Weight balancing hire car trailers.

[LRT]

I brought home an ex Army Series III from Melbourne a fortnight ago to use as a donor for my FFR and wasn't impressed with the trailer having the wheels positioned so far back.

Is this a requirement by Vicroads? I'm considering building my own car trailer and have been following Stevo's thread with interest.

Starting to build car trailer (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/trailers-vans-and-campers/251412-starting-build-car-trailer.html)

I decided to put the weight engine forward rather than at the back but there wasn't enough tray space to balance the weight properly. I could've moved it back by a couple of feet but decided to tie it down at the front in case it moved.

The Disco towed it well but there was a few 'interesting' moments where the trailer was trying to push the rear of the car out to the side downhill. The brakes hardly worked when empty so I wouldn't have been surprised if this was part of the problem.

The other issue was the nose of the Disco 'nodding' over bumps and the steering starting to go vague. I know I need to replace the front shocks and possibly the front springs but I have towed bobcats weighing up to 3 ton without any handling problems. However, the bobcat had it's own purpose built trailer that was correctly balanced over the trailer wheels.

I have attached a picture of the trailer before and after the air suspension levelled the car before tying on.

The trailer rego label says the tare is 500kg and the GVM is 2,000kg. A soft top Series III weighs around 1,600kg IIRC so it was probably a little heavy [biggrin]

I probably should've tried weighing it at the Geelong GoWeigh but I wanted to get home before dark.

I'd appreciate advice on what I should or shouldn't have done here.

[Mick_Marsh]

You probably should have put the Landrover on backwards.

Oh, the further back the wheels, the better they tow.

[LRT]

You probably should have put the Landrover on backwards.

I did think of that but I was concerned about the trailer becoming tail heavy.

It does tow very well unladen.

[Gordie]

I did think of that but I was concerned about the trailer becoming tail heavy.

It does tow very well unladen.Front wheel would have been just aft of where the back wheel is(landy on trailer I am referring to), so weight would have been perfect, if on backwards.

[LRT]

Front wheel would have been just aft of where the back wheel is(landy on trailer I am referring to), so weight would have been perfect, if on backwards.

Ah yes I see now.

Would it be advantageous to have a little more tray length at the front and back of the trailer providing it was within legal limits?

[Gordie]

Ah yes I see now.

Would it be advantageous to have a little more tray length at the front and back of the trailer providing it was within legal limits?Personally, I would build any vehicle to the limits, if it were for general use. It's about how it is loaded, not the size of the deck. Unless it makes it too cumbersome for purpose of course. But that trailer you hired looked pretty good.

[LRT]

Personally, I would build any vehicle to the limits, if it were for general use. It's about how it is loaded, not the size of the deck. Unless it makes it too cumbersome for purpose of course. But that trailer you hired looked pretty good.

It’s a Trailer Factory one. I found it carried Freelander 1s very well but I really need something that can carry a Disco 2 or equivalent weight.

[Tins]

Oh, the further back the wheels, the better they tow.

The better they reverse as well.

[Tins]

It’s a Trailer Factory one. I found it carried Freelander 1s very well but I really need something that can carry a Disco 2 or equivalent weight.

I hired one from U-Haul today. Put a D2 on it, which may have exceeded the 1200kg load limit just a tad[bigwhistle]. I set the D2 about 600mm back from the very front of the trailer. Still made the D1 tow car sit a little high at the front. Oh for SLS. Trailer coped just fine, and the poor old D1 did just fine as well, on it's 31" tyres. Towing it up Mt Dandenong had me worried, but it was fine. Pretty sure U-Haul are very conservative with their limits.

If you have a Kennards near you, their trailers are rated for a 2200kg load. Maybe have a look. 2200 still doesn't cover a D2, but I reckon Kennards would be conservative as well.

Of course, you could consult a mechanical engineer...

[Mick_Marsh]

Tows beautifully.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/trailers-vans-and-campers/130425d1507025955-towing-stuff-yes-again-dsc_4655.jpg

[LRT]

I hired one from U-Haul today. Put a D2 on it, which may have exceeded the 1200kg load limit just a tad[bigwhistle]. I set the D2 about 600mm back from the very front of the trailer. Still made the D1 tow car sit a little high at the front. Oh for SLS. Trailer coped just fine, and the poor old D1 did just fine as well, on it's 31" tyres. Towing it up Mt Dandenong had me worried, but it was fine. Pretty sure U-Haul are very conservative with their limits.

