D4 Long Range Tank

[rhinosm]

Its been a while since I've seen any discussion on LR tanks.
The one item I need to add to my vehicle for this years desert adventures is larger fuel capacity.
Possible some extra under body protection from Ben.
I'm current considering Brown Davis 110L or Long Ranger 104L, both from ARB.
I've read a lot of previous threads about pro's & con's of gravity & pump etc.
Any more thoughts or has it been thrashed to death?

[Tombie]

My 2 bobs worth...

Unless the BD quality has grown in leaps and bounds in the last 10 years I’d go the Long Ranger.

As for transfer pump failure. 6 years of use at least every week and not a problem...

[DiscoClax]

There is a relevant thread in the RRS L320 section, too...

[~Rich~]

My Brown Davis tank has been without issue for 6 years. Tough, no leaks, pump hasn’t missed a beat.
Mine is for sale as I’m selling the D3. Now about 104ltr capacity.

[AnD3rew]

I have the LongRanger, in the end the reason I did was that I like knowing how much fuel I have so pumping it from one to the other means you know what you have and what you have used. The Brown Davis just says full until the aux is empty as I understand it. The aux gauge on the Long Ranger is not very accurate but you get used to it and you know what you have pumped so you have a pretty good idea all the time what you have.

i did have a pump failure early on under warranty and since it has been replaced I have had 7years worth of reliability but I do carry a simple hand pump and tubing just in case if I am remote.

[AnD3rew]

You should also be aware that the tank makes a big difference to the handling of the car, you get used to it but it definitely doesn’t drive like it used to when the tank is full. Much more whale like.

[Blue C]

I agree with Tombie and Andrew. I've also got the Long Ranger Automotive tank (almost 4yrs with the D4 and I had the same system on my D3 for 4 yrs before that too). No pump or other issues on either vehicle. It works well and Andrew's point re getting used to the amount transferred is right. Very happy to recommend it. David

[LM2016]

Hi Rhinosm and all Members,,
Had a BD 110ltr for over a year now with no problems. I was in Melbourne, on route, so had them fit it for me.
110 Ltrs probably nearer 95 to 100 usable I've found. Tough tank and pump hasn't let me down. Good idea to carry small pump/ syphon hose in case of failure, as mentioned. The gauge is very average in level reading but like they say you get used to the pumping across. The location of the gauge in the cockpit is limited, trick being wiring and position. Mines behind the right side wipers arm lever, the level lights hidden from direct eye contact.( quite bright lights)
Browns told me to take the main tank down to about 3/4ish and start to transfer, you get two transfers that way. Or however you wish to do it. Mine makes a high squeal sound when the L/R tanks is empty, you think its the radio (am) until you snap out of it.
Haven't had many inputs to discussions as yet, am still learning to.
I have been reading the forum for a couple of years now and have been enlightened many times.
Thanks AULRO
Cheers from WA
Pete.B.

[transtar]

For better weight distribution it is worth considering a bladder made to measure to fit in well behind front seats of a D4. Have a look at Fleximake.com.au. I have a 120litre unit and it works well weight wise with just about 50/50 distribution between front and rear axle loadings. Cost was good too. Only $240 for 120 litre unit made to measure with hoses and fittings but no pump or guage.













Hi Rhinosm and all Members,,
Had a BD 110ltr for over a year now with no problems. I was in Melbourne, on route, so had them fit it for me.
110 Ltrs probably nearer 95 to 100 usable I've found. Tough tank and pump hasn't let me down. Good idea to carry small pump/ syphon hose in case of failure, as mentioned. The gauge is very average in level reading but like they say you get used to the pumping across. The location of the gauge in the cockpit is limited, trick being wiring and position. Mines behind the right side wipers arm lever, the level lights hidden from direct eye contact.( quite bright lights)
Browns told me to take the main tank down to about 3/4ish and start to transfer, you get two transfers that way. Or however you wish to do it. Mine makes a high squeal sound when the L/R tanks is empty, you think its the radio (am) until you snap out of it.
Haven't had many inputs to discussions as yet, am still learning to.
I have been reading the forum for a couple of years now and have been enlightened many times.
Thanks AULRO
Cheers from WA
Pete.B.

