Need to restore faith !!

[pjgrandad]

Hi, I have a 2013 Disco 4 HSE 3.0 lt diesel, have had it for about two and half years and is a great tow vehicle. We did a 19,000 klms around Australia trip last year towing an off-road van, loaded around 3.3 tonne, got home mid November. Disco was faultless until about 200 k`s from home when it went into limp mode with reduced engine performance. Pulled over turned off engine, waited 3 or 4 mins, re-started all good. Did this about 8 times for the 200 k`s home. After a few days I took Disco to the nearest Land rover dealership, diagnosis failed LHS turbo. I questioned the diagnosis with the service manager with what I believed was an electrical issue because the fault would clear after re-starting. He said we have checked everything an its no doubt LHS turbo failure. Well thank god for extended warranty... 7 weeks later and repair job cost of $16,360. LHS turbo replacement...you don`t do one with out the other they said, so new RHS turbo as well. Body had to be removed from chassis for this to be done.
I asked them to keep both the old turbo`s for me to see. Mechanically both turbo`s were fine. The problem was the little 12 v actuator motor on the LHS turbo had failed. This little motor controls a link that varies the turbo`s output. This vehicle is a bit over 4 years old and has 92,000 k`s on it and has always been land rover serviced.
I have lost a lot of faith in this now, to think that a little 12 volt motor potentially could cost another $16,000 plus, down the road somewhere an no extended warranty!!!
Has anybody out there had an issue with this ? I don`t know how common this is...I might have been just unlucky !! I would have expected that the Disco would do high k`s ( high 200`s into 300`s) with out too much drama. Anybody share your thoughts, and has anyone got the 3.0 t diesel 8 speed with high k`s without too many dramas.
There are not a lot of options out there for good 3.5 tonne tow wagons.
Cheers
pjgrandad

[Tombie]

Mate you got scammed...

You can replace just that unit, often you can just free it up... dealers have all done a few single turbo replacements without any problem.

How they came up with $16k for 2 turbos and a body off is daylight robbery...

Btw - wait until an injector goes on a Toyota for real financial pain!

[Ean Austral]

Hi, I have a 2013 Disco 4 HSE 3.0 lt diesel, have had it for about two and half years and is a great tow vehicle. We did a 19,000 klms around Australia trip last year towing an off-road van, loaded around 3.3 tonne, got home mid November. Disco was faultless until about 200 k`s from home when it went into limp mode with reduced engine performance. Pulled over turned off engine, waited 3 or 4 mins, re-started all good. Did this about 8 times for the 200 k`s home. After a few days I took Disco to the nearest Land rover dealership, diagnosis failed LHS turbo. I questioned the diagnosis with the service manager with what I believed was an electrical issue because the fault would clear after re-starting. He said we have checked everything an its no doubt LHS turbo failure. Well thank god for extended warranty... 7 weeks later and repair job cost of $16,360. LHS turbo replacement...you don`t do one with out the other they said, so new RHS turbo as well. Body had to be removed from chassis for this to be done.
I asked them to keep both the old turbo`s for me to see. Mechanically both turbo`s were fine. The problem was the little 12 v actuator motor on the LHS turbo had failed. This little motor controls a link that varies the turbo`s output. This vehicle is a bit over 4 years old and has 92,000 k`s on it and has always been land rover serviced.
I have lost a lot of faith in this now, to think that a little 12 volt motor potentially could cost another $16,000 plus, down the road somewhere an no extended warranty!!!
Has anybody out there had an issue with this ? I don`t know how common this is...I might have been just unlucky !! I would have expected that the Disco would do high k`s ( high 200`s into 300`s) with out too much drama. Anybody share your thoughts, and has anyone got the 3.0 t diesel 8 speed with high k`s without too many dramas.
There are not a lot of options out there for good 3.5 tonne tow wagons.
Cheers
pjgrandad

I hate reading stories like this. Car tows a offroad van 19,000ks and altho the last 200ks were not faultless it made it home, and then thru what seems like a incompetent dealer someone is questioning the vehicle.

You should be complaining to L/R Australia, especially if what Tombie says is true and the 12v actuator motor can be replaced separately. I would have thought the dealer would have needed to consult with you first before getting the approval to replace the non faulty turbo.

I hope your faith gets restored in the car as it sounds as tho your trip would have been a good one.

Cheers Ean

[specwarop]

If you want reliability, get a Prado.
Land Rovers have a horrible reputation for reliability in the UK...

[Geedublya]

If you want reliability, get a Prado.
Land Rovers have a horrible reputation for reliability in the UK...

Prado can't tow 3.3 tonne.

[Tombie]

If you want reliability, get a Prado.
Land Rovers have a horrible reputation for reliability in the UK...

Prado aren’t reliable either.. bloody horrible POS....

LR has a reputation by volume... of course they’re going to have more failures. There’s more of them.

[plusnq]

Prado aren’t reliable either.. bloody horrible POS....

LR has a reputation by volume... of course they’re going to have more failures. There’s more of them.

Reputation whether deserved or not... not that great here too. But definitely not related to sales volume in Australia

[Tombie]

Reputation whether deserved or not... not that great here too. But definitely not related to sales volume in Australia

And yet I can show more issues with Toyota’s.
I’ve sat with a couple of owners just recently..

Had injector problem, steering, diffs, dash, dust coming through dash, bits cracking etc..
And they recommend them as ‘the most reliable vehicle you can get’. They aren’t alone in this attitude.

Amazing though isn’t it... my D4; 1 small rattle in the early months of ownership.

I can go get a list of vehicles awaiting parts from my mate at the Toyota dealer, it’s about a full a4 page...

[plusnq]

And yet I can show more issues with Toyota’s.
I’ve sat with a couple of owners just recently..

Had injector problem, steering, diffs, dash, dust coming through dash, bits cracking etc..
And they recommend them as ‘the most reliable vehicle you can get’. They aren’t alone in this attitude.

Amazing though isn’t it... my D4; 1 small rattle in the early months of ownership.

I can go get a list of vehicles awaiting parts from my mate at the Toyota dealer, it’s about a full a4 page...

seems a bit irrelevant given the sales number discrepancies. Obviously a percentage value would be more indicative. I would think that maybe a customers willingness to repurchase that brand would be a possible useful data point. Some sales numbers from March 2017 to illustrate how small the number of Discoverys are sold v other models.136804

[101RRS]

When did the D4 get stopped neing sold new in Aust - around then or a little later - old vehicle with a new one coming - people are reluctant to buy when a completely new vehicle is about to come out. See the Disco Sport and RRS numbers - the proper Disco will normally outsell a RRS yet it is way down.

Do you really think the Ranger is the best 4wd - people buy cars that are the best, they buy for a whole bunch of reasons, many of which mean they do not get the best vehicle for them - and that also applies to LR buyers.

Toyotas (and Landrovers) are no better or worse than any other vehicle - unfortunately too many people believe the advertising with Toyotas. Even Toyota are putting disclaimers in their last lot of ads that they don't float as some people thought their Toyotas would be OK after they drove it off a cliff into the sea as they depicted in a past ad campaign.

[Ean Austral]

Lucky you guys aren't in the marine game.

D4 tows a offroad van 200kgs under its max weight 18,800kms trouble free and manages to get the last 200ks under its own steam and then does a few days driving before taken into the dealer and is diagnosed with a 12v actuator problem on the turbo. It never blew an engine and left anyone stranded or anything like that. Certainly not unreliable in my eyes.

We are going thru a battle with a major engine company whose $215,000 engine lasted 7 days before a major component failure. Tow job alone was over $50,000 and not counting loss of fishing time. That suppliers 15 other engines have been fine, the fact that the new one failed doesn't make us want to pull the others out and change brands.

Components fail , we all hate it but that's the joys of mechanical parts.

The real story here is about the poor and very questionable fault finding from the dealer. I hope the OP asked for the 2 turbo's back seeing he had to pay for 2 new one's.

Cheers Ean

[BobD]

I would have expected that the Disco would do high k`s ( high 200`s into 300`s) with out too much drama. Anybody share your thoughts, and has anyone got the 3.0 t diesel 8 speed with high k`s without too many dramas.
There are not a lot of options out there for good 3.5 tonne tow wagons.
Cheers
pjgrandad

From my experience the money starts to flow around 200,000km, as long as you maintain the transmission. If you don't, transmission replacement can be early 100's.

