Rear shocks - D4 - 3 tonne van

[JamesAdelaide]

Hi Guys,

I am having some rear suspension dampening issues.

Vehicle is Disco 4 2016 with 50,000km. Compomotive 18’s with newish BFG KO2. 3rd row rear seats removed to save weight, cargo barrier, OL bulbar, rhino platform tray added. Using standard LR towbar.

Have just bought a second hand bushtracker van, 3 tonne loaded with water, but none of our gear (being confirmed this week on weigh bridge).

Ball weight 280kg measured on a set of SCA cheapie scales.
This is only going to get higher as we load the front generator box (genny + 2 jerrys)
Bushtracker are big on heavy nose weight, they are very against rear spare wheels, jerrys...

It was towing a bit too nose down, we’ve adjust hitch on van to level it up, yet to test.
So far have towed it from dubbo back home to Adelaide.

I’ve towed our camper trailer (1.4 tonne) and our 2 tonne boat heaps, no issues.

With the van however, the rear shocks just don't seem to be dampening well at all.
Hit a bit of undulation and there is a lot of ‘bounce’ in the arse.
On the smoother stuff it tows like a dream.

Tows really well other than that, van is not shunting, just a big dead weight and very stable.
The d4 engine and trans is a dream for the weight, trans in particular really shines using 6th and 7th well (wehere a 200 series would be revving its head off in 4th no doubt!).

Has anyone had similar issues, surely after 50,000 km my shocks are nit stuffed??
Anyone got pricing on shock changeover?

I am talking it for a test drive with Triumph rover sprees this week.

[DieselLSE]

Just a thought and slightly off topic, but have you considered getting a Mitch Hitch? It sits about 50mm higher than the OEM D4 hitch. I suspect this would help by transferring the load point to level with the mid point of the chassis, as opposed to being lower than it.

[JamesAdelaide]

Yeah I have looked at it, but apart fro ground clearance, but of a waste of $$, and it puts the towball point further out.
Van is sitting perfect with the do35 hitch under the drawbar mount.

Anyone got any comments at all on d4 shocks?

James

[Geedublya]

It's possible that your shocks have lost their dampening due to either the oil going off or some mechanical problem and need replacement. 50K seems a little soon though, I just replaced mine at 200K due to a high speed patter but the low speed dampening still seemed OK. I didn't have any of the problems you describe even when towing my 3 tonne van which has a ball weight of just over 250kg on country back roads with undulations.

[JamesAdelaide]

It's possible that your shocks have lost their dampening due to either the oil going off or some mechanical problem and need replacement. 50K seems a little soon though, I just replaced mine at 200K due to a high speed patter but the low speed dampening still seemed OK. I didn't have any of the problems you describe even when towing my 3 tonne van which has a ball weight of just over 250kg on country back roads with undulations.

Thanks mate, good to know, sounds like similar van weights.
Could be a warranty claim... I'll see what my mechanic thinks on wed.
How much were yours to replace and did you just go factory ones?

[TrustyRusty]

Hi James,

Ive got a D4 TD6 2015 with 50,000kms and towed a 2.8t caravan (with water tank filled only). The tow ball on my D4 is also a bit low causing the nose of the van to slightly dip but still no issues like you describe from the rear shocks.

Ive just bought a new offroad 2.8t tare caravan so will probably be 3250Kg when fully loaded --- do you think this would be pushing the tow limit or asking for trouble for a lap around aus....Im just a bit worried im too close to the towing limit???

Regards

[101RRS]

Pitching is not uncommon - there is a long long thread on this about 6 months ago.

Garry

[Tombie]

There will be some pitching, aftermarket shocks aren’t successful at dealing with this either - most are worse!

The sensation is something that can be balanced by loading

[DiscoMick]

The rule of thumb is apparently the towball weight should be about 10% of the van weight. Sounds like yours is close to that.
I assume your D4 has air suspension. Have you got the air suspension adjusted so your D4 is level and not down at the back?

[Chops]

With mine there seems to be minimal pitching at any speed when fully loaded at just over 3.2t.
There will always be a little pitching if the roads a bit vague. I’ve had more weight than that on the back with a loaded car trailer, and it still behaved very well,,, even with no trailer brakes and a rather quick stop.
Two other things I’d be checking, is make sure your vans sitting level to start with, and if it’s an “off road” van, maybe have the suspension on that checked. If it’s on leaf springs, I’d think it wouldn’t be as critical. The last is how your brake controllers etc are set up,, making sure they’re compatible,,, not sure if that’s something to look out for, but I’d be checking to make sure.
With full air suspension, make sure you don’t use those hitch leveling units.

[LuckyLes]

Hi,
I pull a 2.8ton van with my D4. It has near enough to 10% ball weight. Last time I weighed it it was 280kg on the ball. What pressure are you running in your tyres? This can have a major effect on how the van tows.
Mine tows really well.
LuckyLes

[disco4now]

Have just bought a second hand bushtracker van, 3 tonne loaded with water, but none of our gear (being confirmed this week on weigh bridge).
...
Bushtracker are big on heavy nose weight, they are very against rear spare wheels, jerrys...

It was towing a bit too nose down, we’ve adjust hitch on van to level it up, yet to test.
So far have towed it from dubbo back home to Adelaide.
...
With the van however, the rear shocks just don't seem to be dampening well at all.
Hit a bit of undulation and there is a lot of ‘bounce’ in the arse.
On the smoother stuff it tows like a dream.



