Eas issues.

[Belize]

Hi fellow p38 owners.
My 96 is still going strong and gets well used for its intended purpose.
Its over 20 years old and needs attention when things get worn as you would expect, however I do still have problems with the EAS .
Ive re built the valve block always rebuild the compressor and the reason I rebuild the compressor is that it tends to just cycle continuously.
The system has no leaks in it ,however the pump get the pressure to 130 PSI .The front then lowers letting air from the air exhaust ? Then the pump cycles again pumps it back up .This process is never ending. Has anyone got any idea what can be done or of any good mechanic that knows about this system in esst Gippsland

[PeterH]

I've had this before on my P38, it's called the slow dance, the compressor runs, then shuts off, the eas makes a few exhaust noises, then the compressor kicks in again, with the front continually going up and down. With the compressor running all the time it would cause premature wear to the piston seal.
Non-return valves leaking will cause the front to slowly dance, (the 3 valves with the springs in the valve block)
When stopped the front spring valves open to equalize pressure, if the compressor is running AND the non-return valves leak, compressor discharge will go straight into the front springs.
Once the front height gets enough out of tolerance the ECU will lower the front end, since there's a leak the tank is likely not full so the compressor continues to run, and the cycle continues.
I had a faulty non return valve, I couldn't find any non return valves as a part, so I ended up getting a second hand valve block and using that for parts.
Mine has been fine since.
The tiny o rings can also pinch and cause problems.
Hope that is of some help!
Cheers, Pete.

[DieselLSE]

Agree with PeterH, but the dance problem is almost certainly being caused by one or more wheel height sensors sending false or out of range signals to the ECU. So the ECU continually adjusts the other sensors down and if the same fault is triggered in another height sensor the cycle can continue all the way to the bump stops. Air being extracted from an air bag is passed through the dryer (to purge it) and then through the valve block to the atmosphere. I suspect your valve block is an innocent player in this and only doing its job.
You could also have a hole or tear in one air bag that is only exposed at a certain height.
If your height sensors are original fit, it would pay to replace all of them. Not cheap, but I've seen their replacement transform a P38. And the new ones will last another 20 years.

[daf11e]

Pete is spot on with what happened to mine....I rebuilt the valve block and pinched the o ring which gave me exactly these symptoms, refitted o ring and been good since.

[Keithy P38]

G’day mate!

Can I ask how long you monitor the EAS doing this “fill and release”?

Usual behavior for about 15 minutes of driving is as you describe. If it’s happening after an hour of driving it might be time to do a suspension height calibration, as it could be continuously adjusting.

The system is designed to switch the compressor off while lowering any spring, otherwise it will discharge this pressurized air out the exhaust.

Its really good that you have a strong compressor!

Cheers
Keithy

[Belize]

Thank for all the info guys.
Ill check the valve block again but this car has been doing this since the day i got it.
It's Cycles that much that it burnt-out that a m p plug so i rewired it ,only had an Anderson plug and that's lasted for about 6 weeks and that's melted
I don't mind buying new sensors but then I'd have to buy a diagnostic tool and I'm worried I'm going to spend all this money on this car and still not get the problem sorted.
Is there anyone close to East Gippsland Victoria that has a diagnostic tool

[Belize]

I'm seriously thinking of just disabling the eas system it's the only major problem I have with this car and I'm out of my abilty a bit, I think most people are

[theelms66]

If you plan on keeping the beast .the diagnostic tool is the 1st port of call . It will save a lot on unnecessary work.

[donh54]

I bought a Nanocom as soon as I got my P38A- best thing I ever did. I know some on here with D3/4s have got a manual setup for emergencies. Fits schraeder valves into each airbag line, and you set the pressure manually. Could be a solution for you. But, having driven a D3 with air, and one with springs, I'd personally give the springs a wide miss.

[PLR]

G`day ,

if you have a laptop etc you don`t need to spend much for EAS diagnostics that you can do yourself .

Not the kicker the lead ob11 , usb , disc etc .

RSW solutions have the software free to download



P38a range rover eas - Google Search (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=P38a+range+rover+eas&rlz=1C1EODB_enAU572AU574&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW9_ui17rZAhVBG5QKHQ9aABMQ_AUICigB&biw=1164&bih=826#spd=5946929855435321849)

[Belize]

I already have a mars system its the first thing I did after having the first lot of issues with the EAS I think I'll end up on in arick on but I just hope that I can use it and it sort it out myself

[Belize]

Sorry
Voice to text didnt work out too well there!
I meant to say i might have to buy the tool and hopefully be able to work out the problem

[Belize]

Hi guys.
Brought the nanocom.Communicating with the p38 no problem.havac section bring up no faults ,but thats certainly not working properly ,that a problem for later on
Firstly the problem with the slow dance! First fault was that the parameters was out on both left and right front.cleared fault and had p38 running and it was doing the slow dance .commpreesor run 120psi lift 50mm exhaust air drop 5omm drop to 110 psi and all over again.[emoji848]
The nanacom didnt pick this up on the live outputs? I thought it wpuld ??i tried adjusting the settings with no difference made.
Im still unsure what will fix this (new hieght sensor arms?) And i have no idea what setting are normal
Pls help🤤🤤

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/425.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/426.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/427.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/428.jpg

[Keithy P38]

If you’re handy on the tools, I’d be making a set of calibration blocks and doing a full calibration on the suspension.

