Oil In Booster - DIY advice

[Ralph1Malph]

Hi All,
My 06 HSE has had the recall done, but has oil in the booster again. A significant amount actually, gurgles when brakes applied and vacuum is disrupted (hard pedal) if the car is not fairly level.
I've trawled a few forums and it's been suggested that, whilst not a permanent fix, temporary relief can be gained by draining the accumulated oil from the booster.
This sounds to me like an absolutely reasonable course of action but as usual, I can't find any threads or info on a tried and true method of doing this.
Has anyone done this or can offer some advice?

Cheers
Ralph

[PhilipA]

I have done it on an RRC where the master cylinder failed and filled the booster.

All you need is a big syringe from the chemist, and a bit of rubber hose that fits over the cone on the syringe.

Loosen or remove the master cylinder enough to get the rubber hose in the hole and suck out the fluid.
Regards Philip A

[RANDLOVER]

Actually I think you just have to pull one of the pipes out of the booster casing, to be able to insert the tube of the syringe for syphoning. If you can keep the oil level low enough in the casing it will stop it contaminating the master cylinder, you will however have to replace the booster as the rubber diaphragm will have been contaminated, and replace the re-call pipes, which are the cause of this fault.

[justinc]

Ive had to suck out oil in them before using the vac pipe port and a small diameter rubber pipe. And I've seen this on a d3 where the recall hoses have already been replaced. ..

Jc

[Ralph1Malph]

Ive had to suck out oil in them before using the vac pipe port and a small diameter rubber pipe. And I've seen this on a d3 where the recall hoses have already been replaced. ..Jc
So I'm not alone then?Why does that not surprise me! [tonguewink]

Cheers
Ralph

[jonesfam]

If it was a recall safety notice couldn't you take it to a dealer & say
"Fix the Bloody thing!"?

[justinc]

I did. And because it was already performed they weren't interested. The fact that there was oil in the booster again went straight over their heads

[Ralph1Malph]

Hi again,
This repair is getting close to the top of my list!
I read on another related thread that someone (can't remember who) suggested that a similar year V8 Range Rover booster was an option?
Reason being that because it was a V8 (I think) it was larger hence greater vacuum?

Anyhoo, if I'm gunna purchase a booster and fix this, I would consider this option.

But where is that thread? I must be a nong coz all the key word searches I've used have drawn a blank.

Cheers
Ralph

[Ralph1Malph]

Okies,
About to purchase one of these beasties:
Brake Servo Booster 05-09 3.6 TDV8 4.2 SC (TRW) SJJ500080 Island 4x4 - Specialists in Land Rover and Range Rover Parts and accessories for all models. UK and worldwide mail order. (http://www.island-4x4.co.uk/brake-servo-booster-0509-tdv8-sjj500080-p-36062.html)

A chap on a British sister forum has shown me his 'how to' and it seems a really sensible option!

But ...

Should I also replace the master cylinder? In theory, whilst connected and adjacent, they are isolated from one another.
The seals on the MC do wear but if there is no obvious bypass contamination (fluid looks clean and tasty) is it necessary?
I know I should replace the vac pump as well, but gotta stretch the funding line.......

Ps, I'll do the recall valve and pipes as well whilst I'm at it.

Cheers
Ralph

[Ralph1Malph]

Okies,
I have received my goodies from Island 4x4, in Kent I believe although I have no idea where that is! https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/365.jpg

SC RR vacuum chamber and new D3 master cylinder.

So I've searched and not found a how to guide or thread. I could google it and will, but thought I'd throw it open here as well.
I seem to have terrible luck searching on this forum and many other forums....I guess it's me lol.

Cheers
Ralph

[loanrangie]

Kent is pretty much south east from London on the coast, replacement will involve getting under the dash and removing the bolt that holds the booster rod to the brake pedal. Then it should all be done from the engine bay side, doesn't look too hard but will require bleeding the brakes after undoing all the pipes in the removal/replacement.

[Ralph1Malph]

Kent is pretty much south east from London on the coast, replacement will involve getting under the dash and removing the bolt that holds the booster rod to the brake pedal. Then it should all be done from the engine bay side, doesn't look too hard but will require bleeding the brakes after undoing all the pipes in the removal/replacement.