We have a 21' Bushtracker and have towed it about 50-60K now with D4 2010 3.0 and standard hitch just flipped over.We would be 3.5 tonne. The bounce or hobby horse affect you will get from time to time on undulating roads. The secondary roads in QLD is where you can really find it.
The Bushtracker factory normally will set you up with a slight nose down tow as they reckon in their experience this is how they tow best. The simplicity suspension is happy with nose down as van just pivots forward so no extra weight on the front van tires, so I would not worry about nose down, just keep it.

I connect my safety chains to the recovery point between the trailer sockets as way back some suggested the connecting points underneath on the actual hitch might not be strong enough.

We are on original shocks after 175K and 8 years and I don't notice any difference from when I started.

Regards
Gerry

[101RRS]

I assume your D4 has air suspension. Have you got the air suspension adjusted so your D4 is level and not down at the back?

All D4 have air suspension - how do you adjust it? Never heard of that before? I understood that the air suspension is self adjusting unless you have a leak or a sensor issue.

Garry

[LRD414]

All D4 have air suspension - how do you adjust it? Never heard of that before? I understood that the air suspension is self adjusting unless you have a leak or a sensor issue.
You're right Garry. I'm guessing Mick is thinking of coil suspension with air bag assist like is available for his Defender.

Scott

[LuckyLes]

Hi,
Is the car recognising the caravan is hooked up. Is the trailer light showing when you use the indicators. If the van has all LED lights the car may not recognise that the van is there.
Les

[Owen]

Im following this. My 2011 D4 gets the fades up on long stretches of corrugations and on my recent trip to cape your, the pitching was very annoying. Even a second shock to assist would be of interest !

[Tombie]

Hi,
Is the car recognising the caravan is hooked up. Is the trailer light showing when you use the indicators. If the van has all LED lights the car may not recognise that the van is there.
Les

Has no impact on this...

[Milton477]

It's completely normal to have some pitching when you have a quarter ton jumping up & down on the tow bar.

[DiscoMick]

All D4 have air suspension - how do you adjust it? Never heard of that before? I understood that the air suspension is self adjusting unless you have a leak or a sensor issue.

GarryYes, OK, I didn't explain that well. I was meaning is the vehicle level with the caravan attached?

[JamesAdelaide]

Sorry for slow replies, my thread subscriptions seem to drop off after a few days.




Ive got a D4 TD6 2015 with 50,000kms and towed a 2.8t caravan (with water tank filled only). The tow ball on my D4 is also a bit low causing the nose of the van to slightly dip but still no issues like you describe from the rear shocks. Regards
Do you know what weight yours is on the towball?



Pitching is not uncommon - there is a long long thread on this about 6 months ago. Garry

There will be some pitching, aftermarket shocks aren’t successful at dealing with this either - most are worse! The sensation is something that can be balanced by loading

With mine there seems to be minimal pitching at any speed when fully loaded at just over 3.2t.
There will always be a little pitching if the roads a bit vague. I’ve had more weight than that on the back with a loaded car trailer, and it still behaved very well,,, even with no trailer brakes and a rather quick stop.
Two other things I’d be checking, is make sure your vans sitting level to start with, and if it’s an “off road” van, maybe have the suspension on that checked. If it’s on leaf springs, I’d think it wouldn’t be as critical. The last is how your brake controllers etc are set up,, making sure they’re compatible,,, not sure if that’s something to look out for, but I’d be checking to make sure.
With full air suspension, make sure you don’t use those hitch leveling units.

I would not describe it as pitching, I assuem you mean a rocking action between front and rear. I had to google it - had not heard that term :)
If so, my issue is nothing like that, a bit of pitching would be fine by me.

The issue is really clearly 'bounce' or 'reverb' from the rear suspension, i.e. just like the dampening effect is simply not working I.e. stuffed shocks.


With mine there seems to be minimal pitching at any speed when fully loaded at just over 3.2t.
There will always be a little pitching if the roads a bit vague. I’ve had more weight than that on the back with a loaded car trailer, and it still behaved very well,,, even with no trailer brakes and a rather quick stop.
Two other things I’d be checking, is make sure your vans sitting level to start with, and if it’s an “off road” van, maybe have the suspension on that checked. If it’s on leaf springs, I’d think it wouldn’t be as critical. The last is how your brake controllers etc are set up,, making sure they’re compatible,,, not sure if that’s something to look out for, but I’d be checking to make sure.
With full air suspension, make sure you don’t use those hitch leveling units.

Brand new professionally installed red arc to pro elite, running on about 3.5 - 4.
Backing this right off made no difference.

It was sitting nose down, so have that corrected now and will be taking for a spin tomorrow, fingers crossed!
Plan on taking it past a weight bridge, then rover spares and and also a very good towbar guy for his opinion.


Hi,
I pull a 2.8ton van with my D4. It has near enough to 10% ball weight. Last time I weighed it it was 280kg on the ball. What pressure are you running in your tyres? This can have a major effect on how the van tows.
Mine tows really well.
LuckyLes

I started off with 42psi cold rear and 48 front, thats been my usual heavy load touring pressures.
Dropped it down to 36 cold front and 36 cold back
I have a TPMS so watched it closely, rears crept up to 38/39.
Mine are the 118 higher 118 load KO2's.
Any lower they'd be bagged out too much for my liking on long black top runs.
I do have the factory 19's, could try them, but I'd need darn near 50 psi to keep them from bagging out too far...

[ytt105]

Try something like 37 front 43 rear, as per factory recommendation.

