RRC Towing Limits Revisited

[gavinwibrow]

Horrors - I hope not!

Was reading the owners manual for my MY95 RRC LSE with working EAS, and it states the towing limits for braked trailers are 2,500 kgm in high range and 3,500 kgm in low range.

I hope not, but if this is correct, then I am stumped for pulling the 3,500 kgm brick that SWAMBO picked out and loves almost as much as the D2 hates towing it.

[350RRC]

My 74 & 77 2 doors can tow 4,000 kg braked. Have a genuine LR towbar on one with a plaque that states the same.

No mention of hi or lo range. Maybe ZF had the kg dropped? [thumbsupbig]

DL

[DoubleChevron]

I thought they were something silly like 11tons in low range ? They aren't the best tow vehicle IMO .... take it slow and easy if your towing 3.5tons (the slow bit will be easy [bigsmile1] )

seeya,
Shane L.

[p38arover]

I thought they were something silly like 11tons in low range ?

I seem to remember that from my '83 RRC handbook.

[DoubleChevron]

I seem to remember that from my '83 RRC handbook.

I have read something similar somewhere (possibly here).

Actually the LSE is probably a much better tow car as it will have levelling suspension that actually levels for a start... And has a longer wheelbase (the longer the wheelbase the better!) Definitely use weight distribution bars to get some of the weight back onto the front wheels. Levelling suspension just means the car is level. You want some of the extra weight carried by the rear suspension to be distributed to the front (where all of the steering and most of the braking is done).

The suspension is too soft and the rear overhang to great IMO ... so it makes towing big stuff "exciting". At least it chassis won't break like the twin cab utes everyone else seems to need :)

seeya,
Shane L.

[PhilipA]

AFAIR there are two types of towbars for RRCs.
One has a very small download allowance of AFAIR 180KG.
The other HD one for towing big loads has arms running forward to the bolt holes in the chassis about 300MM forward and a cross brace.
Regards Philip A

[gavinwibrow]

I have read something similar somewhere (possibly here).

Actually the LSE is probably a much better tow car as it will have levelling suspension that actually levels for a start... And has a longer wheelbase (the longer the wheelbase the better!) Definitely use weight distribution bars to get some of the weight back onto the front wheels. Levelling suspension just means the car is level. You want some of the extra weight carried by the rear suspension to be distributed to the front (where all of the steering and most of the braking is done).

The suspension is too soft and the rear overhang to great IMO ... so it makes towing big stuff "exciting". At least it chassis won't break like the twin cab utes everyone else seems to need :)

seeya,
Shane L.


Hi folks and thanks for comments. Hopefully 2 pages of revant pdf attached with notations.
My responses include

1 Towbar rating does not necessarily equate to vehicle capacity, even if original equipment. I have a Titan HD dual 50/70 mm towball arrangement which from memory is rated to about 6,000 kgm, obviously for the US market.

2 I tow the 3.5T brick with my D2a, but on anything other than good roads would not dream of exceeding 80 kmph (quite apart from the impact on EGTs). Otherwise, yes can be "exciting". I've held an HC licence for about 50 years, and also used to have an ex Greyhound GMC4107 that I pulled a 5T plus trailer with.

3 One of the attractions of the LSE (apart from liking them/lusting after one since they fist came out) is the longer wheelbase and EAS for towing, and yes I know the later cars all have equivalent or longer wheelbases, but they are out of my financial league having spent the kids inheritance on the brick.

4 Weight distribution bars are a NoNo according to the manual at page 95.

5 Re the start heavy towing in low range info in column 1 of page 95, I have a heavier duty ZF 4HP24 and torque converter fitted in the LSE, and always? remember the anecdotal advice to start off in 1st gear, then work through to 3rd in the D2 with 4HP22 and HD torque converter. Trying to cruise in D/Overdrive at 80 or more usually means EGTs climb through the roof towing in the Disco (not tried yet in the LSE, but given the poorer cooling capacity indications to date, would be as bad/worse). Hence my interest in a HD radiator for the LSE in another post (and related posts by others).

If anyone has good contacts at LR who would be prepared to comment, that would be great (otherwise I'll have to make a formal request).
Best outcome would be that 3.5T can be pulled at highway speeds without compromising insurance or road rules, especially now that the Police are quite properly starting to do on-road load checks.

Cheers Gavin

[Rok_Dr]

Gavin

I strongly suspect that the weights are US market only, given your notation that the manual refers to the North american market and dimensions are all imperial measurements first. Towing capacities often change depending on the legislation of the particular country.

I just had a dig through my archives and found the scan of the Australian owners manual for the MY94 Softdash Classic, I used to own and it states 3.5t

Cheers

Steve
137542

[DoubleChevron]

Hi folks and thanks for comments. Hopefully 2 pages of revant pdf attached with notations.
My responses include


4 Weight distribution bars are a NoNo according to the manual at page 95.


Cheers Gavin

Yeah I now .... I would still absolutely use them. I'd just do what I do with my Citroens (they all self level too). Pull them up as tighten as I'm comfortable with .... the car will self level again (ie: remove pressure from the rear suspension, and add it to the front)... The car is still level, but you will have transferred weight to the front.

