Unseized hp 179

[Dark61]

I managed to get the engine turning again with liberal doses of diesel. Turns over on the starter with no plugs in. Plugs in and starter doesnt want to turn. Rocker cover off and can see one of the push rods and valve arms? loose - becoming real tight when turning the engine with some bolts in the HB. Aplogies if terminology incorrect - not looked this far into an engine before. I’m going to get the head off and take a look but any ideas on whats going on?
All comments apreciated as usual.cheers,
D

[rangieman]

Does the Dizzy spin when the motor is turned over.
Also with the rocker cover off do the valves and push rods go up and down[bighmmm]

[Dark61]

Thanks for replying.
Yes dizzy spins and valves and push rods go up and down. The third set of valves from the front ( from memory) either the first or second ( memory failing!) - the rocker arm and push rod is very loose and then becomes stiff around one and three quarters turn on the HB from tdc on cylinder one. This coincides with a much greater effort needed to turn the engine. I dont have anything on that engine, but looking at a generic diagram - i am struggling to guess whats going on.
cheers,
D

[bee utey]

Rusted or bent valve stem. Try spraying the upper part of the valve stem liberally with penetrating oil and tapping the valve stem firmly with a small hammer. You can also take the manifolds off and spray stuff on the exposed stem there. Or just pull the head off and have a proper look.

[whitehillbilly64]

Did these motors have the fibre timing gears ?
My 186 had them, upgrade was to Alloy ones.
Remember fibre ones caused problems, cant remember why.

whitehillbilly

[scarry]

Did these motors have the fibre timing gears ?
My 186 had them, upgrade was to Alloy ones.
Remember fibre ones caused problems, cant remember why.

whitehillbilly

Fibre ones break,strip the teeth.
Alloys ones are better but are often noisey.

[Dark61]

Finally found some time to get the head off.
first two cylinders evidence of rust , others look ok.At this point everything appears to turn fine.
is this salvageable? Can anyone advise on what to do next please? I will get the head dismantled and take a look at the valves etc, but should I be squirting liberal doses of wd40 in the cylinders/ cleaning them somehow? This is not a getting it back on the road restoration, just using it around the place to collect wood etc.
all comments gratefully received as usual.
cheers,
D

[PhilipA]

Block looks good with a bit of emery, although would have to see where pistons have been sitting.
The head looks like it has at least one and maybe several stuck or bent valves.

You should remove the valves and see if bent, or maybe just stuck. You can tell a mildly bent valve as when you try to lap it, it will not lap all around the rim on the valve itself which sits in the seat..

They are probably just stuck as the timing would have to be out for a valve to hit a piston and there would be marks on the piston .
These engines have hydraulic lifters which need oil pressure to pump up . That is probably the reason that some pushrods are loose.
It remains to be seen if they are OK after what looks like a long time. You may need a new set.
Regards Philip A

[LRJim]

How much effort and time do you wanna put into it?
There's one running for $200 with a holden box, I know what I'd be doing.
It would be a good learning curve for you to get it running of course so its not a waste of time in the end. http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/north-shore/engine-engine-parts-transmission/holden-179/1190480808

Cheers Jim

[Homestar]

Looks like there's a valve stuck in the head - it isn't seated properly. Salvageable - yes, but with work and money, probably a fair bit depending on what you're wanting from it. Given that I couldn't give away a good running 202 a couple of years back, I'd chuck that one personally and find a runner for a carton of beer or something to be honest. The 179HP wasn't a great engine to start with really and not that sort after but you may be able to swap it for someone who's mates down the pub told them it is a rare or desirable variant.

[pop058]

Contrary to popular belief, the 179 block and the 179HP blocks are the same block. They are not all that rare so if that one is cactus, another should not be that hard to find.

[Vern]

Contrary to popular belief, the 179 block and the 179HP blocks are the same block. They are not all that rare so if that one is cactus, another should not be that hard to find.From my days of playing with holden reds, i was to believe the hp had a steel crank and thicker bores.

[donh54]

Try it on ebay/gumtree. Someone doing up an old EH or HD might be interested enough to pay a box of beer, or even two! [bigsmile]

[pop058]

From my days of playing with holden reds, i was to believe the hp had a steel crank and thicker bores.

All 6's had steel cranks upto around the HR IIRC.

Not sure how the bore walls could be thicker if they are the same bore from the same casting mould. ?

[Dark61]

Thanks Gents. I’ll clean everything up , take a look at the valves and keep an eye out for a runner. Its more about the learning process for me - but not at any cost!
Would the 202 or 186 just drop in or would there be further adapter work involved does anyone know?
cheers,
D

[Homestar]

Straight drop in for the 202 and 186.

[PhilipA]

BUT 202 and 186 are reputed to not rev as well as a 179 and don't like the revs with LR low gearing at highway speed.
Of course ideal would be a 12 port head engine from a VE? Commodore

Regards Philip A

[Blknight.aus]

Thanks Gents. I’ll clean everything up , take a look at the valves and keep an eye out for a runner. Its more about the learning process for me - but not at any cost!
Would the 202 or 186 just drop in or would there be further adapter work involved does anyone know?
cheers,
D

how nasty do you want to be making it run?

bottle brush hone in the bores with the pistons still in. pull the bend valves and jig them true with a lathe chuck ( do that in someone you dont like's lathe)

pack the lifters with turntable grease and your up.