The other trick, which is becoming highly recommended by the towing 'experts' is to drop the front a couple of psi if not using a WDH (WHICH YOU DON'T WITH DISCO AIR SUSPENSION).

I believe 36 in the rear is far too low!

[Dfornow]

This is just a suggestion from a 21' Bushtracker owner from 2005 to 2010. (If BT still use this idea. )
Crawl under the suspension and check the rubber stoppers on which the suspension pivots. Mine were always wearing out to the point of failure. I carried spares and tools for replacement. (I carried tools for almost every thing on the beast. breakages were every day [bigsad])

I always set-up the nose down a smidge. Towed ok after each change of rubbers.

happy travels.

[Tombie]

Yes, OK, I didn't explain that well. I was meaning is the vehicle level with the caravan attached?

It will always level out.

[DiscoJeffster]

It will always level out.

Exactly. It continues to pump air into the air springs until the height sensors report the required height.

[JamesAdelaide]

This is just a suggestion from a 21' Bushtracker owner from 2005 to 2010. (If BT still use this idea. )
Crawl under the suspension and check the rubber stoppers on which the suspension pivots. Mine were always wearing out to the point of failure. I carried spares and tools for replacement. (I carried tools for almost every thing on the beast. breakages were every day [bigsad])
I always set-up the nose down a smidge. Towed ok after each change of rubbers.
happy travels.

Thanks for the tips, the van is 6 months old and bushtracker did a service 1 week before I bought it, said pivot blocks in the simplicity suspension were fine, but I shall keep an eye on it.
Have the van hooked up for a run tomorrow with the DO35 hitch underslung on the drawbar, should level it out a bit, it was far too low on the run home from buying it in dubbo.



Try something like 37 front 43 rear, as per factory recommendation.
The other trick, which is becoming highly recommended by the towing 'experts' is to drop the front a couple of psi if not using a WDH (WHICH YOU DON'T WITH DISCO AIR SUSPENSION).
I believe 36 in the rear is far too low!
Yeah I always run a bit lower in the front. 36 cold ends up at 40-41 pretty fast and with ko2 and the very stiff sidewalls, 40 cold is very harsh, only makes the rear suspension work harder.
I've put them up to 36 front and 40 rear to test run tomorrow.

[DiscoJeffster]

Thanks for the tips, the van is 6 months old and bushtracker did a service 1 week before I bought it, said pivot blocks in the simplicity suspension were fine, but I shall keep an eye on it.
Have the van hooked up for a run tomorrow with the DO35 hitch underslung on the drawbar, should level it out a bit, it was far too low on the run home from buying it in dubbo.



Yeah I always run a bit lower in the front. 36 cold ends up at 40-41 pretty fast and with ko2 and the very stiff sidewalls, 40 cold is very harsh, only makes the rear suspension work harder.
I've put them up to 36 front and 40 rear to test run tomorrow.

I run 42 rear (Land Rover official max rear) even with a light camper and still find the tyre temp ends up near 50 hot. 36 front seems fine from my usage.

[Tombie]

I run 42 rear (Land Rover official max rear) even with a light camper and still find the tyre temp ends up near 50 hot. 36 front seems fine from my usage.

What tyre?

[DiscoJeffster]

What tyre?

Cooper LTZ 19”
I am talking 35-40deg C ambient up north WA.

[PeterJ]

Towed my 3250 kg van for 60,000km or so and have noticed a deterioration of the rear shock absorbers, it does pitch a bit at times, exactly what and when to do something about it is another question, thinking out loud, an auxiliary set of shocks that would be easy to change would be good, have not looked into changing the rear shock/air bag assy yet. [bigsad] By the way, the "10% rule" for ball weight is not really, it's not a bad guide line as a starting point, especially if you are towing 1500kg or less, but as you get up you can safely reduce that down to 7 or 8%, you need to be aware of how the van is towing.

Peter

[orville]

Not an expert but having just towed a van around the big lap the tyres will cop a beating. F
rom my experiences when I put more air in the tyres on bitumen there was less bounce.

Let them down on gravel, pump them up on the tar. I would think that with a big heavy caravan like yours the factory recommendations are not enough.
Jax tyres suggested 50 on the D4 rear, this is 55 hot. I think the D4 should be at least +5 from what it says on the decal on the door.

My experience is that the LH front cops it most from the road edges, I swapped it around.
I would think 45 or more cold on the van.

There is a algorithm for working out tyre pressure based on load if you do a search.

[JamesAdelaide]

Did a test run today with the van sitting more level (still down a but on the nose) and ti was better.
Then I went from 42 rear to 50 rear (coldish) and yeah , it got a lot better.
Very glad I went KO2's so I feel confident with these sort of pressures (Factory wranglers said 50 PSI max... KO2 is 85!)

Peter at Triumph Rover spares (d4 owner, tows massive car trailer and one heck of experience LR mechanic) came for a spin, said it felt fine to him, no issues at all.
he did say that there are various shocks in D4's, they changed over time, and the RR Sport has stiffer shocks again, but his advice was for the money, it would be marginal improvement.