Looking at your pics, I’d say you were at standard height when you took them, and if you compare the “stored” and “current” numbers for that height, I’d say you’re not too bad at all. They are very close to spot on what it’s asking for.

Watch them for a while (with the doors closed and feet off the brakes) and see if it’s constantly adjusting.

Otherwise I’d suggest you have a leak either in the exhaust side, or somewhere between the valve block and the tank.

Cheers
Keithy

[Belize]

Hi Keith
Thanks for the reply.im handy running my own plumbing business. Just not that familiar with the eas.i spend alot of time on this vehicle.
Ive been taking the relay?from under the passenger seat having burnt out 2 plugs at the compressor so far,im smart enough to make sure not to burn out anything else.. i plug the relay back.in if i need to change heights. The car holds pressure in tank and all bags for weeks at a time.lve had my time chasing leaks and rebuilding valve blocks trying to solve this problem. Not quite sure on how exhaust would be causing this slow dance.i was thinking of swaping sensor arms over ?
Im going to see if the nanocom picks up the adjustment tonight.and in what setting. And post a video
Thanks brad

[Belize]

O.k acess hieght [emoji108]
High profile [emoji108]pump and adjusts for a little while then settles and compressor cuts out a 150 psi. Holds engine running.
Standard height [emoji107]continually cycles as video .never stops it jumps beteeen both heights on nanocom .not always the same extent but has a pattern.[emoji34][emoji34]
Pls help.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/514.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/03/515.jpg

[Belize]

Swap over both height sensors on the front tonight .
Hoping that would solve my problems. No luck .
Doesnt seem to make any sense to replace them with new ones as they are interchangeable
Im at a lose as there isnt a fault getting register on the nanocom
Any help would be highly appreciated.

[Keithy P38]

Sounds like a silly question, but what condition are your air springs in? If it’s only doing it at standard height might suggest that the bags are perished at the crease when in standard height, but the cracks disappear at other heights as the bags “seal”.

Cheers
Keithy

[Belize]

Thanks for the reply.
Ones new ,went through a wombat hole and poped it .so i replaced that one -not a hard job .like i mentioned before it will hold in any hieght for long periods.
Do i replace the 2 sensors on the front. Seems like a waste of money but im all out of ideas .

[TheTree]

I would suspect that both height sensors have a "flat spot" though the fact that you swapped them over and it made no difference is a bit strange.

The fact that the dancing happens at standard height where the vehicle spends most of it's time really points to sensor wear

Steve

[Belize]

That's what I thought so I might take it for a drive this afternoon with the nanocom connected and just see how often the compressor does come on and maybe just buy new sensors.
The better half thinks I should just buy new Patrol but I still like the p38 and I can work on it.
I'm nearly there[emoji275]

[Keithy P38]

If all else fails, I’d be going to old faithful - and I’ll preach this til the day P38’s die. The Driver Unit. They are getting old, and even I’ve experienced this. When the driver unit goes, the suspension starts doing strange things. Sometimes they fault, sometimes they won’t.

I used a freshly rebuilt valve block on my old P38, but the driver unit was original, and sent the car through crazy things. Admittantly I didn’t monitor the pressure in the tank, but it let me down the day I sold that P38. Luckily I had a spare.

Height sensors are very robust, I think yours are ok.

Cheers
Keithy

[TheTree]

I agree with Keithy, If the insulation on the driver unit looks like old chocolate then it is cooked!

A little weird it's only playing up on one height setting though

Steve

[Belize]

Hi guys
The driver unit was replace 3 years ago when i brought the vehicle.As like many p38 it had been neglected for a long time i recall it cost about 600 if my memory serves me right .
I spent about 4 grand when first purchased it .went front to back
With all maintenance required.
If i dont fix this little problem its going to turn into a major problem its just putting to much strain on the compressor components. Im thinking of taking it to a specialist ,4 hrs away im just concerned that they are just going to swap parts.its starting to get real expensive due to loss work time .no one seems to know how to fix these cars[emoji29]

[Belize]

I've been trying to upload a 1 minute video of exactly what it's been doing but I just can't upload it to The Pinnacles site it says it's too big??

[TheTree]

Frustrating stuff mate!

I would be looking at the sensors again because this only happens at Std height

Steve

[Belize]

Frustrating .all my mate's are Toyota and Nissan men. when I came across this car I thought you beauty what a magnificent vehicle and it was cheap.sometimes I wonder

[PLR]

G`day ,

if you suspect your height sensors take them off one at a time use on Ohm meter and test their range and consistency .

