Clutch problem on Series 1 80", 1956

[Tim Patkin]

I'm a very new participant in this forum, and hoping for some advice and/or direction regarding a clutch issue. In brief, the clutch pedal goes to the floor and doesn't allow the clutch to engage/disengage gears. Unbelievably, this happened on the way to get a roadworthy, and luckily I was able to get home, changing gears, matching revs with gear speed etc, on what I believe is the 'crash' principle!
On investigating, the pedal is doing a reasonable job, though there is some wear. It rotates the cross shaft through to where it enters the bell housing by approximately 5, possibly 10 degrees maximum. Some improvement can be made by re bushing the pedal, and sorting some play where bolts have been substituted for the steel pins that are meant to go through the cross shaft for the clutch. I was hoping it might have been one of these pins being sheared that was the problem, but no, nothing so simple! My questions are:
1. Should I be thinking the problem is inside the bell housing, possibly where the cross shaft attaches to the operating fork?
2. If so, is this something a 'handy' home mechanic could tackle? Is it possible to detach the bell housing and withdrawal race housing, in order to investigate whats happening inside?
3. If not, could someone suggest a mechanic who might be familiar with Series 1 clutches, preferably in the South or Southeast of Melbourne, as I'm near Hastings, on the Mornington Peninsula?
In anticipation, many thanks for any responses.
Cheers,
Tim.

[JDNSW]

The two pins connecting the pedal shaft to the clutch withdrawal shaft are by far the most likely source of the problem you have. The system, to work, must have very little free play (no) here. Replacing the hardened pins with bolts is never a good idea, as even if the bolts do not shear in two, they will deform and give lost motion. If you must use bolts temporarily, use very hard ones such as allen screws, and they need to match the holes.

Also, check the joining sleeve for damage - they have been known to split, and again, they cannot be satisfactorily replaced by a home made tube as they are hardened.

There are other possible issues inside the gearbox or the clutch housing, but they are unlikely to be the issue.

[Tim Patkin]

Thanks, John, for your thoughts. Yes, there is some play or distortion in the bolts that apparently have been substituted for hardened pins in the cross shaft. However, pretty much most of the pedal travel is effectively transfered to the rotation of the cross shaft. I guess a logical approach would be to sort that play, and see if that rectifies the problem.
I'm wondering, though, if that doesnt fix it, what else might be the cause. Whether its relevant to this, I would occasionally get a 'screeching' sound from the clutch, which would cease the moment I depressed the clutch pedal. Might any other Series 1 people be able to offer some ideas?
Again, in anticipation, thanks.
Tim.

[1950landy]

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I would think that something is wrong in the hardened tube & pins circled in blue in my 1st photo, unless something major has gone wrong with the pressure plate & it has collapsed . It doesn't take much wear in the holes & pins to cause a big difference in the peddle operation. I replaced the tube & pins on my 80" last year , before replacing them the peddle would only go 1/2 way down & now i have full peddle travel. Also if you do replace the pins with bolts they need to be extremely hard , I fitted some bolts in mine a few years back & they only lasted for a couple of peddle operations & one sheared off. The throw out bearing mechanism is pretty fool proof & is splined to the shaft , I think something else would brake before the splines tore out.

[JDNSW]

Apart from what I said about the coupling, and 1950Landy saying virtually the same thing, there is nothing that is at all likely to go wrong with the release mechanism - while a bearing failure is possible, it is extremely unlikely as it runs inside the gearbox and is well lubricated. The only other possibilities are that the clutch driven plate has failed in a way that prevents it fully disengaging, such as a lining buckling, or the adjustment has come loose on one of the release levers on the pressure plate. While possible, these are unlikely.

And, I assume you know that it is possible to view the clutch mechanism inside the bell housing by removing the gearlever support, which uncovers a small window.

[B.S.F.]

Tim, is your Land rover an 80" (48-53) or an 88" (56-58) ?
.W.

[Tim Patkin]

Many thanks JDNSW, WIZARD, & BSF. Problem sorted!
Yesterday I removed the floor boards so I could get a good look, and yes there was the remains of a bolt, apparently in place of the hardened pin, through the connecting shaft where it enters the clutch housing. I found a similar size pin, and as a check, placed it back in position, and the clutch pedal once again allowed engagement of gears.
My plan is now to source the two hardened pins, and overhaul the bushes for the clutch and brake pedals. Does anyone have a recommendation for sourcing these parts, hopefully in Victoria? Also, what is involved in replacing the pedal bushes? Do they need to be pressed out, and back in again, or can that be done carefully on the work bench?
Once again, thanks guys, for your help.
Tim.
ps In answer to WIZZARD, yes it is an 88".

[russellrovers]

Many thanks JDNSW, WIZARD, & BSF. Problem sorted!
Yesterday I removed the floor boards so I could get a good look, and yes there was the remains of a bolt, apparently in place of the hardened pin, through the connecting shaft where it enters the clutch housing. I found a similar size pin, and as a check, placed it back in position, and the clutch pedal once again allowed engagement of gears.
My plan is now to source the two hardened pins, and overhaul the bushes for the clutch and brake pedals. Does anyone have a recommendation for sourcing these parts, hopefully in Victoria? Also, what is involved in replacing the pedal bushes? Do they need to be pressed out, and back in again, or can that be done carefully on the work bench?
Once again, thanks guys, for your help.
Tim.
ps In answer to WIZZARD, yes it is an 88".hi tim iam also looking for the 2 pinsif you find a supplier can you please let me know regards jim

[JDNSW]

The pins are the same up to the end of Series 2a production, and should be readily available from any of the suppliers of Series parts such as Four Wheel Drives. Also, you could give Fred Smith a call.
Alternatively, measure the diameter and length required, and go to any fastener specialist.

[chazza]

...
My plan is now to source the two hardened pins, and overhaul the bushes for the clutch and brake pedals. Does anyone have a recommendation for sourcing these parts, hopefully in Victoria? Also, what is involved in replacing the pedal bushes? Do they need to be pressed out, and back in again, or can that be done carefully on the work bench?
...
Tim.
ps In answer to WIZZARD, yes it is an 88".

i bought the tube and pins from Dunsfold Land Rovers in the UK.

I am not sure about the 88" but it looks a similar setup to the 80"; the pedals need to be removed and the shaft withdrawn – which sounds easy but with rusted and broken parts and difficult access, can be tricky – then the old bushes need to be removed. If the shaft is worn you will need to have it repaired or replaced.

The new bushes – also from Dunsfold – can be pressed into the chassis with a homemade screw type tool, but then the bushes need to be reamed until the shaft can slide and rotate nicely. I bought an expandable reamer to do the job.

Allow a weekend to the job, when you have all of the spares and tools ready,

Cheers Charlie

[chazza]

Forgot to mention, that the cotter-pins that hold the pedals in place had to drilled out on my car; I made new ones but it would be wise to buy new ones in anticipation,

Cheers Charlie

[B.S.F.]

Those pins with split pins as per S1 parts manual can be a pain to replace, unless the gear box is on the bench. I use the later pins with R-clips, they're easy to insert with long nose pliers.
.W.

[B.S.F.]

Forgot to mention, that the cotter-pins that hold the pedals in place had to drilled out on my car; I made new ones but it would be wise to buy new ones in anticipation,

Cheers Charlie
We're talking about a 56 88" model. I believe they don't have cotter pins.
.W.