So I think with a little more playing with hitch height (come up a bit more), try to slightly lower ball weight (280-300 IMO is a tad high) and keep pressures up, I think I wil be sweet!
I will stop looking at Amaroks and Crusiers on carsales now :)



Towed my 3250 kg van for 60,000km or so and have noticed a deterioration of the rear shock absorbers, it does pitch a bit at times, exactly what and when to do something about it is another question, thinking out loud, an auxiliary set of shocks that would be easy to change would be good, have not looked into changing the rear shock/air bag assy yet. [bigsad] By the way, the "10% rule" for ball weight is not really, it's not a bad guide line as a starting point, especially if you are towing 1500kg or less, but as you get up you can safely reduce that down to 7 or 8%, you need to be aware of how the van is towing.
Peter
Very good assessment I think on a 3 tonne van. Mine weighed this moring at 2.92, no kitchen gear/pantry/food/clothes, but with 360 litre water tanks full.



Not an expert but having just towed a van around the big lap the tyres will cop a beating.
From my experiences when I put more air in the tyres on bitumen there was less bounce. Let them down on gravel, pump them up on the tar.
I would think that with a big heavy caravan like yours the factory recommendations are not enough.Jax tyres suggested 50 on the D4 rear, this is 55 hot.
I think the D4 should be at least +5 from what it says on the decal on the door.
My experience is that the LH front cops it most from the road edges, I swapped it around.I would think 45 or more cold on the van.
There is a algorithm for working out tyre pressure based on load if you do a search.

Thanks mate, yeah I think I will start running 48-50 cold rear and 42 ish on front.
Having TPMS is super handy, FYI I went the safety dave one, reads the caravan no problems, very handy info and has saved me once already with an early warning.

[orville]

FYI I went the safety dave one, reads the caravan no problems.

Did you buy one with a screen or Android app? I have a gps already, too many screens!

[andrew53]

Hi Guys,

I am having some rear suspension dampening issues.

Vehicle is Disco 4 2016 with 50,000km. Compomotive 18’s with newish BFG KO2. 3rd row rear seats removed to save weight, cargo barrier, OL bulbar, rhino platform tray added. Using standard LR towbar.

Have just bought a second hand bushtracker van, 3 tonne loaded with water, but none of our gear (being confirmed this week on weigh bridge).

Ball weight 280kg measured on a set of SCA cheapie scales.
This is only going to get higher as we load the front generator box (genny + 2 jerrys)
Bushtracker are big on heavy nose weight, they are very against rear spare wheels, jerrys...

It was towing a bit too nose down, we’ve adjust hitch on van to level it up, yet to test.
So far have towed it from dubbo back home to Adelaide.



I’ve towed our camper trailer (1.4 tonne) and our 2 tonne boat heaps, no issues.

With the van however, the rear shocks just don't seem to be dampening well at all.
Hit a bit of undulation and there is a lot of ‘bounce’ in the arse.
On the smoother stuff it tows like a dream.

Tows really well other than that, van is not shunting, just a big dead weight and very stable.
The d4 engine and trans is a dream for the weight, trans in particular really shines using 6th and 7th well (wehere a 200 series would be revving its head off in 4th no doubt!).

Has anyone had similar issues, surely after 50,000 km my shocks are nit stuffed??
Anyone got pricing on shock changeover?

I am talking it for a test drive with Triumph rover sprees this week.


Before you spend your money I believe the answer is in how you load the van and a measurement taken from the van side at front and rear when loaded should be no more than around 30mm difference. Google "how to level a caravan for towing" . The van needs to be not front or rear heavy and if it is then the front very slightly more than the back and cars towing with their nose in the sky show that the van is incorrectly loaded and and also could be designed to have too much weight at the front.

[JamesAdelaide]

Before you spend your money I believe the answer is in how you load the van and a measurement taken from the van side at front and rear when loaded should be no more than around 30mm difference. Google "how to level a caravan for towing" . The van needs to be not front or rear heavy and if it is then the front very slightly more than the back and cars towing with their nose in the sky show that the van is incorrectly loaded and and also could be designed to have too much weight at the front.

Sorry mate but that's totally wrong, any trailer needs to be nose heavy to be stable on the road. Not nose DOWN, but 100% absolutely 5-10% nose heavy or it is downright dangerous to tow.

[GeoffH]

Sorry mate but that's totally wrong, any trailer needs to be nose heavy to be stable on the road. Not nose DOWN, but 100% absolutely 5-10% nose heavy or it is downright dangerous to tow.
Based on my own experience, for such a large van, you need to get the Caravan's drawbar as neutral on the D4 as possible.

I've recently completed a 1.5 year trip around Australia with my family using our 2015 TDV6 D4 tug, towing a 3.5T Kimberley T3 dual axle off-road variable suspension van - not unlike your Bush Tracker in physical size & weight.

We ended up moving to instal a Mitch hitch male-mount on the D4 in replace of the standard LR hitch mount (which is far too low for such a heavy & large van) and throughout the whole trip, we never had one issue with towing, stability, dampening, swaying or pitching. We did the Gibb River Rd, Birdsville Track and several other explorer tracks on our trip ...all without a single problem. The key to effortless towing with such a large and heavy van is to ensure you align the height of the van's draw bar to as equal (or near too) of that of your D4's hitching position as possible. This is why the MitchHitch (Mitchell Bros, Brookvale, Sydney) D4 hitching solution worked so well as it's fixing pint & alignment raises the hitch point equal to your rear bumper bar - almost equivalent to your BushT, & in our case, our Kimberley.

The rear dampening issues & pitching you mention is almost certainly caused by your "ball weight" and the angle of the drawbar attached. The standard LR 4 hitching point was purposefully designed as low as it is for the main (not sole) purpose of towing horse trailers and floats. If you have ever towed one of these trailers, then you would know they are (typically) much lower to the ground to allow horses to get on & off the trailer much easier - therefore the lower hitching point on the vehicle.