There is no way that the turbos needed replacing in that car. I assume from your post that extended warranty paid for the whole lot so it was not too bad for you. I just hope it wasn't a split plastic inlet manifold after all that work was done for nothing. That is more likely from your symptoms, unless they replaced them as well. I very much doubt that the actuator was the problem but hopefully they are correct and it fixes the problem.

[CB55]

Prado can't tow 3.3 tonne.
Have just upgraded to a 16.5 SDV HSE, from a 2.8L Prado. The Prado would tow our 2400kg AOR Quantum, but in 4th gear, using enormous amounts of fuel. The 6 speed transmission in the newer Prados is rubbish. It will not change into 6th unless you are approaching 100kmh, and lift your right foot, as if you are changing a manual box. It hunts for gears continually, and that’s without towing anything.
The Discovery we just got will tow in 8th gear, up hill and down dale, and sit on the speed limit doing it.
Wonderful car. Was it worth the premium price? You bet.
Chris

[DazzaTD5]

oh gawd... not another Land Rover vs Toyota thread again, its as bad as the EV threads [tonguewink][tonguewink]

Actually its amazing that overall motor vehicles are so reliable, regardless of brand and even more so that they all dont burst into flames (unless its a Ford).
The average Jo that complains about their car breaking down at 100K.... thats 2.5 times around the planet (Earth). No other form of transport throughout history has proved to be more reliable than the motor vehicle.

When I read such bull**** as a dealer quoting $16K to change a turbo reminds me that in general, dealers are scumbags (personal opinion).

On average I get far more poorly maintained, broken and butchered vehicles that have only ever been serviced by a dealer. Just money for jam from cashcow customers. (no mention of the brand).

[donh54]

Yep, dealers are the last people I would send a vehicle to! Admittedly in the OP's case, it was under an extended warranty, so not much choice there.
Our nearest local dealer went leg up a few years ago (dunno how, with the rates they used to charge!). Another mob took over the LR dealership. I dropped into their service department one day, to get some info re: the P38A. They did a bit of digging, and humming and harring, then came back and said they didn't have any info on anything "that old" - it's a '99 model!
Apparently, when they took over the dealership, they decided to save money by only buying the software and data access package from LRA for models from 2005 onwards. Unbelievable!

[BobD]

Yeah, dealers don't like servicing old cars. They have their book times and they are way too short for all the things that go wrong when fixing older vehicles. A few years ago I bought a second hand Kawasaki GTR 1000 motorcycle over ten years old from a dealer and rang them up for a service after a few months. They told me they don't service bikes that old and to go down the road to an independent service mob who can charge for all the extra time they need to spend. It was a good outcome but it did surprise me at the time.

[justinc]

Im not servicing some older vehicles now either...😣

[scarry]

oh gawd... not another Land Rover vs Toyota thread again, its as bad as the EV threads [tonguewink][tonguewink]

Actually its amazing that overall motor vehicles are so reliable, regardless of brand and even more so that they all dont burst into flames (unless its a Ford).
The average Jo that complains about their car breaking down at 100K.... thats 2.5 times around the planet (Earth). No other form of transport throughout history has proved to be more reliable than the motor vehicle.

When I read such bull**** as a dealer quoting $16K to change a turbo reminds me that in general, dealers are scumbags (personal opinion).

On average I get far more poorly maintained, broken and butchered vehicles that have only ever been serviced by a dealer. Just money for jam from cashcow customers. (no mention of the brand).

The worse workmanship i have ever seen on a vehicle was done by an LR dealer,they give the brand a very bad name.There are a few good ones around,if your lucky to find one,but most are not good at all.

I heard recently from a very good source that there are 5 late model LR's at the local dealer that they can't sort,owners won't give their loan cars back,want a refund for their vehicles.


And as for our work vans,they all go to the Tojo,local dealer,never had an issue.In fact,the four i have at the moment,two have close to 300K on them,never had an issue.They run all day,fully loaded,almost on GVM.

[trout1105]

On the "Older" vehicles it is a piece of cake doing a regular service yourself and you don't have to hold a doctorate of Engineering to do the job yourself, Why would you bother to go to a dealership for a simple oil/filter change.
I do agree that many dealerships sting like wounded bulls and "Flim Flam" their customers But luckily for Me my Landrover indi charges less than most other workshops in town and their quoted timeframes and costs have always been "Spot On".
They have also Never done any unnecessary work or replaced any unnecessary parts and I am completely happy with the work they have done for Me.[thumbsupbig]

[justinc]

On the "Older" vehicles it is a piece of cake doing a regular service yourself and you don't have to hold a doctorate of Engineering to do the job yourself, Why would you bother to go to a dealership for a simple oil/filter change.
I do agree that many dealerships sting like wounded bulls and "Flim Flam" their customers But luckily for Me my Landrover indi charges less than most other workshops in town and their quoted timeframes and costs have always been "Spot On".
They have also Never done any unnecessary work or replaced any unnecessary parts and I am completely happy with the work they have done for Me.[thumbsupbig]

Wyatts... 😎👍👍👍👍

[Tombie]

The worse workmanship i have ever seen on a vehicle was done by an LR dealer,they give the brand a very bad name.There are a few good ones around,if your lucky to find one,but most are not good at all.

I heard recently from a very good source that there are 5 late model LR's at the local dealer that they can't sort,owners won't give their loan cars back,want a refund for their vehicles.


And as for our work vans,they all go to the Tojo,local dealer,never had an issue.In fact,the four i have at the moment,two have close to 300K on them,never had an issue.They run all day,fully loaded,almost on GVM.

If you lived around here (or a one either side) you’d say exactly the same thing about Toyota dealers [emoji48]

And Holden dealers, and Jeep dealers!!

[trout1105]

Wyatts... 😎👍👍👍👍

Crikey, Even you Mob in Tazzie have heard about them [thumbsupbig]

[justinc]

Crikey, Even you Mob in Tazzie have heard about them [thumbsupbig]

Actually going to drop in there and visit in the near future ☺

[trout1105]

Let me know when you are in town [thumbsupbig]

[justinc]

Let me know when you are in town [thumbsupbig]

Was going to yes☺

[DiscoJeffster]

Of course the dealer charged that. As soon as he heard warranty he was all over the gravy train. Disappointing obviously. It pushes everyone’s premiums up.

[Tombie]

Of course the dealer charged that. As soon as he heard warranty he was all over the gravy train. Disappointing obviously. It pushes everyone’s premiums up.

That’s it hey!
Insurance assessors need to be more vigilant in some things (and less aggressive in others)..

[DiscoJeffster]

That’s it hey!
Insurance assessors need to be more vigilant in some things (and less aggressive in others)..

They’re so uneducated. Low paying job, untrained to modern LR standards. They have little chance of stopping it sadly

[geoffmc]

If you want reliability, get a Prado.
Land Rovers have a horrible reputation for reliability in the UK...

I had a Prado, nice car, but doesn't stir the soul to drive like the D4 does. Reliable, kinda, but google Prado Diff club. I did my rear diff turning around in my yard and the dealer had the nerve to accuse me of fitting an aftermarket rear diff lock that caused the crown wheel to shear teeth off. BTW, i had a Kakadu with the factory rear locker and had 82,000 km on it.

cheers
Geoff

[Ean Austral]

I had a Prado, nice car, but doesn't stir the soul to drive like the D4 does. Reliable, kinda, but google Prado Diff club. I did my rear diff turning around in my yard and the dealer had the nerve to accuse me of fitting an aftermarket rear diff lock that caused the crown wheel to shear teeth off. BTW, i had a Kakadu with the factory rear locker and had 82,000 km on it.

cheers
Geoff

Wow , I had a read of the prado diff club. Seems the accepted fix amongst the faithful is to fork out for twin lockers. Full credit to Toyota they replaced the diffs under warranty , even 3 times on 1 car. The faithful certainly have a different approach to other owners , but Toyota seem to be far better at solving issues than L/R from what I have read.