If you have a Kennards near you, their trailers are rated for a 2200kg load. Maybe have a look. 2200 still doesn't cover a D2, but I reckon Kennards would be conservative as well.

Of course, you could consult a mechanical engineer...

Thanks John. Do you have any pictures?

I don’t have any other hire trailers around locally except for U-Haul.

Matko charged me $80/day. $10 up on last year.

I would like my own trailer rather than having to spend 2 hours driving just to get the trailer.

I’d like to build my own but don’t know what specs I need such as wheel positioning etc.

I definitely would go for electric trailer brakes but then all the trailers I’ve used haven’t always been quite roadworthy...

[Tins]

Tows beautifully.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/trailers-vans-and-campers/130425d1507025955-towing-stuff-yes-again-dsc_4655.jpg

Where were you when I needed it today? Oh, and what does it weigh? 2.7 tonne Disco, plus???? What's a 110 rated for for towing?

Nice trailer, Mr Marsh. It sits high though. Do you get much movement?

[LRT]

The better they reverse as well.

Yes. This one is one of the best I’ve used.

I just wished I had more room to balance it. I’d think it’d be difficult to get a 130 or longer wheelbase vehicle on.

In hindsight I should’ve got the Series III turned around for me with their forklift, but they weren’t a particularly motivated lot and I didn’t want to find it was too heavy and have to turn it around on the busy highway.

I also didn’t want to end up in the newspapers for a spectacular crash on the Hume Highway!!

[Slunnie]

It looks to me that the trailer could have been loaded a bit differently to get a much better result.

You can see that the tail has been squashed into the ground and the nose is sky high. That will make it handle really poorly in terms of steering, cornering and twitching and it wont stop when you use the brakes, especially on low grip surfaces. Even if SLS does level it out, the imbalance is still there and so will be all of the handling and braking problems. I would imagine it was pretty scary to drive!

When loading cars, I run a tape measure from the tow bar to the ground and then position the car to give about 25mm drop only on the towbar to get your ball weight. Don't give it a heap of ball weight because you will run into all of the above problems, and personally I do not subscribe to the 10%, especially with heavy loads.

When positioning the car on the trailer, you don't have to have the front wheels up on the front of the trailer, it will cause the weight distribution to be all wrong. Bring it back to where it needs to be, then strap it down. I use lifting straps to the rear of the trailer, then I pull the vehicle up forwards to tension the rear straps before chaining the front. The chain gives you enough adjustability to keep it tight enough. The car wont move (much), even if unbraked.

The D2 weight balance is an interesting one. It is 100kg heavier at the rear. This imbalance is increased if there is NO bullbar and it is increased again as soon as you put any fuel load into it.

[LRT]

It looks to me that the trailer could have been loaded a bit differently to get a much better result.

You can see that the tail has been squashed into the ground and the nose is sky high. That will make it handle really poorly in terms of steering, cornering and twitching and it wont stop when you use the brakes, especially on low grip surfaces. Even if SLS does level it out, the imbalance is still there and so will be all of the handling and braking problems. I would imagine it was pretty scary to drive!

When loading cars, I run a tape measure from the tow bar to the ground and then position the car to give about 25mm drop only on the towbar to get your ball weight. Don't give it a heap of ball weight because you will run into all of the above problems, and personally I do not subscribe to the 10%, especially with heavy loads.

When positioning the car on the trailer, you don't have to have the front wheels up on the front of the trailer, it will cause the weight distribution to be all wrong. Bring it back to where it needs to be, then strap it down. I use lifting straps to the rear of the trailer, then I pull the vehicle up forwards to tension the rear straps before chaining the front. The chain gives you enough adjustability to keep it tight enough. The car wont move (much), even if unbraked.

The D2 weight balance is an interesting one. It is 100kg heavier at the rear. This imbalance is increased if there is NO bullbar and it is increased again as soon as you put any fuel load into it.

Yes I agree. The SLS only makes it look visually right.

The trailer went front heavy as soon as the front axle of the Land Rover went past the trailer axles. (The rear wasn’t even on at that point)

How do you go about measuring nose weight on a D2 with SLS when they lower slightly when you turn it off? Or am I over thinking the whole thing?

I bet I had way more than the max towball weight!

In hindsight I should’ve found a quiet spot to change it around but winching it on by hand with two half flat front tyres was an effort!

It’s the first time I’ve towed a Land Rover Series III.

I’ve towed heaps of bobcats, mini excavators, dingos etc but have only towed lighter weight cars such as the Freelander.