[Tombie]

For better weight distribution it is worth considering a bladder made to measure to fit in well behind front seats of a D4. Have a look at Fleximake.com.au. I have a 120litre unit and it works well weight wise with just about 50/50 distribution between front and rear axle loadings. Cost was good too. Only $240 for 120 litre unit made to measure with hoses and fittings but no pump or guage.

How is it restrained?

[DiscoJeffster]

How is it restrained?

It uses the force. Refer to Luke S. for more details.

[Bytemrk]

I'm another happy Long ranger owner (no pump issues). Very happy with it..

[~Rich~]

Well I'm actually surprised today, removing my Brown Davis Tank I drained as much fuel as I could with the transfer pump.
Got underneath and had some containers to drain the remainder and much to my surprise only approx 400ml came out!

[AnD3rew]

Hi Rhinosm and all Members,,
Had a BD 110ltr for over a year now with no problems. I was in Melbourne, on route, so had them fit it for me.
110 Ltrs probably nearer 95 to 100 usable I've found. Tough tank and pump hasn't let me down. Good idea to carry small pump/ syphon hose in case of failure, as mentioned. The gauge is very average in level reading but like they say you get used to the pumping across. The location of the gauge in the cockpit is limited, trick being wiring and position. Mines behind the right side wipers arm lever, the level lights hidden from direct eye contact.( quite bright lights)
Browns told me to take the main tank down to about 3/4ish and start to transfer, you get two transfers that way. Or however you wish to do it. Mine makes a high squeal sound when the L/R tanks is empty, you think its the radio (am) until you snap out of it.
Haven't had many inputs to discussions as yet, am still learning to.
I have been reading the forum for a couple of years now and have been enlightened many times.
Thanks AULRO
Cheers from WA
Pete.B.


That sounds more more like the Long Ranger than the Brown Davis.

[AnD3rew]

For better weight distribution it is worth considering a bladder made to measure to fit in well behind front seats of a D4. Have a look at Fleximake.com.au. I have a 120litre unit and it works well weight wise with just about 50/50 distribution between front and rear axle loadings. Cost was good too. Only $240 for 120 litre unit made to measure with hoses and fittings but no pump or guage.

Thats a good weight option if only 1-2 traveling but for those of us with families it isn’t an option. I also am not comfortable with the idea of fuel in the cabin although I know many do this and swear by it it just doesn’t sit right with me.

[Tombie]

Thats a good weight option if only 1-2 traveling but for those of us with families it isn’t an option. I also am not comfortable with the idea of fuel in the cabin although I know many do this and swear by it it just doesn’t sit right with me.

As I have asked. How does one restrain the 120+kg?

That’s my largest concern..

[Bytemrk]

That sounds more more like the Long Ranger than the Brown Davis.

They are definitely both really good tanks.

In my case, the Long Ranger was installed by the previous owner - and I've been enjoying the benefits ever since [biggrin]. Brown Davis make good gear, but I've never owned one.

[jwb]

As I have asked. How does one restrain the 120+kg?

That’s my largest concern..

Similar way you restrain a 120kg human? Belts and anchor points.

Well tested in aviation and marine operations.

[Tombie]

Similar way you restrain a 120kg human? Belts and anchor points.

Well tested in aviation and marine operations.

I understand that, I have a previous life in both fields [emoji6]

I’m more concerned how you anchor a flexible bladder on the floor of a D4.

There are very few points to pick up and the bladders I have seen have very little to support them as you describe requiring lashing to decks etc.

Having a good look in the floor of my D4. There is insufficient suitably rated lashing points to prevent a 120kg missile taking off.

[l00kin4]

Thats a good weight option if only 1-2 traveling but for those of us with families it isn’t an option. I also am not comfortable with the idea of fuel in the cabin although I know many do this and swear by it it just doesn’t sit right with me.