Uncouple them as soon as you stop while keeping the engine running .............. You would put enormous forces onto everything if you let the car sink down to its bumpstops with the distribution bars still hooked up!

seeya,
Shane L..

[cripesamighty]

Check post number 15 on this link. Limited use, low range - tow weight on a RRC is 6 tons.

Towing a heavy camper - tow ball weight (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l322-range-rover/235299-towing-heavy-camper-tow-ball-weight-2.html)

[gavinwibrow]

Gavin

I strongly suspect that the weights are US market only, given your notation that the manual refers to the North american market and dimensions are all imperial measurements first. Towing capacities often change depending on the legislation of the particular country.

I just had a dig through my archives and found the scan of the Australian owners manual for the MY94 Softdash Classic, I used to own and it states 3.5t

Cheers

Steve
137542


Weird. It is supposed to be the manufacturer that determines criteria, not the destination.
cheers.

[gavinwibrow]

Check post number 15 on this link. Limited use, low range - tow weight on a RRC is 6 tons.

Towing a heavy camper - tow ball weight (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l322-range-rover/235299-towing-heavy-camper-tow-ball-weight-2.html)


Ta. Yep, I was aware the early data was 4,000 kgm. Now to confirm what is the real limit for the 95 LSE, as opposed to a 100 standard - not that there should be any difference as outlined in Steve's (Rok Dr) post.

[gavinwibrow]

Gavin

I strongly suspect that the weights are US market only, given your notation that the manual refers to the North american market and dimensions are all imperial measurements first. Towing capacities often change depending on the legislation of the particular country.

I just had a dig through my archives and found the scan of the Australian owners manual for the MY94 Softdash Classic, I used to own and it states 3.5t

Cheers

Steve
137542

Thanks Steve - as already posted - weird that an LSE or a NA destination should be any different.

[Rok_Dr]

Weird. It is supposed to be the manufacturer that determines criteria, not the destination.
cheers.

Not necessarily, state and country regulations will override the manufacturer any day. Look at our ADR’s and some of the new technologies which get delayed due to legislation being slow. The USA is particularly bad/conservative in this regard. Towing weights can also be fiddled by the manufacturers, often it’s as simple as changing springs, Engine tuning or transmission. All the dual cab manufacturers are playing this game here ATM.


Thanks Steve - as already posted - weird that an LSE or a NA destination should be any different.

Don’t over analyise it. I am 99% certain that an LSE will have the same 3.5t capacity as a std soft dash and should tow a tad better given the longer wheel base. As to the USA a small amount of googling will bring up posts from other forums where USA owners have questioned why they have lower towing capacities compared to the rest of the world. For the classic rangies.

cheers

Steve

[Rok_Dr]

PS. Just had a closer look at the handbook, I pulled the page from earlier and it referencees both the LSE and the std wheel base, so in Australia the LSE has the same towing capacity.

welcome to a PDF copy of said doc when we catch up next.

cheers

steve

[PLR]

G`day ,

in your softdash handbook look in general data and it will give 750 unbraked , 3500 over run brakes and 4000 with continuous/semi/ coupled brakes . Long and short both . Offroad - 750 .1000,1000 .

Only difference with earlier is 500 unbraked On or Off .

[PhilipA]

But in Australia the load capacity is set mainly by the permitted load on the towbar.
That is why they have a plaque.
if you exceed those values you can be booked or refused an insurance claim if it is found the download on the towbar is more than allowed.
Thus my comment on the two types of (Hayman Reese ) towbars that used to be available. I only found out when I bought one sight unseen and found it to be this enormous and heavy assembly which didn't fit with a long range tank.

And you can be sure that the caravan adjusters know all about it. I know a bloke who told me some hideous stories, like the time he walked into the wreck of the van and as he walked back it dipped to the ground.

Regards Philip A
I don't know about later ones but the 91 manual was clearly just a British manual with fuel consumptions at 75MPH etc.

[350RRC]

But in Australia the load capacity is set mainly by the permitted load on the towbar.
That is why they have a plaque.
if you exceed those values you can be booked or refused an insurance claim if it is found the download on the towbar is more than allowed.
Thus my comment on the two types of (Hayman Reese ) towbars that used to be available. I only found out when I bought one sight unseen and found it to be this enormous and heavy assembly which didn't fit with a long range tank.

And you can be sure that the caravan adjusters know all about it. I know a bloke who told me some hideous stories, like the time he walked into the wreck of the van and as he walked back it dipped to the ground.

