Auto 4WDing on non bitumen roads

[gavinwibrow]

The following comment was included in a Kimberley info sheet, not by the author, but by someone who wanted to make a point. I'm happy to provide the link to maintain and recognise copyright, remembering that the author does not necessarily agree/disagree with the comments below.

March 09, 2018 -- Kimberley and NT News: Wet season update, free video documentary, and a mixed bag of news and reader (http://www.kimberleyaustralia.com/Kimberley_Top_End_and_Red_Centre_News-issue63.html)

Having now driven auto 4WDs for some time, I'd be interested in the comments and experience of others. I suspect that those of us with auto constant 4WD are a little better off, and especially if we have CDL (working).

QUOTE

My concern is about hire 4wd. The concern is about the choice between automatic and manual.

My strongest possible recommendation for tourists who HAVE NOT driven IN SIMILAR RUGGED CONDITIONS as you may find in the Kimberley is that they only be supplied with manual cars.

I have noticed on my many journeys throughout the Kimberley that the vast majority of roll-overs and crashes are in automatics. There is only one way to slow down in an auto... the brake. Applied badly (on a curving, rocky, gravelly Gibb River Road) and you have a disaster.

A manual car gives an additional control over speed and slowing down is by gear first, then by brake. Automatics are like guided missiles. You don't have to actually DRIVE them. Too many first timers learn the very hard way that driving is not just sitting in the drivers seat.

END QUOTE

Cheers

[weeds]

Er.....auto have gears as well, it’s just 90% stick it in D for dumb.

I my auto hilux I use the gears very regularly whether it be holding cruise control speed on a decline, coming down the ranges to the west of Brisbane or hooking along dirt roads between sites.

[weeds]

Oh and autos probably outsell manuals 10-1

[rick130]

And most people don't gear down in a manual either, they just swap cogs in the corner.

[bee utey]

Reminds me of the girl at high school who was trained by her Ma to change gears EXACTLY like THIS: 1-2-3-4 and wondered why her car had so much trouble getting up hills. Boy was it hard to get her to use 2 or 3 as appropriate. Auto drivers can be trained to use other stick positions too.

[trout1105]

I think that Old Mate that wrote that article is talking through his bum.
The vast majority of drivers do NOT use the gears to slow down and in an emergency braking situation there is absolutely NO difference between the two types of vehicles braking performance.
If the brakes are applied badly in ANY type of vehicle things can end up "Badly"
Actually in many off road situations an auto 4WD tends to have less wheel slip so it has more control in sandy and loose gravel and more control on steep ascents and descents when driven correctly as well.

[strangy]

I read the whole news letter. It’s quite interesting.
I think the topic is neatly packaged by saying tourists are regularly irresponsible drivers and hired 4WD’s are a statistical fact.
Auto or manual has no bearing.

[gavinwibrow]

I think that Old Mate that wrote that article is talking through his bum.
The vast majority of drivers do NOT use the gears to slow down and in an emergency braking situation there is absolutely NO difference between the two types of vehicles braking performance.
If the brakes are applied badly in ANY type of vehicle things can end up "Badly"
Actually in many off road situations an auto 4WD tends to have less wheel slip so it has more control in sandy and loose gravel and more control on steep ascents and descents when driven correctly as well.

For what its worth, I completely concur. I'm actually surprised that the comment was included without getting any other advice or comment prior to publishing. Having said that, she does a marvellous job.
Cheers

[trout1105]

For what its worth, I completely concur. I'm actually surprised that the comment was included without getting any other advice or comment prior to publishing. Having said that, she does a marvellous job.
Cheers

I enjoyed the article as whole myself and I will be having a look at the 9x video's a bit later.
The part about the inconsiderate drivers on dirt roads doesn't only apply to the top end, These tossers can be found Australia wide.

[jon3950]

Bollocks. You can brake badly in a manual just as easily as in an automatic.