I am in the same boat as Andrew needing the second row seats and of much the same mind re fuel in the cabin. Weighing that up against (effectively permanently) installing an aux tank and then RWC, I had considered something like this in cargo area behind second row seats:
BOAB Poly Diesel Fuel Tank 50 Litre Ute Tray or Wagon Floor Mounting FTP50T | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BOAB-Poly-Diesel-Fuel-Tank-50-Litre-Ute-Tray-or-Wagon-Floor-Mounting-FTP50T/162553071148?hash=item25d8eb062c:g:DfcAAOSwrfVZQN5 D)

135535

Could secure to tie downs and probably child seat anchor points on back of seats...
Admittedly that only gives me an extra 50l but that is most likely enough for most trips we might do. And I can take it out when I don’t need it around town.

Interested in people’s opinions...

David

[Tombie]

That I can see being a useful and safe option.
Easily secured, non-intrusive to passenger area...

[Graeme]

I had considered something like this in cargo area behind second row seats:

135535
Interested in people’s opinions...
For occasional use, 3 jerry-cans, filled outside the vehicle, strapped to the back of the cargo barrier.

[Chops]

Pretty sure mines the BD with no pump involved. Can't remember how much it holds exactly, but being gravity fed means no pump to worry about of course.
So one of my original questions when trying to work out which brand to get was the pump issue, "do I want potential problems out in the middle of nowhere, etc etc etc,,, remembering to transfer, how much you transfer,, yada yada yada". Yeah I know, all hypothetical of course, and also, there's always some sort of fix.
I had the choice taken away from me at the time of fitment due to where we got it fitted, so I ended up with the BD.

So, my only issues are,, No gauge to see how much is in the aux tank, (at a glance) and no way of separating the two if I should stake/damage one of the tanks. ( there always seems to flaws in each scenario [bighmmm]). The only other issue I have seems to be at filling time. Not sure why, but it takes forever to fill due to fluid coming out of the breather. Don't know if this is just my tank, or the tank set-up full stop. Keen to hear what issue anyone else may have with this, and if there is a fix (??).
So, a couple of runs with both tanks full, to see an approximation of klms covered between tanks gives one a general idea of time/distance, although not perfect as I didn't really do this when I first bought the car with its original tank,,, was a bit eager to just drive it [bigwhistle].

Ultimately, there's no problems, other than the gauge. I "doubt" I'll drive it rough enough to damage the tank,,,, but then thats why they call them accidents,, one just never "knows".
I hope to remove it all and fit a gauge to the aux at some point in the future, and at the same time, place a tap of some description between the two,, but we'll see.
But now I have to do my numbers all over again for the right knowledge when towing.

[kero]

Pretty sure mines the BD with no pump involved. Can't remember how much it holds exactly, but being gravity fed means no pump to worry about of course.
So one of my original questions when trying to work out which brand to get was the pump issue, "do I want potential problems out in the middle of nowhere, etc etc etc,,, remembering to transfer, how much you transfer,, yada yada yada". Yeah I know, all hypothetical of course, and also, there's always some sort of fix.
I had the choice taken away from me at the time of fitment due to where we got it fitted, so I ended up with the BD.

So, my only issues are,, No gauge to see how much is in the aux tank, (at a glance) and no way of separating the two if I should stake/damage one of the tanks. ( there always seems to flaws in each scenario [bighmmm]). The only other issue I have seems to be at filling time. Not sure why, but it takes forever to fill due to fluid coming out of the breather. Don't know if this is just my tank, or the tank set-up full stop. Keen to hear what issue anyone else may have with this, and if there is a fix (??).
So, a couple of runs with both tanks full, to see an approximation of klms covered between tanks gives one a general idea of time/distance, although not perfect as I didn't really do this when I first bought the car with its original tank,,, was a bit eager to just drive it [bigwhistle].

Ultimately, there's no problems, other than the gauge. I "doubt" I'll drive it rough enough to damage the tank,,,, but then thats why they call them accidents,, one just never "knows".
I hope to remove it all and fit a gauge to the aux at some point in the future, and at the same time, place a tap of some description between the two,, but we'll see.
But now I have to do my numbers all over again for the right knowledge when towing.

I have the 104 ltr tank with the transfer pump which pumps 2 ltrs per minute I run the pump at 10 minute intervals so I roughy how much is left in the tank. And the gauge is above the the LH sig.lighter
Kero

[rocket rod]

The only other consideration in my mind is the size of the tank. Anything above 100 odd litres will hang lower than the spare tyre and will be prone to damage. I've got an Outback Accessories 92l tank and it makes the departure angle a little better. It's gravity feed and some don't like that. All up I've got 175l and that's good for 1500km on road.