It was a bit hairy to drive but in reality it drives like that unladen so I couldn’t really tell how much of a difference the trailer was causing.

I did find it was better to sit at 80-90kph though so I could accelerate downhill slightly.

[Tins]

It looks to me that the trailer could have been loaded a bit differently to get a much better result.

You can see that the tail has been squashed into the ground and the nose is sky high. That will make it handle really poorly in terms of steering, cornering and twitching and it wont stop when you use the brakes, especially on low grip surfaces. Even if SLS does level it out, the imbalance is still there and so will be all of the handling and braking problems. I would imagine it was pretty scary to drive!

When loading cars, I run a tape measure from the tow bar to the ground and then position the car to give about 25mm drop only on the towbar to get your ball weight. Don't give it a heap of ball weight because you will run into all of the above problems, and personally I do not subscribe to the 10%, especially with heavy loads.

When positioning the car on the trailer, you don't have to have the front wheels up on the front of the trailer, it will cause the weight distribution to be all wrong. Bring it back to where it needs to be, then strap it down. I use lifting straps to the rear of the trailer, then I pull the vehicle up forwards to tension the rear straps before chaining the front. The chain gives you enough adjustability to keep it tight enough. The car wont move (much), even if unbraked

The D2 weight balance is an interesting one. It is 100kg heavier at the rear. This imbalance is increased if there is NO bullbar and it is increased again as soon as you put any fuel load into it.

In my case, the car had no front bar, but it also had no fuel tank. Trouble was the length of the deck. I could have taken it back some though. What you say is valid, but it needs level ground to make it work. Had I been towing it more than the 10 Ks I needed today then I would have done exactly what you say, because it is good advice. I guess we get lazy, even when we are trained, as I am.

I would add: Many years ago, I nearly killed my then wife and me by towing a car and trailer combo behind a car far too light for the job. I compounded this by securing the car by the unsprung components only. The car on the trailer had no dampers. The resulting bounce, the instability of the towed versus towing mass, and my attempt to drive out of the resulting sway by accelerating, something I had heard was effective, put us into a ditch. Very scary stuff.

[Colmoore]

New 110 defenders are (de) rated to tow 2.5t in Australia from memory.
In the U.K. They are rated for a lot more.
The 300 tdi 130's are rated GVM of 7.2t including 1t payload on the roof!!!!! Think you may need external roll cage bolted through to chassis to pull that off! Though I had 700kg on my Puma 110 and it handled fine on the road - the hinges had to be dropped so the doors would close though.
Apparently the law in SA states that you must overstrap each wheel down to the deck when towing. Found that out when I had to have my 110 tilt trayed to Pt Augusta to replace an engine mount & IC hose a couple of years back. The coppers fined the truck driver a small fortune for chaining it down only. Totally retarded IMO - my truck wasn't going anywhere til we undid those chains.
Col

[Tins]

New 110 defenders are (de) rated to tow 2.5t in Australia from memory.
In the U.K. They are rated for a lot more.

Pretty sure the D1 and D2 are rated 1000kg above that, braked.


Apparently the law in SA states that you must overstrap each wheel down to the deck when towing. Found that out when I had to have my 110 tilt trayed to Pt Augusta to replace an engine mount & IC hose a couple of years back. The coppers fined the truck driver a small fortune for chaining it down only. Totally retarded IMO - my truck wasn't going anywhere til we undid those chains.
Col

My experience with coppers is that they have a sheet to work from, and like robots they will work through every bullet point.

My D2 has been on two Nationwide trucks in the last week, and yes, overstrap each wheel. I wonder how they would go if I asked them to tow a 2.7 tonne Disco without dampers. Those little Isuzus that they drive might get a shock if a Disco started to bounce. I'd want a strap or two tying down the car. Most of the mass is in the sprung, not the unsprung. But what do I know?

[Tombie]

The “she’ll be right mate” attitude coming through in this thread is ****ing disturbing!!!

[Tins]

The “she’ll be right mate” attitude coming through in this thread is ****ing disturbing!!!

Look away, Tombie, Look away. It was ever thus.

In my defence, the incident I reported was over 40 years ago... Made any mistakes yourself in that time??

[Mick_Marsh]

Pretty sure the D1 and D2 are rated 1000kg above that, braked.
Irrespective of what the Landrover is capable of, a trailer wit an ATM of 750kg or over must be braked.



My experience with coppers is that they have a sheet to work from, and like robots they will work through every bullet point.