[bee utey]

Blimey, don't make this harder than it needs to be. Red motors don't usually bend valves from piston contact. Liberally dose the bores with light oil and spin the motor over on the starter. The head can be as easy or as hard as you like. Spray penetrating oil liberally into the ports and tap each valve at the spring end with a medium hammer. If they're slightly stuck just tap away and oil until they're free. Or go the whole hog and dismantle the valves and do a valve grind with some lapping paste. One head gasket set, give the head and block faces a good clean and chuck it back together. Whatever you do don't spend up on outsourced labour, so long as it runs it'll do for your purposes.

[Homestar]

BUT 202 and 186 are reputed to not rev as well as a 179 and don't like the revs with LR low gearing at highway speed.
Of course ideal would be a 12 port head engine from a VE? Commodore

Regards Philip A

So they say, but I've run both a 202 and 186 in series landies and they run and rev fine in this application IMO.

[loanrangie]

Vk black motor had the 12 port head.

There is an old bloke in our local car club that was an engineer at holden during the red motor introduction, I will ask him about the HP motors when I see him next.
I have a 179 HP block motor in my fc holden.

[rick130]

So they say, but I've run both a 202 and 186 in series landies and they run and rev fine in this application IMO.Yep.
One of my uncle's fitted a nicely built 186 into his Series 3 and it worked well.
Never an issue on the freeway, he would cruise at well above the posted limit, but even the original 2.25 was capable of going above 130km/h after he freed up the induction and exhaust sides of the engine.
He did have a Fairey overdrive and he had to be careful with rear axles. [emoji23]

[Bigbjorn]

BUT 202 and 186 are reputed to not rev as well as a 179 and don't like the revs with LR low gearing at highway speed.
Of course ideal would be a 12 port head engine from a VE? Commodore

Regards Philip A

In about 1967 I ran an EH 149 in Showroom Stock class at Lowood. It would rev happily to 6200 on hydraulic lifters.

[Dark61]

More than a few are in a bad way so encouraged by the relative ease by which the manifold studs came out i thought onwards and upwards. Oooeer! Are they pressed in ? I think they are. Consulting some half arsed manual it says “ interference fit”.
Back to the drawing board, wrenching on a couple for a quarter of an hour was doing my hernia no good at all! Things you learn.

cheers,

D

[Dark61]

Everything else looks ok.

cheers,
D

[ian4002000]

If you need a high performance 186 let me know.
My series 3 came with a balanced 186 with a 12 port head and roller rockers, It ran very nicely and was very quiet. It has a mild cam and will enjoy highway speeds in a Land Rover

Ian
Bittern

[1950landy]

I managed to get the engine turning again with liberal doses of diesel. Turns over on the starter with no plugs in. Plugs in and starter doesnt want to turn. Rocker cover off and can see one of the push rods and valve arms? loose - becoming real tight when turning the engine with some bolts in the HB. Aplogies if terminology incorrect - not looked this far into an engine before. I’m going to get the head off and take a look but any ideas on whats going on?
All comments apreciated as usual.cheers,
D
If motor has not run for quite a while the hydraulic lifters will have blead off you need to crank the motor with the plugs out untill the lifters fill with oil so valves will open fully . Same goese with a new motor the lifters will need filling before cranking with plugs in or you can bend push rods. From memory the rocker studs are pressed into the head .

[rangieman]

If motor has not run for quite a while the hydraulic lifters will have blead off you need to crank the motor with the plugs out untill the lifters fill with oil so valves will open fully . Same goese with a new motor the lifters will need filling before cranking with plugs in or you can bend push rods. From memory the rocker studs are pressed into the head .
Good practise was to soak lifters in engine oil before fitting ,

I have even seen people support lifters and depress the guts to get oil into them .

Also most engines you were able to remove the dissy and make a adaptor to drive the oil pump with a drill to get oil around and through engine gallery`s [wink11]

[mick88]

Good practise was to soak lifters in engine oil before fitting ,

I have even seen people support lifters and depress the guts to get oil into them .

Also most engines you were able to remove the dissy and make a adaptor to drive the oil pump with a drill to get oil around and through engine gallery`s [wink11]


I use one of these pump bottles to circulate oil through a new motor.
Just remove the pressure switch and screw a fitting in, then pump a litre or two through it.
Then add more oil to the engine to bring the sump level up to the correct mark on the dipstick.

Cheers, Mick.

[Bigbjorn]

[QUOTE=1950landy;2854092 From memory the rocker studs are pressed into the head .[/QUOTE]

That is correct. The studs are a press fit in the pedestals. Easily removed if you get a bit of round bar cut to a length halfway up the threaded section of the stud from the pedestal, drill it to a close fit over the stud and put a nut on the stud and wind the stud out of the pedestal. For my race engines i would tap a thread in the pedestal and use a screw-in stud with Loctite.

[mick88]

Everything else looks ok.

cheers,
D

Dark,
did you end up going ahead with this donk?
They can have a nylon drive gear on the bottom of the dizzy (some are metal) and these become very brittle and bust to pieces, they are only about two bob each and easy enough fit.
Might save you a walk home, then again that wouldn't be all that far from home I suppose.
The 179 were a good old banger and go pretty well, the "HP" were just the early version of them, introduced into the EH series Holden's which at the time only had the little 149ci engine and manual transmission. First up they were only available coupled to an auto transmission, then a beefier manual box became available to handle the 179's power. The "High Performance" bit just meaning higher performing than the 149ci engine. Later in production Holden started casting the actual engine size on the left hand side of the engine block.
They had a forged steel crank, as opposed to a cast crank, but so did every Holden engine up until about Feb 1967.

Cheers, Mick.