[transtar]

In reply to Tombie's query re securing bladder. The bladder has 3 ratchet tie downs which loop through buckles secured under front and rear seat mounts and pass thru vinyl sleeves which are moulded in to bladder. Very secure and never moves and is easy to remove when not needed. They also make one to fit in well if third row seats are removed but this would throw more weight to rear.







I understand that, I have a previous life in both fields [emoji6]

I’m more concerned how you anchor a flexible bladder on the floor of a D4.

There are very few points to pick up and the bladders I have seen have very little to support them as you describe requiring lashing to decks etc.

Having a good look in the floor of my D4. There is insufficient suitably rated lashing points to prevent a 120kg missile taking off.

[whitedisco]

Hi all
I have a D3 but i think the D4 is the same. Has anyone explored the possibility of using the volume on the RH side of the car which mirrors the left hand air tank and air compressor?

I have made some back of the envelope calculations and it seems that about 30 litres would be easy and quite a bit more with a more complex shape.

That is a lot less fuel than the others but just pushing the van towing range out to a very safe 500k would be useful for me. Weight is in the right place too. If it could be plumbed in so that it just appears like you have a slightly larger main tank that would be good.

Probably too expensive for the gain made, anyway just a thought.

Peter

[Maharba]

I am in the same boat as Andrew needing the second row seats and of much the same mind re fuel in the cabin. Weighing that up against (effectively permanently) installing an aux tank and then RWC, I had considered something like this in cargo area behind second row seats:
BOAB Poly Diesel Fuel Tank 50 Litre Ute Tray or Wagon Floor Mounting FTP50T | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BOAB-Poly-Diesel-Fuel-Tank-50-Litre-Ute-Tray-or-Wagon-Floor-Mounting-FTP50T/162553071148?hash=item25d8eb062c:g:DfcAAOSwrfVZQN5 D)

135535

Could secure to tie downs and probably child seat anchor points on back of seats...
Admittedly that only gives me an extra 50l but that is most likely enough for most trips we might do. And I can take it out when I don’t need it around town.

Interested in people’s opinions...

David




If you have a 5 seated there is a large void in behind the rear seat under the floor which would be perfect for it. Although I do intend to use mine for a water bladder.

[cjc_td5]

I am in the same boat as Andrew needing the second row seats and of much the same mind re fuel in the cabin. Weighing that up against (effectively permanently) installing an aux tank and then RWC, I had considered something like this in cargo area behind second row seats:
BOAB Poly Diesel Fuel Tank 50 Litre Ute Tray or Wagon Floor Mounting FTP50T | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BOAB-Poly-Diesel-Fuel-Tank-50-Litre-Ute-Tray-or-Wagon-Floor-Mounting-FTP50T/162553071148?hash=item25d8eb062c:g:DfcAAOSwrfVZQN5 D)

135535

Could secure to tie downs and probably child seat anchor points on back of seats...
Admittedly that only gives me an extra 50l but that is most likely enough for most trips we might do. And I can take it out when I don’t need it around town.

Interested in people’s opinions...

David
Hi David. I have considered something like this also. There are also a huge variety of boat plastic fuel tanks available in any manner of shapes and capacities (up to 120l).
Chris.

[garryc]

My 2 bobs worth...

Unless the BD quality has grown in leaps and bounds in the last 10 years I’d go the Long Ranger.

As for transfer pump failure. 6 years of use at least every week and not a problem...

On my D3 I had a Long Ranger, no problems in 8 years. I decided on BD for my D4. The fitting for the breather tube on the tank was too small and the drain plug was on the bottom of the tank hanging down and not on the front vertical part of the tank as in the installation photos. However the most worrying problem was that the rubber bend they supplied for the tank was labelled "Water Only". A search on the brand of the bend showed that it should have been "Fuel Only". I emailed BD and suggested that they should check their stock and talk to all installers to do a recall. I didn't get a reply. I bought a length of reinforced fuel hose and did away with the metal pipe/rubber bend combination. What does diesel fuel do to rubber that is not designed for fuel use?

