Possible to weld (or otherwise put) hi lift points around a D1 without bar work?

[Young Angus]

I love my D1 and I do t really want to put bar work all over it yet but I wouldn't mind having good hi lift points all around it...Anyone ever just weld on some points to jack off?

I suppose I could use something in the tow hitch for the back maybe...If I can hook something around my Bullbar I guess that's another one for the front...But nothing on the sides apart from one of those hooks that sits in the wheel spokes...Too bad if I get a flat though.

Might not be possible without having side bars on it but maybe someone else has thought about this before.

Just bored waiting for my assistant who is running really late for work and drinking coffee thinking about these useless things [emoji16]

[Vern]

Get a bottle jack

[Fausto79]

Get a bottle jack

or a bottle of jacks.

[Young Angus]

Haha a bottle of jacks....I've got a couple of bottles jacks so actually I do have a bottle of jacks, just gotta find a big enough bottle, cmon though what if I need to lift it up from the side surely someone has come across this before on a track where a bottle jack is useless?

[trout1105]

If you use a high lift jack on the sides of your disco that chances of smashing panels and fingers is pretty high.
Most decent bullbars come with a couple of jacking slots built into them and the towbar can be used at the rear of the truck.
As far as I am concerned the high lift jacks are dangerous bloody things and an exhaust jack is a more user and disco friendly option.
I have a 10t bottle jack for wheel changes and recovery boards, snatch straps, shovel and a winch are pretty much all I will ever need as recovery gear.
I bought a high lift jack 20 years ago and have Never needed to use it despite getting seriously bogged on many occasions and it has lived in the shed for over a decade now.

[Rick1970]

Agree hi lifts have their uses, but jeez they can be dangerous. I make do with a bottle jack, jack and pack if and when needed.

[Roverlord off road spares]

AGREE high LIFT jacks can be very dangerous if over zealously used. maybe get your self some max tracks and an exhaust jack . Exhaust jacks can slide under skinny confines , but risk of puncture if not careful.The other solution is be smart and take the chicken route around bog holes avoiding getting bogged in the first place . [thumbsupbig]

[cripesamighty]

One particular time a high lift jack saved our butts was when we used its inherent instability as a positive. We ended up jacking from the rear bar, pushed the car from the side and then tipped the jack over. Then did the same with the front. Rinse and repeat. We crabbed the stuck vehicle sideways out of some deep cloying mudd onto firmer ground and then carried on our merry way. Well not really our merry way - we actually went back to get the recovery gear at camp that we forgot to originally put in the vehicle! The jacking took bloody ages and we were ultra careful not to hurt ourselves though and all of us were paranoid the whole time. But it did work though!

[trout1105]

One particular time a high lift jack saved our butts was when we used its inherent instability as a positive. We ended up jacking from the rear bar, pushed the car from the side and then tipped the jack over. Then did the same with the front. Rinse and repeat. We crabbed the stuck vehicle sideways out of some deep cloying mudd onto firmer ground and then carried on our merry way. Well not really our merry way - we actually went back to get the recovery gear at camp that we forgot to originally put in the vehicle! The jacking took bloody ages and we were ultra careful not to hurt ourselves though and all of us were paranoid the whole time. But it did work though!

I Bet you wished that you had a winch instead of the high lift jack on that occasion [biggrin]

[cripesamighty]

Yep!!!

[Homestar]

Without sidebars, maybe not easily. I built sliders for my RRC which has a chassis - I can jack from each side, off the back rear step bar or the bullbar - but have never had to as the ****ing thing never gets out of the driveway!

[loanrangie]

Forget the hilift, used mine once on a car and the bloody handle cracked me on the head.

[Young Angus]

Forget the hilift, used mine once on a car and the bloody handle cracked me on the head.

Oh wow haha I shouldn't laugh but that took me by surprise!

[AK83]

Can re-iterate and confirm that for lifting, an inflatable jack is much better than a hi lift.

brother has a hi lift(came with his car) and I got myself an 'exhaust' jack. (no need for two similar items, so I thought best to go laterally with our joint capabilities)

Hi lift requires a bit of work, and is slow, and you got to be careful if you don't want damage to life and vehicle .. and on it's own on soft ground is pretty much useless(ie. you need a base plate of some type for it)

So in terms of weight, the air jack is the winner here.

