Ventilation piping gap Puma Defender

[DiscoMick]

Hi folks, just wondering if anyone has a trick for sealing the gap in the piping for the ventilation in a Puma Defender between the passenger's mudguard and the firewall. Mine has a gap big enough to poke my finger through. It appears the piping doesn't meet and there isn't any obvious way of connecting them. Maybe something is missing?
The result is hot engine air gets into the ventilation and the air into the cabin blows warm. With the aircon on it means the aircon is not as cold.
I had my workshop look at it yesterday when doing the 100,000 kms service, and they scratched their heads and went off to try to find an exploded drawing which might show some piece that could fit.
I assume its either a plastic fitting or you just stuff the gap full of foam or wrap insulation tape around it. Does that sound right?
I did joke about wrapping a muffler bandage around it...
Anyway, if anyone has solved this problem I'd love to hear how you fixed it.

[SSmith]

Hi folks, just wondering if anyone has a trick for sealing the gap in the piping for the ventilation in a Puma Defender between the passenger's mudguard and the firewall. Mine has a gap big enough to poke my finger through. It appears the piping doesn't meet and there isn't any obvious way of connecting them. Maybe something is missing?
The result is hot engine air gets into the ventilation and the air into the cabin blows warm. With the aircon on it means the aircon is not as cold.
I had my workshop look at it yesterday when doing the 100,000 kms service, and they scratched their heads and went off to try to find an exploded drawing which might show some piece that could fit.
I assume its either a plastic fitting or you just stuff the gap full of foam or wrap insulation tape around it. Does that sound right?
I did joke about wrapping a muffler bandage around it...
Anyway, if anyone has solved this problem I'd love to hear how you fixed it.

There is supposed to be a token foam seal there, probably aged and fallen out - was pretty useless anyway.

I attached an ally plate to the face of the heater box and another to the inlet and ran some flexi pipe. Total PITA to do but at least it is sealed now.

[martnH]

I used some butyl rubber flashings from bunnings. I think it cost $30
Basically a cheap dynamat, to seal it up.

Seal the top half from above and the bottom half beneath the car.

It works a treat. I tested it by blowing external fresh air in with AC off on highway after the engine temperature bay was up, the temp is the almost the same as ambient temp.

[ninetubes]

looking to do the same, and to try sticking a foam filter under the snow cowl to see if i can keep some dust out.

any photos appreciated

[tact]

Hi folks, just wondering if anyone has a trick for sealing the gap in the piping for the ventilation in a Puma Defender between the passenger's mudguard and the firewall. Mine has a gap big enough to poke my finger through. It appears the piping doesn't meet and there isn't any obvious way of connecting them. Maybe something is missing?
The result is hot engine air gets into the ventilation and the air into the cabin blows warm. With the aircon on it means the aircon is not as cold.
I had my workshop look at it yesterday when doing the 100,000 kms service, and they scratched their heads and went off to try to find an exploded drawing which might show some piece that could fit.
I assume its either a plastic fitting or you just stuff the gap full of foam or wrap insulation tape around it. Does that sound right?
I did joke about wrapping a muffler bandage around it...
Anyway, if anyone has solved this problem I'd love to hear how you fixed it.

I have written about this in other threads before. Seems that the duct and blower motor assembly do not mate up properly. big gap even with near new foam rubber seal in place. Complained to the dealer multiple times and they couldn't figure out why/how to properly fix it - in the end they basically did a bodge job with sealing tape etc.

Would like to see the actual parts outside of the vehicle to see why they cannot be made to mate up properly. But not so interested to start ripping things out of my vehicle. [biggrin]

[martnH]

looking to do the same, and to try sticking a foam filter under the snow cowl to see if i can keep some dust out.

any photos appreciatedThere you go.

I took the air duct apart when installed the roll cage (part of the procedure
Well they are just there hanging against each other. Not even friction fit or anything.

There is no adhesive on the foam. The foam is there just to fill the gap.

"Design" like this makes me pukehttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/852.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/853.jpg

[DiscoMick]

Yes, I can stick my finger through the gap.
Thanks for the information folks. Very helpful.

[SSmith]

I have written about this in other threads before. Seems that the duct and blower motor assembly do not mate up properly. big gap even with near new foam rubber seal in place. Complained to the dealer multiple times and they couldn't figure out why/how to properly fix it - in the end they basically did a bodge job with sealing tape etc.

Would like to see the actual parts outside of the vehicle to see why they cannot be made to mate up properly. But not so interested to start ripping things out of my vehicle. [biggrin]

The problem is you fit the ducting to the wing before fitting the wing to the car. Kinda hard to get the 2 faces to seal up properly when wielding such a large part. **** design!
When I pulled mine apart for repairs, I neglected to refit the ducting to the wing before fitting it to the car :wallbash: did not end well.