My D2 has been on two Nationwide trucks in the last week, and yes, overstrap each wheel. I wonder how they would go if I asked them to tow a 2.7 tonne Disco without dampers. Those little Isuzus that they drive might get a shock if a Disco started to bounce. I'd want a strap or two tying down the car. Most of the mass is in the sprung, not the unsprung. But what do I know?

I would love to see the legislation that states each wheel must be overstrapped.

[LRT]

The “she’ll be right mate” attitude coming through in this thread is ****ing disturbing!!!

Welcome to Australia...

Seriously though I would much prefer to use my tray truck for this but it’s off the road at the moment until I get time to rebuild the brakes on it as it’s downright dangerous.

[Tins]

Irrespective of what the Landrover is capable of, a trailer wit an ATM of 750kg or over must be braked.




I would love to see the legislation that states each wheel must be overstrapped.


Colmoore posted the strap thing, Mick. I merely observed that Nationwide seemed to be observing it. AFAIK, the Load Restraints Guide has not been updated since 2004.

[Mick_Marsh]

Colmoore posted the strap thing, Mick. I merely observed that Nationwide seemed to be observing it. AFAIK, the Load Restraints Guide has not been updated since 2004.
I'd still love to see the legislation no matter who posts it up.
I suspect it might be another "rated shackles" myth.

[LRT]

I'd still love to see the legislation no matter who posts it up.
I suspect it might be another "rated shackles" myth.

http://www.ntc.gov.au/Media/Reports/(9E12B22A-6156-41B0-F382-136A34520AF8).pdf#page93

[Tombie]

Look away, Tombie, Look away. It was ever thus.

In my defence, the incident I reported was over 40 years ago... Made any mistakes yourself in that time??

Plenty. But a mistake is an error.

Willingly and knowingly putting an overloaded, unbraked, non compliant load onto public roads..

Different kettle of fish [emoji41]

[Mick_Marsh]

http://www.ntc.gov.au/Media/Reports/(9E12B22A-6156-41B0-F382-136A34520AF8).pdf#page93

Just as I thought, It is a guide only. It's not actually enforceable legislation.

The Load Restraint Guide
provides examples of
how to restrain loads to
meet those forces.
It is intended to be
used as a guide only,
as it is impossible to be
prescriptive for the many
different types, weights
and shapes of loads that
can be transported.

[Tins]

Plenty. But a mistake is an error.

Willingly and knowingly putting an overloaded, unbraked, non compliant load onto public roads..

Different kettle of fish [emoji41]

Who said it was unbraked? Or overloaded, by the regs of the time? Not even sure it was non compliant, in 1978. What it WAS was a learning curve, one that I survived. One reason I posted it here was for folks to look and learn.

What I saw today was a Kiosk system to absolve the hire company of all liability for any accident/injury/death due to the incompetence of the hirer. It is, in fact, appalling that a newly licenced driver can hire a trailer like a car transporter with no experience or training whatsoever. At no time did the counter jerk come out and see if I had done even one thing properly. Perhaps my MC Licence reassured him, but I doubt it, as all he checked was if the last four digits matched those of the DL I used for the online booking.

[Tombie]

John. I was referring to the more recent hauling events some are speaking of.

Yes, 40 years ago there was very little regulation and you learned a lot.
Thankfully you or others around you didn’t learn the hard way that time.

This is Australia 2018, we’re all enlightened individuals are we not?

Our local hire guy has a great set up.

His trailers are rated to take a full size 4wd.
Have on board electric brakes so any vehicle with working brake wiring works.

When hiring, he comes out to see what you’re towing with, what you intend to haul, gets it written down and signed for on the contract. If you show up in a hatch back you won’t be getting more than his 6x4.

[DiscoMick]

Defender's are rated to tow 3500kg.
Trailers should be set up to almost balance, with no more than 10% towball weight.
Personally, any trailer bigger than a simple box trailer should have electric brakes, I reckon.
I once saw an accident where a trailer went out of control and sent a tinny through the windscreen of an oncoming car, decapitating the driver. Not pretty.

[Tombie]

Defender's are rated to tow 3500kg.
Trailers should be set up to almost balance, with no more than 10% towball weight.
Personally, any trailer bigger than a simple box trailer should have electric brakes, I reckon.
I once saw an accident where a trailer went out of control and sent a tinny through the windscreen of an oncoming car, decapitating the driver. Not pretty.

On a Defender it’s no more than 7% at max load....
250kg ball weight max.

At any ball weight over 150kg the balance must be removed from the vehicles GVM - up to 100kg if running at 250kg ball weight..