Only problem so far with the air jack(and why I call it an air jack and not an exhaust jack .. is that the flexible link in the Tdi doesn't really allow the air jack to fill up easily or quickly .. or even at all!
You plug the exhaust plug into the rear tail pipe and you hear the loud chuffing coming out the front of the exhaust instead!

BUT!! .. what does work well is that some of these air jacks come with a schrader valve fitting as an accessory, and you use a compressor to fill the bag instead(hence air jack)
Works brilliantly, and I guess the quality and output capacity of your compressor will determine how long it takes to lift the vehicle to a suitable height.

I have a piddly little 1 or 2CFM ebay compressor I got about 15years ago(that still works!?!?!) and it take about 2mins to lift the D1 to a point where the wheel is off the ground to change tyre.
But as you can't lift from the axle(just like a hilift can't) you need to lift from the body.

I've lifted from both the sides and the rear .. not game to try from the front tho.

Mine cost me about $100, in a large bag with all accessories, and it makes far less noise when stowed away than a rattly hilift!! ;)

Hi lift advantage is that it could act as a psuedo ram if ever needed too in an emergency, and hence as a short winch if set up safely.
(question is unless it's life or death, why bother?)
But the air jack can double up as a pseudo bean bag seat if you can put up with the hard faced surface on your posterior! [thumbsupbig]

Ideally, you probably want both, but if you had to choose one over the other, definitely the air jack. Just takes up more room(volume of) but the lighter weight of it makes up for that.

[Roverlord off road spares]

Forget the hilift, used mine once on a car and the bloody handle cracked me on the head.
the senario of being out bush and you get one of these let go and it breaks bones away from medical pain relief sends shivers up my spine. as your body is real close to it when using it, at least with a winch you can stand way back.

[alien]

If your keen to use the Hilift look at the wheel adapters.
Genuine Hi Lift Wheel Lift Kit - Lift Mate - www.roadrunneroffroad.com.au (http://www.roadrunneroffroad.com.au/Hi-Lift-Farm-Jack-Wheel-Mate-Lift.html)

[trout1105]

If your keen to use the Hilift look at the wheel adapters.
Genuine Hi Lift Wheel Lift Kit - Lift Mate - www.roadrunneroffroad.com.au (http://www.roadrunneroffroad.com.au/Hi-Lift-Farm-Jack-Wheel-Mate-Lift.html)

A 10t bottle jack is far easier and safer to use and at about 30-40 bucks each they are far cheaper as well, They also take up bugger all room and also weigh a lot less [thumbsupbig]

[alien]

A 10t bottle jack is far easier and safer to use and at about 30-40 bucks each they are far cheaper as well, They also take up bugger all room and also weigh a lot less [thumbsupbig]

A bit hard to get underneath a vehicle bogged in mud or bellied out on the differential housings in ruts with a jack.
It's about being equipped for the terrain you intend to drive[thumbsupbig]

[trout1105]

A bit hard to get underneath a vehicle bogged in mud or bellied out on the differential housings in ruts with a jack.
It's about being equipped for the terrain you intend to drive[thumbsupbig]

I am talking about using a jack to change a wheel or to lift the truck so that you can work underneath it.
Being equiped for the terrain you intend to drive is about having a winch, maxtrack's, snatch straps and the like, A highlift jack is a very poor substitute for these bits of kit.
I would Much rather spend 10min using a winch to get out of a bog hole that a few hours grovelling about in the muck struggling with a highlift jack anyday [thumbsupbig]

[Pub247]

When i broke my rear diff i use hi lift in the towbar to lift rear off ground to figure out if it was broken. Bloody jack fell over whole car dropped and bounced. Theyre bloody dangerous alright.

[AK83]

.....
I would Much rather spend 10min using a winch to get out of a bog hole that a few hours grovelling about in the muck struggling with a highlift jack anyday [thumbsupbig]

Yeah, but what about if you break something under the car whilst in the middle of that muck and that why it's stuck there .. or even a simple flat/blown tyre that needs to be changed.

[trout1105]

Yeah, but what about if you break something under the car whilst in the middle of that muck and that why it's stuck there .. or even a simple flat/blown tyre that needs to be changed.

Why would you want to fix anything in a bog hole, You winch or get towed out first Then fix whatever is wrong, Working under ANY jack in a bog hole is dangerous/stupid and the winching or getting towed out wont do any more damage anyway.

[AK83]

Why would you want to fix anything in a bog hole, You winch or get towed out first Then fix whatever is wrong, Working under ANY jack in a bog hole is dangerous/stupid and the winching or getting towed out wont do any more damage anyway.