Its all about weight transfer, which is caused by acceleration (or deceleration if you prefer) not what causes the acceleration. If a situation arises where you need to brake hard enough to unbalance the vehicle that much you’ll be doing it with the brakes not the gears anyway. If you dropped down the gears enough to slow down that quickly you’ll probably cause compression lock-up which means you’ll lose traction anyway.

It’s all about people being inexperienced on dirt roads and driving too fast for the conditions. That is applicable no matter what the vehicle is. Besides, most of their market these days probably don’t even have a manual license.

Cheers,
Jon

[loanrangie]

Exactly, and you will find most tend to hit the clutch in panic situations which makes it worse.

[101RRS]

Certainly old style autos had a tendency to run away but that was the result of the the Torque Converter not having a lock up mechanism so no direct connection between the engine and wheels - now certainly modern Discos etc will lock their TCs in low range 1st gear and I think the latest Toyotas etc do as well. So not an issue with modern 4wds - unfortunately many commentators live in the past and don't update their ideas.

Garry

[AK83]

I think that Old Mate that wrote that article is talking through his bum.
.....

[thumbsupbig]

My initial reaction when I read this bit ...


... There is only one way to slow down in an auto... the brake.

Obviously the author could do with some driver training too! [bighmmm]

[DiscoMick]

I often used the auto manually in our D1.

[trout1105]

My thinking is that if you didn't need to use gears other than "D" and "R" they wouldn't have put the other 1, 2 and 3 on the selector [bigwhistle]

[Eevo]

My thinking is that if you didn't need to use gears other than "D" and "R" they wouldn't have put the other 1, 2 and 3 on the selector [bigwhistle]



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HPVQ4FpVlY

[rover-56]

Well, I have had to head for the scrub more than once on outback gravel to get out of the way of a Britz troopie driven way too fast on a bend.
I don't think it is just an auto/manual issue.
Cheers,
Terry
(not the one who wrote the article).[bigsmile1]

[copba]

Whist autos are probably a contributing factor, as most people only use D, R and P; the biggest issue in my opinion is people not knowing how to drive on dirt roads and going too fast.

I nearly rolled an 80 series Cruiser’ on the Cape about twenty years ago 🤫 simply going too fast, and not paying attention. Fast gravel road, hubs unlocked, too fast into a bend then over corrected and over corrected, and over corrected again fish tailing down the road. Scared the **** out of me and taught me how to drive!

[cripesamighty]

Copba, when I was up North, some friends of mine driving constant 4WD Defenders and Disco 1 & 2's called it the Toyota flick (ie not locking the hubs on dirt and getting into a bit of strife). Of course I have never done that before, and it wasn't me they were talking about, driving an old clapped out work Hilux too fast on the dirt..... [bigwhistle]

[Robmacca]

Having initially only ever driven manual 4wds all my life, then buying my 1st Auto 4wd, the biggest thing I found is with a manual, once u take your foot off the fast pedal, the car slows down. This doesn't necessarily happen with the auto as u do not slow down like in a manual and this can catch u out.... but autos are becoming the "norm" these days in ALL 4wds/cars with the manuals slowly becoming fewer and fewer...
I don't think Toyota offer a manual in their Prado/200's anymore, I assume the same applies to the current LR Vehicles ??

[donh54]

Learn. To. Drive. On. Different. Surfaces. Simples.

[bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

[JDNSW]

Whist autos are probably a contributing factor, as most people only use D, R and P; the biggest issue in my opinion is people not knowing how to drive on dirt roads and going too fast.

I nearly rolled an 80 series Cruiser’ on the Cape about twenty years ago 🤫 simply going too fast, and not paying attention. Fast gravel road, hubs unlocked, too fast into a bend then over corrected and over corrected, and over corrected again fish tailing down the road. Scared the **** out of me and taught me how to drive!

My moment like that was in my VW Kombi - 56 years ago! (somewhere in the section east of Barcaldine)

[Eevo]

Learn. To. Drive. On. Different. Surfaces. Simples.

[bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]


i agree with you but where do you expect tourists to do this learning?