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Wheelstraps are the ONLY way to move normal vehicles.
Chains are used for loads without suspension.

[rangieman]

I'd still love to see the legislation no matter who posts it up.
I suspect it might be another "rated shackles" myth.
Not that i would know but it used to be 2 fixing points for local and 4 for interstate [bigwhistle]
And chains were all the go years ago till the invention of straps which made life easier and quicker but yeah what would i know or care [bighmmm] .
As for legalities do i really care any more [bighmmm] !

[DiscoMick]

On a Defender it’s no more than 7% at max load....
250kg ball weight max.

At any ball weight over 150kg the balance must be removed from the vehicles GVM - up to 100kg if running at 250kg ball weight..Interesting. I wonder if having rear airbags to level up the vehicle when towing would alter that?
Our camper is nowhere near those numbers, so it's not a problem for us. Just curious

[Mick_Marsh]

Not that i would know but it used to be 2 fixing points for local and 4 for interstate [bigwhistle]
And chains were all the go years ago till the invention of straps which made life easier and quicker but yeah what would i know or care [bighmmm] .
As for legalities do i really care any more [bighmmm] !

Yeah, just what would you know?
I'm not talking best practice. A statement was made.

Apparently the law in SA states that you must overstrap each wheel down to the deck when towing. Found that out when I had to have my 110 tilt trayed to Pt Augusta to replace an engine mount & IC hose a couple of years back. The coppers fined the truck driver a small fortune for chaining it down only. Totally retarded IMO - my truck wasn't going anywhere til we undid those chains.
If it is a rule that you can get fined for non compliance, that rule must be in legislation somewhere. I've not heard of this rule and, judging from what I regularly see on he road, many others have not heard of this rule, which you can be fined for not following, or so it is said.
I'm just asking for a link to this rule, which I cannot find.

[Slunnie]

How do you go about measuring nose weight on a D2 with SLS when they lower slightly when you turn it off? Or am I over thinking the whole thing?


I don't have SLS, but I don't think it self levels until start up??? Looks like it in the pics too. Hopefully you can still do pre/post loaded measurements before it self levels.


IWhat you say is valid, but it needs level ground to make it work.

Rather than using given measurements referenced off flat ground, I just run the tape for a measurement with everything in place where you are loading literally just before you load, bring the car on and then measure again which will give you the drop. Doesn't matter where the tow car is or what its on.

[Tombie]

Interesting. I wonder if having rear airbags to level up the vehicle when towing would alter that?
Our camper is nowhere near those numbers, so it's not a problem for us. Just curious

Hi Mick,

It makes no difference. The maximum is inline with axle loading capacities. Regardless of height the mass on the rear can’t by design exceed 250kg.

[Tombie]

Yeah, just what would you know?
I'm not talking best practice. A statement was made.

If it is a rule that you can get fined for non compliance, that rule must be in legislation somewhere. I've not heard of this rule and, judging from what I regularly see on he road, many others have not heard of this rule, which you can be fined for not following, or so it is said.
I'm just asking for a link to this rule, which I cannot find.

Just found the RTA guide for securing loads and it states that lashing from specific chassis mounting points is an option.

Securing at the wheels is good for short trips IMO as it produces less shunting and shock loads on the vehicle.
Biggest issue is such vehicles with long travel suspension which can bounce regardless of initial tension applied.

[DiscoMick]

Hi Mick,

It makes no difference. The maximum is inline with axle loading capacities. Regardless of height the mass on the rear can’t by design exceed 250kg.Fair enough. 250kg is a heavy towball weight too. I'd be concerned about plonking that much weight on the towball.
The Guardian camper trailer I fancy next has a towball weight of about 120kg, but that can be reduced by about 10kg just by filling the rear water tank.

[Tombie]

My Crossover is nose heavy, runs about 200kg for 1800kg loaded.

[mick88]

In my experience of hiring trailers for carrying cars is that they are all made extremely heavy in an attempt to reduce the chance of damage to them, which impacts on their carrying capacity. Most wouldn't be legal with an 88" Land Rover on them, as the maximum weight is 1990kg unless they are fitted with electric brakes and a breakaway brake. I considered fabricating my own car trailer, but unless you have good lifting gear at hand they are heavy work when it comes to flipping them over etc. I considered a few second hand ones, but most were either junk or made of unobtainium if the were any good. I ended up purchasing a new one from a mob in Melbourne, probably cheaper than I could have made one for, and so far so good. I mainly cart 88's on it, with motors, without motors, and sometimes with Holden motors in them, so the weight distribution varies. Occasionally tractors too. I have spray painted marks on the floor so that I know where to park the vehicles for their best position.