This design however did not put to much consideration into towing a large & heavy caravan with large wheels & off-roads tyres - hence the downward angle of your draw bar. Equal this all up and your D4 will have a new lease of life when towing. Good Luck...

[DiscoJeffster]

Lol. Would it more be aligned to standards, not that LR owners only tow horses???

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2006L03054/38e68a92-8b24-4483-b080-898e679d0662

Section 5.2.3.2.

[Tombie]

Lol. Would it more be aligned to standards, not that LR owners only tow horses???

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2006L03054/38e68a92-8b24-4483-b080-898e679d0662

Section 5.2.3.2.

Spot on!!!

Plenty of non-compliant vans in Australia!!

Look in the UK etc and they town heavy vans, but they’re all at a lower draw bar height.


It’s all well and good in Australia to have these offroad capable vans, but many don’t comply on multiple fronts.
Number plates, lighting, draw bar heights are amongst many things several manufacturers turn a blind eye to.

[Discodougie]

Hi James,

Ive got a D4 TD6 2015 with 50,000kms and towed a 2.8t caravan (with water tank filled only). The tow ball on my D4 is also a bit low causing the nose of the van to slightly dip but still no issues like you describe from the rear shocks.

Ive just bought a new offroad 2.8t tare caravan so will probably be 3250Kg when fully loaded --- do you think this would be pushing the tow limit or asking for trouble for a lap around aus....Im just a bit worried im too close to the towing limit???

Regards

I have a 2012 tdv6 with an off-roader weighing in at 3.2t loaded and 260kg on the ball. All up have done 150,000 and about 50,000 towing the van around Oz without any problems. Just remember to get your auto serviced.

[Discodougie]

Hi Guys,

I am having some rear suspension dampening issues.

Vehicle is Disco 4 2016 with 50,000km. Compomotive 18’s with newish BFG KO2. 3rd row rear seats removed to save weight, cargo barrier, OL bulbar, rhino platform tray added. Using standard LR towbar.

Have just bought a second hand bushtracker van, 3 tonne loaded with water, but none of our gear (being confirmed this week on weigh bridge).

Ball weight 280kg measured on a set of SCA cheapie scales.
This is only going to get higher as we load the front generator box (genny + 2 jerrys)
Bushtracker are big on heavy nose weight, they are very against rear spare wheels, jerrys...

It was towing a bit too nose down, we’ve adjust hitch on van to level it up, yet to test.
So far have towed it from dubbo back home to Adelaide.

I’ve towed our camper trailer (1.4 tonne) and our 2 tonne boat heaps, no issues.

With the van however, the rear shocks just don't seem to be dampening well at all.
Hit a bit of undulation and there is a lot of ‘bounce’ in the arse.
On the smoother stuff it tows like a dream.

Tows really well other than that, van is not shunting, just a big dead weight and very stable.
The d4 engine and trans is a dream for the weight, trans in particular really shines using 6th and 7th well (wehere a 200 series would be revving its head off in 4th no doubt!).

Has anyone had similar issues, surely after 50,000 km my shocks are nit stuffed??
Anyone got pricing on shock changeover?

I am talking it for a test drive with Triumph rover sprees this week.

Is that TR Spares in Adelaide? Don’t be upsold!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

What suspension is under your Bushtracker?

[Fatso]

Lol. Would it more be aligned to standards, not that LR owners only tow horses???

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2006L03054/38e68a92-8b24-4483-b080-898e679d0662

Section 5.2.3.2.

Probably why jayco off road vans have the hitch aligned with the bottom of the van draw bar and not the top . I also wonder how many drivers actualy load their tug to its max gross ignoring the 350Kg weight you can put on a tugs arse , have seen some huge vans bieng towed by tugs loaded up to the hilt including roof racks .

[JamesAdelaide]

What suspension is under your Bushtracker?
Simplicity dual wheel load sharing suspension. Quite impressive the articulation and sits very stable on the road.
I overtook several jayco's on my way home with it from dubbo to adelaide :)


I have a 2012 tdv6 with an off-roader weighing in at 3.2t loaded and 260kg on the ball. All up have done 150,000 and about 50,000 towing the van around Oz without any problems. Just remember to get your auto serviced.
Yeah, def have that on the cards at 70-80k
I think I am just paying far too much attention to the way the rear handles bumps... I think suspension is a fairly personal thing, I just need to pay a little less attention...
It just doesn't feel as rock solid as previous live axle and independent coil 4wd's I've towed with, but I suppose air suspension is always going to feel a tad different.
Have yet to tow with the 4wd loaded etc too, so need to get away for a few short trips to really test it out.

The engine/trans/stability when towing are ridiculously good...


Is that TR Spares in Adelaide? Don’t be upsold!
Ha, yeah they actually said don't spend anything... but I here you.
They sure are better than the dealers though...

[JamesAdelaide]

Based on my own experience, for such a large van, you need to get the Caravan's drawbar as neutral on the D4 as possible.

I've recently completed a 1.5 year trip around Australia with my family using our 2015 TDV6 D4 tug, towing a 3.5T Kimberley T3 dual axle off-road variable suspension van - not unlike your Bush Tracker in physical size & weight.