So if you had flat tyre in a bog hole, you'd winch your vehicle out before fixing the tyre and in the process, more than likely destroy the carcass of the tyre in the process?
It'd be an awesome world where getting stuck in awkward situations due to a broken part was always as easy as just dragging it out .. but the reality is that this isn't the case.

The actual reality is that hi lift jacks have been used successfully in many situations where it was the appropriate thing to do.
There's always going to be some numpty that simply has no clue as to how to safely use some device ... hi lift jacks are no more or less dangerous than winches, or snatch straps, or any other product when used by said numpty!

My dad's '67 and '73 Cadillacs both had their own hi-lift type jacks as the standard lift device that came with the car. it hooked up to the bumpers and lifts the car body rather than the axle.
Rover P6's came with a similar style of jack that lifted the vehicle, on a post, where you wound the post up via a rotary handle, after inserting the jacks lifting post into a receiver on the side of the vehicle.
Both those vehicles come from an era where cost seemed to play a secondary role to usability tho ... now they give you pseudo jacks that save the company a few dollars per unit item.

A bottle jack is not any safer than a hi lift jack in almost any given situation.

[trout1105]

A bottle jack is not any safer than a hi lift jack in almost any given situation.

I have to Strongly dissagree with that statement.
High lift jacks are inherantly unstable and the old "Bumper Jacks" that used to come with the early model Valiants and Falcons were No better.
A 10t bottle jack is a much better proposition.

[AK83]

I have to Strongly dissagree with that statement.
High lift jacks are inherantly unstable and the old "Bumper Jacks" that used to come with the early model Valiants and Falcons were No better.
A 10t bottle jack is a much better proposition.

Your point of view is fair enough .... and no one is going to deny you to it.
But if highlift jacks were somehow more dangerous than bottle jacks, governments would have legislated against them by now(considering the nanny state we've become!) [tonguewink]

[Fausto79]

my old work, being a 4wd tour company actually banned drivers from using hi lifts. the vehicles were fairly big so they took massive bottle jacks with them and stands which were modified by one of the mechanics. they generally had fairly big ground clearance so getting under them wasnt an issue. more to change tires etc.

to be honest unless you drive through deep mud im not sure how you can get that bogged that you need a jack. the few times ive lost traction ive stopped in time to just get my treds out and drove out of the bog. ive used my winch to get my mate's d3 out of mud and some other vehicles on occasions and he used his winch once to get me out of mud. same day. i would only use a jack to change tires or fix something once i was on good ground and never with the jack alone. should always have decent support to hold your vehicle up if you are working near it and not the jack alone.

personally hi lifts scare the crap out of me

[trout1105]

Your point of view is fair enough .... and no one is going to deny you to it.
But if highlift jacks were somehow more dangerous than bottle jacks, governments would have legislated against them by now(considering the nanny state we've become!) [tonguewink]

The Government doesn't have to legislate as car manufacturers No longer supply them with their cars and very few people still actually use them anymore because there are Now far better alternatives (eg winches + exhaust jacks) which are easily available and affordable.
If you want to use one of these high lift jacks then that is your prerogative But to promote their use on a site like this that is visited by so many "Newbies" is irresponsible [thumbsupbig]

[Young Angus]

Perhaps any newbie should be linked straight to this thread for a few opinions on how dangerous these things can be...Scare enough people out of getting one in the first place.

After hearing how few people actually ever use them I'd love to know how many people actually use hi lifts, considering when you see one on a car that same car usually also has Maxtrax and a winch stuck to it too.

[trout1105]

Perhaps any newbie should be linked straight to this thread for a few opinions on how dangerous these things can be...Scare enough people out of getting one in the first place.

After hearing how few people actually ever use them I'd love to know how many people actually use hi lifts, considering when you see one on a car that same car usually also has Maxtrax and a winch stuck to it too.

They are cheap, easily available and apparently they look "Cool", Much like cigarettes used to be [bigwhistle]

[Young Angus]

You have to admit they do look pretty cool haha they can kill you a lot faster than the smokes though!

[AK83]

@ Ben! .. if you have a compressor, seriously have a look for a good exhaust jack. Kit should come complete, and if you don't already have a compressor .. would be handy to have too.


The Government doesn't have to legislate as car manufacturers No longer supply them with their cars and very few people still actually use them anymore ....
Cost!

it's far more profitable for manufacturers to supply a $2 scissor type jack, than a $20 hi lift type jack.