[weeds]

There is the age old saying.....

’learn from your mistakes’

[DoubleChevron]

Whist autos are probably a contributing factor, as most people only use D, R and P; the biggest issue in my opinion is people not knowing how to drive on dirt roads and going too fast.

I nearly rolled an 80 series Cruiser’ on the Cape about twenty years ago 🤫 simply going too fast, and not paying attention. Fast gravel road, hubs unlocked, too fast into a bend then over corrected and over corrected, and over corrected again fish tailing down the road. Scared the **** out of me and taught me how to drive!

Its a 4wd thing... I tend to be a driver that ...er ... likes to have a little "fun" on gravel..... Every other car I've ever driven was easy to slide around corners ... the old Rangie though ... you get it loose in the @rse end and it's easily correct, but them the mass takes over throws its mass over onto the susspension on the other side of the the car ... so it overcorrects .... Its hard to straigthen it out without the mass of the body and soft suspension throwing the tail back out in the other direction. I have lots of cars with really soft suspension but have never experienced this before. If i keep the go pedal down all my other cars straighten instantly with a bit of opposite lock.

seeya,
Shane L.

[DiscoMick]

It's a normal instinct to over correct, which just makes it worse.

[DoubleChevron]

It's a normal instinct to over correct, which just makes it worse.

The mass of the body swinging over and compressing the suspension on the other side of the car that pushes the back out of line again. All my crappy old citroens have very soft suspension, but the body swinging around above the suspension has no effect on handling (you can get them very sideways with some trailing throttle ... and just punch the accelerator hard and throw on a touch of opposite lock and they pull themselves straight every time without fail).

seeya,
shane L.

[vnx205]

There is the age old saying.....

’learn from your mistakes’Much better if you can learn from other people's mistakes. :)

[trout1105]

Many of us learnt to drive long before we got our drivers licence in the paddock using vehicles where brakes and good tyres were an optional extra.
Yes we had our mishaps and the odd pileup But these were usually at low speed and no real damage was done to either the vehicle or driver.
Mustering Sheep and cattle is a huge learning curve for the novice driver and the skills picked up doing this are directly transferable to Any on or off road driving situation.
Much Much better that a few lessons with Mum/Dad/Driving instructor and jumping straight into a high powered motor car with a brand new licence [bigwhistle]

[Ean Austral]

I have driven the gibb rvr rd maybe 6 or 7 times , and the last 2 times all I have heard on the radio is people bragging about how they sat on 100km/h or faster all the way .

I somehow don't think its the international tourists that are the only ones at fault. Most of the idiots I have encountered weren't in britz or similar hire vehicles.

cheers Ean

[scarry]

The other issue these days is that many vehicles are extremely comfortable,therefore for an inexperienced driver,the speed can get away from them.

[donh54]

Much better if you can learn from other people's mistakes. :)

Yep! Experience is a great teacher - but it sure does kill a lot of students!!! [bigwhistle]

[DoubleChevron]

Many of us learnt to drive long before we got our drivers licence in the paddock using vehicles where brakes and good tyres were an optional extra.
Yes we had our mishaps and the odd pileup But these were usually at low speed and no real damage was done to either the vehicle or driver.
Mustering Sheep and cattle is a huge learning curve for the novice driver and the skills picked up doing this are directly transferable to Any on or off road driving situation.
Much Much better that a few lessons with Mum/Dad/Driving instructor and jumping straight into a high powered motor car with a brand new licence [bigwhistle]

Did you have a 2 door Marina paddock basher too ? Those things were brilliant, roll induced oversteer, terminal understeer, bump steer.... They did them all. Infact they would go from terminal understeer to terminal overstill quicker than you could blink with no warning. I worked out the only way to get consistent handling was to give the clutch a flick as you entered a corner .... this guaranteed massive oversteer :D

Such an absolutely hideous heap of **** in everyway. Everyone should learn to drive in one [bigrolf] The most fun car you will ever drive [bigsmile1]

seeya,
Shane L.