As for transporting that 109 I agree it would have been more comfortable reversed onto the trailer and reduced the amount of diaphoretic moments your palms experienced.


Slightly off track, but if ever transporting an early diesel tractor on a trailer or truck, ensure the shut-off is tied in the "off" position.
A diesel tractor in low gear, rocking to and fro on a trailer, can easily start. Last thing you want to see in the rear vision mirror, is a tractor negotiating the "A" frame of the trailer. ;)

Cheers, Mick.

[pop058]

In my experience of hiring trailers for carrying cars is that they are all made extremely heavy in an attempt to reduce the chance of damage to them, which impacts on their carrying capacity. Most wouldn't be legal with an 88" Land Rover on them, as the maximum weight is 1990kg unless they are fitted with electric brakes and a breakaway brake. I considered fabricating my own car trailer, but unless you have good lifting gear at hand they are heavy work when it comes to flipping them over etc. I considered a few second hand ones, but most were either junk or made of unobtainium if the were any good. I ended up purchasing a new one from a mob in Melbourne, probably cheaper than I could have made one for, and so far so good. I mainly cart 88's on it, with motors, without motors, and sometimes with Holden motors in them, so the weight distribution varies. Occasionally tractors too. I have spray painted marks on the floor so that I know where to park the vehicles for their best position.

As for transporting that 109 I agree it would have been more comfortable reversed onto the trailer and reduced the amount of diaphoretic moments your palms experienced.


Slightly off track, but if ever transporting an early diesel tractor on a trailer or truck, ensure the shut-off is tied in the "off" position.
A diesel tractor in in low gear, rocking to and fro on trailer, can easily start. Last thing you want to see in the rear vision mirror is a tractor negotiating the A frame of the trailer. ;)

Cheers, Mick.

Great advice but it begs the question, how do you know this [bigwhistle]

[LRT]

I have to hire the trailer to take a Fergie to NSW at some stage so I'll put the Series III on again round the other way and see how it handles.

I need to rebuild the suspension on the Disco as unladen it drives with the same feeling you get driving a DAF cab over where it feels like you're wobbling all over the road.

[LRT]

Slightly off track, but if ever transporting an early diesel tractor on a trailer or truck, ensure the shut-off is tied in the "off" position.
A diesel tractor in low gear, rocking to and fro on a trailer, can easily start. Last thing you want to see in the rear vision mirror, is a tractor negotiating the "A" frame of the trailer. ;)

Thanks for the tip. They do start very easily. [bigwhistle]

[Colmoore]

Weeeelllll.
I've finally had time to look at the forum (after putting the popcorn on) to find I'd maybe opened a can....
I just stated what happened to me in 2016 when my deefer was tilt trayed to Pt Augusta in SA. As I stated, the coppers pulled him over and fined him somewhere in the vicinity of +$800 for not having the load properly secured.
That's what happened - I was there.
Was it correct interpretation of the law/legislation/guideline? I have no idea, but I wish I had at the time; I really felt sorry for the truck driver who, went out of his way to help us that day and imo, my truck was well secured.
If that copper was working off a guideline (whilst teaching a rookie) old mate should have been able to get off the fine.
Wish I'd posted this earlier!

Anyways, there's always something new to learn isn't there?

Col

[Mick_Marsh]

I just stated what happened to me in 2016 when my deefer was tilt trayed to Pt Augusta in SA. As I stated, the coppers pulled him over and fined him somewhere in the vicinity of +$800 for not having the load properly secured.
That's what happened - I was there.

Apparently the law in SA states that you must overstrap each wheel down to the deck when towing.
Two completely different things in the eyes of the law.
One is general in method and the other is specific in method


248 Load restraint requirement
(1) The following requirements apply to a vehicle that is carrying a load—
(a) the load must be secured by a means that is appropriate to the vehicle and the nature of the load; and
(b) the load must be placed and secured on the vehicle in a way that prevents or would be likely to prevent, the load or any part of the load from—
(i) hanging or projecting from the vehicle;
or
(ii) becoming dislodged or falling from the vehicle; and
(c) the load must not be placed or secured on the vehicle in a way that makes the vehicle unstable.
(2) In proceedings for an offence against the Act in respect of the contravention of a load restraint requirement, evidence of non-compliance with the performance standards recommended in the Load Restraint Guide, Second Edition 2004, published by the National Transport Commission, is admissible in evidence.