Cheers Ean

[Tombie]

Wow , I had a read of the prado diff club. Seems the accepted fix amongst the faithful is to fork out for twin lockers. Full credit to Toyota they replaced the diffs under warranty , even 3 times on 1 car. The faithful certainly have a different approach to other owners , but Toyota seem to be far better at solving issues than L/R from what I have read.

Cheers Ean

Full credit until you realise one club member waited without a vehicle for 7 weeks for it to come from Japan!

Then he had the dust problem through the firewall.

[Ean Austral]

Full credit until you realise one club member waited without a vehicle for 7 weeks for it to come from Japan!

Then he had the dust problem through the firewall.

The Original Poster doesn't say if the dealer gave him a loan car , but he waited 7 weeks for his car to return.

Certainly my experience with L/R and the warranty system , and complaints to L/R Australia about a WA dealership were woeful to say the least. 6 letters and several phone calls just to get an acknowledgement they received my complaints. Actually 15 odd years later and I still haven't received anything back from L/R Australia.

Anyway hopefully the Original Poster see's this for what it really is , a dealership who seems to have no clue and no morals, and it might be time for him to source a good independent service centre.

Cheers Ean

[PeterJ]

Yeah curious about dealers. My mate came around last week, put his just serviced (as in the previous week) and very nearly out of warranty D4 up on the hoist to have a look around. Pulled the engine cover for a better look and saw an engine oil leak r/h rear of the motor, below starter motor. So back to the dealer he goes and the diagnosis is leaking sump gasket, 3 day job which necessitates front Diff removal. When asked why they didn't pick it up at the previous week service the reply was "we didn't think it was important ".
Makes no sense to me on any level other than the tech doing the work didn't care.
Interestingly, the whole thing spooked my mate and he decided to shelve out the $2k+ for an extended warranty. Perhaps there is method in the madness.
Peter

[Disco-tastic]

From reading this thread it seems that the warranty is not for protecting you from poor build quality or faulty items, but rather dodgy dealer workmanship

[DiscoJeffster]

From reading this thread it seems that the warranty is not for protecting you from poor build quality or faulty items, but rather dodgy dealer workmanship

I wonder however if the dealer would have had the same diagnosis if warranty wasn’t involved. I would expect not.....

[trout1105]

I wonder however if the dealer would have had the same diagnosis if warranty wasn’t involved. I would expect not.....

I suspect you are right, Much like just about any other insurance job on a car that gets padded by the panel beaters [bigwhistle]

[Ean Austral]

I wonder however if the dealer would have had the same diagnosis if warranty wasn’t involved. I would expect not.....

Maybe the O/P should think that he is in front having 2 new turbo's fitted , so should be turbo trouble free for many kms to come. [thumbsupbig]

Cheers Ean

[Mick_Marsh]

The problem was the little 12 v actuator motor on the LHS turbo had failed. This little motor controls a link that varies the turbo`s output.

Has anybody out there had an issue with this ?
Not with a Landrover but I know people with Ford Falcon and Territory turbos of about 10yo that have had this problem. A common problem. They just replaced the actuators. A bugger of a job apparently.
I wonder, in their case, if it would be easier just to replace the whole turbo? Would be more expensive I suspect.

[BobD]

Yeah curious about dealers. My mate came around last week, put his just serviced (as in the previous week) and very nearly out of warranty D4 up on the hoist to have a look around. Pulled the engine cover for a better look and saw an engine oil leak r/h rear of the motor, below starter motor. So back to the dealer he goes and the diagnosis is leaking sump gasket, 3 day job which necessitates front Diff removal. When asked why they didn't pick it up at the previous week service the reply was "we didn't think it was important ".
Peter

There is a Bulletin on Topix about this, telling dealers not to replace the sump gasket because that is not where the leak is. It is usually coming from somewhere else and reading between the lines, they are sick of paying out warranty work for misdiagnosed sump gasket leaks. My 2010 D4 has had a couple of leaks that at first glance looked like sump gasket or rear main and none of them were related to either of them. The most serious leak turned out to be a stripped sump plug and you would swear it was not coming from the sump plug until you do a proper leak test after cleaning everything up properly. The indie thought it was a leaking oil evacuation tube for some time until one of the guys finally found the real problem. At 275000 km, still no engine leaks once the minor peripheral things were fixed.

[scarry]

I had a Prado, nice car, but doesn't stir the soul to drive like the D4 does. Reliable, kinda, but google Prado Diff club. I did my rear diff turning around in my yard and the dealer had the nerve to accuse me of fitting an aftermarket rear diff lock that caused the crown wheel to shear teeth off. BTW, i had a Kakadu with the factory rear locker and had 82,000 km on it.

cheers
Geoff

Hi aces do the occasional diff as well,normally its bearings.

Quite a few Defenders on here with diffs replaced under warranty,and clutches,now we won't mention adapter shafts.........[bigsad]

If you looked at the actual figures of vehicle failures,in a % to the number sold,i bet the Japanese vehicles % would be quite low compared to many others,particularly European vehicles.

These figures are never available,but if you talk to tow truck/tilt tray guys,what i have implied isn't far off the mark.

[DazzaTD5]

Hi, I have a 2013 Disco 4 HSE 3.0 lt diesel, have had it for about two and half years .....

To the OP, you dont live in Perth W.A ?

I only ask this as I have had at least 6 Discovery 4 3.0lt that were mis-diagnosed with secondary turbo failed AND being changed out, to have the fault remain or come back shortly after. ALL had been done at one ........ workshop...... and it was NOT any independent land Rover repairer.

[geoffmc]

Wow , I had a read of the prado diff club. Seems the accepted fix amongst the faithful is to fork out for twin lockers. Full credit to Toyota they replaced the diffs under warranty , even 3 times on 1 car. The faithful certainly have a different approach to other owners , but Toyota seem to be far better at solving issues than L/R from what I have read.

Cheers Ean
Hi Ean,

The fix wasnt fitting twin lockers, as the problems was traced back to bad forging from the foundry that Toyota were using for a period of approx 2 years, as the crown wheel and pinion were stripping teeth. I was really unimpressed at the time, as the Prado was the least used offroad or towing of any vehicle i have owned. They did come to the party in the end, only after 4 weeks arguing and me eventually involving legal correspondence.

So far, the dealer i purchased my D4 from have been fantastic, both sales and after sales. I just love my disco and cant compare anything i have previously owned against it.

cheers
Geoff

[Ean Austral]

Hi Ean,

The fix wasnt fitting twin lockers, as the problems was traced back to bad forging from the foundry that Toyota were using for a period of approx 2 years, as the crown wheel and pinion were stripping teeth. I was really unimpressed at the time, as the Prado was the least used offroad or towing of any vehicle i have owned. They did come to the party in the end, only after 4 weeks arguing and me eventually involving legal correspondence.

So far, the dealer i purchased my D4 from have been fantastic, both sales and after sales. I just love my disco and cant compare anything i have previously owned against it.

cheers
Geoff

Gday Geoff,

I read 1 comment where 1 of the Prado owners said that Toyota run out of steel when they got to the diffs and made them out of porcelain [bigrolf][bigrolf]

Sorry to read that you had to go to that extent to get your Prado fixed. Very glad to read how happy you are with the D4 , and the dealer support you have received. I only ever bought 1 L/R from a dealer , never never ever again will that dealer see me or any of my hard earned again.

Cheers Ean

[pjgrandad]

To the OP, you dont live in Perth W.A ?

I only ask this as I have had at least 6 Discovery 4 3.0lt that were mis-diagnosed with secondary turbo failed AND being changed out, to have the fault remain or come back shortly after. ALL had been done at one ........ workshop...... and it was NOT any independent land Rover repairer.

No, I`m from N.S.W. Repair was done at a Land rover dealership.

[martnH]

I think the OP was talking about losing faith 8n land rover dealership because of the repair price being too high....

Third party insurance will incur inflated price.....I guess if it's out of pocket from you, it will cost less.

Because it not you or the dealer who pays for the repairs, so who cares how much it costs....The insurance company should be complaining

But you are right. I don't have much faith in dealers.
Their job is to sell new cars as many as possible. Their repair/maintenance department is only there for the warranty period. And it seems they can only replace not repair parts...

