D3 EGR Valve Removal Latest Options?

[Mk1_Oz]

I have a 2009 D3 (VIN ending 5AG0325xx). I believe my EGR valves are getting stuck again although I cannot confirm this until I get my Nanocom back from repairs. Last year I had an issue with the car not being able to pull away from an intersection and at that time the Nanocom showed the EGR's were stuck open. A hammer and a length of wood fixed them.

The car is at 128,000km so I have little doubt that the EGR's are failing and due for replacement.

I had a quick looksee a few months ago and it looked like a pair of genuine valves from the UK might be around $750 landed however I just looked again and am now confused which ones my year takes. Ideas?

What are the current options for deleting the EGR valves. I believe my year/model is such that I cannot just unplug them. I have seen emulators for sale but these seemed to have been pretty much the same (if not more) in cost than just replacing the valves. Are there other options such as using the Nanocom to play inside the black boxes?

Is it even worth deleting them (I do like to keep my cars standard where possible).

Sorry to bring up something that has been discussed many times but I am just some confused with it all!!!

[rar110]

I have emulators fitted and I like them. However, you need for the EGRs to be fully closed before fitting emulators.

[PerthDisco]

I believe Bell Automotive Solutions BAS have an alternative solution.

[rar110]

They do. This also requires a functioning EGR.

[loanrangie]

Curious , but if the electric actuators still work how would the system know if the mechanical valve isn't connected ?

[Mk1_Oz]

Hmmm sounds like I may as well just install new valves!

[Fatso]

Do a search for ERG deletion , there is a wealth of info on here . [smilebigeye]

[Mk1_Oz]

I have (first port of call b4 asking a question) but some of the info is quite old and TBH it all just confused me.

[PerthDisco]

I have (first port of call b4 asking a question) but some of the info is quite old and TBH it all just confused me.

Me too! Plate, no plate, emulator or reprogram?

Mine still original and working 182k kms. No use modifying until there is a fault I’m told.

I do like the idea of no gunk in the intake and also to delete the EGR cooling water circuit.

[loanrangie]

Me too! Plate, no plate, emulator or reprogram?

Mine still original and working 182k kms. No use modifying until there is a fault I’m told.

I do like the idea of no gunk in the intake and also to delete the EGR cooling water circuit.

Actually if they are working then Garrycol's idea has merit. Remove them but leave them plugged in to the wiring but fit a blanking kit, system still thinks they are working but no gunk.
My idea is similar but remove the mechanical valves and leave the actuators connected.

[rar110]

Hmmm sounds like I may as well just install new valves!

No. Just remove them, clean and ensure they are functioning. Then reinstall and fit emulators. For emulators to work the EGR must be in the fully closed position, so it can then be unplugged and so inoperative. Then plug in the emulator to emulate a functioning EGR. Alternatively, remove the EGR completely, block the exhaust feed and block/cycle the coolant hoses and plug in emulators.

At least some EGR remaps don’t fully disable the EGR. So the EGR still need to be operational. Although the idea is reduced recycling.

[101RRS]

No. Just remove them, clean and ensure they are functioning. Then reinstall and fit emulators. For emulators to work the EGR must be in the fully closed position, so it can then be unplugged and so inoperative. Then plug in the emulator to emulate a functioning EGR. Alternatively, remove the EGR completely, block the exhaust feed and block/cycle the coolant hoses and plug in emulators.

At least some EGR remaps don’t fully disable the EGR. So the EGR still need to be operational. Although the idea is reduced recycling.

Why go through all that hassle of removing them, closing them, reinstalling etc - why not just blank them and get either a remap to remove the the function or plug in emulators.

garry

[rar110]

Garry
As I said, removing is the alternative. I’m not familiar with the tdv6 only the tdv8.
In the case of the tdv8 it’s not at all easy to blank at the turbo end. Blanking at the EGR end is best with EGR out or only if confidant the EGR is fully closed before unplugging, then plugging in the emulators.

[Mk1_Oz]

... Then reinstall and fit emulators...

Good source of emulators for TDV6? Rough cost? They literally plug into the loom in place of the EGR valves?

[rar110]

Only one source.
Yes. If EGRs closed (on shut down) unplug the EGR so no further EGR activity. Then plug in the emulator.

[Tombie]

Curious , but if the electric actuators still work how would the system know if the mechanical valve isn't connected ?

Air flows don’t balance.

[Fatso]

Air flows don’t balance.

As detected by the Maff .

[101RRS]

As I said - for a D3 - just blank the EGRs, remove the butterfly, either remap to remove the EGR function (contact Bell Auto Services - BAS in the UK) or find emulators to simulate the EGRs.

Too easy but not cheap but cheaper that replacing 2 EGRS - saves the knuckles and a lot of stress.