[rhinosm]

Hi Garry
Coincidently I had a Long Ranger fitted a couple of weeks ago by ARB.
I'm loving not having to visit the bowser as frequently.
Even around town having the range works for me.
Big benefit will obviously be when we head to central oz mid year.

I have made a bracket to stand spare vertical in back, drivers side.
Its being powder coated this week so up load some pics hopefully next weekend.
My thinking is, for around town that will work, if need be on trips I can remove and put on roof or in trailer.
RWC just don't work for me.

Cheers

[ramblingboy42]

I really appreciate peoples concerns about fuel range , but I've been doing long range desert trips for so many years, my next trip is in April and I think it is #20 or 21. .....Tombie.....must catch up to you.....I keep driving past.
I used to carry 50-60 litres spare fuel and never used it. I know we are talking about D4s here and I'm talking my old D2 and now my Ranger, but seriously , where are you guys travelling that you need such range?
In my D2 I could get around 900km out of the 95ltr tank. In my Ranger it's better. Even if you have to use low range a fair bit you are still going to get 400-450 km from a tank of fuel.
The point I'm making is I can't think where you would be driving now that you cant get fuel every 4-500km. I stop and rest all the time and if it's near a servo where I stop then I fill up. Every driver should really stop and rest, fart , **** , smell the roses.
I still always carry extra fuel... in a jerry....which depending how pedantic you are , can just about squeeze in anywhere.
I'm not condemning anyone for wanting extra fuelrange , but with the amount of "remote" facilities available to stop at, refuel , eat, get ice, water, ice cream , beer, shower , swim etc I elect for more stops these days.

[Tombie]

Please do! There’s a few trips from here where we don’t see fuel for a significant distance..

[orville]

The only time I have had reason to want extra fuel is when camping off road and doing trips from the camp site. I use Jerry cans and an inline electric fuel pump to top up the tank. Not as convenient but I can buy a lot of fuel for that $4000 needed for tank and wheel carrier.

[orville]

On my D3 I had a Long Ranger, no problems in 8 years. I decided on BD for my D4. The fitting for the breather tube on the tank was too small and the drain plug was on the bottom of the tank hanging down and not on the front vertical part of the tank as in the installation photos. However the most worrying problem was that the rubber bend they supplied for the tank was labelled "Water Only". A search on the brand of the bend showed that it should have been "Fuel Only". I emailed BD and suggested that they should check their stock and talk to all installers to do a recall. I didn't get a reply. I bought a length of reinforced fuel hose and did away with the metal pipe/rubber bend combination. What does diesel fuel do to rubber that is not designed for fuel use?The fuel eats the inside of the tube. This was in the floor of my boat. Just replaced it. Filter was clogging up so I pulled up the floor to investigate.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/147.jpg

[Tombie]

The only time I have had reason to want extra fuel is when camping off road and doing trips from the camp site. I use Jerry cans and an inline electric fuel pump to top up the tank. Not as convenient but I can buy a lot of fuel for that $4000 needed for tank and wheel carrier.

Bugger me! What carrier and tank are you looking at [emoji56]

[cjc_td5]

Hi Garry
...

I have made a bracket to stand spare vertical in back, drivers side.
Its being powder coated this week so up load some pics hopefully next weekend.
My thinking is, for around town that will work, if need be on trips I can remove and put on roof or in trailer.
RWC just don't work for me.

Cheers

That sounds interesting mate. I have even wondered at removing (or severely modifying) the RH trim panel to get the tyre right over near the window. I look forward to seeing some photos when you have it installed.

Cheers,
Chris

[rhinosm]

Photo of spare tyre bracket.
I have a custom ply floor, rear seats removed.
Bracket will bolt to floor using 2 tie points on RHS and one bolt thru ply floor.
Plate cut to go around trap doors in floor.
I'll take more pics when back from powder coaters and installed.

[rhinosm]

Spare wheel mount done and installed.

[DI5CO]

Do you have a bag for the tyre? What if this happens and you get a flat? Lol
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/513.jpg

[Tombie]

Like it, glad you have a cage there though.
Did you model that bracket for stress?
I don’t think that material could hold it in an impact.