under hard acceleration and convince your self that they are not killing us in droves

Bring on electric cars.........it cant happen fast enough

[LRT]

There is some great runway videos of 2 stroke Detroits on YouTube.

RUN AWAY Detroit Diesel! 453-T - YouTube (https://youtu.be/3NRaqgab0_w)

Diesel Runaway! Detroit Diesel 4-71 Runs Away After 30 Year Start, Old Guy Saves The Day! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/vbiNndfNNKI)


The TimberJack log skidders with Detroits all have an emergency cut-off flap in the blower housing operated by a cable.
However, the blower seals usually suck in and if their's an airlock downstream it can keep running.

I remember a bloke who used to work on barges in the Navy and he remembers 2 brand new Detroits running away backwards in a barge and they just let them blow. He said the engine room walls were imbedded with metal afterwards!

[67hardtop]

The R190 International GM 2 stroke V6 diesel i drove had the flaps under the blower to stop the engine running away. I remember the boss telling me "dont pull that cable unless the engine runs out of control". I had no idea what he meant till i seen it happen one day on another diesel engine. The mechanic shoved a phone book on the intake and that stopped it. He told me never use your hand or it can actually suck the flesh of it. True or not, i dont want to try it...lol.

Cheers Rod

[LRT]

The R190 International GM 2 stroke V6 diesel i drove had the flaps under the blower to stop the engine running away. I remember the boss telling me "dont pull that cable unless the engine runs out of control". I had no idea what he meant till i seen it happen one day on another diesel engine. The mechanic shoved a phone book on the intake and that stopped it. He told me never use your hand or it can actually suck the flesh of it. True or not, i dont want to try it...lol.

Cheers Rod

I know someone who accidentally pulled the emergency cable on a 3-71 instead of the regular stop cable & worryingly it kept running, albeit very slowly with a lot of blue smoke! Ideally the blower should've been pulled apart to replace the seals but as it was at idle when the cable was pulled it was ok in this instance. The main problem is the fuel injector control racks sticking.

I would definitely not want to use my hand. Most old timers working on the Detroits had a piece of plate with a handle to prevent fingers getting lost.

[DazzaTD5]

Bring on electric cars.........it cant happen fast enough

I see people driving electric or hybrid cars are shake my head that they somehow believe they are doing anything that benefits anything....

Regards
Daz

[cripesamighty]

The true benefit of electric cars is they take emissions away from the inner city leaving them at the source of power production, whatever that may be. Electric cars are not actually very ‘green’ in any other sense.

[LRT]

I see people driving electric or hybrid cars are shake my head that they somehow believe they are doing anything that benefits anything....

Regards
Daz

There's plenty of cartoons demonstrating the major issue about the environmentally friendly car. The other problem is the limited lifespan of the batteries & the emissions caused by creating the car. Nothing is truly renewable. If we weren't so dependent of upgrading cars so often in this throwaway society we could develop a nuclear powered car.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/698.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/699.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/700.jpg

[PerthDisco]

France generates a lot of power from nuclear. That’s a win win for them. Renewables make up a lot of the rest as in many EU countries that are mandating electric vehicles in built up areas. Petrol electric hybrids will be popular also.

Funny how a lot of France lives within cooee of a nuclear power station quite happily and enjoy low cost reliable power.

The adverts really apply to Australia’s energy situation. It’s a surprise we don’t have a travel warning for France due to the extreme nuclear risk our politicians are so worried about.

[LRT]

France generates a lot of power from nuclear. That’s a win win for them. Renewables make up a lot of the rest as in many EU countries that are mandating electric vehicles in built up areas. Petrol electric hybrids will be popular also.

Funny how a lot of France lives within cooee of a nuclear power station quite happily and enjoy low cost reliable power.

The adverts really apply to Australia’s energy situation. It’s a surprise we don’t have a travel warning for France due to the extreme nuclear risk our politicians are so worried about.

Yes just look at the early nuclear submarine - capable of circumnavigating the world at 20knots using a piece of uranium no bigger than a golf ball & not having to surface for oxygen. Pretty good!

What I find interesting is that all the areas in Australia that are Uranium rich are Aboriginal sacred areas so can't be mined [emoji848]

USS Nautilus (SSN-571) - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nautilus_(SSN-571))

Nuclear marine propulsion - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_marine_propulsion)

Anyway I'm rapidly taking the thread off topic....

[dhula]

Posted this before. When doing the tune up on the GM in the M113 APCs the Army had, there was a printed sequence to follow. It was on a clip board. The clipboard was made of 4mm ally sheet. The purpose of this was to slap the clipboard over the air intake in the event of a runaway. Those old V6 Turbos were famous for runaways, probably because they were two stroke.