Yep, I thought as much. Similar to any old Holden lol.
I do have an IID BT so bleeding no probs!

I also suspect that it will be 99% straightforward, except for the 1% LR quirk.

A job for the weekend.

Cheers
RJ

[loanrangie]

Yeah that 1% will take up the whole arvo.

[Grappler]

I replaced my valve, tubing and servo unit a few ears ago to solve oil in the booster. The oil had destroyed the rubber diaphram in the booster. The recall had been done ealier according to the dealer
While I was waiting for reasonably priced parts from UK I set up an oil catchcan in the vacuum line to trap the oil before it got to the booster. After the repair i left the catcher in place to prove the new valve was good
After a while I removed the catcher and the repair still good after a few years. Every now and then I check for oil in the lines with a cotton bud

[Ralph1Malph]

I replaced my valve, tubing and servo unit a few ears ago to solve oil in the booster. The oil had destroyed the rubber diaphram in the booster. The recall had been done ealier according to the dealer
While I was waiting for reasonably priced parts from UK I set up an oil catchcan in the vacuum line to trap the oil before it got to the booster. After the repair i left the catcher in place to prove the new valve was good
After a while I removed the catcher and the repair still good after a few years. Every now and then I check for oil in the lines with a cotton bud

This is my Plan to!
Could you let me know where you fitted the catch can and what brand/one you used?
If the friendship isn't pushed, maybe a pic?

My plan is to install one in the vacuum line between the booster and the one way valve fitted by the mod.
As I have a dual battery, room is tight.

Cheers
Ralph (RJ)

[Grappler]

Im away from home home an the can is on a self in the shed

It is like this Billet Aluminum Car Racing Engine Oil Catch Tank Can Reservoir Black Square 0.6L | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Billet-Aluminum-Car-Racing-Engine-Oil-Catch-Tank-Can-Reservoir-Black-Square-0-6L/272498506552?hash=item3f722d3b38:g:W2AAAOSwImRYYMe T)

Preserve the existing tubes and extend with non collapsible tubing to install the can . I put mine in the quick disconnect closest to the servo with similar fittings from wrecker. Make sure the system holds vacuum

[Ralph1Malph]

Alrighty,
I have finished this job. I didn't do pics, but will attempt to explain for those considering it with google free to air non copyrighted images.

Firstly, I'd say as far as jobs go, it's pretty straightforward, but fiddly and time consuming. Not to mention the abuse my delicate office hands suffered!

Firstly, the downloaded manual I used was as good a loo paper. Basically it said:
Remove lower dash access panels, brake buffer plate and clevis pin;
Remove second battery tray, and brake lines to master cylinder;
Unbolt and remove master cylinder and vacuum chamber.
Reverse to re-install.

I read them and threw them away.

Here's what y'all actually have to do!

1. Remove lower dash closing panel.
137995
2. Remove the instrument panel access panel
137996
3. Remove the brake buffer plate and booster push rod clevis pin.
137997
There is a more straight forward and easier access however and this is to remove the dash end assembly. Two clips at the bottom. Yank and it hinges up and out. Unplug the light switch.
137998
4. Remove second battery if fitted.
5. I have a traxide dual battery set up so I had to remove all those bits.
I only needed to disconnect the two main power pole connectors and everything else stayed connected.Just pry away the double sided tape and lift the bits out of the way.

6. Remove auxiliary battery compartment side wall. 4 clips and some jiggling, especially if the traxide is mounted there.
137999
7. Remove the auxiliary battery tray
138000
8. I also at this time realised that I'd have to remove the other half of the battery tray. This is the half under the ABS modulator.
I unbolted the tray, then the ABS modulator, leaving the brake lines attached and lifted the ABS enough to slide/jiggle/remove the tray.

9. Unscrew and remove the two brake lines from both the master cylinder and modulator. Brake fluid is released so I stuffed absorbent materiel all around.
Tip. Three of these beasties are 11mm. Who in the Lords name uses 11mm! Had to dig way under my pile of 10mm and 12mm to find one.

10. Unbolt and remove the master cylinder. Can take a bit of jiggling due to the o'ring and time.

11. Unbolt and remove the vacuum chamber. Again, a bit of jiggling and maneuvering but fairly straight forward. Remember to disconnect the mod QD if you've had the recall mod.