So I wouldn't expect them to fix the little motor for you. Again if land rover or third party insurance is paying for the repairs, dealer will like to change the whole car if that's reasonable.

If you lost faith in land rover.....I don't know they are not renowned for being reliable


Say if your Prado broke down 5 years ago, maybe you can say it's ridiculous and losing faith in this brand....

[martnH]

Dealers' actions are governed by its funding mechanism.

The cost effective repair of the turbo component is not and will never be rewarded under the franchise scheme.....

Independent repairs may be into this. But again if land rover can charge your insurance $16,000 for replacing turbos, I don't think independent repairs will be happy if paid $5000.....(Not sure the parts and labour costs...)

I don't know much about auto repair industry but I just don't think altruism exist......

Cost performance reliability...You can only pick two..

Land rover is cheap and good performance in my opinion

Toyota is reliable and (good performance also? Hehe but expensive....


Cheers
Martin

[DiscoJeffster]

Because it not you or the dealer who pays for the repairs, so who cares how much it costs....The insurance company should be complaining


We all should care. This is why the warranties cost so much. It’s fraud to be honest, performing unnecessary works, if there is an opportunity to repair it cheaper for no ongoing issue

[scarry]

Gday Geoff,

I read 1 comment where 1 of the Prado owners said that Toyota run out of steel when they got to the diffs and made them out of porcelain [bigrolf][bigrolf]

Sorry to read that you had to go to that extent to get your Prado fixed. Very glad to read how happy you are with the D4 , and the dealer support you have received. I only ever bought 1 L/R from a dealer , never never ever again will that dealer see me or any of my hard earned again.

Cheers Ean

Living in Brisbane at the time were you Ean?

Seriously, its a real shame because the vehicle brand is tarnished by these events which seem very common.

It would be good to hear from anyone that is happy with a dealer and their charges.

Tombie seems to have found the best one in the country.....[bighmmm][biggrin]

[scarry]

We all should care. This is why the warranties cost so much. It’s fraud to be honest, performing unnecessary works, if there is an opportunity to repair it cheaper for no ongoing issue

When i took out the extended warranty on my D2a,in 2007,the guy i spoke to said the insurance costs were due to have a massive increase as the dealers were ripping them off all the time,the high costs of repairs were unjustified,and they were sick of arguing with the LR dealers.

I actually got a letter in writing from them stating i could use my nominated Indy for repairs if they were needed.

With the way murphy works,the only thing that needed repair over the next three yrs was replacement of a faulty MAF sensor,which the Indy did using a genuine LR part,and was paid for under the extended warranty.

[Tombie]

It would be good to hear from anyone that is happy with a dealer and their charges.

Tombie seems to have found the best one in the country.....[bighmmm][biggrin]

Digger and Basil135 will also agree...

This is the same dealer that the Service Manager in his Jag F-Pace, drove to Melrose last year to sort a small issue on Diggers vehicle before he went away for a week.

That’s a 600+km round trip to help a client.

[Tombie]

Again as proof, Emma’s 90 is well out of warranty and the ignition barrel has started playing up.

They are replacing it under warranty next week. [emoji41]

Considering both the vehicles were under corporate servicing deals our total out of pocket on both vehicles in 6 years excluding purchase price - has been 1 service and a belt and idler change on the D4.

The belt and idler change came in at $780.00 and came with a shiny loan vehicle...

[Ean Austral]

Living in Brisbane at the time were you Ean?

Seriously, its a real shame because the vehicle brand is tarnished by these events which seem very common.

It would be good to hear from anyone that is happy with a dealer and their charges.

Tombie seems to have found the best one in the country.....[bighmmm][biggrin]

not Brisbane - the other side of the country . If they were the only place left where I could buy the parts to fix my car , I would burn it and change brands .

Cheers Ean

[trout1105]

I also don't live in Brisbane and am the opposite side of the country.
I wouldn't dream of taking my Disco anywhere But the LR indy here because of their excellent service, their work is Spot On, They use Only genuine LR parts and fluids and the labour charges are actually less expensive than the other workshops in town.
There are good and bad dealerships all over the country (Regardless of Brand) and just because someone is unlucky enough to have to deal with a shonky dealership it doesn't mean that they should all be tarnished with the same brush.
I totally refuse to use the Toyota dealership in town for our Hilux because I consider them to be Overrated, Expensive and the service is crap However my experience at the LR indy is a completely different kettle of fish.

[PeterJ]

Digger and Basil135 will also agree...

This is the same dealer that the Service Manager in his Jag F-Pace, drove to Melrose last year to sort a small issue on Diggers vehicle before he went away for a week.

That’s a 600+km round trip to help a client.

And the same dealer that serviced my mates car.............so I guess there are always cases that slip through the net. Personally, I have had excellent service from them as well so I certainly have no issues.

Peter

[Senatorjohn]

Most vehicles are let down by inadequate diagnosis by incompetent service persons. Those with any intelligence soon leave the trade, sick of poor wages and machinery that was made with parts virtually inaccessible.
John. (almost retired mechanic)

[dave in orange]

I don't know that theres faith to be restored in the L/Rs so much, but I'm getting sick of dishonest and/or incompetent service companies, dealers, call them what you will. And the more I hear about these you beaut extended warranties, the less I like the. Quick case in point, about 6 weeks ago, my son bought a 06 mitsubishi outlander (yeah yeah, I know, I tried to say it quietly lol) as he needed something a little bigger than his corolla for his growing family. As with most of us at that ago he didn't have a lot to spend and he looked around and found this car and believed he had bought wisely, and so did I. He had the car two days before it went for a ride on a tilt tray. The problem? total transmission failure. SO he contacted the dealer where he bought it and got told yeah mate no worries, you bought the extra warranty , we'll take care of it. they had the car for 1 day shy of a month to replace the tranny because the warranty mob and the trans mission place it was taken to would get their act together and get it fixed. and the dealer threw their hands in the air and said "sorry pal, not our problem". I know its been a bit long winded but my point is, I'm wondering if theres any use in these must have extended warranties or are they just a cash cow for shonky service places? I'm really getting ****ed off with these rip off artists and what burns me even more is this culture of "oooh goody, cashed up Land Rover owner with broken Land Rover. This should be a nice little earner!" And we ALL know this crap goes on, right? Sorry about the long winded rant folks but its been bugging me more and more lately. Btw, bought myself a Hawkeye Total. Best investment ever. Got rid of the 3 amigos (abs shuttle switch failure )and programmed a new key as well. Dealer wanted nearly $300 to programme alone. Hawkeye was in my opinion, money well spent. Interested to hear what you guys think. Cheers Dave in Orange

[Mr smokey]

Mate you got scammed...

You can replace just that unit, often you can just free it up... dealers have all done a few single turbo replacements without any problem.

How they came up with $16k for 2 turbos !

Similar possible issue. Same vehicle with 100k towing a slightly lower weight van on two occasions. Stoped, restarted & all appears fine. Assumed it was minor fault glitches mounting up til it hiccuped. Hopefully nothing more [bawl]

[Eastlaker]

Hi, I have a 2013 Disco 4 HSE 3.0 lt diesel, have had it for about two and half years and is a great tow vehicle. We did a 19,000 klms around Australia trip last year towing an off-road van, loaded around 3.3 tonne, got home mid November. Disco was faultless until about 200 k`s from home when it went into limp mode with reduced engine performance. Pulled over turned off engine, waited 3 or 4 mins, re-started all good. Did this about 8 times for the 200 k`s home. After a few days I took Disco to the nearest Land rover dealership, diagnosis failed LHS turbo. I questioned the diagnosis with the service manager with what I believed was an electrical issue because the fault would clear after re-starting. He said we have checked everything an its no doubt LHS turbo failure. Well thank god for extended warranty... 7 weeks later and repair job cost of $16,360. LHS turbo replacement...you don`t do one with out the other they said, so new RHS turbo as well. Body had to be removed from chassis for this to be done.
I asked them to keep both the old turbo`s for me to see. Mechanically both turbo`s were fine. The problem was the little 12 v actuator motor on the LHS turbo had failed. This little motor controls a link that varies the turbo`s output. This vehicle is a bit over 4 years old and has 92,000 k`s on it and has always been land rover serviced.
I have lost a lot of faith in this now, to think that a little 12 volt motor potentially could cost another $16,000 plus, down the road somewhere an no extended warranty!!!
Has anybody out there had an issue with this ? I don`t know how common this is...I might have been just unlucky !! I would have expected that the Disco would do high k`s ( high 200`s into 300`s) with out too much drama. Anybody share your thoughts, and has anyone got the 3.0 t diesel 8 speed with high k`s without too many dramas.
There are not a lot of options out there for good 3.5 tonne tow wagons.
Cheers
pjgrandad