What's really sad is I still remember the ditty so it's done right and it's been almost 20 years since I last worked on one. - Valery Tickles Gary's Balls Mainly In Bed.
The clipboard was more for stopping the engine revving at full noise (usually due to cocking up the rack balancing) than a runaway though

[RR P38]

I see people driving electric or hybrid cars are shake my head that they somehow believe they are doing anything that benefits anything....

Regards
Daz

Im pretty sure people driving Tesla cars for free are very happy using the free charging stations
Head out to Hartley in the blue mountains there is a Solar genius at Hartley solar who pays ZERO to drive his car, its recharged from his panels on display out front of his shop.

If carbon pricing wasn't killed off we would have carbon sequestration at point of production (power stations) reducing emissions significantly. But no, again to stupid to see the forest for the trees and now they have killed off any sensible investment in base load power production..........so we will be in a state of turmoil for some time with power cuts looming.
Coal cant compete at all with renewables, no investment houses will go near coal power production.

[DazzaTD5]

Im pretty sure people driving Tesla cars for free are very happy using the free charging stations
Head out to Hartley in the blue mountains there is a Solar genius at Hartley solar who pays ZERO to drive his car, its recharged from his panels on display out front of his shop.

If carbon pricing wasn't killed off we would have carbon sequestration at point of production (power stations) reducing emissions significantly. But no, again to stupid to see the forest for the trees and now they have killed off any sensible investment in base load power production..........so we will be in a state of turmoil for some time with power cuts looming.
Coal cant compete at all with renewables, no investment houses will go near coal power production.

What part of owning a tesla ****box is FREE or ZERO ??? the purchase price $120K and then some or the cost of installing the solar panels etc?
Return on investment looks like the only ZERO thing there.

Motor vehicles account for around 8% of Australia's emissions, the big killer is our electricity production, you know all that nasty coal being burnt. Add to that we export 3 times as much coal as we burn. If Australia (if we actually had a working Government) was serious about our health and that of the planet we would stop burning coal and stop selling it.

Again if Australia was serious about our health they would get rid of Australia's fleet of aging old emissions spewing trucks that are used as inner city deliveries and wharf to distribution centre deliveries. This is where real world answers lay in such hybrid and electric trucks from FUSO / DAIMLER, not pie in the sky bull**** from tesla.

Regards
Daz

[bee utey]

And another thread degenerates into an unhinged rant against electric cars. :clap2:

[LRT]

And another thread degenerates into an unhinged rant against electric cars. :clap2:

Erm sorry about that - lets get back to runaway 'Screamin Jimmies' or Peugeots...[emoji6]

[rangieman]

And another thread degenerates into an unhinged rant against electric cars. :clap2:
Where did you read that as i haven`t seen any of that in this thread [wink11]
Not being precious are we[bighmmm]

[Disco_Rob]

I doubt this would work. The pipe running through the wheel arch between the air intake grill and the filter box is not sealed so air would still be drawn in. This pipe is replaced with a sealed pipe on the Safari snorkel.

What would be the point in fitting a raised air intake if the first time you drive into water thinking you are safe because the air entry level into the engine is at the top of windscreen level but you suddenly come to a stop with a bang because you haven't sealed everything below?
Any decent snorkel kit comes with instructions. And an important instruction is the one that tells you to remember to seal any drain holes in the air box...

[Disco_Rob]

Oh nasty..... had it just been serviced at a dealer? [tonguewink][tonguewink] (personal option only).

As for blocking intake with rags/bags/towels etc etc... not a hope in hell, my guess is that there would be that much intake suction anything that was put over intake would cleanly get sucked in.... with your undies [tonguewink][tonguewink]

Regards
Daz

I could believe it. I used to have a 1966 Jaguar S-Type with a 3.8 litre straight six in it. It had an auto choke but it didn't work, so to start it, I'd lift the bonnet and partially cover the air intake with the palm of my hand while pressing the starter solenoid on the wing. A mate watching me one day asked what would happen if I covered all of the tube. I said it would probably stop. So I did cover it. It did stop. AND it bloody hurt the palm of my hand when it tried to suck my hand in!
That was only on tickover. I don't think parking a buttock over the intake of a big diesel screaming it's head off would be a good idea...

[Disco_Rob]

I wonder if blocking the exhaust might would choke the engine to stop it?