12. Re-assemble in reverse.

As I replaced both the chamber and master cylinder I had to remove the fluid reservoir. It's a tightly fitted sausage of a thing but careful force and it pops off.

I then refilled with fluid at hand which was Dot 5.1 but if necessary I'll flush later.
I did a bleed and flush of old fluid, however I didn't/don't have the ABS bleed on my IID BT so didn't do that.

What I didn't mention is that I replaced the D3 vacuum chamber with a chamber from a SC RRS, supposedly more vacuum but outwardly it's the exact same dimensions.

Pretty happy with it all except skinned knuckles.

A combination of new M/C and new fatter vacuum and wow...it stops on a dime! Impressively so!

PS. I didn't replace the recall Mod but flushed what I could access. Similarly, I haven't time nor money to replace the actual cause, being the oil pump.
I will fit a catch can in the next few days to mitigate this.

Anyhoo, cheers and beers.
Ralph

[Ralph1Malph]

Okies,
I'd like to remove all of the 'modded' vacuum lines and clean or replace.
Trouble, I'm buggered if I can get to or know where to reach to disconnect the lower connectors, which I hope are QD type connections.
Any advice?

Cheers
Ralph

[Grappler]

Here is a link to another forum, showing the full procedure Including disconnecting the tubes from the valve on the vacuum pump
https://disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/11257/Brake%20Booster%20recall%20extn.pdf

[Grappler]

138067

This is a postmortem pic of my booster after I removed it because of oil contamination

[Ralph1Malph]

138067

This is a postmortem pic of my booster after I removed it because of oil contamination

I didn't pull mine apart, but it left a slick on the bricks!

Unbelievable.

138083

[trout1105]

I didn't pull mine apart, but it left a slick on the bricks!

Unbelievable.

138083

that looks like a typical LR parking spot [bigwhistle]

[Ralph1Malph]

Alrighty then,
I have replaced the modified vacuum hoses and they were, well, dripping with oil.
However I did this in the field so to speak(Levuka 4x4 park) so didn't replace the valve and spring at the pump end - coz I has too fat fingers and didn't want to risk a 'sproing' into the undergrowth.

Since returning, I have fitted an oil/air separator (catch can) to assess the magnitude of oil migration now everything is new.

I am aghast! it's only been 4 days since I fitted the catch can and already there is a noticeable film of oil in it!

I am going to have to remove and clean the modded vacuum pipes as well as replace the valve and spring.
I'll also start investigating what scale of PITA replacing the vac pump is, as that's the only real solution.

Cheers
Ralph

[BigJon]

I did. And because it was already performed they weren't interested. The fact that there was oil in the booster again went straight over their heads

Had a similar response from BMW recently regarding an X5 with a failed booster. Recall for oil in line had been done with no booster replacement. I argued that booster failure was probably because of oil ingress, known fault, subject to recall, etc. Their response was bring us the car and pay for us to check it ($600) and IF we find oil we will put in a request to BMW. IF they agree we will replace the booster. If not, you will have to pay. Booster retail about 2 grand, plus the $600, plus the fitting cost. I got a TRW booster out of Germany and fitted it all for under $600.

[justinc]

Had a similar response from BMW recently regarding an X5 with a failed booster. Recall for oil in line had been done with no booster replacement. I argued that booster failure was probably because of oil ingress, known fault, subject to recall, etc. Their response was bring us the car and pay for us to check it ($600) and IF we find oil we will put in a request to BMW. IF they agree we will replace the booster. If not, you will have to pay. Booster retail about 2 grand, plus the $600, plus the fitting cost. I got a TRW booster out of Germany and fitted it all for under $600.

Yup. With attitudes like that we should be shunning these manufacturers..

[RANDLOVER]

Has anyone used any other one-way/non-return/check valve in the vac line as mine needs it's 3rd or 4th check valve? I wonder if anything from a Puma,TD5, Tdi, etc engine would fit?

[loanrangie]

Looks like i'm up for this gem of a job as just noticed 2 days ago that the brake pedal goes hard and is barely pulling up the car [bigsad], recall was done in 2010.

[shanegtr]

Heres my video series for referenece

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLI-65_gn4P6WZcIMpGgXQ63o1RNO-fwUU