Regards Philip A
I don't know about later ones but the 91 manual was clearly just a British manual with fuel consumptions at 75MPH etc.

Agree with you fully Philip.

I had one of those HD towbars on my 74, the thing weighed a ton. Went to scrap because the draw bar was rusted solid in the frame of the thing.

Years later I came across a genuine LR one that is very compact and has the additional bolts to the chassis like the old HD one. It's about 1/3 the weight. Plated RR / Discovery max 4,000 kg.

The original owners manual for the 74 only mentions 4,000 kg max capacity. The old Haynes I have is the only place I've seen the emergency use 6,000 kg figure...........max speed 30km/h.

cheers, DL

[gavinwibrow]

PS. Just had a closer look at the handbook, I pulled the page from earlier and it referencees both the LSE and the std wheel base, so in Australia the LSE has the same towing capacity.

welcome to a PDF copy of said doc when we catch up next.

cheers

steve

Ta. Or just email to normal addy gavinwibrow at westnet dot com dot au

[gavinwibrow]

G`day ,

in your softdash handbook look in general data and it will give 750 unbraked , 3500 over run brakes and 4000 with continuous/semi/ coupled brakes . Long and short both . Offroad - 750 .1000,1000 .

Only difference with earlier is 500 unbraked On or Off .

Cheers, but that was the whole point of this post. My documentation says something different as per my original post, which started alarm bells as my brick is almost 3.5T. With the various comments here, I'm now a lot more comfortable and just about back to square 1 (conventional AU wisdom) before I read the potentially misleading NA/USA stuff.

[gavinwibrow]

Agree with you fully Philip.

I had one of those HD towbars on my 74, the thing weighed a ton. Went to scrap because the draw bar was rusted solid in the frame of the thing.

Years later I came across a genuine LR one that is very compact and has the additional bolts to the chassis like the old HD one. It's about 1/3 the weight. Plated RR / Discovery max 4,000 kg.

The original owners manual for the 74 only mentions 4,000 kg max capacity. The old Haynes I have is the only place I've seen the emergency use 6,000 kg figure...........max speed 30km/h.

cheers, DL



Well, it does not appear to be plated/have a plaque, but I have one of the old RRC ARB? steel rear bars with alum/alloy top cover plate and a tubed receiver hole for my solid 50 mm bar and AU 3,500kgm towball.

[FisherX]

I just completed a trip of 1500km from Cairns to Gympie in my std Soft Dash at the maximum towing weight. And I tell you it was a bit of a struggle.

I was towing my Jag XJ6 that was full parts and garage stuff, the back of the Rangie was full as well and I had a loaded roof rack on to boot.

Cooling capacity was at its maximum and I had to keep an eye on the temp constantly especially when it came to hills. 100kmph was as fast as it would go, usually sat at 90 on the flat and down to 70 up the hills. I was pretty much at least at 3/4 throttle most of the time and in 3rd gear half the time. Probably the longest "Italian tune" up of all time.

Fuel economy was TERRIBLE. I only got 260km out of a tank of "Puma" fuel before the light was on and would usually get around 310km from Caltex or the others. So that is between 25 and 31 liters per 100.

I've got the factory tow bar that states 4000kg max and 150kg ball weight (which seams a bit light) but the book says a towing limit of 3500kg braked.

[350RRC]

Well, it does not appear to be plated/have a plaque, but I have one of the old RRC ARB? steel rear bars with alum/alloy top cover plate and a tubed receiver hole for my solid 50 mm bar and AU 3,500kgm towball.

Just pulled one of those off my other POS. Uses the same mounting config as the old HD towbar and the new LR one, i.e. bolts to chassis rails as well as rear crossmember. Up for sale soon complete with fold out wheel carrier AND the angled bar.

Bloody heavy!

Call ARB to find out what it's rated at. Will have been engineered I imagine.

DL

[Rok_Dr]

Well, it does not appear to be plated/have a plaque, but I have one of the old RRC ARB? steel rear bars with alum/alloy top cover plate and a tubed receiver hole for my solid 50 mm bar and AU 3,500kgm towball.

I seem to recall that the ARB rear bar has an angled tow hitch receiver hole, requiring a special matching angled hitch and it was rated to a lower weight (2,800kg??). I would give ARB a call to confirm all this.

Cheers

Steve

[PhilipA]

Just the reference to override brakes indicates that the manual is referring to the UK as most caravans over there have override brakes.
But you do have to do a specific licence test to tow a van /trailer over a certain weight.
A complete guide to towing a caravan | RAC Drive (https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/towing-a-caravan/)

Regards Philip A

[PLR]

We have a hayman reese on a softdash and a hayman reese on a preceding hard dash

Both have a maximum 4000 kg stamped on their plates .

Both have stamped , for towing capacity details refer to owners manual .

Owners manual details were given prior .

Our 85 has a factory type but no plate and i take its maximum as 3500kg as with the others from the book.