I think you'd find it almost impossible to push hard enough to stop the exhaust coming out of the pipe. It would be at high pressure, plus it might not be able to breathe while you are doing it.
Then there's a chance if it all goes Pete Tong up front, that there might be some lumpy bits being fired at you, mortar style

[Disco_Rob]

I have never really thought much of Diesel engines
Purely from a toxic view point, the emissions from a modern diesel engine are extremely carcinogenic.
The particulate size (ie its very small) is mostly non respirable many pass through the lining of the lungs and go directly into the blood stream.
I love watching mummies sitting with a car full of kids on a hot day engine running AC on and not moving all the while sitting in a cloud of carcinogenic smog.
Pollution levels in big cities have increased dramatically in the sub 10 micron and 2 micron range, mostly attributable to the increased numbers of diesel vehicles.
Australia has the the second highest level of sulphur permissible in fuel as well. And we wonder why we have one of the highest levels of Asthma in the world?
Just look at any of the modern diesels under hard acceleration and convince your self that they are not killing us in droves

Bring on electric cars.........it cant happen fast enough

And yet governments told the people to buy diesels...
I drive a Disco 1 with a 300TDi because I really couldn't afford a V8's slurpings. When I bought it it was my only car on the road. Now it's my play time toy, but I also find it difficult to fight the attraction to wade in deep water. Something which you can do in a diesel and not have to worry about the spark going out.

[Disco_Rob]

The R190 International GM 2 stroke V6 diesel i drove had the flaps under the blower to stop the engine running away. I remember the boss telling me "dont pull that cable unless the engine runs out of control". I had no idea what he meant till i seen it happen one day on another diesel engine. The mechanic shoved a phone book on the intake and that stopped it. He told me never use your hand or it can actually suck the flesh of it. True or not, i dont want to try it...lol.

Cheers Rod

Given how much my hand hurt after doing that on the intake of a 3,8L jag straight six engine on tickover, I WOULD believe.
And the sad thing would be if your skin came off before it stopped, I doubt the bony bits left would form a seal so you'd be skinned AND your engine would detonate...

[Disco_Rob]

I see people driving electric or hybrid cars are shake my head that they somehow believe they are doing anything that benefits anything....

Regards
Daz

They are reducing pollution where they drive.

[Disco_Rob]

What's really sad is I still remember the ditty so it's done right and it's been almost 20 years since I last worked on one. - Valery Tickles Gary's Balls Mainly In Bed.
The clipboard was more for stopping the engine revving at full noise (usually due to cocking up the rack balancing) than a runaway though

I'm guessing it stands for something?
Valve Timing Gets Bad More If Bent???

[Disco_Rob]

What part of owning a tesla ****box is FREE or ZERO ??? the purchase price $120K and then some or the cost of installing the solar panels etc?
Return on investment looks like the only ZERO thing there.

Motor vehicles account for around 8% of Australia's emissions, the big killer is our electricity production, you know all that nasty coal being burnt. Add to that we export 3 times as much coal as we burn. If Australia (if we actually had a working Government) was serious about our health and that of the planet we would stop burning coal and stop selling it.

Again if Australia was serious about our health they would get rid of Australia's fleet of aging old emissions spewing trucks that are used as inner city deliveries and wharf to distribution centre deliveries. This is where real world answers lay in such hybrid and electric trucks from FUSO / DAIMLER, not pie in the sky bull**** from tesla.

Regards
Daz

Another John Cadogan fan? John Cadogan

[donh54]

What would be the point in fitting a raised air intake if the first time you drive into water thinking you are safe because the air entry level into the engine is at the top of windscreen level but you suddenly come to a stop with a bang because you haven't sealed everything below?
Any decent snorkel kit comes with instructions. And an important instruction is the one that tells you to remember to seal any drain holes in the air box...
They were not sold as a snorkel. I read somewhere that the RAI was an attempt to reduce the percentage of intake air taken from the dusty heights below about 1.2m, thus improving filter life in dusty environments.
Apparently Nissan and Toyota had similar offerings.
Of course, it wouldn't be the first time car manufacturers have tried to latch onto an image, using gear that is not what it seems.

[Oztourer]

What would be the point in fitting a raised air intake if the first time you drive into water thinking you are safe because the air entry level into the engine is at the top of windscreen level but you suddenly come to a stop with a bang because you haven't sealed everything below?
Any decent snorkel kit comes with instructions. And an important instruction is the one that tells you to remember to seal any drain holes in the air box...

Hey Disc_Rob
I'm not sure if you missed my point. The standard air intake on the D3(&4?) is NOT sealed. The trunking between the air intake on the side and the air filter box is slotted and is covered with a cloth sock (presumably to act as a bit of a pre filter). Even the elbows have holes in them. The LR RAI just bolts on to the outside of the vehicle. RAI's are not sold as water wading devices, they are designed to pick up cleaner air and to increase air flow into the engin (LR specifically state this). That is why blocking the air intake on factory vehicles will not starve the engine. As you say though, decent quality brand snorkels such as Safari are sealed. The merits of using snorkels to increase the water wading depths of these vehicles is a whole different kettle of fish... [bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

[Aussie Jeepster]

I don't think parking a buttock over the intake of a big diesel screaming it's head off would be a good idea...