[LRT]

Considering how many bits and pieces you see hardly tied down on the back of utes and 6x4 trailers you'd wonder if the Police actually cared how things are tied down.

Only last year I had to swerve out of the way of a dining table that came off a ute on the Princes Highway. Fortunately it was on a dual section but was incredibly hard to spot until it was almost too late.

[Mick_Marsh]

Considering how many bits and pieces you see hardly tied down on the back of utes and 6x4 trailers you'd wonder if the Police actually cared how things are tied down.

Only last year I had to swerve out of the way of a dining table that came off a ute on the Princes Highway. Fortunately it was on a dual section but was incredibly hard to spot until it was almost too late.
Passed a funny one last night. A Holden ute shell on a tandem. Two straps over the body. Tub of the ute shell was full of miscellaneous items. Driver was out of the car readjusting the straps. About a km up the road, there was a police car that had a white van pulled over. My guess is the fellow towing the trailer had passed the police car and was attempting to make his load appear more secure in case the police car decided to turn around.
I guess the police would have been interested had something else not taken their attention.

A few years ago I had to brake heavily to avoid a wheel barrow that fell off the tradies ute in front of me. Had I been in my ute at the time, I would have scored a rather good wheel barrow.

[DiscoMick]

Reminds me of a funny scene I saw today. An officer sprinted down the road shouting, "You can't park there" at a man. The man pointed at the sign and said, "Yes I can. " The officer looked at the sign, shook his head and said, "You're right, you can. " And walked off.

[chrisduryea]

Having built my own car/plant trailer after hiring ones that weren’t suitable. Either deck size or weight rating, normally both. It did take a while to build it as we were only doing it in free time.

But I ended up with an awesome trailer, 3500kg rated with dual 12” electric brakes, 6m x 2m deck, Hydraulic tilt.

Having the 6m deck length means I have always been able to shift the load to the perfect spot on the trailer. I do as Slunnie suggested measure the coupling height, also do the front wheel arch height before loading, and look at the overall layout. Then load up and move the load appropriately. My D2 has SLS and pumps the back end up when you start up but having the front wheel arch height you quickly verify if these is too much towbar down force.
Always towed beautifully just taking the bit of extra time even with short trips.

I have attended a number of FATAL traffic accidents due to incorrectly loaded trailers swaying out of control and taking out other innocent road users, just because someone was too lazy to load their trailer correctly. So take your time and don’t be lazy, if you cant do it properly pay for a tilt tray etc.....

[Senatorjohn]

Since most of the weight is around the front axle, the car is too far forward. What was the tow ball loading? Problem with trailers with long front section and short rear section is that it is sometimes impossible to get the car back far enough to get the right weight distribution.
John

[Nemo]

When I was young and in a hurry I had to pick up a bobcat from a job I was doing in an F100 & trailer. Parked on the road facing upwards on a hill I began to reverse the bobcat onto the ramps. Suddenly after blinking twice I realized the ground was moving whilst looking at the ramps and it was full steam ahead to get off. The hand brake was on and the F100 was in gear. The weight on the rear of the trailer lifted the rear wheels up which had the whole show going down hill a couple of metres. Experience is a good teacher but the fees are high! Since then I've seen a few towing incidences, one was a bobcat on a trailer behind a Holden ute. The ute was stuck on a 45 deg angle up a traffic light pole, the driver unable to get out being a metre or two off the ground. Too much speed cornering up an incline with too lighter towing vehicle.
Careful consideration before even turning the key and conservative driving have kept me incident free. As we all know, towing can be dangerous and who wants lessons learnt from the unexpected?

[tony12]

4 point tie down via wheel straps on a trailer or tray back. Especially if you have a vehicle with self leveling suspension. You tie it down via chassis points and then when ignition is turned on the car will try a pump back level. i,ve seen tow points ripped out by this happening.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

yep, but ALL vehicles tied down by chains will (suspension)compress over bumps and the chains will go loose and either come undone, or the car ( and trailer!!! so you get twice the uplift) will recover and go bang against the chains.
Repeat over and over on our great roads.

Tying the car down by the tyres negates ALL of that...

[bee utey]

Tying the car down by the tyres negates ALL of that...

What if the vehicle on the trailer gets a flat?

[donh54]

What if the vehicle on the trailer gets a flat?

Tighten the straps! It doesn't matter whether the tyres are flat or not, if the wheels can't move, the car isn't going anywhere.