We ended up moving to instal a Mitch hitch male-mount on the D4 in replace of the standard LR hitch mount (which is far too low for such a heavy & large van) and throughout the whole trip, we never had one issue with towing, stability, dampening, swaying or pitching. We did the Gibb River Rd, Birdsville Track and several other explorer tracks on our trip ...all without a single problem. The key to effortless towing with such a large and heavy van is to ensure you align the height of the van's draw bar to as equal (or near too) of that of your D4's hitching position as possible. This is why the MitchHitch (Mitchell Bros, Brookvale, Sydney) D4 hitching solution worked so well as it's fixing pint & alignment raises the hitch point equal to your rear bumper bar - almost equivalent to your BushT, & in our case, our Kimberley.

The rear dampening issues & pitching you mention is almost certainly caused by your "ball weight" and the angle of the drawbar attached. The standard LR 4 hitching point was purposefully designed as low as it is for the main (not sole) purpose of towing horse trailers and floats. If you have ever towed one of these trailers, then you would know they are (typically) much lower to the ground to allow horses to get on & off the trailer much easier - therefore the lower hitching point on the vehicle.

This design however did not put to much consideration into towing a large & heavy caravan with large wheels & off-roads tyres - hence the downward angle of your draw bar. Equal this all up and your D4 will have a new lease of life when towing. Good Luck...

Hey Geoff, thanks for the thoughts, sounds like you had an amazing trip.
I think you might be right, D4 does not need as much nose weight as maybe a traditional 4wd, but let's face it Bushtracker know their stuff and they are very firm on nose heavy being the safest option in the event of an emergency manoeuvre. It The 5-10% nose weight is a pretty widely accepted rule.
I will definitely try removing the spare wheels and emptying front water tanks and see what it does.
Bushtracker are strongly opposed to rear mounted spares due to pendulum effect, but our is a short van, I think it will be fine and is worth consideration.

Re hitch height, I have now got it sitting pretty level, could probably go up another 40mm.
At the moment it is setup with the do35 hitch underslung, standard LR receiver in the upside down position.
I will get another receiver hitch made up with 40mm more lift and the van will be dead level.
I am putting a hold on any larger spending until I am sure this will work, i.e. mitch hitch vs what I have now is really only a clearance issue, the drawdar is at (or will be) the right height.

There are a few bushtracker owners in adelaide with D4's I think, so I will touch base with them too.

Thanks again for all the thoughts.

[Graeme]

The 5-10% nose weight is a pretty widely accepted rule.There is a huge difference between 5% and 10% of 3.5T on the coupling and therefore rear springs and shocks.

[GeoffH]

Hi James - glad to hear you found it useful.

The BushTracker are great vans and these types of high clearance off-road vans require a little more thinking (which you are doing which is the right thing to do) to align and hitch them properly to any 4x4 and especially the D4.

We initially had similar load & weight issues with our 3.5T Kimberley when we first took delivery of it. Getting the draw bar much higher (@150mm) and aligned solved most of the ball weight, pitching and braking issues. As you probably know, getting as much as the movable in-van weight over the vans rear axles as possible, will also help as we'll as finding the right tyre pressures for your set up. Balancing water in your various tanks can also help.

In terms of the D4 hitch point, we replaced our standard D4 with a Mitchell Bros 4x4 version.

I have attached a photo I took of our's today which is now 2.5 years old and proudly sporting powder coating flakes and chips from the amount of off-road towing we've done over the past two years. You'll first notice how high this unit sits on the vehicle and with a van like your (& ours), makes the whole hitching, unhitching and towing experience at lot more pleasurable and safer. There are other solutions - even imitations, but i can recommend this one and bumped into other D3/4 users of them on our various outback trips. The power coating could be better, but that is more about aesthetics than function.

Anyway, perhaps something else to consider if you cant find the right solution for your BT in Adelaide.

Cheers, Geoff

[Tombie]

They sure are better than the dealers though...

You need to build a better relationship with the dealer then!

I get better pricing from the dealer!

[TrustyRusty]

I have a 2012 tdv6 with an off-roader weighing in at 3.2t loaded and 260kg on the ball. All up have done 150,000 and about 50,000 towing the van around Oz without any problems. Just remember to get your auto serviced.

Thanks for your reply Discodougie - that's really good to know and gives me peace of mind knowing it shouldnt be a problem towing a weighty off road van for the big lap in 6 weeks time....cant wait!

[JamesAdelaide]

You need to build a better relationship with the dealer then!

I get better pricing from the dealer!

So you get a service for $450 from solitaire in adelaide? Sorry but I doubt it...
The senior guys at TRS know way more than solitaire guys about the D4.

[Tombie]

So you get a service for $450 from solitaire in adelaide? Sorry but I doubt it...
The senior guys at TRS know way more than solitaire guys about the D4.

If that is what you choose to believe.

[JamesAdelaide]

If that is what you choose to believe.

Nice dodge of my question, how much do you pay at solitaire adelaide for a basic service?

so far in my experience sovereign, TRS and PCB ALL know a lot more than solitaire about land ribers...

solitaire said "you are fine with 26,000km oil changes", what a crock of BS...

[DiscoJeffster]

Nice dodge of my question, how much do you pay at solitaire adelaide for a basic service?

so far in my experience sovereign, TRS and PCB ALL know a lot more than solitaire about land ribers...

solitaire said "you are fine with 26,000km oil changes", what a crock of BS...

Hi James. What do you use to determine that a 26,000km oil change “is a crock of ****?”. Enlighten me please. Is it the engine lasting 200,000km, 300,000km or 1,000,000km?
What are your success factors? Have you any?