Oh dear, the mind boggles!!!!!!!!

[DiscoJeffster]

What would be the point in fitting a raised air intake if the first time you drive into water thinking you are safe because the air entry level into the engine is at the top of windscreen level but you suddenly come to a stop with a bang because you haven't sealed everything below?
Any decent snorkel kit comes with instructions. And an important instruction is the one that tells you to remember to seal any drain holes in the air box...

https://www.safari4x4.com.au/images/products/land-rover/discovery/3/2006-09-2009-2.7l-diesel/ss385hf-safari-snorkel-land-rover-install.pdf

Maybe a Safari is not a decent snorkel however their instructions do not mention sealing drain holes anywhere. Maybe that’s because a Disco air box doesn’t actually have any to begin with? I’m not sure.

[scarry]

https://www.safari4x4.com.au/images/products/land-rover/discovery/3/2006-09-2009-2.7l-diesel/ss385hf-safari-snorkel-land-rover-install.pdf

Maybe a Safari is not a decent snorkel however their instructions do not mention sealing drain holes anywhere. Maybe that’s because a Disco air box doesn’t actually have any to begin with? I’m not sure.

The D2 has a drain hole in the bottom of the airbox,dont know about the D3/4.

Whether to seal it or not after fitting a snorkel,some say yes,others no.

Mine was sealed with Sikaflex.

[DiscoJeffster]

The D2 has a drain hole in the bottom of the airbox,dont know about the D3/4.

Whether to seal it or not after fitting a snorkel,some say yes,others no.

Mine was sealed with Sikaflex.

I’ll pull mine apart tomorrow and see

[Disco_Rob]

https://www.safari4x4.com.au/images/products/land-rover/discovery/3/2006-09-2009-2.7l-diesel/ss385hf-safari-snorkel-land-rover-install.pdf

Maybe a Safari is not a decent snorkel however their instructions do not mention sealing drain holes anywhere. Maybe that’s because a Disco air box doesn’t actually have any to begin with? I’m not sure.

I can't remember if my D1 did or not, but it does have two rubber grommets that secure it to the inner wheelarch which have to be sealed but my instructions said not forget to seal any drain tubes.

[Disco_Rob]

Hey Disc_Rob
I'm not sure if you missed my point. The standard air intake on the D3(&4?) is NOT sealed. The trunking between the air intake on the side and the air filter box is slotted and is covered with a cloth sock (presumably to act as a bit of a pre filter). Even the elbows have holes in them. The LR RAI just bolts on to the outside of the vehicle. RAI's are not sold as water wading devices, they are designed to pick up cleaner air and to increase air flow into the engin (LR specifically state this). That is why blocking the air intake on factory vehicles will not starve the engine. As you say though, decent quality brand snorkels such as Safari are sealed. The merits of using snorkels to increase the water wading depths of these vehicles is a whole different kettle of fish... [bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

Not so much 'missed the point' more 'never seen an air intake system with so many holes before!'
I know some people fit them to take in cleaner air, but every kit I've seen in GB is designed to be sealed.
Personally, I can't help getting my feet wet at any opportunity.
I've almost fixed the leaks though, so hopefully this year my feet will remain dry when I go wading. It's playing havoc with my carpet... :)

[SBD4]

On a D3/D4, the tube going from the filter box to the quarter panel vent is perforated (perhaps for the very reason of preventing the smothering of the engine by covering the side vent). For this reason the factory RAI is not waterproof as previously mentioned. Other solutions like that from Safari replace the perforated tube to make it waterproof(step 9 in the instructions below). The filter box has one way drain plug which can also be blocked.

The factory RAI can be waterproofed as has been discussed many times here.

[dhula]

I'm guessing it stands for something?
Valve Timing Gets Bad More If Bent???

That's a good one, I like it [thumbsupbig]

Actually stands for the sequence to follow when doing a tune up on the beasty, kinda like the way you remember the planets (My Very Elderly Mother Just Swept Up Nine Pins [woops, Pluto's not a planet anymore - or is it????])

[PerthDisco]

On a D3/D4, the tube going from the filter box to the quarter panel vent is perforated (perhaps for the very reason of preventing the smothering of the engine by covering the side vent).

That would certainly be a Russell Coight moment getting a love bite from the car as you lean back on it.