Mark them at problem height so you can easily check them there .

Check the connectors , and wiring to each etc , is the loom able to swing free .

If the numbers now are the same as when they were on the other sides i would swap them back to where they were so as to not create an unknown .

You have the capacity to alter the ride heights so i`d suggest you alter std height either higher or lower after noting the figs you have so it can go back if wanted .

If the problem is removed after height changes at the new std height and the height sensors check out , i`d suggest a closer look at the bags .

If it is only std height you need to look for reasons as to why and how it is possible to only happen then .

I take it for what you have typed that it is not soft or hard faulting .

Post #2 and the explanation of why has most merit for mine even if behaving at the other heights .

If Ritters are the specialist you refer to ring them and talk to them ,explain what your doing where you are , i`ve found they look after country folk and can be helpful if asked but they are a business .

[Belize]

Thanks for all the support guys.
Im glad i got a nanacom even though i dont know what half of it means (im sure i will learn in the future [emoji38])just hooked it up and got my little girl in as co polit
Started it at extended height 150 psi lower to stardard drove out of drive .cycled 2 x30 sec .didnt come on again then hwy hieght didnt come on for 12 km .at farm gate . Cycled looking for hieght main problem.extended height compressor on off for 5 minutes.held for the next 40min no compressor. Out of gate onto road compressor on for 40 sec back home.hit lock in button hwy mode and pulled in drive and it held not looking for height. [emoji16]
Its 95 % perfect apart from very slow /stopped at standard height. Im replacing sensor arms and maybe talking to Peninsula rangie?
I go spotlighting once a week for 4 hrs .thats why ive been burning out plugs its continually on / ofg on these nights

[Saulman1010]

So what are the optimum settings for the different heights? Mine are all over the placehttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/04/112.jpg

[Belize]

I'm not sure what the perfect height settings are but I've posted a picture 2 pages ago of all my settings and all my live settings

[Keithy P38]

There’s no “set numbers” when it comes to each height. There are “ranges”, which if you go outside, the ECU will default into fault after you input.

Your numbers look about normal. Mine are varied, similar to yours.

When a calibration is done, blocks are placed on the axle pads, bump stops removed, and at each height the car is lowered onto the blocks, the values at those heights are then input, and job done.

Cheers
Keithy

[Belize]

Hi guys
Was hoping for a good outcome today.
Replaced both front hieght sensors today brand new sensors at 500.00 .thinking it was going to sort out the on going problem.
No luck ,continues to do the exact same thing.no fault on nanocom..
Surely somebody must know how to fix this on a p38?
I'll try to post a video once again if anyone can help please ??

[Keithy P38]

All signs point to the driver unit in my opinion. Once they go, strange things happen mate.

I know yours is only 3yrs old, but it’s also been subject to a lot of heat.

Find someone who has a known working spare one and try it out. It will show you straight away if it’s the problem. You’ll throw money at it for months to come otherwise, and wifey will get the ****s!

Cheers
Keithy

[PeterH]

Before going any further, please refer to the very first reply to this thread.
If I were you, if you have already checked properly for leaks, I'd be suspecting the valve block before trying anything else.

It's easy to get caught up delving deeper and deeper looking for other issues trying to solve a problem, when it is probably a valve block o ring issue.
The tiny o rings on the 3 non return valves can get pinched, or become unseated and cause exactly these issues, that would be my first suspect.

Keithy may well be be correct about the driver unit, but as a first step, checking the valve block will at the very least give you a good starting point.
I think you can just take off the non return valve section without disturbing anything else.
The diaphragm is very delicate and can be damaged easily, don't open that section up without having a replacement, I always put a new one in if I need to open that section up.

If you do the valve block and find it is still playing up, then I'd be looking at the driver unit next.
I know it can be very frustrating trying to diagnose eas issues, but when you get it sorted, it is almost an anti climax, it will just start working properly once again.

[daf11e]

I would add that it is frustrating as I know, Pete is right,
double check that the valve block o rings on the non return valves are not pinched and in good condition......if needed I am happy to send you a good driver unit to try...this unit has been sent to 2 members and sorted their problems....I'm happy to pay postage, just return it when finished....PM me your address and I'll send it Monday.

Jim

[Belize]

Thanks for the support guys.
Ill go back to the valve block i might of made a mistake when i rebuilt it .i might take you up on the offer jim if i have no luck.
It did this before i rebuilt it;thats why i rebuilt it.? Can you just buy the kit for the exhaust.

[daf11e]

Just double check the o rings are seated properly.....I inadvertently pinched one putting them back together....the tiny one in the NRV and it certainly made it dance.
If you have no luck let me know and I'll send you a driver unit ...we can go from there.
Ive also heard of the driver unit connections being grotty or corroded...Good Luck

Jim

[jota436]

Dear All,
Can anyone tell what was the end of this story?
Thanks,
José