I too have recently suffered a similar problem with my 2016 Discovery4. Went into limp mode on Rainbow Beach. I was told primary turbo and accuator arm. All cover by warrenty and whilst Land Rover did look after me in the end it was like pulling teeth getting someone in customer service to own and action the issue. Holiday ruined!
Yes I have no faith in the vehicle I have aspired to own and a brand I believe was the best.
Other issues have included
-3 days old the drive shaft dislodged
- Entire brake pedal box also needed to be replaced.

zero faith and if I wasn’t in a lease I would be selling it now, instead I have to wait for a year or so, to get out of this lease

[Lockers]

Hi

Getting back to the original story.
My MY12 3.0SE had the same issue nearly 2 years ago and the dealer started to head down the broken Turbo path as well. My old Technician brain kicked in and I stopped them and asked if the turbo is ok for a while every time i restart it then its not the turbo. Suffice to say the issue was the actuator for the LHS turbo which is down low on the RHS. They have the ability to do a pathway check and operate the actuator via their swanky scan tool while stationary.

Not sure if there's been a change in later models with the actuator power source but my unit is vacuum powered and the diaphragm pushed a steel pin into a steel sleeve. Because its down low it gets wet and rusts up. The replacement units (I believe later models have this) are a steel pin into a bronze doped sleeve. It can still stick if dirty but should not rust.

The interesting outcome for me I believe this issue is registered as a known issue and a bulletin issued and LR has spares on the shelf.

So.... PJGRANDAD. Don't lose the faith, my Disco has done +40k since with 22k of that last year in WA, towing including Gibb R Rd, Pilbara, Cape Leveque Tanami etc. No issue since. Heading for 170k next week 6.5years of great driving.

Remember, if you use your 4WD as a 4WD it will need work from time to time.
I feel sorry for All those folk out there esp. with LC200s that spend all their days on the black top and all their evenings washing their clean cars.
Off course they can argue their cars don't break.

Lockers

[macwood1]

Only yesterday I was given the same news on my 2012 3.0SE, 102,000 Kim’s...along with the news that the front bushes and ball joints needed replacing on the suspension as well. Initially I was told that it was due to the fact the previous owner had been towing a “heavy” caravan which would have contributed to the failure. Hmmmmmm....I am currently in the process of getting quotes from the wo Indy dealers as I am not sure I trust the diagnosis from the main dealer. If anyone has experience of good Indy dealers in south west WA that could do the necessary pathway check, I would be much obliged.


Hi

Getting back to the original story.
My MY12 3.0SE had the same issue nearly 2 years ago and the dealer started to head down the broken Turbo path as well. My old Technician brain kicked in and I stopped them and asked if the turbo is ok for a while every time i restart it then its not the turbo. Suffice to say the issue was the actuator for the LHS turbo which is down low on the RHS. They have the ability to do a pathway check and operate the actuator via their swanky scan tool while stationary.

Not sure if there's been a change in later models with the actuator power source but my unit is vacuum powered and the diaphragm pushed a steel pin into a steel sleeve. Because its down low it gets wet and rusts up. The replacement units (I believe later models have this) are a steel pin into a bronze doped sleeve. It can still stick if dirty but should not rust.

The interesting outcome for me I believe this issue is registered as a known issue and a bulletin issued and LR has spares on the shelf.

So.... PJGRANDAD. Don't lose the faith, my Disco has done +40k since with 22k of that last year in WA, towing including Gibb R Rd, Pilbara, Cape Leveque Tanami etc. No issue since. Heading for 170k next week 6.5years of great driving.

Remember, if you use your 4WD as a 4WD it will need work from time to time.
I feel sorry for All those folk out there esp. with LC200s that spend all their days on the black top and all their evenings washing their clean cars.
Off course they can argue their cars don't break.

Lockers

[Bagoo76]

Prado aren’t reliable either.. bloody horrible POS....

LR has a reputation by volume... of course they’re going to have more failures. There’s more of them.

I don’t understand your logic. By volume more Prados have been sold in Australia than Discoveries and they have had less issues. Yes the Disco is more comfortable and has a more advanced engine so although the Toyota engine is still not a POS it’s not as good as the disco. Lack of luxuries does not render it a POS either. I don’t agree that the disco is a POS either. Boy fan brand biased comments such as yours don’t bring any value to discussions which seek helpful and constructive opinions.

[Raybo]

I have a D4 2011 HSE SDV6 AND a Chevy Silverado 2017. Believe me the Silverado is what you need for your type towing

[Chops]

Digger and Basil135 will also agree...

This is the same dealer that the Service Manager in his Jag F-Pace, drove to Melrose last year to sort a small issue on Diggers vehicle before he went away for a week.

That’s a 600+km round trip to help a client.


And me!! 😁
They couldn’t do enough when I had my problem a couple of years ago. Very easy to deal with, and considering I called in from another state,, nothing mattered to them, just so long as they got me going again.
Mud was actually really very appoligetic that they couldn’t find and fix the problem. They gave me a back up plan to work with for two different scenarios, one which involved them, and one for when/if we made it back home all right.
Excellent service.

[northiam]

I jumped ship!
Life and owning 4x4 doesnt need to be so complicated!

Goodluck

[martnH]

We all should care. This is why the warranties cost so much. It’s fraud to be honest, performing unnecessary works, if there is an opportunity to repair it cheaper for no ongoing issueWell.....This is a classic insurance problem.

You as the customer with little mechanic knowledge, have to reply on your surrogate decision maker that is the mechanic to decide what you "need". This information problem (consumers are significant ignorant than the seller) will lead to supplier-induced-demand..,meaning the mechanic is Lilley to also say "maybe you want a bigger turbo mate, a exhaust is a must, and also how about a chip or remap? And also I would recommend a paint protection product. It's good for your car".

While theoretically they, the sellers have considerable conflicts of interest to offer you, the customer, a honest opinion that will be cost effective.

All these combine with a third party payer. Meaning you the customer don't pay directly, so that you don't have any brake on this spending frenzy..Hehe
This is the typical insurance ****hole scenario


Ideally I would like an Mechanic that only produce diagnosis, list of parts required and estimated labour, plus a list of potential complications due to the repair (I.e. when removing the engine, there is 15% chance the coolant hose will be damaged. No a problem you simply add 15%* coolant hose replacement cost to the estimation. But this diagnosis mechanic doesn't do the job. You pay him $400

And you take the results to someone who will do the job.....

But I am just dreaming....Haha

Cheers

[Nankas]

I don’t get why people want to get on this forum and unload on Land Rovers. I use this forum to connect about my car. The last place you would see me is on a Toyota forum trying to get some sort of sick enjoyment out of someone else’s misfortune.

I have owned Disco’s for over 20 years. Love everything about them. Best mate has owned Prados for 15 years and won’t change for his own reasons and we are all ok.

If you are truly happy with your Toyota go and enjoy it. You don’t need to justify your decision to compromise on technology and comfort by trolling this site.

[Spinner912]

Unfortunately, it seems that Land Rover Australia is open to such dealer behaviour. I am aware of several similar "repairs" which, with the benefit of further investigation and hindsight, appear to be grossly complicated and expensive. But it appears LRA is quite happy to fork out the cost, and naturally enough, the dealers are quite happy to receive it.

The work is probably done thoroughly, but also probably unnecessarily.

That I am aware of, engine changes, gearbox changes, various complicated engine parts, (and now turbine controllers), are all the subject of this behaviour.

Perhaps LRA simply doesn't care (they are probably insured anyway); perhaps they know no better. But the annoying part of all of this is that in the long run, it is costing we owners a lot more for service than it should.