Having used both types .. personally I prefer the exhaust jack! [biggrin]
That's why I bought one [thumbsupbig] .. much easier than all other jack types.
Other than the fact that it's useless on my 300 Tdi via the exhaust, as the flexijoint just puffs the exhaust gasses out that way, rather than into the bag! ... I use my compressor, and have one of those cool, albeit lethal smokes, while it does it's thing.

Seriously tho, choice between bottle or hi lift: I'd choose a hi lift type over a bottle jack any day!

On a Caddy, I defy anyone to get under there to inset a bottle jack considering it's ground clearance and long rear end! .. and as for my P6's, I can't fathom where you'd safely place a bottle jack to lift one of it's wheels to change a tyre.
Both of those lift jacks were safely used many numbers of times without any deathly consequences to myself(or my dad) back in the day.

As for the comments re fixing/changing tyres with jack alone: not every motorist stores vehicle support devices in their cars, and shouldn't be expected too either.
Vehicles only come with the most rudimentary of tools to change a tyre.
You'll get a bottle or scissor jack, a wheel chock and the tools needed to remove wheel nuts, wheel and operate the jack. You don't get car stands or any other support devices of any type to support the car whilst you change a tyre.

[bee utey]

I remember the one time I really needed my exhaust jack to work, when I got hung up in some deep muddy ruts on the Birdsville Track. The jack bag just kept slipping out the side like a big soap bubble, no use at all. Fortunately traffic was heavy that day and after an hour or so a friendly 4WD driver came by and pulled me out.

[Fausto79]

You have to admit they do look pretty cool haha they can kill you a lot faster than the smokes though!

the camel man looked pretty cool too. i wonder where he is now? darn was looking for a tombstone smiley but there isn't one here.

[Fausto79]

certainly drove cool cars [bigrolf]

136043

[Young Angus]

Haha sounds like there are serious pros and serious (sometimes dangerous) cons to all jacks. How much space does a good exhaust jack take up when stored away? They sound like the ticket but the disco boot doesn't exactly lend itself to storing lots of things haha

I've got a compressor and a bloody nice one too...Bob Jane had a deal not long ago where if you bought four BFG tyres you got a free ARB compressor. My work ute needed tyres and I needed a compressor so that one happened to work out very nicely.

[AK83]

H.... How much space does a good exhaust jack take up when stored away? They sound like the ticket but the disco boot doesn't exactly lend itself to storing lots of things haha

....

BIG!

While I keep mine there most of the time, it is soft and large, so quite easy to mangle into a space somewhere, whilst you're stuffing items up to the roof! [biggrin]
Alternatively tho, as it's so light compared to a hi lift, strap it down onto the roof rack.
Better an exhaust jack up there than a 20-30kg hi lift!(as well as any other gear).

Actual size is(I'm measuring now for 'ya ... ) 600x400mm(about 100mm thickness) .. but not rectangular, it's semi circular on the 400mm side. Like a medium sized duffle bag, and a fair bit of air inside tho .. so squashable to fit into some strangely shaped spot to stop other things rattling about.

So far my biggest faux pas with it has been that I once used it to rotate the tyres one day in my drive, and lifted each side(both wheels) at a time. Had the handbrake on of course .. which is totally useless unless you lock the diff lock. [bigwhistle]
Massive DOH! moment for me.
But a semi safety side effect of doing it this way was that as the car got light on the one side, it gently .. ie. very gently rolled a mm or two whilst all wheels were still on the ground. [thumbsupbig]
That is, it gave me plenty of warning as to my brain faded moment of forgetting about the handbrake effect, so I stopped the compressor filling it, let some air out, chocked the other side's wheels and then continued on again once I reset the location of the air bag.

The kit I got came with protective fabric for top and bottom of bag, a few puncture patches just in case of a mishap, and hoses for exhaust and a compressor(schrader valve) fitting ..

[Young Angus]

BIG!

While I keep mine there most of the time, it is soft and large, so quite easy to mangle into a space somewhere, whilst you're stuffing items up to the roof! [biggrin]
Alternatively tho, as it's so light compared to a hi lift, strap it down onto the roof rack.
Better an exhaust jack up there than a 20-30kg hi lift!(as well as any other gear).

Actual size is(I'm measuring now for 'ya ... ) 600x400mm(about 100mm thickness) .. but not rectangular, it's semi circular on the 400mm side. Like a medium sized duffle bag, and a fair bit of air inside tho .. so squashable to fit into some strangely shaped spot to stop other things rattling about.