[Tombie]

Nice dodge of my question, how much do you pay at solitaire adelaide for a basic service?

so far in my experience sovereign, TRS and PCB ALL know a lot more than solitaire about land ribers...

solitaire said "you are fine with 26,000km oil changes", what a crock of BS...

Well... you made 2 quotes... I didn’t dodge it at all.
I just chose to let you believe what you will...


Should I also mention the complimentary current model vehicle I get every time? The comprehensive detail and wash I get each time? I think that’s a sign of great service value - even on the longer services where we dropped it in Friday, took the loan vehicle home for the weekend and came back the following week... (btw we live in Whyalla)

I’ve had dealings with all 3 you name... none will ever mechanically work on my current vehicles.

I’ve had things done on previous vehicles that one of those above said couldn’t/shouldn’t/wouldn’t work...

As for your brash statement on oil changes; I do oil analysis, regularly, your Crock claim is incorrect in my application. In many actually... the old “oil is cheap” adage could be applied, but why waste it? Most people don’t have a ****ing clue.

[DiscoJeffster]

What frustrates me is that there is a denial that things progress. I admit many of the changes in longevity are driven by environmental needs, but to presume just because the EU mandate extended intervals, doesn’t mean they just extend them. Oil manufacturers are tasked in parallel to improve the product to sustain such intervals. Not sure chicken or egg, but to assume the oil cannot take it is hog wash. Now if you follow the arduous schedule because you tow or go outback then by all means change more regularly, but if you’re a city dweller, rest assured modern oils will survive the recommended duration.

[101RRS]

Now if you follow the arduous schedule because you tow or go outback then by all means change more regularly, but if you’re a city dweller, rest assured modern oils will survive the recommended duration.

Hmmm stop start city commute is considered arduous [thumbsupbig]

"More frequent attention may be necessary if the vehicle is subject to
stop/start operation, extremes of temperature, dusty conditions, off road driving or frequent towing
of trailers"

[cripesamighty]

So basically, nearly the whole of Australia! Ha Ha

[Tombie]

As long as you get it up to temp and blow the soot out of it regularly it’s pretty good!!!

[BobD]

It sounds worse than it actually is. In later vehicles hot driving is defined as long periods of constant high speeds in 50 degrees or above.

Stop start would be your constant trips to the shops with no long running or even warm up I think, but who knows.

Both my RRV and D4 are only used for towing and off road so I use the arduous service schedule and then some additional work like regular transmission oil changes.

My DS is my wife's car and is used for everything that doesn't need one of the others, including some country trips. It has just about reached 24 months old (April) but tells me it needs a service at about every 14,000km, which I follow since I assume it is the diluted oil issue in the Ingenium motors. Never any issue with the DPF sooting up though because it does do quite a lot of km at 100 kph as well as the shorter runs. The dealer tells me not to worry and let it go for the 34,000km service interval but I can't ignore what it is telling me so I get the oil changed.

[JamesAdelaide]

Hi James. What do you use to determine that a 26,000km oil change “is a crock of ****?”. Enlighten me please. Is it the engine lasting 200,000km, 300,000km or 1,000,000km?
What are your success factors? Have you any?

I just personally believe 4 oil changes in 104,000 km is not worth the risk.
Such long intervals are well known marketing technique.
I guess if you literally drive your d4 stock and to the shops and back all good, but anyone who actually uses their D4 for touring/4wding/towing would be very brave to do 26k oil changes.
Just my opinion, no facts, feels pretty obvious to me.

[JamesAdelaide]

Well... you made 2 quotes... I didn’t dodge it at all.
I just chose to let you believe what you will...


Should I also mention the complimentary current model vehicle I get every time? The comprehensive detail and wash I get each time? I think that’s a sign of great service value - even on the longer services where we dropped it in Friday, took the loan vehicle home for the weekend and came back the following week... (btw we live in Whyalla)

I’ve had dealings with all 3 you name... none will ever mechanically work on my current vehicles.

I’ve had things done on previous vehicles that one of those above said couldn’t/shouldn’t/wouldn’t work...

As for your brash statement on oil changes; I do oil analysis, regularly, your Crock claim is incorrect in my application. In many actually... the old “oil is cheap” adage could be applied, but why waste it? Most people don’t have a ****ing clue.

I'm not trying to have a go, but you have not answered the query, you said your price was actually better than TRS, so what are you paying at Solitaire for a regular service?
I am paying $480 inc GST, free loan car.
Solitaire wanted nearly double...
It takes 2 seconds to work out why, very fancy setup, lot of overheads.
No "detail". FYI I would hardly call what they do a detail, a quick vac and wash? Their technique for cleaning I would never use, guaranteed swirl marks.

Oh, it helps also having a mate who was a mechanic at solitaire for 4 years and strongly advised going elsewhere...

James

[Tombie]

I’d suggest my statement about “never allowing them to work on my vehicles again” would be sufficient. My experiences have me at that point.

I don’t care how much it costs!

My last service was $550 btw. Genuine filters and oil.

[BMKal]

My last service was $550 btw. Genuine filters and oil.

Not bad. I've got a receipt sitting here for my recent service - $742 all inclusive.
But then it was back in there a week later for a new water pump, costing another $584 (installed). They identified a leak during the service.

They've also tested my batteries and found -
Cranking battery (Varta) - 971 CCA
Auxiliary battery (Optima) - 278 CCA
and have recommended that I replace the Optima (quoted $591). I haven't done anything about this yet - will probably look around to see what options are available and what prices.