In my car I had the EGR issue and this was well before remaps to remove EGRs and emulators. So I bought some new EGRs (from the UK and cheap) with the intent of changing them. Just playing around I plugged the new EGRs into the wiring loom while not installed on the engine - all faults gone and EML went out. So I blanked my engine (Euro 4), removed the butterfly, expended the EGR wiring harness and mounted the new EGRs in the box next to the ABS modulator. This was about 6 years ago and never had a problem since. The new EGRs are acting as my emulators.

If I had replaced the EGRs at the time I would probably be looking at doing the same again - now. In normal mixed driving they do not last all that long.

These days - just blank the dead EGRs - they don't need for them to be closed and remap the EGR function out or get emulators.

Garry

[Tombie]

Not quite Garry... you can’t just blank EGRs on later D3s. There is a cross over point where that no longer works.

And be wary, without mapping them out it’s possible to change fuel mix and damage engines...

[101RRS]

Not quite Garry... you can’t just blank EGRs on later D3s. There is a cross over point where that no longer works.

And be wary, without mapping them out it’s possible to change fuel mix and damage engines...

Yes I agree but I would have thought this vehicle would still be Euro 4 so applies - Pete Bell can certainly advise. With the 2.7s, these days the way to do it is as you suggest and that is to get a remap to sort the lot out.

I must admit I thought the cross over for blanking/remapping EGrs etc issues was the changeover from the 2.7 to the 3.0.

[Mk1_Oz]

lol....this is getting too confusing again.

Given I have to pull out my EGRs to clean them/ensure shut I will just buy new ones which is probably cheaper than the emulators anyway.

Cheers for the input all.

[rar110]

Emulators are $450. Lots cheaper than new EGRs. I didn’t touch butterflies after fitting emulators.

[101RRS]

Given I have to pull out my EGRs to clean them/ensure shut

Why? That discussion was about a TDV8 (its a forum, discussion does from time to time go off topic) - if you just blank and remap to take out the EGR function then your old EGRs stay in place and it does not matter if they are open or closed - one of my EGRs is open and the other is closed.

I suggest you contact BAS with your VIN and discuss options - they will know what can and cannot be done.

If you just replace your EGRs (and they are really a consumable item) - you can expect to have to be doing them again in about another 70,000 - 100,000km.

Garry

[Tombie]

Just a bit of info...

When mapped out, they still do their cleaning cycle on vehicle shut down.

They just don’t open during running, and the engine tune is modified to allow for this.

[Fatso]

Yes I agree but I would have thought this vehicle would still be Euro 4 so applies - Pete Bell can certainly advise. With the 2.7s, these days the way to do it is as you suggest and that is to get a remap to sort the lot out.

I must admit I thought the cross over for blanking/remapping EGrs etc issues was the changeover from the 2.7 to the 3.0.

The 2.7 cross over was between 06My Euro 3 to 07My Euro4 , some early 07My coud still be blanked without a remap as the engine managment was still 06My or a hybrid between the 2 , I was able to blank my 2007 Jan build 2.7 RRS without a remap
Some 06My and early 07My when blanked still logged EGR or flow faults but acording to Pete at BAS those faults could be disregarded .

[101RRS]

Tombie was not talking about the change from Euro 3 to Euro 4 - I believe he was talking about the very late 2,7s on the change to the 3.0.

All Euro 4 2.7s can be blanked but sooner or later the EML will come on but with no problems with engine performance - just the annoying light.

My late MY 07 is blanked and with my home made emulators (EGRs) and I have no fault lights or codes.

But as you indicated - Pete is the best person to advise on the right approach.

[Big Dog]

I Bought a pair on Ebay from D2S? parts i think for $300 delivered all gaskets included and replaced. they are LR originals with the part numbers new in a box. I also have the blanking kit but have not put in. I will give to MR Automotive to do. also late 2008 D3

[101RRS]

If you did the EGRs the blanking kit will be a breeze - however without a remap to take out the EGR function you will have the EML on all the time on your blanked engine.

Garry

[Mk1_Oz]

Been a while but i am back looking at EGR valves.

My Nanocom is showing that my egr %'s match ie command to actual so happy they are not stuck. However, the Throt. Pos. % is always at 12% but i think this is the butterfly valve that people talk about.

More of possible concern is that when shut down both egr commands are 0% but both are actually sat at 5%. Is that normal or perhaps are they sticking a little???

[loanrangie]

Its on my to do list as well, just bought a GAP tool so might even look at deleting the EGR's in the map or at least try a blanking kit.

[GregMilner]

I'm about to get my MY16 D4 done (EGR blanked) and spoke to Mark at Auto Code in Perth - apparently he's the whizz at this. It's $605 to do the job, including all hardware and software updates, and he needs the car for a day.
While the ECU is out on the bench, he can also do a remap to lift power and torque, for an extra $1100.