Without doing a full custom job, sealing tape is probably the best fix.

[DiscoMick]

Yeah I'm thinking some kind of plastic ducting with sealing tape and maybe cable ties over it.
My mechanic is looking at it today so I'll advise if he comes up with anything.
I have some Car Builders stick-on waterproof floor sound insulation, which is said to be OK on the transmission tunnel, which gets warm, so I suppose I could just cut a strip of that to fit around and then tape and cable tie it. Would that work?

[DiscoMick]

So I pulled out some leftover pieces of Car Builders 4WD sound insulation and set off to see what I could do to seal the gap between the air intake and the ventilation piping.
https://www.aulro.com/mobile-gallery/3f013f2f2650649ee4e882e475accfb1.jpg
First thing I found was the space is very tight down there. Also, I couldn't reach up from underneath, so I could only get down between various pipes.
So, after a lot of poking and skinning of nuckles, I managed to get a wider length twisted down and around underneath. I don't think I fully closed the gap, but most of it is covered. Then I ran another strip across the top. So I guess maybe three-quarters of the gap circle is closed, which can only be an improvement. You can see the top here:
https://www.aulro.com/mobile-gallery/1caa950abd610d40ab11b7246072e6f2.jpg
It looks bodgy, but I hope it will work to stop much of the heat soak warming the ventilation air.
Why couldn't Land Rover do this on the production line to begin with?

[DiscoMick]

I've also decided to fit a second snow cowl to the driver's side to match the one covering the ventilation air intake on the passenger side.
This follows a long and interesting thread about the best way of lowering the temperature under the bonnet.
Some people fit forward facing scoops to ram air in, but others say that actually makes it harder for the radiator. They say the aim is to get high pressure on the front of the radiator and lower pressure behind to suck air through the radiator and cool the coolant, which then cools the engine.
The way to get lower pressure in the engine bay behind the radiator is to vent the hot air out, so lowering the air pressure in the engine bay. Range Rovers have tall vents in the mudguards ahead of the doors.
How to vent more hot air in a Defender? There are vents which can be fitted to the mudguards of Defenders, but that means cutting holes, which I am reluctant to do.
So, I remembered the fake vent in the top of the driver's side mudguard and thought I'd just replace it with another snow cowl, to vent hot air. Excellent idea!
So I will order a right hand cowl to match this one.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/986.jpg

[Tombie]

We have both... at speed nothing vents out there...

I just did it for symmetry

[DiscoMick]

We have both... at speed nothing vents out there...

I just did it for symmetry
Interesting it doesn't vent out, but air does come in the other side to the ventilation ducting.

[Toxic_Avenger]

Hi guys, I'm a bit late to the party, but I had the 'not as cold' aircon, and it turned out that the adjustment of the wire actuator on the heater mixer valve was not closing off completely (roundish white plastic thing in the engine bay, on the firewall near blower). The wire push rod was at full adjustment on the heater control dial in the cab, but not driving home on the actual coolant tap valve. This can be amnually adjusted 'by hand' to see if this is a factor for you. Result- air con is fighting the heater core.
I'm sure that air ingress via the ducting plays a part, but might pay to look at this too.

[ninetubes]

So much dam dust in my car after our last trip across the bight and with a month in the kimberleys coming up i'm going to actually fix it.

Today i spoke to unifilter and ended up ordering a square meter of 12mm filter foam, 45ppi, per their recommendation.

Not sure where it's going yet, but going to start by putting a slab under the snow cowl or just below the wingtop grill. I'm thinking easy access for cleaning as it will be a prefilter. I'll see how it goes and if i need to look at retrofitting something additional at the heater-box end.

Regarding the ducting, I'll seal that up as depicted in the posts above.

if all else fails I'll have more than enough leftover to jam into the AC vents! [bigrolf]

Will post update and photos in the next couple of weeks

[martnH]

Thanks yes keep us updated

It will be even better if you use a filter equivalent to n99 mask. You know for the increassed pm 2.5 and pm10 particular around your puma
(Just joking haha

The air duct gets a bit smelly in my defender...Anybody has a solution?

Cheers

[DiscoMick]

Hi guys, I'm a bit late to the party, but I had the 'not as cold' aircon, and it turned out that the adjustment of the wire actuator on the heater mixer valve was not closing off completely (roundish white plastic thing in the engine bay, on the firewall near blower). The wire push rod was at full adjustment on the heater control dial in the cab, but not driving home on the actual coolant tap valve. This can be amnually adjusted 'by hand' to see if this is a factor for you. Result- air con is fighting the heater core.
I'm sure that air ingress via the ducting plays a part, but might pay to look at this too.
Thanks. That's very interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Will have to check.