So far my biggest faux pas with it has been that I once used it to rotate the tyres one day in my drive, and lifted each side(both wheels) at a time. Had the handbrake on of course .. which is totally useless unless you lock the diff lock. [bigwhistle]
Massive DOH! moment for me.
But a semi safety side effect of doing it this way was that as the car got light on the one side, it gently .. ie. very gently rolled a mm or two whilst all wheels were still on the ground. [thumbsupbig]
That is, it gave me plenty of warning as to my brain faded moment of forgetting about the handbrake effect, so I stopped the compressor filling it, let some air out, chocked the other side's wheels and then continued on again once I reset the location of the air bag.

The kit I got came with protective fabric for top and bottom of bag, a few puncture patches just in case of a mishap, and hoses for exhaust and a compressor(schrader valve) fitting ..

Hey thanks Arthur! [emoji106]

Haha I guess all jacks can be dangerous ;) Better in your driveway than out on a track when you're bogged and stressed though.

I got two sidewall punctures in the space of one week on the work Hilux a few weeks ago, brand new Goodyear All Terrains and both unrepairable...Luckily I was close to tyre shops each time, turns out a trolley jack is easier than all of the above and it helps to have a rattle gun too [emoji16]

[chillman]

I was taught that a high lift jack is a recovery tool nothing more. I was shown to use it's inherent instability, like jacking up the front bar and pushing the truck over to get out of ruts when beached or using a cradle to lift a tyre to get something under the tyre for more traction or clearance. It can also be used as a basic hand winch if you don't have better options. The thought of using it to change a tyre sends shivers up my spine.

[Young Angus]

I was taught that a high lift jack is a recovery tool nothing more. I was shown to use it's inherent instability, like jacking up the front bar and pushing the truck over to get out of ruts when beached or using a cradle to lift a tyre to get something under the tyre for more traction or clearance. It can also be used as a basic hand winch if you don't have better options. The thought of using it to change a tyre sends shivers up my spine.

I think that's probably it in a nutshell...that's all I'll ever be using one for...and that's if the winch and the ramps don't work without it first!

[AK83]

.... I was shown to use it's inherent instability, like jacking up the front bar and pushing the truck over to get out of ruts ....

That's just one of the methods a hi lift can be used.

I really don't think people realise all the many ways that a hi lift CAN be used.
When a hi lift is mentioned, they close their minds to the most common way it's used.

When used in a proper receiver(as Ben originally asked!) .. the hi lift jack is far more stable than a bottle jack placed under an axle.
Laws of physics can be argued with on that topic.

Bottle jack, or any spindly tower placed on an axle is place closer to the centre of gravity, and in doing so is inherently less stable.
Think about it in the sense that if you jack up a car with a trolley jack from the diff, the car will be unstable till 2 axle stands are also placed under the axles for proper lateral support.
Bottle jack is no different in it's stability. You jack the vehicle from within it's general mass.

With a proper hi lift setup .. as in this pic:

HI LIFT JACK IMAGE: (http://www.landroverpassion.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/HiLift-Adapter-Land-Rover-Passion-2.jpg)

Having the jack take the the weight of the car outside it's mass, makes that leg more stable.

The old P6 Rovers used the same system, where the 'hi lift' jacks rod foot was inserted into a round slot in the sill.
There was no way once that corner was lifted with the jack that the car would budge .. no matter how muck leverage was used to move the car, and this is from experience having tried to use that old 'inherently unstable' hi lift jack theory to unbog one of my P6's.
In the end having used a large log as leverage under the old Rover, I successfully snapped the jack, and the car didn't budge(had to walk for miles to get assistance too!).

When a hi lift is used loosely, yes! .. they are unstable, and that method is used for recovery. But when used properly, hi lift jack is inherently far more stable than a bottle jack .. no question about it!

The problem with a hi lift is that it weighs a ton(comparatively) takes up a lot of room, is usually mounted in a location that places undue stress on the parts that it's mounted on, or adds unnecessary dead weight were it's best no added.. and they rattle like mad over rough roads.

Very low on the list of things my brothers D2 needs is a set of proper hi lift jacking points(ie. the receivers) if I ever get around to it one of these days ..
One day after it's done, I'll try to do a comparison of how much more stable a hi lift can be compared to a bottle jack under an axle.

But saying all that, the exhaust bag is still #1! [thumbsupbig]