Have no idea whether these prices are ballpark or not, but seems reasonable to me.

[oldsalt]

Yesterday I fitted the blanking kit to my D3 (2007) - I've already had the remap done (about two weeks ago) and it runs veeeery nicely... couldn't be happier with the change !!!!
I have taken some pics of the EGR inlets...yuckkkkkk I'll post them up when I return from holidays.... off for a few weeks relaxation on Maui. [smilebigeye]

cheers

[loanrangie]

Checked the BAS site and an egr delete file is 150GBP and uploaded via a GAP tool, and an extra 350GBP gets 90nm and 25kw.

[letherm]

I'm about to get my MY16 D4 done (EGR blanked) and spoke to Mark at Auto Code in Perth - apparently he's the whizz at this. It's $605 to do the job, including all hardware and software updates, and he needs the car for a day.
While the ECU is out on the bench, he can also do a remap to lift power and torque, for an extra $1100.

Have no idea whether these prices are ballpark or not, but seems reasonable to me.

Beware of possible warranty considerations before you do this. May cause you grief if something goes wrong.

Martin

[gofish]

I had a stage one re-map & EGR delete done recently & am VERY impressed. The car is a LOT nicer to drive. Shifts better (smoother) & performs better. Fuel economy is also better.

[GregMilner]

Beware of possible warranty considerations before you do this. May cause you grief if something goes wrong.

Martin

Thanks Martin, yes that's definitely on my mind. Although it doesn't seem to concern the many owners who have had it done and swear by it. The legal and warranty issues do concern me though.

[discomatt69]

I had a stage one re-map & EGR delete done recently & am VERY impressed. The car is a LOT nicer to drive. Shifts better (smoother) & performs better. Fuel economy is also better.

Was it done in Melbourne ? If so, Who did it for you?

[gofish]

Was it done in Melbourne ? If so, Who did it for you?

Work was done at Rova Range in Bentleigh East.

[oldsalt]

Work was done at Rova Range in Bentleigh East.

And mine was done at "Exceltune" in Duke Street Sunshine.

[PerthDisco]

Reviving this thread with a new idea for the brainstrust to comment.

My question is around deleting the EGR function with blanks combined with emulator or mapping (or keeping working EGRs plugged in) to keep the ECU happy is the normal process on later engines.

In this process the EGR cooler is blanked where it joins the EGR electric valve but is still filled with hot gas and coolant going through the internal cooler pipe circuit presenting a failure risk longer term in my opinion.

Wouldn’t the following be smarter;

1. Remove permanently EGR Cooler and blank exhaust manifold outlet.

2. Sort and plug coolant pipe work to cooler.

3. Leave working EGR in place plugged in.

4. Apply needed blanking plates to EGR unit and manifold pipe work.

Why wouldn’t this work? You’ve kept the ECU stock and removed a source of failure in the Cooler.

I’ve read in UK that people have removed the coolers and associated pipe work. The EGR Coolers do aid in bringing the coolant up to operating temp quickly.

My EGRs have no problem so far but I don’t think they go forever.

[loanrangie]

I like your idea and something that I have been thinking about, there must be a sensor or such that triggers the cel and tells the ECU they aren't working.

[CanadianRyan]

Reviving this thread with a new idea for the brainstrust to comment.

My question is around deleting the EGR function with blanks combined with emulator or mapping (or keeping working EGRs plugged in) to keep the ECU happy is the normal process on later engines.

In this process the EGR cooler is blanked where it joins the EGR electric valve but is still filled with hot gas and coolant going through the internal cooler pipe circuit presenting a failure risk long term in my opinion.

Wouldn’t the following be smarter;

1. Remove EGR Cooler and blank exhaust manifold outlet.

2. Sort and plug coolant pipe work to cooler.

3. Leave working EGR in place plugged in.

4. Apply needed blanking plates to EGR unit and manifold pipe work.

Why wouldn’t this work? You’ve kept the ECU stock and removed a source of failure in the Cooler.

I’ve read in UK that people have removed the coolers and associated pipe work.

My EGRs have no problem so far but I don’t think they go forever.

You can't alter/blank the air flow through the EGRs and leave them enabled because the ECU monitors the flow (at least in the later models). I found this out the hard way in my '07 MY08. It will throw multiple codes including transmission fault which prevents gear shifting - all related to incorrect EGR flow. I then had them disabled via the ECU and it's been fine ever since. Superchips did this for me.

[discorevy]

Just did this on one 2 weeks ago while I had the body off to do heads , it also deletes 5 hoses and crossover cooler pipe in the process .
I left the coolers in place ( no coolant or gases inside ) to act as a heat shield from the exhaust manifolds . I could if I had more time manufacture extra heat shields but no need really.

The plates from a td5 egr delete kit will fit on the tdv6 manifolds when approx 2mm is taken out from the outside edge of the bolt holes.