[austastar]

The air duct gets a bit smelly in my defender...Anybody has a solution?

Cheers

Hi,
Put your hand over the duct and feel for the rubber duck beak valve.
Give it a squeeze to drain the leaves/dust/gunge out.
You could probably flush it with hot water as well.

Cheers

[Mark130]

Hello All,
I've got my lower dash (air duct) out at present in my TD5, and should be ready to look at it shortly. My trucks had bad mould through it a couple of times, and I guess there could be anything growing in that air duct. I don't really want to pull it all apart as foam inside feels ok.
I'm thinking I might soak it in pine o clean and water, rinse and dry it out in the Brissie sun.
Any better ideas/ suggestions?
Cheers
Mark

[ninetubes]

Got to sorting mine out on the weekend



12mm filter foam, 45ppi, from unitfilter: ~$50/m2
Self adhesive flashing tape from bummings hardware: $12


Used the wingtop intake grille as a template to cut a foam filter and fitted between the duct and the wingtop. I just squashed it between the two, left the grille out and put the cowl back on. Then sealed ducting per previous posts (thanks all) with the flashing tape.
https://www.aulro.com/mobile-gallery/837d55631e7f7295b2c1d946b1bcad9b.jpg. https://www.aulro.com/mobile-gallery/50af715d595fc94e041bdbe6cf1b4cba.jpg. https://www.aulro.com/mobile-gallery/4fdbbebbeb415ec73d25b19def022080.jpg

i have not oiled the filter yet, i'll see if it does much dry. Does not appear to be impeding the airflow.

[DiscoMick]

I have one of those Uni filters that fits over the head of the snorkel stored away for future use. I wonder if it would work if I just pulled it over the head of the snow cowl?

[ninetubes]

I have one of those Uni filters that fits over the head of the snorkel stored away for future use. I wonder if it would work if I just pulled it over the head of the snow cowl?

Or stuff it underneath the cowl, on top of the grille ?

[DiscoMick]

Or stuff it underneath the cowl, on top of the grille ?
Yes, I could just cut the material to size.
BTW I removed my grille as it seemed redundant and the cowl fitted better without it.

Incidentally, back to the OP and it appears that my bodgy job of sticking foam insulation around the gap appears to have worked, as the air through the ventilation is certainly cooler, and the air con isn't struggling as much. I had to do two long runs at the weekend so I was monitoring to see what happened as the engine bay heated up, but it seems OK.
I still think I haven't completely closed the gap, so I'm going to have another fiddle, if I can get my fingers around the back of the piping at the gap.
Next week, after I get paid, I'm going to order the second snow cowl. They're only about $40-50 so it seems like a good idea to assist with venting hot air on the driver's side. It can't make it worse, plus it will make the vehicle look balanced with one on each side, as Tombie said.

[Tote]

I've got a snorkel sock that fits over the snorkel on my intake, it makes a significant difference to the amount of dust that comes in. The snorkel also stops the hot air being sucked into the heater duct by giving some positive pressure at speed.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/02/332.jpg



Regards,

Tote

[martnH]

Yes, I could just cut the material to size.
BTW I removed my grille as it seemed redundant and the cowl fitted better without it.

Incidentally, back to the OP and it appears that my bodgy job of sticking foam insulation around the gap appears to have worked, as the air through the ventilation is certainly cooler, and the air con isn't struggling as much. I had to do two long runs at the weekend so I was monitoring to see what happened as the engine bay heated up, but it seems OK.
I still think I haven't completely closed the gap, so I'm going to have another fiddle, if I can get my fingers around the back of the piping at the gap.
Next week, after I get paid, I'm going to order the second snow cowl. They're only about $40-50 so it seems like a good idea to assist with venting hot air on the driver's side. It can't make it worse, plus it will make the vehicle look balanced with one on each side, as Tombie said.Borrow someone's kids or wife to do it...
You will need small soft hands....

[martnH]

I've got a snorkel sock that fits over the snorkel on my intake, it makes a significant difference to the amount of dust that comes in. The snorkel also stops the hot air being sucked into the heater duct by giving some positive pressure at speed.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/02/332.jpg



Regards,

ToteHmnnnnnn. Thanks for sharing

I may do something similar but this will surely destroy the aerodynamics and worse the fuel economy....

Cheers

[Tombie]

Did you just write Aerodynamics in a Defender thread? [emoji48]🤪[emoji41]

[Tote]

Hmnnnnnn. Thanks for sharing

I may do something similar but this will surely destroy the aerodynamics and worse the fuel economy....