[nrs91]

A few notes from my experience towing with my 90, 110 and Disco2 all over the UK:

Keep the trailer level or at worst slightly nose up
Car trailers rarely have load sharing suspension meaning that for the weight to be distributed evenly between all four trailer wheels the trailer must be level, if it cant be level then have it slightly nose up so the weight is more on the rear axle than the front, making the trailer behave like a longer more stable trailer.

Run a decent amount of noseweight
Land Rover weights are normally designed with 150kg trailer nose weight in mind (Gross Vehicle Weight is normally 150kg lower than the max axle weights added together).
That 150kg nose weight helps the back of the car grip and stabilises the trailer (the cigar and cocktail stick scene in the film "The Fastest Indian").

Dont run too much noseweight
With the large rear overhang of a 110 or a Discovery large noseweight starts taking weight off the front axle... making the steering vague and handling unpredictable at least.
90s dont suffer this problem anywhere near as badly.

Strap down the wheels of the vehicle being towed
If you hold the wheels to the trailer the vehicle on the trailer will not be going anywhere (unless its a half finished project with lots of bolts missing).
Strapping to the chassis or body will only lead to lose straps as the vehicles suspension cycles over bumps.
Though if you have a vehicle with a large body like a Marshall bodied 109 ambulance then extra straps to help control the body movement can be a blessing.

Hope these observations help!

[Gordie]

Well said Nick.

[Gordie]

What if the vehicle on the trailer gets a flat?Stop immediately and call the RAA.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Our English cousins use solid axles,,,

Any Engineers around?

[nrs91]

Our English cousins use solid axles,,,

Any Engineers around?

Older trailers are leaf springs and solid axles, more modern ones are the "Indespension" style rubber torsion bar suspension unit as its compact.

I am an English engineer lol

[pop058]

A few notes from my experience towing with my 90, 110 and Disco2 all over the UK:

Keep the trailer level or at worst slightly nose up
Car trailers rarely have load sharing suspension meaning that for the weight to be distributed evenly between all four trailer wheels the trailer must be level, if it cant be level then have it slightly nose up so the weight is more on the rear axle than the front, making the trailer behave like a longer more stable trailer.

Run a decent amount of noseweight
Land Rover weights are normally designed with 150kg trailer nose weight in mind (Gross Vehicle Weight is normally 150kg lower than the max axle weights added together).
That 150kg nose weight helps the back of the car grip and stabilises the trailer (the cigar and cocktail stick scene in the film "The Fastest Indian").

Dont run too much noseweight
With the large rear overhang of a 110 or a Discovery large noseweight starts taking weight off the front axle... making the steering vague and handling unpredictable at least.
90s dont suffer this problem anywhere near as badly.

Strap down the wheels of the vehicle being towed
If you hold the wheels to the trailer the vehicle on the trailer will not be going anywhere (unless its a half finished project with lots of bolts missing).
Strapping to the chassis or body will only lead to lose straps as the vehicles suspension cycles over bumps.
Though if you have a vehicle with a large body like a Marshall bodied 109 ambulance then extra straps to help control the body movement can be a blessing.

Hope these observations help!


Not sure I agree with this opinion (in Australia). Load sharing is quite common (once again, in Aus) and a requirement with some specific exceptions. If your suspension does not have load sharing I believe there is a % reduction applied to the GVM. IIRC non-load sharing components need to be capable of 120% of the load.

[nrs91]

Not sure I agree with this opinion (in Australia). Load sharing is quite common (once again, in Aus) and a requirement with some specific exceptions. If your suspension does not have load sharing I believe there is a % reduction applied to the GVM. IIRC non-load sharing components need to be capable of 120% of the load.

Fair enough Paul,
In the UK its almost like they cant be arsed to make a decent trailer due to the cheaply available off the shelf components (the trailer manufacturer is pretty much just a chassis and wiring loom manufacturer).
So some trailers run leaf springs but most run the indespension rubber torsion bar style units, neither of which provide any inter axle load sharing.
It makes them ride like crap unladen too!

What load sharing designs do you guys have in Aus?

[donh54]

Beam type rockers, leaf springs with a rocker in the middle rather than eyes/slippers. They're just the most common off the top of my head

[pop058]

Beam type rockers, leaf springs with a rocker in the middle rather than eyes/slippers. They're just the most common off the top of my head



136977

[nrs91]

yea in the UK that is just reserved for larger vehicles so the car trailers suffer unequal loads if they arent level.