But rest assured; this practice is not only with Land Rover dealers. I personally have had the experience with Ford dealers as well. Cases where enormously costly "repairs" or "replacements" have been rejected in favour of a "short cut" of simpler work which has led to many years of further, trouble free, operation of the vehicle.

It seems to be the nature of the beast.

Caveat emptor

[Bagoo76]

I don’t get why people want to get on this forum and unload on Land Rovers. I use this forum to connect about my car. The last place you would see me is on a Toyota forum trying to get some sort of sick enjoyment out of someone else’s misfortune.

I have owned Disco’s for over 20 years. Love everything about them. Best mate has owned Prados for 15 years and won’t change for his own reasons and we are all ok.

If you are truly happy with your Toyota go and enjoy it. You don’t need to justify your decision to compromise on technology and comfort by trolling this site.

I personally like Toyota’s, I also like LR as well as Nissan’s. I am a member of LR, Toyo and Nissan forums. I don’t brand bash regardless of the make of 4x4 which I own at the time. They all have their pros and cons. Fan boy was the one who decided to brand bash in lieu of providing facts and constructive information. Anyone who chooses to make those type of ignorant comments on ANY forum is wasting the readers time. Get your facts right or get some new glasses before responding to posts buddy.

[martnH]

Unfortunately, it seems that Land Rover Australia is open to such dealer behaviour. I am aware of several similar "repairs" which, with the benefit of further investigation and hindsight, appear to be grossly complicated and expensive. But it appears LRA is quite happy to fork out the cost, and naturally enough, the dealers are quite happy to receive it.

The work is probably done thoroughly, but also probably unnecessarily.

That I am aware of, engine changes, gearbox changes, various complicated engine parts, (and now turbine controllers), are all the subject of this behaviour.

Perhaps LRA simply doesn't care (they are probably insured anyway); perhaps they know no better. But the annoying part of all of this is that in the long run, it is costing we owners a lot more for service than it should.

But rest assured; this practice is not only with Land Rover dealers. I personally have had the experience with Ford dealers as well. Cases where enormously costly "repairs" or "replacements" have been rejected in favour of a "short cut" of simpler work which has led to many years of further, trouble free, operation of the vehicle.

It seems to be the nature of the beast.

Caveat emptorActually....

All I can say is this is aweflly similar to healthcare spending problem....

Actually Land Rover Australia do have a capitation payment that is to combat the inflated prices , caused by the third party payer problem I mentioned above.

The capitation payment is simply a pre-set list of labour required for a repair. Say $500 for 3 hours to replace the turbo hose, no matter what year, how dirty the thing is, how many mods the truck has that maybe in the way and you have to spend time to remove them so that dealer may end up losing money

It's a capitation payment system similar to the DRG system used in public hospitals (yeah hospitals get paid by the number of case they done, just like the dealer hehe

The capitation system will generate skimming, meaning dealers with either A. Choose the easiest of the job done and deny less profitable repairs or B. Escalate the case group to a bigger higher and more expensive case group.

This behavour is predicted by economist more than 50 years ago

this explains why dealers will either cherry pick the easy fix and do it immediately; or make the fixing bigger so that they can get more money

For example your car need a turbo hose replacement. Land rover say this repair will only be reimbursed $500. However it is likely to cost the dealer $700 in reality due to the crappy access to those components.
The dealer may say "screw this I don't want to lost money fixing stupid car" but dealer has to repair it under contact. So the dealer will say " hang on the coolant hose looks rubbed and that's no good," and it's dead easy to replace coolant hose compared to turbo hose.
So now dealer will replace both hoses and get reimbursed by Land Rover

Land rover Australia doesn't have a good solution. Otherwise LRA will be the leader in solving healthcare spending worldwide...

The only seemingly working solution is dealer get fixed salary but the workload mustn't be perceived as "too much" (this is all just plain theory....


does it make you feel any better OP?
I surely hope so. It's just human behavior under incentives and nothing else. You shouldn't have hoped for altruism or communism.

I believer every car manufacturers have the exact same problem. And it seems Toyota has a stricter capitation system making dealers really reluctant to repair anything.

Thats right. I am saying you should think land rover is great because they replace the diff etc... It's because LR dealers are financially incentived to do so

Same goes for Toyota. Their dealers may be financially incentived to deny repairs...Who knows...

Cheers
Martin

[bln]

If you want reliability, get a Prado.
Land Rovers have a horrible reputation for reliability in the UK...

I bought a brand new Prado in 2007 and it was the worst car I have ever had - I put up with it for 4 years - The injectors were faulty and Toyota would not replace them until 3 years later after continued dialogue. Due to the faulty injectors the car had very poor performance and the motor rattled and pinged badly when cold. After a trip to the Kimberlys the inner guards under the bonnet cracked and the thing rattled like a bucket of bolts. you could hear me coming from a mile away. The Toyota bullbar fell to pieces and I lost my expensive driving lights on the Mitchell Falls track. Took the car to Darwin toyota and they would not fix the bullbar under warranty and in any case they did not have any in stock. Transfer case oil leaks, front shocker lower bushes required replacing 3 times over the 4 years of ownership and the rear handbrake assembly broke on the Oodnadatta track. Could not get the disk rotor off to repair due to the handbrake mechanism jammed. Servicing was expensive.
Got rid of the thing and bought a used Range Rover Sport and stuck with land rovers ever since due to comfort and reliability. I haven't heard of any 'horrible reputations" in the UK - the disco 1's and early freelanders had some issues but I haven't heard of the later models having any issues - no more than any other vehicle.

[specwarop]

I bought a brand new Prado in 2007 and it was the worst car I have ever had - I put up with it for 4 years - The injectors were faulty and Toyota would not replace them until 3 years later after continued dialogue. Due to the faulty injectors the car had very poor performance and the motor rattled and pinged badly when cold. After a trip to the Kimberlys the inner guards under the bonnet cracked and the thing rattled like a bucket of bolts. you could hear me coming from a mile away. The Toyota bullbar fell to pieces and I lost my expensive driving lights on the Mitchell Falls track. Took the car to Darwin toyota and they would not fix the bullbar under warranty and in any case they did not have any in stock. Transfer case oil leaks, front shocker lower bushes required replacing 3 times over the 4 years of ownership and the rear handbrake assembly broke on the Oodnadatta track. Could not get the disk rotor off to repair due to the handbrake mechanism jammed. Servicing was expensive.
Got rid of the thing and bought a used Range Rover Sport and stuck with land rovers ever since due to comfort and reliability. I haven't heard of any 'horrible reputations" in the UK - the disco 1's and early freelanders had some issues but I haven't heard of the later models having any issues - no more than any other vehicle.



Go do all those things again with the Range Rover Sport, and let us know how it goes.

[bln]

Go do all those things again with the Range Rover Sport, and let us know how it goes.
I did - Rudall River National Park, Gary Junction, Lorella Springs and much more - the only problem that I ever had was a brake sensor came loose and I kept getting a brake pad warning.
My current vehicle is a Discovery D4 - My wife and I have been travelling for 18months and travelled 111,000ks since jan 2016 - Cape York, Arnhem Land, the gulf country, Diamantina lakes, great central highway, Binns track, Birdsville, Karijini, Ningaloo and much more - the car has been faultless - not even a single warranty claim. The only fault I had was just last month when we were back at home - a split radiator hose which was replaced at no cost. Not a fault of land rover - just one of this things.
cheers

[PerthDisco]

I did - Rudall River National Park, Gary Junction, Lorella Springs and much more - the only problem that I ever had was a brake sensor came loose and I kept getting a brake pad warning.
My current vehicle is a Discovery D4 - My wife and I have been travelling for 18months and travelled 111,000ks since jan 2016 - Cape York, Arnhem Land, the gulf country, Diamantina lakes, great central highway, Binns track, Birdsville, Karijini, Ningaloo and much more - the car has been faultless - not even a single warranty claim. The only fault I had was just last month when we were back at home - a split radiator hose which was replaced at no cost. Not a fault of land rover - just one of this things.
cheers

Mike drop - *boom* [emoji441]

[owlie]

I did - Rudall River National Park, Gary Junction, Lorella Springs and much more - the only problem that I ever had was a brake sensor came loose and I kept getting a brake pad warning.
My current vehicle is a Discovery D4 - My wife and I have been travelling for 18months and travelled 111,000ks since jan 2016 - Cape York, Arnhem Land, the gulf country, Diamantina lakes, great central highway, Binns track, Birdsville, Karijini, Ningaloo and much more - the car has been faultless - not even a single warranty claim. The only fault I had was just last month when we were back at home - a split radiator hose which was replaced at no cost. Not a fault of land rover - just one of this things.
cheers


Have the same vehicle, my 10th landrover & the best ever. 90ks four times around /across Aussie from GibbRiver to Cape York & Savannah Way etc. Never a problem, put on a snorkel, remap, extra tank & 18" Compomotives from GOE.
Fantastic vehicle.