Cheers

It is pretty funny watching from a cafe across the street the bloke trying to figure out what the two snorkels feed, looking under the guard and walking around the other side of the vehicle to check out if there's anything he can see under that guard. Has happened a couple of times now.....

Regards,
Tote

[rick130]

Did you just write Aerodynamics in a Defender thread? [emoji48]🤪[emoji41]I'm thinking Martin said that tongue in cheek.

I hope! [emoji23]

[Tote]

Tested the sock on the snorkel over the weekend, worked at treat, the only dust on the dash was from when we had the windows down which is a huge improvement. The filter collected plenty though.

137516

Regards,
Tote

[ninetubes]

I taped up the gap on the weekend. $9 aluminium backed butyl self adhesive tape from bunnings and about 15 minutes to clean and apply it.

[DiscoMick]

I had another go at mine last week and got more of it covered. Not much space for big hands.
However, I've also decided the aircon needs re-gassing, which is probably to be expected after 104,000 kms in nine years, I suppose.

[ninetubes]

I had another go at mine last week and got more of it covered. Not much space for big hands.
However, I've also decided the aircon needs re-gassing, which is probably to be expected after 104,000 kms in nine years, I suppose.

My wife has little hands. With the promise of a strong G&T I convinced her to reach up through the guard from underneath whist i reached down over the top of it. The tape wanted to stick to anything it got close to so it was really helpful having a second set of hands. Got a full lap around it in one strip, then an additional strip at the bottom between the firewall and the first layer to ensure it stays in place.

[DiscoMick]

My wife has little hands. With the promise of a strong G&T I convinced her to reach up through the guard from underneath whist i reached down over the top of it. The tape wanted to stick to anything it got close to so it was really helpful having a second set of hands. Got a full lap around it in one strip, then an additional strip at the bottom between the firewall and the first layer to ensure it stays in place.
My wife doesn't like G and T, so I might have to think up another bribe. Chocolate might do it.

[davidgate]

I taped up the gap on the weekend. $9 aluminium backed butyl self adhesive tape from bunnings and about 15 minutes to clean and apply it.

Got any pics?

Dave G

[ninetubes]

Got any pics?

Dave G

Not the greatest, but here you go:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/341.jpg

[davidgate]

Quick fix for closing the gap. Rubber door stop from Bunnings. Gap fully closed but don't know how long it will last.[bighmmm]

Dave G

[DiscoMick]

Looks good, but our gap went much further around than that.

[ninetubes]

this is my second crack at filtering the cabin air, feel like i might have nailed it this time. Previous one struggled for airflow and was not very durable.

I made a blanking plate for the wingtop vent using the side of a plastic crate ~3mm thick. Would have been easier if i still had the old vent as a template.

Bought a unifilter "droopie" size large (cue large droopie jokes...). they are a pre-filter sock that fits inside your snorkel. Washed out the filter oil and soaked in baby oil instead, as it smells better.

Cut a suitable sized hold in my blanking plate, dropped in the filter and re-fitted the snow cowl.

Good airflow, as for dust proofing, i'll find out how that goes over the next month!
140913 140914 140915 140916

[ninetubes]

Pleased to report back that with positive cabin pressure by sucking the AC through this filter has kept the truck unbelievably clean and dust free in extremely heavy dust (gibb river road, kalumbaru, munja track etc) for over 5000km.
Got about a week out of the filter before needing to clean and re-oil. Baby oil seamed to dry out a bit fast in the heat. So may experiment with so other options. Going to try unifilter oil for the GCR and see if it’s overly smelly.

[martnH]

I am going to try your mod...
Thanks for sharing

[ninetubes]

Pleased to report back that with positive cabin pressure by sucking the AC through this filter has kept the truck unbelievably clean and dust free in extremely heavy dust (gibb river road, kalumbaru, munja track etc) for over 5000km.
Got about a week out of the filter before needing to clean and re-oil. Baby oil seamed to dry out a bit fast in the heat. So may experiment with so other options. Going to try unifilter oil for the GCR and see if it’s overly smelly.

I put the unifilter oiled one in without telling my wife. We drove Alice to Perth (~50% unsealed) in 4 days. There was no perceivable smell from it, and she didn't notice it even when I told her what i'd done. Seemed stickier than baby oil, but conditions were a lot cooler. Either way, i figure it's specifically designed for this so should be better, and I only need to carry one type for both the engine and cabin pre-filters.

between this, the piping gap and doubling up the back door seal... I own a dust proof defender!

[DFender]

Just digging this one up to say thanks for the lead on the intake gap.

Mine is definitely sucking in soot/engine bay dust/something in there and is very noticeable. The missus wasn't happy after a 6 hour round trip over the weekend. Will give this a crack and report back.