All done at the local ARB shop - which is also the licenced RAC service centre - and the owners are Land Rover fanatics. The only thing they could not do on the day was re-set the service warning message on the dash. It took a day or two for their tech to find out how to do it, and when he rang me to get the vehicle back in there for a couple of minutes to re-set it, I told him that I had already done it at home using the GAP tool.

They are the only business in Kalgoorlie I would take my Disco to, plus an owner / operator tyre place in Boulder. He also knows a fair bit about Land Rovers, including the need to put them in TTM for wheel alignment etc. He won't do wheel alignments on these vehicles unless the owner has access to a GAP tool or similar, and can put the vehicle in TTM for the procedure (he has used mine for a couple of his regular clients' vehicles).

For my next service (~130,000 km) I think I'll probably have to go down to Perth, as the transmission service and new sump should be about due. Will do a bit of checking up on this, but not sure who to take it to. Until the most recent service, all work on this D4 has been done by the dealer I bought it from (Barbagallo). I have never had any problem with their work and service - but they are not cheap. And they do provide a loan vehicle, which is a significant factor for me to consider, as I need wheels to get around in when I am down in Perth.

[Ferret]

...They've also tested my batteries and found -
Cranking battery (Varta) - 971 CCA
Auxiliary battery (Optima) - 278 CCA
and have recommended that I replace the Optima (quoted $591). I haven't done anything about this yet - will probably look around to see what options are available and what prices.

Spent yesterday sorting out some cranking battery issues I have had over the last couple of months. Long story short - cranking battery (Varta) would seem all OK then suddenly die. Charge and repeat the behaviour. After charging and resting for 24 hours I could never get it to fail on my own battery load tester (100 amp).

Finally sick of it after another flat battery Tuesday night. Charged it and took it in to where I bought it ~12 months ago (Goodchild). They load tested it and say it's OK but the young fellow testing it says his a bit confused about things because the Varta is only rated at 850 CCA and tester says its got 950 CCA.

So another load tester is found and it's again pronounced good. I ague the toss a bit and yet another load tester is produced. And it passes again. The boss says I must have some sort of intermittent parasitic current draw to experience the behaviour I report so it can't be the battery.

Then right on cue the dash lights up with a low battery warning, the load tester is hooked up again and the battery falls on it's arse big time. So a new battery is dropped in under warranty.

All bit off topic but thought I'd mention it because my Varta was load tested at 950 CCA too and 30 - 40 mins later it's pronounced defective.

And BTW, last Yellow Top I bought at Goodchild was $299. Bought it at the some time I bought the Varta ~12 months ago so I'd give them a call for a price before forking out ~$600. You could drive to Perth and back and still be in front for that sort of money.

Edit: If you have a valid WA seniors card you will get 10% off that too.

[eddy]

Brian, definitely give Goodchild Enterprises a call 94177033 they are in Pusey rd,Cockburn.Global Automatics 94343718 down the road from them in Barrington St did the flush on my vehicle using Lifeguard6 oil bought from Repco.I bought the steel sump on ebay from furious performance.If you are in Osborne Park try Precision Automatics 92011269 for the flush,walking distance from Barbagallos in Ruse St.

[BMKal]

And BTW, last Yellow Top I bought at Goodchild was $299. Bought it at the some time I bought the Varta ~12 months ago so I'd give them a call for a price before forking out ~$600. You could drive to Perth and back and still be in front for that sort of money.

Edit: If you have a valid WA seniors card you will get 10% off that too.


Brian, definitely give Goodchild Enterprises a call 94177033 they are in Pusey rd,Cockburn.Global Automatics 94343718 down the road from them in Barrington St did the flush on my vehicle using Lifeguard6 oil bought from Repco.I bought the steel sump on ebay from furious performance.If you are in Osborne Park try Precision Automatics 92011269 for the flush,walking distance from Barbagallos in Ruse St.

Thanks for that. All good options. I think I will definitely leave the Optima until I go down to Perth for next service - it is still working OK on the odd occasion that I need it and have the fridge in the car (I also have an Engel battery pack in the back with the fridge) so there is no rush to replace the Optima immediately. Definitely more attractive than paying the "Kalgoorlie Tax" on a replacement battery. I have only recently replaced the cranking battery with a Varta, purchased on line from a supplier recommended on here. Very happy with that - it is performing way better than the el-cheapo that was in previously.

And as for a valid WA seniors card ................... I'm not that old - yet. At least I don't think I am - how old do you need to be to get one of these ???

[Ferret]

And as for a valid WA seniors card ................... I'm not that old - yet. At least I don't think I am - how old do you need to be to get one of these ???

WA Seniors Card Eligibility (https://www.seniorscard.wa.gov.au/eligibility/)


GoodChild 10% off Battery Products (https://seniorscard.wa.gov.au/discounts/discount-details/?id=63045cb7-8f34-e711-80ec-000d3ae07082)

[BMKal]

WA Seniors Card Eligibility (https://www.seniorscard.wa.gov.au/eligibility/)


GoodChild 10% off Battery Products (https://seniorscard.wa.gov.au/discounts/discount-details/?id=63045cb7-8f34-e711-80ec-000d3ae07082)

Thanks for that. Only a few months to go and I will be eligible, at least on the age side of things. And I'm sure I can arrange my work so that I meet the requirement on weekly hours worked by then too. So, looks like a new battery in December or early in the new year, and hopefully get a bit knocked off my rates and water bills next year as well. [bigsmile]