[austeve01]

Thanks pjgrandad.

I have a RRTDV8 (3.6L) which 15 months ago I had a similar issue. On a trip Brisbane to Sydney towing a 2 tonne van after about 6 hours of travel the vehicle went into limp mode registering an 'engine system fault'. After pulling over and switching of the engine for 4-5 mins, I restarted the engine and was able to continue on for 15-20 mins before the same thing happened again. This occurred another 3-4 times before I was able to get an independent LR guy at Armidale to check out the fault. It appeared the fault had something to do with the one of the MAP sensors. He cleaned both sensors and said see how you go! Travelled another 20 mins and same thing again. By this time I was really nicked off (as was my wife!!). Sat for about 15 mins considering our options. Finally decided to push on to Tamworth and got the dealer to run their diagnostic test computer to see what the problem was. Result ... couldn't fault anything. Continued on to Sydney then returned a few days later with no recurrence of the issue. 2 weeks ago whilst towing the van for about 5 hours the problem resurfaced again (3 times). Eventually arrived at our destination, stayed 4 days returned to Brisbane and not had the issue since. This only ever occurs when I am towing the van ... never when driving the vehicle by itself. I'm taking it t M R at Redcliffe to see if they can work out what's going on. Not sure whether this engine has the same arrangement as your D4 with that 12v actuator but I'll be asking the guys at M R if it could have anything to do with it.

Thanks for sharing

Cheers
Steve

[DiscoJeffster]

Thanks pjgrandad.

I have a RRTDV8 (3.6L) which 15 months ago I had a similar issue. On a trip Brisbane to Sydney towing a 2 tonne van after about 6 hours of travel the vehicle went into limp mode registering an 'engine system fault'. After pulling over and switching of the engine for 4-5 mins, I restarted the engine and was able to continue on for 15-20 mins before the same thing happened again. This occurred another 3-4 times before I was able to get an independent LR guy at Armidale to check out the fault. It appeared the fault had something to do with the one of the MAP sensors. He cleaned both sensors and said see how you go! Travelled another 20 mins and same thing again. By this time I was really nicked off (as was my wife!!). Sat for about 15 mins considering our options. Finally decided to push on to Tamworth and got the dealer to run their diagnostic test computer to see what the problem was. Result ... couldn't fault anything. Continued on to Sydney then returned a few days later with no recurrence of the issue. 2 weeks ago whilst towing the van for about 5 hours the problem resurfaced again (3 times). Eventually arrived at our destination, stayed 4 days returned to Brisbane and not had the issue since. This only ever occurs when I am towing the van ... never when driving the vehicle by itself. I'm taking it t M R at Redcliffe to see if they can work out what's going on. Not sure whether this engine has the same arrangement as your D4 with that 12v actuator but I'll be asking the guys at M R if it could have anything to do with it.

Thanks for sharing

Cheers
Steve

There will be codes that are an indication. I had similar issues when towing and it was related to the increased load compared to normal. My issues were air leaks - cracked plastic piece that was only slightly cracked and under normal loads didn’t leak enough to flag an alert. Once the trailer was attached, the load increased to the point of fault. A smoke test found the leak and no issues since.

[pastor098]

Mike drop - *boom* [emoji441]

hahaha - Gold.

[martnH]

......
Okay this thread has become the fight ground of brands....

Just want to point out Anecdotal evidence is often not meaningful. Not to mention your anecdote is so emotional. You will need statistical evidence to prove the anecdote is typical. It doesn't matter if your land rover can get the Mars, because the rest probably can't.

So from this point of view, if you have a reliable land rover, don't think all land rover are reliable just because of your own experience. And don't think some others who have a unreliable land rover are lying....


At the end of the day, you love Land Rover/ Toyota, but these company will never love you back. You paid money and they sell you a car. not your girlfriend don't be so sensitive

[away]

There is a Bulletin on Topix about this, telling dealers not to replace the sump gasket because that is not where the leak is. It is usually coming from somewhere else and reading between the lines, they are sick of paying out warranty work for misdiagnosed sump gasket leaks. My 2010 D4 has had a couple of leaks that at first glance looked like sump gasket or rear main and none of them were related to either of them. The most serious leak turned out to be a stripped sump plug and you would swear it was not coming from the sump plug until you do a proper leak test after cleaning everything up properly. The indie thought it was a leaking oil evacuation tube for some time until one of the guys finally found the real problem. At 275000 km, still no engine leaks once the minor peripheral things were fixed.

True. I had my Disco 4 in to a Dealer last week for a service and navigation disk update. What a fiasco! I won't go into detail but long story short, even with 6 weeks notice (and two reminders in the meantime) they didn't organise to have the new navigation disk on hand, they diagnosed that the vehicle was pulling to the left and needed a wheel alignment (when what it really was, was that they had rotated the tyres and when they rejigged the tyre pressures, the valve in the front left tyre stuck and had let the air back out of the tyre - it was 10 psi, no wonder it pulled left!), they diagnosed a valve cover gasket leak, which turned out to be oil they spilled when filling the engine with new oil and they diagnosed a gasket leak in the transmission sump (I've had the transmission mod done) which turned out to actually be a correct diagnosis! I'll be getting that fixed by an indi, I'm completely over dealers.

Previously I had a suspension compressor replaced, which turned out to just be the dryer crystals and I've had the two front airbag/strut assemblies replaced, which actually turned out to be a stuck valve-block and nothing was wrong with the struts. Both were diagnosed by a dealer and both were wrong. In both cases I've mentioned, the dealers are "multi-dealers" and sell just about every known brand of European vehicle. I think that they spread themselves too thinly and I suspect that their training is either inadequate, or they don't have a "Land Rover expert", or both.

Rusty

[cripesamighty]

“I think that they spread themselves too thinly and I suspect that their training is either inadequate, or they don't have a "Land Rover expert", or both.”

You are probably onto it. But then you also have the extreme version of this, and in this case I have never seen anything like it. There is a new Indi (who shall remain nameless) in my home town, who advertises that they specialise in certain vehicles (including Land Rovers) but don’t have any mechanics who have worked on them, just one specific brand of car - and it’s not Land Rover.

I have personally seen a couple of vehicles who were ‘looked after’ by these guys and it wasn’t a pretty picture. The D3 I looked at very closely had virtually been destroyed by what could only be described as gross stupidity and then a bit of malice. Personal opinion of course. (have edited out the malicious damage and things they screwed up to stay within rules)

The repair bill to replace missing and damaged components and then actually fix this D3 will end up clocking around $20k. If that had happened to me (not to a young lad) I would have sued them back to the stone age. With those sort of antics it probably won’t be long before someone else does though.

Personally, I go to an Indi who loves the brand and knows what they are doing. If you can't do the work yourself, these sort of workshops make owning a more specialised car a pleasure and are worth their weight in gold.
Caveat Emptor......

Mods - please delete whatever is required to stay within the forums rules, re: identifying anyone.

[austeve01]

There will be codes that are an indication. I had similar issues when towing and it was related to the increased load compared to normal. My issues were air leaks - cracked plastic piece that was only slightly cracked and under normal loads didn’t leak enough to flag an alert. Once the trailer was attached, the load increased to the point of fault. A smoke test found the leak and no issues since.

Thanks DiscoJeffsetter ... I'll be following up on your advice. Come to think of it the dealer in Tamworth did mention something about doing a smoke test in the future ... for some reason I promptly forgot about it.