I will get around to fitting an EGT gauge to see what these run at pre and post tuning.......eventually [bigwhistle]

yes emulators or mapping out of egr is required for bosch system

[PerthDisco]

Just did this on one 2 weeks ago while I had the body off to do heads , it also deletes 5 hoses and crossover cooler pipe in the process .
I left the coolers in place ( no coolant or gases inside )

Wow thanks for this. A good solution leaving them on and empty.

Love to see on a diagram the pipes removed (a good thing).

Edit: found picture

150038

WAP500380 removed
(Seems has a supply pipe connection not shown)
LR006638 removed?
(Presume is return pipe)
PEI500020 T-piece removed?

150041

Could it could be done body on?

A hell of lot of the engine plumbing is EGR related!

I’d read of people buying new EGRs and just having them connected loose in the engine bay to fool the system. Maybe ok on post MY07 EU4 cars?

[PerthDisco]

I will get around to fitting an EGT gauge to see what these run at pre and post tuning.......

Very interested to learn how coolant temp is affected. I read one of the Cooler lines came from the thermostat so I was worried the thermostat needed the Cooler supply to function properly?

[discorevy]

Wow thanks for this. A good solution leaving them on and empty.

Love to see on a diagram the pipes removed (a good thing).

Edit: found picture

150038

WAP500380 removed
(Seems has a supply pipe connection not shown)
LR006638 removed?
(Presume is return pipe)
PEI500020 T-piece removed?


The one I did was early model which has different cooling routing, and I think that diagram is incomplete , from memory WAP500380 has a T piece as well which may run to the heater matrix, if that is the case then PEI500020 should run to the other matrix pipe , I really need to see an EU4 ( a bugger because I had one here 2 days ago ) to be sure . When I get one in next I'll have a look.

150041

Could it could be done body on?

If you can get to the bolts and clip on the u shaped pipe from manifold to egr cooler then yes.

A hell of lot of the engine plumbing is EGR related!

I’d read of people buying new EGRs and just having them connected loose in the engine bay to fool the system. Maybe ok on post MY07 EU4 cars?

the later system uses measurements from the maf and map sensors which must be within set parameters when egr on signal is given otherwise cel will come on there might be some early my 2007 exceptions


Very interested to learn how coolant temp is affected. I read one of the Cooler lines came from the thermostat so I was worried the thermostat needed the Cooler supply to function properly?

coolant temp not affected ,this was proven with a hungry sand exit from Bornholm beach suzuki track last weekend .:firedevil: EGT = exhaust gas temperature, which is the gauge I want to fit to measure the peak when loading tunes using the factory map as a baseline

[stuarth44]

I have a 2009 D3 (VIN ending 5AG0325xx). I believe my EGR valves are getting stuck again although I cannot confirm this until I get my Nanocom back from repairs. Last year I had an issue with the car not being able to pull away from an intersection and at that time the Nanocom showed the EGR's were stuck open. A hammer and a length of wood fixed them.

The car is at 128,000km so I have little doubt that the EGR's are failing and due for replacement.

I had a quick looksee a few months ago and it looked like a pair of genuine valves from the UK might be around $750 landed however I just looked again and am now confused which ones my year takes. Ideas?

What are the current options for deleting the EGR valves. I believe my year/model is such that I cannot just unplug them. I have seen emulators for sale but these seemed to have been pretty much the same (if not more) in cost than just replacing the valves. Are there other options such as using the Nanocom to play inside the black boxes?

Is it even worth deleting them (I do like to keep my cars standard where possible).

Sorry to bring up something that has been discussed many times but I am just some confused with it all!!!
why would you need more hp, 254 seems plenty, at least to me it does.

[loanrangie]

why would you need more hp, 254 seems plenty, at least to me it does.D3 so 2.7 is 140kw so a lot less than 254bhp.

[stuarth44]

D3 so 2.7 is 140kw so a lot less than 254bhp.
ok, i have that mill in my tdv6 2.7, have some niggles with that car but prefer the stick to paddles it has 230000 on it

[Tombie]

D3 so 2.7 is 140kw so a lot less than 254bhp.

My D4 2.7 makes 230bhp [bigwhistle]

[loanrangie]

You can't alter/blank the air flow through the EGRs and leave them enabled because the ECU monitors the flow (at least in the later models). I found this out the hard way in my '07 MY08. It will throw multiple codes including transmission fault which prevents gear shifting - all related to incorrect EGR flow. I then had them disabled via the ECU and it's been fine ever since. Superchips did this for me.

Same car and mine has been running perfectly fine for over 3 years with blanked EGR's, all pipework in place and no EGR delete patch, only removed the intake butterfly.
I occasionally get a code registered in my GAP tool but never had a CEL or limp mode occasion.