Cheers.

[DIS4]

It is great to see pros, cons that come with the brand we suppose to trust. In the end, it isn’t about the car but the people who are around it, dealership and LRA. It is going to be an issue if those people don’t care about you while you are in trouble, or can’t provide the help we deserve.

I had own my D4 almost 3 years, but went back to the dealer for warranty work more than 3 times, twice cut short my holiday plan. I almost lost my faith after I complained to LRA as one of the member suggested, it seems that customer service show no sympathy to the circumstances and asked me to go to dealer if any problems.

I had known that I didn’t pick up a D4 for its reliability, but it’s camel trophy story led my dream to overlanding and adventures. I still want to pursue my dreams with my D4 after all, built up my gears and knowledge about D4. I refused to switch to my Toyo friends, told them that the experience like going out with hot mistress and you had to pay the price. They might never have such feeling since they so originary, no one will look up at them.

I also got myself cover with 3rd party extended warranty. Just a quick note that I would like go to the dealership if the owner is passionate about the LR they drive. My dealer want too bad in service.

Cheers

[pastor098]

Fact of the matter is, each brand/car has their faults. Some are lemons, some just don't break. Not mechanical, but my mother-in-law's 2014 Prado has a dead radio/multimedia display, just out of warranty. Turns out it's a pretty common problem. Will they replace it under warranty, not sure yet. $1,300 to replace if not. Pretty crap that it's still so young, cost her $65k, and now has a dead radio - and it's not a serviceable part!! Ridiculous.

[Tombie]

We had 4 stereos go on 4 Toyota’s in 2 months..
Not covered by warranty apparently..

[BrianLJ]

I had a D4 coolant leakage which was never fixed by the dealer although it was requested on every service, and the extended warranty does not cover this type of failure. Eventually I got it fixed by a local mechanic with a slightly longer hose and no problems since.
I noticed advice on UK LR sites that the D4 gearbox oil and filter should be changed every 52,000km for anyone towing heavy trailers. I pull a 3T caravan and have done so through all climates over many kms. I got my local mechanic to change my D4 HSE gearbox oil at 114,000km and he said I had just got it done in time as the oil was putrid. This does require a new metal gearbox pan and filter, but the new pan is re-usable (unlike the original plastic one).

[Tombie]

It doesn’t require the steel pan. But it’s a good improvement to reduce future service costs.

[101RRS]

This does require a new metal gearbox pan and filter, but the new pan is re-usable (unlike the original plastic one).

Yes this is a good mod but I dont know why ZF did not design the metal sump so the filter could be replaced without having to drop the sump.

All so easy at the design stage.

Garry

[Ean Austral]

Yes this is a good mod but I dont know why ZF did not design the metal sump so the filter could be replaced without having to drop the sump.

All so easy at the design stage.

Garry

Weren't they sold as sealed for life , no need to spend money thinking about it .

Cheers Ean

[l00kin4]

Weren't they sold as sealed for life , no need to spend money thinking about it .

Cheers Ean

IIRC this is a Land Rover idea, not ZF's

From the attached ZF Guide :

"Depending on the driving style, ZF recommends a transmission oil change every 80,000 to 120,000km or after 8 years at the latest"

Some have perhaps somewhat cynically suggested that "for life" may be interpreted as "for length of warranty"

David

137049

[Ean Austral]

IIRC this is a Land Rover idea, not ZF's

From the attached ZF Guide :

"Depending on the driving style, ZF recommends a transmission oil change every 80,000 to 120,000km or after 8 years at the latest"

Some have perhaps somewhat cynically suggested that "for life" may be interpreted as "for length of warranty"

David

137049

Still a bit ambitious at those numbers I think. I done my first transmission oil change at 72,000ks and that was way to long looking at the colour and smell of the oil, done another one at 92,000ks then at 140,000ks - could have stretched out maybe another 10,000ks just going on the colour of the oil.

I guess unless you have a remote filter which could be damaged , where else could you put it other than inside the sump. Im happy to drop the sump every 50-60,000ks to change the filter . Just need to remember to turn the air con off before you start as the drain runs straight down the box and you think your new gasket is leaking.

Cheers Ean

[l00kin4]

Still a bit ambitious at those numbers I think. I done my first transmission oil change at 72,000ks and that was way to long looking at the colour and smell of the oil, done another one at 92,000ks then at 140,000ks - could have stretched out maybe another 10,000ks just going on the colour of the oil.

Im happy to drop the sump every 50-60,000ks to change the filter .

Cheers Ean

Agree. I had mine partially flushed at 65,000 David

[Tombie]

The most dangerous misinterpretation of “for life” is to assume it means the life of a human/the equipment.

For life actually means the expected life of the product it refers to.

Some examples:
Coil springs - expected life 40,000km (without sag)
Shock absorbers - between 50 & 100k km
Gearbox Oil - 80,000km or 8 years

Essentially clever marketing

[Salt grinder]

I hate reading stories like this. Car tows a offroad van 19,000ks and altho the last 200ks were not faultless it made it home, and then thru what seems like a incompetent dealer someone is questioning the vehicle.

You should be complaining to L/R Australia, especially if what Tombie says is true and the 12v actuator motor can be replaced separately. I would have thought the dealer would have needed to consult with you first before getting the approval to replace the non faulty turbo.

I hope your faith gets restored in the car as it sounds as tho your trip would have been a good one. Been there - done that. Ready to go again . . sooo good

Cheers Ean



Hmmm! I have almost the same model '12 SE, just a few less k's. I get the red dash light warning occasionally but no limp-mode. My IDD defines a drop in LH turbo pressure. But we have yet to get to the dealer . . . and I don't have a huge amount of faith in them anyhow. A previous service re the brake linings being worn . . . . "bring the vehicle back in 5000k and we'll change them all" it was BS, I actually took the time to measure them because I can change them myself.


Re turbo issues . . . . another similar one. My sister and BIL have a Rangie that went into limp. They saw their faithful LR repair dude (private business). He went to great detail to get the exact engine manufacture date and the computer had defined the problem being a turbo . . . he gave the matter great thought and before jumping in the deep end, decided to clean everything thoroughly in situ. He was unable to see anything untoward, but his thorough cleaning fixed the issue. He could not explain exactly where the problem had been. His fee . . . . . $600.

LRA . . . listen to your customers. It takes 2 years to win a customer . . . . 2 minutes to loose them.

Cheers
Salt grinder

[Ean Austral]

The most dangerous misinterpretation of “for life” is to assume it means the life of a human/the equipment.

For life actually means the expected life of the product it refers to.

Some examples:
Coil springs - expected life 40,000km (without sag)
Shock absorbers - between 50 & 100k km
Gearbox Oil - 80,000km or 8 years

Essentially clever marketing

I would say not very clever at all. From what I have read both here and the UK forum , it has cost L/R in the long run as plenty have said never again after having to fork out big $$ because they believed the marketing spiel and it ended up hitting them in the hip pocket.

Maybe car makers don't look for repeat customers so are happy with this approach , certainly not the way I would approach it.

Cheers Ean

[Tombie]

It’s not only LR that do it..
And both LR dealers I’ve dealt with are very clear about servicing the Transmission around the 80k mark..

[scarry]

It’s not only LR that do it..
And both LR dealers I’ve dealt with are very clear about servicing the Transmission around the 80k mark..

Toyota have weird ideas as well,and the owner can get caught out if they are not checking things.

The manual 5 speed g/box in the petrol Hilux,and Hiace,doesn't have a service up until 200000K,then the service schedule reverts back to the beginning again,starts at 0.

So at 200K,the oil needs to be replaced,but they don't do it as its not in the service schedule.

The original oil with the long drainage interval is not available(which is ridiculous,i bet it is similar to Castrol BOT used in Defender gearboxes),so they put a mineral oil in that needs changing at a mileage of 40K.

Or if you ask,a synthetic in,but will have issue of cold shift in cold weather,no matter what brand or weight, is used.

So then you need to stipulate that you want the oil changed at 40K,or they leave it at 200k,not good.

Power steering fluid is another issue,with many brands,not on service schedule to be changed,ever,but it won't last forever,far from it.